Tonight on Close Up ` is the CTV Building the tip of the unsafe-building iceberg? The man who warned the government about construction standards. One parent's warning over the dairy lollies that left her kids' tongues bleeding. And taking to the waters of the Waikato to support depression awareness. Due to the live nature of Close Up, captions for some items may be incomplete. ONE News captions by Richard Edmunds and Angela Alice. Close Up captions by Alecia Bland and Hugo Snell. Do you know how safe the building is that you're in right now? Even if the paperwork says so, can you really rely on it? The fact that a building can be less safe than what it seems became tragically obvious during the Building and Housing departments' investigation into Christchurch's CTV Building. SOMBRE MUSIC The collapse would have started with the failure of a column. The columns were weak. They were brittle and not ductile. There was very low confinement steel in those columns. As a result, they had less movement capability. The NZ standard allowed the use of non-ductile columns provided certain conditions were met. These conditions were, in the opinion of the investigating team, not met for the CTV Building. But should it have taken a tragedy to make us aware? For years John Scarry has been telling anyone who will listen about the appalling standards in our construction industry. He told Parliament. He told ministers. He even told the Prime Minister, but got nowhere. And he says the rebuild in Christchurch is following the same pattern. John Scarry joins me now along with the man who has the power to do something about it, Building and Housing Minister Maurice Williamson. SO NO ONE LISTENED TO YOU? UM, THEY LISTENED ENOUGH TO WRITE WORTHLESS REPORTS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO FUNDAMENTAL NECESSAY REFORM. WHAT YOU'RE WARNING ABOUT IS PROBLEMS IN THE INDUSRTY? YES, IT IS. THE WORST EXAMPLES WERE SOME BLUECHIP BUILDINGS WITH SEISMIS RISKS THE VECTOR ARENA ALMOST COLLAPSED. DOES HE KNOW HWAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT? OH, YES, AND I DO THINK HE HAS MADE SOME GOOD POINTS IN HIS OPENING LETTER OF 2002. AND I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE SINCE. I HAVE 18 KEY POINTS ` THERE'S BEEN CHANGES TO CODES OF PRACTICE. ARE THESE SIGNIFICANT OR JUST TICKING BOXES? JOHN MAKES LOTS OF GOOD POINTS. OH, I THINK THEY ARE. THE CHANGES ABOUT DUCTIBILITY AND STANDARDS,... THE PROBLEM IS HE HAS TO BRING HIS COLLEAGUES WITH HIM. THE ENGINGEERING INSTISTUTE OF 10,000 DISAGREES SOMETIMES. THE BEST STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN NZ, WHO COULD BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD, AGREES WITH ME. THE KEY THING IS THE ENGINEEEINRG. STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING HAS TO HAVE THE POWER, IT HAS TO HAVE THE POWER. WHY DOESN'T HE HAVE HIS COLLEAGUES ON-SIDE? THEY KEEP SAYING HE'S WRONG. THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE IS WRONG, THOLUGH. LET ME GO THROUGH THEM - VARIOUS ASSOCIATIONS. IPENZ HAS 10,000 MEMBERS AND PEOPLE IN THERE DON'T AGREE. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THEM. THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THERE WITH LETTERS LONGER THAN THE ALPHABET. MOST OF THE PEOPLE AGREEING WITH THEM HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. SO PEOPLE INVOLVED IN SHUTTING YOU DOWN ARE ON THIS LIST? I TAKE GREAT ISSUE AT THAT. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN POINT TO PEOPLE BENEFITING FROM BUILDING CRAP BUILDINGS. THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID. THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE A SIGN ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING SHOWING ITS STATUS OF SAFETY. I JUST SAID THAT - EXPLORING MAKING THAT MANDATORY. IT WASN'T DONE TO ANY CODE. THAT'S WHAT THE PANEL FOUND OUT. WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT WHETHER IT WAS BUILT TO CODE TO START WITH. DO YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE REBUILD? OK, SO WHAT DO YOU WANT THE MINISTER TO DO? THE FIRST BUILDING OF THE REBUILD FAILED IN AN AFTERSHOCK. I WANT HIM TO RESIGN. HE'S DONE NOTHING. JOHN SCARRY WILL GET HIS WAY IF HE CAN GET THOSE GROUPS TOGETHER AND GET A CONSENSUS FROM THE ENGINEERS. WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN. I CAN'T TAKE ONLY ONE PERSON'S VIEW. WHEN I GOT A PRESENTATION FROM THEM, I THOUGHT PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN JAIL. I THOUGHT THAT SOME OF IT SOUNDED LIKE SOME PEOPLE SHOULD BE JAIL, AT FIRST. YOU WILL CONTINUE YOUR CAMPAIGN? YES. So, what do you reckon? You can have your say by going to our webpage, Coming up ` the lollies that have left children with bleeding mouths. It started, literally, burning my tongue. And raising awareness of depression in a very different way. There's lots of things you can complain about when it comes to lollies. Yes, they can make you fat or rot your teeth, but making your tongue bleed?! We're not talking a life or death situation here, but for Mum Leanne, finding your kids with bleeding tongues is a bit of a worry and more so when no one else seems to take it seriously. Gill Higgins did, though. We all know kids love lollies. They're yum. But some, it seems, can be dangerous, causing tiny cuts. At first we thought it was just the flavouring and the colour. But then we discovered it was actually blood, cos I could taste it, and I was starting to get really worried. You're absolutely certain it was actual blood rather than`? Yeah. ...than just the colour? I could taste a foul taste. Madi is a sour candy connoisseur, but even to her, the Cosmic RollerBall proved a shock. It started burning, literally burning my tongue like I had set it on fire or something, cos it really hurt. And it wasn't just you that tried it? There was a little 3-year-old, my mum's friend's daughter, she just said, 'Blood, blood.' And that's pretty much all she said. It was horrible. Madi's sister, Brooke (15), was with them. I just thought it was the juice of it. I just thought that it's normal. Then I looked closer, and there was blood coming out. We took a photo, just so we could show people what actually happened. It's Madi. So this is what their mum saw after picking the girls up. So this is what their mum saw after picking the girls up. I saw a whole lot of little cuts on Madi's tongue. But you weren't worried enough to take them to the doctor? No. No, there was no breathing problem, but, then, she's a strong girl. She gave Madi a mouthwash. In hindsight, it was the worst thing I could. She was crying because her tongue was burnt, and everything was highly sore and sensitive. They came back to the dairy to explain what had happened. The owner here said he'd never had any complaints before, but he gave them their money back, and he took the products off the shelves. It seems there have been similar complaints elsewhere, though. A quick look on the web reveals discussions about sour candies causing bleeding and pain. They make my tongue bleed. Madi's mum know it's not a matter of life and death, but she thinks the labelling should include a warning. We rang the distributor in Australia, and they didn't return our calls, although they said they would get back to us. I contacted various health departments, and the last thing I know there was a guy from MAF looking into it. He hasn't got back to me. They tried the NZ agent too. I got through to them the first time, and each time since, I've just left messages, and I've never had my calls returned. Would you try it again?. No. (CHUCKLES) I wouldn't risk it, not at all. Why do you want to make this publically known? Because there's gonna be a child that's gonna have some really bad reaction to it, and if I did nothing and knew about this, then I'd feel terrible. We've an update about MAF's response today. Leanne contacted us and said MAF, perhaps spurred on by our own calls, sent a food officer round to the home today to take a statement and the offending sweets. They are now investigating. No matter how perfect your life seems, fate can always test you. And nothing more so than a sick defenceless baby. Just ask Abby and Matt Cleaver. Their fourth and much-loved baby, Vann, has a chromosome disorder so rare doctors can't even tell them what it is. Hugely confronting for these parents, but they want their story told not because they want pity or help. Quite the opposite. They want to be able to help other families who find themselves in challenging circumstances. Matt McLean with the Cleavers. POIGNANT PIANO MUSIC We thought he was going to be our healthy little boy. He was born not meant to survive. We were taking hour by hour. Like, we couldn't even take a day. Six months old and with a cheeky grin, little Vann Cleaver is the apple of his parents' eye. Very lucky, aren't you? You're a very lucky boy. So it's hard to imagine this baby boy spent the first two months of his life in hospital struggling to survive. To be honest, I actually didn't even think about it when he was born. I was so overwhelmed with happiness and joy. I mean, we saw that he had slightly funny, different ears. But those funny ears were just the beginning. It was sort of unknown for so long. We... He was just vomiting up anything they could get down him with a tube, even. Flown to Waikato Hospital in a rush, Vann's condition worsened. He was, sort of, on his bed and he was just vomiting up his stomach contents. I remember actually thinking, 'This is it.' Yeah, it wasn't nice, and he was just wired up like anything ` so many cords. We couldn't even hold him. Those two months in hospital delivered blow after blow for the Cleavers. He has Hirschsprung's disease through his whole large bowel, which means the cells in his bowel don't work, which is why he was vomiting up poo. We know he's got three chromosome disorders on his 22-chromosome. There's a hole in his heart. His kidney's slightly enlarged. He's profoundly deaf, so he can't hear anything. He's profoundly deaf, so he can't hear anything. Like, you can make the loudest noise, and nothing. Sight's impaired. Vann's condition is so rare, doctor's haven't found any other cases like his in the world. Because his is a relatively unique rearrangement, we can't look and see that there are, you know, 1000 cases around the world, and this is what they've all got. And that's one of the features where you get these really complex large changes in genetic material ` is that there often aren't large numbers of children with those around the world. You might be surprised to learn this patient mum is only 23, so I asked, 'How does someone so young, with four children under five, 'cope with the enormity of what they're facing?' I just carry on and keep going. That's all I can do. But, yeah, to have him born with so many issues, but I can't do nothing but just stand by Vann. But this is a challenge the entire family are facing head-on. The fact that Vann's profoundly deaf means his parents and siblings are learning sign language. Daddy. Mummy. Bottle. Bottle. A task made harder by the fact that they don't know just how bad his eyesight is. So with all of that, this family's strength, their positivity, is amazing. I don't look at our life and think it's sad or bad or poor us. I feel lucky to have Vann because he just teaches us so much. But Matt and Abbey are honest ` it's not all roses. Having a boy, you just want your kids to be beating each other up, you know, to some degree. But, yeah, it's just hard to watch. I find sometimes I just stare at him for half an hour and still just can't believe it, you know. I still to this day can't believe that it's happen to us. So for them, Vann's small achievements are huge. Just him responding to us. Like, when he smiles, it's like he's saying, 'Everything's gonna be OK.' When he smiles, he's... Yeah. The Cleavers wanted to talk to us not for pity. They wanted to offer support for families in similar situations. And each mother learns from their child ` patience, understanding. They're incredible children. And I think if people have more understanding of why they are the way that they are, they would accept them a bit more. But this journey they're on is complicated. Have they told you anything about what you can expect? Nothing. No one can tell us anything. It's all very unknown. They know those answers will come with time, but for now, things are OK. I don't really want him to be a rocket scientist now. I'd just be happy if we can go fishing on the boat in summer and catch a fish together. When I look at Vann, I just hope that he will walk, that he will be able to communicate in some way ` whether it be sign language, talk... You know. And just that he will be happy. And Abbey's talking further about this issue on her Facebook page. That's facebook.com/babyvann Coming up ` we revisit the man lilo-ing the length of the Waikato River to raise awareness of depression. I wanna help other Kiwi males go, 'I can ask for help. It's OK.' Is travelling down the Waikato on a lilo the secret to happiness? I don't know if it would be the top of my list, but it's worked wonders for depression sufferer Jimi. We first brought you Jimi's story back in November when he'd been told by his doctor to get outside more. He certainly took that advice on board. I've always been an adventurer ever since I was a little kid. I've never really done anything that anyone's ever gone, 'Wow, you're an inspiration to me' before. And people keep saying I'm an inspiration, and you're, like, 'OK. Sure.' Three, two, one! SPLASH! It's a seemingly silly but perhaps clever way of tackling a serious subject ` If I had just shouted from the rooftops, 'People should be more aware of depression,' do any media care? lilo-ing the length of our longest river. A little bit of chafing ` not where you're thinking. I've got a bit under the arms and all that sort of carry-on. 425 K's from Taupo to Port Waikato, all in the name of depression awareness. I wanna help other Kiwi males go, 'I can ask for help. It's OK.' So, day four ` how are the arms? Arms are a little bit sore. The neck is a little bit sore. The body's hurting, but the ego's growing. Everyone wants a piece of Jimi. We're up to almost 9000 people on Facebook, which is crazy. I've been on probably every major radio station in NZ. He's even managed to get the backing of the Mental Health Foundation and the National Depression Initiative. They're the guys who bring us those JK ads. I needed to understand that I was out of balance. < A grown man floating down the Waikato river on a Warehouse lilo ` < why would you want to attach your name to that? I'm very supportive of the message that he's trying to get out there, and he's having such success because what he's doing is unusual. Have you ever thought, 'Bugger the awareness. There are heaps of other places I'd rather be right now'? Well, I've never thought, 'Bugger the awareness.' There is no other place I would rather be right now. I'd swap you for a pretty girl. (CHUCKLES) Close Up first introduced you to branding-and-design man Jimi Hunt back in November, in training for his epic mission. Any idea just how ridiculous you might look at the minute? I have a good history of looking ridiculous, so it doesn't really bother me. Very simply, Jimi didn't want others to make the same mistake as him. At just 31, depression cost him his marriage. If I had asked for help, I might not have lost my wife. Is that gutting, knowing that? > Of course it is. To think that you could have helped yourself, but you didn't... and you just let it get worse and worse and worse. Jimi took a pounding for two years before finding the help he needed. I'd just end up crying. Like, crying all day in bed and not leaving the house. JIMI HENDRIX' 'ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER' But some basic lifestyle changes enabled him to quickly turn his frown upside down and get the old up-for-anything Jimi back. Whoo-hoo! SPLASH! It's just a choice, and I choose now to be awesome and go out and just do awesome things. < I've gotta say Jimi's doing a pretty good job. < How much money do you think this sort of advertising would cost you? That's really completely out of my domain, but far more than the health system can afford, so this is a fabulous opportunity to get in behind him and talk about depression. While we're all talking, Jimi's paddling and doing what he wished he'd done sooner ` putting his hand up. Hey, Jimi, I told you we'd turn up. I'm here now, and I could do with some help. I'll give you a tow. Thank you very much! Well, the public have just been overwhelmingly positive. You know, people offering accommodation every night. I haven't really had to knock on anyone's door. People have found me. Are you worried at all about where you might be sleeping tonight? Well, tonight I think we're gonna get to Mangakino. I hear there's a pub there. But Mangakino's a tough nut to crack. No, we're pretty careful around here, you know? Yeah, fair enough too. Strange outside people coming in. Anyone that's going to go down the river on a bloody lilo's not staying at my place. ALL LAUGH In a case of what goes around comes around, while most people are helping Jimi,... Yeah, yeah, heard about what you're doing, and so we can put you up for the night. ...he's also helping others. And for them to then say it's your adventure that is the catalyst for them to go and get some help or try and do something to fix themselves, like, it absolutely touches you. And that all makes this tough two-week mission very worthwhile. How good will it be hitting Port Waikato and nailing this thing? I've imagined it and I've dreamed it in my head, and I just look forward to seeing that black-sand sunset and some of my good friends there to met me and I just look forward to seeing that black-sand sunset and some of my good friends there to meet me and` and just... celebrate. Time for a bit of feedback, and the building standards issue has your riled up. Mike says,... Wayne writes,... Tim says,... And that's NZ Close Up. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air.