Tonight on Close Up ` what's going on inside your toddler's head? < Hi. Hi. When do they consider the ultimate question, 'Who am I?' They're listening, they're paying attention, they're absorbing. Due to the live nature of Close Up, captions for some items may be incomplete. ONE News captions by Lauren Strain and Angela Alice. Close Up captions by Faith Hamblyn and Glenna Casalme. If you think 'Who am I?' is a bit deep for a toddler, consider this ` do we really know anything about what they're thinking? That's about to change with revealing research from Auckland University. Here's Michael Holland MAN: Who's that? They're surely the most endearing of scientific test subjects. You just look into those big eyes that are just glistening with excitement and energy and activity. They are listening, they are paying attention, they are absorbing. These children's minds are very open. And you are probing behind those big eyes? We are trying to see what's behind those eyes and what's in that mind. MAN: Wow. Trying to establish exactly when toddlers become aware of themselves. 'Hey. That's actually me.' Recognising their physical presence, their human form. Learning about themselves and who they are in the world. In essence, the emergence of self-awareness. Good job! And with that, say these researchers at Auckland University's Early Learning Lab, comes the development of who we are as unique individuals. The importance of self-awareness as a full-fledged understanding of self forms the foundations of much of our social interactions with other people, so becoming aware of ourself is fundamental in developing your identity, self concept. The concept of self-awareness being tested in dozens of youngsters aged between 2 and 3 by bringing them face... MAN: Do you see someone? ...with themselves. Hello! < To recognise yourself in the mirror is the beginning of what? It's the beginning of understanding that you actually exist as an entity in the world. So they may have an internal idea of what they look like, but can they recognise that in an external setting? And with self-awareness comes the sense of what children consider their 'normal' appearance to be. To test that, researchers discreetly place a sticker on the child's head... That's something that's happened to them that they didn't expect to happen. ...and wait for a reaction. He sees the sticker and he reaches out and touches the sticker on his head. This is a clear indication of the child understanding the image represents himself, and he achieves self-recognition. Expanding on that, children are then shown themselves in a distorted mirror. The more perceptive ones quickly seeing past the distortions. Do you see that sticker? Some then going on to make themselves out on computer camera image with their faces pixelated. She's moving her head back and forth and seeing does the image move as well in the same way? So that helps her know that's actually her image that she's looking at. We're playing around with the cues that they would use in order to make that match between the image and themselves, and by playing around with those cues, it gives us an idea of what types of techniques they are using in order to actually make that connection. An established sense of identity then leading children to exhibit the early signs of self-control. Acting right or wrong, we can sense how people are viewing our actions and adjust them accordingly. There's a connection between being self-conscious or being very aware of yourself and being able to follow the rules. That link forming the basis of the study's most intriguing test ` the children being tempted with a toy, but being told not to open it, while the instructor leaves the room. On the other side of the table, a mirror, which many of the children use to monitor themselves to essentially self-check their behaviour. That presence of the mirror is supposed to activate that awareness of self as someone who pays attention to rules. This kid really wants to see what's inside. He knows it's something special, but then he knows that he shouldn't look inside, so he uses the mirror. He looks into the mirror, and he sees himself in the mirror, and by focusing on himself, he is able to exhibit self control. So there he's picked up, he's transgressed a bit, but he doesn't quite open it. She's looking into the mirror, checking herself, and that's helping her maintain self-control, but she's also gonna to do something quite interesting here as well. Don't touch. Don't touch. She tells her mum that they shouldn't be touching the toy. So she's talking the language that she's heard from the instructor, and she's internalising it, and she's now repeating it again, And that helps reinforce for herself the self-control that she needs to maintain. It's a graphic early test of children being able to understand conventions and norms that are being applied to them, standards that are being given to them, and them rationalising and deciding how they want to behave against those. This research has told us that you can't underestimate the first two years of a child's life. All the behaviours that we do on a daily basis are set in place quite early in development. Shaping young minds... > Yep. ...from 2 years old onwards? > Well, we are not doing the shaping, but we are hoping to provide the information to parents and teachers, so they can do the shaping. While this is new research, at Auckland University, Professor Alison Gopnik has spent years at Berkeley exploring this area of developmental psychology. She joins me now. WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL THIS? ARE THEIR MINDS WORTH STUDYING? OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS, WE'VE DISCOVERED THAT EVEN THE YOUNGEST KNOW MORE THAN WE THINK THEY KNOW 30 YEARS AGO WE THOUGHT BABIES COULDN'T UNDERSTAND CAUSE AND EFFECT. If you want to hear more from Alison, she's giving two free public lectures next week at Auckland University. ARE BABIES KNOW MORALS? WHAT WE'VE DISCOVERD IS EVEN 15-MONTH OLDS WILL HELP SOMEONE GET WHAT THEY WANT. IS THIS RESEARCH TO HELP THEM OR US? IF THEY SEE SOMEONE THROW A PEN, THEY KNOW THE PEN ISN'T WANTED. 'HOW DO WE COME TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD AROUND US?' HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE AROUND US? THE BIG QUESTION, 'WHO AM I?' WHEN DOES A TODDLER KNOW THAT? SOME OF THOSE ASPECTS ARE PRETTY MUCH IN PLACE VERY EARLY. EVEN 18-MONTH-OLDS RECOGNISE THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR. KNOWING THINGS LIKE I'M NOT THE SAME AS I AM IN FIVE YEARS YOUR NECKLACE IS CATCHING THE MIKE. PARENTS ARE OBSESSED WITH THEIR KIDS. THEY DO THINGS THAT THEY THINK WILL DEVELOP THEIR KIDS' MIND THE THINGS THAT ENABLE CHILDREN TO LEARN IS LIKE SPONTANEOUS PLAY. THE WAY THAT THEY PICK UP A TOY AND EXPLORE AND PLAY WITH THEM THAT'S WHERE LEARNING IS GOING ON THE THINGS THAT ARE EVERYDAY PLAY IS WHERE THE LEARNING IS GOING ON. DO THEY HAVE MEMORIES OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THAT AGE? WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT EVEN VERY YOUNG BABIES KNOW WHAT HAPPENED EARLIER. THERE IS AN INTERESTING PUZZLE THAT AS GROWN UPS, WE DON'T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO US BACK THEN THAT SUGGESTS THE BABY HAS A DIFFERENT CONSCIOUSNESS THAN WE DO. THEY STRUGGLE WITH ISSUES LIKE RIGHT AND WRONG AND THAT'S FASCINATING TO WATCH I THINK WE HAVE MORE AND MORE EVIDENCE THAT EVEN 2.5 YEAR OLDS ` EVEN IF YOU ASK 2 AND A HALF YEAR OLDS SUPPOSE EVERYONE DECIDED YOU COULD HIT ANOTHER CHILD, IS IT OK? THEY WOULD SAY IF IT'S OK TO THROW YOUR CLOTHES AROUND THAT WOULD BE OK ARE WE BEING MANIPULATED? ARE THEY PLAYING US? BUT TO HIT SOMEONE IS NOT OK IF YOU THINK OF THEM BEING LITTLE PSYCOLOGISTS, WE ARE THE LAB RATS. I THINK WE CAN UNDERSTAND CHILDREN IF WE THINK OF THEM AS LITTLE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE DOING EXPERIMENTS DOING EXPERIMENTS, TRYING TO WORK OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MINDS OF OTHERS AROUND. WILL SHE RETAIN A EMORY OF WHO HER PAETNHS WERE? IN THE MADELEINE MCCAIN CASE, WILL SHE RETAIN THE MEMORY OF WHO HER PARENTS ARE? WHERE DOES THIS GO? IS THERE NO LIMIT FROM WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM THEM? I'D SAY EVERY TWO WEEKS WE HAVE SOME NEW DISCOVERY. WE'VE LEARNED THAT THEY UNDERSTAND PROBABILITY, STATISTICS AND NUMBERS THE AMAZING THING IS THEY DO THIS LEARNING BY HAVING PEOPLE LET THEM EXPLORE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TWO MORE LECTURES FROM HER AT THE UNIVERSITY. WE'LL PUT THAT IN THE WEBSITE And if you're a parent and would like your child to be part of the early learning lab, head to their website http://www.earlylearning.ac.nz/ In the Aussie press, it's been compared to the break-up of the Beatles. Yes, it's that big, even though it's about four grown men in skivvies who became multimillionaires entertaining pre-schoolers. We're talking Wiggles. Three of the colour-coded quartet are calling it a day after 21 years together. And shock horror, one of their replacements is a not a man. How will this go down at the creche? I got through to Wiggle HQ in Melbourne a little earlier and wondered why change the formula now. Well, Murray and myself thought it was time to spend a bit more time at home. For myself, I had a bit of a heart scare last year, which set the idea through my head, and it seems so fitting that` that it was with Greg that did our` our celebration last tour. Look, I'll tell you what was said on Australian television ` that your announcement was the same as George, John and Ringo leaving the Beatles. ALL CHUCKLE Well, that's flattering. I think it's probably overstating it a little bit. But certainly, we've made a fairly big impact here in Australia and round parts of the world. And, you know, after 21 years, we've become part of the furniture for a lot of people, so I guess it's a big deal for that reason. Anthony it's a massive impact, not only on the public, but on your pockets ` you're the highest-earning entertainers in Australia ` how is that gonna work with the new line-up? How does what work? How do you divvy up the spoils? LAUGHTER Well, you know, it's early days yet. We're not really talking about spoils; all we're talking about is the good times ahead and touring the world. And, you know, it's like a circus on tour, so Emma, Lachy and Simon are joining me. I'm gonna keep the legacy going of 21 years with these guys. Anthony, you must be getting a bit nervous. I see Emma's already taken over the driver's seat. LAUGHTER She's a good driver. She's a really good driver, and people are saying, 'Oh, you know, you've been there the longest. 'You're going to be running the show.' I tell you, once you get to know Emma, you'll know she's running the show. She's the driver. Emma, how excited are you? The first ever woman Wiggle. I've very excited, because I never thought that I would be a Wiggle. I just thought that I would be Dorothy and I would be dancing with the guys for years to come, so it's a great privilege, and we're already touring with The Wiggles, obviously ` Simon and Lachy and I ` so it's been a great time. I don't want this to go down the wrong way but does it really matter who's wearing that skivvy? Well, it does matter who's wearing the skivvy. The person wearing the skivvy has to communicate with children. They've got to have a heart and care for children and also have a great sense of humour and be able to sing, dance and do all those sorts of things. But in a way you're right, because not like a rock group where if Mick Jagger left the Rolling Stones it'd be all over, we still have, besides the human content, we have Dorothy the dinosaur, Wags the dog, Captain Feathersword and Henry the octopus, and in a lot of cases, they're far more popular than any of us, except for Jeff. Jeff is... LAUGHTER He's the number one. Jeff, Emma's broken one barrier for the Wiggles. When are you going to have your first Kiwi in the line-up? ALL CHUCKLE Oh. That's, uh... How old are you? ALL LAUGH You offered me the job last time you were here. ALL LAUGH Do you remember the time in NZ? You got` a couple of times, people thought you were a Maori, and then they came up, gave him a couple of hugs and things. Yeah. I have passed as Maori. (CHUCKLES) And exciting day, but is it a bit sad, especially for Greg, Murray and yourself? Yes, it is` it is sad and yet, um, I feel happy that it's going to be continued with our new Wiggles. Are they going to be as good as you guys? I think they're gonna be better. ALL LAUGH And that's what makes you great ` because you're down-to-earth. And that's what we're gonna be ` humble, down-to-earth. Enjoy the shows. (CHUCKLES) Are you surprised by the, you know, Beatles-break-up type reaction? Yeah. Oh, look. I think for some people, it's gonna be a bit of a change for them but I think the thing that is comforting to` or should be comforting to a lot of people is the fact that our good friend here Anthony is carrying on in the blue skivvy. Um, Jeff, Murray and myself will be still involved in song writing and creative aspects behind the scenes, so it's not like the three of us are stepping away totally. So there'll be a lot of continuity there, and plus, we've chosen three great Wiggles to take over in the skivvies, and we're really confident about their abilities and their abilities to connect with our audience. And, Murray, do you have to hand in all your coloured skivvies? Are you forbidden from ever wearing red again? Well, I'll probably keep one or two souvenirs, but I don't really wear red skivvies much in normal life. I'm relieved to hear that. Thank you very much. Congratulations to the new Wiggles, and enjoy your time off, for those who are going. ALL: Thanks, Mark. Coming up next ` meet someone who literally sings for his supper. Gideon Irving is a walking, talking or should I say singing, one-man band with a bike and trailer. The New Yorker has been here since June, peddling from town to town, performing in peoples lounges. It's what he calls stovetop folk. Alexi O'Brien caught him on the road. It was fairly tricky figuring out in the beginning how things fit together. For Gideon Irving, packing up's an almost daily ritual. A travelling musician on his first tour, there's no entourage; the only thing following him around NZ is this trailer. How much does this all weigh? About 75-80kgs. With my bags too, so... That's heavy! Yeah, it's kinda like having your friend asleep on the back of your bike all day. Will you thank Leigh again for me, eh? And yeah, if you guys ever make it to the States, look me up, for sure. # Cos I've been everywhere, man. I've been everywhere, man. # I've crossed the deserts bare, man. I've breathed the mountain air, man... Well, I started out in Addington with Sylvia and Peter, then Ashburton, then Cat and Dick's place in Dunedin. He's performed from rooftops and woolsheds to audiences of five or 35, picking NZ for his tour because of our size. It being such a small country, people could connect me to their neighbours and friends down the line. And that's happened? Yeah, that's gotten me pretty much 70 shows out of the 75. And so, then, why biking? Because doesn't that just make everything harder? Yes, it does, but I think that also it makes some things easier. I'd be more inclined to host someone who was biking. And Kiwis have been good to you? Yeah, incredible. Incredible. # I've been everywhere, man... Then I went to Te Anau with Rosie and Alastair and then over to Mossburn. Had a hell of a night getting there. I didn't really do any training for this trip, against my better judgement. So you don't know how to change a tyre, you didn't do any training ` what were you doing? I know how to change a tyre now. I didn't know that until two weeks ago, when I got my first flat. # I've been everywhere, man... Paekakariki, Paraparaumu... # Across the deserts bare, man... So how do you know where to go? One great thing I love about NZ is usually there's just one road to go to where I'm going. But sometimes it gets a little bit more complicated, and I have my own GPS. # How you been? I've been everywhere, man... Heidi and Laurie up in Mt Maunganui and Steve and Jenny in Whakatane, and up the Coromandel. # I've been here, there, everywhere. I've been everywhere. # Feedback now, and on the toddler project, Michelle emails about her own baby experience. Radi says... Katrin says. THE WIGGLES MADE 45M LAST YEAR THEY'RE THE BIGGEST AUSTRALIAN ACT 23M DVDs THEY'VE PUT UP SO WHAT'S A GROWN MAN DOING IN A SKIVVY? THERE'S YOUR ANSWER KYLIE MINOGUE WAS AN HONORARY PINK WIGGLE And that's NZ Close Up this week. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air. Copyright TVNZ Access Services 2012