Tonight on Close Up ` fighting drug addiction with another drug... I really do believe it did save my life. ...so dangerous, it's been banned. Why haven't people done research on this? Due to the live nature of Close Up, captions for some items may be incomplete. ONE News captions by Lauren Strain and Richard Edmunds. Close Up captions by Sam Bradford and Desney Thorogood. A new drug trial is set to begin in NZ for a drug called ibogaine. The drug is so controversial it's banned in some countries. It is so powerful that one hit is all that's needed to cure you of methadone addiction for years. So do we need it? Do we want it? What's the catch? Renee Graham investigates. It's a drug that's been linked with 19 deaths worldwide. It's illegal in the USA, Australia and France ` and is available here. I really do believe it did save my life. Ibogaine will cost you about $800 a trip, and what a trip; a hallucinogenic journey up to three days long. The idea that, 'Oh, no, it's too risky to do it', I think you have to balance that with 'what risks are these people prepared to take anyway?' The first part of it was just feeling, like, blackness, and almost like having these visions of the outer atmosphere, like, going out into the stars. It was like watching a movie of your own life. I was getting these visions of these things that happened in my life but I didn't have that gut-wrenching, like, feeling that went with it. It was like I was watching someone else's life and going, 'Oh, wow, it's really sad that that happened', and just had empathy for myself rather than the guilt and shame that I'd been, like, smacking myself round the head with. Tanea Paterson is a recovered methadone addict. She spiralled into drug addiction after injuries in a car crash. Almost six years ago, she took one ibogaine trip and she hasn't touched methadone since. I felt great. I felt just` I didn't have much energy at all, it was, like, wearing a concrete suit. There's different things with` your senses are back and you're alive again, you know. So you walked out and quite literally never wanted to touch methadone again? No, I don't have any desire to touch methadone. I really don't. Tanea tried to come off morphine and then the methadone programme for around ten years. I cringe to think about what` where I'd be, what I'd be doing now. What my kids would be going through. In underground addiction treatment circles, some doctors, researchers and addicts claim ibogaine is a wonder drug. As little as one dose can temporarily eradicate cravings and reduce withdrawal symptoms by about 80%. They say it provides a pain-free detox. The potential is really quite significant, based on this sort of anecdotal evidence that we have. CHANTING Ibogaine comes from an African plant and has been used for centuries in medicine and ritual. But little is known about how it works. Two years ago the government safety authority Medsafe classified it as prescription-only, but didn't approve its use or evaluate its safety. There's certainly a set of risks around cardiac function, also checking for liver function, whether a person has a history of seizures. A nationwide observational trial aims to find out more. 'Have you experienced hallucinations...' Medical researcher Geoff Noller will follow the progress of up to 30 methadone or opioid addicts for 12 months after they've taken ibogaine. You have to go beyond anecdotal evidence. The potential pay-off for addicts may be getting clean, but ibogaine is no easy high. Users report difficulty walking, a reduced heart rate, body tremors, nausea, and vomiting. You need someone with you. GPs are generally fairly nervous about ibogaine, understandably so. It's still the unknown. Tanea says ibogaine is not a silver bullet, but a kick-start for addiction recovery. She says it's unlikely people will get hooked, because you don't crave it and can barely walk. I was really scared, and I was like, holding on. Tanea's now a qualified addiction counsellor. She's one of two ibogaine providers here, guiding addicts through their treatment and after-care. She's drawn up guidelines and safety checks, including physical and psychological tests. Once I've figured out their sensitivity and I've decided on the dosage that I'm gonna give them for that time period, then I'll lie them down on the bed, generally on their side probably because of vomiting and nausea, so hopefully safer. The room is completely quiet, and I'll light a candle. Quite often people's body temperatures are a bit funny at that stage with the withdrawal, so just keeping them warm. Dr Gavin Cape works with addicts. He says ibogaine's got potential, and he knows about 20 addicts who have taken it. I'd say out of that, just two people who didn't do so well. But the rest, seemingly, did very well. How does it compare to other treatments like methadone? Whilst we have methadone treatment and there is another one called butamorphine, they are successful, but then once you're on that it is` proves difficult to come off. And ibogaine has that potential to enable people to come off opioids with just one dose. This study is just the first step in a long process. Geoff Noller plans to publish his findings, and, if the evidence stacks up, apply for a clinical trial. People might say, 'Well, gee, why hasn't there been research on this?' 'Why haven't people done research on this?' One of the issues there is that ibogaine is a naturally occurring product, and you can't patent a naturally occurring product. Therefore, the big pharmaceutical companies have no interest in it. Joining me now is Dr Susanna Galea, clinical director at CADS ` Community Alcohol and Drug Services. THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR THIS DRUG. WHEN THERE IS S A TRIAL THERE WILL BE ETHICAL CONDITIONS. DO YOU BELIEVE IT'S A WONDER DRUG? WE DON'T BUY INTO IT AT THIS STAGE. WE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH. THERE ARE ADVERSE EFFECTS THAT ARE SERIOUS. FOR MANY WATCHING, DRUG ADDICTION IS REMOVED FROM THEIR LIVES. WHY CARE? I THINK YOU JUST NEEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES. DRUG ADDICTION IS A PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY, A LOT OF CLIENTS WITH OPIATE PROBLEMS ALSO HAVE ALCOHOL PROBLEMS. WE NEED A COMMUNITY APPROACH. WE ARE ALL VULNERABLE TO THESE PROBLEMS. WHEN WE WERE GROWING UP WE ALL WANTED TO TRY THINGS THERE ARE SOME GROUPS MORE VULNERABLE THAN OTHERS. WE ARE ALL VULNERABLE. SOME GROUPS TEND TO BE MORE SO THAN OTHERS. IS ALCOHOL THE TRIGGER TO DRUGS? IT VARIES WITH INDIVIDUALS. THERE'S DIFFERENT FAMILY STRUCTURES. IF THERE IS PEOPLE WITH OPIATE USE ALREADY, IT WOULD BE THE GATEWAY. ALCHOHOL DOES TEND TO BE THE MAIN PROBLEM. WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE IMAGE OF HEROIN ADDICTS, BUT PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE IS GROWING, THIS IS NOT JUST A NZ PROBLEM, IT'S INTERNATIONAL. PRESCRITION DRUG ABUSE IS ON THE INCREASE. WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT. ISSUES LIKE PRESCRIBING FOR PAIN, SEDATIVES, THEY TEND TO BE ABUSED. BUT IS THAT THE PROBLEM WITH THE ABUSER OR PRESCRIBER? I THINK IT'S A PROBLEM OF SOCIETY. DOCTORS NEED TO PAY ATTENTION WHEN THEY ARE PRESCRIBING MONITORING IS NEEDED TO PRESCRIBE SAFELY. IS THAT SOMETHNIG YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE? THERE SHOULD BE A MOVE TO LOOK AT HOW DRUGS ARE PRESCRIBED? WE SHOULD, YES, AND LOOK AT WHY IT'S GOING THAT WHY. WHY IS THERE SUICH AN INCREASE IN PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE? DR SUSANNA GALEA, THANK YOU. So do you think the trial is worth it? Go to our website or email us at closeup@tvnz.co.nz. And we're on Facebook too ` facebook.com/closeup. Coming up ` the spy who saw too much. What's torturing this man about his former career? I opposed it but failed to stop it happening. And I thought, 'What have I become? And what has my country become?' And find out what men need to do to take better care of their health. There's good middle-aged men falling off the perch when they don't need to. When you're suffering with the aches, pains and congestion of cold and flu, it can be a real struggle. LABORIOUS TUBA MUSIC That's why Nurofen Cold & Flu targets aches and pains and helps clear nasal congestion. So, to get on with your day, trust the powerful, targeting action of Nurofen Cold & Flu. Glen Carle isn't a spy who's come in from the cold. He's a spy who's been left out in it. The former CIA man claims because he's talked about torture carried out by the US, he's been shunned. And for a tough guy ` 23 years in the CIA ` he's amazed to find the amount of people who wouldn't bat an eyelid over the idea of waterboarding. Gill Higgins spoke with Glenn Carle. You have this double life that is just normal. This is a man who revelled in being a spy. He would double-cross his contacts. He'd break the laws of other countries. We train for a long time. We practise how to deal with lying, how to learn how to lie. It becomes routine. All accepted methods for getting hold of top secret intelligence. But he never signed up for this. It was dubbed 'enhanced interrogation'. He saw it as torture and took a stand. I knew from the first that I would not do anything physical. He'd been thrust untrained into the world of secret prisons, given a high value Al Qaeda suspect to extract information. I opposed it, but failed to stop it happening. And I thought, 'What have I become and what has country become?' Another militant, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, was waterboarded 183 times for evidence. So how did it happen? How did it get to this state of affairs? 3000 Americans were destroyed in an instant, and people were angry and afraid and the feeling was, 'I will protect us. Move it! 'I will do whatever it takes.' This suspect in Guantanamo Bay was just 15. Some people think that if you do strike fear into people, they will tell you what you want to hear. They'll tell you what they think is required to stop being hurt. That's what we were doing to these people. That's what was happening to my guy. I was told that the absence of answer is proof of guilt, calling for increased pressure, and an answer was confirmation of guilt. He was screwed. When President Obama came to power, one of his first acts of office was to make a stand against these practices. Enhanced interrogation was officially over. The belief it's necessary was not. You ask Americans over 35, 'Should CIA officers torture to protect us?' a strong majority will say, 'Of course not. No. That's horrible.' When you ask Americans 35 and below, the majority of them say, 'It's OK. They have to do what they have to do.' Why do the young people believe this stuff? In part because they grew up shaped by 10 years of War on Terror, fears the bad guys are everywhere, and two, the television programme '24'. And you had Jack Bauer. He's me, right? And he's out there. 'Goddam it, I'll protect you, and I'll kill those <BLEEP>. And there are leaders believing the same. Every Republican presidential candidate defends, advocates the use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques'. CROWD CHANTS Romney included, who's won the nomination. It's shocking. It's not historical. So do you think if there was a change of government, that they'd revert? Yes. Yeah. If there were another crisis ` and there always will be other crises ` yes. I think they are unreconstructed and unrepentant. A change of US policy affects any troops in joint operations, and that includes Kiwi troops in Afghanistan. The stated objectives and the practices and the principles and the failings and successes of the larger partner are directly relevant to decisions that affect the streets here too. So Glenn Carle is doing his bit to influence opinion. His book, heavily censored by the CIA, aims to expose the injustice of what he was ordered to do. There was no ground whatsoever based on fact or principle to do what we did. But he's up against another book, from a CIA chief. This was a legal programme. Reading this book warns that America is at risk if torture is banned. There's no way to interrogate people to get intelligence to get out of that which you need. It doesn't work, it's immoral, it's illegal, it's un-American, and we shouldn't do it and don't need to do it to succeed in counter-terrorism operations. Coming up ` how's your health? Why Kiwi men might be worse off than they thought. At OPSM, we use precision technology to look deep in the eye, helping us better detect eye disease such as glaucoma ` just one of the ways we look deeper. Talk to OPSM about an eye-health check-up today. Men don't need doctors. It's a fact. We have magic powers that mean we can tell if we're sick or not, and there's no need to upset things by getting medical advice. OK, it's a bit out there, but not too far removed from many mens' thinking according to Dr Dave. Dr Dave is a machine. He simply won't give up trying to get us men to take our health seriously. Given it's Mens' Health Week, we unleashed Dr Dave on that bastion of blokiness, the construction site. FUNKY MUSIC Why do men need a prod about their health? Because the health statistics for men compared to women are terrible. They all die on average four years younger than women. Does men's health take second place? Well, it does at the moment. There's no reason men should die earlier than women. Is Dr Dave Baldwin right? Are we Kiwi men really that at risk when it comes to our health? Prove it, we said. We'll find the blokes; you do the tests. Do you get regular health checks? No. Not really. No. Are you the classic Kiwi guy? You're not going to go to the bloody doctor? Not till I'm sick, really. Who's seen a doctor in the last six months? One? What do you think of doctors? Dentists, mate. Dentists. There you go. There's one group worse than you. Dave, when was the last time you went to the doctor? I get a yearly check cos I'm a commercial pilot, but I know I look a bit pale, cos I don't get out in the sun much. But in Bulls, for a while, a lot of the locals thought I had leukaemia. So I kept that one going so they all paid their bills. They all thought I was dying, you see. LAUGHTER I wouldn't want to get on a plane with you. LAUGHTER SO who is this Dave Baldwin? Well, he used to be an air force doctor. Now he's the local GP in Bulls, and what he's seen has got him fired up. What I see, and this is the angle I come from as a GP on the front line, these good middle-aged men falling off of the perch when they don't need to. Something's wrong. My dad was 53 when he died, mum 64 ` both heart disease. How old are you now, if you don't mind me asking? 46. So you're seven years off your dad's age when he passed. Yeah, indeed. I tell my older brother that he hasn't got much left now. Another two years, and he's gone. Do you smoke? I do. Are you fit? Fairly. Do you play sport? No. Armchair sportsman. Do you eat good food? Try to. Look at me. (LAUGHS) You can see KFC from here, Nick. Yeah, you can smell it every morning. Is there such a thing as good, healthy takeaway food? There definitely is. Like what? Some of the Subway stuff's pretty good. I don't want to get my butt sued off, but the vast majority of takeaway food is full of food colourings, preservatives. It's high calorie, high carbohydrate, and that is bad. I'm his nurse, Mahindra. Oh, I know you, Mark Sainsbury. So what was his reading for the blood pressure? 120/70. Perfect. And that's good? Even though he's of Indian extraction, I'd want to do a skin check. Are people of Indian extraction less likely to have skin problems? Less likely to get melanoma. It's not rocket science. It's diabetes, cholesterol, overweight, smoking. It's lucky he's checking me, not you, Mahindra. Of course, as you'd expect, this is the kind of exhaustive investigation that goes all the way to the top. Meet Paul, the boss. How often would you get a check? Oh, probably once ever six months in our normal programme. Six months? Is that out of the ordinary, Dave? Is that more often than most people get checked? Yeah, it is. So there'll be a reason for that ` probably on blood pressure medication or something like that. But running a site like this, it could be madness medication too. (LAUGHS) Beautiful, beautiful blood pressure, and that's one of the great gifts in life. If you can have low blood pressure, it's good value, really good. This is a fit, prime` I'd say 90kg prime beef. But Dr Dave's got one big question for those reluctant starters. How can we get you to go to the doc more often? Sometimes when you go, it's full. You don't want to be sitting there for two hours. We're always working hard, looking out for our families, so we tell our wives to go, our kids to go, but we don't always think of ourselves. And I think we need to start thinking up front and taking our own tips. He's right on the man. He's the man, yeah. The reality is when they die early as middle-aged people and leave widows and wonderful children a sadness comes in and people say, 'Oh, if only he'd listened.' In actual fact, they do want to listen, but you've got to tell them in the right way. You get it? Now, I have to say overall the Fletchers workforce was pretty on to it. We had to seek out the most educational examples, and that's because the company provides medicals for its staff; something other employers could well follow suit on. Feedback now, and firstly on the ibogaine story. Seta says... And on the CIA man, Karl says... So Australia's most infamous miscarriage of justice was put completely to rest today. Azaria Chamberlain was killed by a dingo. It's not possible. It can't have taken the baby. a 32-year fight to clear her name. A dingo's got the baby. Jail for killing her own daughter. The cause of her death was as the result of being attacked and taken by a dingo. Finally her saga is over. Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton tomorrow night. That's tomorrow night, and that's NZ Close Up. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air.