Tonight on Close Up ` what will John Key do about the Pike River Report? Uh, the report is sobering, to be perfectly frank. He's live, and we'll have immediate reaction from the coast. Is it something in the soil? Why does Central Otago turn out such great wine? Just do everything you can to make the best wine possible, then you end up with the results. And forget self-promoting wannabes; check out real K success. Being a NZer means understanding what this country provides to you that you can't get anywhere else in the world. Due to the live nature of Close Up, captions for some items may be incomplete. ONE News captions by June Yeow and John Ling. Close Up captions by Virginia Philp and Sam Bradford. The Royal Commission report into Pike River is damning ` about the health and safety, about company responsibility, about Pike River's drive for coal and the emergency management in the mines and how government oversight or lack of it failed the 29 men who died. Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson resigned this afternoon because it all happened on her watch. Whether that's any consolation to families, we'll find out in a moment when we cross to Greymouth. But first, joining me live is Prime Minister John Key from our Wellington studio. PRIME MINISTER, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY TWO AREAS OF RESPONSIBILITY ONE, THE COMPANY, THE OTHER, THE GOVERNMENT. YOU SAID TODAY THAT THE COMPANY COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FAILED THEM. DO YOU STAND BY THAT? YES, ABSOLUTELY. THEY PUT PROFIT AHEAD OF SAFETY. HOW ELSE CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT IN THE 48 DAYS PRIOR THERE WERE MANY PREVIOUS EVENTS? THERE WERE 21 RECOREDED EVENTS OF SUCH HIGH METHANE LEVELS. THEY FAILED IN SO MANY SAFETY AREAS. FUNDAMENTALLY, THE COMPANY FAILED. BUT THE REGULATOR, IN THE FORM OF THE GOVERNMENT, FAILED AS WELL. THE COMPANY - IF YOU'RE DIRECTOR AND YOU LOSE MONEY, YOU CAN END UP IN THE COURTS, EVEN GOING TO JAIL. WHY ISN'T THAT A POSSIBILITY FOR DIRECTORS WHO COST PEOPLE'S LIVES? SO, IT'S POSSIBLE, I THINK. IF YOU LOOK AT PETER WHITTALL, HE IS FACING CRIMINAL CHARGES. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FINANCE AND MINING COMPANY IS TO DO WITH THE ACT THAT GOVERNS THEM. FINANCE COMPANIES ` THEIR LEGISLATION SPELLS OUT THAT THEY CAN BE HELD LIABLE. THE GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING AT INTRODUCING LEGISLATION AROUND CRIMINAL MANSLAUGHTER. THAT'S CERTAINLY THE POSITION IN THE UK, FOR INSTANCE. YOU SAY YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS. 'THIS IS A SOUND RECOMMENDATION.' YOU SAY IT'S WELCOMED. THE LANGUAGE SEEMS TO BE A BIT SOFTER AROUND THE CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER. THE REASON IS THAT THE 16 RECOMMENDATIONS WERE RAISED BY THE ROYAL COMMISSION. WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME SPECIFIC BITS. THE CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER IDEA WAS RAISED BY THE FAMILY. WE DON'T HAVE ANY REAL ADVICE ON THAT, BUT WE KNOW IT'S BEEN IN THE UK. SO WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT ISSUE. THE FAMILIES FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THIS. I JUST FIND IT DIFFICULT THAT YOU WOUDLN'T HAVE LOOKED AT IT ALREADY? WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES THAT MIGHT BE APPLICABLE FOR THE RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE? I SUPPOSE, FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S POINT OF VIEW, YES, THAT'S DEFINITELY AN ISSUE, BUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS FOCUSED ON ULTIMATELY IS IS HOW DO WE ENSURE HEALTH AND SAFETY IS ACROSS NZ IS SAFER AS THE COMMISSION POINTED OUT, WE'RE SEEING MANY ACCIDENTS BY OECD STANDARDS. I KNOW THAT EVERYONE WOULD WELCOME WORKPLACE STRENGTHENING OF HEALTH AND SAFETY, BUT IF WE CAN HAVE SUCH A LAW FOR FINANCE, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE ONE FOR SAFETY? YOU NEED TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT. ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE. AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL OF THAT IS AFTER THE EVENT. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TAKE ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO SAY THAT HOW DO WE GET IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE A ONCE IN A GENERATION PROBLEM AND LOSS OF LIFE. WE HAVE TO LEARN FROM WHAT HAPPENED, AND EVERYONE MOURNS THOSE 29 MEN. HOW DO WE USE THEIR LEGACY? SO YOU ARE PREPARED TO LOOK AT CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER? CORRECT AND WHETHER IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IN THE UK, IT SEEMS TO BE THE COMPENSATION IS MONETARY. IN THE CASE OF PIKE RIVER, IN RECEIVERSHIP, FINANCIAL COMPO WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE. WE KNOW FROM THE ROYAL COMMISSION REPORT AND PEOPLE WOULD AGREE THERE WERE FAILURES FROM THE COMPANY. THE COMMISSION ALSO SAYS THERE WAS A LACK OF REGULATORY OVERSIGHT. IN FACT, AGAIN, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THE LABOUR DEPT WAS DELUDED THAT THEY HAD A HANDLE ON IT. 29 PEOPLE DIED. IS IT ENOUGH FOR A MINISTER TO RESIGN ONE PORTFOLIO? I THINK KATE WILKINSON HAS BEEN A GOOD MINISTER. I'VE SEEN NO EVIDENCE THAT HER ACTIONS OR INACTIONS LED TO THE DEATHS. WHAT SHE HAD WAS REPORTS FROM HER MINISTRY THAT THEY WERE BUILDING CAPABILITIES, ETC. NEVERTHELESS, OVER SUCCESSIVE YEARS, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS A CHANGE IN THE WAY THAT WE IMPLEMENT H&S POLICY. IT'S MORE HANDS-OFF. PIKE RIVER WAS IN THAT ORDER. IT WAS TREATED TO BE A HIGH-TRUST COMPANY. IN THE END, SOMEONE HAS TO STEP UP. SHE IS THE HEAD OF THAT MINISTRY, AND IT FAILED THOSE PEOPLE. AND SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE RESPONSBILITY AT GOVERNMENT LEVEL. THAT'S THE HONOURABLE THING TO DO. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT SHE DIRECTLY CAUSED THEIR DEATHS. BUT SHE IS THE MINISTER, AND SO IN OUR SYSTEM SHE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY. ALL SHE IS DOING IS RESIGNING A PORTFOLIO. IT'S ALMOST LIKE GOING ON TO LESSER DUTIES. I THINK SOME FIND IT HARD TO SEE WHAT THAT ACHIEVES. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OPTIONS. YOU COULD FIRE A MINISTER. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE SHE DID ANYTHING WRONG. YOU'D BE FIRING A MINISTER FOR THE EVIDENCE SHE RECEIVED FROM HER MINISTRY, WHICH WAS INADEQUATE. YOU COULD LEAVE THE MINISTER THERE AND NOT ACCEPT HER RESIGNATION. A LOT OF NZERS WOULD SAY THIS DAMNING REPORT SAYS THAT SAYS THERE ARE TWO PARTIES THAT HAVE TO TAKE CULPABILITY ` THE COMPANY AND THE GOVERNMENT. THE THIRD OPTION IS THE HONOURABLE THING, SHE'S RESIGNED HER PORTFOLIO. THERE IS PRECEDENCE IN THE UK FOR THAT. IN THE CAVE CREEK DISASTER, MR MARSHALL RESIGNED. TO KATE'S CREDIT, SHE'S DONE IT ON DAY ONE. YOU'VE SAID YOU ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATIONS. HAVE YOU GOT A TIMEFRAME FOR THIS? ASAP. AND IN DEFENCE OF KATE WILKINSON, KATE WILKINSON SET UP THE HIGH HAZARDS UNIT. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RECOMMENDATIONS WHICH SAY WE NEED TO ALIGN OUR H&S. WE'RE GONNA GET ON TO THAT STRAIGHT AWAY. TIMEFRAME? ASAP. SOME OF THE STUFF WILL BE VERY QUICKLY. THE FAMIILES WERE TOLD TWELVE MONTHS BY MINISTERS TODAY? IT'S POSSIBLE. ONE OF THE THINGS FROM THE ROYAL COMMISSION REPORT IS LEGISLATIVE CHANGE. LEGISLATION WILL TAKE TIME, BUT WE'LL WORK ON OTHER THINGS QUICKLY. JOHN KEY, APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN. Listening to the Prime Minister has been Carol Rose. Her son Stuart Mudge was one of the 29 victims of the Pike River disaster. She is the secretary of the Pike River Families Group. She joins me now live from Greymouth. WHAT'S YOU REACTION? THE REPORT WAS POSITIVE. IT WAS PROMISING IN WHAT IT DELIVERED TO THE FAMILIES. LISTENING TO JOHN KEY, IF WE ADDRESS THE CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER, IN OUR CASE, AND PIKE RIVER COAL, THE DECISIONS MADE BY MANAGEMENT WERE PASSED DOWN THEY SET UP A CULTURE OF PROFIT OVER SAFETY. THESE DECISIONS AND THAT CULTURE ENABLED THAT DISASTER TO HAPPEN. AND YOU BELIEVE CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER LAWS IT WOULD FORCE DIRECTORS AND BOARDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY? I DO INDEED. THEY MIGHT THEN THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT THEIR DECISIONS. CAROL, I KNOW YOU WERE BRIEFED BY MINISTERS THIS AFTERNOON. WHAT'S THE FEELING WITH THE FAMILIES? WE BELIEVE THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE DONE A WONDERFUL JOB. THE THREE COMMISSIONERS HAVE DELIVERED EVERYTHING THE FAMILIES HOPED FOR WAS DELIVERED. IT WAS HARD-HITTING. IT POINTED THE FAILINGS OUT. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DEPT OF LABOUR AND PIKE RIVER COAL, SURE, THE COMPANY WAS AT FAULT, BUT THE MINISTRY WAS THE WATCHDOG. THE PM SAID KATE WILKINSON DID THE HONOURABLE THING BY RESIGNING. DO YOU ACCEPT THAT? IT COULD BE SEEN AS A SLAP OVER THE FISTS WITH A WET FISH. THEY KEEP SAYING IN THAT SUCCESSIVE GOVTS FAILED. IT IS A LACK OF ACITON GOING BACK 20 YEARS. IS IT FAIR TO SAY WE CAN'T PICK ON ONE MINISTER BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY OVER THE YEARS? AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO STOP THE ROT. YOU KNOW, ANY MINISTER ALL THE WAY DOWN IN THE LAST 20 YEARS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT IT RIGHT. IT'S UNFORTUNATE FOR KATE WILKINSON THAT IT HAPPENED ON HER WATCH, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT SHE STEPS DOWN. I KNOW YOU WERE TOLD A TIMEFRAME OF 12 MONTHS WAS MENTIONED,` THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE OF THE COAST WANT TO SEE? WE WERE TOLD TO THE END OF 2013 AT THE LATEST. THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED TO US THAT SOME WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED QUICKLY. WE KNOW THIS IS A DIFFICULT TIME FOR YOU. THE SECOND ANNIVERSARY IS NEAR. THAT'S PLAYING ON YOUR MINDS? IT'S CERTAINLY IN OUR MINDS. WE'RE THANKFUL THE REPORT CAME OUT BEFORE THE ANNIVERSARY. I DOES FEEL TO ME, PERSONALLY, WE'VE REACHED A MILESTONE. CAROL ROSE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES. So what do you think? Has the Government done right by the Pike River 29? Go to our website or email us at closeup@tvnz.co.nz and, of course, the debate continues on Facebook. Facebook.com/closeup. Coming up ` what is about Central Otago that gets it producing world-beating wine? PREVIOUS CAPTION INCORRECT Success is different from fame, and it's success Sir Ray Avery is interested in. He certainly knows it. The scientist, entrepreneur and NZer of the Year's collaborated on a book asking our brightest and best what's driven them to dream big. What's the answer? Mark Crysell finds out. Well, I didn't want it to be a pastiche of, um, the usual suspects. Hands up if you recognise more than one of these faces. I wanted it to be almost heartland NZ. These are NZers who have achieved to a very high degree. The rationale for choosing people was that they exemplified the K spirit. Sir Ray Avery is a former NZer of the Year, an inventor, scientist, philanthropist, an immigrant who's just launched a book with journalist Cameron Bennett and photographer Adrian Malloch celebrating what he calls NZers who dare to dream. I actually thought we actually need to stand up now and say we are clever buggers. My name is John Boys. We have been working in the area of inductive power transfer which is a technology whereby we can move electric power from one place to another without any wires. I think that NZ has a huge number of opportunities because we are brought up with the idea and the reality that if you want something done, you're pretty much going to end up doing it yourself. Many in the book weren't born here. My name's Oscar Kightley, and I think I basically make a living out of making up stuff. It wasn't my dream that brought me here; it was my parents' dreams, and, um, I have spent my time, hopefully, making that dream a reality and making the sacrifices worth it. Arriving here can be a liberation. I'm not from here, so I come here and the rules of whatever the rules are here don't apply. I don't need to know what the rules are, and also I don't know anyone here, so failing is not really a problem. Sean Simpson's company LanzaTech has developed a product that turns industrial waste in biofuel. You found a country on the basis that you have to leave home and never see your family again and going to the other side of the world where no one's ever going to fix anything for you, and you've got to therefore fix it yourself. And that mindset then pervades in NZ, and I think that's what sets the place apart. On the other hand, Sir Graeme Douglas' ancestors were some of those who helped build this country. I'm delighted that my Irish and Scots ancestors made the trip and set up in NZ and helped back in the 1860s, helped colonise this great little country. I was genuinely trying to find out where we were as a country. I was genuinely trying to find out who we are as a country. Was it that number eight fencing wire myth, or was it something else? Peter Beck's company designs and builds world-beating rockets, but he's no rocket scientist. No such thing, actually, but seems to stick. We could've launched something that was very simple, very basic and would've grabbed some attention, but we went the full hog and launched something very very innovative. Very unique and really pushed the boundaries. It's something that we named after Grace Jones. It's called the Jones Wedge. You couldn't accuse shoe designer Kathryn Wilson of being a bloke in a shed. We market ourselves as something that's already out there, something fresh, so therefore you're looking to probably develop new ideas rather than remake what celebrities are wearing overseas. We need to actually start to believe in ourselves. We can't come down from the mountain, shuffle our feet and say we've knocked the bugger off. We've actually got to stand up and say we're Ks. We are the clever country. I'm Sharad Paul. Um, I don't really know what I've done to be in the book, really. Quite a bit, actually. Sharad Paul is a world renowned skin-cancer doctor who gives over 5000 free consultations a year and also writes novels. We probably treat the most number of skin cancers of anyone, and then one day a week I work in lower decile schools. I teach creative writing to children who can't read or write properly. All the profits from the book will go to Medicine Mondiale, a charity set up by Ray Avery aimed at making health care available to the poor. Much of it he invented ` something he says he could never have done if he didn't come to NZ. We have this tall-poppy syndrome, I think, where it's not good form to say that you're clever at something, um, except, of course, you're in rugby,... (CHUCKLES) but we've got to change that paradigm and celebrate what a huge dent we make on the global stage. Most people just don't know. So, can you say that for me? Can you say, 'I'm a clever bugger'? All right. I'm a clever bugger. Yeah. The book, entitled The Power of Us, is available in all bookshops now. Coming up ` on the homeward stretch for Close Up, but we'll tell you how we're still making a mark. And your feedback on the Royal Commission report into Pike River. Keep your comments coming. Email us or Facebook us right now. Feedback now, and it's on the Pike River Royal Commission. Wendy emails: Jacqui on Facebook has this: Wayne writes: Wayne writes: Before we go tonight, the TV Awards were held on the weekend, and Close Up got a mention. And the winner is... Gill Higgins and Chris Lynch! Yes, Gill and Chris won Best Current Affairs Reporting for a Daily Programme for their internet predator story. It took months of work, and the trophy was well deserved. Also a shout-out to our own Mark Crysell who, on loan to the Sunday programme, won best Current Affairs Reporting for a Weekly Show with Julie Clothier. Congratulations to them all. Before we go ` remember it's the 5th of November, Guy Fawkes' Night tonight. We had emails from viewers asking us to remind everyone to be watchful of their animals. Corrie says her daughter's Jack Russell, Styx, took off last night and they're still searching. You can report lost dogs to your local council. That's NZ Close Up. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air. Copyright TVNZ Access Services 2012