CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. ONE NEWS CAPTIONS BY SAM BRADFORD AND LAUREN STRAIN. COPYRIGHT TVNZ ACCESS SERVICES 2013 DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF SEVEN SHARP, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. HELLO. WELCOME TO SEVEN SHARP. IS THE POPE CATHOLIC? WELL, YES, BUT HE MAY NOT BE POPE FOR MUCH LONGER FOLLOWING TODAY'S BIG NEWS ` HE'S VACATING THE VATICAN. WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR THE FAITHFUL ONE BILLION OF THEM A LITTLE LATER IN THE SHOW, BUT WE HAVE SOME IDEAS ABOUT RECRUITING TO REPLACE THE EX-BENEDICT. NOW, NORMALLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES THIS TO DECIDE ON A SUCCESSOR. OH, YEAH, BUT THAT CAN TAKE WEEKS AND WEEKS AND WEEKS. SURELY, WE THOUGHT, THERE MUST BE A FASTER WAY. ALSO, LATER IN THE SHOW, WE'LL INVESTIGATE THE LAND OF WOGISTAN WITH NZ FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS. NEVER HEARD OF IT? WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE IT EXISTS ONLY IN THE MIND OF NZ FIRST MP RICHARD PROSSER. YES, HE HAS PUT BOTH FEET IN IT BY SAYING THAT ALL MUSLIMS SHOULD BE BANNED FROM FLYING WITH WESTERN AIRLINES. HE ALSO SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE DENIGRATED BY 'A SORRY PACK OF MISOGYNISTIC TROGLODYTES FROM WOGISTAN'. YEAH. HEY, AND IF AND IF THE TERRORISTS LIVE IN WOGISTAN, IT'S ONLY FAIR WE SHOW YOU WHERE RICHARD COMES FROM. THOSE ARE THE MOUNTAINS OF INTOLERANCE IN THE MIDDLE THERE. JOHN KEY SAYS HE'S KEEN ON A DETERRENT TO STOP BOAT PEOPLE COMING TO NZ. AND THE BOAT PEOPLE SAY, 'HEY, WE'VE GOT A DETERRENT. IT'S CALLED 2000KM OF OPEN SEA, BRO.' AND WE'RE ON THAT OPEN SEA LATER TONIGHT WHEN WE CHUCK ONE OF OUR REPORTERS IN WITHOUT A LIFE JACKET TO PLAY A GAME WE LIKE TO CALL SINK OR SWIM. IT'S ABOUT WATER SAFETY. IT'S TUESDAY NIGHT. WELCOME TO SEVEN SHARP. TWITTER WAS ALL ABOUT THE POPE AND RICHARD PROSSER TODAY. EXTRA POINTS FROM ME IF YOU CAN COMBINE THE TWO SUBJECTS INTO ONE CLEVER TWEET. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS YOU WANT TO CONTRIBUTE, GO TO OUR INTERACTIVE WEBSITE ` SEVENSHARP.CO.NZ ` AS YOU'RE WATCHING THE SHOW. A POCKET KNIFE SEEMS TO HAVE OPENED A LARGE CAN OF WORMS FOR NZ FIRST. MP RICHARD PROSSER SAYING ALL YOUNG MUSLIM MEN ` APPARENTLY THEY'RE FROM SOMEWHERE CALLED WOGISTAN ` SHOULD BE BANNED FROM FLYING ON ALL WESTERN AIRLINES. HEATHER DU PLESSIS-ALLAN GOT THIS REACTION TO THE COMMENTS. ARE YOU A MISOGYNIST TROGLADYTE FROM WOGISTAN? NO. I DON'T KNOW` I NEVER HEARD OF THIS WOGISTAN. WHERE IS WOGISTAN? DO YOU KNOW WHO THIS MAN RICHARD PROSSER IS? NO, I DON'T KNOW. HE'S NOT ALONE. RICHARD PROSSER'S THE GUY WITH THE BEARD ` ONE OF THE MOSTLY UNKNOWN FACES WHO RODE INTO PARLIAMENT ON WINSTON PETERS' COAT-TAILS. LOOK, HERE'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE FACES. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RICHARD PROSSER'S COMMENTS? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RICHARD PROSSER'S COMMENTS? SORRY, I HAVE NO COMMENT. I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM. YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE COMMENTS? NO COMMENT. WE TOOK THE ARTICLE TO THE MOSQUE TO READ A FEW OF ITS CHOICE BITS. 'MUSLIM MEN ARE A SORRY PACK OF MISOGYNISTIC TROGLODYTES 'FROM WOGISTAN'? I FEEL THAT... IT'S VERBAL DIARRHOEA. 'GO RIDE A CAMEL INSTEAD.' THIS IS COMPLETELY RACIAL... RACIST REMARK. AND 'YOU'RE A MUSLIM, OR YOU LOOK LIKE A MUSLIM'. WHAT DOES A MUSLIM MAN LOOK LIKE? LOOK AT US. WE ARE MUSLIMS. WELL, THEY HAVE BEARDS, BUT THEN SO DO HIPSTERS, AND THEY DON'T SEEM LIKE TERRORISTS. RICHARD PROSSER PROBABLY DOESN'T THINK CABINET MINISTER TIM GROSER LOOKS LIKE A MUSLIM, BUT HE IS. WE WANTED TO ASK HIS VIEWS, BUT HE'S IN THE PACIFIC ISLANDS. HE GOT THERE ON A PLANE. WHILE THE MAN AT THE CENTRE OF WOGISTAN STORM HASN'T BEEN KEEN TO TALK, HIS LEADER HAS. I SPOKE TO WINSTON PETERS A SHORT TIME AGO AND ASKED WHAT HE MADE OF RICHARD PROSSER'S COMMENTS. WELL, HE WROTE AN ARTICLE THAT'S TO DO WITH A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE WORLDWIDE, BUT THE FACT IS, ON REFLECTION, IT'S NOT BALANCED AND IT WRONGFULLY IMPUGNS A WHOLE LOT OF` YOU KNOW, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FROM SUCH AN ALLEGATION WHO ARE MUSLIM, AND THE RECORD SHOULD BE PUT STRAIGHT. IS THIS RACISM? NOT THE WAY THAT I READ IT. THE FACT IS THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS CONCERN ON THE ISSUE OF TERRORISM, BUT WHAT IS WRONG IS TO LUMP EVERYBODY IN THE SAME BOAT WITHOUT CLARIFYING WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WORDS LIKE WOGISTAN ` I MEAN, THEY MAY HAVE SEEMED LIKE A GREAT IDEA WHEN HE'S WRITING, BUT IT JUST SOUNDS IGNORANT. AND IT DOES SOUND XENOPHOBIC, DOES IT NOT? WELL, THAT WAS A PHRASE THAT WAS DREAMT UP BY A JOURNALIST WRITING FOR THE NBR MANY YEARS AGO TO DO WITH THE WINEBOX` THAT'S NOT THE` BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO USE IT AGAIN. HE'S USED IT AGAIN, THEREFORE HE OBVIOUSLY THINKS IT'S AN ACCEPTABLE THING TO SAY. YOU'RE PREPARED TO SAY THAT THAT WAS RACIST, BUT WHEN I TOLD YOU THE WORD` THE ORIGINS COME FROM A JOURNALIST, YOU TEND TO SLIDE PAST THAT. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. NO, NO, NO, NO. THERE'S NO SLIDING PAST IT, WINSTON. HE'S USED IT AGAIN. HE'S PERPETUATING IT. WHETHER IT'S RACIST TO START WITH OR NOT IS NOT THE POINT. HE'S USED IT AGAIN, THEREFORE HE THINKS IT'S ACCEPTABLE. IT WAS NEVER RACIST WHEN IT WAS USED BY AN NBR JOURNALIST, AND IT'S NOT RACIST NOW. IT'S A MYTHICAL LAND ABOUT WHICH SOMEONE WAS SPEAKING. SO WHAT HAVE YOU SAID TO HIM? WELL, WHAT I'VE SAID TO HIM IS, 'HAVING LOOKED AT THIS ARTICLE, YOU PUT THE RIDER ON FIRST ` 'IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THIS DISTINCTION YOU SEEK TO MAKE, 'AND HERE IS THE CONCLUSION THAT PEOPLE ARE ARRIVING AT. 'AND ALSO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM WHICH SIMPLY CANNOT BE.' FOR EXAMPLE, IF I WAS TO HOP ON HALF OF THE AIRLINES IN THE MIDDLE EAST, I'LL BE FLOWN BY A MUSLIM PILOT, SO I SAID, 'LOOK, YOU CANNOT GET AWAY WITH THAT EXTREMIST STATEMENT, 'SO DO YOU NOT THINK THAT YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER?' AND HE SAID, 'YES, IT WAS UNBALANCED, 'AND THAT PART WAS WRONG.' WILL HE APOLOGISE, THEN? WELL, IF IT COMES DOWN TO THAT, BUT CLARIFICATION AND A CLEAR STATEMENT AS TO THE INCORRECTNESS OF ONE STATEMENT. HIS MIGHT BE A LEARNING CURVE AND IT MAY BE MANY THINGS. BUT IF AN APOLOGY WAS REQUESTED, THEN I THINK THAT HE'LL HAVE NO DIFFICULTY WITH THAT. BUT HERE'S THE REAL ISSUE ` CLARIFYING WHAT THE ISSUE WAS AND WHAT HE SAID AND HOW IT COULD HAVE BEEN FAR BETTER AND MORE BALANCED AND MORE MEANINGFUL THAN THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE SOUGHT TO DO. WILL HE BE STOOD DOWN? WILL HE BE DISCIPLINED BY YOU? FOR A PERIOD, WILL HE BE STOOD DOWN? NO, I'M NOT STANDING DOWN FOR A PERSON MAKING A MISTAKE AND NOT THINKING AN ARTICLE THROUGH. WE ALL MAKE THOSE SORTS OF MISTAKES, AND IT'S NOT A FEDERAL CASE HERE. GIVEN THAT, HE WROTE IT, HE SAID IT. YOU ARE NOW FRONTING, AS YOU SAY. WILL YOU MAKE HIM FRONT? WILL YOU MAKE HIM FRONT? APOLOGISE? WILL HE BE DISCIPLINED? I'M FRONTING BECAUSE YOU ASKED ME TO. THAT'S THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE` WILL HE? OK, THEN. WILL HE FRONT? SHOULD HE FRONT? WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ASK HIM THAT. Richard, if you're watching, call. JESSE'S BEEN CHECKING OUT THE REACTION ONLINE. YEAH, WHAT TO DO ABOUT DICK PROSSER? AS USUAL, TWITTER WAS FULL OF IDEAS. KELVIN DAVIS ASKS, 'IF RICHARD'S GOING TO BAN EXTREMISTS FROM FLYING, 'HOW WILL HE FLY?' MEHPARA KHAN POINTS OUT THAT NZ'S ONLY HIJACKER WAS A WOMAN AND THE GUY WHO BUZZED AROUND THE SKY TOWER WAS WHITE. VERNON SMALL RECKONS PROSSER'S GOING TO BAN MIDDLE-AGED MEN IN BUSINESS, BECAUSE THEY COMMIT THE MOST FRAUD. AND KIERAN NASH PROBABLY SUMS UP MOST OF OUR FEELINGS WITH THIS TWEET. BY THE WAY, THERE IS ONE PERSON WHO'S NOT UPSET WITH RICHARD PROSSER'S PERFORMANCE TODAY ` THIS GUY. BRENDAN SAYS, 'KEEP IT UP, RICHARD.' HE'S REALLY ENJOYING THE BREAK. STAY WITH US. WE'LL SOON SPEAK TO THE MAN WHO PUBLISHED RICHARD PROSSER'S COLUMN. ALSO, HOW LONG COULD YOU SURVIVE IF YOU FELL OUT OF A BOAT WITHOUT A LIFE JACKET? REPORTER MATT CHISHOLM IS OUR MAN OVERBOARD NEXT. 'INVESTIGATE' MAGAZINE, WHICH PUBLISHED RICHARD PROSSER'S COMMENTS, IS KNOWN FOR PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES. REMEMBER JOHN TAMIHERE'S INTERVIEW, WHERE HE INSULTED HELEN CLARK AND CALLED WOMEN 'FRONT BUMS'? IT ALSO RAN ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THE PERSONAL LIFE OF CLARK'S HUSBAND, PETER DAVIS. EDITOR IAN WISHART IS WITH US. You're the closest thing we can get to Richard Prosser today. You publish this column. Do you think it is racist? No, I do not think it is racist. It's Richard's style. He uses exaggerated points to try and get as argument across. But his style. His main point is that billion dollars are being spent on airport security, when we're not profiling properly on who is most likely to be a threat to security. He's made his argument probably badly. But the language used was racist, wasn't it? I wouldn't use that language. But our magazine is there to get people talking. The closest thing I can liken it to is talkback. Comments that talkback hosts make are deliberately provocative. Richard Prosser is that style, and so is our magazine. The guy's an MP. That makes a difference. That's his job. It's up to him. We have as a writer, and we have for 10 years. How he performs in Parliament is over to him and his colleagues. Why hasn't he fronted? Ask him. I'm here. It's amazing that Richard's column, which normally goes unnoticed by anybody, has prompted so much conversation. So you weren't expecting this? Had you read the column? I skimmed through it. Had you read it properly, would you have published it? In a clear state of mind... With opinion columns from provocative columnists, it's up to them. If I started editing out words I found inappropriate, I'll be making my magazine. What I've tried to do right through the magazine's history is give the columnists A voice. Will you can continue to publish columns from a guy who won't stand up and answers critics? He's going to have two. I think that's the way it is in this country. A columnist who is also an MP, it seems to me that there is an extra responsibility. Is not my job as an editor to muzzle an MP. Seven Sharp would not have had the chance to look at this in detail if the columnist had made these comments. I think it is valuable. I heard the Muslim Association talking about how bad it is. In 2007, there was a conference in which they invited several hate speakers from overseas who condoned stoning of gay people. What I'm saying is that in our magazine, we have always looked at both sides of this debate. We have never been precious about it. Just as the media has looked at this and said it is an appropriate, this is the context that it's set in. It's not something I would say. We do have Muslim readers. A Pakistani reader tipped us off about a terrorist cell a couple of years ago. We are just about the terrorism security issue. Thanks for your time. OK, CHANGE OF TOPIC HERE. EVERY SUMMER WE'RE SHOCKED, AND EVERY SUMMER IT HAPPENS ` BOATIES WITHOUT A LIFE JACKET DROWNING. YOU HAVE TO WONDER DO PEOPLE JUST FANCY THEIR CHANCES WITHOUT A LIFE JACKET IF IT DOES GO PEAR-SHAPED? SO A BIT OF AN EXPERIMENT ` WE THREW REPORTER MATT CHISHOLM IN THE DRINK TO FIND OUT HOW LONG HE LASTS. OMINOUS MUSIC HE'S TIRED. IF I DON'T KEEP MOVING, I JUST, SORT OF, GO UNDER. IT WOULD BE TERRIFYING. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STAND A HIGH CHANCE FENDING FOR YOURSELF. LOST AT SEA WITHOUT SAFETY GEAR, WITHOUT ANY MEANS OF COMMUNICATION. ACTUALLY, MIGHT BE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF CRAMP IN MY CALVES. I HATE TO TELL YOU THAT'S NOT GOING TO GET BETTER. IF NOBODY KNOWS WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND YOU CAN TELL ANYBODY WHERE YOU ARE, THAT YOU'RE IN TROUBLE, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF CHANCE FOR YOU TO BE RESCUED, IS THERE? EVENTUALLY, YOU GET COLD AND TIRED, YOU'RE UNABLE TO KEEP YOURSELF AFLOAT AND YOU DROWN. BUT HOW LONG HAVE WE GOT BEFORE IT'S ALL OVER? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT. DRAMATIC MUSIC MOTOR WHIRRS THE DAY STARTED PERFECTLY ` WHO'S UP FOR A BEER? THREE MATES FISHING AND DRINKING. CHEERS, FELLAS. > THERE'S NO LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE CAN HAVE ON BOARD, THE RUNABOUT DOESN'T REQUIRE A WARRANT OF FITNESS, OUR SKIPPER DOESN'T NEED A LICENCE, WE DON'T HAVE TO WEAR LIFE JACKETS, AND THERE'S NO WORRIES ABOUT BEING DONE DIC. < COMPARED TO OUR ROADS, < WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT ANYTHING GOES OUT HERE? I WON'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION. SORRY, MATT. (LAUGHS) DRAMATIC MUSIC FOR WHATEVER REASON, I END UP IN THE DRINK. THE MOBILE PHONE'S LONG GONE. I DON'T HAVE VHF RADIO OR A LIFE JACKET ` DON'T HAVE MUCH HOPE. MY EYES AND MY THROAT STING. MY NECK, LEGS AND ARMS ARE SORE. < AM I AN IDIOT? ARE YOU AN IDIOT? (LAUGHS) I'VE ONLY JUST MET YOU, MATT, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD, YOU KNOW, MAKE THAT KIND OF ASSUMPTION. OK, IT'S AN EXTREME SCENARIO, BUT ONE THAT'S HAPPENING FAR TOO OFTEN. THERE HAVE BEEN CALLS FOR NEW BOATING LEGISLATION... ...CHANCES OF FINDING A FATHER AND SON ALIVE... ...DANGERS OF NOT WEARING LIFE JACKETS AT SEA. OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, THE AVERAGE DEATH TOLL FOR POWER-BOATING ACCIDENTS IS EIGHT. LAST YEAR IT WAS 20, THE HIGHEST TOLL IN TWO DECADES. IT'S NOT LIMITED TO ANY PARTICULAR GROUP. WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE REPRESENTED HIGHER THAN OTHERS, AND GENERALLY THE NZ MALE IS A TYPICAL CANDIDATE THERE FOR NOT GETTING THAT RIGHT. HOW DO PEOPLE END UP IN THE WATER? IT CAN HAPPEN REALLY QUICKLY, MATT, ESPECIALLY ON SMALLER VESSELS. WHEN YOU MOVE AROUND ON A SMALL VESSEL, YOUR BODY WEIGHT CAN MAKE THE VESSEL UNSTABLE REALLY QUICKLY. A SMALL WAVE CAN CATCH YOU WHEN YOU'RE NOT LOOKING. NOW, I'M NOT ENTIRELY STUPID. COASTGUARD'S JUST METRES AWAY, I'M TETHERED TO THEIR BOAT AND CAN PULL THE PIN ON THIS INFLATABLE LIFE JACKET, PULL THE PIN ON THIS EXPERIMENT AT ANY TIME. LOOKING A BIT BLUE, ACTUALLY. NOT ONLY THAT ` YOU'D STRUGGLE TO FIND A BETTER DAY TO BE, HYPOTHETICALLY AT LEAST, FIGHTING FOR YOUR LIFE. < HOW LONG DO YOU THINK I'LL LAST? WHAT DO YOU GIVE ME? I THINK THAT THE BETS ARE OUT. THERE'S BEEN A BIT OF AN OFFICE POOL. WE'RE GIVING YOU SOMEWHERE AROUND ABOUT 30 OR 40 MINUTES BEFORE YOU DECIDE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO COME BACK ON BOARD. HOW MUCH TIME HAVE PEOPLE GOT BEFORE THEY'RE DEAD? THAT'S NOT A QUESTION I CAN EASILY ANSWER, BUT BASICALLY WITHOUT A LIFE JACKET, YOU DON'T HAVE A LONG TIME ` POSSIBLY NOT LONG ENOUGH FOR RESCUERS TO GET TO YOU. DESPITE BEING VERY UNCOMFORTABLE, I MANAGED TO MAKE IT THROUGH THAT 30, 40 MINUTE BARRIER. WE'RE ONLY METRES AWAY THE WHOLE TIME, SO HE'S NOT WORRIED ABOUT HIS CHANCE OF SURVIVAL. BUT IF THIS WAS A REAL-LIFE SCENARIO AND I'D HAD A LIFE JACKET AND VHF RADIO ` ROUGH VALUE $150 ` I'D MORE THAN LIKELY BE ON THE COASTGUARD BOAT ALREADY. INSTEAD I'M STILL STRUGGLING IN THE WATER, LISTENING TO THE SKIPPER CRACKING JOKES AT MY EXPENSE. I'LL PAY YOU TO STAY IN LONGER BECAUSE MY SWEEPSTAKES AT THE OTHER END. LAUGHTER SO WHY AREN'T PEOPLE WEARING LIFE JACKETS AND USING RADIO? MAYBE THERE'S A PERCEPTION THAT THERE'S A HIGH COST THERE, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS NOT THE CASE. MAYBE IT'S THAT TYPICAL NZ BLOKE ATTITUDE ABOUT SHE'LL BE RIGHT OR IT'S NOT COOL TO BE SEEN WEARING A LIFE JACKET. WHAT'S NOT COOL IS DOING THIS. DRAMATIC MUSIC FOR THREE HOURS, I STUBBORNLY TRIED TO KEEP MY HEAD ABOVE WATER BEFORE I COULD NO MORE. SITTING DOWN, EH? OH MAN. I'M A DROWNED RAT. HAVE A SEAT THERE. SO, I LASTED LONGER THAN COASTGUARD EXPECTED, BUT IF I WASN'T RELATIVELY FIT, THE CONDITIONS WERE WORSE AND HELP WASN'T AT HAND, THAT THREE HOURS PROBABLY WOULD BE MORE LIKE 30 TO 40 MINUTES. SO THE QUESTION IS ` IS THAT LONG ENOUGH? HOW DIFFICULT WOULD IT BE TO FIND SOMEONE LOST AT SEA? IF WE DON'T HAVE A LOCATION FOR WHERE THAT PERSON IS, IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. HARDLY SURPRISING, THEN, THAT COASTGUARD IS ONE OF MANY CURRENTLY LOBBYING THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE LIFE JACKETS COMPULSORY FOR PEOPLE IN VESSELS 6M AND UNDER, SOMETHING THAT I NOW HAVE TO AGREE WITH. CLOSE YOUR EYES. JIMMY, I'VE NEVER LIKED A MAN SO MUCH AS I DO YOU RIGHT NOW. LAUGHTER AFTER THE BREAK ` WE'LL LOOK INTO THE POPE'S RESIGNATION. THEY SAY A LIFE JACKET IS ALMOST GUARANTEED TO SAVE YOUR LIFE WHY DON'T PEOPLE WEAR THEM ? PEOPLE RESIGN FROM JOBS ALL THE TIME, BUT TODAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE POPE HAS THE WORLD'S MEDIA IN A FRENZY. REPORTERS HAVE DESCENDED ON THE VATICAN. HERE AT HOME, KIWIS WEREN'T TOO FAZED. SOMEBODY ELSE WILL COME UP AND DO A BETTER JOB. A BETTER JOB THAN HIM? YEAH, BUT HE IS TIRED, SO YOU CAN... HAVE SOME NEW BLOOD. THE SHOW WILL GO ON. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN THE NEXT POPE? SOMEONE MODERN. YEAH, A LITTLE BIT OF MODERN SOUNDS GOOD. SOMEONE WHO THINKS A BIT MORE, MAYBE, ABOUT CONTRACEPTION AND STUFF LIKE THAT THAN WHAT THE CATHOLIC FAITH DOES AT THE MOMENT. YOUNGER, PERHAPS. YOUNGER? YEAH, OF COURSE. YOUNGER THAN 85? YES. YOUNGER THAN 75? PROBABLY, YES. 25? GET US A 55-YEAR-OLD POPE. I THINK IT'S A GOOD SIGN THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO CHANGE ITSELF; TO BE MORE MODERN; TO BE MORE UP WITH THE TIMES. SO WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS ABOUT? PROFESSOR PETER LINEHAM'S A RELIGIOUS HISTORIAN FROM MASSEY UNIVERSITY. THERE'S BEEN QUITE A FRENZY. WHY? Were you shocked? Yes, because this was an infallible pope. The Pope has an authority which no one else possesses. So when he decides to resign, that is a pretty serious step. Sorely missing some part of the story? I think he simply didn't want to travel. The Pope has become a sort of showbiz figure who has to travel the world. 85-year-olds don't want to do that. There is a point we want to bow out. The conservative has been practically modern and saying he would like retirement. You say he is a bit of a celebrity. Does it really matter who gets the job? The institution is what it is, no matter who gets the job? Is certainly matters, Greg. This is very important. This is not just a figurehead. This is someone who has the authority to speak and to direct the world's Catholics how to behave on matters of morality and religion. Will we find a superstar Pope? One of the cardinals under the age of 80. One of those cardinals will select him. This Pope was just coming up to the qualifying age when he was elected. We saw a comment on the book before about contraception. Is that going to change? The Catholic Church has modernised quite a bit in terms of diplomacy and peacekeeping. That would get a big push from a less conservative Pope? The big change is that people are looking for could be brought about. The current Pope has handpicked the Cardinals for the past seven years. It is a bunch of very clearly conservative people. Who are the front-runners? That's a silly game. Bookies Are active, I do believe. Chancse of a black or Hispanic? Morwe than 50% THANKS FOR WATCHING. WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW. CAPTIONS BY RICHARD EDMUNDS AND PIPPA JEFFERIES.