Tonight on Sunday ` are we mollycoddling our kids? Are we being just too kind and cautious? Whoo! I would do everything in my power to protect my child. Good parenting or paranoia? I think there are real risks out there. We kill around two children a week in NZ. Should we bubble-wrap our kids? Sometimes shit happens. Whoo! Whoo! You did it! High five! Fun police? (BLOWS RASPBERRY) Are you afraid of being executed? They gambled with their lives... Make some money; quick money. ...and lost. And I thought, basically, I was invincible. Drug runners the Bali Nine ` So when someone pulls you out of your bed one night and says, 'Come on, Andrew ` it's time.' on death row, with time running out. 'Sorry' obviously just doesn't cut it. It's a bad situation. > Copyright TVNZ Access Services 2013 Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. We all know one; might even be one. A helicopter parent ` the over-parenting mum or dad, meddling excessively, offering advice, clearing the way, solving problems kids should deal with themselves and protecting to the point of paranoia. And it seems, despite the best intentions of the helicopter parents, their kids can end up as anxious, self-obsessed young adults who can't cope with life. Well, the good news is ` and we assume it is good news ` there's a revolution underway. Some parents now just want kids to be kids. Here's Peter Cronshaw. IDYLLIC MUSIC In the deep south of Fiordland, there is the pitter-patter of a new movement. (IMITATES SIREN) ACTION MUSIC SHOUTING, WHOOPING Hunter! This way! Wait for me! It's a revolution of sorts,... Whoo! (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) ...being led by Claire Maley-Shaw. What are we doing here? Just letting kids do what kids should do. Jump! < So, what are the rules here? < So, what are the rules here? The rules? Not many. Twice a week ` rain, hail or shine ` these preschoolers are allowed to escape the confines of their kindy and go feral. We still good, Reid? We still good, Reid? Yeah. You won't get me lost, will you? You won't get me lost, will you? No. I don't want to get lost. I don't want to get lost. No. Me either. YELLING Adventure; bush bashing; confidence. That's the ABC they're teaching here. Whoo! Whoo! We did it! We try not to wrap them up in cotton wool. What do we do if we get lost? We blow our whistles. Have you got`? I haven't got a whistle. Have you got`? I haven't got a whistle. I have. Ah. So that means you're in charge. Ah. So that means you're in charge. Yeah. We, as teachers, um, look out for risk, but we don't take risk away, um, from the children. So we're trying to teach them to, um, self-assess risk. Who's gonna go up the tree with me? Who's gonna go up the tree with me? < Me! Who's gonna go up the tree with me? < Me! Come on, Stefan! By giving kids a good dose of vitamin nature and exposing them to risk, Claire believes they will be better prepared for the future. I don't know how to get down here. There's more and more research out there showing that we need to get children out of the bubble wrap and back out into nature. < What happens if we don't? I think it's gonna be a very sad planet. It's a philosophy, a point of view that's got social commentators like Celia Lashlie grinning with joy. This is fantastic. We should be doing this` That should be compulsory in every early childhood centre across NZ. What is it? > Peanut butter for the wild animals. It's a dinosaur tooth. A dinosaur tooth? > A dinosaur tooth? > Yep. It's not. Dinosaurs don't live in Te Anau. We have to stop mollycoddling. Let them get dirty. Let them eat dirt. Let them go outside and play. Take the damn screens off them. LIGHT-HEARTED MUSIC It's hard for today's kids to imagine, but there was a time ` long before computers, PlayStations and Xboxes ` when we all attended the school of hard knocks. ARCHIVE: According to the experts, all this activity is beneficial to the child. It releases pent-up tensions, builds self confidence and provides healthy escapism from the pressures of modern living. Cotton-wool kids were as foreign to us as the term 'political correctness'. For a dentist's waiting room, this is a pretty lively place. Cotton-wool kids ` do they exist? What do you think? ALL: Yes. Would you guys consider your kids cotton-wool kids? No. No. Yes and no, depending on the scenario. Sally-Ann, Eleanor and Adrienne are three typical Kiwi mums who don't consider themselves overly risk averse, but admit stranger danger and the pace of life has had a big impact on the way they raise their kids. Are we wrapping our kids up in cotton wool? Yes. Well, we're dropping them places and we're picking them up, but we kind of have to, because of the way the community's developed, I suppose. I think, also, in this day and age, our lives are so busy. If my daughter was to break her arm or break her leg, it just has such a flow-on effect. Like, I'm a working mother. It just affects so many other things. So perhaps we are cotton-woolling them, but it's to make our lives easy; easier, maybe. Yeah? You make it sound like risk isn't convenient. Yeah, I think so. How do you learn if you don't take risks? It's good to make a mistake. You need to make mistakes, so you can learn from that and then grow and create and recreate. And if you don't, where are you gonna go? What are we here for? What are we here for? ALL: Fun! What are we here for? ALL: Fun! Righto. Scott Thelning is a maverick of sorts. Good stuff, boys. This Christchurch principal hit the headlines when he introduced bullrush to the playground earlier this year. On one hand, our curriculum says we want kids to be risk takers and give things a go, but on the other hand, everything's been shrunk down. You're not allowed to do anything. Don't climb trees. Don't play with sticks. Don't do anything. And I just think it's got a bit ridiculous and I think just we need to let kids go and have fun. YELLING We want to be memory creators, and I think that's our role. Fun police? (BLOWS RASPBERRY) Celebrated by some,... Oh, good tackle! > ...the return of bullrush is being viewed with caution by others. Any activity that promotes children becoming healthy and physically active should be encouraged. But we can set some monitoring around, uh, the boundaries of that, in terms of having some supervision to ensure that they're not going silly and crashing into each other and headbutting and, you know, causing, um, injury where it's not necessary. Ann Weaver heads a team of 10 charged with the task of keeping Kiwi kids safe. We kill around two children a week in NZ from a preventable injury, and we hospitalise around a classroom of children ` that's around 30-odd children ` a week` a day, sorry, uh, in this country. And I think those statistics are far too high and we could do better. SHOUTING, LAUGHING There's no denying bullrush is a risky game,... This could go very bad. ...but the only injury on this day was to a reporter's pride. CHEERING How are we gonna be building resilient people if they're not allowed to do anything? If we say 'don't, don't, don't, don't, don't', how do we allow them to be risk takers and to have resilience and be able to take the knocks and bounce back? And I don't mean physical knocks in bullrush; knocks in life. Few instincts are as sharp as a parent's concern for their child. But has parental protection grown out of proportion and turned to paranoia? We have children. They're vulnerable creatures. They do some dumb things. Sometimes there are accidents. You know, like... I'm not... Doesn't take away from the immense grief if you lose a child ` not in any way mitigating that. But, actually, sometimes shit happens. I think there are real, um, risks out there, and I don't think it's paranoia to be managing those risks with your kids. I want my babies to live and live and live and live; learn and learn and learn and learn. I would do everything in my power to protect my child. After the break ` has generation PlayStation lost the ability to differentiate between risk and stupidity? And what happens if we continue to deny our kids risk? Higher stats. Higher youth suicide. Higher entry to prison. Higher death by accident. It's a simple... More lost boys would be the general phrase. More lost boys. And` And more, um... you know, more heartache for us all. HORNS HONK UPBEAT GUITAR MUSIC If only more things in life were this simple, like our new $5 Cafestyle breakfast deal. Get two different menu items from our selected breakfast range for only $5. Breakfast at Wild Bean Cafe ` now being served. At OPSM, we use precision technology for a 3-D view of the retina, helping us better detect eye disease such as macular degeneration. Just one of the ways we look deeper. Talk to OPSM about an eye-health check-up today. UPBEAT MUSIC NZ prides itself on being a home for thrillseekers and adrenalin junkies; a place where sane people can experience the antics of madmen. NZ sells itself as being the capital of adventure tourism. And, really, if we're stopping the kids from getting out there when they're young, we're not really following through with that national image. Clive Neeson, a physicist by day, is the creator of the film Last Paradise. The Kiwi flick looks back at a time when the outdoors was regarded as the ultimate playground and a kid's imagination was the road map for fun. The purpose of Last Paradise was really to entice children to play in the wilderness. But getting that message out is easier said than done. It's kind of frustrating, in a way, that the film has been rated PG ` parental guidance ` in Australia, because there are scenes in it which may be seen as being risque for kids to watch. But it's all about enticing kids to get out there. So the very thing that you've made, uh, as a solution to the problem is bad. SIREN WAILS There is a school of thought that the pendulum has swung too far and bubble wrap is smothering young kids and killing young men. Removing risk, it stops him actually learning. It's like a muscle. You go to the gym for the first time and pull weights, you can only pull a certain amount. You keep going every day or regularly, you end up being able to bench-press quite a lot. He's got a risk muscle, and it's an action and consequence. So, um, he's got to learn to exercise it. What we're seeing again and again in this generation is the first time he makes that decision, he tries something, he runs an orange light and there's a car coming the other way, and he crashes and kills his three best mates. That's the issue ` when he does... if he hasn't used his risk muscle all through his childhood, he suddenly gets free at 17, he can get away from his mother, and he drives for the first time, he makes some appalling decisions and he dies or he goes to prison. If you subscribe to the theory risk is a muscle, few have given it a bigger workout than Steve Gurney. Jeez, I would have thought, with all your near-death experiences` Jeez, I would have thought, with all your near-death experiences` (SCOFFS) Not that many! ...you wouldn't mind a bit of bubble wrap now. ...you wouldn't mind a bit of bubble wrap now. BOTH CHUCKLE Well, it feels wrong. Dirt is an essential food group ` you've got to eat it, you know? (CHUCKLES) You've got to bite the dust now and then to learn. That's how we learn. Gurney is a firm believer that life begins on the edge of your comfort zone. It's made him one of NZ's best extreme athletes, but it also very nearly cost him his life on more than one occasion. I've done a whole lot of dumb things, and I think, in many of those cases, like a crash I had in the Sahara Desert ` I smacked full-on into a rock. Now, I remember recalling those times as a child when I'd crashed my trolley and the things I learned and how to relax and just turn your head a wee bit and adjust so that you're not gonna... well, you're gonna minimise the impact. And, um, I think kids today are missing out on that. As if his point needed proving... There is a classic example of de-evolution. We're gonna end up, like, big jelly tub sort of people who can't walk. (CHUCKLES) You know? (SCOFFS) Risk has always been a part of adventure sport. But according to Gurney, the bubble wrap brigade have taken their toll. Now the races that are still out there are generally sanitised. You know, they've all` had all the sharp corners bubble-wrapped, and they've had all the danger fenced off. And so we're... I'm generalising here, but we're breeding a competitor who is stupid; who doesn't know how to manage risk; doesn't know how to recognise it and then take the appropriate action. It's a worldwide phenomenon. PlayStation, Youtube and Jackass have given rise to a new breed of kid who struggles to differentiate between risk and stupidity. LAUGHS: He landed right on his face! Every day, mothers of adolescent boys in Australia and NZ read, um, newspaper articles or watch television news items about boys dying. We read about it; end result, we want to stop the boy. So we now become overprotective. But you have to let him go. He's got to learn himself. He's got to develop the resilience. And` And` And they're not learning it early enough. 'Course we're not gonna stop all accidents or all deaths. We aren't God, you know? It's a nonsense to operate from that premise. It's just what happens. But Kidsafe is urging caution. When it comes to preventable injuries, we have one of the worst records in the OECD. A classroom a day are hospitalised as a result of a preventable injury, and two a week are killed. Compared to other countries, NZ are very under-regulated, and hence why, I think, we see the high statistics that we do in preventable injuries. Behind the tree. But back in the wilds of Fiordland, cotton wool, bubble wrap and more regulation aren't seen as the antidote to accidents. Lay him to rest. The hedgehog's gonna be dead forever. He will be dead forever. My right. He will be dead forever. My right. And my grandma. And Gabby's grandma. My grandma didn't die. < You come here, you bring your kids here. < You come here, you bring your kids here. Yes. < They can climb trees. < They can climb trees. Yes. But you can't climb trees at the kindy. But you can't climb trees at the kindy. No. (CHUCKLES) < Can't be done. < Can't be done. No. The red tape's huge. Yes. Yes, but` Yes. Yes, but` < You're swimming in it. Yes. Yes, but` < You're swimming in it. Yes. The irony is there are fewer accidents out here than there are in the confines of the kindy. In all the time we've been doing this programme, um, I've filled in two incident reports. One was when, um, a child tripped over some barbed wire in some long grass, and the other time was when they scraped their knee on some bark. I filled in far more incident reports at kindergarten than what I do here. Call it scary, call it sad, but Claire Maley-Shaw sees us as the biggest risk to this programme. My biggest fear is if I say something that somebody's gonna grab hold of and they're gonna stop us from doing it. MAN: He's dead as a doornail. Can I hold it? BOYS: I wanna hold it! < So that's the risk for you? < So that's the risk for you? That's the risk for me ` that somebody says, 'You can't do it.' ACTION MUSIC < And that terrifies you? < And that terrifies you? It terrifies me. I would hate this to stop. (LAUGHS) (CHUCKLES) Love it. It raises the question, though, of course ` how come kids are allowed to climb a tree in the bush, but not at kindy? Well, it's about ratios. Out in the bush, it can be one parent watching over two kids; back at the kindy, one person for every 10 kids. Well, next, time is running out for the Bali Nine ` impetuous young Aussies who did something stupid and will have to pay dearly. They bring him to a secluded place like this island ` no friends; no families; alone. He faces a firing squad ` sheer horror. And then he is shot dead. Hi again. How would you cope? Banged up in an Indonesian jail, waiting to be taken from your cell to face the firing squad ` no warning; they just come for you in the dead of night. For two young Aussies, that's been the agony every night for the past eight years, and time is running out. OK, it was a stupid, brash thing to do ` caught trying to smuggle heroin out of Bali to make a quick buck. But do they deserve to die? Here's Mike Willesee. BLEAK MUSIC Martin Stephens ` uh, life sentence; Si Yi Chen ` life sentence; Myuran Sukumaran ` death sentence; Matthew Norman ` life sentence; uh, myself ` I'm in the centre ` death sentence; Tan Nguyen ` life sentence; Michael Czugaj ` life sentence; Scott Rush ` life sentence; and Renae Lawrence ` 20-year sentence. MUSIC CONTINUES In 2005, nine young Australians were caught trying to smuggle 8 kilos of heroin out of Bali. It was bound for Australian streets, to be sold, shot up and, for some, to kill. But those nine weren't thinking of that. They were thinking of the money. They were thinking only of themselves. You think, 'Oh, it's not gonna happen to me. It happens to other people. I'm lucky.' Looking for adventure. I'd never been out of the country before, and I thought, 'Yeah, why not?' I was young, um, and I thought, basically, I was invincible. THUNDER RUMBLES Being banged up in Bali is no paradise. In Kerobokan Prison, the days pass slowly. You wake up, you bathe, you shave, you make coffee ` the day happens. And, the next day, you wake up and you're still here. For the Bali Nine, only the date changes. We spent four days in their world. Two are on death row; the other seven face most of the rest of their lives here, like Scott Rush. He's barely coping. 26 now; 18 when he was caught. And he's desperate. You want to be rescued? > You want to be rescued? > We have to be rescued. 27-year-old Matthew Norman is doing better. He was a 19-year-old from Newcastle when he found himself facing the death penalty. At any moment, you could be taken out and just executed. Si Yi Chen is 30. An only child, adored by his parents and full of promise ` but that was then. It's a bad situation. > It's a bad situation. > (EXHALES) Yes. Then there's Michael Czugaj. < How old were you when you were arrested? Uh, I was 19 at the time I was arrested. He'd just left school and had never been overseas. Sentenced to life, like Martin Stephens, Tan Nguyen, Renae Lawrence ` her sentenced later reduced to 20 years. And then the ringleaders: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran. Chan was 20 and cocky. Sukumaran was 24 and defiant. The sentence for them is death, and execution is due any time. These two men ` Chan and Sukumaran ` may be taken away tonight and shot and killed. They don't know when the hour is coming. And it's been like that for more than eight years. This year so far, four men have been executed. < Tell me what happens. Um, at, sort of, like, 12 o'clock at night, you know, they come in ` a whole bunch of guards ` and they pull you out of your cell. And then` I know that they won't do it in Bali. They take you to an island. Um... I don't know, but you can be asked to be blindfolded. I don't know if it's... you have to be. And then, um,... yeah, they shoot you. Sukumaran grew up in Auburn in Sydney's inner west. He was one of the leaders. The only thing I was really thinking is, you know, to make some money ` quick money. Down the rung were the couriers. Scott Rush was on the verge of a bright future, but had money problems. I was halfway through my applications to go to the RAAF. Um, all I had left to go back to was my fitness exam, which I would have passed, like, easy. How did you get involved in this in the first place? I had two good friends at high school who were both Australians of Vietnamese descent. And one of those friends introduced me to his friend. Uh, from the discussions that we had, um, they were` they wanted to find a particular sort of, uh, person. I think they were looking for Caucasians. I just knew one of the other couriers, and they put me in contact with someone a little bit higher up. They asked me if I wanted to come, and I said, 'Yeah, sure.' How old were you? > How old were you? > I was 20 years old. Did you have any experience in dealing drugs? > This would be the first time. Just, when you are in this stressful moment and you try to look for some quick cash, you just... do it. HEAVY ELECTRONIC MUSIC Down here is the Melasti Hotel, where the Bali Nine checked in. And it was in this hotel that four of them had kilos of heroin strapped to their bodies with adhesive tape. But what these young criminals didn't know was that they'd been under surveillance in Australia and they were under surveillance here. < How strong is your memory about being in those rooms and strapping heroin to yourself? Uh,... very strong, actually, those memories, yeah. Can, sort of, remember pretty much every detail leading up to the arrest, and... My legs were shaking at the time, as it was being put on me, and... I, sort of, thought, 'Shit, what am I doing?' I said, 'Look, I don't feel good about this.' Uh... You know, 'What would happen to me` What would happen if I, um, just wanted to get out of it?' And the reply was, uh, 'You're gonna get hurt.' Sitting in the cab going to the airport, the funny thing is it never crossed my mind about being arrested. In the same cab was Scott Rush. Scott was trying to help me chill out a bit; calm down. When we got out of the cab at the airport, I kept saying to Scott, you know, 'They're on to us. They're on to us.' They checked in, went through immigration and briefly thought they'd made it. Do you remember your reaction when you were arrested? > Uh, yes. Yes, I do. Uh... I didn't burst out crying. Uh... My mind was, kind of, you know, picking around what was happening, and I was trying to deal with that. MEN SPEAK INDISTINCTLY 19. < MAN: 19? Renae Lawrence, Michael Czugaj, Scott Rush and Martin Stephens were all caught at the airport. Meanwhile, back at the Melasti Beach hotel,... There was a whole bunch of people that came to the hotel, and then, um... Oh, like, 'You know it's the police? They said it was the police,' and stuff, and I didn't believe it. When Andrew Chan was arrested at Denpasar Airport, he was cockier than the others; confident because, unlike his couriers, police would find no drugs on him. When I was first arrested, I was, um, probably, uh, a bit jovial. Um, you know, I was... basically, uh, clowning around. And, you know, I thought to myself, really, you know, I could probably get myself out of this jam, just like I've gotten myself out of a lot of jams in my lifetime. But, um, it was probably, maybe, two or three days into it that, you know, came to the realisation that reality had hit. Tell me about that. Oh, I was taken to a remote place, and I thought, oh, you know, 'Maybe I'm gonna get shot over here.' And I thought, 'Oh no,' you know, 'This could be the end.' And they placed me in a cell ` this, uh, real dark, gloomy cell. And I thought to myself, well, you know, 'No one really knows I'm here, so... 'it's probably best off that I probably nick myself.' You thought you would kill yourself? You thought you would kill yourself? Yeah. I mean, I thought I'd come to a stage ` instead of, you know, having that, sort of, um, embarrassment that you'd placed upon your family. Um,... I guess I felt as though I didn't want that and thought to myself, 'Well, you know, really, knows I'm here, so I might as well. There's probably no point.' Actually I became suicidal, and that's... very hard for me, because I'm... I had a very strong mind, and I was a strong character. I was, uh... I was picked to be a prefect at school, but, you know, I did have a naughty side to me as well, so, um, that was taken away from me, because I was caught smoking. But, um, yeah, I had that... I had that good will about me, and, um, so I didn't expect to,... you know, crumble. Well, regardless of what her boy's done, a mother in Sydney is hurting. She's grieving. That's in a moment. (SPEAKS CHINESE LANGUAGE) I mean, you can't just say sorry. That doesn't work. I mean, you can't just say sorry. That doesn't work. Nah, look, 'sorry' obviously just doesn't cut it. You know, I could sit here for the next 10 years and say sorry, but it just doesn't make up for what I did do and how much I did hurt them and what I did put them through. It was dumb, and in a country where you pay with your life ` a quick smuggling run to Indonesia for a quick $5000 each. Then the luck ran out for the Bali Nine. INDISTINCT PA ANNOUNCEMENT It seemed like a good idea at the time, but the Bali Nine have now spent eight years in Kerobokan Prison ` a place well known to Australians for the Bali bombers and Schapelle Corby. For the Bali Nine, it's been a wild ride through the courts, and the scoreboard currently reads one 20-year sentence, six sentenced to life and two sentenced to death. ROOSTER CROWS Condemned man Andrew Chan has turned to God. When you were found guilty and given the death sentence, what was your reaction? You know, I kind of just sat there, and I went, you know, 'God, I ask you to... 'I ask you to... to free me,' and, you know, 'How are you gonna do that if I've been sentenced to death?' And it was at that precise moment I just felt as though God, you know, he'd spoken to me really clearly and said, 'Look, I did answer your prayer; 'I just didn't answer it in the way that you expected.' Are you afraid of being executed? Definitely. Uh, something looms in your mind ` you know, number one, you know, to be, um, departed of your loved ones. And you, kind of, feel the hurt, and you feel the pain of... how would your family feel? Um, you know, especially my mother, or especially my father. How do they feel about that? Does that hurt? Definitely does. You know, the possibility of never seeing your parents ever again. (SPEAKS CHINESE LANGUAGE) I mean, you can't just say sorry. That doesn't work. What`? I mean, you can't just say sorry. That doesn't work. What`? Nah, look, 'sorry' obviously just doesn't cut it. Um, you know, I could sit here, you know, for the next 10 years and say sorry, but it just doesn't make up for what I did do and how much I did hurt them and what I did put them through. Um, it's about what I choose to do with my life now and what I am doing. Do you think you'll see them again? Do you think you'll see them again? Uh,... maybe. Probably not, but, you know, that's reality. In Kerobokan, Andrew Chan is a model prisoner. So, let's look at, um, verses 10... During the day he takes Bible classes and teaches English. At night he's locked up in Kerobokan's version of death row; a maximum-security jail within a jail called The Tower. Andrew, do you know the protocol for execution? > Andrew, do you know the protocol for execution? > Um, I have heard about it ` that, uh, they take you out of your cell, uh, they take you to a pretty remote place and, uh, they place a target; um, paint it up on your shirt. And, uh, they've got about 10 soldiers they line up. Uh, nine of them carry blanks; one of them carries the real bullet. And, um, they, kind of, give the order, and they fire away. So, when someone pulls you out of your bed one night and says, 'Come on, Andrew ` it's time,' how will you react? Personally couldn't tell you. Um, I could turn around and say, maybe, right now, uh,... probably kicking and screaming; I could turn around and say, maybe, I could be at peace. How much do you think about it? Um, it definitely looms in your mind. It definitely looms in my mind. It'd be, uh, a day that` that... obviously you're sitting there and you dread it. And... you're questioning yourself ` 'Has it come to this point?' At his trial, Scott Rush was sentenced to life, but later that sentence was overturned and increased to the death penalty. He was only 19. You were very very young. How did you live with that? I actually... took... anything, uh, medic` um,... anything medical, narcotic-wise, that I could get my hands on, just to, um... You medicated yourself any way you could? > True. Thought my life was over. And then... Uh... And then I knew what it was like to... be in the shoes of, uh, Myuran Sukumaran or Andrew Chan. And... You know, we` we may have had our problems in the past or whatever, but at the end of the day, we're all Aussies, and it's Australian to help each other out. And... The death penalty is... not Australian. OK, your death sentence was removed, but now you have a life sentence. And I think of that as a death sentence just as equally ` just takes a lot longer to die. And often I think,... 'Would a death sentence be better off for a person like me,' who... just, you know, can't` I don't have the... energy to,... uh,... you know, keep myself going in here; to support myself. I'm not strong enough. Do you have dreams? Maybe of better things? (CHUCKLES RUEFULLY) Dreams. I look forward to dreaming every night, because it takes me away from this place. Si Yi Chen has a life sentence, but for 18 months he also faced the death penalty. Did you dream about this prospect of standing before a firing squad? > Once. I was actually... stupid enough to ask, 'Are they gonna shoot me with AK-47?' (CHUCKLES) Because I'm a, you know... I'm a war game fanatic. (CHUCKLES) Do you know how much difference it makes when the bullet hits you? > Do you know how much difference it makes when the bullet hits you? > Well, I know, if it's hollow-point, my brain just explodes. (CHUCKLES) Chen is an only son. In prison, he runs a small business making jewellery. His mum and dad were in Bali for his trial. When you do something like you did, you hurt a lot of people ` you've already said your mum and dad. How much have you hurt them? > Um,... He can't? Why not? > (SIGHS) It's a bad situation. > It's a bad situation. > (EXHALES EMOTIONALLY) It is. Jab, straight, jab, straight, hook... Myuran Sukumaran, like Andrew Chan, is a model prisoner. Jab, straight, hook, yeah? When he's not running classes, he's a self-taught painter who also teaches and mentors others. No, mix here. He's respected, and he's remorseful. Painting is his release. You feel productive and creative, and you don't feel like you've wasted your life so badly. Yeah. It gives you hope for the future, I guess. Hope? Hope? Yeah. What does hope mean to you? Hope means, uh,... you know, maybe one day I get back and see my family ` go back to Australia. Do you ever think through the process of what would happen if they came to get you? Yeah. Uh, I try not to think about it, but sometimes it just` sort of just comes up in your mind. < Is it realistic when it's in your mind? Very real. Talking about execution ` is that something you allow yourself to think about? > No, I don't go there. I don't think about that. I` I don't want to go there. I won't go there. It's not going to happen. It's been said that a mother can't really love all her children equally. > In this situation that you find yourself in, how would you describe now your love for that son? Oh my God. More than ever. He's my eldest son. And he's so thoughtful, and he's so loving. I can't explain in words, but... You painted a beautiful picture of your mother, which we have here. When you looked into your mother's eyes as you painted them, what did you see? Sadness. What else do you see in her face? Strength, maybe. Strength? Strength? Yeah. She's had to endure a lot in her life, and... now she's enduring this situation. He sees strength in you. > He sees strength in you. > (SNIFFS) INDISTINCT PA ANNOUNCEMENT < So, you dream often? Maybe every day? Yeah. I try not to, but it` it does come back. ROOSTER CROWS < What is the dream? Yeah, about being led out and... being blindfolded and being executed. So, anything you'd like to say? Again, I'd just like to apologise for my actions; about what I did eight years... eight years ago. Please give us a second chance, I guess, for me and Andrew. Even accepting that clemency almost certainly means you spend the rest of your life in this prison? Yeah. You're not gonna walk out of here. But at least inside here I'm doing something good with my life, you know? I'm not... ruining other people's lives. So that, sort of, gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment. That's good. That's good. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Good one. Well, that's something, isn't it? That attitude is something in that situation. So, every day is possibly their last day. As we go to air tonight, they are still alive. We'll be back in a moment. So, let's take a look ahead to next week now. The greatest gift of all: the gift of life itself, and gift-wrapped for a complete stranger. It's a story of unparalleled generosity. It's been a dream for so long to do something like this. Jill Buckley is perfectly healthy,... Not nervous at all? Not nervous at all? No. No. I can't quite believe it myself. ...but she's about to have major surgery. < So, no last-minute regrets at all? < So, no last-minute regrets at all? No. No. No. I feel, um, yeah, even more ready to do this. Yeah. Surgeons are going to remove one of Jill's kidneys and give it to a very sick woman, and hopefully Jill's kidney will safe the life of a total stranger. And have people tried to persuade you not to do this? > And have people tried to persuade you not to do this? > Um, a few people have, yes. Yeah. In NZ we have about 600 or 700 people who are on our waiting list, and every year we perform about 120 transplants. So each year the list gets longer. And getting a new kidney can be a matter of life or death. Does it matter that you won't know who the recipient is? > Does it matter that you won't know who the recipient is? > No. No. And that's quite good. They've told me that they're a good person, so that's enough. She is absolutely remarkable. That's next week's Sunday. And that is our show for tonight. Thanks for joining us. Do check out our Facebook page. We do love to hear your comments. Kia pai to wiki. Have a great week. Nga mihi nui, hei kona.