# I'm spinning around. # Move out of my way. # I know you're feeling me cos you like it like this. # Tonight on 20/20 ` Kylie ` 45, single and back in the charts. I don't know how many epiphanies you have in your life, but I had one. She talks candidly to 20/20 about life, love and cancer. I just felt like there's more to do. I'm not finished. Also, we talk to men about domestic violence. I call it awareness and education before it becomes accident and emergency. Because they might just have some answers. If you can get these use-to-be shitheads to work with shitheads. Sounds crazy, I know, but we can get through to them. Kia ora. I'm Sonya Wilson. We've done many stories on 20/20 about family violence. We've seen the women and children who've suffered at the hands of family members and friends. Tonight, though, we're going to hear from the men. Why? Well, it's mostly the en who've committed these acts, and the stats are getting worse. This is, of course, a problem that desperately needs to be solved. Emma Keeling met a former perpetrator who believes it's men like him who can help bring an end to this Kiwi curse. It's my fault. You know, because I'm not getting out there telling more people. There's not more of us. Um,... you know, we've been there, we've done that. You know, like, give us the opportunity to go and help other men. He's been violence-free for 20 years, but nearly every day, Vic Tamati sees the dark side of NZ. How bad is family violence in this country, in your opinion? How bad is family violence in this country, in your opinion? Oh, we're fucked, eh? If this carries on the way that it is, you know? Um,... it's normal. GENTLE MUSIC How can you change a man? A man who's this violent, this damaged? How do we stop the violence? 'They're fuckin' wife-beaters, kiddie beaters,' you know. 'They're not worth shit.' But we are. Today, Vic's at Waikeria Prison, near Te Awamutu. But he's not here to talk to the prisoners. I grew up as a victim of violence, and then what was done to me, I, um, took it as my beliefs. Then, when I had a wife and children, violated them as well. Vic doesn't just speak to the bad guys. He's often invited by different groups across the country. Because you never know who might need help. It's not just the ones you look at in the street and think, 'Ah.' You know? Your taxi driver, your bus driver, you know, you neighbour, your doctor, your dentist, your accountant. Why is it important to tell your story, this story? This is how we keep them safe. This is how we do it. I mean, as long as he's not safe, no one is. And we haven't been safe for a long, long time in this country. Vic says it's time for men to step up. A big ups to the women's refuge, because they've taken the lead on this. We men are just 60 years slow. They've been keeping the women and the babies safe from us... men. Well, now it's time for the men to stand up, take responsibility and do something about it. CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC Vic has a simple explanation for our high levels of violence. If you don't know what you don't know, you'll always do what you've always done. And you'll always get what you've always got. He's had to overcome decades of being first victim, then abuser. What did love mean to you? It was getting a hiding, you know, Cos that's what my dad said. You know, 'This is the reason I'm giving you this hiding, it's because of alofa.' You know, 'This is my love for you.' MAN: Come here, you. As a kid, Vic cut the lawn with a machete. But if he displeased his father in any way... Even though he hit me with the flat of the blade, the, um, sharpened edge cut me ` cut my arms and cut my legs, you know? It... was normal. And it was everywhere. At church, at school, caned, strapped. And we all` We all got it. When he had a family of his own, he vowed not to do the same. Instead, the beatings he dished out he saw as discipline, not violence. # I was right, and I was right. # I didn't drop-kick them like my dad done to me. I'd humiliate them. I'd whack them with a hose, cos I thought a hose, you know, a little length of hose was better than using a machete. It's only hose. You're not gonna get the same fear of scared of getting your head chopped off with a machete. It's just a hose. Makes sense, eh? Well, it fucking made sense to me. (CRIES) < At the time you didn't think, 'This is not right?' Um, yeah. I kind of like, um, satisfied myself, justified myself that it wasn't as bad, yeah. Now he knows how wrong he was, and that's why he helps men just like him. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) It all started when he was asked to be in an anti-violence ad. My wife, my children ` my victims. I mean, how sad is that? One of my daughters said to me, 'Dad, you have to.' And I says, 'No, I don't.' She goes, 'You do.' And I says, 'Why? Why do I have to do it?' She said, 'Cos no one else is.' For six years, Vic's worked for The Campaign for Action on Family Violence. People write in to the website, often with nowhere else to turn. READS: I am basically losing it. I can't handle my wife, can't handle my child. 'I want to start bashing them. I'm giving up, getting messed up ideas. 'I can't control it. I need help. I don't know where to start.' Desperate, eh? Desperate, eh? Mm. Vic also travels the country telling his story to different groups. < So, March, you're going to Trentham, Hawke's Bay, Waikeria Prison, Auckland Pasifika... < Tauranga. < There's a hui. Cool, eh? Cool, eh? Yeah. Nah, it's not that cool. It's not cool that you're that busy, that you're needed that much, but at least you're there. It's easy to judge when you see the horrific stories in the media. But Vic sees what's hiding below the surface. They don't see someone that needs help, you know. 'He's just a fucking arsehole,' you know. 'Lock him up. Throw away the key.' You know, 'He's done it before.' Well, he's done it before cos he doesn't know what else to do. Who the fuck was there to help him? You know? It was the same with me. So how do you turn a violent man into a safe man? Coming up, men show us how change is possible. So, for me to look at another man with tears in my eyes, saying, 'Help me,' that was really hard. 1 GENTLE MUSIC It's not talked about enough, but it's everywhere, littered through NZ society. Violence. MUSIC CONTINUES So how do we stop it? We've come to Greymouth in the South Island to ask the men themselves. Are there many places like that in NZ where men and their families can come to? I know of a couple. Um,... but, um, not something like this. We're working with Trish ` she picks up the ones that nobody wants to know. Trish has been teaching parent education for 20 years. That's enough of the carrot. Her focus is keeping kids safe. She helped set this house up as a place people could come to at any time. Many have come to Greymouth to escape their old environments. I wanted a place where it would be safe, where you weren't judged, where it didn't matter what had happened, it was OK; we could begin to sort it. And one of my mantras is 'we can sort everything but a dead body'. It's the only think you can't sort. They get given the tools and the skills to help themselves and take that responsibility. And they then have a support network of other men so that you minimise that chance of them slipping up. (STRUMS TUNE) Vic visits two to three times a year. He's probably non-judgemental. He probably wel` He loves them, where they are. He doesn't pull any punches. He'll say it like it is. Jamie. Jamie. I'm Vic. Nice to meet you, mate. Vic often counsels couples together. So the answer is not to take the man away from the family? No, it is. You take him out. Keep them safe, take him away. To heal the past and create a safe future, he reckons that eventually, you must work with the family together. Because the dynamics of a angry man has impacted on everybody. So they've got a bit of your violence, you know, as the victims. They've picked up something from it. So a lot of work has to be done with them as well. CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC No one knows that better than John and wife Leighanne. I found that I had the right to lay a hand or beat her into submission. So... And you know, growing up as a little kid, that's what I saw as love. Did you understand whether it was right or wrong? It was just, like, an everyday thing, so I found it normal. They've been married for 28 years. 17 of those, John's spent in jail. I left him many times over our relationship. I was full of resentment, and, you know, it led to hate and drug abuse and, you know, because there was stuff I did for him while he was in prison that was just, you know, just... just led me to just some really horrible places. My belief why she's still with me? It's because she's scared of me. My belief. And I think there's some truth to that. You know, because I started to believe that he could find me anywhere in the country. Are you still frightened now? No. No, I'm not. The stuff` The work that I've done in the short time I've been here is kind of` I've reached a place of serenity. It took their eldest son to make John see just how destructive their life was. He broke down in front of me. He begged me to go to rehab. And that was the turning point. Kia ora, my bro. Kia ora, my bro. Kia ora, brother. Here in Greymouth they were finally given the tools to change. Good to see you. But this journey will take a lifetime. They know that, and so does AJ. I've always been looking for the big fight. You know, the superstar fight. Well, I've got it. Here it is right in front of me. All he's known is violence. Not so long ago, AJ nearly killed girlfriend Ashleigh. I was, um, strangling her. I had pretty much both my hands around her throat and strangling her. OMINOUS MUSIC He was terrified she would leave him. I was, like, 'Fuck, well, if you're gonna go, nobody else can have you. 'So I'll just take you out, and then I'll take me out. Sorted. Problem over.' Did you think you were gonna die, Ashleigh? Yep. There was no doubt in my mind that I was. It was my time. AJ wanted to change but he didn't know how to ask for help. TENSE MUSIC He found it in a police cell. I remember sitting there thinking, 'I don't want this life anymore,' you know. 'I'm tired of this, sick of this shit.' This guy just walked in, and he was, like, 'What are you going to do about this, mate?' I pretty much looked up, started crying and said, 'I don't want this.' And he said, 'Well, we'll get this started. Get your bail, 'and we'll take you to where I think you need to go.' Ashleigh, are you worried about him relapsing? Ashleigh, are you worried about him relapsing? Every day I'm worried. Every time we have, like, a little argument now, I get worried that it's going to escalate, but it never does because we've got the tools that we've learnt from our groups to control that. But there's always that, um, that feeling in the back of my mind, like, 'How am I going to get out of this? What am I going to do?' Yeah. And I think it's always going to be there, but it will get easier and easier. To undo all the damage, Vic says the 'stop violence' programmes offered must be longer. I'd done 38 years of violence. What the fuck is 40 weeks gonna do? All family violence programmes ` they should be three years. One year to uncover, one year to discover, and a third year to recover. Everyone's gathered to hear Vic tell his story. Every man, person that I've met in my life had all lied to me about what it meant to be a man. 'Smash him, bro.' 'Fuckin' take him out.' 'You can take him bro.' 'Nah, he's just a fucking pussy.' All lied to me. Every man had lied to me. In his job he sometimes has to relive it two to three times a day. All those things that happened to you when you were a kid ` that's not your fault. That's not your fault. Growing up, you're supposed to be loved, cared for, hugged, kissed, dressed, clothed, learnt, taught, educated. Eh? But for one reason or another, I guess we never got it. But we got a lot of other things. How do you keep going? How do you keep doing it? Well, it's not about me, eh. It's not about me. Um, it's about my wife and my kids, um, the people that I've hurt. Yeah. I've always seen it as my penance for the shit that I've done. Men have to say to their mates, 'What you're doing is not ok.' So at this point, family violence is still very much women's business. And it shouldn't be. Men's violence, anyway, has to be men's business. And someone said, 'How do we know we're winning?' And I just said, 'We know we're winning when there's no women around the table.' # I'm... # waiting... # Vic wants to see places set up where men can go for help and an army of men like him out in the community. I call it awareness and education before it becomes accident and emergency That's where the difference is gonna be, is if you can, um, get these shitheads or used-to-be-shitheads to work with other shitheads, you know. Sounds crazy I know, but, um, we can get through to them. Vic give us a chance to work with him, you know? And then by the time he gets to court and he's still an arsehole, throw him in the can. You know? If he still wants to be that` that tough man, well, let him go and be with the tough boys. UPBEAT MUSIC Is it warm with your wetsuit on? Today Vic's enjoying time with his grandkids. MUSIC CONTINUES He knows he's lucky to even still be with his family. # I'm not sure if we ever really knew. # But the cycle of violence ` what he calls his curse ` has stopped with him. Vic's children didn't want to appear on camera, but his daughter did write something for us to read to you. READS: 'There was an unhealthy fear that I had when I was young. 'The mental and emotional abuse is what impacted on me the most. 'I witnessed his violence toward my mum, brothers and sisters, and I was scared of my dad. 'Dad has come a long way since those days. I am very proud of my dad for having the courage 'to tell his story, our story. It takes a strong person to share a private, dark part of their life. 'We are very proud of the work he does and the man he has become.' Your family's very supportive of what you do. Yep. I'm lucky. And I guess that's what I want to get through to other men, that they can be this lucky too. You know, they've just gotta change, just gotta start that journey of, you know, giving up the old ways. Have you forgiven yourself for what you've done? Next question. Um... One day. You know how we have Monday, Tuesday? Well, there's another day called One Day, and we'll get there. # See you tomorrow, yeah. # If you need to speak to anybody or are feeling unsafe yourself, we have put the contact details of several agencies on our Facebook page. The women's refuge also have an emergency number, which is... or you can call 111. Next up on the show, we talk to the girl from Ramsey St, who's all grown up and back in the charts. 'It was my life.' 'It was my life.' KYLIE LAUGHS 'I wore those socks. I had my hair permed like she did.' 'I wore those socks. I had my hair permed like she did.' Oh wow. Well, when you say something like that to me, it's just... It's so touching. DOOR SLAMS She's in a violent relationship, and she's doing her best to hide it. Her mum, her aunties, friends and neighbours. They all know something's going on, but no one's saying anything. It's hard to know what to do. Ange. Are you OK? But the sooner you reach out to someone living with family violence, the sooner they can get help. Find out more at... Welcome back. She's the pop queen who rivals Madonna ` an Aussie entertainer who, 25 years on in the business, can still pull off a pair of hot pants. Yes, we love her, but the question is, does she loves us? You know, in all these years, she's done a mere handful of television interviews with NZ journalists, so when Hannah Ockelford got a chance to meet Kylie in Sydney, her reticence to come down under was top of the question list. # I'm spinning around. # Move out of my way. # I know you're feeling me cos you like it like this.' She's been around and around for more than a quarter of a century. But rarely has this pop princess graced our shores or spoken to the likes of me. Am I right in saying I'd be one of the few NZ journalists that get to meet you? Yeah. Yeah. Have you got something against us? Yeah. Have you got something against us? No! (LAUGHS) (LAUGHS) No, not at all. (CHUCKLES) Well, we know the Aussies like you, and we know that the Brits like you. Do you know how much the Kiwis like you? Well, actually, the first time I` I went, which was doing a show, I went through passport, uh, control, and the guys says` looks at my details, and he says, 'You took your time.' I was, like, 'I know! I'm so sorry! It's taken me forever to get here!' I know. Now it's 20/20 face to face with a face that's brought a smile, a dance move and a tear to so many. I love you. I love you. I love you too. All beginning on that Aussie soap that, if we're honest, felt a bit like real life. So, I was telling a couple of people that I was getting the chance to meet you, and the comments I got were, 'I cried when she broke up with Jason. It was, like, my life.' (LAUGHS) (LAUGHS) And I had a perm like she did. (LAUGHS) And I had a perm like she did. Oh wow. Well, when you say something like that to me, it's so touching. So much has changed since way back then. I'm proud that I'm still here. I was proud when I had my second hit so that they couldn't officially call me a one-hit wonder. KYLIE MINOGUE'S 'LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT' This Grammy, Aria and Brit award winner has completed 10 world tours, achieved worldwide record sales of more than 70 million, and, in the UK alone, has had 46 chart-topping hits. # Thought that I was going crazy. < You've been described as 'single, sexy and strong.' Is that how you feel? Um,... well, the 'single' part I can say I do. Sexy... Well, the 'sexy' part, I can say you do. Well, sometimes, I suppose. Um, and strong ` uh, I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah. At least, I would say I feel strong even in recognising my weakness. Um, and` and the first single ` Into the Blue ` amazingly says that very succinctly. I didn't write it, but the lyrics just` it's like they` they fell from the heavens and they were meant to be. I was meant to sing them. # When I got my back up against the wall, # don't need no one to rescue me. # Cos I ain't waiting up for no miracle. # Yeah, tonight I'm running free. # Into The Blue is her just-released single, produced at a time of great change for now 45-year-old Kylie Minogue. You've just moved on from your partner. Yes. I had, uh, almost five years with my boyfriend, and, yeah, we broke up last year. So I guess I was trying to find some peace with that and make sense with it, saying, well, '2013 was` was just not easy.' You know, I don't think 2013 was easy for a lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people said that to me. So I felt not entirely alone. And I spent, uh, New Year's Eve into 2014 at home alone in my house in London. I've never done that before. I've never done that before. Me too, Kylie. I feel in great company. And I felt quite rock and roll, because people were, like, 'What? You're nog going`? 'You didn't do anything?' I said, 'No. I didn't wanna go to a party 'because you're meant to go to a party.' I actually was insanely but quietly excited about reflecting on 2013. How I dealt with it, what changes happened, dealing with my sadness and saying, 'You know what? It's all been working towards 2014 and` and, um, here we are, in this year, 'and it's all about moving forward.' # Two hearts are beating together. # I'm in love. # I'm in love. Is it hard to find love when you're a pop star? It's, like, um, Rita Hayworth famously said. Didn't she say, 'They go to bed with Gilda and they wake up with me'? Some famous line like that? I don't know. I think it's` I just think it's difficult, you know, the chances of finding the right person for you, uh, for an extended period of time. I'm still a romantic. I still dream of, uh, love, and` and I've had some great relationships in my life. I've just been, uh, a bit non-traditional about it. But maybe that's how it is for a lot of people now. # ...good in sunshine. # She appears unlucky in love, perhaps a trade-off for her superstar status. It's a double-edged sword, for sure. Yeah. Some` Some of it's great, when you can do great things ` uh, you can make someone's day, you can, uh, do the smallest thing, you know, and someone's happy. Um, of course, there's the kind of the perils of` of star power, where sometimes people expect too much or want too much. So it's just a case of somehow finding the balance. But same in my life, aside from, uh, my career. It's just life seems to be about trying to find a balance. CHEERING Kylie Minogue! Kylie Minogue! CHEERING, APPLAUSE And at the moment, you're living, what, between Australia and the UK? And at the moment, you're living, what, between Australia and the UK? I live at 38,000ft. Sometimes I touch down in a studio. Sometimes I touch down in a studio. How do you cope with that? Sometimes I touch down in a studio. How do you cope with that? Um, I'm coping all right. It's a busy time. I'm doing The Voice UK, Voice Australia, releasing an album, uh, trying to do great promotional things. Are you as good a coach as you are a pop star? This I will find out. Um, I hope I will be. I hope, for my` for the sake of my acts, um... I mean, I-I-I confess to everyone I was really nervous about taking on this role, and then I realised one of the things that` that triggered me to say yes to being a coach on The Voice was I thought, 'Being scared's not a good enough reason.' That's what makes you good, really, isn't it ` having a bit of anxiety about something. You wanna feel the fear and, um, and do it anyway, as the saying goes. Your voice is really arresting. Your voice is really arresting. Thank you. It's kind of otherworldly, kind of amazing, mysterious voice. But I just` It does that thing that is the thing that we're waiting for. Do you find yourself inspired by the young people coming through on those shows? Yeah. Yeah. Very much. I have a couple of girls in the UK ` 16-year-old girls. # She's up all till night the sun. # I'm up all night to get some. # What do you offer them? Uh, first and foremost, I offer support. I try and make light of heavy situations, try and joke around and make them feel comfortable. They wanna ask me about my shoes and who I've met. I mean, have girl` They wanna ask me about my shoes and who I've met. I mean, have girl` Priorities, girls. Priorities! All these, you know, 16-year-old girl questions. Um, then I have, you know, other acts who are, like, 'Wow. You signed with Rob Nation. That's`' you know, '..the coolest thing ever.' She offers her experience... CAMERAS SNAP ...from a glistening career and her downtimes, insights drawn from feelings of emptiness; feelings you may not expect from a woman whose life is so full. Well, the biggest change, was, uh, end of 2012, we'd had a year-long celebration of, um, my 25 years in the business... (EXHALES) I still can't believe I say that. Um, which was fantastic. It was great to recognise where I'd been and, uh, and celebrate all of that. I actually had an epiphany ` I don't know how many epiphanies you have in your life, but I had one ` and it was very clear, and there was a horizon with nothing on it, You had an empty slate? Yeah. I had this great calm, uh, come over me, so I didn't know where I was going, I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew that I had to make a change. I've never` I've never had that situation. So that part was` was an easy realisation. Then making the change` of course, any big change in your life is` is not going to be a walk in the park. So this whole transition, um, signing to new management, getting used to a new way of working, uh, was mostly very exciting, sometimes very challenging, but it's been worth it. Definitely. Challenges aren't new to this foxy and formidable force. Remember this? I'm very pleased to be able to confirm that the operation was successful. I feel confident that we caught the cancer in time and that she's now on the road to complete recovery. Did that experience change you? Did that experience change you? Actually, it didn't change too much. And I'm glad about that. I just realised I really like what I do. I wanna do better, I wanna be able to reach more people. Um, I just felt like... I just felt like I'm` there's more to do. I'm not finished. It's that simple. KYLIE MINOGUE'S 'WOW' At an age many of us slow down, there's a new energy about Kylie. # Read my lips. I'd pick that one of the world's most desired and admired artists is still evolving, asking her fans for a little more time. < How much more can you achieve, Kylie? I don't know. How long is a piece of string? I feel like there's a lot` there's a lot yet to experience. I don't know if I'll feel like doing it forever, but for the moment, I feel reinvigorated and ready to, um, essentially do the same thing, but do it with a different light shining on it. Just one more question ` for a woman who seems to have it all, is there anything you really really want? (CHUCKLES) Lots of things. Um,... a nap. Cos I am a bit of a nana, actually. Um, I want` I just want to feel good, and I want the people that I love to feel good, and, um, you know, and recognise great moments because one thing that did become clear to me after being ill is, you know, life` can` is difficult for everyone. We all have difficult moments. So if it's a good moment, try to recognise it's a good moment. All those moments don't join up. But just try and enjoy the good moments. All we have is now. All we have is now. That's right. # Wow, wow, wow, wow! # 25 years in that business ` amazing, eh? After the break ` planning on getting your nails done soon? Well, you might wanna watch this next piece. What do you think is the one thing that nail salons just don't want the consumer to know? There is danger lurking everywhere. The potential for infection is greater than people realise. And she said, 'I guarantee you this is a mycobacterial infection that you get from pedicure spa baths.' The bacteria had spread into her muscle. The only way to get rid of it was to literally cut it out of her leg. ...Ja-am-mes... Bro. Yeah, do` do the thing. ROMANTIC MUSIC PLAYS ROMANTIC MUSIC PLAYS Oh, look, the trailer for the latest film I'm in. (VOICEOVER) STUTTERS: Win-ches-st-ter Mead-ow-s. Star-ring... Star-ring... Come on. ...Ja-am-mes... Wait. Don't put up with annoying pauses. Stream smoother with our 4G network, available free on prepay. A ladies' man, eh? (CHUCKLES) Welcome back. Nail salons ` seems like they're popping up all over the show here these days, and in America, there are even more. 20/20 spoke to an industry insider over there who has warned that there are certain things you need to know before you get feet freshened up and your nails blinged. Right here on the right side! PHOTOGRAPHERS CLAMOUR These days, if you want make a splash on the red carpet, you have to have your nails masterfully manicured, the glitzier the better. Just ask Katy Perry and actress Zooey Deschanel. And just this week at the Oscars` This is called a mani-cam. Lupita Nyong'o got as almost as much praise for her polish as her performance. But before you try and bedazzle your fingers and toes... It's really not about the glitter and the polish anymore. ...listen to the warnings from this industry insider. What do you think is the one thing that nail salons just don't want the consumer to know? There is danger lurking everywhere. The potential for infection is greater than people realise. Hi, Joan. A salon owner and nail tech for 34 years, Athena Elliot rates other salons for her website. She says they aren't necessarily safe because too many salons take shortcuts. It's a lucrative business. I mean, we're a $7.9 billion industry, and unfortunately, there's a lot of money to be made at your cost. What have you seen? What have you seen? Dirty tools, dirty tubs. That's the one where I really cringe a lot. She cringes not only because it's gross, but because it's also potentially dangerous. Possibly living inside those whirlpool tubs, fungus, E coli and other bacteria that can cause cuticle infections, finger herpes, staph, MRSA and more. So, what do you look for...? Jennifer Schnipper of Palm Beach, Florida, where sunshine meets sandals, says this salon is clean. But at a different one she had a frightening experience. One day she developed a little blemish on the middle of her shin. Pretty soon it wasn't so little. I was in extreme pain. I couldn't walk. It was hot to the touch; it was red; it was bumpy. So she went to the doctor. The first question she said to me was, 'How often do you get pedicures?' She knew right away? She knew right away? She knew right away. And she said, 'I guarantee you this is a mycobacterium infection that you get from pedicure spa baths.' The bacteria had spread into her muscle. The only way to get rid of it was to literally cut it out of her leg with emergency surgery. I mean, it's like a crater in the middle of your shin. Jennifer sued the nail salon and received a $375,000 settlement. What would you like to say to the owners of that salon? It's their responsibility to keep us safe, and they took shortcuts at my expense. You paid with your leg, literally. You paid with your leg, literally. Yeah. But to find out the dirty truth for ourselves, 20/20 used hidden cameras in glasses, purses, even a water bottle... We're gonna go in right now with a hidden camera. ...and went undercover at nail salons in New York and Houston to document any germ-spreading stunts. Like this. Check out this woman as she takes a cotton ball with nail polish remover, uses it on her own nails, and then the same one right on us. That's how we can impart bacteria on people. Watch as she grabs this old nail buffer. What looks like white chalk is probably someone else's dead skin. Without hesitating she uses it on us ` a major no-no. Those devices are one-time use only, according to state regulations. But is really so bad that everything must be cleaned and disinfected? We swabbed and swabbed and swabbed all over the salon and sent it to the lab. In one footbath, they found 28 million bacteria from faeces. And on a pedicure towel, staph. Staphylococcus aureus. If you have a break in the skin, that is one way that staph can get into there ` by using that towel. But worst of all we found salons using illegal instruments. Is that a nail tech or a ninja? Look at the way she's slicing and dicing those callouses with a razor, called a credo blade, but it's banned in at least 45 states. That type of thing is really meant for a doctor to use, not for a nail technician to use. That semi-surgical tool can cause bleeding. Yet, we found it readily available in nail salons. That's nothing compared to what Athena has seen and experienced. She too goes undercover. Probably gonna go have unprotected nail sex. Complete with a wig and a special something extra. These are spy glasses. Here she is getting a pedicure when the employee busts out a home improvement tool to, well, improve the condition of her feet. She said, 'I have the perfect tool.' That perfect tool ` a Dremel ` The most compact, versatile and empowering cordless tool system ever. a rotary device meant to drill and sand wood,... Sand, drill and so much more. ...but definitely not someone's foot. She pulled it out and said, 'Don't worry, don't worry. You know, I can do this for you.' And really, basically, freestyled on my feet. What did you think when they pulled out that sander? What did you think when they pulled out that sander? I was a little bit scared, actually. Then I started to think, wait a minute, that's the same pad that was used on the person before me, and probably 20 people before me. and probably 20 people before me. Ugh. That's just so disgusting. Was that it? A one-time occurrence? Nope. When we visited that very salon a week later, we saw the staff going Tim Allen with that Dremel tool. It's always ready when you need it. We went inside for answers. I'm Reena Ninan with ABC's 20/20. We have video of a wood sander being used on people's feet here. Why would they use that here? It's a violation of state regulations. The owner wasn't at the salon. His employee Kim denied ever using the tool. I don't use this machine. I don't use this machine. You're not even changing the discs, so the germs on someone else's feet go on to the next person's, potentially. When we point out that woman who was using the Dremel is right next to her,... It looks exactly like the woman there. ...Kim changes her tone, saying customers like it. They want to sand for take off the dead skin. But you know this isn't an approved device. It's used for sanding wood. And you're putting it on people's feet. > If you tell, if I can't use that, I stop it. You don't want to use it any more? You don't want to use it any more? No more. While she says she did no wrong, Kim promises to stop using it. So, how do state regulators deal with salon violations? We followed along with Joanne Ayotte, an inspector with the Arizona State Board of Cosmetology. Just here to do a routine inspection today. Some, like this one, clean. OK, they look good. Others not so much. This one's been used over and over again. It would have to be discarded. I'm seeing a lot of grime in here. And the pedicure tub at this salon, downright nasty. If the client came in contact with this, germs could be transferred if they have open pores that cut in the skin. That salon had multiple violations, but the inspector doesn't have the authority to shut them down. This salon owner, who says he has since cleaned up his act, will probably get a $250 fine. So many salons they just get slapped on the wrist by our state, they get fined, and then, you know, they just start up again. Athena wants everyone to know that there are also good nail salons out there too, and has a bit of advice ` don't be fooled by the sticker price. Are you safer in a five-star salon that charges five times the price? Absolutely not. Dirty knows no prejudice. It's everywhere. And it doesn't matter if you are paying $50 for a manicure, or you are paying $10 for a manicure. It's still lurking. Dirtiness knows no prejudice. I like that line. 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