1 Tonight on Sunday ` the little girl who will always be little. We didn't do this to Charley. We did it for Charley. Rare, radical treatment. A child like Charley is better off small rather than big. She'll never grow bigger than the size she is today. I'm damn proud of what we've done. It will freak people out, and it causes controversy. Is it fair to keep her a child for the rest of her life? It's a` a very tricky decision. The young Kiwi on a mission to change the world... I just love them so much, and I couldn't bare losing them. ...comes face to face with her inspiration. BOTH CHUCKLE And... The hair stood up on the back of my neck. ...has the true identity of Jack the Ripper finally been unmasked? Copyright Able 2014 Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. It's so controversial, it's rarely spoken about. The very few parents across the globe who have imposed this treatment on their children have never put their names to it for fear of the backlash. Jenn Hooper of Hamilton, NZ is the first in the world to openly acknowledge what she's done to her young daughter, Charley. She's taken medical measures to stop Charley growing and stop her becoming a woman. Janet McIntyre reports. WHISPERS: Gather it out of the way. Yeah. Should we do that? We're not these monstrous people that have just come up with this crazy Frankenstein idea. What's that about? One doctor had said, 'Oh God. Yes. I'd heard about that. Only in America, eh? 'How ludicrous. You'd never have that happen in NZ.' OK, missus, you ready? We didn't do this to Charley. We did this for Charley. There you go. It will freak some people out. It will freak some people out. I-I accept that. I think it's a difficult decision, and it will freak people out, and it causes a huge amount of controversy as a consequence. Charley will be like a child for the rest of her life, thought to be just the fifth in the world to undergo a radical treatment to keep her small and infertile. A treatment she began when she was just 4. Some people would say, 'She's missed out on her right to be a fully grown woman.' She missed out on that the day they screwed her over when she was born. She missed out on that the day she was born. About 40 minutes ago, my waters broke and gave me a bit of a fright, really. And, um, so I'm just saying this so you know, little Charley girl, that you're on your way. Jenn's was a dream pregnancy. Images in the womb show Charley, a perfect baby girl. For us now, it's the only pictures that we had of her while she was still OK. Midwives attending the home birth made some catastrophic mistakes that led to Charley being starved of oxygen for half an hour before she was eventually rushed to Waikato Hospital. We're trying to catch your first cry. Who would have that you'd be just itching for your baby to cry? > Too late. The damage done. Her brain damage was to the extent that there was no healthy part left, um, and that there was no hope for any kind of potential. There's no walking, no talking, no comprehension of anything as far as they could guess. Blind, immobile, permanently incontinent, Charley as a baby endured 200 seizures a day. (CRIES) It's because of her brain damage. Her brain was all messed up. She would scream so bad, she would levitate. She would turn purple and just be this stiff little body we could pick up and, um, scream like you're killing her. Ah! Ah! Whoo! > Told Charley would remain with the mental capacity of a newborn baby, Jenn and Mark Hooper made the call to be her full-time carers, supported by ACC. But rather than hide her away,... < Charley! ...they made a point of taking her out, going on holidays, holding her in their arms when they could. Being able to experience as much of life as she can. Like, the jetski or trips to Bali or whatever. But they feared how they would manage as Charley got older, bigger, as she became a woman. How do you pick her up if she's or 5" or 6" tall? And she's tetraplegic. She can't help you. There's no head strength. There's no arms. You're responsible for every limb. ALL CHEER She's dead weight. By then, she'd be what? 50kg? 70kg? How? How can you balance somebody on your knee like that and have her just have that little bit of response or enjoyment from the very very few things that she seems to enjoy? To respond to? Jenn saw an article about a girl known only as Ashley who had undergone radical treatment in America, ostensibly to improve the quality of her life. It was clearly about a severely, severely disabled child that they'd basically stunted the growth of. It's known as the Ashley Treatment, and it involves not only intense hormone therapy to stunt a child's growth and bring on puberty but also to surgically remove a girl's uterus and her breast buds so that she remains small, she's unable to menstruate, unable to have babies, of course, unable to grow breasts. In short, she will forever be like a child. Mark and I were... were, like, 'Oh my God. This is amazing. Imagine if we could do this 'and always be able to carry her and, you know, like the newborn baby that her brain always will be.' Up next ` knocked back by NZ medical professionals,... Nobody wanted to talk to us. They really didn't want to discuss it at all. ...desperate Jenn takes a leap into the unknown. How could anyone be sure of the risks? Well, of course it's brand-new and all that sort of stuff, but what if we were able to find a doctor overseas? Anywhere? Somewhere outside of NZ? Willard Wigan actually slows his heart and sculpts between beats to create these tiny treasures. At first glance, the world of finance looks large and complex, but in the right hands it can be distilled into something simple and understandable. Seemingly big problems become so much smaller. ANZ has the expertise to help make the complicated simple. Huh. READS: 'My big sister is my best friend. She can't walk, talk, move around much,...' 7-year-old Zach will always look up to his older sister,... READS: '...cook macaroni, pilot a plane.' ...even though he'll soon be bigger than her. READS: 'Just because.' She's a lot like a princess. She's a lot like a princess. Because princesses...? > She's a lot like a princess. Because princesses...? > Don't... have to. Don't have to do much. I used to sing songs for her when she was crying. We tried to have our best guess at what she would prefer or what we would prefer if we were her. I would think that if I was stuck in a newborn baby's brain, I would prefer, rather than be allowed to get bigger and have the necessity of hoists and equipment and, you know, uh, more limitations on an already incredibly limited life, I would think that I would prefer to be carried and held. To play the devil's advocate, plenty of severely disabled people do grow up and, we understand, do live fulfilled lives and, we understand, do live fulfilled lives Yeah, fulfilled lives? I'd question they live fulfilled lives. How many do you see out and about? Most of them` for most of them, it's too hard to get them out of the house. She travels the world. She's, you know, she's well and truly there with us all the time. We didn't do this because we want our little girl to never grow up. We want her to grow up. We want her to be able to learn and grow and fulfil potential, and we want all of those things. We can't have them. (SIGHS) So you do the best with what you've got. We want the opposite of keeping her little. We want the opposite of keeping her little, but you can't always get what you want. What they wanted had to be put before a committee ` the Clinical Ethics Advisory Group at Auckland DHB. Health-sector professionals and laypeople who assess and advice on difficult ethical issues. But the Hoopers first had to find a specialist to argue their case. My initial, um, response was a very negative one. That's before I met the family. Paediatric endocrinologist Professor Paul Hofman specialised in treating children with hormonal disorders. My concern when I first heard about the Ashley Treatment and the desire of this family to want it was this concept of making your` making your child into a child forever. You're trying to make them into an infant rather than let them grow up, and this, of course, may have impinge on their rights, um, as individuals. But Professor Hofman changed his mind when he heard the Hoopers' rationale. The family were looking ahead a decade, or two decades, and saying, 'Well, look, if she does get bigger as we're get older, 'we're not going to be able to look after her, even with the hoists and the other equipment that you have.' Keeping Charley in the home is going to improve her quality of life much more than if she had to be institutionalised, which was the other outcome as she got bigger. But the Clinical Ethics Advisory Group didn't buy it, saying it had never before been done in NZ for severely disabled children. I was quite outraged by that, actually. I was quite upset by the idea that a group of people were able to make a decision on our life, our child, without meeting her, without seeing that we're not these monstrous people that have just come up with this crazy Frankenstein idea. So ethics committee says no. What next? I'm the sort of person that takes no for an answer very easily. So I wrote to them, and we wrote a whole bunch of reasons why their turndown wasn't OK. And Jenn had another idea on how to get Charley started on hormone therapy. What if...? What if we were able to find a doctor overseas, anywhere, somewhere outside of NZ that would give me the first skin patches? Start the treatment officially? Would we then be OK to continue it here with the endocrinologist that's keen from the beginning to supervise it and oversee it? And the answer came back that, 'Yeah, look, actually, 'that we would have to allow her to carry it on here, then. 'Because if she's already started it overseas, then it would be a matter of Charley's safety. 'She would need to have someone overseeing it here.' Jenn started looking overseas for a doctor; made enquiries with her internet chat group ` parents of children like Charley. And you went all the way to Korea? > And you went all the way to Korea? > Yeah, we found a doctor in Korea, in Seoul. Who was this doctor? A specialist? Who was this doctor? A specialist? He's a paediatric endocrinologist from Seoul. Um, he doesn't wanna be named because he'd never done this before. He'd` He'd never even contemplated prescribing this treatment before. Weren't you nervous about the fact he'd never done it before? No, because I just` I needed the patch. I knew what the patch was gonna do. I knew` uh, I knew all of that. All I needed was the physical patch. The whole family travelled 10,000km to get to a doctor's office in a hospital in Seoul, and after a 20 minute consultation, Charley, aged just 4, got her first skin patch containing oestrogen. A big monumental moment. Putting on the first patch. Officially, it has to be before we get home to NZ. A hormone usually given to women in their 50s suffering with menopause. But Charley's was an extra high dose of oestrogen. That's it. Invisible to the naked eye, and yet so big and important. Back in NZ, managed by Professor Hofman. What was the highest dose she was receiving? > About five times the maximum dose that we'd normally use for a, um, for a replacement dose for a-a normal woman. And what are the risks of so much oestrogen? And what are the risks of so much oestrogen? Um, th-the risks, as I said to you, are around fluid retention, around high-blood pressure, around risk of clotting, which happens in 1% to 2%. I certainly cautioned the family that these are issues that` that we have seen. Did that scare you at all? > Did that scare you at all? > No, we're all monitoring. Monitoring is everything. Charley started puberty straight away. At age 7, X-rays showed her bones had fused, meaning she would grow no taller. We'd estimated it to be about 125cm, which we think is` I believe is just over 4". And that's it for Charley? That's as big as she'll ever be? > And that's it for Charley? That's as big as she'll ever be? > Yeah. Her breast tissue thickened, then flattened again because of the high-dose oestrogen. She started to have periods. It was felt, in terms of control, that it was` it was gonna be very very difficult to manage those. After advice from the ethics group that a hysterectomy was reasonable for Charley, her fully mature uterus was surgically removed at Starship last year. She was 7. Why did you want to prevent Charley menstruating? > Because of my family history of horrendous period pain; of excessive bleeding; of, you know... So that was always kind of the sensible thing to do, I suppose, for me with that, um, bearing in mind she was also never going to be capable of choosing to have a baby. Whose needs are being met here? Is it about the girl's right to bodily integrity? For her body to develop? For her sexuality to develop? Or is it in their interests to have her as small as possible and to remain as babylike? Trish Grant of IHC says the Ashley Treatment breaches the Bill of Rights that gives every person control over their own body. What if this girl is so disabled, she doesn't have any awareness of what's going on around her? The severity of her disability should not equate to, uh, riding roughshod over her human rights. It worries me that the people` the medical people making these decisions have no... deep` or current contemporary understanding of disability rights. Advocates for the disabled say she's been deprived of her right to become a fully mature women. I'm not sure that's entirely true. And here is when it gets really complicated. She is a fully developed woman. She's just smaller than normal. It just happened earlier. She's 8 years old. She's 8 years old. Yeah, she's 8 years old, and she's a fully developed woman. But she's smaller than a fully developed woman, and you could say, as a human-rights advocate, that you'd deprived her of her childhood, and I think that would be not an unreasonable comment. On the upside, Jenn says there have been unexpected positive side effects, none of them medically explained. Charley's seizures have eased. Her usually tight body has loosened up. Her eyes roll less... and something else. She's started smiling. She's started smiling, and we had to wait more than any parent should have to wait for that little response, that little humanness, that little interaction. Eh? It's pretty funny, eh? Nowadays, you can touch her nose or you can blow at her face or whatever, and she'll get her happy face on. I do think it's a... a very tricky decision to make. Um, and even more colleagues, there was dissension. Some people agreed it was the appropriate thing to do. Others didn't. Most didn't want to get involved because they felt it was a, um, you were putting yourself in a position where you could be criticised. In this instance, I think, on balance, it was the right thing to do. (CHUCKLES) I feel like we've proven, certainly to the medical set and to other families with very severe children that there is a wee bit of hope with this treatment, and certainly, if nothing else, we should be able to have open discussions about it. Feel this? Th-That's the wind. I'm not saying it should come easy. It shouldn't be as hard as it was made for us, and I don't believe it will be now cos the scariness of it, hopefully, has been taken away a little bit, having had a local child with nothing but good. Well, Sunday requested an interview with the chairperson of the Clinical Ethics Advisory Group, Karen Smith. She declined. Coming up ` Charlotte Thomas, the young Kiwi environmentalist on a crusade to save the the Sumatran orang-utan. Do you think you're a normal kid? > Do you think you're a normal kid? > No. (CHUCKLES) No, when you're obssessed with The Beatles, you collect dead animals and you have a radioactive rock in your room, you can't really describe that as normal. (CHUCKLES) When you find your dream home, if there's something you don't like, you change it. Why should your home loan be any different? Revamp your home loan with our great rate, plus get up to $1500 cash on new lending. Conditions apply. Talk to us today. Welcome back. Charlotte Thomas isn't your average tween. Since she was tiny, this impassioned environmentalist has been a collector, fossicker and champion of nature. But it's the plight of the Sumatran orang-utan which has really fired her up. It's a species under threat ` 10 years, some say, until extinction. Charlotte is on a crusade to save them. Her mission ` to help end the trade of unsustainable palm oil, a mission that takes this 12-year-old schoolgirl from suburban Auckland deep into the Sumatran jungle. 'On the long, hard road to Palm Oil Central, 'a rare visit from an unusual girl.' What makes you happy? What makes you happy? Animals. Just being around nature. When I'm with nature, I'm at my happiest. 'She's not a tourist. This young Kiwi wants to change the world...' Oh my gosh. Look. There it is. Right there. Right in front of us. A big truck full of palm-oil fruit. A big truck full of palm-oil fruit. Oh my gosh. '...starting with the Sumatran orang-utan.' Do you think you're a normal kid? No. (CHUCKLES) No, well, when you're obsessed with The Beatles, you collect dead animals and you have a radioactive rock in your room, you can't really describe that as normal. 'Charlotte Thomas is certainly not your typical 12-year-old girl.' Just give me a word when you see this image. No. (CHUCKLES) That's it. No. No. (CHUCKLES) That's it. No. OK, well, how about these guys? No. No. OK. How about this? Yes. Oh yeah. Weta. It's a female tree weta, and you see, the ears are on the front legs. So how can you tell it's a female? It has an ovipositor, and that's how they rear up, and then they stick that in the ground, and then that's how they lay their eggs. and then that's how they lay their eggs. So, lastly, what do you think of...? Yes, David Attenborough. I love him so much. He's so inspirational and an amazing figure. 'Just like Sir David Attenborough, Charlotte is passionate about nature. 'Her favourite ` the Sumatran orang-utan.' I just love them so much, and I couldn't bear losing them. 'In just a few weeks, Charlotte and her mum will travel to Sumatra 'to meet their adopted orang-utan, Dora, and learn more about the issues threatening her existence.' The orang-utans are gonna be extinct in 10 years, and that means we're never gonna see them again when they're extinct, and they're such beautiful creatures. '10 years may be arguable, but Dora and her species are critically endangered, 'at risk because of our appetite for the ubiquitous palm oil. 'Indonesia loses 55 rugby fields of rainforest every hour, 'and the expanding palm-oil industry is a major driver of this deforestation. That's why Charlotte's gone even further than just adopting orang-utans. For a year now, she's refused all palm-oil foods and products, 'even taking her own ethical soap to school. It's not easy, especially for a child.' Lollies. People sell them at school. I just, like, 'Sorry. No palm oil.' And, um, ice cream. It's in ice cream and popcorn at the movies. Are you ever tempted? Are you ever tempted? No, never. Never tempted, cos it's, 'Eat this little, um, biscuit or... 'or... the death of an orang-utan.' 'And she's not alone. Little sister Mia, mum Jeanette and dad Dave are all palm-oil free too.' I can categorically tell you now I'll never knowingly eat the stuff again in my life because it's just how I feel about it. 'If mum Jeanette Thomas looks familiar, it's because of this ` a long career in telly. 'But behind the scenes, she's raising an impressive environmentalist.' It's totally innate with her. It's just` It's` It's in every cell of her body, and it's just her. I can't really even explain it. I mean, we both love animals, and we both have a real love of nature. But, um, she's... leaves us for dead, doesn't she? So, there might be some people who'd say, 'She's a kid. This is a phase. Kids go through phases.' What would you say to that? Well, this isn't really a phase for me. It's what I'm going to stick to for the rest of my life. You've never heard of an ex-environmentalist. I will always love nature and be palm-oil free for the rest of my life. 'In fact, life so far has been all about the environment. Her bedroom says it all.' So, what have we got? Shells? Rocks? So, what have we got? Shells? Rocks? Shells, rocks. This is my bird-skull collection. It's a radioactive rock from Scotland. Insects, birds, marine and, like... 'Just like a museum, every artefact is carefully collected, catalogued and treasured.' What is your favourite thing? What is your favourite thing? Probably my letter from Sir David Attenborough. What about that love for nature? When did you first notice that Charlotte was into...? 3 days old? 3 days old? As soon as she could walk and get out and start discovering things. So where does she get the confidence from? No. No, that's so not true cos I'm as shy as everything. I hate, um, being in the public eye, and I know it sounds really odd, but I really do. It's just` It's not my thing. Um... It's just` It's not my thing. Um... You hate being in the public eye? > It's just` It's not my thing. Um... You hate being in the public eye? > I do, yeah. (CHUCKLES) Yet you've chosen this career? > Yet you've chosen this career? > I love my job. I love that. But that's just me and a camera. I couldn't stand up in front of, you know, a whole bunch of people and do... oh, just couldn't. 'But daughter Charlotte can. No problems talking to adults, like the staff at Auckland Zoo.' I hate the fact that companies don't have to label products properly to identify that they contain palm oil. What have you got there? 'A museum volunteer and DOC ambassador, 'Charlotte counts The Bugman, Ruud Kleinpaste, among her friends. 'A friendship, that on this recent kiwi release, allowed her to meet the man she's written to, 'lobbying for mandatory palm-oil labelling.' We're now going to introduce Right Honourable John Key. Do you know who that is? Yes, I do. Yeah, OK, the Prime Minister to actually officially name these birds. So would you like to do that? Would you, Prime Minister, please come and announce the name for the new kiwi? (CHUCKLES) There you go. She's a wonderful teacher. We've learned so much from her, um, from literally when she was this high. So she's been your teacher? > So she's been your teacher? > Yeah, absolutely. 'So, together, mum and daughter are heading off to Sumatra to meet Dora 'and see the effects of the palm-oil trade first-hand.' So you're going to Sumatra soon? > So you're going to Sumatra soon? > Yeah, I'm so, so excited. I get to hang out with all the orang-utans and see all the wild ones. I'm just so, so excited. I've got both of those. I'm palm-oil free, so I'll get to see the effects and I'll get a better, um, idea about what's actually happening. So the sad thing is we have to fly over the palm-oil plantations, and we're very likely to come home with broken hearts. How are you getting on? Here we are. Third and final. Do you have reservations about taking Charlotte there? Do you have reservations about taking Charlotte there? No, no. Um, I don't. We're in very good hands when we do get there and... I remember being told once by a parenting expert, and he said if you have a child that has a passion, do everything... everything you possibly can, um, in your power ` financially, whatever ` to make that, you know, to make that passion happen for that child. And that's kind of what we've done with her because her passion is so real. 'After the break ` Palm Oil Central.' I can only see palm oil. I can only see palm oil. That's all there is. You can't help but instantly go, 'How many animals died for that?' 'And the much-wanted meeting with Dora.' This is the most insane experience that we're having right here, right now. Jambi, in the heart of Sumatra, ground zero for palm-oil production. They're complex issues. Here in Indonesia, the industry creates employment for more than 3 million people; the oil used in everything from biscuits to baby wipes. There's so many people. But as global demand grows for this cheap and fruitful commodity, so too does the destruction of Indonesia's rainforests and biodiversity. And as the plantations replace the jungle, Animal species like the Sumatran tiger... Oh wow. That's, uh, those was last night. These are fresh prints. Where do you think that tiger would be now? Where do you think that tiger would be now? Not too far away. This` Really? (LAUGHS) OK. ...and the Sumatran orang-utan have become critically endangered. It's estimated there are only 7000 left in the wild. You know, the next few years will determine whether we win or lose. You know, it's a crucial time. Charlotte Thomas and her mum, Jeanette, have been met by The Orangutan Project's president, Leif Cocks. They're here to see the effects of the palm-oil trade and to meet their adopted orang-utan, Dora. Uh, how much of Sumatra has, you know, been lost to deforestation? Uh, how much of Sumatra has, you know, been lost to deforestation? Uh, 80% is gone. It'll take a full day to get from the city to the forest camp. Whoo-whoo. (LAUGHS) I think this is going to be a little bit of a bumpy ride, my friend. SERENE MUSIC ANIMAL SQUAWKS We woke up to the most amazing alarm clock this morning ` the jungle. The Orangutan Project helps support 2000 orang-utans across Borneo and Sumatra, including a forest school, where orphaned orang-utans learn to live in the wild. We're actually not really concerned about you so much. This is to protect the orang-utans. They have 97% genetic material exactly the same as us, so they'll catch the same colds and diseases as us. Leif Cocks says they've been orphaned by deforestation and that some are killed by those trying to protect palm-oil crops from what are seen as pest orang-utans That is Dora. That is Dora. Is it Dora? That is Dora. Is it Dora? Yeah. BOTH CHUCKLE Finally, what they've travelled so far for. It's a big moment as Charlotte meets Dora. Look, even her feet are like... it's like she's got four hands. Look, even her feet are like... it's like she's got four hands. Like hands. Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. So, we'll go across the river. Each day, Dora and the other orang-utans are carried to forest school to develop the life skills they'd normally learn from their mothers. Something that resonates with this mother. For us, it's` it's trying not to bang on about it so much to people. 'Ah, she's coming again!' Um, but it's just trying to just get the message out there a little bit because it's so important. These creatures are so human. They're so like us, and it's obviously not just them. They've become the poster child, the orang-utan, but there are so many plants, animals, insects that are affected by this, um, but the orang-utan is the one that really gets me. Some people watching this might think the passion comes from you and that maybe the adult politicised the child, and you being in the industry you're in, you're a bit of a stage mum. Yeah, no. (CHUCKLES) Have you met Charlotte? (LAUGHS) I mean, and it so could have been that. She could have hung on for three months when we started. But, um, as you will know, getting to know her, it's just not the case. And she's the one asking us or telling us, 'Oh, that's got palm oil in it.' Or, 'I choose not to have that.' She makes those decisions all the time. There's over 200 names that palm oil can be hidden under. And you know them all? And you know them all? Um, not all of them but, but I've got a pretty good idea about all of them, like anything with, um, with cetyl alcohol or gly`glycerol, glycerine, um, palm H. Palm kernel or, um, like, sodium lauryl sulphate is usually in your toothpaste and your, um, shampoo, and even baby wipes has palm oil. 'It's estimated up to half of all packaged products in supermarkets contain palm oil. 'So going cold turkey is no small thing.' Mum's first palm-oil, um, free shop was two hours. I spent the entire time on my phone, phoning companies and googling. Whittaker's doesn't have palm oil. But, um, most other brands do, um, in most of their products. 'Often hidden under benign-sounding titles like 'vegetable oil', 'it's even harder to spot in non-food items.' It says, 'No palm-oil.' And I've looked all over, and I can't find another one that says that. I can just imagine the day that you discovered this. Yes! I hugged a stranger. I hugged a stranger. (CHUCKLES) I love it. But it's this that makes it worthwhile. Seeing first-hand Dora and this one, Jackie Chan, practising being adult orang-utans. < Is that normal? < Is that normal? < Yeah, it's normal play behaviour. Yeah. BOTH CHUCKLE This is the most insane experience that we're having right here, right now. It's time to return to the camp, and just as the day with Dora winds up, it suddenly gets better. Wow. She's beautiful. < She's just checking you out. < She's just checking you out. ALL CHUCKLE < I think, finally, she gets a human her own size to play with. I'm gonna do all I can to help save this rainforest and all the other beautiful creatures inside it. She is just the most amazing, amazing, amazing creature. It's what dreams are made of, eh? Yeah, you're only 12. Hey, it's been the best time. Love ya. (CHUCKLES) Charlotte, does it ever feel too big for you? No. I just` I'm just gonna keep on going until I, um, I reach what's` what I really want to have happen, which is sustainable palm oil. Yeah, she's one to watch. A very special girl. The Orangutan Project launched in NZ this week. So for more information, or to adopt an orang-utan yourself, we'll have links on our website and Facebook page. Well, up next ` why Patricia Cornwell has spent millions on 125-year-old murder mystery. You've spent $2.5 million of your own money investigating your theory about Jack the Ripper? Oh, it's probably closer to at least six. Oh, it's probably closer to at least six. Wow. The most critical part was looking at the original letters and putting them on a light box, which no one had ever done before. Welcome back. Her books have sold more than 100 million copies and started a worldwide fascination with criminal forensics. But as well as writing about crime, Patricia Cornwell has spent millions of dollars investigating the most infamous murder mystery of all time. She's convinced she's unmasked the true identity of Jack the Ripper. Here's Ross Coulthard. s I see what the bastard did. What Patricia Cornwell does in her novels is take the tools of crime-fighting and place them in the hands of a powerful, thinking female heroine ` Kay Scarpetta. Patricia's fictional stories inevitably begin with real detective work,... I love blood spatter because blood screams bright red that somebody did something wrong. ...researching blood spatter evidence with crime scene police in Boston. Based on the blood pattern, it looks to me like at least three blows were struck. So many of her books have the investigating female turning the tables on a powerful male killer, avenging the victim with science and intuition. Patricia knows what it's like to be powerless. You have been a victim of crime yourself, haven't you? > I certainly have. By the very early age of... I think I was around 5, when I was living in Miami, we had a neighbourhood patrolman. Turned out nobody had checked to see that he was a convicted child molester, and he began physically molesting me. What I remember about it most vividly is that I felt I had done something wrong. I really fell into the victim's syndrome of not blaming him but blaming myself, and then feeling terrible that my mother was so upset. How has that experience coloured the way you write? I think all of my experiences colour the way I write because I have feelings about what I say. I have seen enough dead people, enough suffering, I have been to enough crime scenes, I have been through enough things in my own life that are extremely painful or humiliating, or scary, that when I write such things, I infuse my own symphony of emotions into them. Patricia's father left the family when she was a toddler. Her mother was hospitalised with severe depression, and young Patricia and her brother wound up with a cruel foster mother who did her utmost to make their lives a misery. I still have a ball of fire of anger about that lady because it's like how do you do this to a 9-year-old child who has just lost her father and her mother? I have a lot of rage about that because it was just unbelievable cruelty, an-and I harness that rage when I kill people in my books. Patricia got her taste for writing as a crime reporter, and then as a writer and analyst here at the medical examiner's office in Richmond, Virginia. I saw thousands of autopsies and hundreds and hundreds of crime scenes, and that was my baptism into the evil sadism that people are capable of, and it was, you know, something you don't get over. Patricia's books have earned her many millions and the toys that go with it: fast cars, helicopters, private jets. She's just won a $50 million payout in a lawsuit against her former business managers. The money has given Patricia the wherewithal to become a real-life detective and to crack the most famous crime of all. 125 years ago, the killer known as Jack the Ripper stalked these streets in East London, mutilating and murdering at least five women. The killer was never caught or identified. These are the original newspapers. Patricia's investigation began with the crime reports stored in the British National Archives and the original newspaper stories that detailed the Ripper murders. Here is November 10th 1888. 'Another Whitechapel murder,' and this is a big story about the latest. and this is a big story about the latest. I love the way they wrote. READS: 'During the early hours of yesterday morning, 'another murder of the most revolting and fiendish character took place in Spitalfields.' The suspects were many ` a barrister, Montague Druitt. An American, Dr Francis Tumblety. A Russian conman, Michael Ostrog. Even the Queen's grandson, Prince Albert Victor. Is it really the case that you spent $2.5 million of your own money investigating your theory about Jack the Ripper? Oh, it was probably closer to at least six. Oh, it was probably closer to at least six. Wow! Really? Patricia looked for clues in the letters that Jack the Ripper had sent boasting about his murders. The original historic documents were subjected to modern forensic analysis. And the most critical part was looking at the original letters and putting them on a light box, which no one had ever done before. They had only looked at photographs. You could see the hand of an artist all over these things ` letters that were painted with a paintbrush, a wood cut, someone carving something intricate and stamping it in ink on a letter, and the hair began to stand up on the back of my neck. That led Patricia to investigate artists of the time; among them Walter Sickert, whose paintings had scenes with chilling similarities to Jack the Ripper's murders. The necklace is sort of evocative of the cut throat. She's holding something way up in a very odd position. She's holding something way up in a very odd position. That's her eye. Look at the fear. The fear, the fear. And one of the Ripper letters that he wrote to the police and the media, he says, 'What a pretty necklace I gave her.' Next, Patricia compared Sickert's handwriting with Jack the Ripper's. While it didn't match, it was probably disguised. What did match was a rare watermark; only 24 sheets of this batch of paper were ever made, and it was the same paper used by Sickert and Jack the Ripper. Can I tell you, I wouldn't want, if I was a crim, to have Patricia Cornwell on my tail > because you really went after this with a passion, didn't you? Well, they are real crimes. And, you know, his evil influence isn't gone. I mean, Jack the Ripper is like Charles Manson. He still influences people because the Ripper walks, and the industry and the people that are still spinning theories, and I'm up against an industry. They don't want this case solved. But I am completely confident that Walter Sickert was this killer, and it's not a romanticised thing; this was a very damaged, disturbed person. Patricia, you've sold 100 million-plus books worldwide. Why do you think we're drawn to lurid crime? I think that we're drawn to crime and we're drawn to death because it's an inevitability. It's something that we all face. No matter what we do, we know that, some day, we're gonna die. At least, we're not gonna exist in the form we're in right now. And so we have an intense curiosity about this. I think it really, ironically, all goes back to our survival instinct as a species, that if we can dismantle death, like, if you can figure out what happened in a murder, maybe you can make sure it doesn't happen to you. Now, remember our story from last week on medical cannabis? We received a huge amount of feedback and support for 11-year-old Paige Gallien. Paige has a severe form of epilepsy called Dravet syndrome. Her family were hoping that Sativex, the only legal form of cannabis in NZ, would help their daughter's syndrome. But, if not, they were prepared to break the law and use an illegal form of cannabis called Charlotte's Web. Since the story went to air, the associate health minister, Peter Dunne, has responded. He says if the Galliens, their GP, and the overseas clinical evidence meet all the necessary requirments to approve Charlotte's Web, then he would consider it for Paige. So we'll be watching that closely and update you on Paige's journey over the next few months. Finally ` here's a look at next week's story. Charlotte Dawson speaks in her last exclusive farewell interview from her secret Bali getaway. The story's been made with the help of her family and friends, including her two Kiwi sisters. We managed the rope off Horus and get him to the pool He does this magnificent Hory the dog leap. It's like a wonder dog. Wanna see it? Yeah. > Yeah. > OK. Charlotte was at a crossroads personally and professionally. I find it very hard when I'm back in Australia to separate the Charlotte Dawson that everyone thinks they know to Charlotte Dawson that I know who I really am and the person that does need a lot of TLC from herself, and this is what I have to do. I have to love myself. I don't have a partner. I don't have my mother or father. I don't have any family in Australia. Um, I don't have anything, you know? Uh, I'm just me, and so I don't have that shoulder to cry on at night. I don't have someone I can talk to except therapists. She loved me like a brother. I loved her like she was part of my family. Can I get you to take a look at these? Can I get you to take a look at these? Yeah. Yeah. (CHUCKLES) Uh, I look at these all the time. I look at this one, and that was when she was in Bali, before she` not long before she died. Um, and there was, like, there was a peace and tranquillity about her here. There's so much serenity. > There's so much serenity. > Oh, yes, isn't it? Well,... (SIGHS) this is where I come to retreat. Bali is just a wonderful place for me. Everything about it, I love. I give up. I give up. I surrender. Got him! When I split up from my husband, ooh, 14 years ago, that was the first time I came, and I stayed fo-for a few months from memory. If I've ever had problems or my anxiety hits, my depression hits, any challenges that I have in my life, I come here to heal. So that's on next week's programme, and that is our show for tonight. Do check us out on Facebook.