a Tonight ` the master of the game. The man who could defend anyone, no matter what the crime. I made a lot of enemies in the police force. I know that as a fact. Peter Williams QC spills his secrets. 'We've got the wall dynamited.' He said, 'If the verdict goes against us, 'we're going to blow the back of the courthouse off.' He's now facing his greatest trial. If she weren't there for you, then what? > If she weren't there for you, then what? > I'd just curl up and die. Then Rod Stewart... I always had a roving eye. ...on romance,... # I love ya, honey! # If you're a singer in a rock group, you get the girls. ...Rachel... You've had some of the best. You've had some of the best. That's true. ...and that voice. Combination of cigarette smoke and whisky. # The first cut is the deepest. # Baby, I know. # Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. He makes no apologies for defending rapists, murderers, drug traffickers. He'll defend anybody ` almost any kind of criminal. Peter Williams QC has been described as the best defence lawyer this country has ever seen, but right now he's fighting a force he's never encountered before. It's his greatest trial. And as Janet McIntyre reports, as usual he's fighting to win. Young lawyers are told that they shouldn't get too close to their clients. So why did you? So why did you? Because I liked them. (LAUGHS) Simple as that. SLEAZY MUSIC For six decades, Peter Williams has been the go`to lawyer for NZ's most notorious crooks ` murderer Ron Jorgensen, thug Peter Fulcher, cult sex offender Bert Potter, psychopathic drug trafficker Terry Clark, aka Mr Asia. He was described, I think by Interpol, as one of the top-10 criminals in the world at one stage. And when Clark was up on heroin-smuggling charges, waiting for a verdict in the Wellington High Court, Peter Williams saw the true face of Clark's evil. 'Oh well,' said Clark. 'I'm not really worried.' I said, 'What do you mean you're not worried? You'll get a long stretch for this.' 'Oh well,' he said. 'I might as well tell you now,' he said. 'We've got the wall dynamited. He said, 'If the verdict goes against us, we're gonna blow the back of the courthouse off.' I thought, 'Jesus, what do I do?' I thought, 'Jesus, what do I do?' What did you do? (LAUGHS) Well, I went back up the steps thinking about it, and mercifully... (LAUGHS) the crier, 'A verdict! A verdict! A verdict!' What were you thinking? What were you thinking? Very worried, very worried. Because you knew if the verdict was guilty, then` That's right. It was quite possible the back of the court was going to blow off. (LAUGHS) He can laugh about it now; the verdict turned out to be not guilty. In fact, he laughs about lots of things. (LAUGHS) Do you enjoy the company of some of those criminals? I like good company. I like people with a bit of spark. I like people who've got something different to offer. I can't stand boring people, quite frankly. And some of these people had stories to tell and I didn't mind listening to them. You're a good dog. Good dog. But just now Peter Williams personally has very little to laugh about. He's facing his most challenging trial. (EXHALES LOUDLY) Do you accept this is one trial you're not going to win? (SIGHS) Not completely. So the jury's still out? Absolutely. (CHUCKLES) OLD-FASHIONED ROCK MUSIC Peter Williams started practising law in an era where homosexuality, abortion and infidelity were illegal. Pubs shut at 6; women weren't allowed on juries. One of his very first clients was an entertainer like this one. She was a dancer, and she ended her dance or the climax of her dance ` she would strip off, and she was a stripper. And you saw this? And you saw this? 'Course. Yeah, oh yeah. She was dark-skinned, and very well-built, nubile, beautiful. Vice squad detectives working undercover in the Auckland club where she performed accused her of stripping naked and charged her with indecency. So, she's got everything off? > So, she's got everything off? > She didn't actually have everything off, according to her. She had a triangular piece of cloth glued to her private parts. In court, the judge took a liking to the stripper, halted proceedings and called counsel into his chambers. He said, 'I find this woman to be beautiful. What do you think?' And he said, 'I don't think a woman like this,' he said, 'could do anything indecent, 'particularly when she's artistic, as this one is. I'm going to discharge her.' (LAUGHS) You see, it shows that the law has heart and compassion and the people who administer the law are human beings; they're not robots. But what really brought Peter Williams to national attention was his crusading zeal for the big cases, the hard cases. Never more so than when he got a call from one Arthur Allan Thomas in prison for life for the 1970 murders of Jeannette and Harvey Crewe. Here he was in prison for something he didn't do. And he couldn't get out of prison. And, uh, strange thing was that just about everybody in prison knew he was innocent. Thomas had been twice found guilty of the murders when Peter Williams represented him at a Royal Commission of Inquiry. Having simplified the matter in that way... The inquiry found that investigating officers Bruce Hutton and Len Johnston manufactured evidence of a shell case to frame Arthur Allan Thomas, who was eventually pardoned. The shell case was plainly planted. And there's no doubt there is a very strong circumstantial case that it was planted by Hutton. No doubt about that. And to my mind, and I hope to every good citizen's mind, to plant evidence on an innocent person so that person can go to prison for life is a pretty nasty thing to do. His strong sense of right and wrong was seeded in his youth. You were cut from a different cloth, weren't you? > You were cut from a different cloth, weren't you? > I was, yes. That's right. He grew up in a rundown rental in Feilding. My parents did what they could. They weren't wealthy. My father was a teacher. He learned to box,... And I loved the ring, and I loved the smell of the liniment. ...got a job at the freezing works and tried his hand at law school. Academically, I only passed one subject by one mark, much to the absolute disgust of my father. But persistence finally earned him his place at the bar, though slightly apart from his learned friends. Yeah, I was still a bit of the old country boy. An old country boy with a knack of sniffing out holes in a police case. He had great analytical skills, so that he could spot the weak points in a prosecution and... not to put too fine a point on it, he was up` like a rat up a drainpipe. Stuart Grieve QC, formerly a crown prosecutor representing the police, regularly faced off with Williams in court. I have no doubt that he was certainly NZ's preeminent criminal defence lawyer, if not throughout Australasia. And if you knew he was going to be acting for the defendant? I just knew that I had to be on my mettle. That's how I'd best describe it. So he was able to find the holes in your cases? Perhaps even before you'd found them? From time to time, yes. That's right. He could sense that there was something wrong in a way that was almost born in him. He could smell a liar from 20ft. He was good. Lawyer Eb Leary worked under Peter in the same firm for four years. He could turn a police error into a lie. And by the time he'd finished with that officer making mistakes, so far as the jury was concerned, he was a liar. I made a lot of enemies in the police force. I know that as a fact. Uh, they didn't like anyone who challenged them. And, uh, I mean, they are a force, they are a powerful force in the community. You take them on and make serious allegations, they look round to make allegations against you. Allegations swirled after Williams secured an acquittal for heroin trafficker Terry Clark; rumours Williams himself was involved with drugs. A lot of them emanated from the police, would deliberately spread. But, you know, not long after that I was made a Queen's Counsel, so my reputation couldn't have been too bad, could it? His client Terry Clark, meanwhile, acquitted of the drugs charges, went on to commit murder. Does that sit on your conscience, Peter? Winning that acquittal cost people their lives? If you worry about the repercussions when you have acted honestly within the rules and you've merely done all you can in the course of your duty as a professional person, there is no worry. Have you had any conflict with that yourself? None whatsoever. The only thing about it was it caused me a lot of ignominy personally, and my children, really. You know, they get a bit teased and that sort of stuff. Along with his profile came wealth, travel, a love of fine whisky and women. Zelda, Catherine, Patricia, Julie and Heeni. That's right. Those were the main ones, yeah. You once said, 'A man who's not had good, healthy, vigorous women in his life has missed out a lot.' I still adhere to that, yeah, yeah. Yeah. To come home to a lonely apartment, to me, is sad, really, for a man, and for a woman too, for that matter. I think it's healthy to have a partner. And you're lucky if you get a good partner. SUBDUED ELECTRONIC MUSIC WOMAN: Might have to change hands. WOMAN: Might have to change hands. (CHUCKLES) Of course I've got the star now. > Heeni Phillips, Peter's partner of 20 years. Poor little thing over there, not getting any attention. From my perspective, I admire Peter's intelligence, uh, wit, um, brilliance in court. He backed her to get her own law degree; she worked on his squash game. Well, improved it, of course. Yeah! (LAUGHS) What is it about you, Peter, that attracts women? CHUCKLES: Oh, God. I don't even think I do. The looks, the power, the money? (SCOFFS) I don't know about that. The money's running out. I've got bloody cancer. I mean, not exactly a great purchase. (LAUGHS) Cancer of his prostate. It struck eight years ago. Peter's been trying to fend it off with round after round of treatment, Heeni at his side. If she weren't there for you, then what? > If she weren't there for you, then what? > I'd just curl up and die. (CHUCKLES) Yeah, I really... pity people who have cancer who live alone. Come. He's putting his hope in new, expensive drugs he funds himself ` $10,000 a month. But the cancer has advanced. It's moved to his spine. Has it made you more humble? Has it made you more humble? Absolutely. No doubt about that. I'm an old man now. And I'm an invalid. And I haven't got the strength. Have you been told how long to expect? Have you been told how long to expect? They've given me various times. And some years ago they gave me 18 months. At the present moment my PSA's in the hundreds. (CHUCKLES) Well, they say hope springs eternal in the human breast. (LAUGHS) SOMBRE MUSIC Last week 79-year-old Peter Williams QC returned to Auckland's old number one courtroom ` scene of his greatest trials and triumphs ` perhaps for the last time. I can still see, you know, the jury; I can see the learned judge up there; I can see my mates on the press bench. I love the feel of it. I couldn't wait till it was my turn. I was saturated in what I wanted to say. I just wanted to have my turn so I could get to that jury. So, it was your role to try and turn the jury always to your client. So, it was your role to try and turn the jury always to your client. Oh, absolutely. Always for an acquittal. Absolutely. You'd be failing in your duty as a barrister to do anything except strive for an acquittal. It would be monstrous. Would you still have that passion for an acquittal even if you suspected your client was guilty? To me, I have a professional duty. I am a barrister, and I must keep to the rules of the profession. And the rules of the profession are that you must do your best for your client. SOMBRE MUSIC The clients are gone now. The arguments are over. Peter Williams says he has just one more case to wrap up. You know, life moves on and we have many parts to play, and one of them is being old. (CHUCKLES) And try and do it all gracefully and... as calmly as you can. Yeah. Peter Williams says his best achievements aren't the big cases. He says they're the unknown ones, helping deserving people. Their stories are in a new book The Dwarf Who Moved. After the break ` Rod Stewart. # If you want my body, and you think I'm sexy, # come on, honey, tell me so. # < You've had some of the best. < You've had some of the best. That's true. Yes. < You didn't hang to them. Indeed. < Why? < Why? Well... Hello again. Rod Stewart's had more than five decades of hits, five wives and eight children. So how does a bloke who says his voice sounds like a concrete mixer still pull the crowds and charm the ladies? Here's Mike Willesee. # I would have given you all of my heart, # but there's someone torn it apart. When I first heard you sing, I thought this guy is not going to make it because he's got a sore throat. because he's got a sore throat. BOTH LAUGH My voice has had so many descriptions, it really has ` concrete mixer, combination of cigarette smoke and whisky. # The first cut is the deepest. # Baby, I know... # Your voice is so unusual, but it's worked for you. It has, and it's in great shape, and I look after it too. It's like gold dust to me. I mean, it's... I have to have the right amount of sleep, the right amount of water, the right amount of silence. Especially when you're getting on a bit. It's all right when you're 19. # But I'm as blind as fool can be. # You stole my heart, but I love you anyway. As you get older, you have got to warm it up, warm it down. # ...couldn't have tried any more. # So if you had it all again, what would be different? Nothing. Nothing at all. # Hot legs! Wearing me out. # Hot legs! You can scream and shout. # Hot legs! Are you still in school? # I love you, honey! Here we are at the old Forum, which is the new Forum now. They've spent lots of money on it. There's a picture of me there, look. Picture of me there. Is that you? Is that you? That's me in younger days. My goodness. Look at the hair. My goodness. Look at the hair. Yep, nothing's changed. # I love you, honey! # Your voice has this ability to be emotive. So how do you work on that? (EXHALES) You don't, mate. That is, uh` That is a gift from God that singers either have or don't have. You can work on it to a point, but I think it's something that's God given. It's the` For me, it's the hallmark of a good singer. # We are sailing. # We are sailing. Women, love, infidelity... Yeah. Yeah. < Why? Why write about it? Because I have experienced it. And I think when you write songs, you really must try and be as honest as you can. And I think it's easier to write about things you've experienced. # Tonight you better stay with me. # < Women. < Women. Yeah? < Women. Yeah? < 'Yeah', what? Come on, then, what's the question? (LAUGHS) I mean, it's like, you know, to a lot of guys, you know, you have got the dream life. You know, you are a rock star, everything looks easy, and you have these incredibly beautiful women. How do you do it? How do you do it? (LAUGHS) Well, it's... I've always said I am no different to any, you know, 19- or 20-year-old when I was that age. You're interested in women and cars and music, in not necessarily that order. And it came easy for me because I was in a rock group. The one thing I did learn ` I was not particularly good-looking, but if you are a singer in a rock group, you get the girls. So, you know, I worked at it. # If you want my body, and you think I'm sexy, # come on, honey, tell me so. # You've had some of the best. You've had some of the best. That's true, yes. You didn't hang on to them. You didn't hang on to them. Indeed. < Why? < Why? Well, I didn't find the right one... maybe. That is a broad question there ` 'why?' < Very. < Very. So it's hard to answer in one. < Sure, But was it their fault or your fault? My fault, absolutely. I always had a roving eye, you know. Totally my fault. # Tonight's the night. # It's gonna be all right. # So falling in love is wonderful and feels great, but falling out ` how did you handle that? (SIGHS) Um, not too well. In fact, terribly shabbily, to be honest with you. I was never` You know, I could confront somebody on the football pitch, but confront a woman and say, 'Look, it's over, darling, I've gotta move on.' I could never do that. So I would do it, you know, by disappearing or` never by telephone. I'd just disappear. < You just bolted? < You just bolted? Yeah, just run` I ran away. (LAUGHS) Nothing to be proud of, incidentally. # Have I told you lately # that I love you? # Have I told you # there's no one else above you? # One very special woman in your life has been your mother. One very special woman in your life has been your mother. Yeah. And I know she was sick for some time before she died. Did you have an opportunity to say goodbye to her? Did you have an opportunity to say goodbye to her? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I was` The one I missed actually passing was me dad. And he was more of an influence on me than my mum, because he was a Scot's guy. My brothers and I went to see the open casket, the three of us, and we had a good laugh with him, just talking to him, you know, in his coffin. And then we all came out and started bawling our eyes out, you know? What's been your happiest time? What's been your happiest time? Every day is happy, every day. I couldn't` I've had so many wonderful moments, you know. Not all to do with music, obviously. You know, seeing all my children be born was the highlight of my life. This is them. This is the new addition. For me, it's the fountain of youth, it really is. Oh, Renee! But if you were in the position of interviewing you, what would you ask? (SIGHS) 'Do you ever feel...? 'Do you ever feel that, you know, you should be packing it up? 'Whether you're too old or not?' It's something I think about a lot, you know` < Really? < Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because everything has to end. That really surprises me. What? That vulnerability that I think we all have? We're just humans` We're just humans` I mean, you're about to hit 70, I think. Yeah. > But you're still... There's no difference that I can see from you at 60 or 50. Yeah` Yeah` < Why are you worried about finishing? It's because everything` As I said, everything has to end. I can't do this when I'm 81. I hope not. I know... when I gave up playing football how I missed it so much. And I'm gonna miss doing what I do, even doing interviews. But as long as you're alive, you can still keep doing your thing. If there's an audience there for me, yes, I will. And if I've got the energy and the health to do it and the voice is there, I'll do it. # You make everyone better. # Ease my trouble, that's what you do. # Any good? Yep, pretty good. We're back after the break. So, just before we go, here's a look at a story we'll be bringing you soon ` a Waikato couple facing the cruellest blow, their incredible journey and the power of hope. MAN: I think a lot of people think that we've pushed it forward because of the disease, cos of Angela's disease, but that's not true, I don't think. This is something we'd be doing no disease. Yeah. We're not` Eh? We're not` Eh? Yeah. We're not` Eh? Yeah. Yeah. DRAMATIC MUSIC MELANCHOLY PIANO CHORDS So beautiful. That story coming soon on Sunday. Meanwhile, that's us for tonight. Join us on Facebook and Twitter. And thanks for joining us. Nga mihi nui, hei kona.