GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M SUSAN WOOD. ON THE PROGRAMME THIS SUNDAY ` THE FINAL ELECTION RESULTS ARE IN. A MANA MOVEMENT LEADER HONE HARAWIRA ON WHERE HIS CAMPAIGN WENT WRONG, AND WHERE HIS POLITICAL FUTURE GOES NOW. WE'LL EXAMINE HOW NATIONAL WILL GOVERN NOW IT NO LONGER HAS ITS MAJORITY. PLUS A LABOUR MP ANDREW LITTLE. THE SPECIAL VOTES HAVE CONFIRMED HIM AS A LIST MP. WILL HE NOW PUT HIS HAND UP TO BECOME LEADER OF HIS TROUBLED PARTY? THERE'S MORE BAD NEWS FOR DAIRY FARMERS. ANOTHER SLUMP IN INTERNATIONAL DAIRY PRICES. SO WHAT'S IN STORE FOR OUR FARMERS AND FOR THE REST OF US? WE SPEAK TO WEST COAST DAIRY FARMER KATIE MILNE. WE ALSO HAVE A REVEALING INTERVIEW WITH SIR DOUGLAS MYERS. HE REFLECTS ON A LIFE IN BUSINESS AND POLITICS HE REFLECTS ON A LIFE IN BUSINESS AND POLITICS AND FACING UP TO TERMINAL CANCER. WE'LL TAKE A LOOK BACK AT THE WEEK WITH DEPUTY POLITICAL EDITOR MICHAEL PARKIN AND ANALYSE ALL THE ISSUES WITH OUR PANEL POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR BRYCE EDWARDS, FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT MICHELLE BOAG AND FORMER LABOUR PARTY PRESIDENT MIKE WILLIAMS. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US. MORNING, MICHAEL. TO THE WEEK IN POLITICS ` AND THE FINAL ELECTION RESULTS ARE IN. NATIONAL HAS LOST ITS MAJORITY AND WILL HAVE TO DEPEND ON ACT, UNITED FUTURE OR THE MAORI PARTY TO GET ITS LEGISLATION PASSED. AND NATIONAL GOT IN EARLY, SIGNING DEALS WITH ACT AND UNITED FUTURE EARLIER THIS WEEK. FOR A START OFF, I WOULDN'T FORM A CONFIDENCE AND SUPPLY AGREEMENT WITH ANOTHER POLITICAL PARTY AND POLITICAL LEADER UNLESS I BELIEVED I COULD RELY ON THEM, WHETHER I THOUGHT THEY WOULD ADD VALUE. AND IN PETER'S CASE, HE CAN, AND I DO. AND, MIKE, THE DEAL WITH THE MAORI PARTY WILL BE SIGNED TODAY. HAVE THESE PARTIES MANAGED TO LEVERAGE THEIR POSITION? John Key did well to sign up to parties before they knew what bargaining power they have. Peter Dunne says it is a better deal than last term. You do have to hope the Maori party can do better this afternoon. . He can play them off. . It's a question of what's you can take back to your supporters. BUT, OF COURSE, IT'S LABOUR THAT'S DOMINATED THE NEWS. IS THE SUPPOSEDLY SEEMLY LEADERSHIP RACE ALREADY UNSEEMLY? It's going to be a manic month. But there is an opportunity for a third individual who doesn't have David Cunliffe's baggage. A lot of people are tapping Andrew little. That is questionable one. AND IT EVEN GOT DOWN TO DEBATING THE MEANING OF THE POLITICAL TERM 'BELTWAY'. IT'S AN AMERICAN POLITICAL TERM, ISN'T IT, SO PERHAPS SOMEONE'S BEEN WATCHING TOO MUCH 'WEST WING'. I CAN ASSURE YOU I HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH TIME TO WATCH ANY TV FOR MANY MONTHS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU CAN'T HAVE A CONTEST WITHOUT PEOPLE ROBUSTLY EXCHANGING THEIR VIEWS, BUT I HOPE WE KEEP IT SEEMLY. THE 1980S THINGS WERE MUCH WORSE THAN THIS. LOOK, WHENEVER THERE IS A LOSS BY A PARTY, THERE IS GOING TO BE A TIME OF TURBULENCE. SO THE SPECIAL VOTES HAVE BEEN COUNTED, AND IN THE FIERCELY CONTESTED MAORI SEAT OF TE TAI TOKERAU, KELVIN DAVIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS ITS MP, WITH A MAJORITY 1119 OVER HIS RIVAL, HONE HARAWIRA, LEADER OF THE MANA MOVEMENT. MR HARAWIRA IS WITH MICHAEL. Welcome Hone. Do you regret doing the deal with Kim Dotcom? No. I don't think I do. You don't think so? We have many children in poverty, and 25% of Maori are on the dole we need to try to get more Mps in the house. Was it a risk worth taking? Yes. I have received hundreds or thousands of e-mails, texts phone calls, including from the national party supporters. There needs to be a voice for the poor and dispossessed. That was Mana's role and will be its role. I didn't want to go in by myself. The aim was to broaden the kaupapa and increase the number of Mps. As far back as our AGM, if I went back in, I would have resigned. It's a tough job to do by yourself. So you would have quit this term? You are trying to build a legacy here. I think if we had been successful in what we are aiming for in bringing myself and Lila, we could have done wonderful things in Parliament for those who don't have a voice and to highlight those issues that get ignored in the pursuit of wealth for the few rather than the majority of Nzers. Have you talked to Kim Dotcom since the night? What did he say? He used the poison comments. We had an open discussion about how things could be managed better. I had lunch with Laila the same day. There is no point in wallowing. Is Internet Mana done? I appreciated working with Laila. I have seen her since the election. She and her party are working through and a lot of things. We are having a six-week review course. There is no point in continuing with the Alliance. Kim's involvement with the campaign did not help. Did you want that? You are angry about the e-mail. Did you try to keep him sidelined? No, I was not angry. That was an issue with Internet Party staff. In hindsight, his presence in the campaign could have been managed. I don't blame him. The mainstream media persecuted him. We were also by association. You must have known when you joined with him that it would be a point of attack for National. He pitted himself against John Key. If we could have managed the relationship better, with the moment of truth, it would have been better. If we had more focus on the election itself rather than on events. Many things could have been done better. It was a risk worth taking to grow the audience. We were not successful. But I would absolutely do it again. Do you blame Dotcom? No, not at all. Something my wife and teachers had talked about is the possibility of hosting Internet caps around the country and having Kim Dotcom speaking to people about using the internet to improve their community. There's no point in crying over spilt milk. Where do you go from here? Do you carry on as leader of Mana? We have had20 meetings in the last two weeks. Maybe 1500 people. So it keeps going. People expect a sombre farewell for Hone. It has turned into a religious revival. Let's get on with promoting the things that are important to our people. Where you stand in 2016? As long as there are still issues around housing and the homeless, I will strive. It will be me. So you will stand yourself. Maori party captured some us of the votes that Labour came to the middle. Will you need to mend those bridges? I have left the door open for those relationships to be nurtured. Members of the Maori party have told me they need to do this. When? It's not about an immediate merger. It's an understanding of options. If we stood together we could have got four or five of those seats. Te Ururoa Flavell will become a minister today. There could be you. I'm not here to be a minister. The issues are important and the people are important. You can do that whether or not you are a minister. The Greens are able to push issues through as opposition. Hopefully we'll see you again soon. Thank you. AND HONE HARAWIRA WILL BE BACK ON MARAE AT 10. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF. EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. UP NEXT ` ANDREW LITTLE. AND LATER ` WE LOOK BACK AT WHAT WAS MAKING THE POLITICAL NEWS THIS WEEK IN 1967. THE SPECIAL VOTES HAVE ALSO ENDED AN ANXIOUS WAIT FOR LABOUR MP ANDREW LITTLE, WHO JUST SCRAPED INTO PARLIAMENT ON LABOUR'S LIST. NOW THAT HIS SEAT IS SECURE, WILL HE ENTER THE CONTEST TO BE LABOUR'S NEXT LEADER? HE'S WITH MICHAEL. Feels like this should be a drum roll. Are you in this race? I've only just been confirmed as an MP. I have said because I have been asked by number of people to consider it. But I need to talk to many people first ` family, colleagues. I haven't made a decision. Would you say you are more or less likely to go for it? I couldn't say. This is in the context of our defeat. The party is undergoing a big review. Going back the last three elections. I think this is right. The unfortunate thing is that this leadership race is preceding our exercise of understanding more. What would you bring to the table? We need to work out what needs to change. We all have a job to do. My commitments. Regardless of that is to commit to rebuild the project Labour. Is that's what you offer that Grant Robertson and David Cunliffe do not? I know the party. I have been the party president. In my union work,I have had much contact with the corporate sector. We need to listen to those that works. People in the party need to listen. We will need a leader who can lead that listening project as we understand what has changed in NZ is and how we need to change to match that. You win n support either David Cunliffe? I don't think there is any question about whether votes will go. The question is what I can contribute. That's where I'm at. In terms of votes, I don't think they are guarantees into the party membership. What does the party need? What does the Labour Party needs to get back? The biggest thing that will happen aside from any review ` which will be us talking to ourselves ` is getting out, talking and listening to people outside the party. The two people who have or have not voted for us. People have have e-mailed us why they didn't vote for us. We need to get to grips with the fact that there have been changes in NZ that we don't understand. We need to go to where people are bowls clubs, sports clubs talk to people in their environment. Are the policies wrong? My intuition for this election is a combination of some big policies which meant changes for people and gay campaigning. People retreated into security. They want to know they have a job. The superannuation policy and a capital gains tax was too scary. You'll get rid of those? That's not for me to say. These are just my intuitions. Maybe we haven't campaigned enough on them. We need to revisit them and see why people reacted in the way they did. In terms of Grant and David, are they toO Beltway? They are both very talented. They have strong intellectual capabilities. The leadership contest We have is laid out, and people make a choice. The race is now on. I was clear last time that I wouldn't say who I support. I have been preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. This Monday I could have cleared out my office, and that would have been it. Circumstances have changed. The latest news means I should consider putting my hat in the ring. Are you talking to Stuart Nash? I will be talking to all of my colleagues. The deadline is 14 October. It is school holidays. I would like to take my wife and kid away for a bit. Taking holidays as the prospective Labour leader is dangerous. Thank you very much. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL NOW. POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR BRYCE EDWARDS FROM OTAGO UNIVERSITY, FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT MICHELLE BOAG AND FORMER LABOUR PARTY PRESIDENT MIKE WILLIAMS. Bryce? Last week, Grant looks like he could win this. That is changed. Grant has been damaged by the Beltway Grant thing. He could bring on a bloodbath in labour. I'm almost ready to call it for Andrew Little. He will probably win. He will have the unions behind him. They will switch anger behind little. Little is the anti-Beltway candidates. We just saw his pitch that he is connected with the private sector and the working class. He is a bit more left-wing. He was to ditch the superannuation fund. Behind-the-scenes, the Cunliffe people and the union people and Cunliffe's people are talking. It would be a good place for him to bow out if he can get behind little. He has not got a chance. The tide has turned. I don't think there's any dignity left for Cunliffe. That was a skilled job interview. Humble. More sense in that interview than anything I've seen in the Labour Party in the last two weeks. I agree with Bryce. I think Little will stand. I agree that David Cunliffe doesn't operate in reality. He operates in another world where he still has a chance. I don't know if you will come to his senses. It is game on. He agrees with David Shearer who twice has said the leadership campaign is too earlyand we need to listen. Therefore they had to do. I agree. It is time to get a large number of candidates. There is no time to split votes like David Parker and Stuart Nash. David Cunliffe is no longer a viable leader of the Labour Party. That decision is being made in the party with the unions and caucus. The question of who is next is where we are. Last Monday, Cunliffe said he was going back in the ring. I told him. People don't like him. And he doesn't feel authentic Now I feel sorry for him. He is an object of pity. Why does he not get this? I don't know. There is a principle in politics if you are defeated, you go. When Michelle is president of the National party got 20%, she left. Andrew Little replaceD me. That message has got to get through. It is a good time for him to leave with dignity. People have spoken on that. Little isn't the perfect candidates. None of them are. He did not win New Plymouth and didn't do well on the party vote. That neither did Grant Robertson. Is that really an issue? People are talking about Andrew Little being the Rongotai candidate. There is a bit of moral strength when you can win your seat and it is rare for a leader to not win his seat. The exception was Don brash with the national party, but he had A big profile. In the dealings I have had with people in the Labour Party Andrew Little has made an effort to understand business and corporate relationships. His years in the private sector have given him an understanding of NZ society. He understands that changes have happened in NZ but we don't understand them. Labour is factionalised. WILL Little will unite them? As president of the Labour Party, I did not know about this factionalism. There is a general spectrum from right to left, but there are not factions Things are managed. Think back to when John Key took over and extended the olive branch to Bill English. That was when the national party can together. At the time, I thought it was a big call. But it was the right call when you can reach alliance in a party. You need to be moving an obvious direction. Labour is not. Let's talk about Hone Harawira. That was a lovely interview. He is a voice for the poor. He is a special politician. We saw him being defiant. He was not going back on his alliance with .Com. And he will be back in 2017. I think he will be back in Te Tai Tokerau. But not sure whether it is the Mana or joint mana Maori party I will miss Hone Harawira. He had commitment and colour and passion. But he leads the Mana Maori movement to disaster. If you put the Maori party electorates together in most votes they beat Labour. The remaking of a Maori/mana movement will not happen while Te ururoa Flavell is in the Maori party. So that's won't happen? I think that's less of a problem. If people wanted to happen, they will push those two leaders together. In the long term, there will be problems. Maoridom is not united. There is a working-class and middle-class. Hone was defeated by a very good candidate he has a future in the leadership of the Labour Party. There is not just a split between Labour and Maori. He was up against a strong candidate. We should talk about Shane Jones as well. He will be back. 2017? I'm not sure. But he'll either be back as a successor to Winston Peters or bring Maori interests together and bring them left or right depending on who is this from running the country. Te Ururoa Flavell and Hone Harawira would be a powerful alliance. UP NEXT ` INTERNATIONAL DAIRY PRICES ARE DOWN AGAIN. HOW WILL OUR DAIRY FARMERS COPE, AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE REST OF THE ECONOMY? KATIE MILNE FROM FEDERATED FARMERS IS NEXT. INTERNATIONAL DAIRY PRICES TUMBLED AGAIN THIS WEEK, SINKING TO THEIR LOWEST LEVEL IN FIVE YEARS. ANALYSTS SAY DEMAND HAS FALLEN, MAINLY DUE TO RUSSIA'S BAN ON IMPORTING DAIRY PRODUCTS FROM SOME WESTERN COUNTRIES. FOR WHAT IT ALL MEANS FOR US, I'M JOINED NOW BY DAIRY FARMER AND FEDERATED FARMERS WEST COAST PROVINCIAL PRESIDENT, KATIE MILNE. There's not one story for farmers. It just depends on how highly geared you are in debt. With highly geared debt, it's going to be a struggle going forward. The top 25%, the worst part about that is that they were our youngest and brightest. Last year, they would've made the decision business is good enough to go and get a job and buy a farm so they get is very very high. But this would've been on the 650 mark. That of course is gone through the floor. With the banks get behind these people? We can't afford to lose them. The banks will get behind them. This will be the good thing. But they need to work with their banks. Generally, they will come through. The impact of this on the rest of the community? Especially the small rural towns will suffer as the farmers cut their budgets. There will definitely be a noticeable drop as farmers cut back on repairs and maintenance. Of course we've got China and Russia. Could this have been difficult to foresee? Of course. We have a lot of products now that are displaced. This is out of left field altogether. But we have seen a rise in prices through the years. The everyone jumps into it and depresses the prices over time. It's Russia that's made the drop so substantially right now. The world demand for dairy products going forward is huge. It grows year on year on year. That is required. Were actually talking but very sophisticated product. There are basic powders but most of them have high specs. The upside if there is it that the dollar is down. Yes, we do prefer to see the dollar at the lower level. On the other side, it does have a bit of an impact on fuel prices etc. You think it will put overseas investors off? Will it push the prices down? I don't think it will have an impact much. Even if it has had an impact it will have an impact, it does come back and the markets are well aware that. 12 months forward looks grim? Yes but it will pick up. We will bounce back. UP NEXT ` TVNZ'S EUROPE CORRESPONDENT JESSICA MUTCH INTERVIEWS NZ BUSINESSMAN SIR DOUGLAS MYERS, FACING UP TO A DIAGNOSIS OF TERMINAL CANCER. I THINK JUST THE SHOCK OF HEARING SOMEONE SAY FOR YOU, 'THAT'S THE TIME,' INDUCED QUITE AN AMAZING EMOTIONAL RESPONSE, AND ONE GOT QUITE WEEPY. ONE OF OUR BIGGEST NAMES IN BUSINESS, SIR DOUGLAS MYERS, HAS TERMINAL CANCER. SIR DOUGLAS WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE BUSINESS ROUNDTABLE, WHERE HE LOBBIED HARD FOR FREE-MARKET REFORMS ` REFORMS THAT REMAIN CONTROVERSIAL TO THIS DAY. HE GREW HIS FAMILY'S LIQUOR BUSINESS, LION BREWERIES, INTO A TRANS-TASMAN SUCCESS, WHICH HE LATER SOLD. HE NOW LIVES IN LONDON BUT MAINTAINS AN INTEREST IN NZ BY OFFERING A CAMBRIDGE SCHOLARSHIP TO A NZ STUDENT EVERY YEAR. TVNZ'S EUROPE CORRESPONDENT, JESSICA MUTCH, SPOKE TO HIM JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION. SHE ASKED WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE TOLD HE ONLY HAD A SHORT TIME TO LIVE. WELL, THE DOCTOR TOLD ME I HAD, UNTREATED, WELL, THE DOCTOR TOLD ME I HAD, UNTREATED, TWO AND A HALF MONTHS BEFORE MY BODY STARTED BREAKING DOWN. AS PRETTY MUCH, I THOUGHT, MOST OF US WOULD, I THOUGHT OF DEATH, IF EVER. AT 75, IT CAN'T BE THAT FAR AWAY. BUT, I THINK, IN SPITE OF THAT, I THINK JUST THE SHOCK OF HEARING SOMEONE SAY, 'YOU... THAT'S THE TIME,' INDUCED QUITE AN AMAZING EMOTIONAL RESPONSE. ONE GOT QUITE WEEPY, AND, UM,... MY WIFE GOT VERY UPSET. AFTER ABOUT THREE WEEKS, I HAD TO GO BACK AND SEE THE DOCTOR, AND HE SAID, 'HOW ARE YOU?' I SAID, 'I'M COPING OK. 'I'VE COME TO TERMS WITH DEATH. NO BIG DEAL ANY MORE. 'LET'S GET ON WITH IT.' HE SAID, 'OH, YOU CAN'T TALK LIKE THAT.' AND I SAID, 'PIPE DOWN. 'YOU DO THE MEDICAL STUFF; I'LL DO THE OTHER STUFF.' BECAUSE FOR ME, WHAT I FOUND WAS ONCE I'D COME TO TERMS WITH THE REALITY OF WHAT I HAD, THEN I COULD PUT MY FULL STRENGTH INTO COMBATING IT AND TRY TO PUT IT OFF LONGER THAN OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. AND I THINK, AS A PATIENT, THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO. ARE YOU FRIGHTENED OF DEATH? NO, NOT AT ALL. WHY NOT? I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING TO BE FRIGHTENED ABOUT. I MEAN, I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE THE OTHER DAY AND SAID IF ONE WAS A COMMITTED MUSLIM, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A VERY JOYOUS THING ` THE CONTEMPLATION ` ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE MALE ` ALL THE DEALING WITH THE 72 VIRGINS. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT, AND I THINK ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS, FOR ME, ABOUT BEING IN A POSITION THAT I'VE BEEN IN IN THE LAST YEAR, IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO THINK THROUGH WHATEVER PURPOSE LIFE MIGHT HAVE. AND IF YOU DON'T THINK THERE'S A GREATER PURPOSE AFTER, HAVING THAT TIME, I THINK, GIVES YOU A SENSE OF QUIET ORDER FOR ASSESSMENT OF WHAT YOUR LIFE HAS MEANT TO YOU, TO THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU, WHICH, IF YOU HAD A STROKE OR A HEART ATTACK AND DIED, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE. SO FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, AT MY AGE, I'M ACTUALLY VERY GLAD TO HAVE CANCER. YOU TALK ABOUT THAT RUSH OF EMOTION YOU FELT. WAS THAT ABOUT YOUR FAMILY? WAS THAT ABOUT YOUR SUCCESSES`? NO, I THINK, FOR ME, IT WAS MAINLY ABOUT ME, ACTUALLY. I THINK, AT TIMES LIKE THAT, IT'S PERFECTLY NATURAL TO FOCUS ON YOURSELF ` SELF-PRESERVATION. AND FOR ME, IT WASN'T THE FACT THAT I WAS GONNA DIE. I MEAN, AT 75, I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT... PROBABLY PRETTY THOROUGHLY. BUT WHEN YOU'RE GIVEN THAT NEWS, IT SORT OF SUDDENLY PUTS A DATE ON IT. NOW, THE DATE MIGHT BE TWO MONTHS, MIGHT BE TWO WEEKS, MIGHT BE TWO YEARS OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU DO HAVE A DATE, AND THAT'S WHAT I FOUND THE DIFFERENCE IS ` THAT YOU ARE CONTEMPLATING DEATH, WITH AN ENDPOINT. WHEREAS IF YOU'RE JUST 75, YOU CONTEMPLATE DEATH SOMETIME BUT REALLY WITH NOT MUCH MORE URGENCY THAN IF YOU WERE 50 OR 40 OR 30. SO AS I SAID, THAT GIVES YOU A TIME TO ASSESS YOUR LIFE, TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THINGS THAT MAY BE UNTIDY, UNPLEASANT ` IF YOU'VE GOT RELATIONSHIPS THAT COULD BE BETTER. AND REALLY JUST DEALING WITH IT IN THE WAY THAT YOU DEALT WITH THE LIVING PART OF YOUR LIFE. SO THIS IS THE DEALING WITH THE DYING PART OF YOUR LIFE. SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT FORTUNE FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO HAVE DONE THAT. HOW HAVE YOU ASSESSED YOUR LIFE? WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY, WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT? I WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING. I THINK THOSE ARE ZERO-SUM GAMES TO PLAY. HAD I BEEN BRIGHTER, THEN I MIGHT HAVE DONE SOMETHING. BUT I WASN'T. SO THAT'S WHY I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE IN NZ, FOR INSTANCE, SEEM TO BE UNHAPPY MOST OF THE TIME, BECAUSE THEY'RE CONTEMPLATING ON THE OTHER GUY AND SAYING, 'LOOK, IF ONLY I WAS SMARTER THAN I AM; 'IF ONLY I HAD MORE MONEY THAN I AM; 'IF ONLY I'VE GOT A BIGGER FARM THAN I'VE GOT.' YOU KNOW, THE ENVY AND STUFF IS ONLY GONNA MAKE PEOPLE UNHAPPY, AND I DON'T WANNA BE UNHAPPY ` CERTAINLY NOT AT MY AGE. I THINK DEALING WITH WHAT YOU'VE GOT AND MAKING THE BEST OF WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS REALLY WHAT LIFE'S ABOUT. AND TO HAVE A CHANCE TO RUMINATE OVER THAT AND THINK ABOUT IT ` NOT IN SAYING I SHOULD'VE DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY BUT MAINLY SAYING, IF YOU CAN SAY ` HOW LUCKY I WAS TO HAVE TAKEN THAT RISK WHEN I TOOK IT OR HOW LUCKY I WAS TO MEET THAT WOMAN WHEN I MET HER OR WHATEVER. AND I THINK THOSE THAT CAN DIE HAPPILY ARE THOSE WHO CAN COME TO TERMS WITH THEIR LIVES IN A POSITIVE WAY AND DON'T GO OUT WISHING AND WHINGEING THAT THEY'D DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY. YOUR GRANDMOTHER SAID NO MALE IN HER FAMILY HAS EVER FAILED. YOU WERE ALWAYS GOING TO SUCCEED, WEREN'T YOU? WELL, IT WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD KICK IN THE BUM FOR ME, BECAUSE I WASN'T PARTICULARLY ACADEMICALLY FOCUSED AT 13 OR WHENEVER SHE SAID IT TO ME. BUT THE MEMORY THAT SHE HAD SAID TO ME STAYED WITH ME FOR PROBABLY ABOUT 40 YEARS. A BIT OF FEAR INJECTED AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY BE VERY VERY POSITIVE. IS THAT THE FEAR OF LIVING UP TO YOUR FAMILY NAME? YEAH, I THINK. OR JUST... YEAH, FAMILY NAME AND ALL THAT. IT'S JUST ALL MIXED UP TOGETHER. IF YOU COULD TELL YOURSELF... YOUR YOUNG SELF HAD JUST COME BACK TO NZ FROM CAMBRIDGE. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL HIM? WELL, I WOULD SAY, 'YOU READ IT PRETTY WELL.' I MEAN, NZ... YEAH, I CAME BACK AS PART OF AN OLD FAMILY THAT HAD BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 100 YEARS, AND THEREFORE SHOULD'VE BEEN PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT AND GONE INTO GOLF CLUB IN THE RACING CLUB AND ALL THOSE THINGS. WELL, I WAS A MEMBER OF THEM ALL, BUT I NEVER WENT ONCE IN 40 YEARS. AND I FIND MYSELF ON THE SIDE ACTUALLY OF THE RADICALS ` PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO CHANGE THINGS. I'M NOT A CONSERVATIVE, BUT IF THINGS ARE WRONG, THEY HAVE TO BE CHANGED. IN TERMS OF YOUR ROLE IN THE BUSINESS ROUNDTABLE, DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE JUDGING NZ INTO A NEW ERA DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE DRAGGING NZ INTO A NEW ERA KICKING AND SCREAMING? NO, NOT REALLY. I MEAN, IN THE EARLY '80S, MY INTEREST BEGAN. IT WASN'T A QUESTION OF DRAGGING NZ ANYWHERE EXCEPT OUT OF THE MUCK. I MEAN, NZ WAS SORT OF STUFFED. YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD POLITICAL PARTIES COME AND GO; THINGS WERE PROMISED; NOTHING WAS EVER TAKEN ON BOARD; NO ONE, POLITICALLY, HAD THE COURAGE OR UNDERSTANDING TO DO IT. AND I THINK THERE WERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT, A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN CIVIL SERVICE AND A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN BUSINESS WHO GOT TIRED OF SEEING NZ UNDERPERFORM RELATIVE TO ITS POTENTIAL. AND I THINK UNTIL THERE'S A SENSE OF CRISIS AND A SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING AND A COMMON APPROACH BY A GROUP OF PEOPLE, WE AREN'T GOING TO GET SIGNIFICANT CHANGE, AND NZ NEEDED IT. I MEAN PEOPLE ` CLARK AND CO ` WHO CONTINUALLY REFERRED TO DAVIS' CHANGED ECONOMIC REFORMS TO DAVIS' FAILED ECONOMIC REFORMS ALTHOUGH SHE DIDN'T CHANGE MANY OF THEM ` REALLY HAD NOTHING TO OFFER. THERE'S NOT MUCH ON OFFER IN NZ AT THE MOMENT, QUITE FRANKLY. WITH OUR CURRENT STOCK OF POLITICIANS, YOU MEAN? NO, I MEAN, I THINK KEY AND ENGLISH HAVE DONE A REMARKABLY GOOD JOB IN THE QUIET WAY THEY HAVE TURNED WHAT WAS DEVELOPING INTO ANOTHER BASKET CASE INTO AN ECONOMY THAT COULD STAND ON ITS OWN TWO FEET, PROVIDED CITIZENS WITH THE MATERIAL AND OTHER THINGS THAT THEY WANT. AND YET, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE ELECTION FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF LONDON, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING MUCH THAT YOU'D WASTE YOUR TIME ON. THE HERALD, THE OTHER DAY, HAD NINE KEY ELECTION POINTS AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING ABOUT UPGRADING NZ'S PERFORMANCE. IT WAS ALL SILLY STUFF ` YOU KNOW, GAME-PLAYING. YOU TALK ABOUT REFORMS ` YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY HEAVILY IN THEM IN THE '80S AND THE '90S ` ARE THERE ANY ASPECTS NOW, LOOKING BACK, YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY? I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT TIME. IT BENEFITED A LOT. BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE LOST THEIR JOBS. WOULD YOU HAVE TWEAKED IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY? INEVITABLY. INEVITABLY. BUT I'M NOT GONNA GO BACK TO WHAT I COULD'VE DONE DIFFERENTLY, BUT IF YOU DON'T LEARN FROM WHAT OBVIOUSLY WAS A FAILURE... BECAUSE TO A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE, THEY WEREN'T CARRIED ALONG. AND YOU REGRET THAT? YEAH, I DO. I MEAN, I THINK IF YOU LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY, PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF IT. OTHERWISE, LONG-TERM, THOSE WHO ARE DOING THE REFORMS WON'T BE THERE. YOU CAN SEE IN FRANCE; YOU CAN SEE IN ITALY THEY'VE GOT EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM. THEY CAN'T CARRY THE PEOPLE. WHO ARE THE LEADERS YOU THINK SHOULD BE LEADING NZ? I THINK KEY AND... I THINK KEY'S DONE VERY WELL. HE'S NOT A GREAT POLICY PERSON, BUT THEN MAYBE HE UNDERSTANDS NZ A LOT BETTER THAN WE DID. HOW ARE YOU PLANNING TO SPEND YOUR LAST FEW MONTHS? WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU NOW? IF YOU'D ASKED ME THAT A YEAR AGO, I MIGHT HAVE SAID GOING TO BEACH AND HAVING THE ODD ICE CREAM. BUT TODAY THE DOCTOR TOLD MY WIFE MAYBE I MIGHT LIVE... FIVE OR SIX, SEVEN YEARS. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, THERE ARE SO MANY DEVELOPMENTS GOING ON, AND I THINK THAT'S THE STORY FOR ANYONE WHO GETS CANCER. I KNOW TWO LOTS OF PEOPLE ` ONE WHO TALKED ABOUT IT A BIT AND ONES WHO DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT AT ALL. AND I THINK, IN THIS DAY AND AGE WHERE THE DEVELOPMENTS IN SCIENCE AND MEDICINE ARE JUST SO PROFOUND, THAT ANYONE WHO GETS CANCER SHOULD REALLY KNOW THAT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF LIFE TO BE LIVED. THEY SHOULDN'T GET SO DEPRESSED. IT ISN'T A DEATH ` AN IMMEDIATE DEATH WARRANT AT ALL. BUT IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, THERE WILL BE. BUT IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND GO TO THE DOCTOR FROM TIME TO TIME AND YOU GET CHECK-UPS AND STUFF, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE DIAGNOSED WITH IT, YOU CAN STILL PROBABLY GET QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS. AND IN SOME CASES, YOU CAN BE CURED. SO IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT. SO NOT QUITE TIME FOR THE BEACH FULL-TIME AND ICE CREAM JUST YET. THAT'S A NICE PLACE TO LEAVE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. PLEASURE. ENJOYED IT. OUR FINAL PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. WE'VE GOT NATIONAL'S RESHUFFLE TO DISCUSS PLUS WE LOOK BACK AT WHAT WAS MAKING POLITICAL NEWS THIS WEEK IN HISTORY. THE 6 O'CLOCK SWILL WAS ABOUT TO COME TO AN END, BUT WHICH PART OF THE COUNTRY HAD BEEN IGNORING THE LIQUOR LAWS FOR YEARS? THAT'S NEXT. LET'S BRING OUR PANEL BACK IN NOW. Those are two great interviews. That's my rave for today. What happens to Paula Bennett? That's really interesting one. I don't which is going to pick up the associate finance portfolio. My understanding is she's not going to pick up health or justice instead. Maybe Jonathan Coleman will pick up health. What's going to be interesting is that we finally got the results yesterday and nationals lost majority. It's a bit of a push for national in the direction it will be going they do take it more cautiously. Less bravado even more so. Do you think so, Michelle? Now they can use whichever one they want to. They've got options. I don't know what Bryce means about centrist in peace. In the national party they're all centrist. John key brought in a very big tail. They're all very grateful to them and they will behave. Yes, there's a couple of things they wanna get through, but John key is not going to take his eye off that middle ground. That is what will keep them there. what about RMA reform? There's one little vote to go. And they'll get through. There's always going to be controversy in all the stuff they do. At the end of the day, I think the economic stability is what people want to know. They've got to have faith that the government is going to keep things on a pretty stable level. Mike, do you like the look of Paula Bennett? No, I don't like the look of it at all. I think she's done a lot of damage. She has pulled up the ladder that she's climbed up on. She would be wrong to argue against me on that. Two very big elephant in this room. Dairy prices were at 5.20 before the latest 10% drop. That takes it down to 480. That's one big elephant in the room. We have to deal with that. There is a bumper harvest of the northern hemisphere that will depress prices further. Second elephant is the property bubble in Auckland. When has it ever burst? Who can say. Souffles never rise for ever. They sort of stalled for little bit and go a little bit back down but they go back up again. What people fail to appreciate is that when you've got this property boom, there's a whole lot of people out there who love it. There's a whole lot of people who like it and love it. I'm just saying bubbles burst. Dairy prices is an important one. It will have a huge effect on the economy. There will be more calls for diversification in the economy. It will be interesting to see how economic growth will be affected by it. Let's talk about the Islamic state and Isis. Whatever they're called. Probably a phone call or maybe? I think we're in a caretaker now. John key is going to feel a bit of obligation to bring something to the table. The SAS guys will probably replicate that role in Afghanistan etc. I think there is a level of responsibility to do something along those lines. There's the main areas that you have to move on ` anti-imperialism. That we shouldn't be invading other countries. I don't know how people should be feeling about that. And the beheadings. And the question of the NZ troops suffering. It is going to bring NZ into vulnerability? It's a very difficult one, and I think Michael's read of the politics of it is probably about right. The question is can you look at the brutality and stand back and say we not going to do anything? Especially when were out there campaigning for a seat at the United Nations. If were saying were strong little country and we represent the interests of a whole lot of little missions around the world, I think we need to put our money where our mouth is. But I preferred humanitarian area rather than boots on the ground. I believe that would make much of a difference. But this is a real mess. This was done by George Bush the the first we don't have time to fix that. BEFORE WE GO, LET'S LOOK BACK AT WHAT WAS MAKING POLITICAL NEWS THIS WEEK IN 1967. THE 6 O'CLOCK SWILL OFFICIALLY CAME TO AN END ON OCTOBER THE 9TH AFTER THE GOVERNMENT PASSED A LAW TO ALLOW PUBS TO SHUT AT 10 O'CLOCK. 6 O'CLOCK CLOSING WAS SET IN LAW DURING WORLD WAR I, BUT THE CAMPAIGN TO GET RID OF IT HAD BEEN GROWING STRONGLY IN THE 60S ` EXCEPT ON THE WEST COAST, WHERE THEY'D BEEN IGNORING THE LAW FOR YEARS. IAN JOHNSTONE FILED THIS REPORT IN OCTOBER 1965. THE COASTERS HAVE SHOWN THEIR TRADITIONAL INDEPENDENCE WITH REGARD TO LIQUOR LICENSING. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SELF-IMPOSED CODE OF LICENSING LAWS WHICH HAS COME TO BE ACCEPTED AND IS RESPECTED BY THEM. THE SWILL DOES NOT EXIST. ON THE COAST, WE DO HAVE CIVILISED HOURS, AND THE PUBS ARE OPEN ALL DAY. BUT THEY CLOSE AGAIN AT QUARTER PAST 6, PEOPLE GO HOME AND HAVE A MEAL AND THEN COME AND PLAY BOWLS OR DARTS AND MEET THEIR FRIENDS. AND THEY CLOSE AGAIN AT 11 ` 11 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT. THE COMMON IMAGE IS THAT THE WEST COAST IS AN AREA OF DRUNKENNESS, WOULD YOU SAY? OH, I'D SAY IT POSSIBLY COULD BE, BUT PEOPLE KNOW NO DIFFERENT. I'LL HAVE TO THROW THAT AT YOU. HAVE YOU BEEN HERE IN THE COAST VERY LONG? I'VE BEEN HERE NOT VERY LONG, BUT I'VE BEEN HERE TWO OR THREE OCCASIONS, YES. WELL, THEN HAVE YOU SEEN ANY DRUNKENNESS? NO, CERTAINLY NOT. WELL, IAN, I HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF 6 O'CLOCK CLOSING? I THINK 6 O'CLOCK CLOSING'S TERRIBLE. GIVE US 10 O'CLOCK. WHAT DO YOU THINK? (CHUCKLES) PEOPLE SPEAK AT ONCE I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY GOOD AT ALL. GIVE US 11 O'CLOCK. LAUGHTER MARAE IS NEXT, REVISITING MOTITI ISLAND THREE YEARS AFTER THE RENA DISASTER. AND ON Q+A NEXT WEEK, MICHAEL WILL BE SPEAKING TO PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS, AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT NINE. CAPTIONS BY GLENNA CASALME AND TOM WILSON. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2014