NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. LooPvnueo-rrmmmq NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. KIA ORA, GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO 3RD DEGREE. TONIGHT, THERE'S PLENTY MORE FISH IN THE SEA, RIGHT? NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. I OR IS SOMEONE BUSY CATCHING THEM? I < IS IT UPSETTING TO SEE THAT AMOUNT OF FISH GO OVER THE SIDES DEAD? THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE FISH GOING BACK DEAD. IT'S TERRIBLE. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN. I ALSO, BANKSIE VERSUS DOTCOM. I I WOULD NEVER... NEVER KNOWINGLY FILE A FALSE ANYTHING. I MR BANKS ls LYING, NOT ME. I AND MAN'S BEST FRIEND - CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? WHO WOULD WANT TO EATA DOG? OK, ANYONE WHO'S EVER TRIED TO CATCH A SNAPPER KNOWS THAT THE FISHERY IS SLOWLY REBUILDING, BUT IT JUST ISN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE, NOT LIKE IT WAS FOR OUR PARENTS OR OUR GRANDPARENTS. THAT'S RIGHT. CATCHING ANYTHING REQUIRES A WHOLE LOT OF PATIENCE AND A WHOLE LOT OF SKILLS, SO THE BIG QUESTION IS WHY? ARE THERE SIMPLY TOO MANY OF US OR TOO MANY RECREATIONAL FISHERS? OR IS IT THE COMMERCIAL TRAWL BOATS THAT ARE SCOOPING UP EVERYTHING THAT MOVES, INCLUDING FISH THAT THEY DON'T WANTAND THEY DON'T NEED. MICHAEL MORRAH HAS BEEN INVESTIGATING. I OMINOUS D MUSIC I THE STARK REALITY OF WASTE FROM A COMMERCIAL TRAWL NET. THESE ARE NZ PICTURES - UNDERSIZED SNAPPER OFF THE NAPIER COAST. I MUSIC CONTIMJES I WHAT WE HAVE ON OUR DOORSTEP IS VERY SPECIAL, BUT IT'S NOT BEING TREASURED. ALL WE'VE GOT TO DO IS STOP KILLING UP TO 40% TO 50% OF OUR JUVENILE FISH. A LARGE PROPORTION OF FISH CAUGHT BY TRAWLERS ARE TOO SMALL. THEY HAVE TO BE THROWN BACK, AND ALMOST ALL OF THEM WILL NEVER SWIM AGAIN. IT'S TERRIBLE. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN. TRAWLERS DRAG A NET ALONG THE SEA FLOOR, HOOVERING UP EVERYTHING THAT'S THERE. AND AS THE FISH ARE PULLED ALONG, THEYARE CRUSHED BY THE WEIGHT OF OTHER FISH I AND BY THE FORCE OF THE WATER. I DON'T HAVE TO WASTE THAT FISH. DON'T HAVE TO KILL THAT FISH. THE BOTTOM TRAWL IS A FAMILIAR METHOD OF FISHING FOR ERIC HIKUWAI. HE'S BEEN A COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN FOR MORE THAN 4O YEARS. DO YOU THINK MOST NZERS WOULD BE SURPRISED BY THE AMOUNT OF WASTE THATS GOING ON OUT THERE? > I DON'T THINK THE AVERAGE NZER KNOWS WHAT ACTUALLY GOES ON. Lomuous wsucl ERIC DIDN'T GIVE US THESE IMAGES, BUT HE SAYS HE'S SEEN DAMAGE LIKE THIS MANY TIMES BEFORE I ON HIS OWN VESSELAND ON OTHERS. I HOW OFTEN IS IT GOING ON? > ON HIS OWN VESSELAND ON OTHERS. HOW OFTEN IS IT GOING ON? > IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. DOES IT HAPPEN EVERY TRIP YOU MAKE? > IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. DOES IT HAPPEN EVERY TRIP YOU MAKE? > IBIRDS SQUAWKI THE FISHING GROUND OUT THE FRONT OF ERIC'S PLACE IS PART OF WHAT'S CALLED SNAPPER 1. IT STRETCHES FROM THE BAY OF PLENTY'S CAPE RUNAWAY, RIGHT UP NORTHLAND'S EAST COAST AND IS THE MOST POPULAR FISHERY IN THE COUNTRY. Luovronwnuansl IT'S A FAMILIAR PLACE FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS OF RECREATIONAL FISHERS, INCLUDING SCOTT MACINDOE AND RICHARD BAKER, MEMBERS OF THE ADVOCACY GROUP LEGASEA. RICHARD AND SCOTT ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT FISHING... <i>I</i> THAT us A GOOD SIZE PAN SNAPPER. <i>I</i> ...BUT THEIR WAY OF FISHING, NOT THE COMMERCIAL WAY. WHAT CONCERNS YOU THE MOSTABOUT THE COMMERCIAL FISHING INDUSTRY? THEIR REFUSAL TO ACKNOWLEDGE HOW MANY SMALL FISH THEY'VE BEEN KILLING FOR THE LAST 4O YEARS AND THE IMPACT THAT THAT SINGLE TRAWL METHOD HAS HAD ON THE PRODUCTMTY OF THE GULF. RICHARD BAKER TAKES THE UTMOST CARE WHEN HE'S FISHING. HE USES BIG HOOKS TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF JUVENILES HE CATCHES. AND FOR ANY HE HAS TO RELEASE, HE HANDLES THEM WITH A WET CLOTH SO AS NOT TO DAMAGE THEM. THAT'S IS A NEAR- VERY CLOSE TO 3OCM SNAPPER, BUT WE'LL SEND HIM BACK TO GROWA LITTLE BIT BIGGER AND TO GIVE US A BETTER FILLET. (GRUNTS) WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR DOING A SIMILAR SORT OF THING. BUT THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR WON'T BE DOING THAT. UNDER NEW RULES, 3OCM IS NOW THE MINIMUM LEGAL SIZE FOR RECREATIONAL ANGLERS. THAT WOULD BE 25CM, WOULDN'T IT, SCOTT? THE COMMERCIAL FLEET CAN STILL TAKE FISH AS SMALL AS 25CM. THE REALITY IS IT'S LEGAL FOR COMMERCIAL TO THEN HARVEST FISH AT THAT LEVEL I AND SELL THEM TO THE PUBLIC. I SO THERE'S SORT OF A MIXED STANDARD THERE. I SO WHICH SIDE IS CATCHING MOST?I I WELL, n" DEPENDS ON wno YOU ASK. I BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S ABOUT 50/50, EVEN THOUGH THE COMMERCIAL ALLOCATION IS HIGHER. RICHARD AND SCOTT SAY WHAT THEY DO IS SUSTAINABLE AND THEY WANT TRAWLERS SHUT OUT OF ALL INSHORE AREAS IN SNAPPER 1. THIS IS A RENOWNED JUVENILE NURSERY FOR SNAPPER, SO WHY WOULD YOU RUN TRAWL GEAR ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT? BUT YOU TALK ABOUT WASTE IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR, BUT SURELY RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN ARE WASTING A HUGE A HUGE AMOUNT AS WELL. WE HAVE NO IDEA IF THAT FISH THAT YOU THAT JUST PUT BACK OVER THE SIDE IS GOING TO SURVIVE OR NOT. UH, WE'VE GOT OUR PART TO DO, ALL RIGHT. THERE'S NO QUESTION THERE. AND RECREATIONAL FISHERS ARE ON A STEEP LEARNING CURVE, AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE. IF YOU NOTED THE SIZE OF THE HOOKS THAT WE'RE USING - <i>7</i> AND BIO - TO MINIMIZE THE BY-CATCH OF UNDERSIZED FISH, AND THEN IT'S HOW WE HANDLE THE FISH. AND, YEAH, WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE A REBUILT FISHERY. Lomuous wsucl HE SAYS 'REBUILT BECAUSE MANY FISHERIES, INCLUDING SNAPPER ONE, WERE DECIMATED BACK IN THE LATE 19708 AND 'SOS. THE EXCESSES OF THE COMMERCIAL TRAWL ARE PLAINLY EVIDENT IN THESE PHOTOS TAKEN ATA RUBBISH DUMP IN NELSON. SNAPPER STOCKS HAVE BOUNCED BACK MARKEDLY SINCE THOSE DAYS, BUT A GOVERNMENT REPORT LAST YEAR SAID OVERFISHING IS STILL LIKELY TO BE OCCURRING IN SNAPPER ONE. SO WHAT DOES THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR SAY ABOUT ALL OF THIS? SANFORD LIMITED IS THE LARGEST OWNER OF COMMERCIAL QUOTA IN THE COUNTRY. ITS GENERAL MANAGER OF OPERATIONS IS GREG JOHANSSON. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE, I THINK, AND THE SEAFOOD INDUSTRY ITSELF HAS SORT OF LISTENED TO THAT AND STEPPED UP AND SAID, 'WELL, WE'VE GOTTA BE MORE TRANSPARENT. WE'VE GOTTA BE MORE OPEN WITH OUR- WHAT WE DO AT SEA AND HOW WE DO IT.' UM, AND WE ARE A SOFT TARGET. WE'RE OUT OF SIGHT, WE'RE OUT OF MIND, SO PEOPLE CAN MAKE ACCUSATIONS. AND THE ISSUE IS HOW DOES THE INDUSTRY THEN DEFEND ITSELF AND PROVE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ALL CORRECTAND SUSTAINABLE. I IEJSIOI MOSTLY THE COMMERCIAL FISHERS ARE OUT OF SIGHT, SO NEXT WE GO OUT ON ATRAWLER TO TRY TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO AND WHATS BEING WASTED. IORUNOHII Burger King's new Chicken Crunch burger is made with 100% chicken breast and a mouth-watering new extra-crunchy coating. With crispy lettuce and freshly sliced tomatoes, the new Chicken Crunch tastes as good as it sounds. < IS IT UPSETTING TO SEE THAT AMOUNT OF FISH GO OVER THE SIDES DEAD? TO TRY TO PUT AN END TO VVHAT IT SAYS IS BASICALLY MISINFORMATION AND RU MOU R. THE MAIN ISSUE IS WHAT'S BEING WASTED BY TRAWLERS IN THE NORTH lSLAND'S SNAPPER FISHERY. SO THEY'VE PUT CAMERAS ON SOME OF THE BOATS, THEY'RE MAKING GPS MONITORING COMPULSORY, AND SKIPPERS MUST NOW RECORD HOW MANY SMALL SNAPPER THEY CATCH, BUT IS IT WORKING AND IS IT SAVING THE FISHERY? MICHAEL MORRAH'S BEEN TRYING TO FIND OUT. IT'S JUSTAFTER DAWN, AND WE'RE ON THE WATER OFF THE COAST OF GREAT BARRIER ISLAND. THIS IS IN THE HEART OF WHAT'S KNOWN AS SNAPPER 1, NZ'S MOST POPULAR FISHERY. TODAY WE'RE OUT IN THE COLVILLE CHANNEL. A LOT OF FISH AROUND, ESPECIALLY COMING THIS TIME OF YEAR. THE FISH STOCKS OF SNAPPER AND THAT ARE STARTING TO TURN UP. REST OF THE ANA CREVV, IT'S THEIR FOR DECKHAND JORDEY PAUL AND THE I FINAL DAY AT SEA FOR THE VVEEK. THE NETS ARE SET FOR THE FIRST HAUL OF THE DAY. THEY ONLY NEED A FEW MORE TONS OF FISH AND THE BOAT WILL BE FULLY LOADED. < DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS THAT COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN DO CATCH TOO MUCH? I wELL... I I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE, BUT MY OWN OPINION IS, UM, WE'RE OUT DOING A JOB. UM, PEOPLE LOVE TO EAT FISH, AND WE'RE PROVIDING A SERVICE. THE FIRST NET DOESN'T BRING MUCH IN, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE WE'VE ONLY HAD IT IN THE WATER FOR 2O MINUTES. BY LAW, SNAPPER MEASURING LESS THAN 25CM MUST BE RETURNED TO THE SEA, BUT MOST WILL GO BACK DEAD AFTER BEING CRUSHED DURING THE TOW. BY-CATCH LIKE THESE PUFFER FISH ALSO GO OVER THE SIDE. THEY'RE DELICACIES IN JAPAN, WHERE A FEED OF PUFFER CAN SET YOU BACK 6O BUCKS, BUT IT'S NOT WANTED HERE. IS IT UPSETTING THOUGH TO SEE THAT AMOUNT OF FISH GO OVER THE SIDE DEAD? AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S A BIT OF A SHAME, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE FISH GOING BACK DEAD. DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE COMMERCIAL OR RECREATION. THE NEXT TOW - OR SHOT, AS IT'S CALLED - HAS LASTED LONGER, THOUGH NOT THAT LONG. ATYPICAL SHOT CAN LAST ANYTHING UP TO TWO HOURS. WE'VE BEEN DRAGGING THE NET FOR ONLY ABOUT AN HOUR. I OK, WATCH YOUR FEET. I AS EXPECTED, IT'S A MUCH BIGGER HAUL. DECKHAND JORDEYAND MATI' GET TO WORK SORTING THE CATCH. THERE ARE UNDERSIZED JOHN DORY AND KINGFISH AND MORE UNDERSIZED SNAPPER. I BUT IT'S NOT ALL BAD NEWS. I THE INDUSTRY IS TRYING TO CLEAN UP ITS ACT. NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, ESTIMATES OF THE AMOUNT OF SMALL SNAPPER BEING THROWN BACK ARE BEING RECORDED. IT'S ONLY HAPPENING IN THIS AREA THOUGH - SNAPPER 1. AND THAT'S NOTALL. THE PLAN IS TO HAVE CCTV MONITORING OR OBSERVER COVERAGE ON ALL SNAPPER 1 TRAWLERS BY OCTOBER NEXT YEAR. THE CAMERAS ON THIS BOAT VERIFY WHAT'S BEING CAUGHT AND THAT THE VESSEL MOVES IF IT'S CATCHING TOO MANY SMALL FISH. AND SO IN THAT LAST SHOT, HOW MANY UNDERSIZE DID WE PUT BACK, ATA GUESS? ATA GUESS. WE PUT BACK ABOUT 1O KILOS. 10 KILOS ISN'TA HUGE AMOUNT, CONSIDERING WE PULLED UP A450 KILO NET OF FISH. BUT WHEN STUDYING THE CATCH REPORT FROM PREVIOUS DAYS, IT'S CLEAR THE AMOUNT VARIES A LOT. BUT WHEN STUDYING THE CATCH REPORT FROM PREVIOUS DAYS, IT'S CLEAR THE AMOUNT VARIES A LOT. WAS THAT A BAD DAY? SO OUT OF 7O TRAYS, THERE WAS 100 KILOS THAT HAD TO GO BACK? IYEAH. I SO IF THE lNDUSTRY'S DOCUMENTING THE WASTE, HOW BIG A PROBLEM IS IT? WHAT IT IS AS AN INDUSTRY OVER AN ANNUAL BASIS, WE WON'T KNOW UNTILABOUT CHRISTMAS TIME OR JANUARY NEXT YEAR. BUT YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE INDUSTRY FOR MANY YEARS. > YOU MUST HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW MUCH UNDERSIZE IS BEING CAUGHT ON YOUR BOATS? > BUT THE UNDERSIZED SNAPPER, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A REQUIREMENT TO RECORD SO WHAT WE'VE SAID IS, 'WE'VE LISTENED TO WHAT THE PUBLIC SAID,' AND WE'VE SAID, 'WE'RE GONNA START RECORDING IT. WE'RE GONNA GET THAT DATA.' BUT ERIC HIKUWAI, WHO'S SKIPPERED BOATS FOR SANFORD IN THE PAST, SAYS EVERY SKIPPER KNOWS HOW MUCH IS BEING THROWN BACK DEAD. QUITE EASILY EVERY SHOT, 10 TO 15 BINS OF UNDERSIZED FISH. I AND HOW MUCH DO THOSE BINS WEIGH? > I I ANYTHING FROM 12 To 1s KILOS. I AND THERE ARE ESTIMATES EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT, WHERE THE RATIO OF LEGAL TO UNDERSIZED CATCH IS 50/50. CONFIDENTIAL MINUTES FROM AN INSHORE FISHERIES MEETING LAST YEAR SAY A COMMERCIAL FLEET MANAGER NOTICED DURING ONE TRIP THAT, 'TRAWL SHOTS WITH STANDARD GEAR WERE CATCHING AS MANY UNDERSIZED SNAPPER AS LEGAL BY NUMBER'. THE NZ SEAFOOD INDUSTRY WANT TO DO THINGS BETTER. BUT THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR SAYS IT IS TRYING TO IMPROVE. IT'S EVEN DEVELOPING A NEW TYPE OF NET CALLED PRECISION SEAFOOD HARVESTING, OR PSH. YOU'RE PRODUCING A HUMANE HARVESTING SYSTEM, SO THE ANIMALS WIN. IT'LL RELEASE SMALL FISH AND LAND ACCORDING TO PROMOTIONAL VIDEOS, q OTHERS ALIVE AND IN GOOD CONDITION. ALTHOUGH THEY'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH PROTOTYPES KILLING SMALL FISH TOO, THE INDUSTRY SAYS IT'S DOING WHAT IT CAN TO PROTECTAVALUABLE RESOURCE. THEY WANT TO SEE THE RECREATIONAL SECTOR DO THE SAME. OUR MAIN ISSUE WITH THE SNAPPER FISHERY IS WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'VE GOTAN ACCURATE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS BEING TAKEN BY THE RECREATIONAL SECTOR. THATS ALL WE WANT. HE'S SUGGESTING BOATIES LIKE RICHARD BAKER AND SCOTT MACINDOE START RECORDING THEIR CATCH, BUT THEY SAY THAT'S TOO COMPLEX AND ISN'T NECESSARY. SO HE'S A SMALL ONE. AND ISN'T NECESSARY. SO HE'S A SMALL ONE. HE'S A BABY. THEY DO, HOWEVER, ADMIT THAT THEIR SECTOR TOO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING UNDERSIZED FISH. I GUT HOOK. I IF THE HOOK GOES IN TOO DEEP, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CHANCES OF A FISH SURVMNG ARE SLIM. NO, WE'VE GOT TO STOP KILLING SMALL FISH. I'M DOING WHATI CAN. I'VE GOT MY BIG HOOK, MY BIG BAIT, UH, GOOD HANDLING, GOOD PRACTICES, AND YET EVERY NOW AND AGAIN I CATCH ONE. I'VE ONLY CAUGHT ONE TODAY; FIRST ONE I'VE CAUGHT FOR SOME TIME. IT DOESN'T FEEL GOOD TO LET IT GO LIKE THAT. IT WILL NOT SURVIVE. RICHARD AND SCOTT SAY THEIR WASTAGE IS NOTHING COMPARED WITH THAT OF THE TRAWLERS. BUT THE COMMERCIAL GUYS SAY THEY'RE PUTTING THINGS RIGHT. AFTER ALL, THEY WANT TO PROTECT THE FISHERY AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE. THERE'S A LOT RIDING ON IT. IT'S A$1.5 BILLION EXPORT INDUSTRY. GREG JOHANSSON SAYS IT'S COMPANIES LIKE SANFORDS THAT THE WHOLE COUNTRY NEEDS TO RELY ON. WE'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1881. WE'RE THE OLDEST PUBLICLY LISTED COMPANY IN NZ, SO LOOKING AFTER THAT FISH STOCK AND MAINTAINING THE PRODUCTMTY OF THE FISHERIES IS ABSOLUTELY KEY TO OUR FUTURE. WE HAVE NO OTHER FUTURE. WE DON'T HAVE FORESTRY, WE DON'T HAVE DAIRY. WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE. IF THERE'S NO FISH, THERE'S NO BUSINESS. BUT THAT'S WHERE THE TWO SIDES WILL NEVER AGREE, BECAUSE THE RECREATIONAL FISHERS SAY THEY'RE THE FUTURE, AND THEY DRIVE EXPORT EARNINGS TOO. ULTIMATELY, IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO A DEBATE ABOUT THE REAL VALUE TO BE HAD FROM THESE NATURAL RESOURCES, THESE PUBLICALLY OWNED NATURAL RESOURCES, AND WHEN WE GET OUR TEETH INTO THE ECONOMY OF ABUNDANCE, WHATA TRULY ABUNDANT FISHERY COULD BRING TO THIS COUNTRY BY WAY OF TOURISM, BY WAY OF 'JUST THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH TO LIVE', THAT'LL PUT THE COMMERCIAL VALUE IN THE SHADE. YEAH, SO DESPITE ALL THE DISAGREEMENT, THE DIFFERENT GROUPS HAVE BASICALLY BEEN ORDERED OR TOLD TO GET AROUND THE SAME TABLE AND TALK. <i>Iii</i> WHICH IS OCTOBER NEXT YEAR, I THINK THEY WANT IT BY. THATS BASICALLYA PLAN FOR HOW TO MAXIMISE THE BENEFITS FOR EVERYONE, FOR ALL INVOLVED. <i>L</i> ALL RIGHT, COMING UP - <i>I</i> I FRESH, NEW, I I UNIMPEACHABLE, WATERTIGHT EVIDENCE I I HAS EMERGED. I I FRESH, NEW, UNIMPEACHABLE, I I WATERTIGHT EVIDENCE HAS EMERGED. I < IS IT UPSETTING TO SEE THAT AMOUNT OF FISH GO OVER THE SIDES DEAD? OK, JOHN BANKS - BANKSIE - ONE OF THE MORE COLOURFUL, PERHAPS CONTROVERSIAL CHARACTERS TO HAVE GRACED THE NZ POLITICAL STAGE. YOU KNOW HIS STORY, DON'T YOU? HE GREW UP IN RELATIVE POVERTY. HIS FATHER WAS A CAREER CRIMINAL, AND HIS MOTHER WAS AN ALCOHOLIC. SURE, BUT HE ROSE ABOVE ALL THAT TO BECOME A PILLAR OF THE ESTABLISHMENT. HE WAS THE NATIONAL PARTY POLICE MINISTER, LEADER OF THE ACT PARTY, TALKBACK HOST I AND TWICE MAYOR OF AUCKLAND. I YEAH, BUT WHO WOULD HAVE PREDICTED WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? IT WAS HIS DOWNFALL, OF COURSE, HIS DISGRACE. HE BECAMEA CONVICTED CRIMINAL. BUT TODAY WAS HIS CHANCE FOR REDEMPTION. HE WAS PRESENTING EVIDENCE TO THE COURT OF APPEAL THAT HE SAID WOULD EXONERATE HIM. I MEL REID HAS THE STORY. I I WOULD NEVER... NEVER KNOWINGLY FILE A FALSE ANYTHING. HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT WITH THE JUDGE'S VERDICT? FILE A FALSE ANYTHING. IT WAS A CASE THAT PLAYED OUT ON OUR SCREENS NIGHT AFTER NIGHT - JOHN BANKS' LAWYER DESCRIBED DOTCOM AS A 'DISHONEST MAN WITH A...' I THE VETERAN POLITICIAN... l FEELING CONFIDENT? THE VETERAN POLITICIAN... FEELING CONFIDENT? ARE YOU? I ...THE OSTENTATIOUS MEGA MAN... l I HE ls A LIAR ll= HE SAYS THAT. I I ...AND THE common MONEY. I WHATEVER THEIR PAST ALLIANCE, IT BLEW APART IN A VERY PUBLIC MANNER... I MR BANKS ls LYING, NOT ME. I ...ENDING WITH BANKS' 36-YEAR PUBLIC CAREER DOWN THE TUBES, CONVICTED IN COURT FOR FILING FALSE ELECTORAL RETURNS. BUT IT APPEARS THE BANKS-DOTCOM CASE IS FAR FROM OVER. TODAY AT THE COURT OF APPEAL IN WELLINGTON, NEW EVIDENCE THAT COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING. GOOD MORNING. CHANGE EVERYTHING. GOOD MORNING. < GOOD MORNING. THESE AFFIDAVITS IN DEFENCE OF BANKS CONTRADICT WHAT DOTCOM SAID IN THE ORIGINAL CASE. THEY'RE FROM TWO BIG-TIME AMERICAN BUSINESSMEN WHO WERE PRESENTATA PIVOTAL LUNCH AT THE DOTCOM MANSION, A LUNCH THAT JOHN BANKS' GUILT OR INNOCENCE MORE OR LESS HINGED ON. IN 2010, JOHN BANKS WAS CAMPAIGNING FOR THE AUCKLAND MAYORALTY, KIM DOTCOM DONATED TWO $25,000 CHEQUES TOWARDS HIS CAMPAIGN. I THERE'S No DOUBT ABOUT THAT. I BUT WHEN IT CAME TIME TO DECLARING THOSE CHEQUES TO THE ELECTORAL OFFICE, I THEY WERE RECORDED AS ANONYMOUS. I NOW, PUT SIMPLY, THE LAW SAYS IF YOU KNOW WHO GAVE YOU THE MONEY BUT THEN PRETEND YOU DON'T, I THEN IT'S ILLEGAL. I ISODBREMUSICI SO WE ALL SAW THE JOHN BANKS CASE UNFOLD NIGHTLY ON THE NEWS. HE SAYS HE TOOK ABOUTA MILLION DOLLARS OF DONATIONS INTO HIS CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT THAT YEAR, I WHICH IS WHERE DOTCOM COMES INTO IT. I I HE DONATED THESE TWO CHEQUES. I BANKS CLAIMS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO THE TWO $25,000 CHEQUES HAD COME FROM WHEN THEY TURNED UP IN HIS CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT. I DOTCOM SAYS HE on: KNOW. I I THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. I ISODBREMUSICI WHETHER BANKS KNEW OR NOT PRETTY MUCH CAME DOWN TO WHAT HAPPENED AT A LUNCH HELD HERE AT THE DOTCOM MANSION IN JUNE 2010. BANKS AND HIS WIFE SAY DURING THE LUNCH, THERE WAS NO COMMITMENT FROM DOTCOM THAT HE WOULD DONATE MONEY, I LET ALONE TALK OF CHEQUES. I BUT IN EVIDENCE, KIM DOTCOM WAS EMPHATIC ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAYAROUND THE DINING TABLE. WELL, AFTER THE DISCUSSION WITH MR BANKS, MR BANKS SAYS HE WANTS TO HAVE TWO CHEQUES OF 25,000 EACH SO HE CAN KEEP THAT ANONYMOUS. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT I SAID, WRITE OUT TWO CHEQUES FOR 25,000. AND AT THE TIME, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE AMOUNT, I HE MIGHT NOT HAVE TO DECLARE IT. I WAYNE TEMPERO IS DOTCOM'S FORMER SECURITY GUARD. HE BACKED DOTCOM'S EVIDENCE THAT THE CHEQUES AND DONATIONS WERE DISCUSSED AT THE LUNCH. CAN YOU TELL US YOUR FULL NAME, PLEASE? I MONA DOTCOM. I DOTCOM'S EX-WIFE ALSO SAID SHE WITNESSED THE CONVERSATIONS. DID NOT HEAR ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT <i>I</i> SUGGEST, MRS DOTCOM, THAT YO: DONATIONS AT ALL ON THAT DAY. <i>></i> I I'M SORRY, I on: HEAR. I AND THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOUR HUSBAND WHAT TO SAY. > I'M SORRY, I DID HEAR. AND THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOUR HUSBAND WHAT TO SAY. > NO, NOTATALL. THE COURT CASE ENDED WITH JOHN BANKS BEING FOUND GUILTY. WE ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE VERDICT. I WE ARE SURPRISED WITH THE RESULT. I MONAAND KIM DOTCOM WERE FOUND TO BE RELIABLE WITNESSES. BUT TWO MONTHS LATER, IN EARLY AUGUST, AT HIS SENTENCING, JOHN BANKS STRUCK BACK. I SINCE THE FINDING OF sum', I FRESH, NEW, UNIMPEACHABLE, WATERTIGHT EVIDENCE HAS EMERGED. FRESH, NEW, UNIMPEACHABLE, WATERTIGHT EVIDENCE HAS EMERGED, AND THAT NEW EVIDENCE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS MUCH OF THE EVIDENCE GIVEN IN THE COURT IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE ON WHICH I WAS CONVICTED, AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO TAKING THAT COMPLETELY FRESH, UNIMPEACHABLE, NEW, QOMPELLING EVIDENCE TO THE COURT OF APPEAL. AND WHAT BANKS DESCRIBES AS THAT 'FRESH, NEW, UNIMPEACHABLE, COMPELLING EVIDENCE' WAS PUT IN FRONT OF THE COURT OF APPEAL TODAY. IT'S IN THE FORM OF TWO STATEMENTS FROM THE TWO AMERICAN BUSINESSMEN - DAVID SCHAEFFER, CEO OF COGENT COMMUNICATIONS, A MAJOR MULTINATIONAL INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER; AND JEFFREY KARNES, AT THAT TIME, VICE-PRESIDENT OF COGENTS GLOBAL SALES. BOTH OF THEM SAY THEY WERE THERE THROUGHOUT THE LUNCH. I SCHAEFFER SAYS... l I KARNES SAYS THE SAME THING AND... l SO WHERE WAS THEIR EVIDENCE DURING THE ORIGINAL COURT CASE? JOHN BANKS AND HIS WIFE SAY AT THE TIME, THEY COULD NOT REMEMBER WHO THE AMERICANS WERE, ONLY THAT THERE WERE TWO US BUSINESSMEN AT THE LUNCH. IT WASN'T UNTILAFTER JOHN BANKS' GUILTY VERDICT THAT THEY WERE TRACKED DOWN. TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE AMERICANS FIT INTO THIS STORY, WE HAD TO RETURN TO THE COURT CASE, WHERE IT WAS DISPUTED WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE EVEN AT THE LUNCH. THROUGHOUT THE CASE, BANKS' LAWYER REPEATEDLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR PRESENCE. I THIS TO AMANDA BANKS. I BUT WHEN DOTCOM WAS QUESTIONED IN COURTABOUT THE PRESENCE OF THE AMERICANS AT LUNCH, I HIS ANSWER WAS... l AGAIN, IT WAS PUT TO DOTCOM THE TWO AMERICANS WERE THERE AT LUNCH. AND IN COURT, MONA DOTCOM WAS ALSO ASKED. THE AMERICANS ARE SAYING THEY WERE VERY MUCH THERE, SO THAT MAKES THEM WITNESSES TO ANY DISCUSSION THAT TOOK PLACE AT THE LUNCH TABLE, BE IT CHEQUES, DONATIONS, THE BANKS' MAYORAL CAMPAIGN, WHATEVER. THEIR TESTIMONY FLIES IN THE FACE OF WHAT DOTCOM SAID UNDER OATH. REMEMBER, HE SAID HE'D CALLED FOR HIS STAFF TO FETCH HIS CHEQUEBOOK THERE AND THEN AT LUNCH. WE ASKED HIM WHO HE WANTS THE CHEQUES TO BE ADDRESSED TO. HE SAID, 'TEAM BANKSIE.' SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO THE CHEQUE SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO? YEAH, OBVIOUSLY. I MEAN, HOW ELSE WOULD WE KNOW WHAT TO PUT THERE? HE SAID, 'MAKE THEM OUT FOR TEAM BANKSIE.' DIDN'T HAPPEN, ACCORDING TO THE AMERICANS. I THEY EACH SAY THIS... l WHAT THE COURT OF APPEAL WILL DO WITH THIS NEW TESTIMONY REMAINS TO BE SEEN. THE JUDGE'S DECISION IS EXPECTED WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. ONE THING'S FOR SURE, THOUGH, THE REPUTATION AND LEGACY OF JOHN ARCHIBALD BANKS DEPENDS ON IT. I'VE SPENT MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE DOING GOOD THINGS FOR OTHER PEOPLE, AND ONE DAY I'M GONNA STAND HERE AND TELL YOU, 'I TOLD YOU SO.' I THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I MELANIE REID THERE WITH THE DAY'S DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHT, UP NEXT, DOGS - MAN'S BEST FRIEND. AND IT'S A JOKE, ISN'T IT, IN SOME CIRCLES THAT IN SOME ASIAN COUNTRIES THEY EAT DOGS. I MIGHT STOP YOU THERE BECAUSE THIS AIN'T NO JOKE. THIS IS THE TRUTH. STAND BY. DON'T GO AWAY. DO% BARK, WHINE I MIGHT STOP YOU THERE BECAUSE THIS AIN'T NO JOKE. THIS IS THE TRUTH. STAND BY. DON'T GO AWAY. <i>L</i> AND IT'S I=ul_l_. <i>I</i> IT'S JUST ONE TRUCK COMING OUT OF ONE VILLAGE. < IS IT UPSETTING TO SEE THAT AMOUNT OF FISH GO OVER THE SIDES DEAD? ALL RIGHT, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAMME. DOG MEAT. WOULD YOU EAT DOG MEAT? I HAVEN'T EATEN ANY MEAT FORA COUPLE OF DECADES, DUNCAN, BUT THERE'S NO WAY. WHATABOUT YOU? COULD YOU DO IT? COUPLE OF DECADES, DUNCAN, BUT THERE'S NO WAY. WHATABOUT YOU? COULD YOU DO IT? COUPLE OF DECADES, DUNCAN, BUT YOU EAT MEAT, THOUGH? I EAT MEAT, BUT I WOULDN'T TOUCH DOG. I THINK IT'S A CULTURAL ISSUE, SO NO FOR ME. OK, WELL, TONIGHT WE'RE IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE CONSUMPTION OF DOG MEAT IS, IN FACT, AN EVERYDAY EVENT, AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FARMED MEAT EITHER. IN SOME CASES, PEOPLE'S PETS ARE STOLEN AND THEN TURNED INTO RESTAURANT FOOD. YEAH, AND SOME OF THESE PET OWNERS, THEY'RE MAD, ACTUALLY, AS YOU'D EXPECT. THEY'RE SO MAD AND FRUSTRATED WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING, THEY'RE WILLING TO MURDER THE PEOPLE DOING THE STEALING, SO THIS IS A STORY, WE SHOULD WARN YOU, WHERE EMOTIONS RUN HIGH, AND WE SHOULD ALSO TELL YOU THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND THE IMAGES QUITE DISTRESSING. VIETNAMESE HOMES ARE BEING TARGETED BYA UNIQUE TYPE OF CRIMINAL - I DOG THIEVES. I THESE DOGS ARE BEING SOLD FOR THEIR MEAT TO RESTAURANTS AND SLAUGHTERHOUSES. IT'S A CRIME-WAVE THAT'S SHOCKED VIETNAM AND HAS LED TO A SPIRAL OF VIOLENCE, OFTEN DEADLY. I WANT TO FIND OUT WHY SOME ARE PREPARED TO KILL FOR DOGS. THIS IS A BUSY MARKET IN HO CHI MINH CITY. VIETNAM HAS A RICH FOOD CULTURE, AND PEOPLE HERE ENJOY EATING MANY KINDS OF MEAT, INCLUDING DOG. THIS IS A TYPICAL MARKET IN VIETNAM, AND DOWN THAT WAY I'VE SEEN ABOUT EIGHT STALLS ALL SELLING DOG MEAT, AND THEY'RE PROVING TO BE QUITE POPULAR. THIS DOG MEAT STALL IS RECEMNG A NEW DELIVERY. THAT'S A LIVE DOG IN THERE, AND THEY'VE JUST WEIGHED IT. AND THEN THEY GO INTO THESE CAGES BEHIND, WHERE THEY'RE KEPT UNTIL THEY'RE SLAUGHTERED AND SERVED OUT THERE FOR CUSTOMERS. 'THE STALL OWNER TELLS ME THESE DOGS COME FROM THE COUNTRYSIDE.' THE DOGS ARE KEPT INSIDE VERY CRAMPED CAGES. MANY OF THEM ARE SHAKING. IT'S JUST DISTRESSING TO SEE HOW QUIET THEY ARE. THERE'S ABOUT 3O DOGS HERE. YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD BE BARKING LIKE MAD, AND THEY'RE JUST SILENT. IN THE LAST TWO DECADES, VIETNAM HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY. IT USED TO BE ONE OF THE POOREST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD, BUT AFTER MARKET REFORMS, IT'S BECOME ONE OF ITS FASTEST GROWING ECONOMIES. PEOPLE ARE BETTER OFF, SO THEY GO OUT MORE OFTEN. I WHY ARE YOU HERE TODAY? I A BOYS' NIGHT OUT MEANS LOTS OF BEER AND DOG MEAT. THIS PACKED RESTAURANT SERVES NOTHING ELSE. EVERY DAY TRUCKS DELIVER OVER 7 TONS OF LIVE DOGS TO HANOI. I WHAT'S THAT? ls IT noes? I I CAN YOU STOP? I looevarsl I I'VE JUST COME ACROSS THIS TRUCK, I <i>I</i> AND IT'S I=ul_l_. <i>I</i> THIS IS JUST ONE TRUCK COMING OUT OF ONE VILLAGE. I WHERE ARE YOU TAKING THEM? I <i>I</i> WHERE DO THESE DOGS COME FROM? <i>I</i> ARE YOU LEAVING? YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ANY MORE? DANG HUNG IS A FARMER AND THE OWNER OF A GROCERY STORE. HE RAISES GUARD DOGS TO PROTECT HIS HOME. IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, HE'S HAD 1O DOGS STOLEN. HE TELLS ME THAT HERE PEOPLE EITHER KEEP GUARD DOGS OR RAISE DOGS TO SELL FOR THEIR MEAT. DOGS ARE CONSIDERED A HOUSEHOLD ASSET. THAT EVENING I HEAD OUT ON PATROL WITH DANG. DOG THIEVES ARE OFTEN ARMED WITH KNIVES AND STUN GUNS, SO THE PATROLS SEEK SAFETY IN NUMBERS. WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE ISN'T UNUSUAL. THIS TYPE OF PATROL CAN BE SEEN ACROSS VIETNAM. THIS COMMUNE ALONE HAS LOST OVER 300 DOGS TO DOG THIEVES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS, AND THE VILLAGERS TELL ME THAT THE DOG THIEVES ARE COMING HERE ALMOST ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. WHY DO YOU THINK THE DOG THIEVES KEEP COMING BACK? IDOGBARKSI THERE'S NO PRISON SENTENCE FOR DOG THEFT IN VIETNAM. MOST DOGS ARE WORTH LESS THAN A $100 - WELL BELOW THE THRESHOLD FOR CRIMINAL CHARGES - SO THE REWARDS FAR OUTWEIGH THE RISKS. GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS HAVE REJECTED TOUGHER PUNISHMENTS FOR THE CRIME, SAYING THERE ISN'T ENOUGH ROOM IN VIETNAM'S JAILS FOR ALL THE DOG THIEVES. I (BARKS) I WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU CAUGHTA DOG THIEF? I OK, RIGHT, THAT IS WHAT HE CLAIMS, I BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT SOMETIMES THE VILLAGERS DO BEAT THE DOG THIEVES TO DEATH. YEAH, SO THE BACKLASH AGAINST THE DOG THIEVES - THAT'S NEXT. LooPvnueo-rrmmmq WELCOME BACK. SO, WE'VE SEEN THAT IN VIETNAM, DOGS ARE COLLECTED, SLAUGHTERED AND SOLD AS FOOD. SOMETIMES IT IS LEGAL, SOMETIMES NOT. YES, AND WE SHOULD WARN YOU AGAIN THAT SOME OF YOU MAY FIND THIS STORYA BIT UNSETTLING AND A BIT UPSETTING, BECAUSE THERE ARE NO LAWS AGAINST ANIMAL CRUELTY IN VIETNAM. BUT THE THEFT OF PEOPLE'S PETS HAS LED TO VILLAGE JUSTICE THAT'S BEEN HANDED OUT, HASN'T IT? 2O DOG THIEVES HAVE REPORTEDLY BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH - THAT'S 2O - IN JUST THE PAST YEAR. THIS IS FOOTAGE TAKEN JUSTAFTER A MOB KILLED A DOG THIEF IN THIS PROVINCE LAST YEAR. 2O DOG THIEVES HAVE BEEN REPORTEDLY BEATEN TO DEATH IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS, AND MANY MORE HAVE BARELY ESCAPED WITH THEIR LIVES. IN 2012, TWO DOG THIEVES WERE CAUGHT BY VILLAGE PATROLLERS ON THIS SPOT. CRIES OF 'DOG THIEF' RANG OUT, AND THE WHOLE VILLAGE CAME FLOODING TO THE SCENE. THE BEATING LASTED FOR SEVERAL HOURS. ALL THESE VILLAGERS ADMIT HAVING TAKEN PART. BUT THEY TELL ME THEY ONLY INTENDED TO HURT THE THIEVES, NOT KILL THEM. IF THERE WAS ANOTHER BEATING, WOULD YOU JOIN AGAIN? IGENTLEMUSICI IDOGSYAPI I WANTED TO SEE WHAT WAS IN STORE FOR STOLEN DOGS. I'VE BEEN TOLD THIEVES SELL THEM ON TO DOG TRADERS OR SLAUGHTERHOUSES. IT'S QUITE EARLY IN THE MORNING, AND THE TRADERS ARE JUST GETTING READY. AND I'M ABOUT TO MEET THE OWNER OF A SLAUGHTERHOUSE TO SEE HOW SHE'S PREPARING FOR BUSINESS TODAY. Irsnsewsucl KIEU VU HAS BEEN RUNNING THIS DOG SLAUGHTERHOUSE FOR 13 YEARS, TOGETHER WITH HER HUSBAND LAM TRAN. THEY TELL ME PEOPLE PREFER TO EAT DOG MEAT IN COOL WEATHER. HOW MANYARE YOU PLANNING TO KILL TODAY? I IT'S TIME TO KILL THE FIRST DOG. I LAM GRABS HIM FROM A PIT IN THE BACK. Iboewnluasl HE'S RENDERED UNCONSCIOUS WITH TWO BLOWS TO THE HEAD, THEN HIS THROAT IS SLIT. DO YOU THINK THE ANIMALS YOU KILL FEEL THE PAIN? THERE ARE NO HEALTH, SAFETY OR HYGIENE REGULATIONS FOR THE KILLING OF DOGS FOR MEAT IN VIETNAM. THERE ARE RULES FOR THE SLAUGHTER OF CATTLE, PIGS AND POULTRY, BUT NOTHING FOR PLACES LIKE THIS. OVER THERE, THERE'S A PIT, AND INSIDE THERE ARE ABOUT 10 DOGS. IT'S QUITE DARK, IT'S QUITE CRAMPED, AND THEY DON'T LOOK VERY WELL. THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLANS TO INTRODUCE ANY REGULATIONS. A PREVIOUS PROPOSAL WAS ABANDONED WHEN ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS OPPOSED SAYING IT WOULD LEGITIMISE THE TRADE. SO WITH NO PAPERWORK REQUIRED TO SAY WHERE THE DOGS ARE FROM, THE DOG MEAT TRADE IS IDEAL FOR THE BLACK MARKET. DO YOU THINK THAT YOU SOMETIMES HAVE STOLEN DOGS HERE? A NEW CUSTOMER COMES IN. HE WANTS LAM TO KILL THIS DOG SO HIS FAMILY CAN HAVE HIM FOR DINNER. I HE SAYS ll"s r-us PET. I YOU BROUGHT YOUR PET TO BE KILLED TODAY. YOU MUST BE UPSET. I LAM TELLS ME THIS ls NOT UNUSUAL. I FOR MANY PEOPLE, THE SAME DOG COULD BE CONSIDERED A PET AND LATER FOOD. Irsnsewsucl DOG THIEVES HAVE BECOME HATE FIGURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF HANOI, I MANAGED TO TRACK DOWN TWO OF THEM. HOW MANY DOGS DO YOU THINK YOU'VE STOLEN SINCE YOU STARTED? THEY TELL ME ON A GOOD NIGHT THEY CAN EARN UP TO $100 FROM THE DOGS THEY CATCH, BUT THERE ARE TIMES THEY'VE BEEN BEATEN UP AND ONCE NEARLY KILLED BY AN ANGRY MOB. DO YOU HAVE DOGS YOURSELVES? YOU BOTH HAVE DOGS? Irsnsewsucl THE THIEVES TOLD ME THEY SELL THE DOGS TO MIDDLE MEN, WHO PASS THEM ON TO WHOLESALE DOG TRADERS. I HEAD TO AVILLAGE WHICH IS ONE OF THE LARGEST TRADING SPOTS FOR LIVE DOGS IN THE NORTH OF THE COUNTRY. I WALK INTO THE FIRST HOLDING HOUSE I SEE. I THERE'S ABOUT 20o DOGS INSIDE. I I WHERE ARE THE DOGS FROM? I IT'S PACKING TIME. THE CREW IS PREPARING A DISPATCH OF DOGS TO HANOI. FIRST, THEY SEPARATE THE ANIMALS, TAKING TO THE BACK THE DOGS THAT WON'T BE SOLD TODAY. I IT'S AVIOLENT, STRESSFUL PROCESS. I Iooesnomwnuus] ONE BY ONE, THEY GRAB THE REMAINING DOGS. THE DOGS ARE SOLD BY WEIGHT, SO FORCE-FEEDING THEM INCREASES THEIR VALUE. ATUBE IS FORCED INTO THEIR MOUTHS, AND FOOD IS PUMPED IN, AND THEIR STOMACHS BLOAT. IT'S ALL REALLY QUITE A DISTURBING THING TO WATCH. I noes IT HURT THEM? I I JUST FIND THAT REALLY HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS NOT A PAINFUL PROCESS. THE DOGS ARE THEN FORCED INTO CAGES. Inoeswnlusl THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SPACE TO MOVE AT ALL IN THERE, AND THEY'RE BEING HOSED DOWN TO REMOVE THE VOMIT OF THE FOOD THAT THEY'VE JUST BEEN PUMPED WITH. Inoeswnlusl lomuous wsucl SEVEN CRATES ARE READY TO GO, ABOUTA HUNDRED DOGS IN TOTAL, BUT TODAY IS A SLOW SHIFT. AT BUSY TIMES, THE HOLDING HOUSES ON THIS STREET PROCESS AROUND 2000. DOGS IN A SINGLE DAY. Irsnsewsucl JUST HOUSE AFTER HOUSE AFTER HOUSE PACKED FULL OF DOGS, AND THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING TO ALL OF THEM. BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENCE SURROUNDING DOG THEFT, THE VIETNAMESE ARE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT THE MANY PROBLEMS OF THE DOG-MEAT TRADE. LPoceumrwsucl BUT WITHOUT REAL PUNISHMENT FOR DOG THIEVES AND LAWS AGAINSTANIMAL CRUELTY, THERE'S NO END IN SIGHT TO THE PAIN FOR PEOPLE OR ANIMALS. IT'S PRETTY CONFRONTING STUFF. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT? I JUST FIND THAT SO TOUGH TO WATCH. lT'S- YEAH, MY HEART GOES OUT TO THOSE POOR DOGS. BUT IS IT ANY DIFFERENT TO A SHEEP ORA COW OR A PIG, WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU HAPPILY EAT THOSE, RIGHT? I DO, AND I THINK IT'S ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE USED TO IN YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR CUSTOM, YOUR CULTURAL BELIEFS AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING. THAT'S TRUE. THATS ALL FROM US AT 3RD DEGREE FOR THIS WEEK. WE'RE BACK NEXT WEDNESDAY. WE'LL SEE YOU THEN.