NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. <i>L</i> VVVWNABLE.CO.NZ I NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. CAPTIONSVVEREIIADEPOSSIBLE WITH FLIQDING FROM NZ ONAIR. NOTE: CAPTIONS COMPUTER GENERATED USING OCR FROM DVB-SUBPICTURES. CA. I COPYRIGHTABLE 2014 I GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO THE NATION. I'M LISA OWEN. AND I'M PATRICK GOWER. THIS MORNING, THE SOCIAL HOUSING SELL-OFF. IT'S BY NO MEANS ABOUT DESTROYING THE STATE-HOUSING SECTOR. IN FACT, IT'S THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. BUT DOES IT MEAN MORE AFFORDABLE HOMES OR IS PRIVATISATION BY STEALTH? THE NEW SOCIAL HOUSING MINISTER, PAULA BENNETT, JOINS ME TO TALK ABOUT NATIONAL'S BIG PLANS. COULD AS MANY AS 20,000 STATE HOUSES BE ON THE BLOCK. WHO WILL BE AT THE FRONT OF QUEUE TO BUY THEM, AND HOW DOES ALL THIS BUILD ONE MORE HOUSE? THEN - ON THE EVE OF THE US MID-TERMS, WE CROSS LIVE TO CHICAGO AND NEW YORK TO TALK AMERICAN POLITICS WITH AMBASSADOR MIKE MOORE AND BUSINESSMAN CHRIS LIDDELL. IS ROCK STAR PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA ON THE ROCKS? AND LATER - SAM MORGAN AND ROD DRURY HAVE BECOME HOUSEHOLD NAMES, BUT WHO ARE THE NEXT WAVE OF TECH ENTREPRENEURS WITH BILLION-DOLLAR DREAMS? PLUS - POLITICS IN 6O SECONDS AND OUR PANEL JON JOHANSSON AND FRAN O'SULLIVAN. THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEKEND. TO WEIGH IN ON THE DEBATE THIS MORNING, JUST TEXT 3330 FOR 50C. EMAIL US AT THENATION@TV3.CONZ. OR WE'RE ON 'TWITTER AND FACEBOOK. NOW, EMBOLDENED BY ITS ELECTION VICTORY, THE GOVERNMENTS WASTED NO TIME PRESSING AHEAD WITH PLANS TO SELL OFF SOME OF OUR 68,000 STATE HOUSES. BUT WILL GETTING COMMUNITY GROUPS TO PLAYA GREATER ROLL HELP THOSE NEEDY FAMILIES CURRENTLY STUCK IN GARAGES AND CARAVAN PARKS? OR IS IT, AS ONE HOUSING PROVIDER TOLD US THIS WEEK, ABOUT DESTROYING THE STATE-HOUSING SECTOR. PAULA BENNETI' HAS TAKEN THE NEW SOCIAL HOUSING PORTFOLIO, AND WHEN PADDY SPOKE TO HER EARLIER, HE ASKED IF ATHIRD OF STATE HOUSES ARE THE WRONG SIZE OR IN THE WRONG PLACE, DOES THAT LOGICALLY MEAN ATHIRD OF THEM, AS MANY AS 22,000, SHOULD BE SOLD? LOGICALLY, MAYBE. I MEAN, I WOULDN'T PUTA NUMBER ON IT, SO PEOPLE ARE PUTTING NUMBERS ON IT THEMSELVES. BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY, THAT IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN QUICKLY. WE'VE GOTA LOT OF WORK TO DO FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT ABOUT US REDUCING SUPPLY FOR THOSE THAT NEED IT. IT JUST MEANS THAT WE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE ONES THAT ARE ACTUALLY FRONTING, AND IT MIGHT BE THAT ITS GOING TO COMMUNITY PROVIDERS. YEAH, SURE, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PUTA NUMBER ON IT, BUT IT COULD BE UP TO A THIRD, COULDN'T IT? I IT COULD BE THOUSANDS OF HOUSES. I IT COULD BE THOUSANDS, BUT I WOULD STILL SAY THAT HOUSING NZ WOULD BE THE DOMINANT FORCE IN ACTUALLY PROVIDING SOCIAL HOUSING IN NZ, CERTAINLY IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. EVEN IF WE WERE TO SELLA FEW THOUSAND SO THAT WE COULD EITHER, A, BUILD MORE OR GO INTO PARTNERSHIP WITH COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS AND PRIVATE DEVELOPERS. OUR INTENTION IS FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED HOUSING SUPPORT TO HAVE MORE STOCK AVAILABLE. WE JUST MAY NOT OWN IT. YEAH, YOU MIGHT NOT OWN IT, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SELLING THOUSANDS OF HOUSES HERE. AND, YES, COMMUNITY HOUSING WILL BE PART OF IT, BUT PRIVATE BUYERS WILL BE ABLE TO GET INTO AS WELL, WON'T THEY? PRIVATE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO BUY THESE HOUSES. YEAH, BUT THEN LET'S LOOK AT WHERE IT'S AT. SO YOU COULD TAKE AN AREA - TAMAKl'S A GREAT SORT OF EXAMPLE AT THE MOMENT. SO WE'RE BUILDING 11 NEW HOUSES WHERE THERE WERE TWO, YEAH. NOW IMAGINE IF WE GO INTO ANOTHER AREA WHERE THERE MIGHT BE 2O STATE HOUSES. WE THEN PARTNERSHIP OR EVEN SELL TO A DEVELOPER, WHO THEN PARTNERS WITH A COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDER AND BUILDS 70. YOU KNOW, SO THERE WE'VE GOT MORE HOUSES AVAILABLE, IT'S A WIN-WIN FOR EVERYONE, AND IT MAY NOT BE THAT THE STATE'S OWNING THOSE AND WE'VE GIVEN UP 20 HOUSES, BUT THERE'S MORE AVAILABLE FOR THOSE THAT NEED THEM. RIGHT, SOME OF THOSE 2O HOUSES. OR IF YOU DO SELL OFF TO A DEVELOPER, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO BUILD THEIR OWN PRIVATE HOMES AS WELL. THEY WON'T BE TIED TO BUILDING COMMUNITY HOUSING, WILL THEY? THAT'S TRUE, BUT WE MAY GIVE A PERCENTAGE THAT WE EXPECT TO BE EITHER SOCIAL HOUSING OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND WE'VE DONE IT IN SOME OF THE SPECIAL HOUSING AREAS, THE SHAS. SO YOU MAY OR YOU WILL? DONE IT IN SOME OF THE SPECIAL HOUSING AREAS, THE SHAS. SO YOU MAY OR YOU WILL? WELL, WE'RE STILL WORKING OUR WAY IN. WE'RE NOT EVEN A MONTH IN THE JOB YET, SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH THAT KIND OF DETAIL, AND IT'S YET TO GO TO CABINET. BUT THERE'S CERTAINLYA PRECEDENT THERE FOR US INSISTING THAT A PERCENTAGE IS SOCIAL HOUSING. THE COMMITMENT I WILL MAKE IS THERE WILL BE MORE PLACES AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE IN NEED FOR SOCIAL HOUSING. AND WE'LL COME TO THAT, BUT FIRST, IN TERMS OF THE SELL-OFF, WILL FIRST-HOME BUYERS BE ABLE TO BUY THEM THROUGH, SAY, TRADE ME OR BAYLEYS OR WHATEVER? WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO GO TO IWI FIRST IN MANY CASES, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT FOR US TO GO OUT THERE AND CONSULT WITH THEM. SO YOU WILL SEE US MAKING A BIG CONSULTATION PROCESS OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, WHERE WE'RE EQUALLY TALKING TO COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS AND OTHERS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN. SO IVVI ARE GOING TO GET FIRST SHOT AT A LOT OF THESE HOUSES? NOTATALL OF THEM, BUT THERE WILL BE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE, AS PART OF THEIR SETTLEMENTS, THEY COULD HAVE A FIRST RIGHT OF REFUSAL, BUT THEN IN OTHERS THERE WON'T BE. ARE YOU TALKING HERE IN AUCKLAND? WHERE IN NZ ARE YOU LOOKING? WE'RE STILL WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH SOME OF THOSE DETAILS AND WE'RE MAKING ANNOUNCEMENTS IN DUE COURSE, BUT WE DO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TALK TO IWI, WE WANT TO TALK TO COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALSO GMNG SOME OF THOSE FIRST-HOME BUYERS OPPORTUNITY. SO MAORI WILL BE FIRST IN THE QUEUE FOR SOME OF THESE STATE HOUSES IN THE SELL-OFF? IN SOME CASES. FOR SOME OF THESE STATE HOUSES IN THE SELL-OFF? IN SOME CASES. YEAH, AND SOME WILL GO TO FIRST-HOME BUYERS? I'M SURE THAT THEY MIGHT, BUT- YEAH, AND SOME WILL GO TO FIRST-HOME BUYERS? I'M SURE THAT THEY MIGHT, BUT- AND SOME WILL GO TO DEVELOPERS AS WELL. WE'RE YET TO GET TO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL, BUT I THINK YOU COULD SAY YES. AND IT COULD BE IN THE THOUSANDS? DETAIL, BUT I THINK YOU COULD SAY YES. AND IT COULD BE IN THE THOUSANDS? IT COULD BE, BUT I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF IT'S THAT MANY WELL, IT'S NOT, ACTUALLY. IT'S ABOUT BEING SMART IN WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO YOU JUST LOOK AT US HAVING THE WRONG HOUSES, IN THE WRONG PLACE, OF THE WRONG SIZE. YEAH, BUTAT THE SAME TIME, YOU CAN LOOK AT IT THE OTHER WAY, AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THOUSANDS OF HOUSES WORTH MAYBE OVER A BILLION DOLLARS BEING SOLD OFF. THAT'S AN ASSET SALE. HOUSES WORTH MAYBE OVER A BILLION DOLLARS BEING SOLD OFF. THAT'S AN ASSET SALE. YEAH, BUT SO THAT WE CAN THEN PERHAPS SPEND THAT BILLION DOLLARS ON PEOPLE THAT NEED IT IN A MUCH BETTER WAY. WE HAVE PROBLEMS- YOU JUST SAID, 'YES, IT IS AN ASSET SALE.' WELL, THERE'S ASSETS THAT ARE GOING POTENTIALLY TO IWl AND COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS, SO- WELL, THERE'S ASSETS THAT ARE GOING AND TO PRIVATE PEOPLE AND- HOUSING PROVIDERS, SO- WELL, THERE'S ASSETS THAT ARE GOING AND TO PRIVATE PEOPLE AND- YOU CAN NAME IT IF YOU LIKE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS THAT KIND OF BIG ASSET SALE. I THINK WHAT IT IS- IT'S IMPORTANT. IT IS IMPORTANT. BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS THAT KIND OF BIG ASSET SALE. I THINK WHAT IT IS- IT'S IMPORTANT. IT IS IMPORTANT. WELL, IT'S ABOUT US SHIFTING INVESTMENT, IS WHAT IT IS. IT'S IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU'VE JUST SAID IT IS AN ASSET SALE, AND THE PRIME MINISTER SAID, 'NO MORE ASSET SALES.' WELL, I SAID, 'YES, BUT,' YEAH? BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE HAD SIGNALLED WELL IN ADVANCE THAT WE DON'T THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE THE ONLY PROVIDER OF SOCIAL HOUSING IN NZ, I AND WE DON'T. I YEAH, AND TO USE YOUR OWN PHRASE, 'YES, BUT' THE PRIME MINISTER SAID, 'NO MORE ASSET SALES.' YEAH. 'YES, BUT' THE PRIME MINISTER SAID, 'NO MORE ASSET SALES.' YEAH. AND THIS IS AN ASSET SALE BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. WELL, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE SOCIAL HOUSES THATARE IN THE WRONG PLACE, AND WE WILL BE PURCHASING MORE. SO WE'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT AT A LOWER LEVEL THERE WILL BE SOME MOVEMENT. THIS IS NOTA BIG ASSET SALE, AND WE'VE STUCK WITH WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID. BUT IF YOU GO INTO THE KIND OF DETAIL, COMMON SENSE STUFF THAT'S HAPPENING HE SAID THERE wll_l_ ALWAYS BE SOME 1 S. AT THE MARGINS OF FARMS AND OTHER AND IN THIS CASE A FEW STATE HOUSES. SO WE ARE NOT GOING OUT THERE AND DOING ANYTHING EN MASSE THAT IS GOING TO BE OF MAJOR CONCERN TO NZERS. OUR FOCUS IS ON PEOPLE. WE CAN DO BETTER BY THEM BY ACTUALLY SHIFTING SOME OF THOSE ASSETS AS WELL, PURCHASING MORE IN AREAS AND OF THE SIZE THAT THEY NEED IT, AND ALSO PARTNERING WITH COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS. THAT'S WHAT OUR COMMITMENT IS. LET'S LOOK AT HOW WORKS, BECAUSE WHAT MAKES IT A REALITY THAT THE MARKET WILL DO A BETTER JOB THAN HOUSING NZ AND THE STATE AT THE MOMENT? WELL, WE HAVE SOME REALLY QUITE GOOD EXAMPLES OF IT, AND I THINK THAT IN SOME CASES WE CAN SEE THAT THE STATE WILL, BUT WE CAN JUST SEE HOW IT MAKES SENSE. THEY MOVE QUICKER THAN WE DO. WE CAN WORK IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM. IF WE FREE UP SOME OF THAT LAND AND SUPPLY, THEY CAN COME IN, THEY CAN BUILD SOME THAT THEY NEED TO, PARTNER WITH COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS. IT IS MORE THEM THAT DOES A BETTER JOB SOMETIMES THAN WE DO, BECAUSE THEY WRAP MUCH BETTER SUPPORT AROUND WHAT ARE OFTEN VERY VULNERABLE NZERS. SURE, AND WE'VE TALKED TO SOME COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS, AND THEY'VE SAID, 'YES, IN PRACTICE, THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, BUT HOW DO WE GET INTO THIS. 'IT'S TOO MUCH FOR US TO DO. THERE'S TOO MUCH DEVELOPMENT REQUIRED. 'WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO THIS OVERNIGHT.' IN FACT, ONE OF THEM SAID TO US. 'WE ARE WORRIED THAT THIS IS ABOUT DESTROYING THE STATE-HOUSING SECTOR.' SO IT'S BY NO MEANS ABOUT DESTROYING THE STATE-HOUSING SECTOR. IN FACT, IT'S THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. I WELL ACCEPT THAT THEY'RE NOT UP TO CAPACITY, AND THAT'S PART OF US STARTING SOMEWHERE AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE. SO THE INCOME-RELATED RENTS MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE. THAT FOLLOWS THE INDMDUAL AND CAN GO TO A PROVIDER, BUT WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. SO SOME OF IT IS SOME OF THOSE STATE HOUSES GOING TO THOSE COMMUNITY HOUSING PROVIDERS. IT MEANS THEY HAVE AN ASSET. THEY CAN THEN PARTNER WITH EITHER DEVELOPERS OR WITH BANKS AND BORROW MORE MONEY THAT THEY CAN BUILD MORE. AND IT IS UNUSUAL, PATRICK, ACROSS THE WORLD FOR THE STATE TO HAVE SUCH A MONOPOLY AND BE THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE SOCIAL-HOUSING MARKET. OKAY, BUT LET'S TAKE THAT POINT THAT YOU MADE ABOUT STATE-HOUSING STOCK GOING TO THE COMMUNITY PROVIDERS. HOW DOES IT GET THERE? CAN THEY GET THAT ATA DISCOUNT LEVEL SO THAT THEY CAN GET INTO THE GAME, OR WILL THEY PROVIDE IT AT MARKET RATE? WELL, I CAN'T GO INTO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL TODAY. IT HAS BEEN LESS THAN A MONTH, AND WE HAVE YET TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF GOING THROUGH CABINET WITH THAT KIND OF DETAIL. BUT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF OPTIONS, IS WHAT I WOULD SAY. AND ARE YOU PREPARED TO SELL THE HOUSING STOCK AT A DISCOUNTED RATE TO A COMMUNITY PROVIDER SO THAT THEY CAN GET INTO THE GAME AND SO THAT THEY CAN GET STARTED? IS THAT AN OPTION FOR THE GOVERNMENT? I'M SAYING THERE'S MANY OPTIONS, AND I'M NOT PREPARED TO MAKE A PUBLIC STATEMENT ON EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL BE TODAY, BECAUSE WE WILL BE WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH AND AS A CABINET MAKE A COLLECTIVE DECISION ON WHAT THAT WILL BE. BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS PREPARED TO SELL THESE AT A DISCOUNTED RATE TO HOUSING PROVIDERS TO GET THEM STARTED? I CAN'T MAKE THAT OBLIGATION TODAY. WE'RE WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH OPTIONS, AND WE'VE GOTA PROCESS TO GO THROUGH YET. BECAUSE THE HOUSING PROVIDERS SAY THEY WOULD NEED IT TO BE DISCOUNTED FOR THEM TO GET GOING. YEAH, I CAN APPRECIATE THAT, BUT THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE, AND THAT IS NOT THE ONLY ONE, AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT US SHIFTING ASSETS EITHER. THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER IDEAS AND THINGS WE NEED TO DO TO GET THIS MOVING TO THE LEVEL IT NEEDS TO BE SO THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THE KIND OF ASSISTANCE THAT SOME VULNERABLE NZERS NEED. BUT HOW IS IT NOT JUST SHIFTING ASSETS? BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THE HOUSE IS OWNED BY THE STATE AT THE MOMENT; THE HOUSE GOES TO A COMMUNITY PROVIDER. THAT DOESN'T BUILD A NEW HOUSE, DOES IT? NO, IT DOESN'T, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT'S NOT THE ONLY PIECE OF WORK GOING ON, SO IT IS ALL ABOUT PROVIDING MORE- HAVING MORE SUPPLY, PARTICULARLY IN THE AUCKLAND MARKET. SO TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO FREE UP LAND. WE NEED SPECIAL HOUSING AREAS. WE NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSES BEING BUILT SO THAT OTHERS CAN BUY THEM. WE NEED TO SEE ATRACK FOR PEOPLE, THAT THEY'RE NOT LONG TERM IN STATE HOUSES WHEN, ACTUALLY, THEY ONLY NEED THEM FOR SHORT-TERM. WE NEED TO BE MAKING SURE THAT WE- WELL, IT ISAWHOLE MECHANISM HERE. IT'S NOT JUST ONE THING THAT IS GOING TO MOVE THIS. YOU KNOW, IF WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LOOKING AFTER THOSE THAT NEED IT MOST, WE'RE some TO BE HAVING To SHIFTA WHOLE LOT OF COMPONENTS TO MAKE THAT WEEK WHY CAN'T HOUSING NZ DO THAT? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO SELL IT OFF? WELL, WE AREN'T JUST SELLING IT OFF. TO BE FAIR, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE SOCIAL-HOUSING MARKET, AND THEY ARE- I'VE GOT TO SAY, I'VE JUST BEEN OUT THIS MORNING VISITING WITH THEM. I THINK THEY'RE OUTSTANDING AND THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB. SO IT IS NOT ABOUT UNDERMINING THE WORK THAT THEYARE DOING, BUT WE CAN DO OTHER THINGS. SO THE EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU, WE STILL HAVE SOME HOMES THAT ARE ON BIG SECTIONS. WHEREAS, IF YOU TOOK THOSE TWO HOMES OFF, YOU COULD BUILD 11 IN THAT SPACE. THAT'S 11 VULNERABLE PEOPLE. OFF, YOU COULD BUILD 11 IN THAT SPACE. THAT'S 11 VULNERABLE PEOPLE. AND WHO'S GOING TO BUILD THEM? A PRIVATE DEVELOPER? POTENTIALLY, YES. AND WHO'S GOING TO BUILD THEM? A PRIVATE DEVELOPER? POTENTIALLY, YES. AND THE PRIVATE DEVELOPER MAKES THE MONEY OFF THAT. NO, NOT NECESSARILY. THEY MAY MAKE SOME, BUT, EQUALLY, THE STATE CAN BE ADVANTAGED FROM IT BECAUSE OF THE LAND AND THE COMMUNITY-HOUSING PROVIDER. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE PEOPLE WILL BE BETTER OFF BECAUSE THERE WILL BE MORE HOUSES AVAILABLE I THAT BETTER SUIT THEM. I BUT EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY-HOUSING SECTOR SAYS THOSE PEOPLE, THOSE DEVELOPERS WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT, AND OF COURSE THEY DO, DON'T THEY? YEAH, AND THEY CAN. SO I'M NOT ANTI THEM MAKING A BIT OF MONEY IF THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE INVESTING AND ACTUALLY DOING ALL THE WORK, BUT IT NEED NOT BE THAT CERTAINLY THE VULNERABLE PEOPLE OR THE TAXPAYER LOSES, BECAUSE WE OWN SOME PRETTY VALUABLE TRACTS OF LAND. AND IF WE'RE SMARTABOUT IT, MAKE SURE THAT WE PUT CONDITIONS THAT ARE IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF NZERS, WHICH WE WILL DO, MAKE A COMMITMENT THAT THERE WILL BE MORE SOCIAL HOUSING SUPPLY, PARTICULARLY IN AUCKLAND, OVER TIME, THEN WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT, ACTUALLY, IT'S AT THE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE NZERS. OKAY. SO HOW MUCH AND OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD? OF THOSE NZERS. BUT THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF IT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOTATHOUSAND PEOPLE LMNG IN A CARAVAN PARK USING THE ACCOMMODATION SUPPLEMENT. OF IT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOTATHOUSAND PEOPLE LMNG IN A CARAVAN PARK USING THE ACCOMMODATION SUPPLEMENT. YEAH, AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER FOR ME NOT TO COME ON TODAY AND AVOID YOU SO THAT I WASN'T PUT IN THIS POSITION, BUT THE REALITY IS WE ARE LESS THAN A MONTH, WE HAVE A PROCESS TO GO THROUGH AND FOR GOOD REASON, THE BEST ADVICE, AND WE'RE MAKIN SO THAT IT'S TESTED. WE'RE GETTING I G SURE THAT EVERYTHING LINES UP. MINISTER, YOU WILL AGREE THAT PEOPLE CAN'T LIVE ON AN ACCOMMODATION SUPPLEMENT, CAN THEY? WELL, NO, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE, BECAUSE MANY, MANY DO, SO THE ACCOMMODATION SUPPLEMENT- BUT IT'S NOTA HOUSE; IT'S A CARAVAN FOR MANY PEOPLE. IT'S A CARAVAN FOR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN NECK OF THE WOODS. YEAH, BUT FOR THOUSANDS, IT'S NOT, SO, ACTUALLY, THE ACCOMMODATION SUPPLEMENT IS A REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT TOOL IN SUBSIDISING HOUSING FOR NZERS. SO WE SPEND $1.1 BILLION ON IT. IT GOES TO, FROM MEMORY, MORE THAN 240,000 PEOPLE, AND IT IS A VALUABLE TOOL IN US HAVING THAT MARKET AVAILABLE. AND THAT'S WHERE INCOME-RELATED RENTS COME IN. IF YOU THINK WE SUBSIDISE HOUSING BY ABOUT $2 BILLION AYEAR JUST IN THAT SORT OF WEEKLYASSISTANCE, WE CAN DO BETTER WITH THAT. AND WE'RE NOT SCARED TO SPEND A BIT MORE. NOW, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT POINTS IS, OKAY, YOU SELL SOME OF THIS HOUSING STOCK. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MONEY FROM THAT? DOES THAT GO BACK INTO THE HOUSING SECTOR? WHAT I DO SAY IS, AND WE'RE STILL WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH - IT'S GOT TO GO THROUGH CABINET, AND IT'S GOT TO GO THROUGH ITS PROCESS - IS THAT THERE WILL BE MORE SOCIAL HOUSING AVAILABLE- WE JUST MAY NOT BE PROVIDING IT. AND WE'RE NOT SCARED TO SPEND MORE MONEY. YES, I KNOW, AND IAGREE WITH THAT, BUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE MONEY YOU MAKE FROM SELLING UP TO THOUSANDS OF STATE HOUSING? WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT MONEY? WELL, WE SEE OURSELVES REINVESTING AND USING IT BETTER TO HELP VULNERABLE NZERS. SO YOU GUARANTEE IT WILL GO BACK INTO HOUSING? OR WHERE WILL IT GO? WILL IT GO BACK INTO HOUSING OR INTO THE CONSOLIDATED FUND? YEAH, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO WORK OUR WAY THROUGH THOSE, AND YOU CAN GET US BACK ON AND EITHER THE MINISTER OF FINANCE OR MYSELF WILL ANSWER THAT. BUT I'M NOT QUITE GOING TO PUT NUMBERS ON ITAT THIS STAGE UNTIL WE'VE WORKED OUR WAY THROUGH A PROCESS. WE KNOW HOW MANY, WHAT SPACE, WHAT PERIOD OF TIME AND WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS. AND NOW MOVING ON TO A BIGGER POLITICAL QUESTION - WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THIS TALK OF YOU BEING THE NEXT LEADER OF THE NATIONAL PARTY? ITHINK I LOVE WHAT I DO, AND I JUST- EVERYONE SAYS THAT. I THINK I LOVE WHAT I DO, AND I JUST- EVERYONE SAYS THAT. YEAH, THEY DO. AND SO NO MATTER WHAT I SAY TO YOU RIGHT NOW, I'M GOING TO BE IN ATIGHT SPOT. I'M JUST GOING TO TELL YOU, THOUGH, I DON'T HAVE LEADERSHIP AMBITIONS. I'M REALLY REALLY PLEASED IN THE ROLE THAT I'M PLAYING AT THE MOMENT. THAT'S WHAT JUDITH COLLINS SAID. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LOOKING LIKE THE NEXT CRUSHER HERE. NO, I'M JUST LOVING WHAT I'M DOING, AND I CAN'T ANSWER YOU ANY OTHER WAY, AND I DON'T WANT TO. SO YOU CAN TAKE FROM IT WHAT YOU LIKE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, MINISTER. THANKS FOR COMING ON. WHAT YOU LIKE. SO DOES THIS SELL-OFF AMOUNT TO ANOTHER ASSET SALE OR NOT AND WILL COMMUNITY HOUSING GROUPS GET THEM AT A KNOCKED-DOWN PRICE. WE'LL GET INTO THAT WITH PADDY, JOHN JOHANSEN AND FRAN O'SULLIVAN LATER. BUT AFTER THE BREAK - OUR MAN IN WASHINGTON, MIKE MOORE, AND THE FORMER REPUBLICAN ADVISER CHRIS LIDDELL ON WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN AMERICA GOES TO POLLS ON TUESDAY AND THAT RUGBY GAME. BACK SOON. ALL THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND ATHIRD OF THE SENATE IS UP FOR GRABS. THE BIG QUESTION IS WHETHER THE REPUBLICANS CAN TAKE CONTROL OF THE SENATE, AS WELLAS THE HOUSE, AND FOR NZ, WHAT'LL IT MEAN FOR TRADE DEALS AND THE FIGHT AGAINST THE ISLAMIC STATE. NZ'S AMBASSADOR TO THE US, MIKE MOORE JOINS US FROM CHICAGO, WHERE HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT ALL BLACKS MATCH, AND NZ CORPORATE HIGH-FLYER CHRIS LIDDELL, A SENIOR ADVISER TO MITI' ROMNEY IN HIS 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, IS IN NEW YORK. GOOD MORNING TO YOU BOTH, GENTLEMEN. HIS 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, IS IN NEW YORK. GOOD MORNING TO YOU BOTH, GENTLEMEN. HIS 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, IS HELLO. MR MOORE, IF I CAN COME TO YOU FIRST. INTERNATIONALLY, BARACK OBAMA IS STILL SEEN AS A BIT OF A ROCK STAR, BUT HE'S GOT THE LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS EVER AT THE MOMENT, AND EVEN HIS OWN CANDIDATES SEEM TO BE BACKING AWAY FROM HIM AT THIS ELECTION. WHAT'S GOING ON? WELL, IT'S SECOND-TERM BLUES FOR ANY PRESIDENT. A BIT MORE ACCELERATED FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA, HIS RATINGS AT THIS MOMENT, IN SOME POLLS AT LEAST, THAN GEORGE W BUSH. AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT. MANY OF THE CANDIDATES ARE MOVING FROM HIM. THERE'S A FANTASTIC AD, WELL, IN KENTUCKY, WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC SENATE CANDIDATE HOLDS A GUN, AND SHE GOES, 'CLICK, CLICK. I DISAGREE WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA. 'CLICK, CLICK. BANG. ON GUNS. CLICK, CLICK. BANG. ON COAL. 'CLICK, CLICK. BANG. ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY.' SO, UH, IT'S GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING STRUGGLE. MOST EMBASSIES AND PUNDITS ARE SUGGESTING THE SENATE COULD FLIP, ALTHOUGH AS CHRIS WILL EXPLAIN, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF STRANGE ELECTORATES. IN KANSAS, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE PULLED OUT, AND AN INDEPENDENT IS RUNNING AGAINST A REPUBLICAN, AND BECAUSE IT'S BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TO BREAK A 50% THRESHOLD, THERE ARE TWO STATES - LOUISIANAAND GEORGIA- WHERE WE MAY NOT GETA RESULT, AND THERE HAS TO BE A RUN-OFF. RUN-OFF. YOU SAY THAT IT'S LIKELY TO FLIP. THE SENATE'S LIKELY TO FLIP. BUT BY HOW MUCH? IS THIS GONNA BE A BLOODBATH FOR THE DEMOCRATS, DO YOU THINK? OH, I DOUBT IT'S A BLOODBATH. AS I WAS SAYING, IN KANSAS, SOMETHING STRANGE COULD HAPPEN, WHERE AN INDEPENDENT IS CHALLENGING THE REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT, AND THE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE A CANDIDATE. UH, IN GEORGIAAND LOUISIANA, YOU HAVE TO GET OVER 50% OF THE VOTE, AND SO THERE COULD BE ANOTHER ELECTION AFTER THIS ONE, AND THERE ISN'TA TIDAL WAVE TOWARDS THE REPUBLICANS. THERE IS ARGUMENTS AGAINST INCUMBENTS. IF YOU'RE IN THERE, THAT IS A BAD THING. SO DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE BEING HAMMERED IF THEY ARE INCUMBENTS. AND THERE'S ANOTHER SERIES OF RACES WHICH ARE GETTING THE PUBLICITY, WHICH ARE THE GOVERNORSHIPS. NOW, WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT? WELL, IN THOSE GOVERNORSHIPS, THERE COULD BE ONE OR TWO REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEES. ALSO - THE GOVERNOR'S MANSION AND THE STATE ASSEMBLIES DECIDE THE ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES FOR THE CONGRESS. THIS IS NOT DONE IN AN INDEPENDENT WAY. SO THESE RACES ARE OF INTEREST TO US AS WELL. SO LET'S BRING CHRIS LIDDELL IN HERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK? HOW IS IT GOING TO PLAY OUT? ARE THE REPUBLICANS GONNA ROMP IN? (CHUCKLES) WELL, UH, I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE QUITE THE SAME SCORE AS WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE IN CHICAGO TOMORROW. BUT THE WAY IT'S SORT OF SHAPING UP, I WOULD SAY THERE'S 100 SEATS IN THE SENATE. BASIC MATH IS THERE'S 100 SEATS. YOU OBVIOUSLY NEED 51 TO CONTROL IT. SO I WOULD SAY THERE'S BROADLY 45 SEATS APIECE THATARE REASONABLY CERTAIN TO FALL TO THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY HELD OR REASONABLY ASSU RED, WHICH LEAVES 1O UP FOR GRABS. THEY'RE ALL PRETTY CLOSE, AND WHAT'S CALLED THE GROUND GAME HERE - TURNOUT ON THE DAY - COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. HAVING SAID THAT, THE POLLS ARE INDICATING PROBABLY SIX OF THOSE 1O WOULD GO REPUBLICAN, TWO DEMOCRAT, AND TWO, IT'S A DEAD HEAT. SO IF IT WAS DONE EXACTLY ON THE POLLS, AND IT NEVER IS, BUT IF THAT WAS DONE, THAT WOULD PROBABLY INDICATE AROUND A 52, 53 SEATS TO THE REPUBLICANS. BUT AS MIKE SAID, THERE'S A COUPLE THAT COULD GO OVER TO JANUARY BECAUSE THEY'RE SO CLOSE AND NEED A RECOUNT OF SOME FORM. SO THERE'S STILLA LONG WAY TO GO, BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT'S LIKELY TO BE A REPUBLICAN VICTORY IN THE SENATE. IN SAYING THAT, THOUGH, CHRIS, DOESN'T THE SAYING GOES, 'THE ONLY THING LESS POPULAR THAN OBAMA IS A REPUBLICAN'? I MEAN, DOES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STILL GOT THIS CML WAR GOING ON WITHIN? I THINK THERE'S A MORE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE AT STAKE HERE, AND IT'S REALLY AROUND THE COMPETENCE OF THE GOVERNMENT. EVERY ELECTION HAS A THEME, AND IF THERE WAS ONE SINGLE THEME, IT WOULD BE THAT. YOU KNOW, JUST ONE NUMBER THAT ALWAYS STICKS WITH ME. THE US GOVERNMENT EMPLOYS AROUND 4 MILLION PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE ARMY, SO ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE WHOLE OF NZ. SO IF YOU IMAGE ONE ORGANISATION EMPLOYING EVERY NZER, YOU GETA SENSE OF THE COMPLEXITY OF RUNNING IT, AND OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO, THERE HAVE BEEN A SERIES OF EMBARRASSMENTS BOTH DOMESTICALLYAND INTERNATIONALLY FOR THE GOVERNMENT. UH, OBAMACARE ROLL-OUT. THE SECRET SERVICE ALLOWING PEOPLE INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. MOST RECENTLY, THE HANDLING OF EBOLA- BUT THE ECONOMY IS LIFTING THERE, ISN'T IT? AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, PEOPLE VOTE WITH THEIR BACK POCKET, DON'T THEY? YEAH, BUT THEY DON'T FEEL IT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. AND ONE OF THE IRONIES UNDER THE LAST SIX YEARS IS THAT INEQUALITY IN THE COUNTRY'S ACTUALLY GOT WORSE RATHER THAN BETTER. SO THERE'S A POLL OUT THAT I THINK IS A REALLY INTERESTING ONE, WHICH IS CALLED 'RIGHT TRACK, WRONG TRACK', AND IT BASICALLY SAYS, 'DO YOU THINK THE COUNTRY'S ON THE RIGHT TRACK OR THE WRONG TRACK?' IT'S A PRETTY SIMPLE ONE, AND AMERICANS BY NATURE ARE GENERALLY OPTIMISTIC. THE LATEST VERSIONS OF THOSE HAVE ABOUT 27% OF PEOPLE THINK IT'S ON THE RIGHT TRACK. OVER 60% THINK IT'S ON THE WRONG TRACK. THAT'S VERY UNUSUAL FOR AMERICA. AND SO THERE'S THIS FUNDAMENTAL CONCERN ABOUT WHERE THE COUNTRY'S AT AND THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN IT, AND SO THAT'S PLAYING AS BIG A ROLE AS WHETHER YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN. OK, MR MOORE, IF I CAN COME BACK TO YOU. IF THE SENATE DOES CHANGE HANDS, WHAT'S THAT GONNA MEAN IN PRACTICAL TERMS? <i>L</i> WHAT ARE Tl-le consequences 0l= THAT? <i>I</i> WELL, IF IT DOES FLIP, OUR GREAT NATIONAL INTERESTS DON'T CHANGE THAT DRAMATICALLY WITH THE CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE ADMINISTRATION WILL CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE THE TRADE DEAL I WE'VE HAD so MUCH INTEREST m. I UH, ALTHOUGH HISTORICALLY REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN MORE INTERESTED IN TRADE THAN DEMOCRATS, UM, BUT THEY WILL BE HOLDING THE ADMINISTRATION'S HAND TO THE FIRE, AND THERE'LL BE ALL SORTS OF SUBPOENAS GOING AROUND, AND THERE COULD BE SOME CHAOS AND CONFLICT. THERE WILL BE BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE SENATE. HOWEVER, TRADE IS ONE AREA WHERE THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF BIPARTISANSHIP CREEPING INTO IT, AND THIS COULD WELL BE A LEGACY ISSUE FOR THE PRESIDENT. SO I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GONNA BE UNHELPFUL OR HELPFUL. IT IS WHAT IT IS. BUT DO YOU ANTICIPATE, THEN, THAT THE TRANS~PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP“? VVE COULD SEE A DEAL IN THE DO YOU ANTICIPATE, THEN, THAT I TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP WITHIN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS? COULD THERE BE A DEAL REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THE SENATE? IT IS VERY POSSIBLE. IT COULD EVEN BE SOON. YEAH, BUT WHAT HAPPENS - THE ADMINISTRATION NEGOTIATES THE DEAL. THEN IT'S GOT TO TAKE IT TO THE HOUSE AND TO THE SENATE TO SEE WHETHER IT FLOATS AND WHETHER OR NOT THE SENATORS AND CONGRESS, MEN AND WOMEN, FEEL IT'S BIG ENOUGH AND GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE AMERICANS. SO, UM, YEAH. THE ADMINISTRATION CUTS THE DEAL, BRINGS IT BACK. NOW THIS COULD HAPPEN VERY FAST OR NOT. WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT'S A NEGOTIATION. UM, BUT I DON'T SEE, UM, IF THE DEAL'S GOOD ENOUGH, WHETHER IT'S A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS ORA DEMOCRAT ONE, BEING SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT. HOWEVER, IT IS TRUE THAT, HISTORICALLY, THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN MORE PRO-TRADE. DEPENDS ON THE DEAL THE ADMINISTRATION CAN GET. OWEN: WHATABOUT THE SITUATION WITH THE ISLAMIC STATE? IF THE REPUBLICANS HAVE CONTROL OF THE SENATE, PRESSURE TO RAMP UP MILITARY ACTION DO YOU THINK THERE'S GONNA BE MORE I FROM AMERICA AGAINST ISLAMIC STATE'? YEAH, THE DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY IS WITH THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. IT IS THE PRESIDENT'S PREROGATIVE. BUT IF THERE IS A FLIP, THERE'LL BE SOME AGGRESSIVE CONGRESSIONAL AND SENATORIAL QUESTIONS AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO HOLD THE GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT, AND SO IT WILL BE MORE VIGOROUS. CHRIS LIDDELL, WHATS YOUR TAKE ON THAT? I THINK THE BIGGEST CHANGE WE'LL SEE IS JUST ON LEGISLATION GOING TO THE PRESIDENT. THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS HERE IS BASICALLY EITHER THE HOUSE OR THE SENATE CAN GENERATE LEGISLATION, AND THE OTHER ONE CAN EITHER VETO IT OR NOT, AS THE CASE MAY BE, BEFORE IT GOES TO THE PRESIDENT. WHEN YOU HAVE A SPLIT SITUATION LIKE WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, UH, THE HOUSE GENERATES IT, THE SENATE BLOCKS IT OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND. WHEN YOU HAVE BOTH OF THEM CONTROLLED BY ONE PARTY, OBVIOUSLY LEGISLATION GETS THROUGH, WHICH MEANS IT GOES TO THE PRESIDENT, AND THEN HE HAS TO DECIDE WHETHER HE PASSES IT OR NOT. SO I THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEE A LOT MORE LEGISLATION, BOTH DOMESTICALLY AND INTERNATIONALLY, GOING FORWARD. SO I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A MORE ACTIVE PERIOD, AND THE REAL ISSUE IS GONNA BE, 'DO WE SHIFT GRIDLOCK FROM ONE PLACE, BEING BETWEEN HOUSE AND SENATE, TO ANOTHER PLACE, WHICH IS THE PRESIDENT?' SO I THINK IT COULD ACTUALLY BE AVERY INTERESTING COUPLE OF YEARS. SO WHAT DOES THIS ELECTION TELL US ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE? BECAUSE WE SEE HILLARY CLINTON AS OUT THERE, SHAKING HANDS AND DOING HER THING. AND EVEN MITT ROMNEY HAS BEEN BROUGHT IN TO, UM, HELP SUPPORT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES. WHAT DOES IT TELL US ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE? I THINK IT SETS UPA REALLY INTERESTING DYNAMIC. AND, AGAIN, IT OBVIOUSLY DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS WIN THE SENATE, SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT SCENARIO, BUT LET'S ASSUME THE REPUBLICANS WIN IT. THEN THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BASICALLY SHOW THAT RATHER THAN JUST BEING BLOCKING LEGISLATION, THEY CAN PUT SOME POSITIVE LEGISLATION FORWARD. SO IT ACTUALLY SETS UPA MORE INTERESTING DYNAMIC FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE BECAUSE IT GIVES THE REPUBLICANS A PLATFORM ON WHICH TO LAUNCH THEIR CANDIDATE, WHOEVER THAT MIGHT BE. IF IT FLIPS THE OTHER WAY AND IT'S THE DEMOCRATS, UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE PROBABLY GOT MORE OF THE SAME FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. BUT ASSUMING IT'S A REPUBLICAN VICTORY, IT ACTUALLY MAKES THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE MORE INTERESTING. MR MOORE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? HOW DOES THAT STACK UP IN VIEW OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE? WELL, IAGREE WITH CHRIS. OBVIOUSLY HILLARY CLINTON IS THE FRONTRUNNER FOR THE DEMS, AND THE REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT QUITE A WIDE RANGE OF POSSIBLE CANDIDATES, AND DON'T UNDERESTIMATE JEB BUSH. HE'S CENTRE. IF HE CAN SURVIVE THE PRIMARY PROCESS, HE'S A VERY LIKABLE PERSON. UM, BUT DEMOGRAPHICS ARE DESTINY, AND HALF OF ALL TEXANS ARE NOW HISPANIC. AND THE REPUBLICANS - FOR A PRESIDENTIAL VICTORY - ARE GONNA HAVE TO REACH ACROSS TO THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY IN A WAY THEY'VE BEEN UNABLE, SO FAR, TO GET RESULTS FROM. UM, GEORGE W BUSH DID QUITE WELL WITH THE HISPANICS, BUT SINCE THEN, THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT DONE AS WELL. MR MOORE, BRIEFLY ON ANOTHER TOPIC. SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. ON ANOTHER TOPIC, YOU ARE IN CHICAGO FOR THE RUGBY GAME. HAVE THE AMERICANS WORKED OUT YET THAT THE BALL GETS PASSED BACKWARDS? THEY ARE PEOPLE QUEUING AT 6AM, A MILE LONG, AT A RESTAURANT TO GET AUTOGRAPHS. THE BIGGEST RUGBY GAME IN AMERICAN HISTORY HAS BEEN 20,000. WE'RE GOING TO GET 65,000 PEOPLE AT THIS GAME. ITSA FRENZY, AND OUR PEOPLE ARE DOING VERY WELL. ALONGSIDE, THERE'S 75 NZ BUSINESSES. SOLDIER FIELD, WHICH IS WHERE A MEMORIAL TO THE FIRST WORLD WAR IS THERE. WREATHS WILL BE LAID. I THINK WE'RE DOING A GOOD JOB, AND I'M SLIGHTLY CONFUSED AT THE NZ MEDIA SNEERING THAT THERE IS NO INTEREST. WALK IN THE STREETS. BANNERS EVERYWHERE. BUT, OK, 65,000 - THREE TIMES AS BIG AS ANY OTHER GAME. AND IN THE POLITICAL GAME, MR MOORE, WE HAVE AN ELECTION GOING ON BACK HERE AT THE MOMENT. IT'S FOR THE LEADERSHIP OF THE LABOUR PARTY. WHO'S GOT YOUR VOTE IN THAT RESPECT? WELL, I'M NOTAVAILABLE. IMPOSSIBLE, I MEAN. (LAUGHS) FANTASTIC. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO BOTH OF YOU FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING. THAT'S MIKE MOORE AND CHRIS LIDDELL. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN. AND STILL TO COME - COMEDIANS JEREMY CORBETTAND PAUL EGO WITH THEIR TAKE ON THE TRIP'S POLITICAL WHOOPSIES, BUT FIRST - WHO ARE THE NEXT KIWI TECH STARS AND WHAT ARE THEIR BIG IDEAS? LUCY WARHURST FINDS OUT NEXT. AND SHOWN THAT YOU DON'T NEED To BE soon AT SPORT TO BECOME A LOCAL HERE BUT WHO ARE THE NEXT GENERATION OF ENTREPRENEURS AND WHAT MARKS OUT THESE NEW WHIZ KIDS ON THE BLOCK AS DIFFERENT? YOU WON'T KNOW THEIR NAMES YET, BUT LUCY WARHURST WENT IN SEARCH OF THIS NEW BREED WHO HAVE GROWN UP ONLINE, I AND SHE FILED THIS REPORT. I WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING TO GET OUR COMPANY TO BE A BILLION-DOLLAR VALUED COMPANY I m THE NEXT THREE YEARS. I IT STARTED WITH A TRIP TO WELLINGTON ZOO. IALWAYS KNEW I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING MASSIVE, AND I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT WAS GROUNDBREAKING AND INNOVATIVE. FRUSTRATED WITH THE LIMITED INFORMATION ABOUT THE PELICAN, THEN 19-YEAR-OLD EZEL KOKCU AND CHRIS SMITH CAME UP THE IDEA FOR MOBILE STORYTELLING APP. CHRIS AND I FELT THAT THIS WAS THE PERFECT IDEA TO LAUNCH, AND IT WAS SOMETHING SO GLOBAL. THEY SCRIBBLED THEIR IDEA DOWN ON A PIECE OF PAPER, AND SO ITALL BEGAN. SO, THE STORY IN THE BEGINNING, IT WAS THE MOBILE APP. BUT NOW WE ARE AN INNOVATION HOUSE. WHAT ALLOWS HER TO WORK 8O HOURS A WEEK IS LMNG AT HOME WITH HER PARENTS. I MUM COOKS, DAD PICKS HER CLOTHES. I SAY HI TO THE NEW GENERATION OF TECH STARS. FOR DECADES KIWIS HAVE MADE FILMS, SCORED TRIES AND EVEN CLIMBED MOUNTAINS AS THE PATH TO FAME AND FORTUNE, BUT THERE'S A NEW PATH - BUILT-IN CODE, ONES AND ZEROS. INSPIRING A WHOLE GENERATION OF YOUNG KIWIS. NZ HAS A STRONG HISTORY IN IT FROM THE PIONEERS TO AWHOLE STRING OF KIWI SUCCESSES, SO WHO ARE THE NEXT STARS? AND IS A HIGH-TECH CAREER A VIABLE OPTION? OR DO THEY HAVE THEIR HEADS IN THE CLOUD? XERO FOUNDER ROD DRURY HAS BEEN IN THE IT BUSINESS FOR 25 YEARS. 10 YEARS AGO, THE STATE OF THE ART WAS US BUILDING UP BIG TECHNOLOGY BUSINESSES THAT WE SOLD TO US COMPANIES. AND NOW WITH THE INTERNET, WE'RE BUILDING THESE MUCH MORE LONGER TERM BUSINESS. SO WHATS CHANGED IS YOU CAN NOW YOU KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUMP ON A PLANE TO SELL TO EVERYBODY. I YOU CAN SELL THINGS OVER THE WEB. I AND IT'S THE CLOUD THAT'S OPENING THE BIGGEST DOORS. THE GREAT THING ABOUT TECHNOLOGY IS THERE IS NO LIMITS. YOU CAN REALLY GO AS BIG AS YOU CAN DREAM, AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF LUCK, AND EXPERIENCE MAKES IT EASIER, BUT THAT'S THE NEAT THING - THESE ARE BUSINESSES THAT CAN SCALE IN A WAY YOU JUST HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. SO THE FIRST ONE I HEARD ABOUT WHEN I WAS REALLY YOUNG WAS SAM MORGAN AND TRADE ME, UM, I REMEMBER WATCHING ON THE NEWS, AND I WAS, LIKE, 'OH MY GOD. THAT IS SO CRAZY.' SAM OVENS IS ONE OF A WAVE OF YOUNG TALENTED KIWIS DITCHING THE DEGREE TO CHASE THE HIGH-TECH DREAM. QUIT MY JOB, DROPPED OUT OF UNI AND, YEAH, SOLD MY CAR, MOVED OUT OF MY FLAT AND MOVED BACK IN WITH MY PARENTS, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SET UP A Ll'l'I'LE MINI-OFFICE IN THE GARAGE. IT VVASN'T ALL PLAIN SAILING. HE ESTIMATES HE LOST AROUND $30,000 IN THE BEGINNING. I WASN'T TOO CONCERNED ABOUT THE MONEY. IT WAS MORE, LIKE, THE EMOTIONAL THING FOR ME. LIKE, MY GIRLFRIEND AT THE TIME THINKING, YOU KNOW, I SHOULD PROBABLY GETA JOB. JOB. AND ALL MY FRIENDS SITTING IN MY PARENTS THINKING I SHOULD SETH THEIR FANCY OFFICES IN THEIR SUITS, AND I WAS SITTING IN MY GARAGE IN MY TRACKPANTS. BUT HE PERSEVERED, CRACKING IT WITH PROPERTY MANAGEMENTAPP SNAPINSPECT. BY 24, HE'D MADE HIS FIRST MILLION. HE'S COYABOUT JUST HOW MUCH HE'S WORTH NOW, BUT IT'S ENOUGH TO AFFORD HIM A FERRARI AND A FANCY PAD IN PARNELL. I MEAN, DOING WELL FOR 25, BUT IN BUSINESS, I MEAN, I'M STILL LIKE AN ANT. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A DATING SITE. I'M TALKING ABOUT TAKING THE ENTIRE SOCIAL EXPERIENCE OF COLLEGE I AND PUTTING IT ONLINE. I AND THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF YOUNG NZERS EAGER TO FOLLOW IN FACEBOOK'S FOOTSTEPS, AND CHEAP MOBILE TECHNOLOGY MAKES IT EASIER THAN EVER. 3000 TO 5000 TECH ENTREPRENEURS START OUT EACH YEAR IN NZ, INCREASING BY 25% A YEAR. I THERE'S LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF THEM I ONE OF THE MOST RECENT BIG SUCCESS STORIES IS VAUGHAN ROWSELL'S RETAIL SOFTWARE COMPANY, VEND. I'M MEETING, YOU KNOW, DOZENS OF THEM EVERY MONTH. UM, IT COULD BE ANYONE. UM, IT COULD BE YOU OR IT COULD BE YOU. THERE ARE NO BARRIERS. AS LONG AS YOU'VE GOTA GREAT IDEA, YOU'VE GOT PASSION, YOU'VE GOT DRIVE, AND YOU'VE GOT A TENACITY TO NOT GIVE UP, THEN YOU COULD BE THAT NEXT TECH STAR. ROWSELL HIMSELF STARTED VEND IN HIS SPARE BEDROOM. WE'VE GONE FROM FOUR YEARS AGO, JUST ME ON MY LAPTOP, AND NOW WE'RE 200 PEOPLE ACROSS SEVEN COUNTRIES. I BUT ll"s BEEN A LONG JOURNEY. I IT'S NEVER AN OVERNIGHT SUCCESS, SO, SURE, WE CAN MEASURE THE SUCCESS OF VEND OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS. BUT THERE WAS ALL THAT 15 YEARS OF HARD SLOG AND MAKING MISTAKES AND LEARNING AS I WENT. BUT AS TECHNOLOGY IS EVOLVING MORE QUICKLY, SO THE EVOLUTION OF THE TECH STAR SPECIES IS SPEEDING UP. I 1s YEARS BECOMES 1s MONTHS. I I THINK I'VE LEARNED MORE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS THAN MOST PEOPLE LEARN AT JOBS THAT THEY'VE BEEN IN FOR 4O YEARS. HAVING GROWN UP WITH THE WORLD WIDE WEB, THIS GENERATION THINKS GLOBAL FROM DAY ONE, AND THEIR AMBITIONS ARE AS VAST AS THE INTERNET. MY MOTIVATION RIGHT NOW IS TO DO AS MANY PROJECTS AS WE CAN. FOR ME, IT'S JUST TO MAKE AS MUCH IMPACT AS VVE CAN IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. I WANT TO PUT THE STORY STAMP ON EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT. SHE AND OVENS ARE ALSO PUTTING THEIR STAMP ON OTHER YOUNG START-UPS WHO'VE SCRAPPED THEIR STUDIES TO BUILD A DIFFERENT FUTURE. WE WERE BOTH STUDYING ARCHITECTURE AT THE TIME. SO WE WERE NATURALLY ATTRACTED TO NICE BUILDINGS AND HOUSES. BUT IT OCCURRED TO US THAT WE WOULD PROBABLY NEVER EVER GET TO OWN ONE OF THEM. PAUL ORGAN AND KURT MEYER SET UP AN APP FOR BOARDING SCHOOLS. YOU KNOW, WITH CLOUD TECHNOLOGY THE WAY IT IS NOW, YOU CAN BUYALL THE RESOURCES YOU NEED FOR UNDER $1000. WE'RE AIMING TO HAVE 50 SCHOOLS BY END OF THE YEAR, AND THEN 200 BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR. WE BOTH LOOK UP TO ROD DRURY, I GUESS, AND HE SAID THAT HE STARTED OUT WITH A SMALLER VENTURE, I AND THEN WENT BIGGER AND BIGGER. I WE'VE ALWAYS KNOWN THAT BOARDING SCHOOLS WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A STEPPING STONE. IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE THE NEXT BIG XERO, WHICH IS EVENTUALLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO I m THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS. I IT'S A PRETTY EXCITING TIME WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS LIKE FACEBOOK, TWITTER, THE PATH TO MOBILE. ANDY HAMILTON FROM BUSINESS INCUBATOR THE ICEHOUSE SAYS NZERS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PIONEERS. IT'S JUST THE SPEED OF CHANGE THAT I THINK IS DIFFERENT FOR US. IT'S LIKE A NEW LAND OF INNOVATION AND SPEED. THATS PRETTY COOL TO BE A PART OF. BUTAS OPPORTUNITIES GROW, SO DOES THE COMPETITION. IF YOU GO BACK TO WHEN THE APP STORE FIRST OPENED, YOU COULD GET NOTICED BECAUSE YOU WERE ONE OF FEW. NOW YOU'RE ONE OF MILLIONS OF APPS OUT THERE. IT'S JUST LIKE RESTAURANTS. ONE IN 50 RESTAURANTS MAKES GREAT MONEY. EVERYONE ELSE LOSES. IT'S NO DIFFERENT TO THAT. ALL THOSE ENTREPRENEURS TRYING IT ARE LEARNING SOMETHING. THEY FAIL, THEY LEARN 100 TIMES MORE THAN WHEN THEY SUCCEED. THEY MAKES NZ, AND IT MAKES THOSE ENTREPRENEURS EVEN BETTER. SO YOU'LL ALWAYS HEAR THE STORIES OF PEOPLE THAT SMACK IT OUT ON THEIR FIRST DEAL, BUT THAT'S ALMOST LIKE WINNING LOTTO, AND IT'S GONNA BE REALLY GOOD TIMING. SO YOU'LL ALWAYS HEAR THOSE STORIES, BUT MORE REPEATABLE IS TREATING BUSINESS AS A SERIES OF BABY STEPS. BUT JUST HOW REALISTIC ARE THESE WANNABE TECH STARS? TRADE ME FOUNDER SAM MORGAN TOLD ME HE SEES A LOT OF ATFEMPTS AND VERY FEW SUMMITS. YET VAUGHAN ROWSELL SAYS THESE YOUNGSTERS SHOULDN'T BE AFRAID TO FAIL. WE NEED THE NEXT WAVE OF ENTREPRENEURS COMING THROUGH, FOLLOWING IN THOSE DREAMS, BECAUSE THEY WILL INSPIRE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. AND THAT CAN ONLY BE GOOD FOR NZ, BECOMING LESS RELIANT ON DAIRY. ONE OF THE GREATEST OPPORTUNITIES WE'VE GOT HERE IN NZ IS TO BUILD A HIGH-TECH ECONOMY. WITHIN THE NEXT 10 YEARS, HIGH-TECH IS GOING TO BE OUR GREATEST EXPORT, I GUARANTEE THAT. THIS NEW WAVE OF TECH ENTREPRENEURS MAY BE FASTER AND MORE GLOBAL, BUTAT HEART, THEY'RE STILL DEFINED BY HARD WORK AND A WILL TO SUCCEED, AND THEY'RE FEARLESS. I YEAH. YOU HAVE To BE. (CHUCKLES) I HUNGER IS THE THING THAT I'D SAY WOULD DIFFERENTIATE ME FROM OTHER PEOPLE. AND IN CASE YOU'RE WONDERING, IT'S NOTABOUT THE MONEY. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU'RE NOT LOSING IT. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY ABOUT THE MONEY. BEING YOUNG HAS ALLOWED US TO JUST TAKE RISKS. IT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE END VISION AND END GOAL - TO GET THIS INTO EVERY SINGLE HAND IN THE WORLD. < BUT EVEN WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO AND LIE ON A BEACH IN BALI? NO, WE'LL BE ONTO THE NEXT IDEA STRAIGHT AWAY. WOW, THEY'RE AN INSPIRATION, AREN'T THEY? UNLIKE THESE GUYS, WHO ARE, WELL, THEY'RE PAUL EGO AND JEREMY CORBETI'. THE BIG QUESTION THIS WEEK - WHAT ARE THE NEW FEATURES OF THE NEW BMW 7-SERIES LIMOUSINES? WELL, THEY WON'T HAVE TEA AND COFFEE CUP HOLDERS. THE OTHER BIG QUESTION - IF THE MAORI PARTY WANTS TO CHANGE THE NATIONALANTHEM, I WHAT DO THEY WANT TO CHANGE IT TO? I WELL, I HEARD THEY MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE IT TO WHAT DOES THE MARAMAR FOX SAY?' FOX SAY?' NO, APPARENTLY, IT'S JINGOS. IS IT NING, NING, ACTUALLY, JEREMY, CAN WE JUST TALK A LI'I'I'LE BITABOUT MY NEW CONTRACT? I'D LIKE TO DISTRACT YOU WITH A TWO-PART REFERENDUM, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE DESIGNS FOR OUR NEW UNIFORM? THEY'RE BOTH FINE. UM, THERE'S JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS ON THIS CONTRACT, THOUGH. IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE, WHICH ONE WOULD YOU CHOOSE? THE BLUE OR THE PINK? WELL, I DON'T... LOOK, TO BE HONEST, MORE OF A QUESTION IS DO YOU KNOW WHO RAWSHARK IS? THE PINK, THEN? SO WE'RE GOING WITH THIS ONE. SECOND PART OF THE REFERENDUM. DO YOU WANT TO STICK WITH THE OLD SUITS OR GO WITH THE NEW DESIGN YOU JUST CHOSE? I'LL STICK WITH THE OLD SUITS. I'M HAPPY TO LEAVE IT. WELL, GOOD ONE. WHY DID YOU WASTE MY TIME SELECTING A NEW DESIGN? YOU JUST BLEW $25 MILLION, PAUL. I COULD DO WITH A CUP OF TEA AFTER THAT. YOU CAN'T HAVE A TEA BREAK. YOU WASTED YOUR TEA BREAK TALKING ABOUT THE UNIFORMS. I SIGHS: OH, JINGOS. I LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT THE BEST TWEETS OF THE PAST WEEK. WELL, PADDY'S BACK WITH US ON THE PANEL TODAY, ALONG WITH VICTORIA UNIVERSITY POLITICS LECTURER JON JOHANSSON, WHO'S WRITTEN A NEW BOOK, 'US LEADERSHIP IN POLITICAL TIME AND SPACE.' GOOD MORNING, JOHN, AND GREAT TO SEE YOU. AND AWARM WELCOME TO NZ HERALD COLUMNIST FRAN O'SULLIVAN. LET'S START WITH THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL HOUSING, FRAN. WHEN IS AN ASSET SALE NOT AN ASSET SALE? AND IS SHE SLIGHTLY OUT OF STEP WITH THE PRIME MINISTER HERE? WHEN PAULA BENNETT SAID SO, YES, SHE IS SLIGHTLY OUT OF STEP, BUT I GUESS SHE'S GOT TO GET THE SEMANTICS AND LOGIC SORTED OUT. AND, UM, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE WHAT DIDN'T COME ACROSS WAS THIS POLICY OF REINVESTMENT THAT THE GOVERNMENTS BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHICH I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS SOLD VERY WELL. BUT SHE WON'T TELL US HOW MUCH IS BEING REINVESTED. HOW MUCH WE CAN GUARANTEE IS GOING BACK. WELL, AS SHE SAID, HER FEETARE ONLY JUST UNDER THE TABLE, AND I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THEY HAVE IT ALL WORKED OUT YET, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE RIGHT TOWARD THE END OF THE GOVERNMENTS TERM, ITACTUALLY DID COMMISSION TREASURY TO DO SOME MORE WORK IN THIS AREA. IT lS- WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS USED INTERNATIONALLY. IT'S USED IN OTHER COUNTRIES MORE CLOSE TO NZ. NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT HAS DONE SOMETHING SIMILAR INVOLVING PRIVATE SECTOR AND REDEVELOPING PLACES WHERE YOU END UP- THE BONNYRIGG PROJECT IN SYDNEY. UH, GOING FROM 800 HOUSES TO 2300. NICE PARKS. ALL SORTS OF THINGS. BUT WHAT I'D SAY ABOUT THAT, PADDY, IS ALSO THAT SHE WOULDN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IF A DEVELOPER BUYS LAND, WILL THEY BE MADE TO BUILD A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SOCIAL HOUSING. SHE ALSO CONFIRMED THERE THAT IWl WILL GO TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE. WHAT'S STOPPING THEM FROM SELLING? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S AN INCREDIBLY COMPLEX THING THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING HERE, AND AS YOU SEE WITH BONNYRIGG, IT CAN WORK. YOU CAN INCREASE HOUSING SUPPLY. BUT THIS IS SO COMPLEX. THERE IS SO MANY FISH HOOKS, AND THEY'RE DOING THINGS ON SUCH A LARGE SCALE. I MEAN, AS SHE SAID HERSELF, IT IS AN ASSET SALE. THEY COULD SELL UP TO 20,000 HOUSES. OVER $1 BILLION. POLITICALLY, IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO BE FEASIBLE TO DO THIS - SELL HOUSING AND NOT ACTUALLY END UP WITH HOUSING FOR PEOPLE, AND SO I THINK THE MECHANISMS ARE THERE. OBVIOUSLY THE BONNYRIGG EXAMPLE. THESE ARE, AGAIN, USING COMMUNITY HOUSING ASSOCIATIONS, USING BANKS, OTHER PARTNERS, THE BUILDING PARTNERS. AND THEY'RE LONG-TERM PROJECTS, AND THEY'RE MANDATED AND DONE PROPERLY. CHRISTCHURCH CITY COUNCIL IS RIGHT NOW LOOKING AT WHAT IT DOES WITH ITS SOCIAL HOUSING. FORMING A COMPANY, BRINGING IN OTHERS, GETTING TOGETHER WITH SOCIAL-HOUSING PROVIDERS - I MEAN, THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD. BUT, JON, VVHAT ARE THE POLITICAL RISKS FOR THIS? YOU TALK ABOUT MAN DATE. THIS TAKES A LOT OF PLANNING AND DETAIL. WHY WEREN'T WE HEARING IT BEFORE THE ELECTION? WELL, THAT'S SURPRISING, ISN'T IT, THAT THE FRAMING ISN'TAS SKILFUL AS IT NORMALLY IS OFF THE BLOCKS. BECAUSE, FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY HAD THOUGHT ABOUT IT, A LOT OF THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE WOULD BE MOLLIFIED IF, FOR INSTANCE, THE MONEY WAS GONNA BE RING-FENCED. BUT WE CAN'T, ACTUALLY. WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA GO TO THE CONSOLIDATED REVENUE ACCOUNT I OR IS IT GOING TO BE RING-FENCED. I AND IF PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE MORE EFFICIENTLY PROVIDE SOCIAL HOUSING FOR THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NZERS WHO NEED IT, THEN I THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE MORE BEHIND FIXING THAT WHOLE POLICYAREA UP. BECAUSE IT DOES NEED IT, RIGHT? I MEAN, WITH ALL THE BENIGN NEGLECT OF, YOU KNOW, 6O YEARS OF THE STATE HOUSING STOCK, YOU END UP WITH THIS POOR RESOURCE ALLOCATION THAT THE MINISTER OUTLINED TODAY, WHERE PEOPLE, THEIR CHILDREN HAVE LEFT, AND THEY'RE IN THIS FOUR-BEDROOM HOME, AND THEN THERE'S PEOPLE LMNG IN GARAGES AND WHAT HAVE YOU. AND, I MEAN, I CANNOT SEE HOW WE CAN BE ON THE CUSP OF SOMETHING SPECIAL, AS OUR PRIME MINISTER TELLS YOU, WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE LMNG IN THIS CONDITION. THIS IS NOT THE NZ TRADITION. JUST VERY QUICKLY, PADDY, BEFORE WE CHANGE TOPICS. THE MINISTER THERE SAID SHE'S OK WITH PEOPLE MAKING A PROFIT OUT OF SOCIAL HOUSING AND THE SELL-OFF OF THESE PROPERTIES. THAT'LL BE RED RAG TO THE BULL FOR SOME, WOULDN'T IT? YEAH, WELL, SOMEONE'S GONNA MAKE A PROFIT SOMEWHERE. SHE ADMITTED THAT ALONG THE WAY, AND THAT'S ALL PART OF IT. AND I THINK, ACTUALLY, YOU TALK ABOUT RING-FENCING THERE, I THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS GONNA MAKE A PROFIT IN ALL OF THIS. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE TO MONEY FROM THE SELL-OFF GO BACK INTO THE HOUSING STOCK. I IT WILL GO TO THE CONSOLIDATED FUND. I WHICH MAKES IT PRONE TO ATTACKS FROM THEIR OPPONENTS ON IDEOLOGICAL GROUNDS, RIGHT? THAT'S RIGHT. THE IDEOLOGY IS UNDER THIS. YES, THERE'S THE PRACTICAL EXAMPLES, BUT UNDERNEATH IT WAS WELL, THERE IS AN IDEOLOGY. IT IS A SELL-OFF. THEY DON'T WANT TO SAY IT, ALTHOUGH SHE DID BY ACCIDENT TODAY. BUT THE IDEOLOGY IS UNDERNEATH IT TOO. ONE OF THE WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS IS TO DO, YOU KNOW, WHAT JON HAS HINTED AT, AND TO ACTUALLYA RING-FENCED FUND, WHERE IF YOU ARE SELLING DOWN STATE ASSETS, THE MONEY GOES IN THERE, AND IT'S USED FOR REINVESTMENT. IT IS TRANSPARENT, AND IT'S NOT JUSTA LINE IN A CONSOLIDATED FUND, AS IT IS AS AT THE MOMENT. THEY HAD ONE. IT WAS CALLED THE FUTURE INVESTMENT FUND, BUT IT'S NOT AN ASSET SALE. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE TO POLITICS OFFSHORE. THE US MIDTERMS, JON. WHAT IMPACT IS THIS GONNA HAVE ON OBAMA IF THEY LOSE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE, THE DEMOCRATS? WELL, IT'S NOT AN UNUSUAL SITUATION. I LOOKED AT EVERY PRESIDENT SINCE HARRY TRUMAN. SO EVERY POST-WAR US PRESIDENT, BAR HARRY TRUMAN, WHO'S HAD TWO TERMS HAS ENDED UP IN THEIR LAST TERM WITH A CONGRESS ENTIRELY OF THEIR OPPONENTS. SO HE'S NOT GOING INTO AN UNUSUAL SITUATION, AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I CAN'T WAIT FOR IT TO HAPPEN. SO HE'S NOT GOING INTO AN UNUSUAL I HOPE IT DOES. I CAN'T WAIT FOR IT TO HAPPEN. SO HE'S NOT GOING INTO AN UNUSUAL I HOPE IT DOES. WHY? WHY? WELL, BECAUSE OBAMA... THIS FRUSTRATING PRESIDENCY. PROMISED SO MUCH. SIX YEARS OF BLANKET OBSTRUCTION FROM THE REPUBLICANS. NOW, THE DYNAMIC CHANGES WITH THEM CONTROLLING CONGRESS. SAYING NO AIN'T GONNA CUT IT I IF THEY WANT THE PRESIDENCY IN 2016. I SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND CONSTRUCTIVE WAYS OF ENGAGING WITH THE PRESIDENT. THEY NEED SOME LEGISLATIVE WINS, YOU'RE SAYING, TO GET THINGS THROUGH? SHOW THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING? YOU'RE SAYING, TO GET THINGS THROUGH? SHOW THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING? THEY NEED THE APPEARANCE THAT THEY CAN BREAK THE GRIDLOCK, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE PARADOXES OF THIS ELECTION -AND CHRIS COVERED SOME OF THIS - WAS, ON ONE HAND, THEY'RE SAYING, 'VOTE FOR US, AND WE'LL STOP OBAMA.' BUT THEY'RE ALSO SAYING, 'VOTE FOR US, AND WE'LL END THE GRIDLOCK.' NOW, BOTH OF THOSE THINGS AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. SO YOU CAN'T PROMISE TO GET RID OF HEALTHCARE WHEN THERE'S A PRESIDENTIAL VETO. SO THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD, BUT ALSO FOR OBAMA, IT'S GOING TO BE THE TEST OF HIS... CAN HE GET HIMSELF OUT OF THAT WHITE HOUSE OFFICE AND ENGAGE WITH THE CONGRESS IN MEANINGFUL WAYS, BECAUSE SO FAR, HIS SECOND TERM HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELYAIMLESS, AND HE NEEDS WINS TOO. FRAN, I JUST WANT TO ASK. I SPOKE TO MIKE MOORE ABOUT THE TPP - THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP THERE. HE'S STILL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. THAT'LL BE SOMETHING YOU WILL BE WATCHING? YEAH, AND IN ACTUAL FACT, PICKING UP ON WHAT JON SAYS, I THINK IT'S A POSITIVE IF WE DO GETA REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED SENATE BECAUSE THE SENATE, IF YOU HARK BACK A BIT, IT WAS ACTUALLY SUSAN SCHWAB, THE REPUBLICAN US TRADE NEGOTIATOR, WHO LAUNCHED TPP WITH PHIL GOFF IN NEW YORK, AND SO THEY'VE GOT SKIN IN THE GAME. SO, IN ACTUAL FACT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DOMESTIC POLITICS, IT'S OBAMA'S DEMOCRATIC HOUSE LEADER, UM, YOU KNOW, HARRY REID, WHO WAS OPPOSING THIS. YEAH, BUT THE PROBLEM WILL BE IS THAT ON ONE HAND, IF THE DEMS GO INTO MINORITY STATUS, THEN IT'LL BE ALL ABOUT PROTECTING JOBS. SO THEY VVILL TAKE THAT OPPOSITIONAL STANCE IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR PRESIDENT'S POSITION, AND THE REPUBLICANS, I JUST CANNOT CONCEIVE OF ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE REPUBLICANS GIVE PRESIDENT OBAMA FAST-TRACK AUTHORITY. YEAH, BUT WHAT THE LATEST INDICATIONS ARE IS THAT HE MAY JUST TAKE THE BILL TO THE HOUSE ANYWAY. AND BEFORE WE GO TO THE BREAK, PADDY, YOUR THOUGHTS THERE? YEAH, I THINK THAT WE WILL SEE SOME MOVEMENT ON THE TPP. THAT, EITHER WAY, WHATEVER HAPPENS NEXT WEEK OR SO, WE'LL KNOW MORE WHEN WE SEE PRESIDENT OBAMA AT APEC IN A WEEK'S TIME. ALL RIGHT. THANKS, GUYS. WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE. WE WILL BE BACK SHORTLY WITH ATASTE OF WHAT COULD BE MAKING NEWS NEXT WEEK. STAY TUNED. JON, IF I CAN COME BACK TO YOU ABOUT ISLAMIC STATE. THIS POTENTIAL CHANGE IN POWER IN THE SENATE, IS THAT GONNA MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO THE UNITED STATES MILITARY ACTION AGAINST THIS GROUP. THAT IS A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE THERE IS A VERY, VERY DUBIOUS LEGAL AUTHORITY FOR THAT ACTION AT THE MOMENT. NORMALLY, REALLY, IN THE WAKE OF THE VIETNAM CONFLICT, IN THE WAR POWERS ACT IN THE '7OS, UH, THERE NEEDS TO BE AN EXPLICIT AUTHORISATION FOR MILITARY ACTION, AND THAT IS THE WAY OF THE CONGRESS KEEPING A CHECK ON THE UNFETTERED WAR POWERS OF THE US PRESIDENT. NOW, AT THE MOMENT, THE CONGRESS HAS NOT DONE A THING. IT HAS LEFT IT UP TO OBAMA. OBAMA HAS NOT ASKED FOR A NEVV AUTHORISATION. NOW THE CURLY FROM A NZ PERSPECTIVE, IN CONSIDERING OUR INVOLVEMENT, IS THE TWO AUTHORITIES THAT OBAMA IS RELYING UPON FOR AN ACTION AGAINST ISIS IS THE WAR ON TERROR AUTHORISATION, WHICH WAS MADE THREE DAYS AFTER 9/11, AND THEN THE FOLLOWING YEAR, THE AUTHORISATION ON THE USE OF MILITARY FORCE IN IRAQ. NOW, THE IRAQ AUTHORISATION IS THE ONE THAT WE EXPLICITLY REJECTED UNDER PRIME MINISTER CLARK IN OUR NOT GOING TO IRAQ. SO IF THAT IS PART OF THE LEGAL AUTHORITY OF THE ACTION OF WHICH OUR GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COMMIT US, I THINK THERE IS A REAL CURLY PROBLEM FOR THE PRIME MINISTER. PADDY? PROBLEM FOR THE PRIME MINISTER. PADDY? YEAH, AND IAGREE, AND I THINK YOU SAW THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAD TO GO IN WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTER INTO BAGHDAD TO NEGOTIATE AN INVITE IN THERE FOR THEM THAT HAD THE RIGHT KIND OF LEGAL AUTHORITY. THIS IS ONE OF THE MANY, MANY COMPLICATIONS OF JOHN KEY'S DECISION WITH IS IN ACTUALLY GETTING THE RIGHT LEGAL AUTHORITY TO GET INTO IRAQ. I THINK IT'S THE MOST COMPLICATED AND DIFFICULT DECISIONS THAT JOHN KEY HAS FACED AS PRIME MINISTER. BUT, ALSO, PADDY, THERE'S THE ISSUE HERE TOO OF YOU NEED A NEW... I BELIEVE YOU NEED A NEW AUTHORISATION BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO SAY WHY WE'RE GOING IN THERE. BUT, ALSO, WHAT'S YOUR EXIT STRATEGY. IF YOU'RE RELYING ON THIS UMBRELLA WAR ON TERROR AUTHORISATION AND THE IRAQ ONE, THERE'S NO ACCOU NTABI LITY AT ALL. FRAN? AND THE IRAQ ONE, THERE'S NO ACCOU NTABI LITY AT ALL. FRAN? YEAH, I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS, TOO, IN THE FRAMING OF THIS IS WE'RE JUST COMING ON TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL, AND A LOT OF WHAT THE ACTIONS NZ TAKES IN THE FUTURE WILL BE LOOKED AT ALSO IN TERMS OF A MUCH BIGGER GAME, AND SO WE NEED TO THINK WHATS OUR POSITION GONNA BE IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL, WHAT'S OUR NATIONAL INTEREST POSITION, AND I THINK IT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S GONNA TAKE A LOT OF THOUGHT BY MFAT. YOU KNOW, BY THE PRIME MINISTER'S OWN DEPARTMENT, AND THERE'S DECISIONS AROUND THERE. HAS HE GOT BE THE RIGHT SORT OF PEOPLE TO NOW, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT HE'S PROPERLY BRIEFED AND THINKS THROUGH ALL THE ISSUES. COS WE HAVE AVERY PUBLIC GAME OUT THERE, PLUS OUR DOMESTIC INTERESTS. I YEAH, AND so IT'S CHANGED. I I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE WAS A LIKELIHOOD THERE WOULD BE A DECISION ON MONDAY. I THINK JOHN KEY WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE GONE AWAY TO THE BIG MEETINGS, APEC AND G20, I KNOWING WHERE WE STOOD. I BUT I ACTUALLY THINK NOW WE MIGHT SEE HIM KICK FOR TOUCH AND BUY SOME TIME. I THINK IT IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN BEING ABLE TO MAKE A QUICK DECISION LIKE VVHAT AUSTRALIA AND CANADA AN D THE US HAVE DONE AND THE GREAT BRITS. SO I THINK WE MIGHT SEE JOHN KEY KICK THE TOUCH. HE MIGHT WANT TO BUY SOME TIME ABOUT THIS; ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED DECISION. HE'D BASICALLY BE COMMITTING NZ TO WAR THAT COULD LAST FOR FIVE TO 10 YEARS. YEAH, BUTALSO, THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE TO IT. I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES, THE PERSON THEY HAVE AT THE UN IS SAMANTHA POWER, WHO WROTE HUGELY ABOUT GENOCIDE, AND OK, THERE'S WAR ON TERROR, BUT THERE'S A VERY REAL EFFECT IN IRAQ. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WIPED OUT. SO IT'S NOT JUST GOING FOR THE COMPETENCE. IT'S ACTUALLY SAVING LIVES AS WELL. THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES TO, YOU KNOW, TO THINK THROUGH. IS IS JUST SUCH A BIG PROBLEM. THEY'RE CONTROLLING A COUNTRY WITH A POPULATION THE SIZE OF FINLAND. WE'RE SEEING TERRORISM ALLAROUND THE WORLD. AND CROWDSOURCING, AS IN THE HERALD THIS MORNING. IT'S A TOTALLY NEW THING, AND THE PRIME MINISTER REALLY HAS TO DO SOMETHING. BUT THERE'S JUST SO MANY DIFFERENT PRESSURES COMING ON THIS DECISION. I THINK IT'S THE BIGGEST CALL THAT JOHN KEY WILL HAVE TO MAKE AS PRIME MINISTER. OK, LETS CHANGE GEARS. RAWSHARK. NOW, REMEMBER, THIS IS THE HACKER WHO'S APPARENTLY DUMPED ALL THE DOCUMENTS THAT THE BOOK 'DIRTY POLITICS' IS BASED ON. AND, REMEMBER, WE HAD NICKY HAGER'S HOUSE BEING SEARCHED A FEW WEEKS BACK. CAME IN WITH A WARRANT TO TRY AND FIND OUT WHO RAWSHARK IS. ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE HEAR THAT THE PRIME MINISTER APPARENTLY KNOWS WHO RAWSHARK IS. INTERESTING SITUATION, FRAN, ISN'T IT? ONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MIKE BUSH MIGHT HAVE SENT THE TEAM AROUND FORA LITTLE CHAT BY NOW, AND I SAY THAT SLIGHTLY FACETIOUS BUT NOT. I MEAN, IF HE KNOWS SOMETHING AND SOMETHING MAJOR IS HAPPENING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY HAVE TO GO INTO NICKY HAGER'S HOME, I MEAN... MORE THAN THAT, INTO NICKY'S DAUGHTER'S CLOTHING TO FIND OUT THE ANSWER OF WHO RAWSHARK IS. WELL, THE GREENS ARE SAYING, JON, THAT THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD STAND BY FORA SEARCH WARRANT. THE ISSUE IS THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME, AND IF HE'S GONNA PUT OUT THE INFORMATION... HE SAID SOMEONE TOLD HIM, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. YEAH, NOTA GOOD WEEK FOR THE POLICE IN THAT SENSE FROM A PERCEPTUAL POINT OF VIEW BECAUSE OF THE DECISION NOT TO, UH, DO ANYTHING WITH THE ROASTBUSTER CASE. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CONCERN ABOUT THE POLICE. ARE THEYAPPLYING THE LAW IN AN ARBITRARY FASHION, AND IS HAGER BEING JUST HUNG OUT TO DRY HERE, UM, YOU KNOW, AS AN EXAMPLE. MIND YOU, IT'S IN THE PAST WHERE NEWS MEDIA HAD POLICE WARRANTS AROUND THINGS LIKE TEAPOT TAPES, WHEREAS NICKY HAGER DIDN'T REALLY FACE ANYTHING WHEN IT CAME TO DON BRASH'S EMAILS, AND HE WAS A LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, GOING FOR AROUND TO BE PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF, AND THEY JUST NEVER REALLY CAME ANYWHERE NEAR HIM. SO I THINK IT'S OK TO SAY NICKY'S A SAINT AND SHOULD BE OUT THERE, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE OTHER NEWS MEDIA, YEAH, PUT EVEN STEVENS WITH NICKY ON THIS. ALL RIGHT, PADDY, CAN WE GO TO YOU BEFORE WE GO? I THINK HUGE PRESSURE ON THE POLICE TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN HANDLE A BIG POLITICAL INVESTIGATION PROPERLY, BECAUSE EVERY OTHER ONE I'VE SEEN THEM DO, THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY FAILED. GOOD LUCK, MIKE BUSH. SEE IF YOU CAN DO IT. CALL JOHN KEY AND START FROM THERE. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE. NOW, A QUICK LOOK ON WHAT TO WATCH FOR NEXT WEEK'S NEWS. JOHN KEY THIS WEEK HEADS OFF TO HIS THREE BIG INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS. APEC IN BEIJING, THE ASEAN SUMMIT IN BURMAAND G20 IN BRISBANE, HOOKING UP WITH OBAMA AND OTHER WORLD LEADERS. SO WILL TOMORROWS CABINET DECIDE ON NZ'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE WAR AGAINST IE BEFORE HE FLIES, KEY WILL GIVE HIS PROMISED BIG SECURITY SPEECH ON FOREIGN FIGHTERS ON WEDNESDAY. THE LABOUR LEADERSHIP ROADSHOW HITS THE HAWKES BAY, TAURANGA, NEW PLYMOUTH AND HAMILTON. AND TREASURY RELEASES THE CROWN ACCOUNTS ON FRIDAY. WE WON'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT THOSE CROWN ACCOUNTS, BUT NEXT WEEK ON THE NATION, THIS IS GREAT. A SPECIAL BROADCAST FROM THE CLARENCE STREET THEATRE IN THE BELLWETHER SEAT OF HAMILTON WEST. THE FOUR LABOUR LEADERSHIP CONTENDERS DEBATE IN FRONT OF A LIVE AUDIENCE. CAN THEY CONNECT WITH AN ELECTORATE THAT'S ALMOST ALWAYS GONE WITH THE GOVERNMENT. SO THE NATION GOES TO THE TRON, AND YOU CAN COME ALONG. DETAILS ARE ON OUR WEBSITE - THENATION.CO.NZ. I BUT THAT ls OUR snow FOR TODAY, I ALTHOUGH IAM REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO NEXT WEEK, LISA, DOWN IN THE TRON. ME TOO. WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU DOWN IN HAMILTON. IF YOU CAN'T BE THERE, DO WATCH. I m THE MEANTIME, HAVE A GREAT WEEK. I lfiArnous BYABLE I <i>I</i> VVVWNABLE.CO.NZ I VVERE MADEPOSSIBLE WITH FLIQDING FROM NZONAIR. IABLE2014I