A ...brought to you by the first-ever Mazda CX3. Tonight on Sunday, if you could see what a lost loved one would look like today, would you do it? You could hear it coming and you could hear the screech of the tyres. A son taken too soon. The car was jammed. The side was against another tree. Brothers separate for life. Everywhere he went, I wanted to be there as well. 17 years on, they'll see him again... A little bit apprehensive. ...as he would look today. I just see him as a little, wee boy. (GASPS) Then... From call centre to war zone. GUNFIRE ...the freedom fighters on the front line... It's everybody's war. We will fight you all together. ...fighting against Islamic State. And... You'd have to say they're more... You'd have to say they're more... ...out there. ...the ultimate in free-range parenting. What does the Education Department say about this? Um, we had the Education Department ring us up and threaten us with a $10,000 fine per child per day they weren't at school. Captions by Anne Langford. Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2015 Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. It was a crash that shocked Southland and outraged the nation. Little Samuel Kingsbury was killed when a car full of drunk teenagers smashed through his family's front fence. He was just 7 years old. Samuel became a statistic, one of the 501 motor-vehicle deaths across the nation that year, and 17 years on, he hasn't been forgotten; not by his parents, Ian and Karen, not by his brothers and sister and not by Brake ` a road safety organisation with a novel approach to reducing devastating crashes. Brake has created images of victims like Samuel to show what they would look like today, and the families are about to see them for the very first time. Here's John Hudson. If your child had been killed in a car crash,... I still think of him as a 7�-year-old. ...would you want to see him again, not as he once was, but as he would be today? Scary. Ridiculous. Holy moly. Would you take that emotional risk? Well, tonight we follow the Kingsburys on their journey to rediscover their son Samuel, killed 17 years ago. In my mind, I just see him as a little, wee boy. Very sensitive. Very quiet. Unassuming. Very caring. Too responsible for his own age, really. It's taken a long, long, long time to come to that point where you'd wake up in the morning and think, 'Oh.' Oh. He was a 7-year-old playing on his front lawn. Too young to know anything about what was going on in the town he lived in. CAR REVS, TYRES SQUEAL Gore 1998. The local sport ` booze and cruises in top gear. Old bombs packed with hoons rarking up the local cops. Get him home and into bed so he's right for PD tomorrow. But on January 17th, one carload crossed a line they will never forget. I said, 'I'll drive.' You know. I was the most sober out of all. So I jumped in and drove up the hill. Phillip Grigg was at the wheel. Six other drunken teenagers were also in the car. Ended up getting about four, five bottles of vodka. Vodka and teenagers packed inside this wreck; Phillip was driving and he was doing heaps of skinnies and snakies on the road. alcohol-addled, taking turns at the wheel. We were going down the hill and I could tell we were getting faster and faster. And the kids were playing on the footpath. Yeah. Samuel was on his trike on our front section and Adam was coming. The boys had been playing on their trikes outside their house. You could hear it coming and you could hear the screech of the tyres, then the noise of the car going through the fence. Karen and Ian Kingsbury were inside. We rushed out and we saw the car on our front section, and then... The car was jammed. The front was against a bush. The side was against another tree. And Samuel Kingsbury was beneath it. Dead. He had blood coming out of his ears, his mouth, nose. These teenagers were getting out of the car, and they wouldn't say anything, and the horn was blowing and sounding off. Oh man. The driver, Phillip Grigg, and Tee-Jay Crossen, the 17-year-old considered responsible for the car, both received prison sentences. In court it was revealed, Lynette Cormack, the mother of another of the boys in the car, supplied the vodka. Even though I wasn't in the car, I helped. I might as well have given him the gun. She was fined $500. Karen and Ian Kingsbury buried Samuel and grieved. It's taken a long, long, long time. It takes two years to get over the original trauma and it takes two years for you to learn to live again. It takes two years to learn to enjoy things again. And avoid sad stories and sad films. And avoid sad stories and sad films. And sad people. And avoid sad stories and sad films. And sad people. It just brings you down. Um, but after 18 years, I can, um, honestly say I can talk about him now with some enjoyment in my heart. It's taken a long time, though, but we, yeah, we're much happier now. Samuel was the oldest of Karen and Ian's four children. He was closest to his brother Adam. They were best mates. And they had spent a lot of time together: tree climbing, making huts, doing what boys do. Hammering nails into bits of wood. Making go-carts. Pushing trikes round. Um, so Adam will remember Samuel the most. Everywhere he went, I wanted to be there as well. His friends; I wanted to be my friends. He was always the shy one and I was always the loud one. So together we were quite a good, wee pair. When Samuel died, Jack, the youngest of the Kingsbury children, wasn't even born. That's... That's... ...crazy, eh? I can't imagine, like, a group from my year driving around with four bottles of vodka and then killing someone. Jack only knows Samuel as the 7-year-old in the photos, killed by teenagers his age. And that's, like, 'Holy shit, what's happening here?' eh. Since Samuel died, there have been big changes. Back in '98 you could drive an unwarranted, unregistered rust bucket around Gore until the cops confiscated the distributor cap. Today it's much harder to get a licence. There are restrictions on driving hours for beginners, zero tolerance on drinking and driving for under-20s. Maybe Samuel's demise was a small part, a small turning point. Chook, chook, chook, chook, chook. While the Kingsburys have got on with their lives, they still believe there is much more that can be done to stop the killing. I think it's got a long way to go yet. I think the alcohol lobbying agencies are doing a great job of keeping alcohol to the forefront in promoting it. Now the Kingsburys want to be part of the solution ` keeping road safety front and centre in every driver's mind. They're off to Wellington to see their dead son as he would look if he was still alive. You see, I still think of him as a 7�-year-old. I don't see him as a-soon-to-be 25-year-old. After the break,... Something unlike we've ever done before. What would Samuel look like today had he lived? Oh wow! (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) Isn't it? 5 Ian and Karen Kingsbury have come to Wellington with their eldest son, Adam, to join four other families, all of whom have had a child killed in a road crash. Here they meet Duncan and Emma Woods who lost their 4-year-old son, Nayan, five years ago; DUNCAN: It's winter there. DUNCAN: It's winter there. It's winter there. And again. Hands down. And again. Hands down. It's winter there. killed on the footpath when a 17-year-old boy racer lost control of his car. Nayan's older brother Jacob was seriously injured. Today, Jacob, now 11, has joined his parents in a safety campaign to try and emphasise the human cost of road crashes. I think it's still every day. Like, every day there's a Nayan-shaped hole in our lives. I don't know` I don't think that does go away. It's really hard to find... to find a word to describe such a deep sense of loss, the depths of despair, really. For me, it was probably two years of... just felt like living in darkness, and sort of slowly start to come out of it. Actually, the impact goes on through our,... you know, our lives and probably into the next generation. What we hope is that, um, it has people think about the impact of their driving. Changes that attitude and saves lives. There's plenty of detail in there, isn't there? There's plenty of detail in there, isn't there? It's really nice. The campaign is being assisted by Weta Digital. They're creating images of road-crash victims not as they were when they died, but as they would appear today had they not been killed in a road crash. It's something unlike we've really ever done before. It all starts out with a forensic artist's interpretation of Samuel. The forensic artist uses many of the same techniques developed by the FBI to portray wanted or missing persons. In Samuel's case, photos of his wider family were examined for both facial features and common traits to create a composite sketch. From this sketch, Weta began their interpretation. It goes into a program called Mudbox, and with Mudbox, he can go in and actually sculpt in a lot of the finer details. And that's basically how we get the basic shape of Samuel. This is, um, just from the photo shoot. Gino Acevedo oversees the textures, skin colouration. It's almost like projecting the colour images on to the 3D model, baking him into it. Next thing that we need is the displacement. Now, the displacement is all the really fine detail, like all the pores and wrinkles, that we also add on top of the colour. The sub-surface is the stuff that makes our skin look translucent, very realistic, and adds the shine to the skin. But what's the point of all this? How will they improve road safety? We want people to think every day about road safety; and not for it to be something that happens occasionally. The road safety lobby group, Brake, says NZ roads are becoming safer, but driving is still the riskiest thing most of us do on a daily basis. Our target is the road deaths and serious injuries. Until we've reached that goal, we'll keep working at road safety. For the Kingsburys, the moment of truth has arrived. I'm a little bit apprehensive/scared. (GASPS) It's been 17 years since they saw their son Samuel. Wow. It's crazy. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) Isn't it? And here he is at 24. He's got Robert's eyes, and there's your cheekbones. A digital creation remarkably like his brothers and cousins. Holy moly. His eyes. They're Rob's eyes, definitely. His eyes. They're Rob's eyes, definitely. Yeah. Robert's eyes. And eyebrows. > I wasn't ready. Whoa. What do you think? What do you think? Weird. > None of the families knew what to expect. Some were intrigued, others overwhelmed. But for the Kingsburys,... I'm delighted. I'm absolutely delighted with the outcome. It's exciting. Super super special. It's like... Christmas. I just want to touch him now. Oh, that's beautiful and it really brings home that it's not just the person that you lose, it's the potential of that person and everything that they should have had. After the break, leaving a safe life for a war zone fighting Islamic State, but will the freedom fighters be treated as terrorists in their own country? Khamis. Khamis. How are ya? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. This is a long way from Melbourne. This is a long way from Melbourne. It is. Long long way. Welcome. This is a dangerous place. This is a dangerous place. Very dangerous here, but we made it. Yeah. Welcome back. It seems shocking, those stories of Westerners joining Islamic State, but what about those who are leaving home to fight ISIS? George Khamis is an Australian father of two who left his family and job in a call centre for an Iraqi war zone. But it's a risky move that's made him a foreign fighter in the eyes of the Australian government. Now, it doesn't matter whether you are fighting for or against Islamic State, Australia's tough new laws are designed to deter people from travelling abroad to fight at all. So what fate awaits George when he tries to return home? Denham Hitchcock reports. The man in the grey suit is coming home. He's on a long and very uncertain journey to Tullamarine Airport, Melbourne. He's been in Iraq fighting in one of the most brutal struggles on Earth, and he is an Australian. He's done that in the face of tough new terror laws, and if what we are told is true, when he reaches the end of this corridor, he is risking a lifetime behind bars. In a different time, this would be a pleasant drive. But this is northern Iraq, and our car is the only car on the road. The closer we get to the front line, the more we are stopped. The men in charge want to know who we are, want to make sure we know where we're heading and what we're getting ourselves into. This is the last checkpoint. We're almost there. We've travelled halfway around the world to remote northern Iraq. And the decision to come here has not been made lightly. We're on our way to a village which is now an armed outpost ` the front line in the war against Islamic State. We're here to see one of the fighters. Before he came here, he was answering phones at a call centre in Melbourne. His name is George Khamis. Khamis. How are ya? How are ya? Nice to meet you. How are ya? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. This is a long way from Melbourne. This is a long way from Melbourne. It is. Long long way. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you very much. < Many checkpoints to get through here. This is a dangerous place. < Many checkpoints to get through here. This is a dangerous place. I understand. Very dangerous. Yeah. But we made it. Yeah. Home sweet home. Home sweet home. Home sweet home. You share this room with how many men? You share this room with how many men? Six of us. And what are the conditions like? And what are the conditions like? Noisy, from outside when there is shelling, gunfire. < So you're in bed, in your uniform and your gun against the wall. < So you're in bed, in your uniform and your gun against the wall. Correct. In August last year, Islamic State ransacked this town. George is here to prevent another attack. Have you had any military training before you came here? Have you had any military training before you came here? Never. No military background at all. What are you doing here? > It's a short question but it's very hard to answer. George Khamis is proudly Australian. He has lived in Melbourne for 23 years. He is married, has two children. He has a happy life. It is not an easy thing to make bad decision; to come all the way from there to here. Far, far away... in a danger zone. And you can imagine how they felt. George is tortured by his decision. Not only has he left his family to fight Islamic State, but he's breaking Australia's new terror laws to do it. < This is a very different day at the office for you. It's very different ` from call centre to war zone. By coming here, he is risking everything. Are you aware of the new terror laws in Australia regarding foreign fighters? > I've been asked this question if I'm breaking the law. But sometimes even the law itself is not that clear. The law makes it illegal to join this conflict over here, no matter which side you're on. I can tell you, you have broken this law. > For every law, there are exceptions, as you know. Even in the case of a murder sometimes, if it's in self-defence, even the law says you cannot kill, there are exceptions. I've done this for a good cause... to help my people. George was born in Iraq. He hasn't lived here since he was a child, but he still has a deep connection to this place. Your decision to travel, considering the possibilities of what might happen over here, do you see it as a noble one or is it a selfish one? I'll leave that up to the public, to people to judge me. So, what are you looking at there? So, what are you looking at there? I am watching right now Batnaya town, a Syrian Christian town, and I can see the IS flag flying on top of that water tank. What do you think when you're looking at the IS flag and the men that are over there? Thugs. Their actions are beyond imagination. Murderers. Gunfire, rocket-propelled grenades and suicide bombers. This is what George and his region is facing. Islamic State was formed less than three years ago. Since then, their area of control has spread at an alarming rate. They now control an enormous area of Iraq and Syria ` home to tens of millions of people. Right now, this is one of the most dangerous places in Iraq. This is about as close as you'd ever want to get to Islamic State. In fact, it's as close as you can get. Holding this line is beyond critical. Just over there is the town of Batnaya, a Christian town that was overrun, looted and now occupied by Islamic State. Now, for all our modern warfare, right here is pretty simple. There's a trench on this side, a trench on that side and just a few hundred metres of open ground in between. And they say when the attacks come here, they're sudden. There are people watching us right now and planning to hit us with the mortars. Anything at any time can happen. So by the time you hear it, it's almost too late. That's right. You have to drop on the ground immediately. And hope. And hope. And hope. EXPLOSION The intent of Islamic State is to frighten and terrorise, but for a rapidly growing number of foreigners fighting alongside George, it's done the opposite. It's made them angry. Allan Duncan from Scotland and Britain. < Alan, you're a long way from home. Is this really your war? < Alan, you're a long way from home. Is this really your war? Yes. Of course it is. It's everybody's war. We will fight you all together... Allan Duncan is repulsed by what he's seen. Who cuts off the heads of babies? Who massacres women and children? This isn't religion. This is a bunch of psychopathic lunatics killing for the sake of it. They call me Jenny. < Jenny, why is there an issue with your identify? It's for my personal safety. Jenny is possibly the only foreign woman on the front line. I remember seeing a picture on Facebook of a Christian girl that had been, like, raped and mutilated and a cross shoved down her throat. I knew that I couldn't just go on with my normal life. And this is Brett. What is Islamic State to you? To me it's a disease. It's an infection to the world. Brett is on a mission from God. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not fear. I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. Is God on your side? Is God on your side? Yeah. Always. If it takes my life, then that's what it takes. They are all part of Dwekh Nawsha, a small Christian fighting force. In English, their name means 'self-sacrificers'. They take their orders from Emanuel Khoshaba. < How many foreigners have made contact with you wanting to join? Maybe more than 800. < Wow. That's a big number. Yeah. From Australia. From America. From Europe. From Canada. From every part of the world. Even from Asia. But that is nowhere near the number of foreigners who have already joined Islamic State. The worst of them we already know. It is the worship of the one, true God, and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon you, was his final messenger. This message I deliver to you, the people of America. I deliver this message to you, the people of Britain. And I deliver this message to you, especially the people of Australia. Australian voices, Australian faces ` now feared and reviled across the world. I hate to say it, but this is no longer none of our business, and there are Australians fighting them, Australians fighting each other. Khamis from Melbourne. Matthew Gardiner, a Northern Territory politician who left behind his wife and three small children. Ashley Johnston, sadly shot and killed, but fighting for what he believed in. The really frightening thing are the number of Australians fighting for Islamic State. Khaled Sharrouf, Mohamed Elomar ` responsible for unspeakable crimes. And they are just two of them. There are more than 90 Australians marching under that black flag. The number is only growing. And from the rest of the world, an astonishing 1000 are turning up every month. Many will fight to the death. Others will bring their radical ideas and ultra-violence back home. If you saw Khaled Sharrouf or Mohamed Elomar advancing on you > on that front line, what would you do? > on that front line, what would you do? > Kill them before they kill you. There's no other option. GUNFIRE After the break, George now faces his next battle ` getting home to see his family. Will Australia's tough new terror laws prevent him from returning? What did your children tell you? > (SIGHS) When we talk to each other, text, they just ask me, 'When are you coming back?' By now George is a known foreign fighter. He could be on every watchlist around the world. He could be stopped at any airport. MEN TALK OVER RADIO TRANSMISSION George Khamis was planning to stay on the front line against Islamic State for as long as it took. His family is worried sick. They've been pleading with him to return. What did your children tell you? > (SIGHS) When we talk to each other, text, just ask me, 'When are you coming back?' Khamis, you seem very troubled by the decisions you have made ` tortured almost. > Well, it is a difficult decision to go to the front line. Of course, it would be very very difficult for them without a father. So he is heading home to safety after just four weeks. But first, a reluctant goodbye to the people who have nowhere else to go. I wanted to hug them properly, say goodbye properly. I didn't want to leave them. Leaving Iraq is difficult for George. He doesn't know if he will ever be allowed back, and he doesn't know what awaits him at home. Over there is Islamic State, responsible for rapes, beheadings, executions and some of the worst atrocities known to man. Standing here on the top of the headquarters of Dwekh Nawsha, the difference between the two groups couldn't be clearer. Here they're simply trying to protect this town. Over there, Islamic State is on a brutal attack. But Australia's new terror laws do not recognise that difference. All fighters from all sides are treated exactly the same. Khamis is about to test those new laws. He leaves his home town at sunset. The next morning we are still driving heading to the nearest international airport. We're on the same flight. By now, George is a known foreign fighter. He could be on every watch list around the world. He could be stopped at any airport. He clears the first checkpoint. Next stop ` Abu Dhabi. Saw him when he got off the plane. I even saw him go through Immigration, but within minutes he was surrounded by three men and they took him away quickly. And this is not the kind of place where you want to disappear. The hours go by. We don't know who has him or even where he is. Late the next day, we get a call from the front desk. He's in the hotel. He's exhausted. You've been gone almost 12 hours. Tell me what happened? Just issues with the Customs. Just questioning. That's a lot of questioning. What were they asking ya? What were they asking ya? Questions. Lots of questions. 'Where have you been?' 'Family members?' 'Your journey, how long was it?' 'Are you coming back?' Are you starting to realise just how serious the situation is? Unfortunately, it is very serious and I am still concerned. Eight hours later, he's boarding a flight to Melbourne. This will be the real test. The Government has been talking tough, but are they watching? Will he be detained should he be arrested? You'll have a lot going through your mind on that journey home. > You'll have a lot going through your mind on that journey home. > Too much. My mind's overloaded now. The final leg is 15 long hours. He doesn't sleep. Are you worried you'll be arrested? > Anything is possible. You can never run from the law. It's taken four days, but, finally, he's home, and walking down that long corridor to Passport Control. He clears Customs, but on the other side, officers from the counter-terrorism unit are waiting, and he's taken for questioning. It's the news his sister fears the most. You were hoping to see him walk through those gates, weren't ya? You were hoping to see him walk through those gates, weren't ya? Yes. Yes. Three men took him to a back room. I don't know where he is. Three men took him to a back room. I don't know where he is. (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) When is a man with a gun a freedom fighter and when is he a terrorist? > The one who is supporting and fighting for Islamic State, there is no doubt. I mean, he is a terrorist. The one who's fighting against them, I would say in a defensive position against them, he's a freedom fighter, no doubt. Our foreign fighter laws are supposed to be tough, but George is, for now, a free man. The authorities obviously have their reasons. The unavoidable question ` what message does this send? And he got home to his two kids. After the break, life on the road with 11 kids! You can see in your kids' faces, every new town you go to, it's just the excitement in their eyes. Spending time with the kids, that's what it's all about for us. What's the scariest thing that's actually happened on the road? Oh, we see a lot of snakes. > Especially brown snakes. A lot of them. I've stopped Dad from walking on three snakes before. Hello again. Don't we all worry about whether we're spending enough time with the kids? Ever thought about throwing it all in, hitting the road and travelling off into the sunset? Well, 10 years ago, that's what Peter and Allison Cairns did. But if you think that's radical, try this. They're doing it in a supersized bus with their 11 kids; raising them, their spirits and a lot of eyebrows on an endless holiday around Australia. Here's Kerri-Anne Kennerley. We can play 'I Spy' again. Here's a puzzler. Is it possible to turn your back on absolutely everything and still have it all? And more importantly, if you abandon city life, formal schooling and farewell friends and a fixed address, are you doing the very best for your kids? Your 11 kids. Well, we want them to grow up to be very good Australians. And independent. And independent. And to be very well-educated Australians. And they're getting educated on life skills. For the Cairns family, a big old bus has carried the family and a menagerie of hangers-on across and around Australia for the past 10 years. Home is the horizon. You can see in your kids' faces, every new town you go to, and there's just the excitement in their eyes. Spending time with the kids ` that's what it's all about for us. Well, you'd better introduce me. Well, you'd better introduce me. Well, we'll start with the oldest. This is our oldest daughter Madison. Bodine over here. Marina. Nadine here. Hello, Nadine. Keanna. There we go. That's our first boy, Peter. Then we've got Rod. Uh, where's Bono. Come on, Bono. This is Laura, and Pajara. One, two, three, four, five... There's 13 of you! 13. That's right. Yep. The feet began to itch in 2004. Peter and Allison were living on the north coast of New South Wales with their five young daughters, building their dream home and Peter's air-conditioning repair business. But what they imagined would be the perfect family life, was anything but. We used to go on drives. Chuck the kids in the car on the weekend and go for a drive, and we'd get 100 K's to 150 K's out of town and we'd just want to keep going. We just couldn't, cos we were tied down to everything back at home. Yeah. Cos you're in your normal household lifestyle. You have to go back. Have to go back to work. Did you find that whole life really suffocating? Yes. Suffocating. Overwhelming. We wanted a life. Yes. Suffocating. Overwhelming. We wanted a life. Yeah. We wanted a life... with our kids. We wanted to be selfish. Sorry. Peter's pretty handy. He bought an old 10-wheel coach and set about turning it into the family home. They replaced the bus seats with bunks, cashed in their suburban life and hit the highway. Their sixth child, Peter, was just two days' old. Explain your excitement. Oh, there is no explanation. Oh, there is no explanation. You're on cloud nine. We had to learn a lot of things. We'd never been camping before that. What's the scariest thing that's actually happened on the road? Oh, we see a lot of snakes. > Oh, we see a lot of snakes. > Especially brown snakes. A lot of them. I've stopped Dad from walking on three snakes before. We kinda have, like, two separate families. The older five and the younger six. And the younger six don't know any different. They've never lived in a house. You'd have to say they're more... You'd have to say they're more... ...out there. You'd have to say they're more... ...out there. More out there. They're different to how the girls were when they were younger before we left. Knock, knock. Is this the basement? Madison, how are you? Madison, how are you? I'm good. Can I come in? Can I come in? Yeah, sure. But I mean can I come in? 'This is Madison's hideaway. It's the old baggage compartment that she shares with sister Keanna.' Does she snore? Does she snore? (LAUGHS) Sometimes. Does she snore? (LAUGHS) Sometimes. Does she? Dishwasher, kitchen sink, parents' retreat, even a spa. It's all here. This is Mum and Dad's room? This is Mum and Dad's room? Yep. Without being too nosey, how many children have been conceived on the bus? Uh... Uh... Five? Five. One in Darwin, one in Cairns. There's more. Kalgoorlie and then back on the Gold Coast. It was boring down on the Nullarbor one night. Do you want to have as many children as your mum and dad have? > Do you want to have as many children as your mum and dad have? > (GIGGLES) You could think about that. > Kids, come on. School. # You went to school to learn, girl, # things you never, never knew before. # I before E except after C, # and why two plus two makes four. # So what colour are you going to paint the bats? Can all the kids read and write and do arithmetic? Can all the kids read and write and do arithmetic? Yes. Well, we call it road schooling. We purchase books. So we still buy books, and they sit down and do a couple of hours in the morning. And then around lunchtime we take off and go exploring, and then when we come back at night-time, they sit down and do a little bit more of their journal writing. They're writing a journal every day. Can we take the bottom one off? Can we take the bottom one off? Nah. Take this one off the side first. As parents, do you worry that the kids are going to go into a world without that formal education that you enjoyed? that you enjoyed? It used to worry me a lot. Yeah. We were sceptical of ourselves. We did put them in school up in Darwin for a while. And the teachers actually said they were really advanced. What does the Education Department say about this? Um, we had the Education Department ring us up and threaten us with... I'm pretty sure it was a $10,000 fine per child per day if they weren't at school. Well, I said, 'We'll be bankrupt in the first week. We'll lose everything we have.' Watch the baby. 'After two weeks we will be absolutely totally broke. 'We'll have to sell all the clothes off our back as well to pay you. 'And the third week, I don't know what you're going to do then.' There you go. They packed up, moved on and so did that state's education department. KIDS SCREAM So if you could speak to the top of the education department in every state, what would you ask for? To be able to register as a home schooler without having a fixed address. Because they have no fixed address, they can't register their kids for home schooling, but their road schooling seems to be working. The kids are bright and polite and a little old-fashioned. Do you keep up with any of the latest music online? Do you keep up with any of the latest music online? No. I never go online. < Really? I don't even know what it is. I don't even know what it is. I don't even know what the heck it does. Carpet pythons love to eat birds. Do you understand why some kids your age are actually addicted to the internet? Yeah. They always have an iPhone in their face. At school they've got iPads at some schools now. I wouldn't like that. No? Why? No? Why? I just don't like sitting on iPads all day. Hurts your eyes. Hurts your eyes. Yeah. I'd rather read books. PARROT BARKS As frugal as they are, running a family this big and a lifestyle this carefree requires serious money. Cable ties and duct tape. That's better. I can pull up in just about any town in Australia and get a job. And not just doing air conditioning and refrigeration. It could be plumbing. It could be cleaning a toilet. People will be curious to know if you're on welfare. We have been in and out. People think we're on this endless paid holiday. Well, I think it's mainly the kids. Because we've got a large family, thinking we had those kids` 'Oh, are you going to have more kids to get more money?' We've had that said to us. We've had that said to us. Yeah. We get that a lot. People have actually said that to you? Yeah, we'll get it today, we'll get it tomorrow, we'll get it next year. Whether we're in a house or not, we would still get what they get. How do you respond? Go and have 11 kids and see how you go. So where is the next big adventure? A camel trek. Yeah. They want to walk from Alice Springs to the west coast of Australia. Would you ever change your life again to what it was? Would you ever change your life again to what it was? No. Definitely no. You could give us a mansion in Surfers Paradise with a Mercedes up the driveway... Not interested. I'd rather be in the middle of nowhere. Well, there's a lot to admire there, isn't there? Didn't Allison look amazing for 11 children? That's our show for tonight. Do join us on Facebook and Twitter, Sunday TVNZ. Thanks for joining us. Ka kite i a koe, a tera wiki. See you next week. Pomarie.