Tonight ` He was just being pretty much brutal. They owe money, but that's not what they're afraid of. Did he raise his voice? He raised his voice so I couldn't get a word in. Have these debt collectors gone too far? Plus, how well do some of our biggest retailers know your rights? We go undercover to find out. They should know better than this. And it's one of the more bizarre stories we've covered. We have peace in our time! With an excuse to end all excuses. My name's Gordon Harcourt. I'm a reporter with TVNZ Fair Go. And we're at number nine on the countdown to the dumbest fee. Welcome to Fair Go. Debt collectors. Job has to be done, but along with parking wardens and repo men, it's fair to say not a popular bunch of guys. So it doesn't help the profession when, if their website's anything to go by, a bunch of debt collectors appear to have gone rogue. Here's Hannah. This is a movie ` Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, starring football thug Vinnie Jones about gangs, lowlifes and enforcers. And this is a website for District Collections, a debt collection agency. COCKNEY ACCENT: To be fair, we added the Cockney voice-overs. We were alerted to the site by David Shearer. < The website - pretty extraordinary stuff? Yeah, look, I saw it, and I thought, 'This doesn't belong in NZ.' This is about intimidation, standover tactics. It's using the image of Vinnie Jones. Vinnie Jones is famous for beating up somebody with a car door. This is saying, 'Basically, this is what's going to happen to you if you don't pay up,' and I think that's disgraceful. It's bound to intimidate a debtor when he sees a face like Vinnie's. You want me to draw you a picture? Fear and shame means we've hidden this woman's identity. 'Jenny' needed legal advice after a surprise visit from District Collections. VOICE DISGUISED: He raised his voice so I couldn't get a word in. He didn't want to hear what I had to say. Couldn't get a point across to him, I couldn't discuss anything with him. He was just being.. pretty much brutal. He, um, told me he was a bailiff from the court, and he said that if I didn't sign the papers that he had right then and there, he would take me for everything I own. I started crying, and I was trembling. All I could think of was, 'What are my kids going to sleep on?' You know, 'What are they going to sit on?' That's when I did sign. I signed everything. I can't even remember what I signed. At that point I just wanted him away from my children and away from my house. What Jenny signed was a direct debit form, a privacy waiver giving access to her personal info and a benefit-redirection form, which would still need WINZ approval. They seem to target a town, whether it be Whanganui or Gisborne or Hastings, and they spend time there. They're just basically doing a blitz and will go out same patter, the same tactics in each place. We found this out because we broadcast from Whanganui to the other community law centres, 'Are you getting anything from these guys?' And there was a flood of emails saying, 'Yep. Lots.' So it's countrywide. Hamish says the debtors are so frightened they agree to things they shouldn't. Often the direct debit form will ask for more money than these debtors can possibly afford. Like Tessa here, who was also visited by District Collections. And what did they say to you? VOICE DISGUISED: That I had a couple of debts with these two companies and I needed to pay $33 a week. So he came up with that figure? Mm-hm. Can you afford to pay that sort of money back? No, I knew I couldn't. Tessa didn't have the money in her bank, so why sign up to pay? I felt pressured into signing those forms, and if I didn't sign the forms, I was going to court. Yeah, that's pretty much what he said. I felt intimidated by him, and I just couldn't wait for him to leave. Both women say it was only after they'd signed the paperwork that they were told these were debt collectors. But District Collections says they do explain who they are and what the debt is and that unpaid debts could result in legal action or court. They agree they don't leave copies of any signed paperwork, but say that would be supplied on request. We should say here that both Jenny and Tessa didn't owe huge sums. Both also say their conversations with the debt collectors got a bit nasty. That is when he asked me what income I had, and I says, 'Sole parent benefit,' and then he said, 'Well, then, didn't you make some bad choices?' And I was like, 'I don't think you can say that to me, 'considering I don't think my children are bad choices.' No one ever thinks their children are bad choices. Tessa says she tried to negotiate with the debt collector, but eventually... After I told him I was going to get referred to someone else, he texted me back, saying, 'This is coming from someone who told me to "get <BLEEP>ed" right from the beginning.' What did you think of him using that language and that tone? I broke down. I broke down. Because it was like now he was blaming me for the stuff that I hadn't even done. I mean, it was already stressful with the debt, and then that on top, saying that I said that. I didn't say that. I wouldn't say that. District Collections deny saying that Jenny made bad choices in being a sole parent. But Tessa's text message ` well, here it is ` supplied by District Collections. In other conversations they say they did try strenuously to get her to seek budget advice. There will be some of you, though, who will be thinking, 'Fair dues. You don't pay your debts, you get what's coming.' But really? Well, I knew I had debts there. I knew they weren't going away. Most people who have a debt want to pay it off, but they want to pay it off in terms that's not going to throw them into penury. Oh, I'd be over the moon if I could get out of debt, even if I could start paying it at $10 a week. When someone wants to pay something and they're not allowed to because its not enough, you know, I just think anything towards the debt is going to get it down. These sorts of standover tactics push vulnerable people further over the edge. They put extraordinary pressures on kids and on families, and all we have is a mess at the end, rather than a way in which these people often want to get out of a hole that they get themselves into. And finally, if you're wondering about this website and all those pesky copyright issues, well, over the weekend, Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels change to... tulips, daisies and a field of poppies. Gosh, the flowers give it quite a different feel, don't they? So District Collections tell us they're working to sort out copyright issues with the website. That's for the movie, not the flowers. They've been in business 20 years and have processed over 80,000 debt files. They say their staff are licensed and vetted. and they deal with cases with integrity and honesty. District Collections say they work closely with government and community agencies. They encourage people to seek budget advice to try and get a payment arrangement that works. They also say their collectors suffer abuse and aggression. So if you do owe money, how do you stop getting in the sort of situation we saw in Hannah's story? What to do... if the debt collectors... come a-knocking. First of all, ask for identification. And first up so you know who these people are. Next, ask for evidence of the debt ` paperwork. Do you actually owe the money? Have extra charges been added? And if it's older than six years, you generally don't have to pay it. Importantly... Don't enter into any agreement. Say, 'I need to go and get advice about this.' So before you sign anything, you can get advice and help from your local community law office or Citizens Advice Bureau or the budget advice networks. Work out what you can afford, work out how big the debt is, and, look, if the debts are too big, then there are other ways to manage that. 'Law centres, CABs and budget advisors can liaise with the debt collectors 'to work out a repayment schedule. It may even be possible to negotiate a break from repayments 'in hardship cases.' I found most creditors pretty reasonable, most of them. They're quite prepared to say, 'OK, you can only afford $10, $15 a week, that's fine.' Good advice. The worst thing you can do is hope a debt will go away. Engage with the creditor. Start paying something. Yes. Now, what's the worst excuse you've ever given for getting out of something? Gordon? Quite a bad one coming up. Mm, and our story tonight has a doozy excuse too. So, Chris, this is where your money has been sitting. (LAUGHS) Plus, how dumb is this fee? Is it there to pay for something? Is it there to put you off? Is it there to punish you? And we're undercover to see what the big brands know about your rights when returning faulty goods. It's what consumers deal with daily when they try and take things back. MAN: The difference between a good team and a bad team is probably about 3% statistically. But what makes up that 3%, I fundamentally believe it's having a group of people that believe in something. I select on character and I believe if they've got character they're very, very coachable. MAN 2: Pressure can be a friend or a foe and we do a lot of work on understanding that it becomes your friend because you know that whenever you feel it, you're in that space where great things happen. VOICEOVER: For an All Blacks perspective on your business, watch our videos online. 1 Welcome back. 'The dog ate my homework'. I actually did tell my fourth form maths teacher that many many years ago, and it was complete rubbish. As excuses go, it's just not very good. Well, this story's got a better ` or worse ` one. It was the office lady's fault. Honestly. Gigantic. Goldfish in his garden pond, that is. No, no, the cats are scared of them. A simple stroll to the bank with Chris Moriarty is quite an experience. So we'll go up to the bank and get some statements. Yeah. Chris' life has been very well lived. Well, yes, it's had adventures. We've had a few gangsters along the way. I've swept floors, I've cleaned toilets, I've washed dishes. He can tell tales of being on stage with Nureyev and Pavarotti, of organising parties for... Elton John, Mick Jagger, Jimmy Cliff, Liza Minnelli, Frank Sinatra, KD Lang, Portishead, Metallica, AC/DC. And Lange ` David Lange was my lawyer. David Lange? Yes. That's quite a roll call, Chris. Well, I could drop other names. (LAUGHS) Oh well, off you go, then. His trip to the bank involves no one famous, but a truly bizarre story. He's in there getting a bank statement, and that bank statement is going to tell quite a story. We got it! We have peace in our time! Well, a bank statement, actually. What does this show? Motorcity ` $2000. Motorcity is a car yard in Great North Road, Auckland. Have you bought a car at Motorcity, Chris? No. So why does this bank statement say that they've got $2000 of your money? My EFTPOS card was stolen three months ago and this $2000 was used as a deposit on a car. But not by you? > No. Now, the car did not leave the car yard; the car has not been used. The money is just sitting there in a drawer. Yes, this car yard had his money and they wouldn't give it back. The BNZ financial crime people contacted them. So did Police, several times, but the money wasn't returned. This is ridiculous. This is your money, isn't it? This is my money, and he should give it back. I mean, what's two grand to a car dealer? Besides it's not his! So we took him to Motorcity on Auckland's inner city car strip. So, Chris, this is where your money appears to be sitting. (LAUGHS) What do you make of it? Well, I'm really surprised. He's got a good name, he's got a high profile. What is this gutter mentality for $2000? So I called to ask. My name's Gordon Harcourt. I'm a reporter with TVNZ Fair Go. I'm actually over the road from the yard right now. I'm with a bloke called Chris Moriarty. 'And I repeated Chris' story.' Does this ring a bell to you? I believe the Police and the BNZ have been in touch with the company about it. 'I was talking to one of two blokes named to me by the BNZ.' Oh, that must have been the bloke sitting at the computer in the corner, cos he's` he's got up and moved, hasn't he? 'He passed me to someone else.' Yeah, hello, <BLEEP>, Gordon Harcourt, TVNZ Fair Go. And I'm just trying to figure out why the money hasn't been returned to Mr Moriarty. (LAUGHS) Oh, well, that's marvellous. Good on you. Thank you very much, and Mr Moriarty will be thrilled. It's just a little bit puzzling that it's taken one phone call from me when the Police and the BNZ have been trying to get it back for months, I believe. Well, that's marvellous. It's very good news, and I'm very glad that we've been able to sort this out so quickly. Off you go, then. How extraordinary! It would be really interesting... He said the office lady fielded all the calls? Yes, the office lady's to blame. Yes. So Chris went in to get his money. Amazing. Amazing. One phone call. It was an oversight. The message hadn't been passed on from the administration person, so a completely innocent mistake, clearly (!) A few minutes later Chris emerged, triumphant. We have a result! God, that was tense. > Really? Bloody hell. Yeah, I've been in some tight situations, but that was tense. And of course they all denied everything. Oh yeah, nobody knew anything, nobody. No, no, no. But we've got it back. Thank you very much, Fair Go. My pleasure, Chris. It really has been. Thank you. Thank you. Can we go for a sticky bun now? (LAUGHS) Actually, we did have a sticky bun. It was delicious. You earned it. Motorcity accepts there was an error of judgment ` they failed to act quickly enough, and they apologise. They say they had no intention of deliberately withholding the money. They say it's a family business, and their energy is on the director, who is ill, and if Chris had contacted them directly, they would have paid him. The BNZ and Police tell us there were several phone calls and emails with Motorcity about returning Chris's money. None of them were with someone fitting the description of office lady. Now, news on a story we covered last year. Flexibuy sold furniture and other goods door to door, but the goods had a bad habit of not showing up. We tracked the company to an Auckland apartment. The boss, Vikram Mehta, wasn't there, but yesterday he did appear... in court. He's been arrested on fraud and unfair conduct charges following a Commerce Commission investigation. Time now to talk dumb charges, and this week we're at number nine on the countdown to the dumbest, as voted by you. And tonight's charge is certainly something to whine about. Here's Garth. Number nine in our top 10 dumb charges this week comes from a brush with the border patrol, the Ministry for Primary Industries. Yvonne says: The MPI has requested a fee of $54.63 to return a mulled wine spice sachet to England. It arrived here in an envelope with card. It is the size of a teabag and weighs 30g. It doesn't pass biosecurity requirements, hence the return. More herbs than spices in this one. We don't want to whine about biosecurity. It's a serious matter. But what is with that charge? Is it there to pay for something? Is it there to put you off? Is it there to punish you? We put that to the Ministry for Primary Industries, who began by pointing out the introduction of a foreign pest or disease via international mail could have a devastating impact on NZ. MPI says it intercepted the mulled-wine sachet because it could have been contaminated or because it contained risky organic materials, perhaps a prescribed spice like cinnamon, pepper or paprika, which could harbour salmonella. So no mulled wine for birthday tea, but why the hefty fee? MPI says Yvonne had the option of having the sachet treated to remove any contaminants or sending the item for destruction at no cost, or having it reshipped to the sender. For reshipping, MPI charges standard handling fee of $20 to recover costs like repackaging. The rest is the price of a courier ` $35, in this case, which, for a 30g sachet, still seems steep, especially for something no one in their right mind is likely to request. Defending our borders and businesses from pests ` that's one thing. But asking 55 bucks to return a teabag of spices to someone? Sounds like a pretty dumb charge to me. Does seem a bit steep, but we cannot underestimate the very important job they do at MPI. Absolutely not. Keep your suggestions coming. We're having a lot of fun reading them. Contact us on Facebook, email us at fairgo@tvnz.co.nz or write to us ` Private Bag 92038, Auckland 1142. Next week it's number eight. Yes. Now, what are your rights when it comes to returning faulty products? It might well be our most regular complaint. Tonight we put some of the leading retailers under the microscope. She doesn't have to ring the manufacturer or do anything. So that information's completely wrong. 1 Welcome back. Your flash gadget breaks down, you take it back. Your flash gadget breaks down again, you take it back again. Your flash gadget... You know the rest. What's the story? What are your rights here? We went undercover in some big retailers to test what they told us. We put a common enough question to people out on the street. When are you entitled to a replacement or a refund if you have a faulty product? I believe it's seven days. You have the right to return it within 12 months. Well, it depends on what the item is. It would depends on the actual goods. Some things last longer than others, so it's like how long is a piece of string? Maybe the average person on the street doesn't have all the answers, but surely these guys will know. That's right. We put six of our big name electronic retailers to the test to see how familiar they are with your rights. I think the retailers should know the law. It is not difficult law. You know Sue Chetwin from Consumer NZ. She's very familiar with this issue too. OK, so let's clarify ` you buy something, it starts playing up. What can you do? To start with, you've got two options ` claim under the warranty or the Consumer Guarantees Act, the CGA. Pretty much doesn't matter what it says in the warranty. That's just an added bonus. You've got rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act, which will generally be better than anything that's in the warranty. OK, so what are those rights? You buy something, then it should be of acceptable quality. Basically it has to last for a decent amount of time, do what it's meant to do and not have any defects. If it's faulty, then you can take it back to the retailer or the manufacturer. If the fault is minor, then they can choose to repair it, replace it or refund it for you. If the fault is substantial, then you choose ` replacement or refund. Straight away, no messing about. Well, look, I think people probably know that they've got rights, they just don't know exactly what those rights are. And the unfortunate thing is you often find many retailers mislead consumers as to their rights and people believe what they're told. And certainly the responses we got from some of our big name retailers are a mixed bag. We approached staff with a scenario about a laptop that's been repaired three times for the same serious fault and asked what they'd do in the same situation. Her relationship is with the retailer, and she doesn't have to ring the manufacturer or do anything, so that information is completely wrong. That depends on how bad the fault is, if it's serious. She's entitled to decide what she wants, and her money back is one of those options. This is one that often confuses you, but the product doesn't have to be under warranty for you to claim under the CGA. Sue wasn't surprised that some of the information we got from the stores was lacking. Consumer NZ do regular mystery shops and say shoppers are often misled about their rights. They should know better than this, but, um, you know, it's what consumers deal with daily, really, when they try and take things back. We've been in touch with all of the retailers who featured in this story. Some of them were keen to point out that their staff would have followed different procedures if it hadn't been dealing with a hypothetical situation. That's fair enough. They all give their staff training on consumer law, which is good, but we were a bit surprised that during several of the discussions, the CGA wasn't even mentioned. That's not to say that some of the sales assistants didn't impress us. And credit to this Harvey Norman employee who pretty much nailed it. And he also made this fair observation. And that's true. There's often debate about what is and isn't a substantial fault. But we think retailers could be more impressive with their knowledge of consumer law. But you can help yourself too. Check out our website. We've got some links with some good info about your rights when something goes wrong. That's almost the show, but a quick reminder about the amazing prizes on offer for the school ad awards, thanks to Canon. The winning school will get $7000 worth of cleverness, including this massive smart board and two Canon EOS 100D cameras, an accessory pack and a Canon pixma printer. On top of all that there is $2000 in cash for the school. That makes the first prize worth more than $11,000. The second-placed school gets the latest Canon video camera and 500 cash, third-place school will also receive the latest Canon video camera. That makes this year's total prize package worth over $25,000. Remember, 30 seconds maximum, and it must feature an animal ` live, toy, animated, any sort of animal you like. The deadline is 23rd September. That's a Wednesday. All entries are submitted online. We've got all the information you need on our website. So that's the show, but we will be on Facebook for the next half hour to answer your questions. Our programme is all about your problems, your thoughts, so please do contact us. We're on Facebook... email us... write to us... Next week ` broken promises. They were sold breathtaking views. How it can be so inhumane and spoil everyone's future. < Do you feel let down? Oh, in every way possible. What could possibly have gone so wrong? I mean, somebody's just blatantly breached their undertaking and promise. That's next week. Goodnight.