I've been called a paedophile. And it caused an uproar. 52-year-old woman still breastfeeds 6-year-old daughter. I can't help feel that this daughter is being exploited. Does mother really know best? People can say whatever they like. I know what I'm doing as a mother. I've raised three beautiful, healthy, intelligent, well-adjusted children and that's all that matters to me. Able 2015 Hello. I'm Leila McKinnon. Welcome to Inside Story. 52-year-old Maha Al Musa calls it natural motherhood but, to many, just the thought of breastfeeding a school-age child is totally unnatural. And that's just the beginning. Maha's also passionately for home births and vehemently against vaccinations. While she says society's lost touch with nature, her critics think she's lost touch with reality. (LIVELY MUSIC) # I want candy. # Bitter? I've been called a paedophile. Now, where does that come from? She really is setting the cause of breastfeeding back in Australia. My heart goes out to people who criticise me and I respect people's criticism. This isn't about breastfeeding children. This is about the feminine. This is about the attack and disrespect of the feminine and of children. I can't help feel that this daughter is being exploited for her mother's own vanity and purposes. It's a natural thing, isn't it, Minnie, for you? You don't analyse it. You don't even really think too much about it. It's a feeling that you get. I'm Maha Al Musa. I'm 52 and I live in Byron Bay. I've got three beautiful children and this is my story about childbirth and mothering as nature intended. So I'm a doula, which is a birth assistant, and I'm a childbirth educator and I teach women how to prepare their body to give birth and, once they've had their baby, how to follow their hearts and instincts. (SPEAKS FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Welcome to the sacred circle. Women want this knowledge, women need this knowledge and women are asking for this knowledge. I'm just interested in what sparked your interest to come today. That is one of the reasons why I'm standing up and speaking this, because I believe, on a larger scale, that this will raise the vibration of this planet into a sense of peacefulness and love. Boob. Booby. I've been called mentally unstable, I've been called psychologically damaged, I've been called much worse than that. But people can say whatever they like. I know what I'm doing as a mother. I've raised three beautiful, healthy, intelligent, well-adjusted children and that's all that matters to me. I wanna have a drink of that. Mum, she knows everything about everything in the belly dancing and birth world and everything. It's what she loves to do. She's had three kids. We've grown up to be amazing children, so it's awesome. I was born in Kuwait City in 1962 and I came to Australia with my dad and my brother in 1964 and we settled in Victoria. I was actually in boarding school at Ballarat Girls' Grammar when I was four years of age. My father was very, very strict and very disciplinary and I often say, for me, not having had my mother, I've had to rely on myself in so many ways. And that, I think, created a sense of independence for me. There's also a sort of gypsy nature about me as well. When I was pregnant with Kailash I really felt the need and that's what my work is about, is bringing an awareness, shining a light on the spirituality of birth from the feminine perspective. You would have seen that the front cover of 'Time' magazine... There was a picture of a woman standing on front of the 'Time' magazine and I made a comment online, on a news commentary, and I said, "That's wonderful. My daughter's 3.5, I'm 48, I'm still breastfeeding her." And then suddenly I got called to, you know, come and speak to the media. And that's when it started. Maha Al Musa is still breastfeeding her 3.5-year-old daughter. 52-year-old woman still breastfeeds 6-year-old daughter. Says her milk tastes like candy canes. (NEWS REPORTER SPEAKS FOREIGN LANGUAGE) It's quite biologically normal. It may not be common. It is unusual but it is normal. I think most people would say by six it is unnecessary, it's unhelpful, and that this poor girl is probably going to face ridicule as she grows up because of the decisions that her parents have made on her behalf. You had a long day, didn't you, running around? How does it feel for you being six and drinking your mummy's milk? Hm. It feels...natural. It is time that we stopped shaming women and shaming children for having their needs met in this way. It's almost as though she's blaming this on her daughter, and don't judge us, because you're blaming a six-year-old. Well, I...I'm sorry, no. No-one is blaming this six-year-old daughter. It's the mother that has to be responsible for that. She's putting herself out there, she's copping a lot of flak. I mean, I've read some terrible, horrible things that have been said about her. From the messages that I've received, I would have to say women have been the most vicious and most attacking. When I read the comments, Maha says, "Oh, listen, darling. "People are entitled to their opinion." Whereas I read them and go, "Grrr! I want to just rip that guy's throat out." Coming up on Inside Story... What we're seeing in hospital systems. We are seeing people who believe they are the experts and that "I will do this to you." Not surprisingly, natural motherhood also means natural birthing - no hospitals, no doctors and certainly no caesareans. Maha was 46 when Aminah was born, at home, surrounded by friends and family. # Well good morning everyone. # You know Byron Bay was the heart of home birth for a very long time. As soon as I started to read the stories of birthing at home, birthing with nature, birthing as nature intended, that is what I wanted. I knew that is how I wanted to give birth. It was a beautiful spring day in October and I just walked around the beautiful property, stopping to move through what I call expansions of birth, and then I birthed Aminah into the water. I did a lotus birth, a full lotus birth, where we allowed the cord to do its pulsing. And then I got up after 45 minutes and I birthed the placenta, and then whatever was left of blood in the placenta was just drained out through a colander, and then that was salted and wrapped and left with her. So after about three days, the placenta and the cord separated, so by that time the cord is dry and it just naturally separates, so we didn't actually cut the cord. It just dried and dropped off. It would be wonderful if everybody could have an uncomplicated, fairly easy labour, not require any medications, not require any assistance, no intervention. I'd love that if that was everybody's experience. But in the days where that was all that was available, we know that lots of babies died. We also know that lots of mothers died. So these days we would usually be a bit more proactive. Anything can rise up in a woman when she gives birth. So the reason that a woman can get stuck in labour, the baby can get stuck in the process, can be something that is a mystery. We don't know everything so whether we choose hospital or home, things can go wrong either way. All that matters is the safety of the mum and baby, and conventional medicine tells us that lotus births are potentially dangerous. I just don't know why you would incur that risk. What are we seeing in hospital systems? What we're seeing is so much interference. We are seeing such a disrespect of the feminine. We are seeing people out there who believe they are the experts and that I will do this to you. And then out comes the scalpel, out comes the knife. Women are being cut. Women are not only being cut physically to birth their babies, women are being cut, modified, trimmed, in her own story of the feminine. I think that if we create environments that support women, that love women and care for women in birth, we won't see such a rise in caesarean sections. Birth is about patience. Birth is fluid, flowing. It's an organic, living art. I've actually been in caesarean sections where the whole baby, complete with amniotic fluid and the whole sac, has been able to be lifted out as one entire thing. It's like magic. And then you have to actually sort of break open the sac, and this wonderful, warm, sleepy baby just sort of moves. It's like the ultimate water birth, if you like. You and Alex got your arms around each other? No, we're just putting our hands in our pockets. I'm not saying that everybody needs to follow in my path or in my footsteps but what I'm saying is as a healthy 52-year-old who birthed at 46 a beautiful girl at home, in the water, fully conscious, doorways opened to me that I didn't realised existed. Mummy had to park all the way over there today, Min. There's a lot of people in Maha's camp that really shame women that didn't give birth the natural way. I call it Motherhood Inc, and breastfeeding is really at the core of it, and we actually see a lot of women being shamed because they can't breastfeed. Lots of women struggle with it. They have the wrong birth, meaning that they have the caesarean or that they had pain-relieving drugs during labour. Lots of women are shamed for this. God forbid you use a dummy or a bottle. It's crazy and it is really is about these mothers seeking to justify their existence in how good they're ticking these certain boxes. Coming up on Inside Story... I've had people say to me, "You bitch. You haven't vaccinated. How dare you not vaccinate?" This is a higher-risk area than many Third World countries. They're acting as part of the germ's team if they're not vaccinated. Stop moping. The lad's gone. Oh. Yeah. (SIGHS) INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS Ooh. Sorry. Oh. (SIGHS) Grandpa? Are you there? Sorry. Grandpa? CELL PHONE BUZZES, CHIMES INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS You've sent it. (CHUCKLES) (CHUCKLES) Whacko. CELL PHONE BUZZES, CHIMES Whether it's simple tips or tricky tech solutions, Vodafone Ninjas are here to help. Maha Al Musa's breastfeeding ideas have been called disgusting, selfish and just plain weird. But her views on vaccination are something else again. That's when her critics really let fly. She's ignorant, dangerous and much, much worse. In general, this area is quite non-judgmental and quite open-minded, and that's why I love being here. Byron Bay's always looked at as alternate, hippie, and everybody's all in la-la land, but it's not like that at all. These are very Japanese-style. You have choice. You can take an alternate, healthy, natural approach to your lifestyle, or you can not. The reason I am challenged by vaccination is the level of poison that is in vaccination. It's the ingredients that's in vaccination. Unfortunately, in that part of Australia there is a very high concentration of people that shun vaccination, and that is so dangerous. Unfortunately, we have seen a very high toll as a result of those - young babies dying of diseases like whooping cough, diseases that we should have never seen back in Australia in the 21st century. When Kailash was a baby and I said, "What ingredients are in the vaccinations?" the doctor didn't know. He didn't have the list of ingredients. We say to pregnant women, "Don't eat cheese. Don't eat raw fish. Don't go near cat litter." OK? We're very vigilant about what we're putting in our bodies and what we're touching and what we're doing when we're pregnant. So I researched and I researched and I did my reading and I looked into what are the ingredients, and when I read the list of ingredients I was challenged by that. Well, there's the old saying that the dose makes the poison. Anything in life can kill you, depending on the dose of it. You drink too much water and it can kill you. So the vaccines are amongst the most rigorously tested and monitored drugs that there are, and tens of millions of children worldwide have been vaccinated with no adverse effects. In 2012, early 2012, my daughters both contracted whooping cough, and it was awful. My eldest daughter coped with it pretty well, because she was that bit older, but my youngest daughter didn't. We had situations of her turning blue, eyes rolling, very shallow breathing. They couldn't keep anything down because the force of the cough is so strong, it just makes you vomit. In just five months there have been more than 2,700 cases of whooping cough in New South Wales. Earlier this year, the disease claimed the life of four-week-old Perth boy Riley Hughes. I know of at least 50 parents that have lost their babies to whooping cough. Sometimes the parents didn't know that they were living in an area of low vaccination. They didn't realise that this is a higher-risk area than just about anywhere else in Australia, and higher-risk than many Third World countries. They're acting as part of a team if they're vaccinated. They're acting as part of the enemy's team, the germ's team, if they're not vaccinated. I'd really like to live in a community where new little babies are born and are safe. Some children should not be vaccinated. The levels of poisons are in vaccination - it's a big issue. I've already been told, you know, I've got to be careful. People get killed for this. I'm sure that there's a lot of vitriol that's directed at her, and I don't condone that. I would also say from my own experience of talking publicly on these issues that probably her fiercest supporters also get extremely angry and vitriolic towards people who disagree with them. I've received anti-vaccination mail in the post. I've received hateful phone calls. I've even had my daughter approached by a stranger in the supermarket who laughed at her when she asked if she was my daughter. I've had people say to me, "You bitch. You haven't vaccinated. How dare you not vaccinate?" and all that kind of stuff. Did you speak to your peers, like did you speak to other new mums? I just want people to have the right information. I don't send hate mail. I don't make hate phone calls. I don't approach other people's children as a stranger in a supermarket. I'm just a mum who's passionate about vaccination. There's an awful lot of misinformation on the internet, and it's purposeful. Maha Al Musa is unconventional controversial, to put it mildly. She's also undaunted. Facing such opposition, many would have thrown in the towel years ago. You can bet, as far as Maha's concerned, that's never going to happen. I've always been a seeker of truth. I've always been looking for - what is the meaning of life? What is this all about? The analysis and the way that people have created out of this very normal, natural thing this mountain... ..that to me doesn't make sense. (SINGS) We seem to have this mixed-up idea that if we sever the connection that child will grow up. But actually that's not what happens. It's quite the reverse. A child when it is comforted, when it feels safe, when it is engaged in that process of nurturing and comfort, safety and love, that is how a child becomes independent. A child doesn't become independent by pushing them away. I breastfeed my daughter Aminah because I'm still producing milk, she asks to be fed and I tend to her needs. If you choose to bottle-feed and that's what works for you, I respect you for that because motherhood is bloody hard. It's beautiful because this is giving her some time. It's almost like an education. There's a lot that goes on at the breast and, as you can and I always often think this is like a canvas as well, like a drawing canvas. Many women continue breastfeeding or encouraging their children to breastfeed because it's something that they enjoy, not necessarily something that the child needs. If it's the last child, it's the last time you will ever breastfeed a baby. It's the last time that you'll have those quiet moments together where your child fondly falls asleep in your arms, for example. And many women describe that as being almost like a sense of loss or grief. You're the best girl in the world. It's beautiful, isn't it, Minnie? (LAUGHS) I am in the zone with her. I'm not analysing it to that degree. But I have never had anybody come to me when I'm breastfeeding Minah and said a nasty word against me. In fact, I've had the opposite. I've had people smiling at me and nodding and going, "Wow! Lucky girl! How lucky are you?" I would respectfully question that. I think it's great that people aren't going up and shaming her. That people think she's lucky, no. I mean, you only have to go out and talk to the average Joe on the street, and I can assure you they wouldn't say to you that's a lucky six-year-old girl. They would think, "Oh, that's a little bit weird." And that's why I feel so sorry for her daughter. Whee! Ooh! And now the circle's inside the feet. Let's stop judging women, stop attacking, stop being vicious to one another. Let's meet each other in the field with our hearts open. And coming forward... That is one unconventional mum. Before we go tonight, a quick look at our next Inside Story. Sometimes I think I look like this huge, disgusting mess. We enter a distorted world... ..where nothing is as it seems... Amy, with her anorexia, has a passion for food but she just doesn't eat it. ..as a young woman battles an unseen enemy... Feeding her six times a day to keep her alive. ..to save her life. I know deep down that I'm not just anorexia. I'm a person. I have hope that I won't be this way forever. Oh, my god! Hello. Nice to meet you. I heard you're keen to get better. That confronting story next week. I'm Leila McKinnon. I hope you can join us then.