NA TO ROUROU NA TOKU ROUROU KA ORA AI TE IWI. E TE IWI E POWHIRITIA ANA KOUTOU KI TE HUI. KO MIHINGARANGI TENEI, E KARANGA ATU NEI. NAU MAI, TAHUTI MAI RA. WELCOME TO 'THE HUI', MAORI CURRENT AFFAIRS FOR ALL NZERS. ON TODAY'S AGENDA ` DOING IT TOUGH ` WE COME FACE TO FACE WITH AOTEAROA'S MOST DESPERATELY IN NEED, FORCED TO RELY ON WELFARE AND NOT GETTING THE HELP THEY NEED. THE ONLY THING I HAD LEFT WAS MY DIGNITY, AND THEY TOOK THAT TOO. WINZ DID. THEY MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS BEGGING. WHY ARE SO MANY BEING LOCKED OUT OF OUR ROCK STAR ECONOMY? IT IS NOT A PROBLEM OF BUDGETING. IT IS SIMPLY PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INCOME. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016 KARAHUIHUI MAI NEI. LATER IN THE PROGRAMME, WE ASK OUR PANEL IF NZ IS BECOMING MORE RACIST. BUT FIRST ` IT'S A FACT ` IF YOU'RE MAORI, THEN YOU'RE TWICE AS LIKELY TO BE POOR THAN IF YOU'RE PAKEHA. ACCORDING TO EXPERTS, THIS IS PARTLY A RESULT OF OVER 30 YEARS OF WELFARE REFORMS. THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT SAY TACKLING CHILD POVERTY IN NZ IS A PRIORITY IN ITS THIRD TERM. LAST MONTH BENEFIT RATES FOR ABOUT 100,000 WHANAU WENT UP IN AN ATTEMPT TO EASE THE HARDSHIP FOR THE CHILDREN OF OUR POOREST FAMILIES. SO HOW BAD IS IT FOR PEOPLE TEETERING ON THE EDGE OF OUR ROCK STAR ECONOMY? RUWANI PERERA TALKS TO THOSE ON THE FRONT LINE. TENSE MUSIC THEY QUEUED FOR HOURS. THE COST OF LIVING HAS GONE UP SO MUCH, THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE FOOD. SOME EVEN CAMPED OVERNIGHT. THE CHILDREN HAVEN'T GOT ANYTHING TO EAT, SO LET'S FOCUS ON THAT. DESPERATION HAS BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER IN THEIR HUNDREDS. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE ANSWER IS. ALL I KNOW IS THAT POVERTY IS GETTING WORSE. THIS IS AUCKLAND ACTION AGAINST POVERTY OR AAAP'S IMPACT HUI, AN EVENT WHERE FAMILIES IN NEED REACH OUT FOR HELP. ALL OF YOU IN THE BACK HERE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO HELP YOU TODAY. WE'RE REALLY SORRY ABOUT THAT. VOLUNTEER ADVOCATES ACT AS A GO-BETWEEN, BATTLING ON BEHALF OF WHANAU, HELPING THEM NAVIGATE THEIR WAY THROUGH WORK & INCOME BUREAUCRACY. ALMOST 700 PEOPLE WERE SEEN OVER THREE DAYS. INSIDE, IT'S STILL A WAITING GAME, BUT EVEN HERE NOT EVERYONE WILL BE SEEN. THE PEOPLE WE ARE SEEING HAS INCREASED IMMENSELY. THE PROBLEMS ARE MORE INTENSE, LIKE I SAID. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION IS. I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO THE POLITICIANS TO DEAL WITH. POIGNANT MUSIC 58-YEAR-OLD KATH PARAHA HAS BEEN UNEMPLOYED FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS. IT'S THE FIRST TIME IN HER LIFE WHERE SHE HASN'T WORKED. SHE'S NOW ONE OF ALMOST 280,000 PEOPLE CURRENTLY ON A MAIN BENEFIT. WHAT'S IT LIKE GOING FROM WORKING FULL-TIME TO SURVIVING ON A BENEFIT? IT IS DEVASTATING, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE USED TO` WHEN YOU'RE WORKING, YOU'RE UP HERE. WHEN YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE DOWN HERE. AND IN MY AGE GROUP IT'S A MATTER OF PRIDE. I DON'T LIKE ASKING PEOPLE FOR HELP. I COULDN'T EVEN ASK MY OWN KIDS, BECAUSE THEY WERE STRUGGLING WITH THEIR OWN FAMILIES, YOU KNOW? ONCE A WORKAHOLIC WITH A GOOD JOB AND CAREER PROSPECTS, A CANCER SCARE AND A HEART CONDITION FORCED KATH OUT OF THE WORKFORCE AND ON TO A SICKNESS BENEFIT. I WENT LOOKING FOR JOBS. THEY TURNED ME DOWN BECAUSE OF MY AGE AND MY HEALTH, WHICH I UNDERSTOOD. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ON THE MANAGING SIDE BEFORE, SO I KNEW. BUT IT DIDN'T STOP ME FROM TRYING. I STILL TRIED. THE ONLY THING I HAD LEFT WAS MY DIGNITY, AND THEY TOOK THAT TOO. WINZ DID. THEY MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS BEGGING. THEN I WENT TO IMPACT AND I SAW THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE... PEOPLE CHATTER THIS IS THE SECOND IMPACT GATHERING. KATH WENT ALONG TO THE FIRST ONE IN 2014. THEY HELPED HER OUT, AND SHE RETURNED THE FAVOUR, NOW A VOLUNTEER HERSELF FIGHTING THE WELFARE SYSTEM. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF PEOPLE COME IN HERE AND THEY'RE IN TEARS BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE THEIR HOME OR THEY CAN'T FEED THEIR KIDS, SO WE GET TOGETHER AND WE EMPTY OUR OWN CUPBOARDS. # LIVING ON THE SOUTH SIDE IS SO BAD WHEN IT'S ALL YOU'VE HAD... # FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, MAORI INCOMES HAVE FALLEN FURTHER BEHIND THOSE OF OTHER NZERS. IF YOU'RE MAORI, THEN YOU'RE TWICE AS LIKELY TO LIVE IN POVERTY THAN IF YOU'RE PAKEHA. BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WELL, UNLIKE OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE THE UNITED STATES, THERE'S NO FORMAL MEASURE OF POVERTY HERE IN NZ, BUT MOST EXPERTS AGREE THAT IT'S TIED TO INCOME. AUTHOR AND ACADEMIC MAX RASHBROOKE HAS DONE THE MATHS. A FAMILY, THEY'VE GOT SOMEONE WHO'S IN WORK AND THEY'D BE EARNING MAYBE $500, $600 A WEEK AFTER TAX. YOU GO THROUGH THEIR BUDGET, YOU TAKE OUT RENT, YOU TAKE OUT ALL THE ESSENTIALS, POWER AND EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT, AND THE TYPICAL FAMILY MIGHT BE LEFT WITH, YOU KNOW, $5 PER PERSON PER DAY TO TRY TO PAY FOR ALL THE THINGS. IT IS NOT A PROBLEM OF BUDGETING. IT IS SIMPLY THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INCOME. OVER TIME, REDUCED TAX RATES FOR TOP EARNERS AND BENEFIT CUTS FOR THE POOR HAVEN'T BRIDGED THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE REST. WE'VE SORT OF SOMEHOW CONSTRUCTED AN ECONOMY THAT DOES DELIVER MOST OF ITS REWARDS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY DOING WELL. YEAH, WE'VE GOT AUTHORITY, EH? YEAH, SO I'LL SEND THAT TO` OH, THAT'S RIGHT. KATH KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR THOSE AT THE VERY BOTTOM, AND SHE'S TRYING TO HELP THEM. WE HAD A FAMILY THAT HAD BEEN SLEEPING ON THE FLOOR FOR FOUR YEARS BECAUSE WORK & INCOME KEPT DECLINING THEM. WE GOT THEM ALL A BED. TO THIS DAY THEY ARE SO SHOCKED THAT THEY GOT A BED TO LIVE ON, AND THIS IS SIX KIDS AND THEY'VE ALWAYS SLEPT ON THE FLOOR. A COUPLE OF THEM WERE SLEEPING ON CLOTHES AS A MATTRESS. FROM JANUARY TO MARCH THIS YEAR, MORE THAN 200,000 PEOPLE GOT HARDSHIP GRANTS FROM WINZ. THEY'RE ONE-OFF PAYMENTS FOR THINGS FOOD AND FURNITURE. IT'S NOT A HAND-OUT; IT'S A LOAN. THEY'RE PAYING FOR IT. EVERY ADVANCE IS PAYABLE BACK. GETTING IT OFF WORK & INCOME, THERE'S NO INTEREST RATES TO ADD TO THE BILL. YOU WON'T MISS ANY PAYMENTS. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE WASHING MACHINES AND FRIDGE-FREEZERS ` FAMILIES NEED THEM. REFLECTIVE MUSIC YOU WONDER WHAT'S GONE ON IN THEIR LIVES THAT THEY ARE IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, AND OFTEN IT'S VERY VERY COMPLEX. MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT ANNE TOLLEY SAYS AS A RESULT OF THE IMPACT EVENT, 13% OF PEOPLE WHO TURNED UP HAD CHANGES TO THEIR BENEFIT. WHY AREN'T THEY ACCESSING WORK & INCOME FOR THIS? IT CAN BE QUITE INTIMIDATING GOING INTO A WORK & INCOME OFFICE, AND WE ALL ACCEPT THAT. BUT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT THERE WILL BE SOME PEOPLE FOR WHOM AN ORGANISED EVENT LIKE THAT MAKES THEM COMFORTABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE ONE OF MANY, RATHER THAN GOING AND SEEKING THAT HELP THEMSELVES. YES, YES. I LOVE MY HOME. THIS IS MINE. 54-YEAR-OLD EVANGELINE FENTON AND HER WHANAU HAVE FINALLY MOVED INTO A HOUSING NZ HOME AFTER LIVING IN A ONE-BEDROOM MOTEL FOR SIX WEEKS. CERTAINLY A BIT BIGGER THAN THE MOTEL YOU WERE LIVING IN. IT'S TAKEN A FIGHT TO GET HERE, WHERE WE ARE TODAY, SLEEPING IN MOTELS, PAYING ENORMOUS RENTS. FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, SHE AND HUSBAND EDWARD HAVE HAD FOUR OF THEIR GRANDCHILDREN PERMANENTLY LIVING WITH THEM. IT WAS A BIG CHANGE. OK, WE'VE GOT TO SET ROOTS NOW; WE'VE GOT TO DO THIS ALL OVER AGAIN, BE LIKE A NANA AND TAUA, BUT MORE A MUM AND A DAD. UM, AND WE HAD TO DO RULES. WE HAD TO BE A STABLE FAMILY TO TRY AND GIVE OUR GRANDSONS THE BEST POSSIBLE CHANCE THEY CAN HAVE IN LIFE. WINZ WEREN'T GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WERE ENTITLED TO UNTIL AAAP GOT INVOLVED. THEY'RE NOW ON THE RIGHT BENEFIT, GETTING AN UNSUPPORTED CHILD'S BENEFIT FOR EACH OF THEIR MOKO ` THAT'S A WEEKLY PAYMENT FOR CARERS OF CHILDREN ` AND THE EXTRA MONEY IS MAKING ALL THE DIFFERENCE TO THEIR LIVES. WE DON'T WANT TO BE RICH PEOPLE. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE ENDS MEET WITHOUT LIVING WEEK TO WEEK. I SEE A BETTER FUTURE FOR MY GRANDSONS, AND I FEEL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ACHIEVE. AFTER THE BREAK ` WE ASK WHANAU IF WORK & INCOME ARE LIVING UP TO THEIR TAGLINE TE HIRANGA TANGATA ` THE IMPORTANCE OF PEOPLE. HOW DO WE FEEL WITH WINZ? YEAH, NAH, I'VE BEEN TREATED LIKE A DOG. IT'S BEEN INSULTING GOING IN THERE. THEY'RE QUITE INSULTING TO YOU. WHEN YOU ASK FOR THINGS, THEY MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE REALLY SHAMEFUL. REMEMBER, YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON TWITTER USING #THEHUI. KIA MAU TONU MAI RA. LATER WE DISCUSS RACISM, BUT NEXT WE'LL BE BACK WITH PART TWO OF OUR SPECIAL REPORT ON POVERTY. KO TE HUI TENEI E WHAKAPAHO ATU NEI. THE INCOME GAP BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE POOR CONTINUES TO DRIFT FURTHER APART, BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN 40 YEARS THERE'S BEEN AN INCREASE TO MAIN BENEFITS AND FEWER PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING THEM. BUT DOES THIS MEAN WHANAU ARE FARING BETTER AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WILL IT HELP CLOSE THE GAP? HERE'S RUWANI PERERA WITH PART TWO OF OUR SPECIAL REPORT. DOWNBEAT GUITAR MUSIC INCOME INEQUALITY ISN'T JUST A PROBLEM IN AOTEAROA. TODAY IT'S A GLOBAL CONCERN. THIS INCREASING INEQUALITY IS MOST PRONOUNCED IN OUR COUNTRY. HOW MUCH HAS BEEN DONE TO RAISE PEOPLE OUT OF EXTREME POVERTY? RENOWNED INTELLECTUAL NOAM CHOMSKY'S NEW DOCUMENTARY 'REQUIEM FOR THE AMERICAN DREAM' IS ALL ABOUT THE CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH IN THE US IN THE HANDS OF A SELECT FEW. PART OF THE AMERICAN DREAM IS CLASS MOBILITY ` YOU'RE BORN POOR, YOU WORK HARD, YOU GET RICH. IT'S ALL COLLAPSED. IF WE WANT TO SEE A SOCIETY WHERE ALL KIDS ARE STARTING OUT WITH A DECENT CHANCE IN LIFE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEIR PARENTS HAVE GOT THE INCOME TO SUPPORT THEM, TO GIVE THEM A GOOD START, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO NARROW THOSE INCOME AND WEALTH IMBALANCES THAT WE HAVE AT THE MOMENT. THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT CONCEDES THAT AFTER THREE TERMS IN GOVERNMENT, THEY HAVEN'T CLOSED THE GAP. IT'S BEEN PRETTY MUCH THE SAME SINCE THE EARLY 2000S. IT HASN'T CHANGED` THAT GAP HASN'T CHANGED MUCH AT ALL, AND THAT'S A CONCERN FOR US. MAX RASHBROOKE BELIEVES A NEW GENERATION OF BENEFICIARIES ARE NOW FEELING THE EFFECTS OF RUTH RICHARDSON'S 1991 MOTHER OF ALL BUDGETS. AND WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH IS THAT KIDS WHOSE PARENTS WERE IN POVERTY AND THEN HAVE MOVED OUT NEVER HAVE THE SAME READING LEVELS AS KIDS WHO ARE NEVER POOR, ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SUFFER HEART PROBLEMS IN ADULTHOOD THAN KIDS WHO ARE NEVER POOR. WELCOME TO WORK & INCOME. SO I CAN PUT YOU THROUGH... AS AN ADVOCATE FOR THE CHARITY ORGANISATION AUCKLAND ACTION AGAINST POVERTY, BENEFICIARY KATH PARAHA SEES THE GROWING NUMBERS OF WORKING POOR. CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCES. WE'VE HAD TWO-INCOME PEOPLE COME IN HERE FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND THEY'RE STILL FINDING IT HARD TO SURVIVE, SO THE GOVERNMENT'S GOT TO DO SOMETHING. AND THEY HAVE, BOOSTING PAYMENTS TO BENEFICIARY FAMILIES BY $25 A WEEK IN APRIL. IT'S THE FIRST INCREASE TO BENEFIT RATES SINCE 1972. AND I CAN TELL YOU ` I'VE BEEN OUT AND ABOUT IN MY ELECTORATE ` THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STARTING TO GET THAT NOW ARE SAYING WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT IS MAKING TO THEM ON A DAILY BASIS. I THINK THE INCREASE IN BENEFITS WAS REALLY IMPORTANT AS A STATEMENT BECAUSE IT SAID WE ARE FINALLY ACKNOWLEDGING BENEFICIARIES HAVE BEEN FALLING BEHIND EVERYONE ELSE IN NZ. AND THE CONTRAST WITH SUPERANNUATION IS REALLY STRIKING BECAUSE SUPERANNUATION IS PEGGED TO THE AVERAGE WAGE, SO EVERY TIME THE AVERAGE WAGE GOES UP, SUPERANNUATION GOES UP. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS PEGGING BENEFITS TO THE AVERAGE WAGE. INSTEAD THE GOVERNMENT'S FOCUSSED ON GETTING PEOPLE OFF WELFARE AND INTO LONG-TERM WORK. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE PEOPLE THAT GO OFF BENEFIT INTO A JOB, DOESN'T LAST AND COME BACK ON TO BENEFIT. WE'VE GOT TOO MANY OF THOSE, SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY THINKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN FIND BETTER WAYS TO HELP PEOPLE INTO WORK. BUT GETTING A JOB ISN'T THE ANSWER FOR MARY PEHI. THE 52-YEAR-OLD FOUND JUGGLING FULL-TIME WORK AND LOOKING AFTER HER 30-YEAR-OLD SON VAUGHN IMPOSSIBLE. VAUGHN HAS THE GENETIC DISORDER DOWN SYNDROME AND NEEDS 24/7 CARE. POIGNANT MUSIC 30 YEARS OLD, BUT IT'S STILL LIKE CARING FOR A 3-YEAR-OLD OR` BECAUSE WHO'S GOING TO CARE FOR HIM? WHO'S GOING TO DO ALL THIS IF I'M AT WORK? COS YOU DON'T GET A DAY OFF. YOU DON'T HAVE TIME OFF. YOU DON'T JUST RING IN SAY GOING TO BE SICK TODAY. WHO'S GOING TO DO THAT? AFTER ADVICE FROM AAAP ADVOCATES, MARY CLAIMS WORK & INCOME DIDN'T PAY HER THE BENEFIT SHE WAS ENTITLED TO FOR CARING FOR VAUGHN FROM THE TIME HE WAS BORN TILL HE TURNED 16. WHEN HE WAS YOUNG IT WAS LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME, 'GO AND GET A JOB,' AND EVERYTHING. I WENT AND GOT A JOB. I WORKED FULL-TIME, AND I HAD ALL THAT TAKEN FROM ME, LIKE THE HELP AND SUPPORT PAYING FOR THE CARE FOR HIM. POIGNANT MUSIC NO HELP WAS THERE FOR ME. THEY SAID I WAS EARNING TOO MUCH. WELL, WHAT? WHAT? (LAUGHS) REFLECTIVE MUSIC A LOT OF THE TIME THEY AREN'T GETTING THEIR FULL ENTITLEMENTS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WORK & INCOME TURNED INTO LIKE A HUMAN CAPABILITY AGENCY, YOU KNOW, WHERE WHAT THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT IS, 'HOW DO WE HELP THIS PERSON ABSOLUTELY MAKE THE MOST OF THEIR LIFE?' NOT, 'HOW DO WE RESTRICT THE INCOME THAT THEY'RE GETTING FROM THE STATE?' WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON IS MAKING SURE WE PROVIDE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT LOOKS AFTER THEM. TRIPLE AAAP VOLUNTEERS ARE THERE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEY AREN'T GETTING THE ANSWERS THEY NEED FROM WORK & INCOME. KATH KEEPS UP TO DATE WITH THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT, THE CORNERSTONE OF OUR WELFARE POLICIES. IT'S HER BEST WEAPON TO HELP WHANAU. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, AND THAT'S WHAT WE TEACH THE PEOPLE WE HELP, AND IT STRENGTHENS THEM. IT, UM... THEY ARE STRONGER PEOPLE BECAUSE OF IT. I'D ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GO INTO THOSE OFFICES AND NOT JUST WAIT FOR AN EVENT LIKE THE AAA. THE NUMBERS FOR THOSE ON A MAIN BENEFIT ARE THE LOWEST IN EIGHT YEARS, FEWER THAN 280,000, BUT EXPERTS SAY A DECREASE IS NATURAL FOR AN ECONOMY IN RECOVERY AFTER THE 2007 GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS. JUST BECAUSE NUMBERS OF BENEFITS ARE DECREASING DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE IMPROVING, BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING OFF BENEFIT. AND IF THEY'RE JUST GOING OFF THE BENEFIT AND DISAPPEARING FROM THE REGISTERS, UM, THEN, ACTUALLY, THEIR LIVES WON'T HAVE IMPROVED AT ALL, SO I DON'T THINK YOU CAN POINT TO THAT AS A MEASURE OF SUCCESS. DO YOU TRACK THEM AFTER THEY COME OFF A BENEFIT? WE DON'T TRACK PEOPLE. WE TRACK HOW MANY LEAVE BENEFIT. THEY MIGHT BE WORSE OFF AFTER LEAVING A BENEFIT? WELL, I WOULD HATE TO THINK THAT THEY ARE, AND CERTAINLY AS I GO AROUND THE COUNTRY AND TALK TO WORK & INCOME STAFF, THEIR JOB IS TO SUPPORT PEOPLE TO GET INTO WORK AND TO SUPPORT THEM TO KEEP THEM GOING WHILE THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND WORK. SO I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN WHY SOMEONE WOULD NOT BE ACCESSING THE SUPPORT THAT'S THERE, UNLESS THEY HAVE REASONS LIKE THEY HAVEN'T COMPLIED WITH THE OBLIGATIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH GETTING THAT SUPPORT FROM THE TAXPAYER. REFLECTIVE MUSIC HERE ON THE FRONT LINE, ALL THESE PEOPLE WANT IS TO FEED THEIR KIDS AND PUT A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS. SOMETHING'S GOT TO BE DONE SOON. THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE GENUINE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT GENUINELY NEED HELP, AND IT'S HARD TO ASK FOR HELP. THERE IS PEOPLE OUT THERE, AND THERE IS HOPE. NA RUWANI PERERA TERA PURONGO. KEI TUA O NGA WHAKATAIRANGA. HE WHENUA KAIKIRI A AOTEAROA? AFTER THE BREAK, OUR PANEL GETS INTO THE RACISM DEBATE. NOHO TONU MAI RA. KIA ORA MAI ANO. WELL, IT'S BEEN QUITE A REGRESSIVE COUPLE OF WEEKS ON THE RACE-RELATIONS FRONT HERE IN AOTEAROA. THE NEW PLYMOUTH MAYOR, SELF-DESCRIBED RECOVERING RACIST ANDREW JUDD, HAS ANNOUNCED HE WON'T SEEK RE-ELECTION. MAYOR JUDD SAYS HE'S BEEN SPAT ON AND HARASSED FOR HIS SUPPORT OF MAORI REPRESENTATION IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. THEN TO TOP IT OFF, THIS CARTOON ABOUT MAORI CHILD ABUSE STARTED DOING THE ROUNDS, AND IT BEGS THE QUESTION ` IS NZ BECOMING MORE RACIST? WE CONDUCTED A TWITTER POLL ASKING IF THAT'S THE CASE. 47% SAID AE, 16% SAID KAO, AND 37% SAID IT'S THE SAME. NOW TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE, I'M JOINED BY THE FORMER MINISTER OF MAORI AFFAIRS, THE HONOURABLE WEST SIDE TORY, TAU HENARE, AND BY SINGER, WRITER AND COMMENTATOR MOANA MANIAPOTO. TENA KORUA. KIA ORA. WELL, WE WEREN'T ACTUALLY SURE WHETHER WE SHOULD USE THAT CARTOON, BUT I THINK IN ITSELF IT HIGHLIGHTS AN ISSUE THAT WE PRETEND THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ARE RACIST, BUT THIS WAS PRODUCED HERE IN AOTEAROA. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? MY INITIAL THOUGHTS WHEN I SAW IT, UM, WAS TO SAY WHAT A WANKER. BECAUSE THAT'S` THAT'S ACTUALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT BELONGS ` IN THE BIN OF RUBBISH. UM, BUT IT DOES SHOW THAT THERE'S AN UNDERLYING` SOME SORT OF FEAR OF THE DARK RACE, THE MAORI RACE, UM, THE MAORI CULTURE. UM, I DO THINK NZ IS` HAS THIS RACIST TINGE TO IT. AND LET ME SAY RIGHT FROM THE OUTSET ` RACISM ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE PEOPLE IN POWER HAVE THE POWER TO BE RACIST. I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO BE RACIST, MOANA DOESN'T, YOU DON'T, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY POWER. UM, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MINISTER IN CHARGE OF CHILD, YOUTH AND FAMILY WHO ACTUALLY GOES ON TV AND SAYS, 'ACTUALLY, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG. THIS NEEDS TO GET DUMPED,' THEN THERE ARE ISSUES THAT YOU NED TO DEAL WITH. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE TWO YEARS AGO, THAT SAME MINISTER SAID THAT THERE WAS NO INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN CORRECTIONS OR THE POLICE. AND NOW SHE'S SAYING SHE HAS A PANEL WHO'VE DECIDED THAT THERE IS UNCONSCIOUS AND CONSCIOUS BIAS IN THE SYSTEM. MOANA, IS THAT JUST DRESSING IT UP? IS THAT A POLITICAL SPIN? THAT'S JUST EUPHEMISM. I MEAN, WE HAVE` INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IS ENTRENCHING PAKEHA PRIVILEGE, AND IT'S BEEN THIS WAY EVER SINCE THE TREATY, SO, YOU KNOW` MANY PAKEHA DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE BENEFICIARIES` THEY ARE THE BENEFICIARIES` THEY ARE THE BENEFICIARIES OF THE TREATY. UM, YOU KNOW, WE ALL EXPERIENCE INDIVIDUAL RACISM JUST EVERY DAY ` HAVING OUR NAMES MISPRONOUNCED AND THINGS LIKE THAT; HAVING TO DRIVE 70 K TO TAKE YOUR KID TO SCHOOL SO THEY CAN LEARN MAORI, BECAUSE THE SCHOOLS AROUND YOU DON'T. AND WHY DON'T THEY? BECAUSE IT'S NOT VALUED, AND THERE'S NO DIRECTION FROM THE TOP. YOU CALL YOURSELF A REFUGEE. A REO REFUGEE. I AM, AND, YOU KNOW, MANY MAORI, WE EXPERIENCE INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN SO MANY WAYS ` GOING TO THE TRIBUNAL AND HEARING HOW GOVERNMENTS DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE WITH MAORI; THEY THINK PUTTING UP A WEBSITE ABOUT THE TPPA IS ENGAGEMENT. SO IT'S ENTRENCHED. THE FACT WE'RE EVEN TALKING ABOUT IT IS` SAYS SOMETHING. YET LAST WEEK, UM, YOU KNOW, TV ONE'S PRESENTER MIKE HOSKING SAID, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT MAYOR JUDD, WHO'D COME OUT AND SAID THAT MAORI DO DESERVE FAIR REPRESENTATION AT LOCAL BODY GOVERNMENT, YEAH. BUT, SEE, I DIDN'T GET TOO OFFENDED BY WHAT HOSKING SAID. IT'S THE UNDERLYING MESSAGE THAT I GOT OFFENDED AT. AND THAT UNDERLYING MESSAGE` BUT DIDN'T HE DENOUNCE ANDREW JUDD'S EXPERIENCE? NAH, WHAT HE DENOUNCED WAS THE FACT THAT ANY MAORI CAN STAND FOR, UM, ELECTION. BUT HE DOESN'T REALISE THAT MAORI DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND ON A KAUPAPA MAORI BASIS AND GET ELECTED BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM ITSELF WON'T ALLOW IT. DEMOCRACY DOESN'T ALLOW THAT. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. DEMOCRACY'S OVERRATED. DEMOCRACY AND MAORI REPRESENTATION ISN'T THE SAME THING. THAT'S RIGHT. AND THAT WAS THE KIND OF CONFUSION THIS WEEK ` PEOPLE SAYING, 'THAT'S NOT DEMOCRATIC.' IT'S EASY TO POKE HOLES IN HOSKING'S ARGUMENT. THE FACT THAT HE HAS GOT A PLATFORM ON A STATE-FUNDED INSTITUTION AND THAT HE HAS GOT WIDE BERTH TO GIVE` YOU KNOW, TO` FOR LEVERAGING OF HIS TOTALLY STUFFED-UP VIEWS, UM, IS THE ISSUE. AND THAT IS PART OF` THAT'S A REPRESENTATION OF INSTITUTIONAL RACISM. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT SAME PLATFORM. IT'S NOT ABOUT EVEN HAVING A BALANCED ARGUMENT, BECAUSE HE'S WRONG. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A RIGHT AND THERE'S A WRONG. SO, YOU KNOW. WELL, WE DID HAVE MIRIAMA KAMO THE NEXT DAY CORRECTING HIM ON THE STATE BROADCASTER. SHE` SHE TALKED ABOUT HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, AND SHE TOUCHED ON INSTITUTIONAL RACISM. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF PAKEHA OUT THERE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT MIKE HOSKING'S VIEWS ARE TOTALLY STUFFED. THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD ADVOCATES OUT THERE. JUDD IS ONE. KELSEY IS ANOTHER ONE. WE NEED THEM TO MOBILISE, TRANSFORM AND EDUCATE THEIR COLLEAGUES, THEIR MATES. AND THAT'S WHAT ANDREW JUDD IS SAYING. HE SAYS THIS IS A DISCUSSION FOR PAKEHA TO HAVE WITH PAKEHA ABOUT A PAKEHA ISSUE. DO YOU AGREE? OH, I DUNNO. I GET SICK OF HEARING ABOUT ANDREW JUDD, QUITE FRANKLY. WHY? OH, HE` ONLY BECAUSE NOW HE'S BEEN` HE, AFTER 170-ODD YEARS, IS BEING PUT UP AS THE NICE GUY, YOU KNOW? FIRST OF ALL, HE BAILED OUT. YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T PUT HIS, UH, STUFF ON THE LINE THIS ELECTION. HE SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO RUN, SO NOBODY KICKED HIM OUT. ARE YOU CHALLENGING HIM TO`? I'M NOT CHALLENGING ANYBODY. NOBODY WANTS TO` I THINK` I THINK THE POINT THAT TAU'S TRYING TO MAKE` AND MY FIRST INSTINCT WAS HEARING THIS WAS, LIKE, I'M THINKING BACK TO TE WHITI, I'M THINKING RIGHT THROUGH THERE TO HOWIE TAMATI AND MAORI WHO FOR DECADES AND YEARS HAVE TALKED ABOUT MAORI REPRESENTATION. SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE. PAKEHA WILL ONLY LISTEN TO PAKEHA. THAT'S THE REALITY. THAT'S WHY WE NEED` AND THAT'S HIS POINT. THAT'S RIGHT. EXACTLY. HE'S SAYING PAKEHA NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH PAKEHA. SO HE` SO HE BAILS OUT. COS IT GOT TOO TOUGH FOR HIM, UM, HE BAILED OUT. LOOK, I GOT` I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE. OH, COME ON! LET'S FIND A SOLUTION, THEN. NOBODY SAID TO HIM, 'YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO RUN.' NO, I THINK THAT WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT ` AND I'M NOT ALL OVER THIS ISSUE ` BUT I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT IT'LL BECOME ABOUT HIM, THE ISSUE WON'T GET ADDRESSED. MAYBE HE CAN END UP GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND TALKING TO OTHER PAKEHAS AND STARTING TO SWITCH THEIR MIND. BUT DO YOU THINK THE ISSUE HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN SOME WAY? INSTITUTIONAL RACISM HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED. OK. SO, UH` BUT IT WON'T` IT WON'T BE ADDRESSED. HE'S SAYING THAT PAKEHA SHOULD HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH PAKEHA. SHALL WE HAVE A`? SHALL WE OFFER UP THE HUI FOR PAKEHA TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH PAKEHA? I THINK THERE ARE GOOD ADVOCATES OUT THERE. THERE'S MANY GOOD ADVOCATES WORKING IN EDUCATION, HEALTH, JUSTICE, RIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD, AND THEY NEED TO ` AND EVERYBODY ELSE NEEDS TO ` LOOK AT THEMSELVES AND SEE, 'WHAT AM I DOING IN THIS POSITION OF PRIVILEGE TO TRANSFORM THE STRUCTURES THAT I WORK IN 'AND THAT ARE ENTRENCHING WHITE PRIVILEGE?' SO THAT` YOU KNOW, THAT` TO UNDERSTAND THAT ANYTHING THAT'S GOOD FOR MAORI IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY. THERE ARE A LOT OF PAKEHAS OUT THERE THAT DO THAT. BUT IT WON'T CHA` HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, THE THING ABOUT HIM IS HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WAKE UP MAORI TOMORROW. YOU DO. OH, DO I? YEAH. (CHUCKLES) DAMN! YEAH, AND YOU ARE MORE LIKELY` DAMN IT! YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO GET PULLED UP BY A COP IN YOUR CAR THAN HOSKING'S ON 'SEVEN SHARP'. OH, I DUNNO. AND MY MATE` THERE'S A FACT. WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TENA KORUA. NEXT WEEK ON 'THE HUI' ` HE'S A TRUE NGA PUHI LEGEND ` A BASKETBALLER, A WAVE RIDER AND A KAPA HAKA KAEA, AND HE'S DOING IT ALL WITH SPINA BIFIDA. TO ME, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS 'YOU CAN'T'. WE MEET TE KOPA KOPA, A REMARKABLE YOUNG MAN WITH THE WORLD AT HIS FEET. HE'S THE POPULAR ONE IN KURA, MAN. BOTH GRUNT (LAUGHS) OH WOW! NO REIRA KUA HIKINA 'TE HUI' MO TENEI RA. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY, HUI HOPPERS, AND YOU'LL FIND ALL OF OUR STORIES ON THE 3NOW WEBSITE, AND WE'LL POST OUR LINKS ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE ` THEHUITV3 OR ON TWITTER ` @THEHUITV3 MAKE SURE TO TELL TAUA AND POUA TO CHECK US OUT NEXT WEEK. UNTIL NEXT WEEK, E HOA MA, HEI KONEI RA. CAPTIONS BY ABLE WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016