1 Brought to you by the Mazda CX3. Tonight on Sunday ` we need to talk about Ashley. How do you feel about being inside there? It sucks. He's not a criminal, but he's been locked in isolation. Cruel, degrading and inhuman treatment. Correct. 'Could you please let me out?' Do we release him into our community? He has committed more assaults on other staff and patients than any other client we've had through our service. They always wait for me. This is their daily bread. Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne. At 45, Matt Damon is taking back the role of the unbreakable Jason Bourne... He's seen things. He knows things. ...and he's taking on the Donald. I don't know what I said. Ah! I don't remember! You've called him xenophobic, disgusting and dehumanising. Yeah. You wanna keep out my own family. Like` (LAUGHS) It's insane. It's totally insane. Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. Ashley Peacock has committed no crime, but he's spent hundreds of days locked alone in a small bedroom. In one three-year period, his parents say he was allowed out ` on average ` just 30 minutes a day. He's still in a seclusion room, which is now locked less often, but his ongoing care at a Porirua hospital has been damned by the Chief Ombudsman, who calls it, 'cruel, degrading and inhuman.' 38-year-old Ashley is difficult ` one of our most difficult mental health patients ` but do we just lock him up, or do we give him the care his parents say he needs and deserves? Janet McIntyre met Ashley ` a man who still hopes to follow his dreams. Woohoo! Yeah! Ashley's world is full of fish he cannot actually catch... Oh no, the lucky fish ` it lives! Yes, the lucky fish lives! ...on a lake that's really a lawn. Well, I get on the ark on the clock face and I go from 11 till 1. As a boy, he dreamed of becoming a trout fishing guide. Do you wanna try it? Uh, I wouldn't know how to start. OK then, I'll teach you. OK. Not so good? Not too bad. (LAUGHS) This is just a brief moment of freedom ` timeout from the psychiatric hospital where he is detained. Would you rather be outside here, or in your room? I'd rather be... ...in the wilds. (CHUCKLES) Why? Ooh. Um... We'll come back to that. For 10 years, this has been Ashley's home ` inside the securely enclosed Tawhirimatea Unit at Porirua Hospital. He calls it a prison. His parents Marlena and Dave are forbidden from visiting him in his room. They can see it only from the top of a hill. Do you think it's reasonable that you as parents should be denied access to see where he is? No. No, quite unreasonable, really. I mean, this is meant to be a rehab unit, for goodness' sake. What sort of rehab is that? Ashley Peacock is one of a kind ` schizophrenic, autistic, intellectually disabled, at times violent. He's been in NZ's mental health system since he was a teenager. His behaviour is so challenging, over the years, he's been confined alone in his room for hours, days, weeks at a time. At his worst, he was scarcely allowed out of his locked room for almost 3 years. Putting someone in seclusion for all of that time has caused immense damage. That's one of my all-time favourites. Marlena and Dave ` devoted parents and guardians of Ashley ` have followed him from facility to facility around the North Island to be close to him. At Tawhirimatea, they see him in an interview room, and only when he's well. At one point, I didn't see him for 60 days, and when he came out he was like someone with cerebral palsy. He couldn't talk, and we challenged them and said, 'He needs us. He needs to see us, 'even if it's only through the window of the seclusion room. He needs us.' ...as Ashley has always needed his parents. A very, very anxious baby. In fact, I can truly say that for the first two and a half years, he didn't sleep a wink. Clingy, unhappy at school, slow to learn to read, he was 13 when he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder ` the first of many psychiatric assessments. He failed School C and struggled at polytech, but at home with his parents, he tried to create his idea of order. We had got to the point where we couldn't cope. Going home and finding the bedroom was piled up to the roof with all the things he'd moved from the rest of the house` Honestly, it was just utter chaos. His placement a decade ago at Tawhirimatea ` a facility for our most troubled mental health patients ` on the instruction of the Director for Mental Health was a last resort after his psychotic behaviour, including violence, could not be managed. In 2010 he was formally placed in one of three seclusion bedrooms, where patients can be restrained and locked up. He was in this little 10m2 room for all but 30 minutes a day for a three-year period. I mean, that is shocking in itself. Especially in seclusion` You could call it solitary confinement. The DHB disputes the idea of solitary confinement, claiming that even in that three-year period, Ashley had some freedom to move and do outside activities. But he didn't get better. He got worse ` as had been predicted in a 2009 psychological assessment. And in 2011, in his treatment plan ` The next year, after Ashley refused to take his anti-psychotic drugs because of their side effects, he had a severe reaction. He was totally excluded from us because he was considered too unwell, so he was in his room with nothing to do ` poo on the floor, drink his urine and all of this sort of stuff. He was covered in shit. He wouldn't let them in his room for two or three days, so they couldn't clean it. They couldn't remove the stuff. He didn't have access to a toilet? No, because he's locked in and they wouldn't` he was too dangerous. He had a potty. He had a cardboard` whatever you call it. But he didn't` he chose to use polystyrene cups instead, and he had them all lined up in the room. So he'd defecate into those? Yeah. How long did this go on for? Days? Oh, more than days. More than days. Weeks? Yes. Yes, weeks. And you're saying he was locked in, alone` Yeah. ...and no one came in to care for him? Well, they were trying to get in` But they couldn't. He wouldn't let them in. He'd become like a wild animal. I will not speak up publicly often, but this is one where I've decided to. New Chief Ombudsman, judge Peter Boshier. I would have thought ` from a humane dignity point of view ` that for someone who is unwell, we need to manage them in a way which is humane, not which is convenient. Judge Boshier says Ashley's care at Tawhirimatea breaches the International Convention on Crimes of Torture. His office has repeatedly urged the Capital & Coast DHB to find a more appropriate facility for Ashley. The most recent report has been released under the Official Information Act. To quote from your report, 'cruel, degrading and inhuman treatment.' Correct. Your office has written has written three reports on this from as far back as 2011. Why has nothing happened? It's ultimately public opinion ` so often ` that achieves an outcome, so we will be publishing our reports more in the hope that things we draw attention to will be actioned a little quicker. So those previous reports have simply been ignored? I would have thought that the length of time that's gone by between us first raising this and now is fairly described as 'excruciatingly slow.' Hey, what did he do there? Up next ` Ashley's carers respond... He has committed more assaults on other staff and patients than any other client. 'To Prince William,...' ...and Ashley's plea for freedom. 'Could you please give me $400 zillion to get me out of this building?' # Old MacDonald had a farm. E-I-E-I-O! # Ashley loves animals. They were waiting for you, I think, Ashley. Oh, they always wait for me. This is their daily bread. They get some carrots. When he's well, he's allowed out to visit them most days, always accompanied by two carers. This one is Honkus and that's Donkus. Conkus and Donkus? Honkus and Donkus. Honkus and Donkus. Sometimes the ponies are friends, sometimes family. This is not Honkus and Donkus. This is my son, Donald Munroe, and that one there is Roz Doogan. How do you know that? She told me. They can actually speak. The voices he hears are a sign of his psychosis ` his distorted reality. There's a little imaginary circle that comes from Pluto. We all have that. It's perfectly natural. Yeah. It goes around the circle. You have one. Yes, you do. (LAUGHS) Where is it? It's on your right hemisphere of your head. Yes, over here. Can you see it? No, you can't see it. It's imaginary. I'm not denying that he is crazy at times ` he's totally crazy now ` but I don't think anyone's acknowledged the effect of seclusion. You're saying he's totally crazy? At times, yeah. Like today he was crazy ` not in a dangerous way, but just off the planet. But some days, he is dangerous. He lashes out. In 2011, the CCDHB says he was assaulting staff around once every two weeks. That` That's probably true. So you don't deny he's violent? No. He can be. He's much better now, of course. How strong is he? Oh, he's pretty strong. His assaults and that a few years ago when he was in seclusion were pretty full on. I mean, he` he could really hurt the staff. And he has. And he has, yes, and he's been hurt himself pretty badly as well. Ashley is the most assaultative patient that we've ever had through our mental health services, and... Dr Suzanna Every-Palmer and Nigel Fairley of the Capital & Coast Health Board agreed to speak to Sunday about Ashley after his parents ` also his guardians ` waived his right to privacy. He has committed more assaults on other staff and patients than any other client we've had through our service. How many? There have been, since he has been admitted, hundreds` um, I think 323 incidents. To put that in context, those incidents may be as minor as verbal abuse, through to causing serious injuries. The violence is generally psychotically driven. He sometimes believes that the people he likes and works with ` his care team ` are the people who've done him wrong, or are malevolent beings, and he attacks them on that basis. He's now been in the unit for 10 years. Why haven't your treatment and rehabilitation worked for him? That's a really good question, because our rehabilitation and treatment work for most patients. Ashley's actually very sensitive to anti-psychotic treatment. He's experienced side effects and we've been unable to use the doses that we might usually use. But a report late last year stated Ashley was on ` His dose has since been reduced. Some people, despite the best treatment that you've got on offer, don't respond well. Yeah, he was just swimming in the summer, and... Dave and Marlena say it's Ashley's living conditions in the seclusion wing which provoke him. You seclude somebody like Ashley ` who doesn't understand why he's in there, for a start ` so he would get very angry about this and lash out. Now, when he lashed out, of course, they would put him` make` keep him in seclusion even longer, so it was an awful catch-22 to be caught in. Why does he live in the seclusion wing? Yeah, so we wouldn't call that the seclusion wing. It's a high-care area of the unit. The rooms` There are three seclusion bedrooms, aren't there? Yeah, so there's three bedrooms that are designated as seclusion rooms. That means they can be locked if they need to be, but the vast majority of time they are not. Why is he living in one of those three seclusion rooms? Ashley doesn't like the other part of the unit. He prefers the high-care area with fewer patients, a high staff ratio and, I think, an area that he feels safe. But for just 90 minutes most days away from the hospital grounds, this is where he'd rather be. What's it like in there? How do you feel about being inside there? It sucks. (LAUGHS) Why? It's too constricted. Constricted? How? On your head. How does putting Ashley into seclusion assist his mental condition? It doesn't. Does it make it worse? I'm not sure, but we never think that seclusion is helpful to anyone's mental condition ` never, ever. It's only ever used to manage risk, to manage violence. The observation of the Ombudsman is that he's been subjected to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. The DHB doesn't agree with that. We don't accept that it's degrading or inhumane. He spends lots of time out of that area, which is a high-care area, which is where his room is. No one's saying it's ideal, and we're always working hard to look at alternatives, but it is actually the best available place for him` for his care in NZ. 'Could you please let me out? Or if you cannot let me out...' Ashley has written to his heroes ` on DHB letterhead ` asking for help. 'To Mozart ` Could you please give me $400 zillion so I can`' 'To Prince William ` Could you please give me $400 zillion to get me out of this building?' What do you think Ashley needs? A quiet environment in a rural setting with a couple of animals. I'd see him in a cottage` a three bedroom cottage with very competent supervisors. So he'd need 24/7 care? Yes. Hell yes. Yeah, that's right, and I think he'd thrive. I guess the problem with that is the unknown. Is Ashley going to put the community at risk by being outside? Well, is he going to put the staff at risk by being inside? And I think the risk is bigger inside. Surely that counts for something` counts for everything, really. Two full-time carers, his own cottage ` it's a big resource. A huge resource. Yeah, but what about the damage and the human rights issues that they have ignored? They won't acknowledge that putting someone in seclusion for all that time has caused immense damage, so I say to hell with them. They need to pay for that. Me and Old Pa used to compete non-stop, didn't we, Old Pa? Yes, we did. (LAUGHS) Not` Not really. Yeah, I reckon we did. Ashley's family, the Ombudsman, the Human Rights Commission, even his own doctors agree ` Ashley's care is not working. He needs a change - something to suit his unique needs. Just what exactly that is, what it will cost and when it will happen is anyone's guess. Even the suggestion of the house in the community with the high fence and the locked gate and all the staff and the secure room and that` That would take a long time to organise. Is it about money? It has nothing to do with money. It's to do what's best for Ashley given his very difficult situation. But we do want to move him out of Tawhirimatea. That's our goal and we want to do that soon and we want to create a special solution for him. So when will that happen? So there is a proposal, uh, that is with the Ministry of Health. It is feasible for him to be transitioned into the community. Judge Boshier says it needs to happen quickly. To put Ashley into his own personalised facility will cost millions. Why should taxpayers foot the bill? That's the way a civilised society works. We take care of the vulnerable and we look after them. Hey. (LAUGHS) Hey, what did he do then? Ashley's committed no crime, but he's spent years in confinement. They're gruff. Hard case. His parents ` now in their 70s ` know that time is running out to get him better care. My heart bleeds to think of just how bad it would be, and that's why we've kept going for so, so long ` because I just couldn't bear to see him in that awful situation without our support. Where would you like to be? Taupo. Taupo? (LAUGHS) Where the trout are? (LAUGHS) Yeah. What would you like to do at Taupo? Well, Ashley's behaviour has improved substantially, say his parents, since he had seven rotten teeth extracted in May. He hadn't been taken to a dentist for eight years. The CCDHB says he had refused to go. The Ministry of Health said it couldn't discuss individual cases, but it was supporting the DHB to ensure the appropriate level of care is provided to Ashley. Well, next ` Jason Bourne's back. This interview is pretty special. Matt Damon opens up about his wife and four daughters, ambition and success with lifelong buddy Ben Affleck, his hatred of Donald Trump, that movie, Team America, and yes, on the role of his life ` Jason Bourne. Why would he come back now? You did say you weren't gonna do another Bourne film. What brought you back? Well, I said I wouldn't do it without Paul. That's about to really kick off now. Can you show me just a little bit` like, how it works? Yeah, all right. (GERMAN ACCENT) That was good. Good workout. Welcome back. Several years after his disappearance at the end of the Bourne Ultimatum, Jason Bourne unexpectedly resurfaces at a time when the world is faced with unprecedented instability. Not only is Matt Damon back starring in his most famous and successful role as CIA-trained agent Jason Bourne, off-screen he's doing his best to thwart Donald Trump's White House ambitions, and as Rahni Sadler discovers, he doesn't pull punches on Trump, and he's fighting-fit for the return to the role of his life. Hey! You ready to walk and talk? I'm ready to walk and talk, Matt. What are you wa`? Oh, you're watching` Ah. Yeah, I'm watching this film. Do you know what happens after this? I do. Really? I do. Oh, you're watching the old one? Yeah, because, like, you're kinda` I thought you were dead. No. Look. Look. (GASPS) I swim away. Matt Damon swam away from that scene and the entire blockbuster Bourne franchise. The world's nicest actor said goodbye to its most brutally efficient action hero. But action's never too far away from Matt Damon. ...and action! You do so many action scenes. Are you actually a good fighter, or`? You say it's more like a dance. It is a lot more like a dance, cos` cos, you know, in a real fight you don't know what's gonna happen, and, um, if you tried to do that it would be just disastrous, um, you know, because it's gotta be specifically choreographed. That's kinda the profile. The camera's gotta be in exactly the right place. How quickly could you take me down? Oh, no, I` You know, I` I'm not` I'm a terrible fighter. Seriously? Yeah, I'm a movie fighter. (LAUGHS) I fight fake karate. I'm like an` I'm like a blackbelt in fake karate. (GERMAN ACCENT) That was good. Good workout. Can you show me just a little bit? Like, how it works? Yeah, all right, so if we were playing to his camera` OK. So if he's turned towards me, you need the hand to cross the` cross the face, and you can't see space, so this'll be good, cos from his camera and his camera, you're gonna have two different punches. If I were to throw a left hook, right` Yeah. 'K, so then if you just turn your head ` bam! ` like that, that'll sell for that camera, but it'll look terrible for that camera, cos you'll see the space, right? I don't have to get that close to you. I can` I can be a good foot or 18 inches away, so you're never in any danger, and it'll sell from that camera. Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne. At 45, Matt Damon is taking back the role of the unbreakable Jason Bourne for his fourth explosive outing. He's seen things. He knows things. What if he's not coming for us? What if it's something else? You started playing Bourne when you were 29, turning 30` Yeah. How much harder is it to get into shape? It's a lot harder. To make all the blokes at home feel better, how much work do you have to put into it? It` It's a lot harder. A lot of it's the diet. That's the worst part, too, is just, like` I love going out and eating. I love going out and drinking good wine and eating good food with my wife. Like, it's one of my favourite things to do, so` so that part was` That was my` That was my sacrifice, but that's not a lot to sacrifice, ultimately, to make a movie that you really wanna make. Damon's first mission as Jason Bourne in 2002 was a box office hit, and set the scene for the high-octane thrillers to follow. It's about to really kick off now. With director Paul Greengrass,... I was trying to` How far did you let the camera get ahead of you before you started? ...Matt made another two hugely successful Bourne films and then, to the surprise of fans, walked away. You did say you weren't gonna do another Bourne film. What brought you back? Well, I said I wouldn't do it without Paul, and so` It was always something that he and I would talk about. We were always looking for stuff to do together. I think after a while, we kinda felt like we're really` we're kinda dicks if we don't do another one, you know? (LAUGHS) So we knew we wanted to, but then it was a question of ` well, what would the movie be and what's the story? And so it took a few more years to figure it out. Why would he come back now? There's a demonstration in front of the Greek parliament building. I think she'll use it as cover. They tracked you. We gotta move. Can you tell me five ways Matt Damon is not like Jason Bourne? (LAUGHS) I can give you more than five. (LAUGHS) We can start with all the languages that he speaks that I wish I spoke. (SPEAKS FRENCH) I hope there's an app for that someday ` that, uh, they can just download that. Uh, let's see. I mean` Well, the way he fights. I mean, I certainly can't fight like that. He's a lot more tortured than I am. You know, I think I` I've got a great wife ` he definitely doesn't ` and I've got kids. Matt is raising four daughters ` Alexia, Isabella, Gia and Stella. He's been married to Argentinian-born Luciana Barroso for 11 years. Five women in the house` It's a lot of oestrogen. I gotta` You know, occasionally I need to leave to take my walk around the park by myself, but it's really wonderful. There were no sisters ` just one brother ` in Matt's childhood home. He grew up in Boston, his mum a professor, his dad a stockbroker. At 10, he found his best friend. Ben Affleck grew up two streets away. Both shared the dream of one day having a career in movies. It's moving. No, it's not. What the hell is going on here? What is this? Hey! Hey, get` What`? Why are you touching me? I'm not touching you. Stop`! CHEERS AND APPLAUSE That dream came true. In 1997, the virtual unknowns wrote Good Will Hunting, and somehow convinced studios to let them star in it as well. Let's let the healing begin. Will you excuse us? Can you describe the very first day of shooting? You and Ben waited so long for that moment. You finally saw Robin Williams and Stellan Skarsgard acting out your words. At the end of the scene, he put his hands on his head and said, 'You really did this.' Can you describe that moment? Yeah, I remember, uh, realising that tears were coming down my face. It` It was such a` It was such a long process ` or at least what felt to us like a long process, cos we were so young. Um, I started writing it` You know, I was 22 and Ben was 20, so we were` we didn't feel young, but we were young, and by the time we were shooting it, I was 26 and he was 24, so to go` On that first day, neither of us were working and we went to watch these two great actors ` these heavyweights, these people that we really admired ` I've got a full schedule. I'm very busy. This boy is incredible. I've never seen anything like him. What makes him so incredible, Jerry? ...saying the things that we'd written, and it just was` it was incredible. That was` That was one of the most` I mean, more than winning the Academy Award or anything, that` that moment was` was a bigger deal. And the Oscar goes to Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. CHEERS AND APPLAUSE Yeah! Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are childhood friends. They appeared together in Chasing Amy and Good Will Hunting, for which Damon received a Best Actor nomination. This is their first Academy Award. Al Pacino said the secret to success is` But what does he know? Yeah, exactly. Well, I was gonna say, he said the secret to success is learning his lines, or learning your lines. What do you reckon the secret to success is? That's a good` I never him` I've never heard that. That's great. Um, that is definitely one of the` uh, the secrets to success. Um, yeah. Having something to say and knowing what it is. Yeah. So true. Next ` Matt Damon and Donald Trump, and it is personal. I don't know what I said. Ah! I don't remember! President Obama's made the point that it's a very serious job. Um` Yeah, it's the most serious job. We're going to build a wall. My wife's family` You know, it's like` You wanna keep out my own family. Like` (LAUGHS) It's insane. It's totally insane. 1 James Francis Ryan of Iowa? Yes, sir. Uh, Paton, Iowa, that's correct. What is this about? Your brothers were killed in combat. In a career that's spanned almost three decades, Matt has built a diverse body of work... Which` Which ones? All of them. ...alongside some of Hollywood's biggest stars. Frank, do they know about me? I know about you, Colin. But last year, in the stratospheric hit The Martian, he spent most of his time all alone. Whoo! EXPLOSION Now, this is a pretty frivolous question going into a pretty serious subject, but which would you prefer ` to live in the US under a Donald Trump presidency, or battle it out as the only human on Mars? Let me just say ` please, save some property in Australia` (LAUGHS) (LAUGHS) ...becau` just for` for my family. We're good people. (LAUGHS) We'll` We'll contribute. Um, but, uh, the prospect of a Trump presidency is` It still feels like` It just fe` still feels surreal. I don't know what I said. Ah! I don't remember! I'm really rich. I'll show you that in a second. The third group, I'll be a little more violent, and the fourth group, I'll say, 'Get the hell outta here!' You've called him xenophobic, disgusting and dehumanising. Yeah. Yeah, look, I mean, he` you know, he wants to build a wall ar` You know, it's like` My wife's family` You know, it's like` You wanna keep out my own family. Like` (LAUGHS) It's insane. It's totally insane, and ridiculous and, you know, impractical to boot. We're going to build a wall. It's going to be built. It's not even` Believe it or not, it's not even a difficult thing to do. It's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard on a number of levels, but, um` but it's one of his main kind of selling points. President Obama's made the point that it's a very serious job. Um` Yeah, it's the most serious job. We need a serious person in that` in that office. You know, the idea that it's gonna be this` this` this guy is just incredible. The time has come for us to start using our acting talents in a different way. Yes, we can use our powers to change the world. ALL BEAT TABLE RHYTHMICALLY It was Matt's strong political views that resulted in one of his most often-quoted roles ` one he didn't actually play. Matt Damon. I was kinda baffled when I saw the movie, and I love that movie, and I'm glad that I was, you know, uh, pilloried in the movie, also because, you know, the actors who they kinda called out in that movie were all the ones who were vocal about their opposition to the Iraq War. Helen Hunt, George Clooney, Liv Tyler, Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, Janeane Garofalo and Matt Damon. Matt Damon. ...and I stand by that, and` you know, and I wear it as a badge of honour that they made fun of me, but I still sign autographs` Like, you know the professional autograph people? They come with pictures from all these different movies, and I sign the puppet one more than any, and they` and they ask me to write, 'Maaaaaaatt Damon.' (LAUGHS) Matt Damon! Very cool, and the new Jason Bourne movie opens in cinemas 28th of July. Well, that's our show for tonight. Do join us on Facebook and Twitter. Thanks for joining us this evening. See you next week.