MORENA. GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. AND WHILE YOU SLEPT, ONE KIWI ROWER MADE A GOLDEN DASH IN A THRILLING FINAL. IT'S DAMI MARTIN FROM DRYSDALE, BUT DRYSDALE HAS THE FINISH. OH! MAHE DRYSDALE, TWO-TIME OLYMPIC CHAMPION. WHAT A RACE FROM HIM! WE'LL HAVE THAT AND ALL THE LATEST ACTION ON AND OFF THE WATER FROM RIO. THEN, THE ASYLUM SEEKERS ON NAURU, AND THE LEAKED REPORTS THAT ALLEGE ABUSE OF CHILDREN ON AUSTRALIA'S DETENTION ISLAND. WE'LL BE SPEAKING TO LABOUR'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESPERSON, DAVID SHEARER, PLUS AN AUSTRALIAN AID WORKER WHO WAS THERE. I COULD HEAR THIS HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC SCREAMING, I COULD HEAR THIS HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC SCREAMING, PEOPLE POURING OUT OF THIS TENT, COLLAPSING ON TO THE GROUND. AND AFTER ANOTHER DONALD TRUMP TRIP-UP THIS WEEK, HAS THE PRESIDENTIAL CONTEST TURNED IN HILLARY CLINTON'S FAVOUR? TODAY JESS INTERVIEWS A FORMER US AMBASSADOR WITH TIES TO BOTH THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, ALSO A CLOSE FRIEND OF THE CLINTONS. HIS INSIGHT ON Q+A THIS MORNING. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT ALL THAT AND MORE WITH OUR PANEL, POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR BRYCE EDWARDS FROM OTAGO UNIVERSITY. PHIL QUINN, A FORMER POLITICAL STAFFER IN NZ AND AUSTRALIA, THESE DAYS A FREELANCE WRITER. AND HEATHER ROY, A FORMER ACT MP AND MINISTER, NOW A PROFESSIONAL DIRECTOR. BUT BEFORE WE GET TO POLITICS THIS MORNING, KIWI ROWING LEGEND MAHE DRYSDALE DEFENDED HIS OLYMPIC TITLE THIS MORNING. IT WAS A THRILLING SINGLE SCULLS RACE. DRYSDALE WINNING IN SPECTACULAR STYLE, BUT NOT WITHOUT AN INSANE PHOTO FINISH. THE KIWI PIPPING CROAT DAMIR MARTIN ` THE CLOSEST IN OLYMPIC HISTORY. WHAT A STORY FROM DRYSDALE ` 5-TIME WORLD CHAMPION, OLYMPIC DOUBLE-CHAMPION, OLYMPIC BEST TIME HOLDER, WORLD BEST TIME HOLDER ` THERE'S NOT MANY MORE THINGS THIS MAN CAN WIN IN THE SPORT. DRYSDALE'S BACK-TO-BACK GOLD MOVES NEW ZEALAND TO 13TH ON THE MEDAL STANDINGS WITH EIGHT MEDALS IN TOTAL. AND THE GOLD MEDALLIST SPOKE TO PETER WILLIAMS AFTER THE RACE, SAYING IT WAS NO EASY VICTORY. IT WAS A PRETTY TOUGH FEW MINUTES. YEAH, I KNEW THAT I'D SPENT EVERYTHING, BUT, YEAH, YOU JUST WANT THE RESULT TO GO YOUR WAY, AND I'VE HAD A FEW IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT HAVEN'T GONE MY WAY. SO, YEAH, THAT WAS THE ONE I WANTED. BECAUSE I SUPPOSE YOU WERE THINKING, 'OH BLIMEY, IF I LOSE THIS, THAT MEANS I'VE GOT THE SET OF OLYMPIC MEDALS THAT` AND I KNOW GOLD, SILVER AND BRONZE WOULD BE GREAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, TWO GOLDS AND A BRONZE IS BETTER, ISN'T IT? YEAH, IT'S CERTAINLY THE SET THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO COMPLETE TODAY. I THINK ANY OLYMPIC MEDAL IS FANTASTIC, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO GET A GOLD IS JUST THAT MUCH MORE SPECIAL, AND THAT WAS ALWAYS THE GOAL, COMING BACK FOR THIS FOUR YEARS, WAS TO GET THAT GOLD. SO TELL US ABOUT THE RACE. WE WERE WATCHING IT ON TELEVISION AT OUR APARTMENT. IT WAS HALF PAST 10 IN THE MORNING. AND WITH 500 TO GO, YOU WERE COMFORTABLE, 400, YOU WERE COMFORTABLE. I SAID TO MY COLLEAGUES, 'OH, WE'VE GOT THIS.' WHAT HAPPENED IN THOSE LAST 450M, 300M? OBVIOUSLY, THE LAST FEW YEARS, I'VE LEARNT A FEW LESSONS, AND THAT IS I NEED TO GET IN FRONT AND I NEED TO GET IN FRONT AS EARLY AS I CAN. SO I WAS REALLY PLEASED WITH THE EARLY STAGES OF THE RACE. GOING THROUGH THE THOUSAND, I WAS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT DOWN ON WHAT I WANTED TO BE, I WAS STILL JUST OVER A SECOND. AND WHEN I CAME THROUGH THAT 1500 AND I WAS SORT OF A SECOND IN FRONT, I THOUGHT, 'WOW, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW, I GUESS, 'I DREAMED ABOUT IT HAPPENING.' NOW I JUST KEEP MOVING AWAY FROM THE FIELD. BUT WE JUST HUNG IN THERE, HUNG IN THERE, AND THREW IN A SPRINT, WHICH I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM, BECAUSE I CERTAINLY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TO SPRINT AT THE END, AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS REALLY BY THEN JUST TRYING TO FIGHT HIM OFF. THE NZ ROWING BOARD PUT A TARGET OF FIVE MEDALS HERE IN RIO. IN THE END, IT WAS ONLY THREE. I KNOW YOU AND ERIC AND HAMISH HAVE BEEN THE STARS OF THE SHOW. BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK OVERALL OF THE NZ PERFORMANCE FALLING SHORT OF THAT MEDAL TARGET? I THINK OVERALL IT'S STILL AN INCREDIBLE ACHIEVEMENT. BUT OUR STANDARDS ARE HIGH, AND AS A TEAM, WE'VE FALLEN SHORT. THERE'S NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT. IT'S THE WAY IT IS. WE'LL DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING. We've had incredible performance with the finals and a couple of finals and 5th, and 6, so it's not all a disaster. There are a lot of things we can learn from this and hopefully improve and we can be back. To the did in perspective, it's our 2nd Olympics. It's certainly a lot of good things happening. But we do need to go when hopefully learn from it and turn that around. What about your future short-term or long-term?7 I really don't know. Really my life was planned until today. 15 August is when everything goes out the window. I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow. Will make some decisions. I'll present going to go and enjoy the family and have a bit of a holiday. We will start to reflect on what has happened over the last 4 years. It is a possibility of going again or what holds for us. PETER WILLIAMS THERE WITH MAHE DRYSDALE. BACK TO POLITICS AFTER THE BREAK. AND WE'RE KEEN TO HEAR FROM YOU. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ, OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50C CENTS. NEXT UP - LABOUR'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESPERSON DAVID SHEARER REPORTS OF WIDESPREAD ABUSE OF CHILDREN IN DETENTION ON NAURU, AND JESS SPEAKS TO AN AUSTRALIAN AID WORKER AND JESS SPEAKS TO AN AUSTRALIAN AID WORKER WHOSE HAD FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE OF THE CONDITIONS THERE. 2000 LEAKED REPORTS INTO ALLEGED ABUSE OF ASYLUM SEEKERS ON NAURU HAVE PAINTED A DAMNING PICTURE OF AUSTRALIA'S REFUGEE POLICY THIS WEEK. CHILD ABUSE, SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SELF-HARM WERE GRAPHICALLY DESCRIBED IN REPORTS WRITTEN BY STAFF WORKING ON THE DETENTION ISLAND. THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT'S DISMISSED THE REPORTS BY GUARDIAN JOURNALISTS, SAYING MANY OF THE ABUSE CLAIMS ARE FABRICATED. OPPOSITION LABOR PARTY, HOWEVER, HAS PLEDGED TO ESTABLISH A PARLIAMENTARY ENQUIRY INTO THE CLAIMS. WE ASKED OUR FOREIGN MINISTER MURRAY MCCULLY FOR A RESPONSE. HE SAYS OUR GOVERNMENT CONDEMNS ANY FORM OF ABUSE OR MALTREATMENT. ON FRIDAY, I SPOKE TO NATASHA BLUCHER. IN 2014, SHE WORKED FOR SAVE THE CHILDREN ON NAURU, BUT WAS FORCED TO LEAVE AFTER AUSTRALIA'S IMMIGRATION DEPARTMENT ACCUSED HER AND OTHER AID WORKERS OF ENCOURAGING ASYLUM SEEKERS TO SELF HARM, A CLAIM SHE STRONGLY REJECTS. I STARTED OFF BY ASKING HER IF THE GUARDIAN STORY REFLECTED WHAT SHE'D SEEN ON THE ISLAND. ABSOLUTELY. THESE INCIDENT REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED BY THE GUARDIAN RECENTLY ARE ACTUALLY REPORTS THAT WE WROTE IN THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF OUR PROFESSIONAL ROLES THERE. THEY WERE PART OF THE INTERNAL REPORTING SYSTEM, AND IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE MADE SURE THAT WE CAPTURED EVERYTHING THAT WE WITNESSED QUITE OBJECTIVELY AND PROFESSIONALLY, AND, SO, YES, I WOULD SAY THEY'RE ALL 100% ACCURATE. THERE ARE SOME PRETTY AWFUL THINGS THAT ARE DEPICTED IN SOME OF THESE FILES. HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT THIS INFORMATION GETS OUT? I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT FOR US AS FORMER WORKERS. SOME OF US, LIKE MYSELF, HAVE SPOKEN WITH MEDIA BEFORE, AND WE'VE GIVEN EVIDENCE TO AN AUSTRALIAN SENATE INQUIRY ABOUT THE CONDITIONS AND CIRCUMSTANCES ON NAURU. BUT IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT'S ONLY OUR VOICES, SO IT'S US TELLING OUR STORIES AND WE KNOW IT TO BE TRUE, BUT WE'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO EVIDENCE THAT BEFORE. AND SO TO HAVE SUCH A SOLID BODY OF EVIDENCE IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE IS REALLY FANTASTIC, I THINK. CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE? WERE THERE ANY STORIES OR ANY MOMENTS THAT STUCK OUT FOR YOU AND HAVE STAYED WITH YOU? YEAH, THERE IS A FEW. THERE ARE THINGS THAT, YEAH, DO JUST SORT OF RANDOMLY POP UP INTO MY MIND. WHEN I CAME BACK FROM NAURU, I STRUGGLED FOR A LONG TIME. I THINK PROBABLY WHAT MOST AFFECTED ME WAS THERE WAS A PERIOD AROUND THE END OF SEPTEMBER IN 2014, WHEN SCOTT MORRISON, THE THEN IMMIGRATION MINISTER, PRESENTED A VIDEO TO PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE REGIONAL PROCESSING CENTRE TO REMIND THEM THAT ALTHOUGH HE'D GIVEN A COMMITMENT THAT PEOPLE WHO HAD ARRIVED ON THE SAME BOATS AS THEM COULD BE SETTLED INTO THE AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY, THAT THAT CHANGE WOULDN'T AFFECT THEM AND THAT THEY SHOULD REALISE THAT THEY WILL BE IN NAURU FOR A VERY LONG TIME OR THEY SHOULD CONSIDER GOING HOME. BUT I REMEMBER WALKING OUTSIDE BECAUSE I COULD HEAR THIS HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC SCREAMING, PEOPLE POURING OUT OF THIS TENT WHERE THIS VIDEO HAD BEEN PLAYED, COLLAPSING ON THE GROUND AND JUST HORRIFIC SCREAMING. CHILDREN WERE THERE WHILE THEIR PARENTS WERE COLLAPSING IN COMPLETE MENTAL ANGUISH, AND THEY WERE TRYING TO REMOVE THE CHILDREN FROM THE SITUATION, BUT THAT WILSON'S HAD INTERRUPTED THAT AND TOLD THEM THAT THEY HAD TO LEAVE THE CAMP. AND THAT MOMENT WAS TERRIFYING, I THINK, FOR ALL OF US BECAUSE WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. WAS IT THAT MOMENT FOR THEM THAT THEY JUST LOST HOPE THAT THEY WOULD EVER GET TO AUSTRALIA, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THEIR END GOAL? I THINK IT WAS MORE THAT IT THEN STRETCHED THIS UNCERTAINTY THAT THEY'D BEEN EXPERIENCING FOR SO LONG, AND REMEMBER, I MEAN, AT THIS TIME THEY'D BEEN IN CLOSED DETENTION IN THIS VERY HARSH ENVIRONMENT FOR OVER A YEAR. AND I GUESS WHAT WAS KEEPING THEM HOLDING ON WAS THE HOPE THAT EVENTUALLY THERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF STABLE OUTCOME. BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD IN THE GUARDIAN REPORTS STORIES OF PEOPLE SHOPPING FOR BRIBES, OF CHILD ABUSE, OF SELF-HARM. ARE THESE THE REALITIES OF LIFE ON NAURU? ABSOLUTELY. WHEN I WAS THERE, THERE WERE PERVASIVE, PERVASIVE REPORTS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT. I DIDN'T DIRECTLY HAVE ANY SEXUAL ASSAULTS OR ACTUAL RAPES DISCLOSED TO ME AT THAT TIME, BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO WERE SAYING THAT THEY WERE VERY VERY AFRAID AND THAT SECURITY OFFICERS EMPLOYED BY WILSON SECURITY, MAINLY LOCAL NAURUANS, WERE HARASSING THEM SEXUALLY. SOME WERE SAYING THAT THERE WAS A LIST BEING KEPT BY NAURUAN OFFICERS OF WOMEN THAT THEY WOULD GO AFTER WHEN THEY WERE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. AND THEY FELT VERY VERY UNSAFE. SO, YEAH, IT REALLY IS A REALITY THAT THE LEVEL OF SELF-HARM WAS HORRIFIC. AND I'VE GOT AN INTERESTING SITUATION, BECAUSE AFTER I STOPPED WORKING ON NAURU, I CAME TO DARWIN, WHERE I LIVE NOW, AND WORKED FOR AN ORGANISATION CALLED DARWIN ASYLUM SEEKER ADVOCACY NETWORK. AND SO I WORKED IN DETENTION HERE IN DARWIN WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE MEDEVAC'D FROM NAURU BECAUSE THEY HAD SERIOUS ILLNESSES OR ABSOLUTE MENTAL HEALTH BREAKDOWNS. AND SO WHILE I WAS WORKING WITH THE SAME PEOPLE HERE AS I HAD WORKED WITH ON NAURU, MANY OF THESE WOMEN DISCLOSED TO ME THAT THEY HAD BEEN RAPED OR SEXUALLY ASSAULTED WHILE THEY WERE ON NAURU, AND WHEN THEY WERE THERE, THEY WERE TOO AFRAID TO MAKE THOSE ALLEGATIONS OR TO REPORT IT TO AUTHORITIES. SO IT REALLY IS A VERY SCARY SITUATION. BECAUSE THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT HAS DISMISSED THIS REPORT AND ALSO WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE THERE, YOU WERE ASKED TO LEAVE BECAUSE A GROUP OF AID WORKERS WERE SAID TO BE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO SELF-HARM SO THAT THEY'D BE ABLE TO LEAVE. DID YOU SEE ANYTHING OR WITNESS ANYTHING? IS THERE ANY TRUTH TO THAT? NO. THOSE ALLEGATIONS WERE UTTERLY HORRIFIC. IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT I REFERRED TO AFTER THAT VIDEO WAS PLAYED, THERE WAS A PERIOD OF ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE DAYS WHERE PEOPLE WERE SELF-HARMING AT A TERRIFYING RATE WHERE PEOPLE WERE SELF-HARMING AT A TERRIFYING RATE AND ALL SORT OF SECTORS OF THE CAMP, MEANING, LIKE, YOU KNOW, FATHERS, MOTHERS, TEENAGE GIRLS, SINGLE WOMEN, WERE MAKING SUICIDE PACTS. AND WHAT I REMEMBER FROM THAT TIME IS THAT MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUES WERE EXHAUSTED. WE WERE PHYSICALLY RUNNING FROM ONE CLIENT TO THE NEXT AND TRYING TO DISSUADE PEOPLE FROM HARMING THEMSELVES. AND WE WERE TERRIFIED. I MEAN, I REMEMBER WE SHARED ROOMS IN THE STAFF ACCOMMODATION, AND I REMEMBER THERE WAS QUITE A FEW NIGHTS THERE WHERE MY ROOMMATE AND I DECIDED TO LEAVE THE DOOR SLIGHTLY OPEN IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND WE NEEDED TO BE CALLED ON TO GO BACK TO THE CAMP. BECAUSE WE REALLY WERE EXPECTING A MASS SUICIDE DISASTER AT THAT TIME, AND WE WERE WORKING SO, SO HARD, LIKE REALLY WORKING OUR GUTS OUT TO TRY TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HARMING THEMSELVES, SO TO HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE ISLAND AND THEN IT BE ALLEGED THAT ANY OF US HAD ENGAGED IN ANYTHING LIKE THAT WAS HORRIFIC. YOU'VE BEEN ORDERED BY LAW, PEOPLE LIKE AID WORKERS AND DOCTORS WHO WORKED ON NAURU, NOT TO TALK OUT ABOUT THIS. DO YOU FEEL SAFE TALKING TO THE MEDIA ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED? IT'S DIFFICULT TO TELL. I MEAN, I HAVE OBTAINED LEGAL ADVICE, AND I THINK THAT I AM RELATIVELY SAFE BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT I CAN SAY TO YOU IS ALREADY ON THE PUBLIC RECORD FROM SENATE INQUIRIES AND FROM RELEASE DOCUMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT, YEAH, I MEAN, WE DO NEED TO BE CAREFUL AND CAUTIOUS, AND IT IS SCARY, YEAH. THAT WAS A FORMER 'SAVE THE CHILDREN' CASEWORKER, NATASHA BLUCHER SPEAKING THERE. AND JOINING ME NOW FOR HIS TAKE ON THIS IS DAVID SHEARER, LABOUR'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESPERSON. Natasha painted a pretty brutal picture of what happens on Nauru. What they think should we be doing in NZ? She does painted pretty brutal picture. The bigger issue is about indefinite detention. It's a little prison sentence we know you went to be out in 5 years. These people are here or there for the foreseeable future. I think that's the real part of why they are feeling as they are. It is part of the problem. With the report came out, it shocked us all. It reiterated many of the things that people saying. The policies unsustainable. It's almost like Australia has lost its moral compass and where it's going. I really do think, NZ, however it can, should make the offer anyway to say, look, what is it we can do to short-circuit this. The government is a ready set to Australian government with a 150 refugees. I disagree with the way they did that. That means Australia will decide the refugees we taken. Does it help? If we take another hundred and 50, another 150 go there. Exactly. That is my point. If we are intervening, it should move the camps of closing down. Is the reality of the situation that a lot of Australians what is asylum-seekers to stay on Nauru. Do you feel differently NZ? I think we do. It's interesting to contrast it happens in Australia. The difference between the reaction to the young people being abused in the territories, it's been kind of pushed under the carpet and been made as we heard ` you can go to jail for 2 years for reporting on what you see as an aid worker is a doctor on these islands as well. It is extraordinary that you go to that length if you try and cover up what is happening there. But you can only do that if you have a degree of popular backing behind you. But I do think that Australian replication has been diminished as a result of that, and if we can is Nzers do something to be able to help in the end, we should actually put our hands up and say this is the Pacific. We should do something as well. Giving 150 is the right number? Do we be able to choose? I don't want to get into numbers. I don't like the way John key do that. I think what we should be doing is sit down with the Australians and ask how we should do this. We did this with Tampa. As a result of that, it short-circuited the problem. It actually help John key win the elections. The Tampa refugees are actually doing very well.. It would have to be, why does he say, on the condition that this policy is in. Let's talk about Helen Clark. How confident are you now, given these recent polls, that she will be successful for the UN? It would have to be a disappointment in the latest. Some of those would be the permanent 5. They have a special vote. When it comes at the end of the day, their vote is a veto. If they disagree, that person is effectively out. It would be discouraging for her. Do you think she should pull out? She has to make a call herself. We might get to a point where that might be a factor. A real chance, if you like, was if there was no agreement in the East European, between the United States and Russia. She was to be working in the middle. I think the next voting will be 29 August. The domestic politics now, the Labour Party has come out picking a fight with Nicke Legget. Is that smart? And you will save how he sees it. It's an extraordinary amount of coverage. It's unwarranted. I think it's mainly around the edges. I can guarantee nobody came up to me and talked about left-wing housing or right wing. It's certainly not front of mind of most Nzers. They're saying Andrew little it's thin-skinned. How did you take it? People to blog against you. At the end of the day, I just didn't read the blogs. Apologies to the people sitting on the panel today, but I just didn't think it was worth it. I think it is what about focusing on what the important stuff is. But he can bring the young vote in. Isn't that what Labour should be doing? Andrew is very aware that we need to firm up that center vote. We have talked about that many times. It is a matter of getting on in getting on to the main issues like housing and what's happening with were, where we are going is a party, what the issues are talking about on the football field as opposed to these blogs and that sort of thing. Thank you very much. THANKS, JESS. LOTS TO TALK ABOUT WITH OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. Bryce Edwards, whose blog wasn't read. Let's talk about this report. Australia doesn't seem to be feeling the heat. Gato go back to the 2001 Tampa crisis. The asylum issue has always been recognized on both sides. I spoke to an old colleague of mine who was socialist left and Victoria whose explained to me that there is an internal point that quite shockingly are to the right of Tony Abbott on the question of asylum seekers. To the Labor Party has to look at that and way up if we are going to expose themselves. So while I think that the tension centre issue is morally abominable and they should be closed down, the fact of the matter is on both sides of politics, there is no will or pressure to do that. The Tampa issued effectively one the government the election. In Australia, it's not just the government that's the problem, it's the lack of leadership on the left. The Australian Labor Party aren't providing an argument against this. This is why partisan politics is in favor of this. Although there is a wonderful job being done of critiquing the government, there is a disservice being done to the centers, because there isn't anything being done. Instead he should direct his firepower to this counterparts. What do you think of the response? John key says we are taking 150 more people. I thought David Shearer summed it up pretty well. Australia has lost moral complex. If we are supporting Helen Clark, we had to support the UNHCR. Would they have taken a very strong advocacy role of having the centre shut down. I don't think we can sell to support what they are saying you for not going to take our UN role seriously. What happened in 2015 was a border control act was introduced and passed by both parties. The greens opposed it. It said any volunteer and those detention centers spoke out publicly would be punished with 2 years in prison. It's costing Australia $600,000 per refugee per year. It's a cheap option. It's not a cheap option given the way that they're handling this politically, they would pay double that if they could keep the problem away from their radar. It's only that moral compass issue that is going to change things. Australians are going to need pressure from elsewhere. It's not going to happen domestically. If the Australian Labor Party were smart, they would force the laser beam on the children and force children to be taken off the island. Is there still to pigheaded for that, come back and revisit the discussion. The Australians have been playing it acid group of asylum-seekers. Not individual people. And it's been working for them. I don't think the media in Australia reporting very strongly in this. That is why the NZ media have to play that part. We have to push. To change behavior. We have like to think that we are different if we were in the same situation. But that is more than academic. We've never gotten this far. I think the NZ government would respond similarly. But I think we have a better feel for that in NZ. It's been 15 years of systematic weaponisation of this issue. This has been going on since Tampa. I think we have a soft or hard. Neither side wants to be softheaded on it. It's not mission impossible. It was shut down between 2008 at 2012. So what changed? Let's move to Helen Clark. Her lead seems to be fading fast. I think we kind of fool ourselves in at nationalistic way. She has a mini discouraged votes that is to unpopular to be able to win this. Is it better to pull out and do some damage control? In the end there is a veto of the permanent 5. There is some chance. Let's talk about the Labour Party, Phil. David Shearer is not going to talk about it, but there seems to be a division. I would necessarily categorize myself, as a gay atheist that I am right wing. I don't know how helpful those labels are to be honest. As far as David Shearer's comments, I think he was right on the money. Why was Andrew little talking about Nick Leggett and not Nick Smith? Especially when it was based on a set of information that was clearly given to him by Justin's campaign manager, who works in Andrew Little's office. What happened was a friend of mine and he Nick Leggett's ` he's a very good friend. We have a mutual friend who owns a restaurant in Auckland. He asked me to speak about American politics Nick agreed to come along. The group there was like NZ. I spoke about the American election and I got as a series of questions about the American election, we had something to eat, flat white, and we went home. Next thing you know, Andrew little was accusing us of undermining and engaging in back room politics. It's not a fundraiser. I think the biggest reason for that is that I live in Vietnam. You noticing what about you time and asked about cracks in the party that aren't so obvious until its to late. You have to be really really careful about making those accusations. I do think that they should've focused on Nick Smith. The country actually want to see a viable opposition, and is viably serve when it has got a strong government and a strong opposition holding them to account. What Andrew little seem to be saying is some sort of secret right winger. AFTER THE BREAK, WITH HILLARY CLINTON APPEARING TO GAIN THE UPPER HAND IN THE US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, WE ASK A CLOSE FRIEND OF THE CLINTONS ABOUT WHAT DRIVES HER TO SUCCEED. PEOPLE LIKE DONALD TRUMP, WHO ARE TOTALLY` SHOULDN'T EVEN BE WHERE HE IS, SO... LAUGHTER GOD HELP US. APPLAUSE I THINK PEOPLE NOW ARE STARTING TO REALLY PUSH BACK. THE MEDIA, THEY'VE GIVEN HIM ALL THIS ATTENTION, AND FINALLY THEY'RE STARTING TO SAY, 'COME ON, DONALD. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. THIS IS NUTS. 'THIS IS INSANE.' THAT'S ROBERT DE NIRO GIVING HIS THOUGHTS ON FELLOW NEW YORKER DONALD TRUMP AT THE SARAJEVO FILM FESTIVAL. AND HE'S GIVING VOICE TO WHAT SEEMS TO BE A SEACHANGE IN THE US ELECTION, WHERE THE PUBLIC'S APPETITE FOR TRUMP AND HIS CANDIDACY SEEMS TO BE WANING. BUT IS THAT ACTUALLY THE CASE? MY NEXT GUEST HAS TIES TO BOTH SIDES OF THE US POLITICAL DIVIDE. DEREK SHEARER IS A FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO FINLAND. HE WAS AN ADVISOR TO BILL CLINTON AND IS NOW THE DIRECTOR OF THE MCKINNON CENTER FOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS. HE'S ON A SPEAKING TOUR OF NZ AS A GUEST OF THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND JOINS ME NOW. I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU, dONALD tRUMP HAS HAD A BAD COUPLE OF WEEKS. HE IS DOWN IN THE POLLS. Do you think this is a turning point in his campaign? No. We still have some big events coming including the big debates. A lot of people are on holiday. It is summer in the US. They are trying to get him to be a little more disciplined. Will it be difficult for Trump? He has a habit of making comments, like the Second Amendment comment. Do you think those platforms could get him in a world of trouble? He already is. He is fraught messenger for a very strong message. He is the first reality TV star who has never been in an elected office. He has a very strong message. His speech did very well. But he stepped on his own message. He is a narcissist and can't control himself. He suggested gun owners might want to shoot judges. He suggested the elections might be rigged. He goes off message. People smile when he says those things, but it is not actually funny, is it? Because he is trying to be president. It is not funny. That is very serious. One of these people is going to be president. Mrs Clinton is the first female nominee. It is done in the context of a lot of gangster about globalisation. This is the first American election in which globalisation is an issue. You know Hillary Clinton. I want to know more about her. What is the driving force? I have known Hillary since we were university students. She cares about women and children. She and my wife have the same mean tour. Mentor both of them started out the careers working to defend the rights of children. She has also been a US Senator and a Secreatary of state. She is probably the most prepared candidate to run for president. What is she like on a personal level? Does she have a good sense of humour? She has a great sense of humour. When I hosted her in Helsinki, some of my staff were nervous. She came in and was so wonderful and personal and down to earth. In the end of it, they see the press was wrong. She is intelligent with a great sense of humour. She'd never wanted to be a politician, unlike her husband. She has had to learn their craft. It is not just the press. The public, in the polls, don't seem to like her. Why is that, if she is so warm in person? When she left as Secretary of State, she was most popular woman in the world. And then the Republican Party very successfully tried to drive it down. It has been a constant attack for two years. Part of the attack has been that she is a woman. When you add it all up, no one should be surprised, given that level. Has there been a time when he had known her behind-the-scenes where she has surprised you? The story I try and get her to tell is one summer she worked on a fishing boat in Alaska working with fish. We can't find any pictures of their. I think there would be really wonderful. She comes from a middle-class background. She got her success in life by working hard. What surprised me is how private she has been. It has been hard for all of us in her campaign to get her to talk personally. She started to do that more talk about her mother's upbringing and her own life. Bill Clinton seemed to be quite an open book. Do think it is more difficult because she is a woman, because she has been in the background for so long? I think her personality is not to trumpet herself. But I think it is difficult for any woman politician in the United States to figure out what level you should share in. If you share a story and you get a little bit emotional, the new look weak. It has taken her a while to hit a happy balance. When you have been in the spotlight for 20 years, being attacked, it is not easy. If she becomes President, do you think she will run the office like a man? Or will she be able to bring that female perspective to? I am shocked you would ask that question. You interview me like a professional. I think she would be a better president than her husband was. Do think the American public is ready for that? I think we are. The American women's movement has been at the forefront of all sorts of women's rights if you are to Democratic convention, there was that wonderful moment we have picture came up and a glass wall broke open. I think people will be surprised how population she becomes as a president. Do you think Donald Trump's involvement has changed the landscape of politics? What he did was kind of call out the Republican Party itself. The have been lots of coded ways in which the Republican Party has become the party of white people and have appealed to white southerners and middle-class whites who are upset about the social change in America. But usually they were polite about it and said they were just against government. But he is saying things that people were thinking. I think both parties are somewhat to blame for the idea that globalisation is all good and if you are a loser in globalisation it is your fault. It needs to be win-win, not some people lose. He also highlighted that. He is more than just an amusing clown. He is a serious person in that his message is resonating with certain segments of the American public. I urge you grant to watch the debates we now televised. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. Is the selection going to be about peoplemmore about Hillary Clinton or people desperately not wanting Donald Trump? It's like being asked to choose between the Ebola virus in the Zika virus. I think this wasan excellent analysis. Donald Trump will be thumped. She is competitive in places like Georgia and North Carolina and even Utah. I think we are heading for the first landslide in presidential politics since 1988. When the dust has settled and Donald Trumphas gone on to his next reality TV project, Trumpism will remain, and someone far more plausible and disciplined then Trump will emerge. I think Hillary will have a tough time even in her own party, holding back those forces of antiestablishment energy. Who is Bernie Sanders? I feel like we have not seen the last of Bernie Sanders. I think that is likely to have happened, but Trump has discredited that antiestablishment thinking. They will be a bit tarred by what Trump has been about. We might see more centrist politics in the US. What does this say about politics? You have this guy who knows nothing aboutpolitics and steers Barack Obama is the founder of Isis. More Republicans were against him then in favour of him. I think it is problematic for Republicans who are principled will stop I think a lot of their votes will go to Gary Johnson. His modus operandi appears to be not to respond to something or deny allegations but just to attack. I think he is running out of steam. Then ability to outrage is losing momentum. He jumped one too many in my view, and has attack on the family. If 13 point lead holds for the next two or three weeks, I think you will see a tipping point within the GOP establishment. I think you will see the deserting Trump en masse and urging Republicans tto vote elsewhere. All that will take is one horrendous terrorist attack for Trump to... it could still happen. It could be that terrorist event that could play into trance hands. It could be leaked e-mails that discredit Clinton. Trump has come back from stupidity before. What is a say about the political landscape? He is rich, famous and sees outrageous things. So does Kanye West. Has this change what people expect from a presidential candidate in America? It is no longer about policies. It is more about people. The focus for the last few elections has been a focus on the person rather than the policies. It has been followed by New Zealand and Australian politics as well. It is not a good thing. We should be focusing on the policies. There are two elements of the drum message that our brilliant from a political point of view. The physicist notorious slogan let's make America great again. The second is to say I am of blue-collar billionaire who cannot be bought off by special interests. That message hits home by those people who have been left behind. In the last election cycles. It is also getting the natural Democrat voters. Hillary is winning among white-collar whites ` university educated white voters. The first time since 1964. Blue-collar whites in the rust belt, that is where Trump needs to go. It is has only realistic path. There are too many Hispanics and African-Americans elsewhere in the country. There is a theorythat Clinton does really support the TPP, even though she says she doesn't. Obama still supports it and there is a theory that he might still push it through. She doesn't want to have to deal with it after she's an office. I furiously disagree with you. I think given the dynamics within their party that we saw on the first day of the convention, she has taken a moderate running mate ` she hasn't gone with Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. It would be a riot within the Democratic party. I think it is lost on the American team. I think it is a shame it has laid the groundwork for things that might come in the future. AND AFTER ALL THAT TALK OF AMERICAN PRESIDENTS, AFTER THE BREAK, WE LOOK BACK ON THE VISIT OF BILL CLINTON IN 1999, ONLY THE SECOND U.S. PRESIDENT TO MAKE IT THIS FAR DOWN UNDER. YOUR FEEDBACK NOW. JO ON TWITTER SAYS... FRANK MISKASY SAYS... BUT ANDREW ON TWITTER CALLED OUR NAURU COVERAGE BIASED, AND ON LABOUR PARTY DIVISIONS, GRANT ROBERTSON WRITES IN... ONLY TWO AMERICAN PRESIDENTS HAVE VISITED NZ, ALTHOUGH RICHARD NIXON DID VISIT WHEN HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT TO EISENHOWER. LYNDON JOHNSON CAME IN 1966 TO SHORE UP SUPPORT FOR THE VIETNAM WAR, WHILE BILL CLINTON'S VISIT IN 1999, WAS A CHARM OFFENSIVE OF A MUCH MORE PERSONAL KIND. HERE'S DUNCAN GARNER'S REPORT. AIR FORCE 1 CARRYING PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON, EMERGING WITH DAUGHTER, CHELSEA AND MOTHER-IN-LAW, DOROTHY RODHAM. AS HEAD OF STATE, GOVERNOR GENERAL SIR MICHAEL HARDIE BOYS, WAS THE FIRST TO GREET THE PRESIDENT. JENNY SHIPLEY WAS CLEARLY HAPPY TO HAVE BILL CLINTON ON THE GROUND. A WARM MOMENT WITH BURTON SHIPLEY AND DAUGHTER, ANNA; AND HONGIS WITH MAORI CABINET MINISTERS. ALL CHANT HAKA IT WAS A NEW EXPERIENCE FACING UP TO THE HAKA. BILL CLINTON WAS CAPTURED BY THESE FACES, WITH JENNY SHIPLEY BY HIS SIDE AND IN HIS EAR. THEN WITH THE WAY IN A MASSIVE CONVOY. CROWDS LINED THE STREETS AS THE PRESIDENT, IN THE 2ND LIMO, HEADED TOWARDS DOWNTOWN AUCKLAND. HIS SECURITY WAS HARD TO MISS. THE PRESIDENT THEN DROVE PAST THE CROWDS IN SUBURBAN AUCKLAND. DID YOU MANAGE TO SEE MR CLINTON? YES! GOT TO SEE HIM. HE WAVED AT US. (GIGGLES) HE JUST DROVE BY. HE WAS SMILING AND WAVING AND LOOKED VERY TALL IN THE CAR. BUT IT WAS QUITE AMAZING TO GET SO CLOSE SO EASILY. INTO THE CENTRAL CITY, HUNDREDS WAITING FOR BILL CLINTON'S ARRIVAL. SOME GOT A WAVE. AND CLEARLY THERE WERE NO TRAFFIC HASSLES FOR THE PRESIDENT. HE WAS GIVEN A CLEAR RUN THROUGH THE STREETS OF AUCKLAND CITY. HE WILL NOW BE STAYING HERE AT THE STAMFORD PLAZA, ONE OF AUCKLAND CITY'S FLASHEST HOTELS, FOR THE NEXT 3 DAYS. BUT PRESIDENT CLINTON TOOK THE BACK ENTRANCE. ONLOOKERS WERE DISAPPOINTED. MAN: HOW WAS THAT? HOW WAS THAT? SHAME. DIDN'T EVEN SEE HIM. WAKA HUIA IS NEXT. REMEMBER, Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY GLENNA CASALME AND ASHLEE SCHOLEFIELD.