MORENA, GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` POLITICAL EDITOR CORIN DANN'S BEEN AT THE UN IN NEW YORK ALL THIS WEEK, SO FIRST UP, PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY ON THE UN AND SYRIA, HELEN CLARK'S CAMPAIGN AND DONALD TRUMP AND THE BACKLASH AGAINST GLOBALISATION. THERE IS A REAL RISK THERE THAT IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT HE PUSHES A CASE THAT SAYS THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T NEED OTHER COUNTRIES. THEN CORIN'S INTERVIEW WITH HELEN CLARK ` WHY SHE'S STAYING IN THE CONTEST FOR THE UN'S TOP JOB. PLUS ` HER TAKE ON LABOUR'S POOR POLLING. ANY PARTING ADVICE FOR ANDREW LITTLE AS HE TRIES TO NAVIGATE HIS PATH FORWARD? AND THEN WHENA OWEN WRAPS UP THE CONTEST FOR AUCKLAND'S MAYORAL CHAINS. HAS GOFF GOT THIS? IT'S NOT TRUE THAT THE ELECTION IS SEWN UP. DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL ` JOSIE PAGANI, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT; MICHAEL BARNETT, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE AUCKLAND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE; AND STEVE MAHAREY, MASSEY UNIVERSITY VICE CHANCELLOR AND A FORMER LABOUR MINISTER. FIRST TO SYRIA, WHERE A RECENTLY BROKERED CEASEFIRE HAS WELL AND TRULY COLLAPSED AND NEARLY TWO MILLION PEOPLE ARE NOW WITHOUT WATER AFTER FIGHTING RESUMED THIS WEEK. FIERCE STRIKES ON FRIDAY PREVENTED REPAIRS TO A WATER STATION SUPPLYING REBEL-HELD DISTRICTS OF THE CITY. IN RETALIATION, A NEARBY STATION PUMPING WATER TO THE REST OF ALEPPO HAS BEEN SWITCHED OFF. THE SYRIAN ARMY PRESSES ON WITH ITS PUSH TO RETAKE REBEL AREAS, AFTER THE CEASEFIRE COLLAPSED ON MONDAY. PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY DESCRIBED SYRIA AS A BYWORD FOR FAILURE DURING HIS STATEMENT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL THIS WEEK. FAILURE OF THE PARTIES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS TO PUT PEACE AND THE LIVES OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AHEAD OF SELF INTEREST AND ZERO SUM POLITICS; FAILURE TO RESPOND TO THE CRISIS EARLY TO PREVENT THIS TRAGEDY; AND A COLLECTIVE POLITICAL FAILURE, INCLUDING BY THIS COUNCIL, TO DO WHAT MUST BE DONE TO END THE CONFLICT. POLITICAL EDITOR CORIN DANN SPOKE TO JOHN KEY AFTER THE SECURITY COUNCIL MEETING. HE ASKED WHETHER IT WAS TIME TO ACCEPT THAT THE UN CAN'T SOLVE THIS CRISIS. I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK WHAT YOU CAN SAY IS, YES, IT'S BEEN A TERRIBLE SITUATION. WE HAVE CALLED OUT THE SECURITY COUNCIL AND OTHER COUNTRIES AND THE MAJOR PLAYERS FOR FAILING TO RESOLVE THE ISSUES SO FAR. BUT ULTIMATELY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS WILL IT CARRY ON FOREVER? WELL, IF WE ALL BELIEVE IT WILL, THEN SYRIA ULTIMATELY HAS TO END UP AS A FAILED STATE, AND I'M A BIT MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN IT'S GOING TO END UP AS A FAILED STATE. SO AT SOME POINT I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A CEASEFIRE, AND AT SOME POINT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A BIT MORE NORMALITY RETURN. BUT AT THE MOMENT WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS YOU'VE GOT SOME GROUPS LIKE AL-NUSRA, WHO ARE AL-QAEDA'S AFFILIATE, ESSENTIALLY, IN SYRIA. THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE THE END TO THIS BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS TO TRY AND CAUSE CHAOS IN SYRIA SO THAT THEY HAVE A PLACE, A FAILED STATE, TO EFFECTIVELY GROW TERRORISTS AND EXPORT THOSE TO THE WORLD. THAT'S THEIR AIM, ACTUALLY. AND IF WE DO HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THAT AND WE HAVE PERHAPS A NEW PRESIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES, SHOULDN'T IT BE THAT NZ JOINS THE FIGHT AND ACTUALLY GETS ENGAGED IN SYRIA? I DON'T THINK IT'S HUGELY LIKELY. I MEAN, I'VE LEARNT THE HARD WAY TO SAY YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO CONSIDER THOSE THINGS ON THEIR MERITS WHEN THEY HAPPEN, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU LOOK AT IRAQ, WE'RE THERE BECAUSE THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT HAVE ASKED US TO BE THERE. SO WE RUN AN INDEPENDENT FOREIGN POLICY. WE'LL ALWAYS GO AND LOOK AT THINGS ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, AND ULTIMATELY YOU'VE GOT A VERY SERIOUS SITUATION IN SYRIA. YOU'VE GOT 13 MILLION DISPLACED PEOPLE. BUT, I MEAN, AUSTRALIA'S THERE, AREN'T THEY? THEY ARE. THEY WERE INVOLVED IN THAT BOMBING, SO WHY WE NATURALLY ALSO THROW OUR WEIGHT BEHIND THAT, GIVEN YOU'RE TRYING AT THE UN, BUT IT'S NOT WORKING? WELL, FIRSTLY, I THINK OVER TIME IT WILL FUND ENOUGH WORK. I THINK, AS I SAID, RUSSIA AND THE US ARE COMING AT THIS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. IN RUSSIA'S CASE, THEY PROBABLY WANT TO PROLONG ASSAD AND THEY'VE GOT ISSUES IN THE REGION. IN THE UNITED STATES THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE SYRIA AS A FAILED STATE AND THEY CARE A LOT ABOUT THE PLIGHT OF THOSE REFUGEES, WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THE RUSSIANS DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM. THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THEIR PRIMARY FOCUS YET. RUSSIA ALSO` LET'S BE HONEST ` PUTIN WANTS TO BE RELEVANT ON THE WORLD STAGE. HE WANTS TO PROVE HE CAN FIX THINGS AND YOU HAVE TO COME TO MOSCOW TO MAKE THINGS HAPPENS. IT'S ALL PARTLY ABOUT VLADIMIR PUTIN AND HOW HE SEES HIMSELF. BUT THE POINT IS ` I THINK THEY WILL GET TO A SOLUTION IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL, AND THE WORK WE DO AT THE UN CAN ACTUALLY SUPPORT THAT OVER TIME. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND HOW A LOT OF NZERS WILL BE VERY CYNICAL ABOUT THE UNITED NATIONS, AND THE PROBLEM IS THE USE OF THAT VETO, ISN'T IT? WELL, WE'RE CYNICAL OURSELVES ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE THE SECURITY COUNCIL CAN BE WHILE THE VETO SITS THERE, AND THAT'S OUR POINT. BUT REALISTICALLY HOW COULD YOU EVER TAKE AWAY THE VETO FROM THOSE COUNTRIES? THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO GIVE IT UP. OKAY, SO FRANCE AND THE UNITED KINGDOM BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE REFORM. OVER TIME THE POWER OF THE PUBLIC'S VIEW ABOUT A VETO BEING USED WHEN MASS ATROCITIES ARE TAKING PLACE, I THINK THAT CAN GAIN MOMENTUM OVER TIME. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE CHINESE, THE RUSSIANS AND THE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO GIVE UP EASILY, BUT I RECKON OVER TIME IT CAN. NOW, WHEN, HOW LONG A TIMEFRAME, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, LOOK, EVENTUALLY REFORM IS COMING TO THE UNITED NATIONS. IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHEN. ISN'T THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM FOR HELEN CLARK TOO, ISN'T IT? SHE HERSELF HAS SAID SHE'S SEEN AS A STRONG LEADER, YET DOES THE UNITED NATIONS, AND IN PARTICULAR THOSE BIG POWERS, DO THEY REALLY WANT A STRONG LEADER OF THE UNITED NATIONS? WELL, THAT'S ALWAYS A RISK, ISN'T IT, THAT THEY WANT MORE SECRETARY AND LESS GENERAL. THAT'S THE POTENTIAL ARGUMENT. NOW, WE'VE TESTED THAT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN WITH THE LEADERS THAT I TALK TO AND THE P5 LEADERS, AND WE'VE SAID TO THEM WHILE SHE IS A MUCH STRONGER LEADER, WE BELIEVE, THAN MAYBE OTHERS THAT HAVE ASSUMED THE ROLE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN SHE'S VERY CAREFUL. SHE HAS AMAZING UNDERSTANDING. SHE UNDERSTANDS THE DELICATE NATURE OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE PRIME MINISTER. YOU CAN'T JUST SHOOT FROM THE HIP EVERY FIVE SECONDS, BECAUSE IF YOU DO, YOU CAN CAUSE ALL SORTS OF LONG-STANDING ISSUES, AND SO SHE UNDERSTANDS ALL THAT. AND I THINK IN THE END, AGAIN, IF THEY DON'T GET A STRONGER LEADER OVER TIME, IT JUST MAKES THE UNITED NATIONS LOOK MORE INEFFECTIVE. YOU'VE GONE AROUND AND TALKED TO THOSE P5 LEADERS THIS WEEK, SO AT THE END OF THE WEEK, ARE HER CHANCES BETTER NOW THAN THEY WERE? WELL, THEY CERTAINLY HAVEN'T WORSENED. LOOK, THERE'S NO SECRET THAT THERE ARE STRONGLY VESTED INTERESTS AND SOME PEOPLE WANT THE ROTATION SYSTEM TO BE MAINTAINED, AND THE ROTATION SYSTEM ARGUES AN EASTERN EUROPEAN OR A VERY WESTERN EUROPEAN GETTING THE JOB, AND ON THAT BASIS, LIFE IS QUITE CHALLENGING FOR HER. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT DESPITE YOUR BEST EFFORTS, SHE HASN'T REALLY MADE MUCH PROGRESS THIS WEEK? WELL, WE'RE TRYING PRETTY HARD. I MEAN, WILL WE GET THERE? I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, LOOK, WHERE THIS GETS A BIT MORE INTERESTING IS A VETO CAN BE APPLIED AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY GET DROPPED OUT. IN FACT, HELEN CLARK WILL PROBABLY PICK UP VETOES WHEN THEY DO THAT, BUT THEY MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE VETOES THAT CAN'T BE REVERSED. SO INITIALLY YOU MIGHT GET THAT THE FRENCH MIGHT VETO, FOR INSTANCE, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT SAY HER FRENCH-SPEAKING CAPABILITY'S NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND THEN THEY NEGOTIATE OFFLINE. BUT ARE THERE VETOES WHICH ARE JUST INTRACTABLE, WHERE THEY SAY, 'WE WILL NOT HAVE THIS CANDIDATE, AND WE'LL JUST KEEP APPLYING THE VETO'? THAT'S POSSIBLE FOR OTHER CANDIDATES, OF COURSE ALSO FOR HELEN CLARK, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE FOR OTHER CANDIDATES. IF THAT HAPPENS, THEN WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS A COUNTRY THAT MIGHT BE SUPPORTING A CANDIDATE THAT IS NO LONGER A VIABLE OPTION HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHO IS THEIR VIABLE OPTION. SHE'S ALWAYS BEEN THE COMPROMISE CANDIDATE. IF SHE WAS GOING TO WIN, THAT'S ALWAYS THE WAY SHE WAS GOING TO GET THERE. AND I THINK SHE CAN STILL GET THERE ON THAT BASIS. LOOKING AT PRESIDENT OBAMA THIS WEEK AND HIS BIG SPEECH ON REFUGEES, HE CALLED FOR COUNTRIES LIKE NZ TO TAKE MORE REFUGEES. DID THAT EXPOSE NZ A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF HIS CALL FOR DEVELOPED COUNTRIES LIKE NZ, WEALTHY COUNTRIES LIKE NZ, TO TAKE MORE REFUGEES? BECAUSE NZ, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RANKING TABLES AND NOT QUOTA; NUMBERS OF REFUGEES, WE'RE WELL, WELL DOWN THE LIST. WE'RE A MUCH SMALLER COUNTRY, SO` PER CAPITA, THOUGH. YEAH, BUT I LOOKED AT HIS NUMBERS. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT 80,000 COMING INTO THE UNITED STATES. I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RELATIVE POPULATIONS, THEY'RE 321 MILLION PEOPLE. TO ME, THE NUMBERS WEREN'T A MILLION MILES OUT. WE DO A REALLY GOOD JOB WHEN PEOPLE COME TO NZ. WE'RE POURING MONEY INTO CAMPS AND THE LIKES. I MEAN, ISN'T THE REAL ARGUMENT HERE, OF COURSE NZ` NO ONE'S ARGUING NZ COULDN'T PUT UP ITS HAND AND SAY, 'WE'LL TAKE ANOTHER 100 PEOPLE OR ANOTHER 200 PEOPLE, 'WHATEVER THE NUMBER MIGHT BE.' BUT THE QUESTION IS ` IS THAT MORE IMPORTANT OR IS IT MORE IMPORTANT TO SAY THERE ARE POTENTIALLY 13 MILLION DISPLACED PEOPLE, AND IF WE COULD RESOLVE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND IN SYRIA`? BUT THAT TAKES TIME, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMEDIATELY AFFECTING PEOPLE'S LIVES BY GETTING THEM INTO NZ, WHERE THEY CAN BE SAFE. AND I ACCEPT THAT, BUT I JUST GO BACK TO THAT FUNDAMENTAL POINT ` THE UNITED STATES IS TALKING ABOUT TAKING 80,000, MAYBE MOVING TO 110,000. SO EVEN IF YOU ADD UP ALL OF THOSE COUNTRIES, THOSE NUMBERS PALE INTO INSIGNIFICANCE COMPARED TO IF WE COULD ALLOW SYRIA TO RETURN TO NORMALITY OR ENSURE SYRIA RETURNS TO NORMALITY AND GIVE THOSE PEOPLE A GENUINE PATHWAY BACK TO THEIR HOME. YOU DID SAY THIS WEEK THAT POTENTIALLY NZ COULD TAKE MORE REFUGEES. WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? WHAT WOULD IT MEAN? MORE SYRIANS? WELL, AT THE MOMENT WHAT'S HAPPENED IS WE'VE INCREASED THE QUOTA FROM 750 TO 1000, AND WE'VE GOT THE SPECIAL QUOTA OF SYRIANS THAT WE'RE TAKING. LOOK, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE FOR US TO TAKE MORE. MORE SYRIANS? YEAH, I MEAN, THE UNITED NATIONS, THE PROGRAMME THAT WE'RE PART OF, WHICH IS PART OF THAT QUOTA, UNHCR, ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE US GOING IN THERE AND SAYING, 'WE WANT SYRIANS OR WE WANT THIS.' THEIR ARGUMENT IS THE PLIGHT OF A REFUGEE IN A CAMP IN DARFUR` THEY'RE THE REFUGEE CRISIS, THOUGH, AREN'T THEY? SO THAT'S WHERE WE'LL TAKE THEM. WELL, OBAMA IN HIS COMMENTS HIMSELF ACTUALLY SAID, LOOK, THERE ARE 21 MILLION REFUGEES AROUND THE WORLD, AND THEY BASICALLY COME FROM THREE REALLY BIG AREAS, SO SYRIA'S ONE BIG PART OF THAT. IT'S THE MOST TOP OF MIND, BUT IF YOU'RE AT A CAMP IN DARFUR, YOU PROBABLY THINK YOUR PLIGHT IS GENUINELY JUST AS BAD. I WONDER IF THERE ARE POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS HERE. THERE ARE POLITICAL PARTIES IN NZ THAT HAVE RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT SYRIANS AND THE NEED FOR TIGHTER SCREENING OF REFUGEES AND ASYLUM-SEEKERS. IS THAT A FACTOR FOR YOU? WELL, I THINK THERE'S A HAPPY MEDIUM IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU TAKE. SO I THINK NZERS ARE GENEROUS PEOPLE, THEY'RE OPEN-HEARTED, AND THEY WANT TO HELP. THEY'RE HEARING DONALD TRUMP, AREN'T THEY? WELL, I THINK THEY WOULD GENERALLY SAY WE'VE GOT IT ABOUT RIGHT. SOME WOULD SAY YOU COULD TAKE A FEW MORE. OF COURSE, SOME WOULD SAY TAKE A FEW LESS. THEY WANT CONFIDENCE THAT OUR SYSTEMS VET PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND THAT THEY'RE GENUINE REFUGEES. BUT MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN NZ TAKE REFUGEES OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN NZ. SO I'M NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT THAT. LOOK, IF THE NUMBERS WERE HUGE, AS YOU'VE SEEN IN GERMANY` WHETHER PEOPLE WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT, IN GERMANY THOSE NUMBERS AND THE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT HAVE FALLEN DRAMATICALLY BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF REFUGEES HAS BEEN MUCH LARGER THAN PROBABLY ON BALANCE THE GERMAN PUBLIC ARE HAPPY WITH. BUT THAT'S NOT THE SITUATION IN NZ. YOU TALKED ABOUT PROTECTIONISM IN YOUR SPEECH TO THE UN. YOU WERE REALLY TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, WEREN'T YOU? DONALD TRUMP WAS THE DRIVING FORCE FOR THAT? WELL, HE'S MORE VOCAL THAN THAT, AND THE BASE HE'S TRYING TO TAP INTO ARE THE DISAFFECTED WORKERS OF MICHIGAN OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. SO THERE IS A REAL RISK THERE THAT HE, IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT, HE PUSHES THE CASE THAT SAYS THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T NEED OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE IT'S 321 MILLION PEOPLE; IT'S A MASSIVE CONSUMER BASE; ONE IN FOUR DOLLARS SPENT IN ANY HOUSEHOLD IN THE WORLD SPENT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. AND SO YOU CAN SUPERFICIALLY MAKE THAT CASE. YEAH, WE DO WORRY, BUT MIND YOU, HILLARY CLINTON'S ALSO SAYING SOME ANTI-TRADE` BUT I WONDER IF IT'S DEEPER THAN THAT AND WE ARE SEEING THOSE SIMILAR SENTIMENTS IN NZ. INEQUALITY ` THOSE WITHOUT ASSETS NOT GETTING AHEAD. ISN'T THAT WHAT IS DRIVING THE BACKLASH AGAINST GLOBALISATION? OF COURSE THERE WILL BE SOME NZERS WHO WOULD SAY, 'I AGREE WITH DONALD TRUMP,' AND THEY WOULD SAY, 'WINSTON PETERS TALKS ABOUT AND THAT SORT OF STUFF,' AND THEY WOULD SAY, 'THAT'S WHY WE SUPPORT HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THE WORLD.' BUT EQUALLY, THOUGH, I THINK YOU LOOK THE MASS OF NZERS, AND THE MASS OF NZERS, I RECKON, AS A GENERAL RULE SAY WHEN NZ'S ENGAGED ON A GLOBAL STAGE, WHEN IT HAS ALL OF THOSE CONSUMERS TO SELL THINGS TO AND WHEN IT'S PART OF A GLOBAL WORLD, IT'S DOING BETTER. AND, YOU SEE, THIS IS THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU DO WHAT ARGUABLY TRUMP IS SORT OF SAYING, WHICH IS JUST MAKE AMERICA JUST FOCUS ON ITSELF, IS THAT OF COURSE YOU CAN PUT UP PROTECTIONIST BARRIERS, BUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS TO YOUR COMPANIES IS THAT THEY BECOME A BIT FAT AND HAPPY. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT COMPETITION, BECAUSE IT'S NOT THERE. AND THEN IN THE END, THE LONG-TERM, YOU'RE MUCH WEAKER. I'D ARGUE THAT PERHAPS IT'S A WIDER SENTIMENT THAN THAT AND THAT IT'S DEEPER AND WE'RE SEEING IT IN NZ AS WELL. YEAH, BUT I THINK` WELL, FIRSTLY, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHANGES THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE WORLD, AND SOCIAL MEDIA PROVIDES OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIFFERENT SORT OF DEBATES, AND THERE'S A RANGE OF DIFFERENT THINGS. BUT THE ONE DIFFERENCE IN NZ, I THINK, COMPARED TO, SAY, EVEN A COUNTRY LIKE THE UNITED STATES, IS NZ HAS VERY COMPREHENSIVE SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE. SO IF YOU EARN 55,000 OR LESS AND YOU'VE GOT TWO KIDS IN NZ, YOU PAY ZERO TAX BECAUSE WORKING FOR FAMILIES GIVES YOU THE MONEY BACK. TURN 65, WE GIVE YOU SUPERANNUATION. HEALTHCARE'S LARGELY FREE; SO IS EDUCATION. NOW, OF COURSE, THERE ARE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT PEOPLE MAKE, BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT'S FREE. IF YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, THERE'S SUPPORT IN NZ. YOU COME TO THE UNITED STATES, YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, DESPITE OBAMACARE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, YOUR KIDS AREN'T NECESSARILY GOING TO COLLEGE, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY GETTING PRETTY GOOD MEDICAL SUPPORT, THERE IS NOT SUPERANNUATION IN THE SAME WAY. EVEN IN AUSTRALIA THOSE THINGS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. BUT IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT, I THINK, FROM THE SORT OF 99% TO 1% DEBATE. FINALLY, PRIME MINISTER, YOU'VE BEEN HERE AT THE UN THIS WEEK ` A BIG, HIGH WATERMARK FOR YOU IN THIS GOVERNMENT. HAVE YOU STARTED TO GIVE THINKING TO WHAT YOU WOULD DO NEXT AFTER YOU'RE PRIME MINISTER, I MEAN SHOULD YOU LOSE AT NEXT ELECTION OR SHOULD YOU LEAVE AT SOME POINT? NO, I HAVEN'T, BUT I CAN TELL YOU NOW IT WON'T BE AT THE UNITED NATIONS AND IT WON'T BE AS AN AMBASSADOR FOR NZ, THOSE KINDS OF TRADITIONAL PATHS THAT YOU'VE SEEN FORMER PRIME MINISTERS GO DOWN, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT MY AREA OF INTEREST AND I DON'T THINK IT'S MY AREA OF SPECIALITY. SO, YEAH, WE'LL HAVE ELECTIONS AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL WIN THEM, BUT, YEAH, THE POINT IS, OF COURSE, BY DEFINITION EVERY POLITICAL CAREER AT SOME POINT ENDS. BUT YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOOD AT AND WHAT MAYBE YOU'RE NOT AND MAYBE WHERE YOU THINK YOU'LL WANT TO DEPLOY YOUR TALENTS, AND FOR ME I DON'T WANT TO BE THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS. I DON'T WANT TO BE NZ'S AMBASSADOR IN WASHINGTON. I WANT TO BE PRIME MINISTER AND THAT'S MY FOCUS, BUT I DON'T WANT THE OTHER THINGS. AND WILL YOU SEE OUT ANOTHER THREE YEARS IF YOU DO WIN THE NEXT ELECTION? THAT'S THE INTENTION. I MEAN MY INTENTION IS TO STAY. AND IF I'M RUNNING, I'M STAYING, SO THAT'S MY INTENTION. KEEN TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT JOHN KEY HAD TO SAY. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQANDA YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. CORIN'S INTERVIEW WITH HELEN CLARK IS NEXT. WHY SHE'S DETERMINED TO STAY IN THE CONTEST FOR THE UN'S TOP JOB. AND HER ADVICE FOR ANDREW LITTLE, AS LABOUR LANGUISHES IN THE POLLS. NOW, FIRST TO DISCUSS JOHN KEY'S BIG STAR AT THE UN, LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL ` JOSIE PAGANI, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT. MICHAEL BARNETT, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE AUCKLAND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. AND STEVE MAHAREY, MASSEY UNIVERSITY VICE CHANCELLOR AND A FORMER LABOUR MINISTER. What did you make of the UN on Syria? I just got back from China about a week ago. I have promoted New Zealand universitiesin a place like China. What they are doing is remarkable, how opens doors for us. Good to see what he is doing around Syria. He is right. It is going to be incredibly difficult to resolve this. He is also right that what is the alternative? Do you not have the UN or have people turned up to these kinds of fora? I think he has done well this week. Would people listen to something John Key says? It would be easy to be cynical. New Zealanders aim high. One diplomat said New Zealand needs to realise the answer to every world problem is not New Zealand. I think that cynicism is misplaced. We have always aimed high. Like when we said we should do something to prevent the genocide in Rwanda. John Key has called out Syria. We were seen to be a small player punching a bit too much above our weight. We called out and condemned attacks against hospitals and humanitarian workers. It is the right thing to have done. They have made this the focus. We're not going to put boots on the ground. With those two things behind him, does that somewhat weak and what he has said? He said he is cynical. I am cynical. If you look at the consequences they are death and mayhem in a problem nobody thinks they can fix. We are working on a structure that was put in place in the 1940s. It is not going to deliver the sort of answer we want. We need a structure that is going to give us the answers we need now. I disagree with that. The UN came about after the Second World War. We have had fewer wars since that. The Labour leader played a strong role in trying to prevent the veto. We have been chipping away at this for a long time. The UN was 50 countries when it started. It is now about 193. The UN has shepherded in the era of decolonisation and human rights. We have a different sort of war now. We have terrorism and the sort of conflict we can't manage and the displacement of people. One of the roles we can play, like Norway, a small democracy that is transparent. Seen on the world stage is nonthreatening. We can't put boots on the ground or fly jets across Syria. But we can sit people down. The irony is many would sayyou are dealing with not so honest brokers. They are all nuclear powers. Are we giving a different answer or a different response? No. The UN has grown. There are a lot of smaller states. The pressure will come from the general assembly. They have a mandate to push back on the security council. New Zealand can be proud of the positions that has taken over a number of years. One is advocating for this new principle which is to protect. We have a responsibility to stop crimes against humanity, to stop genocide. I look at Syria and say surely, there are crimes against humanity happening there, surely the time to pull out this principle of responsibility to protect innocent civilians and workers, it is the time to do that. What did you take from his thoughts on globalisation? It is complex. He is saying this is a open society. Some of the other big issues are things like identity. Culture is very important to people. Am I an English person or a my open to being part of the big wide world? What is sweeping the world is a complete realignment of the way people think about themselves, the role in the world, the a place in the world. That is what Trump has tapped into. Politics are reshaping now. Helen Clark will touch on that a little bit later on the programme. Are we reading between the lines it Trump has accepted the TPP a is a goneburger? I agree that there is a culture thing going on. I think that will dominate in the way people think and vote in the future. I kind of disagree with you. I think the shift to political parties with you are open to the world or whether you find the world scary and threatening, I think there are some on the left and some on the right who feel that way. Globalisation is a massive change. We have to be very strong in advocating for those who feel like they are losing out in the short-term. I want your take on what hesaid for his plans in the future not doing the diplomat gig. Wise. They are all consuming. I think he will do a great job doing something else. AS WE'VE JUST HEARD FROM JOHN KEY, HELEN CLARK STILL HAS HER BACKERS, AND SHE'S NOT GIVING UP ON HER CAMPAIGN FOR THE UN'S TOP JOB, DESPITE HER POOR SHOWING IN THE SECRET BALLOTS SO FAR. MS CLARK COMPARED THE RACE TO THE SHOOT OUT AT THE OK CORRAL ` THE FAMOUS GUN BATTLE BETWEEN LAWMEN AND A GANG OF OUTLAWS IN AMERICA'S WILD WEST, AND WHEN CORIN MET UP WITH HER IN NEW YORK THIS WEEK, HE ASKED WHAT THAT MEANT FOR HER CHANCES. WELL, LOOK, THERE'S A PACK. THERE'S A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES WHO ARE DOING BIT BETTER THAN OTHERS, BUT THEN THERE'S A GROUP THAT ARE QUITE CLOSELY BUNCHED. AND THE ISSUE HAS BEEN TO KEEP STANDING AND TO SUSTAIN THE LEVEL OF SUPPORT, WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN THE COLOURED BALLOTS COME OUT, WHERE PERMANENT MEMBERS INDICATE THEIR VETOES, TO STILL BE STANDING FOR THAT TIME. ARE THE BIG PLAYERS, THE BIG VETO PLAYERS, ARE THEY GOING TO VETO YOU? WE DON'T KNOW OF ANY HARD VETO. WHAT WE KNOW FROM PREVIOUS SELECTIONS OF SECRETARY GENERALS IS THAT THE CARDS ARE PLAYED HERE AND THERE, SOMETIMES THE START OF THE NEGOTIATION OR A DISCUSSION; SOMETIMES THEY'RE THE END GAME. SO A LOT IS UNKNOWN ABOUT HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE SUPPORT THAT YOU'VE BEEN GETTING FROM THE NZ GOVERNMENT AND JOHN KEY? TOTAL SUPPORT FROM THE NZ GOVERNMENT, FROM THE PRIME MINISTER DOWN. MURRAY MCCULLY HAS ALSO BEEN EXTREMELY ACTIVE, THE WHOLE FOREIGN MINISTRY AND, OF COURSE, THE GREAT STADIUM OF KIWIS AT HOME, WHERE THERE'S BEEN INCREDIBLE SUPPORT IN SO MANY WAYS. LOOK, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM HOME, BUT NOT EVERYBODY HAS SUPPORTED YOU. THE MAORI PARTY HAS COME OUT AND SAID THAT IT DOESN'T BACK YOUR CANDIDACY ALL THESE YEARS ON FROM THAT ISSUE OF THE FORESHORE AND SEABED. IS THAT DISAPPOINTING FOR YOU? WELL, THEY FLIP-FLOPPED, DIDN'T THEY, SO, LOOK, IT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE IN THIS CONTEST. YOU NEVER EXPECT 100% SUPPORT FOR ANYTHING. I THINK THAT THE HIGH LEVEL OF SUPPORT AND INTEREST FROM KIWIS HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL. I JUST WONDER WHETHER YOU WERE HURT BY THAT AND WHETHER THAT HURT YOUR CHANCES. I MEAN, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF COUNTRIES WITH INDIGENOUS GROUPS. I MEAN, THEY MIGHT WELL VOTE AGAINST YOU BECAUSE OF THAT. NO, I DON'T THINK IT REGISTERED ON THE RICHTER SCALE HERE, AND, OF COURSE, MAORI VOTERS ARE FOUND AMONG THE FOLLOWERS OF ALL POLITICAL PARTIES, NOT LEAST THE ONE THAT I USED TO BE IN, SO THEY'RE PROMINENTLY ASSOCIATED WITH MYSELF. SO WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR CHANCES AT THE MOMENT? LOOK, I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO INTO PROBABILITIES. THIS IS A VERY TOUGH GEOPOLITICAL CONTEST. THERE ARE MANY FACTORS IN IT. ONE SHOULD NOT TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY ABOUT ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THIS CONTEST, BECAUSE I BELIEVE I HAVE WIDESPREAD RESPECT WITHIN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. THE ISSUE'S GOING TO BE IS IT THE TIME FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME FROM A REGION OF THE WORLD WHICH HAS NEVER HAD A SECRETARY GENERAL BUT HASN'T EVER STAKED A CLAIM BEFORE? IS IT TIME TO MOVE FROM THE TRADITIONAL LOW DIPLOMATIC PROFILE OF APPOINTEES TO SOMEONE WITH A LEADER PROFILE LIKE MYSELF? THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT THE SECURITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE THINKING ABOUT. YOU YOURSELF HAVE ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT MAYBE THE UN DOESN'T WANT A STRONG, CAPABLE LEADER. IS THAT HURTING YOUR CHANCES THAT YOU'RE SEEN AS PERHAPS TOO MUCH OF A REFORMER? WELL, THE TRADITIONAL PROFILE IS THE LOW-KEY DIPLOMATIC, BUT I THINK MANY PEOPLE LOOK AT THE CHALLENGES THE WORLD IS FACING; THEY SAY THE UN ACTUALLY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE DOING SO WELL ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS, PARTICULARLY PEACE AND SECURITY. SO IS IT TIME TO BRING IN SOMEONE WITH LEADERSHIP SKILLS, WITH THE ROLODEX CREATED FROM YEARS OF OPERATING AT A TOP LEADER LEVEL TO LEAD THE ORGANISATION TO WORK WITH THE MEMBER STATES TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE? IF YOU LOOK AT SYRIA THIS WEEK, THE UN LOOKS INEFFECTUAL. WHERE IS THE UN SECRETARY GENERAL ON THIS ISSUE? WHAT CAN THEY DO? WHAT ARE THEY DOING? WELL, I THINK THERE PROBABLY IS MORE SPACE FOR THE UN IN A NUMBER OF THE CRISES AND NOT JUST AT THE POINT OF THE CRISIS OR SIX YEARS INTO A CRISIS, AS WE'RE HEADING FOR WITH SYRIA. IT REALLY GOES BACK TO THE WORK THE UN CAN DO TO MOBILISE SUPPORT FOR BUILDING MORE PEACEFUL, MORE INCLUSIVE SOCIETIES. MOST OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE ENDED UP ON THAT SECURITY COUNCIL AGENDA ARE FUNDAMENTALLY PROBLEMS OF DEVELOPMENT, OF DEVELOPING THE KIND OF INSTITUTIONS AND SOCIETY WHICH WILL TALK ITS DIFFERENCES OUT AND NOT FIGHT THEM OUT. HERE'S THE REALLY INTERESTING THING, THOUGH ` WE ARE ENTERING A PHASE, AREN'T WE, WHERE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ARE SEEING A REAL BACKLASH FROM MIDDLE CLASS, FROM LOWER WORKING CLASS WHO AREN'T GETTING AHEAD IN THIS AGE OF GLOBALISATION. ARE WE GOING TO SEE THIS RETURN TO PROTECTIONISM, ANTI-MIGRANT SENTIMENT? IT'S A REAL WORRY, ISN'T IT? I THINK WE NEED LEADERSHIP ON THESE ISSUES. MIGRANTS ARE A SOURCE OF WEALTH BOTH TO THE COUNTRIES FROM WHICH THEY COME, BECAUSE REMITTANCES ARE SO IMPORTANT, AND TO THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE COMING TO. THE TRUTH IS THAT MANY DEVELOPED COUNTRIES HAVE DEMOGRAPHICS WHICH ARE AGEING VERY VERY RAPIDLY. THEY NEED NEW PEOPLE IN THE WORKFORCE. SO LEADERS HAVE TO STEP UP AND MAKE THESE POINTS, THAT MIGRATION CAN BE GOOD FOR BOTH THE SOURCE AND THE RECEIVING COUNTRIES. LOOK AT NZ. EVEN THE LABOUR PARTY IN NZ IS STARTING TO QUESTION THE NUMBERS AROUND MIGRATION AND PUSH THAT ISSUE STRONGLY. IT IS REALLY STARTING TO TAKE HOLD IN NZ. WELL, WE'RE A COUNTRY FOUNDED ON MIGRATION, SINCE THE GREAT CANOES CAME DOWN FROM POLYNESIA. WE WERE THE LAST SIGNIFICANT LAND MASS ON EARTH TO BE POPULATED BY HUMAN BEINGS, BUT ONCE WE STARTED COMING, WE KEPT COMING ACROSS THE RICH DIVERSITY OF HUMANKIND. SO IS NZ THE BETTER FOR MIGRATION? OF COURSE IT IS. IT IS THE BETTER FOR HAVING ACCEPTED REFUGEES? OF COURSE IT IS. WOULD ITS DEVELOPMENT HAVE STALLED IF IT HADN'T HAD MIGRANTS? OF COURSE IT WOULD. LET'S MAKE THE LEADERSHIP CASE FOR THIS. ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THE LABOUR PARTY IN NZ, FOR EXAMPLE, IS STARTING TO RAISE THOSE ISSUES ABOUT MIGRATION? I'VE NO IDEA WHAT THE LEVEL IS. I'VE NO IDEA WHAT ANY POLITICAL PARTY IS SAYING ABOUT IT. BUT THE GENERAL MESSAGE? BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WITHOUT QUESTION MIGRANTS HAVE BEEN AN ASSET TO NZ. I MEAN, THE OTHER FACTOR WE'VE GOT, OF COURSE, IS DONALD TRUMP, BREXIT AND THAT SENTIMENT THAT IS RISING AROUND THE WORLD, THAT DISSATISFACTION, A LOT OF THE BLAME GOING TOWARDS MIGRANTS. HOW DO YOU COPE WITH THAT? AGAIN, I THINK YOU HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE FACTS, THAT MIGRANTS COME TO FILL PLACES IN THE WORKFORCE WHERE OFTEN THERE ISN'T THE LOCAL LABOUR SUPPLY. IN NZ, THE MIGRANT SYSTEM HAS LONG BEEN SKEWED TOWARDS POINTS AROUND SKILLS AND OTHER FACTORS, SO IT'S BEEN A CALIBRATED SYSTEM. IN THIS COUNTRY, A LOT OF THE VERY POORLY PAID SERVICE JOBS ARE DONE BY MIGRANTS. I REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH A PROMINENT AMERICAN BUSINESS LEADER WHEN I WAS PRIME MINISTER. HE SAID, 'I JUST HOPE THEY DON'T SEND THE MIGRANTS HOME. HOW WOULD WE COPE? 'WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE WORKFORCE HERE.' THIS IS THE REALITY. SHOULD NZERS BE WORRIED ABOUT A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY? I WOULDN'T EVEN WANT TO COMMENT ON THE AMERICAN CAMPAIGN. THERE'S ALWAYS A TRACK WHEN WE'RE SO EXPOSED TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AMERICAN POLITICS, PROBABLY HEARING MORE ABOUT IT THAN WE ARE ABOUT OUR OWN SOCIETY AT THE MOMENT AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE EVERYBODY GETS PERSONALLY INVOLVED, BUT I HAVE TO KEEP A HIGH LEVEL OF DETACHMENT. FAIR ENOUGH. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE STATE OF SOCIAL PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT AROUND THE WORLD AT THE MOMENT? HOW DOES IT MOVE FORWARD? WELL, I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN PEOPLE PREPARED TO WRITE OFF POLITICAL MOVEMENTS OR PARTIES, BUT WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. PEOPLE TRY SOMETHING FOR A WHILE; IT DOESN'T WORK; THEY TRY SOMETHING ELSE. THEY TRY SOMETHING; THEY GET SICK OF IT; THEY TRY SOMETHING ELSE. THE TRUTH IS THAT THE MODERN POLITICS IN DEMOCRATIC SOCIETIES HAS BECOME A BIT LIKE A CONSUMER EXERCISE. YOU TRY SOMETHING; YOU TRY SOMETHING ELSE. I THINK PARTIES JUST HAVE TO ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES AND KEEP PUTTING OUT POLICY THAT THEY THINK WILL BE GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY AND DO THEIR BEST TO SELL IT. BUT I JUST WONDER IS THE LEFT REALLY A BROAD CHURCH ANY MORE? FOR EXAMPLE, YOU MANAGED TO RUN A BROAD CHURCH WHEN YOU WERE LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY. HOW NECESSARY IS THAT? OH YES, IT'S POSSIBLE. NECESSARY? AND IT'S NECESSARY, BECAUSE TO WIN AN ELECTION IN NZ OR PROBABLY ANY WESTERN SOCIETY, YOU MUST COMMAND THE CENTRE GROUND. YOU HAVE YOUR STRONG CORE OF SUPPORTERS, BUT YOU MUST GET THE CENTRE GROUND VOTERS, AND I THINK I WAS SUCCESSFUL IN THAT FOR QUITE A LOT OF YEARS. ANY PARTING ADVICE FOR ANDREW LITTLE AS HE TRIES TO NAVIGATE HIS PATH FORWARD? WELL, MY ADVICE IS JUST GET OUT, BE YOURSELF AND PROMOTE THE POLICIES THAT YOU REALLY THINK WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR NZ. STAY WITH US. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT INTERVIEW WITH HELEN CLARK, WHEN WE RETURN AFTER THE BREAK. HELEN CLARK GAVE SOME ADVICE TO ANDREW LITTLE AT THE END OF OUR LAST SEGMENT, BUT ARGUABLY SOMEONE ELSE HE COULD DRAW INSPIRATION FROM IS JEREMY CORBYN, WHO'S INCREASED HIS MANDATE TO LEAD BRITAIN'S LABOUR PARTY IN A BITTER LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE. IN RESULTS OUT OVERNIGHT, CORBYN GAINED 61.8% OF THE MEMBERSHIP'S VOTE, TROUNCING HIS RIVAL OWEN SMITH. THE LEADERSHIP CONTEST WAS FRAUGHT WITH ONLINE NAME-CALLING AND ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE, BUT JEREMY CORBYN SAYS THAT'S IN NOW IN THE PAST. WE HAVE MUCH MORE IN COMMON THAN THAT WHICH DIVIDES US. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED` AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, LET'S WIPE THAT SLATE CLEAN FROM TODAY AND GET ON WITH THE WORK WE'VE GOT TO DO AS A PARTY TOGETHER. MORE THAN A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE HAVE JOINED THE PARTY IN THE LAST YEAR. Your reaction to that? Here's the last man standing after Brexit. It was clear that he was going to Win. But he hasn't got the support and the population. Over 70% wouldn't vote for hgim. So they will lose the next election. It is not his policies, it is his policies that make him unelectable. It is not an accident that they have ended up on the fringes. It is a series of bad policies and doubling down on failure. Now to Helen Clark and the top job in the UN. She seems to be finishing in the middle of the pack. It is not over yet, and the person who gets it has to be tough. So folding now wouldn't be a good strategy, many people will turn to her if the big powers can't get who they want. She is a lot stacked against. Not only the rotation by being the first woman. I go back to the start of the programme, where Steve said it was good for New Zealand for a branding perspective. Key and Clark operating together is great row image on the marketplace. So she needs to stay there. New Zealanders go in and stay there till the end. Her brand is strong and independent and standing up to bullies. That is a good New Zealand story. And that helps us internationally being able to stand up for principles. And that will help us in Asia. John key described moon as more secretary rather than general. Does the UN want a strong leader? And she may be a good compromise candidate. Many people like her because her strength can bring people together. People think she will dominate, and I think that is what they need. She knows that changes needed. And people know that she can bring a change. What is John key doing for her case? As a former opponent. I think it did a few powerful things. He kept saying that he was the opposition and he is supporting her. And that is quite clever. He took a strong position on the Security Council. And the Russians could punish him, but he made it very clear that he is her opposition to create some space. But standing up for her was an amazing thing to do. And that will resonate around the world. As she is both a conciliator and Tough. This is about who is best for the job. And whose opinion is respected. I thought it was great. I gave him 10 out of 10. This is our style such as McKinnon. We do very well in the frame of world politics. And I think this is happening. McCully has been on the road doing this as well. And this comes back to the role we can play in the world. We are an honest broker. A lot has been said about being a reformer and her points on Donald Trump She is diplomatic. It is almost about playing to an audience. And unfortunately you need to compromise and the compromise is not going to see the pace required to change. If you watch the language of Key and Clark, it's about diplomacy and not urgent change. Her stance on protectionism is no surprise. I thought it was interesting that she was pro-immigration. And that is different to pro-refugee. And she thinks New Zealand could do better. We only 90 on the table. We could do a lot more. And only a few countries are doing more. And we're not doing our bit. Her position on protectionism goes back to our discussion on open close iis a discussion changing from left to right. Going back to the John key interview, he made it very clear about the German refugee numbers and how it's hurting Angela Merkel in the polls. This may not be a popular decision for John key to do. This is a focus group decision government. They know what New Zealanders want and the tolerance. Angela Merkel might go down in history as rescuing the German economy, as they need workers, but she may lose the government in the short-term. The national government has tried a balanced approach. And New Zealanders have reacted in a way that suggests they are right. John key knows that they need migrants, the right migrants, and New Zealand's need them coming and matched the skills. And if that could work refugees, then that might deliver a more balanced message. The message of skills and growth is what New Zealand needs. She is pro open, and people who are looking around the world who want progress is that pro open is the place to be, but the policy doesn't work for enough people. The need to make that work for the global economy. There needs to be better wages and access to services. And she is using that and her stance of secretary general. Your take on her advice to Andrew little it is 10 years since Labour in New Zealand hhas been ahead in the polls. And there are two things you have to get right in politics. Yet know what people are struggling with. And work out how to make their lives better. So anything that is not doing that and might be value gesture politics such as anti-sugar, flag, she is saying in a coded way to discard that and focus on the core Labour message and how the make people's lives better. When progressive movements get that right, they are popular and it is not about just going to the centre. Those always effective for people. BACK TO LOCAL POLITICS AFTER THE BREAK ` AND WHENA OWEN LOOKS AT THE ELECTION FOR AUCKLAND MAYOR ` WHY EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT GOFF. PHIL'S WEARING A BLUE` YOU KNOW BLUE SIGNAGE NOW, AND HE'S TRYING TO SAY HE'S NOT` HE'S, YOU KNOW, AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE. REALLY? I MEAN, WHO ARE YOU FOOLING HERE. SERIOUSLY? COME ON. IN UNDER A FORTNIGHT, WE'LL KNOW WHO OUR NEW CROP OF MAYORS WILL BE. AUCKLAND'S MAYORALTY RACE HASN'T GOT ANYONE ON THE EDGE OF THEIR SEATS, WITH PHIL GOFF TIPPED TO TAKE THE JOB FROM THE START. ONE OF HIS RIVALS HAS EVEN SAID IT. SOME ON THE SIDELINES EVEN INSIST GOFF IS ALREADY IN HIS NEW ROLE ` PLANNING AND TALKING TO CABINET MINISTERS ` BUT ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN, AND IN THE SPIRIT OF DEMOCRACY, WHENA OWEN WENT OUT AND ABOUT WITH THE TOP CANDIDATES. CHOKED UP ROADS, A HOUSING NIGHTMARE, SKY-HIGH DEBT AND $20B TO FIND FOR A CENTRAL TRANSPORT PROJECT. WHO'D WANT THE JOB OF AN AUCKLAND MAYOR? WELL, 19 AUCKLANDERS DO. HERE ARE THE TOP FIVE ACCORDING TO A RECENT POLL, WHICH PUT PHIL GOFF WAY OUT IN FRONT AT 38%, HIS NEAREST RIVAL, VIC CRONE, AT 11%. IT IS NOT TRUE THAT THE ELECTION IS SEWN UP. NO POLL COUNTS OTHER THAN THE ONE WHERE YOU COUNT THE VOTING PAPERS OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO VOTE. YEAH, RIGHT, SAYS LONG-TIME RIGHT-WING COMMENTATOR MATTHEW HOOTON. THE ELECTION IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION. PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS. MANY PEOPLE WILL, OF COURSE, HAVE VOTED BY NOW. GOFF'S PROBABLY ALREADY WON. MY NAME'S MARK THOMAS. I'M STANDING TO BE THE NEXT MAYOR OF AUCKLAND. YES, HE IS STILL STANDING, BUT LAST WEEK CENTRE-RIGHT CANDIDATE MARK THOMAS TOLD AUCKLANDERS TO STOP PRETENDING. CLEARLY, WE'VE GOT ONE CANDIDATE WHO'S VERY WELL KNOWN ` PHIL GOFF. AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IS I JUST WANT TO ENCOURAGE AUCKLANDERS TO FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT THE WAY THE POLLS ARE GOING, IT'S LIKELY HE'LL BE MAYOR. I'D RATHER THEY VOTED FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME, WHO HAD BOTH BUSINESS EXPERIENCE AND COUNCIL EXPERIENCE. YOU CAN WHAT IF SO MANY THINGS IN TERMS OF CAMPAIGNS. IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND I HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME AND THE CARDS IN TERMS OF HOW THEY'RE DEALT. JOHN! GOOD LUCK! HEY, THANK YOU, MAN. THANK YOU. THAT'S GREAT. JOHN PALINO IS NOW THE THIRD RANKED IN THE UNOFFICIAL POLLS. WE NEED TO GROW OUR EXISTING FOUR CITY CENTRES. HE'S PUSHING FOUR DECENTRALISED CBDS AND A NEW SATELLITE CITY. SO YOU'RE FIGHTING THIS TO THE END, AREN'T YOU? OH, ABSOLUTELY. WHY NOT? I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO'S GOT REALLY CONCRETE POLICIES. PHIL DOES NOT HAVE ANY POLICIES. PHIL HAS COME OUT, AND HE'S ACTUALLY SAID NOTHING FOR THE FIRST SIX MONTHS. AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'S STARTING TO SAY THINGS. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S SAYING? HE'S SAYING MY POLICIES. YOU'D BE PROUD TO LIVE ON A STREET LIKE THIS. HOUSING ` MORE HOUSING, CHEAPER HOUSING ` IS THE CITY'S MOST PRESSING ISSUE, ALONG WITH TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE. WITH DETAILS OF THE AUCKLAND TRANSPORT ALIGNMENT PROJECT JUST CONFIRMED,... HOW'S YOUR MORNING BEEN? ...GOFF HAS ALREADY BEEN PART OF THE CONVERSATION. HE'S ALREADY WORKING AS IF HE WERE MAYOR. I'VE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH SIMON BRIDGES, AND I'VE FOUND HIM A REASONABLE PERSON TO DEAL WITH. I THINK WE CAN WORK TOGETHER. I WILL WORK WELL... I'M CONFIDENT WITH EITHER MAYOR. < WOULD YOU WORK WELL WITH PHIL GOFF? I THINK WE CAN MAKE IT WORK WITH WHOEVER THAT CANDIDATE IS. THEY SAY YOU'RE ALREADY WORKING WITH PHIL GOFF. WELL, I'M WORKING WITH THE CANDIDATES, YEAH. THEY ARE ALSO, FOR APPEARANCE'S SAKE, TALKING TO THE OTHER CANDIDATES, BUT ALREADY THERE IS A WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PHIL GOFF AND CENTRAL GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT IS PRAGMATIC AND KNOWS THAT HE IS GOING TO BE THE MAYOR. AND THAT'S WHY NONE OF THE OTHERS HAD BEEN ENDORSED BY JOHN KEY. HE IS STANDING AS AN INDEPENDENT, > BUT WE KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, HIS LABOUR AFFILIATIONS. > WOULD IT HAVE BEEN EASIER IF THERE WAS ONE CENTRE-RIGHT CANDIDATE > UP AGAINST PHIL GOFF? > HE HAS BEEN LAUNCHING THE LABOUR CAMPAIGNS FOR AUCKLAND COUNCIL ALL AROUND THE REGION. SO, LOOK, HE IS THE LABOUR CANDIDATE, REALLY, FOR MAYORALTY. PHIL'S WEARING A BLUE SIGNAGE NOW AND ALL. HE'S TRYING TO SAY HE'S INDEPENDENT. REALLY? I MEAN, WHO ARE YOU FOOLING HERE? SERIOUSLY? COME ON. WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY TO AUCKLAND IS THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT NAME RECOGNITION. IT SHOULD BE ABOUT WHO'S GOT THE SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE TO GOVERN AND TO LEAD OUR CITY. I THINK WHAT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER WAS TWO STRONG ALTERNATIVE CANDIDATES TO KIND OF SIMPLIFY THE RACE. WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT. AND THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING I'LL BE LOOKING AT AS I PREPARE TO RUN IN 2019. YES, HE SAID IT. AND INDICATIONS ARE THAT HE'S ALREADY ON THE 2019 CAMPAIGN TRAIL. I'M NOT DOING THAT` I'M SERIOUSLY NOT DOING THAT FOR THE CAMERA. YOU DID THAT FOR THE CAMERA, MARK. I'M NOT DOING THAT FOR THE CAMERA. THAT TRANSPARENCY AGAIN BREEDS ACCOUNTABILITY. THIS IS MAYORAL CANDIDATE CHLOE SWARBRICK (22) TALKING TO AN AUT JOURNALISM CLASS. SHE'S NOW MOVED IN FRONT OF MARK THOMAS IN A RECENT POLL. < YOU ARE DOING QUITE WELL. WELL, I'VE GONE FROM THE POSITION OF AN OUTSIDER TO NOW SITING IN THE FABLED 'TOP FOUR', SO, YES, WE'VE DONE QUITE WELL. < SO YOU'RE HAPPY ABOUT THAT, AREN'T YOU? I AM HAPPY ABOUT THAT, BUT I AM GUNNING FOR NUMBER ONE. # THIS CITY IS MY CITY. # LOOK, EVERYONE'S PROMISED NOT TO RAISE RATES, NOT TO BORROW MORE, NOT TO SELL ANY ASSETS BUT TO SPEND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS MORE. AND SO THIS IS A MAJOR FISCAL TRAIN WRECK. IF I AM ELECTED MAYOR, THE PLANNING STARTS IMMEDIATELY. WE HAVE A BUDGET TO WRITE IN THE FIRST MONTH AFTER THE MAYOR IS SWORN IN ON THE 1ST OF NOVEMBER. SO THAT WILL BE A KEY PRIORITY, AND WE'RE STARTING FROM SCRATCH. I BET YOU'RE NOT STARTING FROM SCRATCH. YOU'RE ALREADY STARTING TO WRITE THAT BUDGET? I'VE GOT, UM... THERE'LL BE A TOTAL CHANGE IN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE IF I'M ELECTED. WE'LL BE BRINGING NEW PEOPLE IN. SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL HAVE CONSIDERABLE FINANCIAL EXPERIENCE. MOST CANDIDATES, INCLUDING PHIL GOFF, ARE LOOKING TO A ROADING CONGESTION TAX AS A POSSIBLE REVENUE EARNER WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S SUPPORT. AND GOFF HAS OTHER FUNDRAISING IDEAS. PHIL GOFF HAS A VERY CLEAR SENSE ABOUT WHAT HE WANTS. HE'S TALKED ABOUT REGIONAL FUEL TAXES AS AN EXAMPLE. < AND YOU'RE NOT SO KEEN ON THAT. NO, THAT'S RIGHT. BECAUSE I THINK IF WE TAKE REGIONAL FUEL TAXES, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S AN ENTIRELY NEW TAX WE DON'T HAVE AT THE MOMENT IN AUCKLAND. A NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT IS VERY LOATH TO BE IMPOSING SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW LIKE THAT. RIGHT NOW GOFF IS URGING PEOPLE TO POST OFF THEIR VOTES. THE LAST MAYORAL ELECTION, ONLY 35% OF POTENTIAL VOTERS CAST A VOTE, AND MOST OF THOSE TENDED TO BE OLDER, WHITE AND WEALTHY. VIC, IF YOU DON'T PICK UP THE MAYORALTY, WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU? LOOK, THERE'S A COUPLE OF OPTIONS, BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT? FOR THIS LAST WEEK AND A HALF, I AM ONLY FOCUSED ON DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO GET THE CHANGE FOR AUCKLAND. PALINO SEES A SILVER LINING IF HE DOESN'T CLINCH THE MAYORALTY ` THIS TIME. THE OTHER DAY PHIL REPEATED ONE OF MY NEWEST POLICIES, WHICH IS AMAZING. SO IF HE ACTUALLY CARRIES THEM THROUGH, IF HE GETS THROUGH AND HE CARRIES THEM THROUGH, WELL, THEN MAYBE WE WILL GO IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ` MAYBE. NEXT, WE REVISIT NZ'S ROLE AT THE UN. LOOKING BACK TO WHEN NZ WAS LAST ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL AND THE CHALLENGES IT FACED THEN. YOUR FEEDBACK ON OUR INTERVIEWS NOW. AND FIRST, ON JOHN KEY'S TURN AT THE UN AND HIS HARD TALK ON SYRIA. AND ON FACEBOOK, RAYON MACKENZIE SAID, MARY ANN DE KORT SAYS, 'KEY RIGHTLY CALLED OUT SUPERPOWERS ABOUT SYRIA, 'BUT WE'RE STILL PAYING $20B FOR WAR TOYS, 'AND WE SUPPORT ONE OF THE MAIN INSTIGATORS.' MOVING TO HELEN CLARK'S BID TO LEAD THE UN, AND VINCE ASHWORTH HAS EMAILED IN TO SAY, 'CLARK IS NEVER GOING TO BE THE UN SECRETARY GENERAL. 'NEITHER THE AMERICANS NOR THE RUSSIANS WILL HAVE HER. 'THEY WON'T HAVE SOMEONE AS STRONG AS HER. 'THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN A COMPLETE WASTE OF TAXPAYER FUNDS 'FOR A LOST CAUSE.' AND BYRON BLAKE, ALSO ON EMAIL, BELIEVES IF THE PORTUGUESE EX-PRIME MINISTER IS AHEAD OF THE FIELD, IT MEANS ONE THING ` DRUG REFORM. HE SAYS, 'NZ IS SO BACKWARD ON THIS TOPIC 'THAT HELEN CLARK DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE.' FINALLY, IN KEEPING WITH THE EVENTS IN NEW YORK THIS WEEK, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK BACK TO WHEN NZ LAST SAT ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL, FROM 1993 TO '94. NZ HAD BEEN PRAISED FOR BEING ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRIES TO PUSH THE SECURITY COUNCIL TO INTERVENE IN THE RWANDAN GOVERNMENT'S GENOCIDE AGAINST TUTSI. TRAGICALLY, IT CAME TOO LATE. 800,000 PEOPLE ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN KILLED DURING THE MASSACRE. AFTER NZ FINISHED UP ITS TIME ON THE COUNCIL, ANITA MCNAUGHT SPOKE TO NZ'S AMBASSADOR TO THE UN, COLIN KEATING, ABOUT THAT TIME. IT'S BEEN A DEMANDING COUPLE OF YEARS FOR THE UN WITH CONFLICTS IN AFRICA AND EUROPE STRETCHING RESOURCES TO THE LIMITS AND GIVING THE SECURITY COUNCIL MORE THAN A FEW HARD CALLS TO MAKE. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS SATISFIED, PARTICULARLY, ABOUT RWANDA. I THINK THAT NZ WAS THE COUNTRY THAT STOOD UP AND SAID, 'LOOK HERE, GENOCIDE IS TAKING PLACE. 'SOMETHING HAS GOT TO BE DONE ABOUT IT.' WE'RE THE ONES WHO CALLED FOR A UNITED NATIONS FORCE TO GO IN TO RWANDA. I THINK THE UNITED NATIONS HAS RESPONDED SLOWLY, INADEQUATELY, BUT IT'S NEVERTHELESS RESPONDED TO THE LEADERSHIP THAT WE AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN GIVING. THAT OUTSPOKENNESS EARNED NZ THANKS AND PROMISES OF ENDURING SUPPORT FROM THE AFRICAN STATES. BUT HERE AT HOME, PEOPLE LIKE DAVID LANGE WERE ACCUSING NZ OF PASSING THE BUCK ON BOSNIA. BOSNIA REMAINS A PROBLEM. I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT COULD BE SAID ABOUT BOSNIA IS THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN AWFUL LOT WORSE AND AN AWFUL LOT MORE BLOODY IF THE UNITED NATIONS HAD NOT BEEN THERE. DESPITE THE GROWING DANGER TO KIWI PEACEKEEPERS FROM BOSNIAN SERBS, COLIN KEATING BELIEVES UNPROFOR SHOULD REMAIN AND MORE TROOPS SHOULD JOIN THEM. THAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SINGLE VOICE IN FAVOUR OF RUNNING AWAY WITH OUR TAILS BETWEEN OUR LEGS. COLIN KEATING'S REALISTIC ABOUT THE UN'S LIMITATIONS. THE UN'S PRIORITIES ARE THOSE OF THE MEMBER STATES. THEY DICTATE IT. THEY SET IT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND SECURITY COUNCIL. INEVITABLY, THOSE PRIORITIES ARE GOING TO BE GOVERNED BY THE NATIONAL INTERESTS OF THE STATES CONCERNED. WAKA HUIA IN INVERCARGILL IS NEXT. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY ASHLEE SCHOLEFIELD AND ANTONY VLUG. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016