HE ITI HOKI TE MOKOROA, NANA I KAKATI TE KAHIKATEA. KEI AKU NUI, KEI AKU RAHI E POWHIRITIA ANA KOUTOU KI TE HUI. KO MIHINGARANGI TENEI E KARANGA ATU NEI. NAU MAI, TAHUTI MAI RA. WELCOME TO 'THE HUI', MAORI CURRENT AFFAIRS FOR ALL NZERS. COMING UP THIS MORNING ` TWO BROTHERS HORRIFICALLY INJURED WHILE SERVING OUR COUNTRY IN THE NZ ARMY. TWICE RECOMMENDED TO RECEIVE COMPENSATION. TWICE TURNED DOWN BY THE GOVERNMENT. NOW THE NEPATA BROTHERS ARE TAKIN THEIR BATTLE TO THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL. AND SHE'S THE SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR NATIVE AMERICAN AFFAIRS. WE SPEAK TO CHIPPEWA WAHINE TOA KAREN DIVER. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016 KARAHUIHUI MAI ANO. LATER IN THE PROGRAMME POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE MAORI WALLACE HAUMAHA JOINS ME, ENGARI MATUA RA I TENEI ATA. IMAGINE BEING HORRIFICALLY MAIMED WHILE SERVING OUR COUNTRY AND BEING REFUSED COMPENSATION BY THE GOVERNMENT DESPITE THE RECOMMENDATION OF A SELECT COMMITTEE. WELL, THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THE NEPATA BROTHERS NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE. DAMIAN NEPATA WAS 21 YEARS OLD WHEN HE SUFFERED BURNS TO OVER 40% OF HIS BODY. IN 1994 THE SCORPION TANK HE WAS DRIVING CRASHED, ROLLED AND CAUGHT FIRE DURING A TRAINING EXERCISE AT WAIOURU. HIS DOCTORS SAID THE INJURIES HE SUFFERED ARE WORSE THAN THIRD DEGREE BURNS, COMING WITHIN MILLIMETRES OF HIS INTERNAL ORGANS. FIVE YEARS EARLIER, HIS OLDER BROTHER GEORGE BECAME A TETRAPLEGIC WHEN HE WAS DROPPED ON HIS HEAD WHILE BEING CARRIED ON A STRETCHER DURING A TRAINING EXERCISE IN SINGAPORE. GEORGE WAS 22. FIVE DAYS AFTER HIS ACCIDENT, WHILE STILL IN HOSPITAL, GEORGE'S THUMB WAS DIPPED IN INK AND THE PRINT USED TO DISCHARGE HIM FROM THE ARMY. THE BROTHERS HAVE NEVER RECEIVED AN APOLOGY FROM EITHER THE DEFENCE FORCE OR THE GOVERNMENT. TWO SELECT COMMITTEE INQUIRIES MADE RECOMMENDATIONS TO VETERAN AFFAIRS MINISTERS FOR COMPENSATION BUT BOTH WERE IGNORED. THIS WEEK THE NEPATAS TOOK THEIR BATTLE FOR JUSTICE TO THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL, GIVING EVIDENCE AS PART OF MAORI VETERANS CLAIM. HERE TO TELL US THE LATEST, I'M JOINED BY DAMIAN NEPATA. TENA KOE, E HOA. KIA ORA. THANKS FOR COMING IN. HEY, SO, WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS INQUIRY, DO YOU RECKON? UM, WELL, THE TRIBUNAL INQUIRY ACTUALLY GOES BEYOND JUST GEORGE AND I. IT'S ABOUT TREATMENT OF MAORI VETERANS PRETTY MUCH SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO, SO IT'S QUITE BROAD RANGING. COVERS A NUMBER OF ISSUES BEYOND JUST GEORGE AND I'S ACCIDENT. UM, FOR ME PERSONALLY, AT LEAST, IT WAS A BETTER FORUM FOR ME TO AT LEAST DISCUSS MY CONCERNS AND GEORGE'S CONCERNS IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHICH WAS FAMILIAR AND SAFE. YEAH, AND I GUESS IN THE OTHER INQUIRIES YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE DEFENCE FORCE DID THIS AND THIS, AND THIS ONE, THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL PANEL WILL LOOK AT WHETHER THE CROWN HAS BREACHED THE TREATY IN DEALING WITH YOU, YOUR BROTHER AND YOUR WHANAU. WHERE DO YOU THINK THE TREATY'S BEEN BREACHED? UH, RESPONSIBILITY OF CARE FOR THE CROWN FOR ITS SOLDIERS. I MEAN, EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP, NOT JUST BETWEEN THE CROWN AND MAORI, BUT THE CROWN AND THE MEMBERS OF ITS DEFENCE FORCE, BECAUSE THE CROWN PUTS AN OBLIGATION ON YOU THAT AT ANY POINT IN TIME IT CAN ASK YOU TO LEAVE NZ, TRAVEL OVERSEAS AND PUT YOUR PHYSICAL SAFETY IN HARM'S WAY, TO EVEN DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY. UM, SO THAT'S WHERE THERE'S SOME GROUND WHERE THERE'S SOME THINKING THAT THE TREATY IN THAT RESPECT HAS BEEN BREACHED, THAT THE CROWN IS NOT LIVING UP TO ITS END OF THE BARGAIN WHEN IT COMES TO MEMBERS OF THE DEFENCE FORCE. AND ALSO I READ IN YOUR STATEMENT THE CONSULTATION BETWEEN THE CROWN AND YOUR FAMILY. UH, YES, SO THAT GOES TO, UM,... A NUMBER OF CROWN AGENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN BOTH GEORGE AND I, SO THAT'S MINISTRY OF HEALTH, ACCIDENT COMPENSATION CORPORATION, THE DEFENCE FORCE IN TOTAL. SO THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ALL OF THOSE AGENCIES TOGETHER HAS BEEN LACKING, THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THEM AND US HAS BEEN LACKING. IN FACT, THERE'S BEEN VERY LITTLE. IN GEORGE'S CASE, EVERYTHING THAT HE IS RECEIVING NOW FROM ACC, HE'S ALMOST HAD TO FIGHT FOR IT FROM DAY ONE, EVEN UP UNTIL AS RECENTLY AS LAST YEAR. YOU'VE NEVER RECEIVED AN APOLOGY? NO. NO. THERE HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS AND COMRADES WHO HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR SYMPATHY AND THEIR CONCERNS AND THEIR SORROW ABOUT HOW OUR TREATMENT HAS BEEN, BUT AS FAR AS ORGANISATIONALLY GOES OR AS THE CROWN GOES, NO, NO APOLOGY. SO YOU COULD GET AN APOLOGY IN THAT. HOW MEANINGFUL WOULD THAT BE? I WAS THINKING ON THAT LAST NIGHT, AND IT WOULD BE A STEP FORWARD. BUT BECAUSE WE'RE NOW 20-SOMETHING YEARS DOWN THE TRACK AND WHEN WE STARTED THIS WAY BACK IN 1999, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANY APOLOGY WOULD BE MEANINGFUL OR WHETHER IT'S JUST BEING FORCED BECAUSE OF THE COVERAGE, BECAUSE OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND BECAUSE OF NOW THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL. YEAH, YOU'RE MEANING, LIKE, IF THEY MEANT IT, IT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS RATHER THAN JUST DISCHARGING YOU FROM THE ARMY WITH YOUR THUMBPRINT FIVE DAYS AFTER? AND WAITING 20 YEARS FOR IT AND ONLY COMING TO AN APOLOGY BECAUSE THERE'S PRESSURE FROM OUTSIDE. YOU KNOW, YOUR CASE IS SO UNIQUE, BECAUSE THE TWO OF YOU DON'T QUALIFY FOR SO MANY THINGS. THE LUMP PAYMENT FROM ACC ` DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR THAT. YOU ENTERED THE ARMY BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT SERVICE SCHEME, WHICH HAD THE BUILT-IN INSURANCE POLICY. AND YOU ENTERED IT AFTER THE VETERANS BENEFIT, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU WERE DEPLOYED OVERSEAS. YOUR CASE HAS HIGHLIGHTED SO MANY CRACKS IN THE SYSTEM. HOW DO YOU COPE WITH THAT? (CHUCKLES) UM,... IT GOES TO WHAT I SUPPOSE GEORGE SAID AT THE TRIBUNAL HEARING. WE MOVE ON. SO, YES, WE'VE FALLEN THROUGH A NUMBER OF CRACKS. THE ONLY POSITIVE TO COME OUT OF WHAT THE PROCESS THAT GEORGE AND I HAVE BEEN THROUGH IS THAT THOSE CRACKS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED. IF THAT HADN'T HAVE HAPPENED, THEN THEY WOULD STILL BE THERE, AND A LOT OF SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN THAT CAME AFTER US AND WERE SUBSEQUENTLY INJURED WOULDN'T BE RECEIVING ANY COMPENSATION WHATSOEVER. SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT KIND OF GIVES ME COMFORT IN THAT RESPECT IS THAT, UM, WE'VE FALLEN THROUGH THOSE CRACKS, YES, WE'VE, THROUGH VARIOUS PROCESSES, HIGHLIGHTED THOSE, AND IN SOME SMALL WAY, THINGS HAVE CHANGED TO ENSURE THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO US DOESN'T HAPPEN TO SERVICE PERSONNEL THAT CAME AFTER US. YET WE'RE STILL NOT BRINGING ALL OF OUR DEAD HOME, LIKE THE ONES IN MALAYSIA. WELL, HOPEFULLY THINGS HAVE MOVED ON THAT, AND I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CROWN'S REFUSAL TO DO THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. THEY KNOW OR KNEW THAT THESE SOLDIERS WERE NOT INTERRED IN COMMONWEALTH WAR GRAVE COMMISSION GRAVES WHERE THEY ARE PROTECTED, THAT THERE WERE MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY OF THESE SOLDIERS THAT WANTED THEM BROUGHT HOME, AND YET THE CROWN IMPOSED THE COST ON THEM TO DO THAT AND SAID THE EQUIVALENT TO I THINK IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE FIGURE OF $100,000 IN TODAY'S DOLLARS. SO AGAIN THAT'S WHERE THE CROWN HAS FALLEN DOWN IN ITS RESPONSIBILITY TO ITS SERVICE PERSONNEL. THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANTED THEIR LOVED ONES BROUGHT HOME AFTER THE MALAYAN EMERGENCY, THE BORNEO CONFRONTATION, ETC, SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT HOME. IS IT A SIMILAR CULTURE THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED, DO YOU THINK, FROM THEM? I THINK WHAT THEY RELIED ON IS POLICY AND ADVICE FROM, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, BUREAUCRATS. WELL, THERE'S A TIME AND PLACE FOR POLICY, AND THERE'S A TIME AND PLACE TO, AS A LEADER AND PARTICULARLY A POLITICAL LEADER, TO PUT THAT ASIDE AND SAY, 'WELL, ACTUALLY, WE JUST NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING, 'SO LET'S DO THE RIGHT THING AND BRING THESE PEOPLE HOME.' IT'S BEEN SAID THAT TO COMPENSATE YOU AND GEORGE WOULD OPEN A FLOODGATE. WHO SAID THAT, AND WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS AT THE TIME THAT YOU READ IT? UM, DEFENCE SAID THAT, AND THEY MENTIONED IT IN TWO OF THE THREE SELECT COMMITTEES THAT WE APPEARED IN FRONT OF. THE FIRST ONE IN 1999, THEY PUT THAT ARGUMENT FORWARD. THEY NEVER PROVIDED A FIGURE. THEY PUT IT FORWARD AGAIN IN 2003, AND IN 2013 THEY ACTUALLY GAVE A FIGURE ` 20 TO 30. REALISTICALLY, I GUESS, HOW MANY 'NEPATA BROTHERS' ARE THERE OUT THERE? AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE'S ONLY US THREE. I'LL SAY THREE OF US. BUT I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THE FLOODGATE ARGUMENT HELD WATER ANYWAY. EVEN IF THERE WERE A FLOODGATE, IF THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS TO COMPENSATE THOSE SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN OR TO BRING THEIR LOVED ONE HOME, THEN DO IT. UM, IF THE COST IS THE ISSUE, WELL, WE'VE JUST SPENT $24 MILLION ON A FLAG REFERENDUM THAT NOBODY WANTED, WE SPENT TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON A YACHT RACE FOR WEALTHY NZERS, UH, $1.3 MILLION FOR A GOLFING TOURNAMENT ON A PRIVATE GOLF COURSE, SO I DON'T THINK THAT ARGUMENT HOLDS WATER EITHER, BECAUSE WE SEEM TO FIND THE MONEY SOMEWHERE TO DO THINGS THAT ARE POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT. DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED TO YOU, DO YOU STILL GET UP ON ANZAC DAY? OH, EVERY YEAR. EVERY YEAR. IF I'M WITH GEORGE, WE GET UP TOGETHER. GEORGE ALWAYS GOES TO AN ANZAC DAY IN TAUPO IF HE'S WELL ENOUGH TO GET UP. IF I'M HERE IN AUCKLAND, I NORMALLY ATTEND THE DOMAIN SERVICE, OR I CATCH UP WITH FRIENDS AT PAPAKURA OR OTHER PLACES. BUT EVERY YEAR, EVERY ANZAC DAY, WE'RE THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, DAMIAN. WE'LL BE LISTENING TO THE HEARING AND SEE HOW YOU GO. THANK YOU. KIA ORA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME. KIA MAU TONU MAI RA, AFTER THE BREAK WE SPEAK TO POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE MAORI WALLACE HAUMAHA. TAUTI MAI ANO. OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS 511 MAAORI HAVE GRADUATED FROM NZ POLICE COLLEGE. OF THOSE, JUST NINE IDENTIFY AS TUHOE. THAT'S ONE EACH YEAR. A WHAKATANE WOMAN HELEN TULLOCH, KNOWN AS NEN, HAD ALWAYS DREAMT OF JOINING THE POLICE. LAST YEAR SHE APPLIED TO TE WANANGA O AOTEAROA, WHERE SHE COMPLETED THE POLICE PREPARATION COURSE. A TUTOR TOLD ME SHE WOULD HAVE MADE AN EXCELLENT OFFICER. BUT THAT WASN'T TO BE. PRIOR TO BEING ACCEPTED TO COLLEGE, NEN HAD TO COMPLETE 40 HOURS AT THE WHAKATANE POLICE STATION. POLICE FROM THE STATION WOULD EVALUATE HER AND WRITE A REPORT WHICH WOULD DECIDE HER FUTURE. THE REPORT WOULD BE BASED ON POLICING VALUES, WHICH INCLUDE RESPECT, INTEGRITY, COMMITMENT TO MAORI AND THE TREATY AND VALUING DIVERSITY. NEN, WHO IS TUHOE, WAS UNSUCCESSFUL. SHE APPEALED TWICE AND LOST. HER REPORT WAS WITHHELD UNDER THE PRIVACY ACT, AND SHE HAS NO IDEA WHY SHE FAILED. SHE SAYS A RECRUITMENT OFFICER TOLD HER SHE WAS TOO NICE, KNEW TOO MANY PEOPLE AND WAS TUHOE. JOINING ME NOW IS THE COUNTRY'S TOP MAORI COP. DEPUTY CHIEF EXECUTIVE MAORI, WALLY HAUMAHA, HAS STEPPED IN AND JOINS ME NOW. KIA ORA. TENA KOE. KIA ORA. I GUESS, WHAT MAKES A GOOD MAORI COP? WELL, I THINK MOST MAORI JOIN THE ORGANISATION AND WE HAVE THIS SAYING WHERE THEY WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND, OF COURSE, MY WHOLE FOCUS AROUND TRYING TO LIFT THE SIGHTS AND BRING MORE MAORI INTO THE ORGANISATION IS TO BE ABLE TO BRING THEIR ATTRIBUTES AND SKILLS, THEIR CULTURAL BACKGROUND AND GO BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND SERVE THEM, THEIR COMMUNITIES, TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY. AND DO YOU THINK`? YOU KNOW THIS STORY, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT THIS WEEK. DO YOU THINK THE POLICE RECRUITMENT PROCESS IS ROBUST ENOUGH? WELL, YOU KNOW, I TRUST THE POLICE RECRUITMENT PROCESS, BUT WE CAN ALWAYS IMPROVE. AND I THINK WE HAVE TAKEN STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THERE ARE ISSUES THAT COME TO OUR ATTENTION, THEN HOW DO WE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES? WE HAVE SOME VERY CAPABLE PEOPLE IN THE RECRUITING PROCESS RIGHT AT THE FRONT END OF THE GAME, AND IF THERE ARE AMBIGUITIES IN THAT PROCESS, WELL, THEN IT WOULD BE REFERRED TO A NATIONAL BOARD. WE HAVE A NATIONAL SELECTION PANEL THAT WILL DEAL WITH ANY ISSUES, AND THEY ARE MADE UP OF TWO PEOPLE FROM MY OFFICE OF MAORI-PACIFIC ETHNIC SERVICES AND ONE FROM THE ROYAL NZ POLICE COLLEGE AND A DISTRICT COMMANDER. VERY TRANSPARENT AND OPEN IN THE PROCESS IN TERMS OF GETTING IT RIGHT. SO THAT REFLECTS DIVERSITY AND A COMMITMENT TO THE TREATY AND TO MAORI THERE AT THAT AREA? YEAH. SO LET ME COME BACK TO THE POLICE COMMISSION. MIKE BUSH ADMITTED LAST YEAR THE FORCE HAD SOME UNCONSCIOUS BIAS IN REGARDS TO MAORI. YOU KNOW THAT, AND YOU'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THAT. IS IT FAIR THAT A TUHOE WOMAN IS ASSESSED ON THE VALUES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THE COMMITMENT TO MAORI AND THE TREATY, BY PAKEHA? BECAUSE IN THIS SITUATION, THERE WERE NONE OF YOUR PEOPLE THAT WERE ASSESSING HER. ABSOLUTELY, AND I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE IN RESPECT OF HER BELONGING TO TUHOE, AND I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED, BUT I KNOW FOR SURE THAT THAT CERTAINLY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A BARRIER FOR HER TO BE JOINING THE POLICE. AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE WORKED HARD TO ESTABLISH OUR RELATIONSHIP AND REBUILD OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH TUHOE OVER THE LAST NINE YEARS. BUT IN THIS CASE, DO YOU THINK IT'S FAIR? BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WHAKATANE POLICE STATION, AND THIS IS THE PROCESS IN TERMS OF THAT SCOPE RECRUITMENT ` THE WHAKATANE POLICEMEN, THE COMMUNITY IS 42% MAORI, THERE ARE JUST EIGHT MAORI POLICE, NONE OF THEM ARE ABOVE A CONSTABLE, AND THERE'S 67 OTHERS. SO SHE WAS NOT ASSESSED BY ANYONE MAORI, SHE'S MAORI HERSELF, AND SHE HAS NON-MAORI REVIEWING HER IN TERMS OF HER COMMITMENT TO THE TREATY, TO MAORI AND DIVERSITY. IN FACT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S ENTIRELY CORRECT. I THINK THERE IS A MAORI SERGEANT WHO OPERATES OUT OF WHAKATANE POLICE STATION WHO DID KNOW THE APPLICANT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT RATHER THAN` JUST ON THE FACTS THAT I WAS GIVEN YESTERDAY, THERE ARE NO MAORI ABOVE THE STATUS OF CONSTABLE. AND THOSE STATISTICS COME OUT FROM OUR NATIONAL OFFICE, WHERE A LOT OF OUR PEOPLE DON'T SELF-IDENTIFY, SO WE DON'T ACTUALLY CAPTURE THEIR TRIBAL AFFILIATIONS AT THE TIME, BUT FROM MY RECOLLECTION AND MY KNOWLEDGE OF STAFF IN THE WAIARIKI DISTRICT, I KNOW FOR SURE THAT THERE IS A MAORI SERGEANT THERE WHO WOULD'VE HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THE APPLICANT. BUT RATHER THAN GO INTO THE DETAILS, BECAUSE THIS HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION, AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE OF` YES, SO WHERE ARE YOU AT WITH IT? WELL, I'VE ASKED FOR A NATIONAL REVIEW OF THIS APPLICANT'S APPLICATION AND THAT'S GOING TO THE NATIONAL BOARD, WHICH I'VE GIVEN CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS THAT IF THERE ARE ISSUES AND CHALLENGES TO THE PROCESS, THEN WE SHOULD BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT ENOUGH TO LOOK AT IT, REVIEW THE PROCESS AND THEN PROVIDE SATISFACTION NOT ONLY TO THAT APPLICANT BUT TO THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HER. SO, UM, THAT REVIEW WILL BE TAKEN UP PROBABLY NEXT WEEK, AND, UM, RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, SO LONG AS THE PROCESS IS FOLLOWED AND WE CAN GUARANTEE THAT SHE'S EITHER A GOOD APPLICANT OR NOT A GOOD APPLICANT, I WOULD EXPECT THAT IF THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS TO REGAIN ITS MOMENTUM, THEN I WOULD ASK THAT THIS PERSON BE PLACED IN ANOTHER AREA AND ALSO BE SPOKEN TO BY A COMMISSIONED OFFICER OUTSIDE OF THE AREA. KIA ORA. AND THAT'S ALL SHE ASKED FOR ` IS A FAIR PROCESS. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE TALKED EARLIER IN THE WEEK. WHAT WORK HAS BEEN ACHIEVED IN THE BAY OF PLENTY AREA, PARTICULARLY WITH TUHOE, AFTER THE RAIDS? LOOK, WE'VE ESTABLISHED A REALLY STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LEADERSHIP WITHIN TUHOE, AS YOU KNOW. WE OFTEN VISIT TE URU TAUMATUA, HAVE DISCUSSIONS AROUND THE WAY FORWARD AROUND ISSUES THAT REFLECT THE AREA, PARTICULARLY WITH THE LEADER, TAMATI KRUGER, AND ALSO WITH KIRSTI LUKE. YOU'D RECALL THAT WE INVITED TUHOE CHILDREN DOWN TO THE ROYAL NZ POLICE COLLEGE. TWO YEARS AGO WE HAD 91 COME TO THE COLLEGE, AND OUT OF THAT 91, THERE WERE 71 TUHOE CHILDREN. THEY ABSOLUTELY LOVED THEIR TIME BEING EXPOSED TO WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OF THE POLICE COLLEGE ` TRAINING AND ALL OF THAT STUFF. BUT IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO PLANT THE SEED EARLY INTO THE MIND OF THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE. IT'S A SLOW PROCESS, THOUGH, EH? BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE STATS, JUST NINE FROM TUHOE` IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROCESS OVERALL, IT IS A SLOW PROCESS. SO FOR EVERY 100 APPLICANTS THAT WE GET COMING THROUGH THE DOOR, ONLY 11 ` THIS IS ACROSS THE BOARD, GENERALLY ` ONLY 11 MAY MAKE IT THROUGH THE ACTUAL PROCESS. IN THE LAST YEAR, WE'VE HAD 607 MAORI APPLICATIONS. OUT OF 607, 60 WERE SUCCESSFUL GETTING INTO THE PROCESS, AND OUT OF THAT 60, 15% WERE SUCCESSFUL INTO THE POOL. SO IN ACTUAL FACT, THAT 15% IS ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE OF 11%. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WHO ARE DECLINED AFTER SCOPE, IT'S ONLY 8%, SO NEN, HELEN TULLOCH, SHE WAS ONE OF 8%. YEAH. WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, AND I KNOW HURIMOANA DENNIS WAS CHARGED WITH KIDNAPPING YESTERDAY. WE HEARD ON THE NEWS. HE WAS ONE OF YOUR MAORI INSPECTORS, OR AT THAT LEVEL. THERE HAVE BEEN CALLS TO HAVE HIS CASE HEARD ON THE MARAE, NOT IN THE COURTS. I THINK THAT'S A POLITICAL KIND OF MOVE AT THE MOMENT. GIVEN HE WAS ONE OF YOUR STRATEGIC MAORI ADVISERS, I KNOW WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE CASE, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK WOULD SUIT? WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, OUR ORGANISATION, I BELIEVE, HAS TRANSFORMED ITSELF SIGNIFICANTLY OVER THE YEARS. IN FACT, IF I LOOK BACK TO 1996, WHERE WE WERE THEN AS TO WHERE WE ARE NOW, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME REAL HUGE CHANGES. YOU'D BE AWARE THAT WE WERE PART AND PARCEL OF THE RANGATAHI YOUTH COURT ESTABLISHMENT OF HAVING YOUTH HEARINGS ON THE MARAE AND SUPPORTED THE JUDGES AND THE MINISTRY OF JUSTICE HUGELY IN THAT AREA. WE'VE GONE A STEP FURTHER IN TERMS OF IWI JUSTICE PANELS, WHICH I BELIEVE ARE REAL GROUNDBREAKING, INNOVATIVE PRACTICE TO ALLOW THOSE WHO ARE LOW-LEVEL OFFENDERS TO BE HEARD ON THE MARAE, NOT SO MUCH IN TERMS OF PROVIDING WHATEVER THE PUNITIVE OUTCOME MIGHT BE BUT LOOKING FOR A MORE OUTCOME THAT LOOKS AT BEHAVIOURAL CHANGE. AND SO WE'VE GOT THREE SIGNIFICANT PROGRAMMES RUNNING IN WELLINGTON, GISBORNE AND MANUKAU WHICH HAVE HAD SOME TREMENDOUS SUCCESS IN ABOUT TURNING PEOPLE'S LIVES AROUND. SO IF WE FOLLOW THAT CONTINUUM OF LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN BETTER DEAL WITH MAORI IN TERMS OF JUSTICE AND KEEPING THEM OUT OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, THEN THERE MAY BE A STEP AND A CALL IN THE ADULT JURISDICTION TO HAVE THOSE WHO ARE ALSO AT THE LOWER END OF THE SPECTRUM HEARD IN THAT SAME FORUM. ARE YOU ABLE TO COMMENT ON MR DENNIS, THOUGH ` WHETHER YOU WOULD SUPPORT THAT? UH, NO, I CAN'T. UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T, AND YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT. INSPECTOR DENNIS DID WORK FOR ME FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AS THOSE MATTERS ARE BEFORE THE COURT, I CAN'T COMMENT ON THAT. JUST QUICKLY, HAVE YOU GOT A TIMEFRAME ON WHEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO COME BACK TO US ABOUT MS TULLOCH? I HOPE TO GET TOGETHER WITH THE REVIEW PANEL NEXT WEEK, AND ALL THE DOCUMENTATION THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED ABOUT HER APPLICATION BE PUT IN FRONT OF THE PANEL, AND OBVIOUSLY I WANT TO GET THE BEST OUTCOME, BOTH FOR HER, SO SHE CAN MOVE ON WITH HER LIFE. IF SHE HAPPENS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING REINTERVIEWED IN TERMS OF THE APPLICATION, THEN I WOULD WISH HER ALL THE BEST. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING ON. I KNOW YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO AND YOU'VE DRIVEN A LONG WAY FOR US, SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. TENA KOE. KIA ORA. NOHO TONU MAI RA, KEI TUA I NGA WHAKATAIRANGA KA TUTAKI I TE MATANGA TAKETAKE MO PEREHITINI OBAMA. AFTER THE BREAK ` WE MEET THE SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT OBAMA ON NATIVE AMERICAN AFFAIRS. WELCOME TO 'THE HUI', MAORI CURRENT AFFAIRS FOR ALL NZERS. HOKI MAI ANO. WELL, THE STANDOFF AT STANDING ROCK OVER A $3.8B PIPELINE CARRYING CRUDE OIL ACROSS A SIOUX RESERVATION IS JUST ONE OF MANY IMPACTING INDIAN COUNTRY. AND THERE IS ONE WAHINE WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVISING PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA ABOUT THEM. HER NAME IS KAREN DIVER, AND SHE HAILS FROM THE FOND DU LAC BAND OF LAKE SUPERIOR CHIPPEWA. IN 2015 SHE WAS APPOINTED AS SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR NATIVE AMERICAN AFFAIRS, AND SHE JOINS ME NOW ALL THE WAY FROM ROTORUA. TENA KOE. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. YOU'VE BEEN PARTICIPATING IN THE WAHINE LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE DOWN THERE IN ROTORUA, SO WELCOME TO AOTEAROA. I WONDER IF YOU COULD TELL US, HOW DID YOU GET TO ADVISE PRESIDENT OBAMA? MY BACKGROUND IS ACTUALLY AS AN ELECTED TRIBAL LEADER OF ANISHINAABE, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS CHIPPEWA TRIBE, IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA. IT WAS A POSITION I HELD FOR NINE YEARS, SO I WAS ABLE TO INTERACT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AT MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS, INCLUDING WITH MANY OF THE AGENCIES AROUND SPECIFIC ISSUES. AND THEN I ALSO WAS TAPPED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA TO BE AN ELECTED TRIBAL LEADER REPRESENTATIVE ON A CLIMATE TASKFORCE WITH OTHER JURISDICTIONS. SO I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ASKED TO HELP THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS TRIBAL AGENDA BEFORE THE END OF HIS ADMINISTRATION. I GUESS, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE IN THAT POSITION? SO, THE DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL IS THE PART OF THE WHITE HOUSE THAT I WORK FOR. IT'S NOT FOR SPECIFIC TRIBAL ISSUES; IT'S MORE OF A POLICY ARM OF THE WHITE HOUSE. SO SOME IMPORTANT THINGS THAT I THINK THAT WE'VE COMPLETED SINCE I'VE BEEN THERE IS UPDATED REGULATIONS REGARDING INDIAN CHILD WELFARE ACT GUIDELINES TO GUIDE DISTRICT COURTS AND SOCIAL WORK DEPARTMENTS REGARDING THE HANDLING OF NATIVE CHILDREN TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE RETAINED WITHIN NATIVE HOUSEHOLDS. THE OTHER THING I THINK IS QUITE SIGNIFICANT CAME OUT OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY AND IS NOW SIGNED OFF BY OTHER AGENCIES AS AN INTER-AGENCY AGREEMENT TO MAKE SURE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT TRIBAL TREATY RIGHTS AND ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCES DECISION MAKING. AND WE'RE DEALING WITH SO MANY SIMILAR THINGS HERE WITH MAORI AS WELL. I WONDERED IF YOU COULD TELL US ` PRESIDENT OBAMA, YOU KNOW, IS HE A GOOD PRESIDENT IN TERMS OF THE WELFARE OF NATIVE AMERICANS? OH, ABSOLUTELY. AND IT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS I WAS WILLING TO RESIGN MY POSITION AS A TRIBAL CHAIRWOMAN WAS BECAUSE CUMULATIVELY, HE FAR SURPASSES ALL OF THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS IN TERMS OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITH TRIBAL COMMUNITIES AND THE PRIORITISATION OF THEIR NEEDS. WHAT HAPPENS NOW? DO YOU CARRY ON WITH THE NEXT PRESIDENT, OR WILL YOUR TURN BE FINISHED? I AM PRESIDENT OBAMA'S SPECIAL ASSISTANT, SO MY TIME IS DONE THERE WHEN HIS TIME IS DONE THERE. SOME OF THE LAST THINGS THAT I WILL COMPLETE IS PUTTING SOME TOOLS INTO THE HANDS OF TRIBAL LEADERS THAT TALK ABOUT A MULTI-YEAR AGENDA AND OUTLINES THE WORK YET TO BE COMPLETED. AND I WILL COMPLETE DOCUMENTS IN THE CASE THAT THE NEXT PRESIDENT ALSO HAS A NATIVE AMERICAN ADVISER. YOU SOUND SO PASSIONATE ABOUT CHILD WELFARE. IS THIS AN ISSUE THAT'S AFFECTED YOUR TRIBE OR YOUR BAND? ACTUALLY, PRETTY MUCH ALL TRIBES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. THERE'S 567 OF THEM. 230 ARE IN ALASKA. IT HAS BEEN A CHRONIC AND ONGOING PROBLEM THAT, BECAUSE OF THE SOCIAL EFFECTS OF COLONISATION AND SYSTEMIC RACISM AND OPPRESSION, THAT OUR FAMILIES ARE HURTING AND UNDERGO HARDSHIP. AND, YOU KNOW, IN MANY CASES, THAT HAS IMPACTS ON THE FAMILY'S ABILITY TO CARE FOR CHILDREN, AND THE STATE STEPS IN FOR THE WELFARE OF THE CHILDREN. BUT WE HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE SURE THEY MAINTAIN NOT ONLY THEIR SAFETY AND THEIR WELL-BEING, BUT THEIR CULTURAL HERITAGE, SO THAT THEY REMAIN NATIVE CHILDREN. WELL, I'VE BEEN ASKED NOT TO ASK YOU ABOUT STANDING ROCK, BUT I'M GOING TO ANYWAY. KAREN, WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT ON THAT ISSUE? SO, AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE INTERVIEW, IT IS NOT THE ROLE OF THE DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL NOR THE WHITE HOUSE TO TELL REGULATORY AGENCIES HOW TO REGULATE. WE ARE AWARE THAT THE AGENCIES INVOLVED, THAT THIS IS A HIGH-PRIORITY ITEM AND THAT THEY ARE ENGAGED WITH EACH OTHER AND MONITORING THE SITUATION. I GUESS, THEN, IS THE PRESIDENT CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE? I CAN'T COMMENT ON THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME THIS MORNING. WE HOPE YOU ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR TIME HERE IN AOTEAROA. SO, IF YOU WOULD LIKE A COMMENT ON THAT, I WOULD DIRECT YOU TO THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY. KIA ORA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT WEEK ON THE HUI ` HE'S A 22-YEAR-OLD JUJITSU CHAMP WITH A BRIGHT FUTURE, DETERMINED TO HELP RANGATAHI IN HIS COMMUNITY. A LOT OF KIDS THERE HAVE MANY HURDLES JUST TO MAKE IT TO SCHOOL IN THE MORNING. I DON'T DO IT FOR ANY OTHER REASON JUST OTHER THAN I CARE, YOU KNOW, FOR THESE KIDS, FOR THE RANGATAHI. # HEY. EVERY DAY, I'M LIVING MY OWN DREAMS. LOVE MY SIDE OF THE FENCE, IT'S MORE GREEN. # THE CHANGES THAT I SEE IN THESE BOYS ARE ASTRONOMICAL. HE'S AN INSPIRATION. YEAH, HE'S PRETTY KICKED BACK, AND HE'S LIKE ONE OF THE BOYS. CHEVRON TE-WHETUMATARAU HASSETT IS ALSO AN ARTIST AND PHOTOGRAPHER, USING HIS LENS TO EXPLORE HIS WHAKAPAPA. I FOUND IT IS A REALLY AWESOME TOOL FOR ME TO EXPRESS MYSELF AND FOR ME TO LEARN ABOUT THE WORLD, AND I DIDN'T REALISE HOW POWERFUL IT WAS. NEXT WEEK ` A STORY ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF WHANAU AND KNOWING WHERE YOU'RE FROM. FROM UNDERSTANDING MORE ABOUT MY WHAKAPAPA, IT'S HELPED ME WALK FORWARD CONFIDENTLY IN THE WORLD. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY, HUI HOPPERS. OK, THAT TIME AGAIN. FOR 20 WEEKS, WE'VE ATTEMPTED TO SPEAK WITH THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL HOUSING, PAULA BENNETT, AND FOR ALL OF THOSE 20 WEEKS, THE INVITATION HAS BEEN DECLINED ` THIS FROM A MINISTER WHO IS SAID TO HARBOUR LEADERSHIP AMBITIONS. WE HAVE ALSO MADE NUMEROUS REQUESTS TO NICK SMITH, MINISTER OF HOUSING NZ AND THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR THE KERMADECS OCEAN SANCTUARY DEBACLE. HE TOO REFUSES TO FRONT UP ON OUR PROGRAMME. IT BEGS THE QUESTION, DO MINISTERS OF THE CROWN, WHO RECEIVE A TAXPAYER-FUNDED SALARY, HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO FRONT UP AND EXPLAIN THEIR DECISIONS? KUA TAKOTO TE MANUKA. KAATI. YOU'LL FIND LINKS TO THE SHOW ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE AND ON TWITTER @THE HUI TV3. OTHERWISE, CHECK US OUT ON THE 3NOW WEBSITE. KUA HIKINA TE HUI MO TENEI RA. MAURI ORA KI A TATOU. Captions by Desney Shaw and Faith Hamblyn. www.able.co.nz Captions were made possible with funding from NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2016.