MORENA, GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` WE'VE GOT A GREAT RESULT. WE FEEL PROUD OF THAT BUT ALSO QUITE HUMBLED. THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK TO DO TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF MT ROSKILL NEXT YEAR AND MORE WORK TO DO TO TRY AND CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT NEXT YEAR. THE PUNDITS MOSTLY GOT IT WRONG. THE VOTERS OF MT ROSKILL HANDED LABOUR'S MICHAEL WOOD A SUBSTANTIAL MAJORITY IN ITS BY-ELECTION. HE TALKS TO JESSICA MUTCH ABOUT THE TASK AHEAD. THEN JESSICA HAS AN EXTENDED INTERVIEW WITH LABOUR LEADER ANDREW LITTLE. A WIN IN MT ROSKILL, BUT TWO POLITICAL POLLS THIS WEEK HAVE LABOUR LANGUISHING. CAN THE PARTY TURN AROUND ITS FORTUNES IN TIME FOR NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION? AND THEN ANDREA VANCE HAS AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH NATIONAL MP PAUL FOSTER BELL. WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO COME OUT TODAY AND TALK OPENLY, PUBLICLY, ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY? DUE TO THE LIVE NATURE OF Q+A, WE APOLOGISE FOR THE LACK OF CAPTIONS FOR SOME ITEMS. AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL, POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR RAYMOND MILLER, FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY, DR DEBORAH RUSSELL ` SHE WAS THE LABOUR CANDIDATE FOR RANGITIKEI IN 2014 AND IS A SENIOR LECTURER AT MASSEY UNIVERSITY'S SCHOOL OF ACCOUNTANCY ` AND FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRESIDENT PR PRACTITIONER MICHELLE BOAG. BUT FIRST HERE'S JESS. THANKS, GREG. AND WE'LL START WITH LABOUR'S VICTORY LAST NIGHT IN MT ROSKILL. IN THE PRELIMINARY RESULTS, MICHAEL WOODS HAS 11,170 VOTES; NATIONAL'S PARMJEET PARMAR JUST 4652. THAT'S A MAJORITY OF 6500 FOR MICHAEL WOOD, WHO JOINS ME NOW. When number started coming in, how much of a relief was it for you? There was a lot riding on it. We felt positive going into the night, but the results exceeded our expectations by a big margin. We won in places that Labour has never everyone before. Did you feel that pressure? Was a lot riding on your shoulders? That this was a do or die for Andrew Little? We started campaigning 6 months ago. In the final week we felt positively would get a good result. There was a Phil Goff factor. Are you a mini version of him? Hardly get out of a shadow? There are values I share with him. But I will be coming from a different perspective. I have to cut my own way as well. How would he do that in the next couple of months? What I want to do in the next few months is go back to the grassroots and reconnect to the people and groups. I already have a pile of constituent issues to pick up. Just getting on the work of being a good local MP. We start that tomorrow. You have been selling Labour's message. On the ground, how are people absorbing that message? Labour's and doing well in the polls. The polls come and go, but what matters is our ability to talk about the issues and when peoples trust and support. We were able to do that by keeping the issues and the message is relevant to People's lives and keeping them simple. We didn't there are 1000 different policies out there. Are you seeing this as a win? For Labour? Because Labour is said to be not resonating with people. We have strong organisation coming in behind it, when we put it together with a crisp and simple message, people respond to us. But you didn't have the greens are NZ 1st in that mix. Granted, it's a big majority but he didn't have that play. But it's the same for national they didn't have conservative or ACT Party. We are very pleased with our results. We've got good messages and an excellent messenger. We just have to pull that together and work are backsides off. That was our lesson and Mt Roskill. You put the groundwork in. That's the lesson we learned. We work for 6 months. One-to-one old-fashioned communication, which we did quite systematically with all the issues. Giving Andrew Little needs to do that? He does do that. Our messages are resonating. People voted for us. Of course we have to multiply that 73 times over the the other electorates. Andrew Little needs to keep doing what he's doing now. Housing, crime, keeping it simple congratulations on your new job. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER ` @NZQANDA. YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A@TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF; EACH TEXT COSTS 50C. LABOUR LEADER ANDREW LITTLE IS HERE AFTER THE BREAK. HIS PARTY WON BY A LANDSLIDE LAST NIGHT IN MT ROSKILL. WHAT DOES HE THINK IT MEANS FOR LABOUR'S CHANCES IN THE NEXT ELECTION? LABOUR LEADER ANDREW LITTLE JOINS ME IN THE STUDIO. It must be a big relief for you yesterday. What does the win in Mt Roskill mean for you? It is very satisfying. It shows us that if we stick to the issues that people care about We had an excellent candidate as well, and then we win. We saw the same thing in the local body elections as well. The machine in the techniques we used to deliver, deliver great victories around the country. It's organisation. We need a conference of people, talk to people. Didn't you just learned that without the greens, without NZ 1st and without a very strong national candidate, you guys can win? And with that act and the conservative party. I don't think that was relevant at all. We took the issue seriously. We campaigned as if we meant it. What you mean by that? We take the voters in the issue seriously. Is that what has been missing? Well the campaign we saw from national was that the Prime Minister would turn up and do selfies. Why is not that resonating? Is it the person delivering the message that is not? I am talking about national now. We are not going to campaign on 140 policies. We will stick to the core chunk of policies ` the ones that are relative. Affordable housing. The idea that young couples can't afford to buy their 1st home. This is wrong. Let's get this right. A 96-year-old woman's living in her own home; choose getting one hour and a half of care weekend that was taking off her. Letters stick to the questions, Mr Lehto. Everyone's sharing a decent life. This great victory had last night, it hasn't been resonating in the polls. Labour was just on 28%. What I'm happy is when real people go out in the real election. Just like last night, with a proper campaign. It's not just our poll, is it? It's also other polls. We have seen how these polls are checking in other parts of the world as well. People have to go out and cast the vote. Let's put aside the local body and focus on your party. What is your internal polling saying? It's a little better than that. I have talked about it before. I go back to that point. We've already seen these polls before. When people actually go out and vote, when they heard the issues and they've spoken with us, what happens is we win elections. Let's have a look at you and the greens together. Now you need to add that the greens. Labour used to be able to bring in 40% on its own. How comfortable are you with greens and labored together? We've always had to work with other parties. Outside of the house, we've had bigger support than on the right-wing side of the house. That is just the reality. What we demonstrated is that we are prepared to commit and cooperate to change the government. That is what we've done. But we have worked with other opposition parties do. Our objective is to change the government. That means getting our campaigning right. What are they missing out on? The people who are missing out? I talked about that 96-year-old woman who lost her home care. There's 45,000 mainly elderly people who went to the doctor last year and the doctor said they had to get treatment in the hospital and the hospital says they can't be treated. 41,000 Nzers are homeless. 75,000 kids who are not in work, education or training. That figure has not changed the last 8 years. The growing economy is not benefiting them. Too many Nzers are missing out on decent living. What I want to get your perspective on is the voting ideology. He already said you don't need to focus as much on the centre ground. Is that because you feel a whole lot of voters out to the left were not voting and can become potential Labour voters? Is that your strategy? We can talk about any side, but it's irrelevant. In the end, what it comes down to is talking to people about their issues, and there will be big issues. There will be times where the solution might seem at one point left wing, sometimes right wing, in the end most voters don't think of themselves as left right or centre. They think about themselves as citizens in the country where they have a right for a fair go. Are you taking heart from the left in the UK? Like Jeremy Corbin? What gives me a boost is that when we go in front of the voters, they actually go out and vote. As with Mt Roskill yesterday. We campaigned on issues that we know because we've spoken to them, and we went. That is what gives me heart. I don't pay attention to what happens in other jurisdictions. I haven't followed that closely in the UK. What I focus on is what is right for Nzer Nzers, our track record this year on campaigning well. In terms of the 28%, where voters going? I think what has happened from talking to people, is that a lot of people have gone off the national government. But on 28%, where have they gone? They are all over the place just waiting to be convinced. What we have seen is that when people hear a clean message from us, then we win the support. You say that your votes all over the place. Then you can bank loans, because NZ 1st would potentially go with you and green said they would. Don't you think you need to focus on those national voters were swinging in the middle? They are drifting off national. They are drifting off Labour's well. There are a lot of people who are disillusioned. There is a recklessness in the superannuation issue. People are looking around. That is what we pick up. When we talk to people, and we campaigned hard, they come to us. I'm very confident about 2017. We have proven this year. Can we talk about Nick Legett now. He decided to go with national recently. There are people who were with Labour and decided to go with the greens. How alarming is that? You mentioned to people. This is a democracy. I don't buy into the rhetoric of Nick going to the national party. This guy claims to be Labour, but when it was a portion listed for him, he hooked up with national people. But I don't buy into this. He is not an icon of Labour. NICK is an opportunist. People like Chloe as well. She doesn't see a place in labour. We have to be careful about drawing conclusions from just 2 people. We need more people like her around what does that affect Labour? No, it doesn't. We have a good balance. You till the Labour Party at the recent conference that you weren't a show pony. Don't you need to be a little bit? You're representing and selling the Labour Party in representing MPs who work for Labour. You have to be able to step up andget your message across with the crowd. But what voters want to know is that the people there putting into government are people who understand the issues and people were prepared to listen. I think Nzers are driven by a sense of values about what sort of country NZ is. It should be a country where everybody gets a good start. People can complain about my glasses and my ears etc. But it's about character and determination and conviction. It's about getting out to NZ is in communicating with them. You can have as much character as you can, but if you not selling it you've got to have a better show pony, don't you? The Prime Minister, their show point he turned up 7 days before the elections. I turned out not collecting selfies but trying to win the vote. He made a big song and dance out of it. They have the Prime Minister, who they say is in his prime, but he was there to get the national party` the party vote favored national. This has been Mr Phil Goff seat for a long time. The whole thing is the national Prime Minister turned out there to get selfies. I take great heart in the results. Thank you very much. I'm a show pony too/. STAY WITH US. WE'LL BRING IN THE PANEL AFTER THE BREAK. SOME OF YOUR FEEDBACK NOW. AND MICHAEL WOOD'S WIN SEEMS TO HAVE PROVOKED A LOT OF RELIEF AND HAPPINESS AMONGST MANY WHO RESPONDED. ROSS HEWTON ON FACEBOOK SUMMED IT UP, SAYING 'A GREAT VICTORY FOR LABOUR AND PROGRESSIVE POLICIES. 'BRING ON THE MAIN EVENT.' SUE POCKETT ON EMAIL SAYS 'YET AGAIN THE POLLSTERS GET IT WRONG!' BUT JOHN BRYSON ON TWITTER SAYS 'MICKEY MOUSE WOULD HAVE WON FOR LABOUR IN MT ROSKILL. 'THE RESULT MEANS BUGGER ALL.' GARY BOYD ON TWITTER SAYS THE MT ROSKILL RESULT IS DUE TO WEAK NATIONAL CANDIDATE. DOES LABOUR HAVE DEPTH TO FIELD CREDIBLE CANDIDATES 'IN ALL ELECTORATES?" AND A FEW POINTING OUT THAT ANDREW LITTLE LOOKS AS THOUGH HE MAY HAVE HAD.. LET'S SAY A BIG NIGHT LAST NIGHT! LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL ` Is this going to be relief or victory for Labour this morning? Both. This is a morale boost for the party. Three or four leaders. It will give them quite a bit of impetus to look forward to 2017 and doing well in election year. It's a sense of relief. Michael Wood said he didn't expect it to be quite as good as it was. Also a sense of victory over national. National actually has lost two by-elections in a row ` 2015 in Northland and this one. Opposition parties generally win by-elections. national won the party vote in Mt Roskill. National is not to be overlooked. They were clearly out-organised. The message of Labour resonated with the voters. I don't think there was any real expectation that national was going to win this one. The fact that even Andrew little is talking about winning the party vote is silly. National lost a safe national seat last year, and it has made no difference to the polls. It's business as usual outcome, a morale booster for Labour. I felt Michael Wood outperformed Andrew Little this morning. But he is another white male in the Labour caucus. They like to say this is going ahead and is the big picture. Look at how much Michael Wood won by. It was clearly Phil Goff's seat. Michael took 67% of the vote last night because he connected with the people in the electorate. He had people volunteering out there and was knocking on doors himself. That personal connection stuff really matters. He was genuinely talking about the labour issues. I was doing it myself in Mt Roskill. Talking to voters about housing, transport and health. Let's get on to that. You have political aspirations. What are your plans? I will be seeking the nomination in New Lynn for next year. I understand it's going to be a wide-open field. Is Andrew Little guy you want to go into battle with? I grew up in new Plymouth at the same time as him. I've known him since I was 13. He is straightforward and a man of integrity. That's the character he is talking about. He is someone we can trust. He doesn't say one thing one day and then another a few days later. John Key does. The fact of the matter is that this isn't resonating with the polls. 28, it gets much worse than that and you start really panicking. We are seeing a National government that has enjoyed huge support for a long period of time, a Prime Minister who is immensely popular with the public. That makes it difficult regardless of who was up against him. Labour has been through three or four party leaders. Our expectations of Andrew Little are too high sometimes; we expect him to drag the party up into the late 30s, lower 40s. We see a lot of bluster from the likes of Nigel Farage and Donald Trump, and it's a style of leadership which may become more popular. I wouldn't rule him out by any means. Where 11 months away from the next election. That sounds like nonsense to me, like wishful thinking. There was a poll this week that gave the Labour Party 23%. The reason why Michael Wood has won so well was because there were no Green or New Zealand first candidates. Most people vote, and in an election their party voters on the big issues. I'd like to remind you that back in 1986 national won Timaru ofF Labour. By-elections are A funny animal because they only test the electorate vote. The real danger for Labour is misinterpreting this as some sort of indicator about something for the future. We're talking about labour and the greens here. The temptation is to look at polls and think Labour versus National. When you form a government, you form a government with other parties. We've seen strange things happen with public opinion polls in the last 12 months. The public can move very quickly. It would be unwise for National to be at all complacent in terms of their lead. It would be unwise for Labourthe think this is an indicator that everything is going well. Why wouldn't he share the internal polling? One of those was the Roy Morgan poll, which bounces all over the place. The Colmar Brunton poll, we are going up in that poll. We know that it's a 50/50 split between left and right. John Key's popularity is dropping. It's down to 36%. It's an ongoing fall. You can pick and choose what you want to read out of polls. We are getting a slow and consistent climb over time. You're not over 30%. You were over 30% with David Shearer. John key. He hasn't necessarily done anything wrong. Are they just tired of him? Looking towards a further three years in office, there's always this slight concern that people might have that his time might have run out. I don't see it happening yet, but there will come a time when people will tire of his style of leadership. People said that last time. People are getting a sense that they can't rely on John Key, that he says one thing and does another, like Pike River Mine. He said he would do everything possible to get them out, and that's been misinterpreted. If you have to explain it, you're losing. He is starting to be seen as untrustworthy and will say what he needs to win the moment but won't follow through on the promises. What about the flag, etc? Those have been failures that could really have hurt someone. Backing Helen Clark for the Security Council is not a failure for John Key. It didn't work. For eight years the Labour Party have been trying to portray John Key as someone who is not trustworthy. People don't believe it. The reason why he is popular and why people wanted to have selfies in Mt Roskill is because they love him and love to be seen by him. They think he epitomises what New Zealand is. Our economic story is better than everywhere else in the world. Everyone thinks we are amazing. John Key has put New Zealand back at the top of the pile economically. People like him for that. AFTER THE BREAK ` ANDREA VANCE HAS A VERY PERSONAL INTERVIEW WITH NATIONAL PAUL FOSTER-BELL. IT'S A COMPELLING WATCH. THAT'S NEXT. A WEEK AGO, NATIONAL MP PAUL FOSTER-BELL APPROACHED 1 NEWS REPORTER ANDREA VANCE WITH A STORY HE WANTED TO TELL. THE FIRST-TERM MP LIVES, WAS BORN AND RAISED ON A FARM NEAR WHANGAREI. HE HAD A CAREER AS A DIPLOMAT, AT ONE POINT BASED IN SAUDI ARABIA AND WORKING ACROSS A NUMBER OF GULF STATES. HE LIVES IN WELLINGTON CENTRAL. HE'S ALSO GAY ` WHICH IS SOMETHING HE'S NEVER TALKED ABOUT PUBLICLY BEFORE. BUT LAST WEEKEND HE DECIDED HE HAD TO. SO ANDREA SAT DOWN WITH HIM A FEW DAYS AGO, AND ASKED HIM WHY. WELL, LOOK, THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF THINGS OVER RECENT MONTHS, FROM EVENTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH GAY PEOPLE BEING THROWN OFF BUILDINGS, THROUGH TO EVEN CLOSER TO HOME, GAY PEOPLE BEING CRIMINALISED, BEING IMPRISONED AND WHIPPED IN SOME OF THE PACIFIC NATIONS. BUT ACTUALLY, IT WAS BRIAN TAMAKI'S OUTBURST A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT REALLY DID MAKE ME FURIOUS, AND IT MEANT THAT IT WAS TIME FOR ME, REALLY, TO SPEAK UP. IT WAS HIS COMMENTS ABOUT THE EARTHQUAKE ` THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. ABSOLUTELY. WHY WAS THAT A CATALYST FOR YOU TO BE MORE OPEN, AND WHAT DAMAGE DO YOU THINK THAT IT DID? WELL, LOOK, I THINK IN TERMS OF THE DAMAGE TO YOUNG PEOPLE ` PERHAPS YOUNG PEOPLE IN PROVINCIAL NZ WHO ARE QUESTIONING THEIR SEXUALITY, QUESTIONING THEIR OWN SELF-WORTH ` IT'S ACTUALLY THROWING PETROL ON A FIRE WHEN YOU SEND OUT A MESSAGE THAT GAY PEOPLE ARE VERY SIMILAR TO MURDERERS, THEY'RE SINNERS, AND THEY'RE CREATING NATURAL DISASTERS. YOU AND I CAN DISMISS THAT AS INTELLIGENT ADULTS AS JUST BEING LUDICROUS, BUT FOR THOSE KIDS, THAT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY HURTFUL THING AT AN ALREADY DIFFICULT TIME IN THEIR LIFE. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUNG TEENAGERS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY A FOUR TIMES HIGHER RISK OF DEPRESSION AND OF SUICIDE. SO I THINK WE HAD A MORAL OBLIGATION TO SPEAK UP AS A SOCIETY. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU IDENTIFY WITH? HAVE YOU STRUGGLED PREVIOUSLY WITH BEING OPEN ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY? TO SOME EXTENT, I SUPPOSE. GROWING UP IN PROVINCIAL NZ BACK IN THE '70S AND '80S, IT IS A CONSERVATIVE SOCIETY. AND I WAS REALLY LUCKY TO HAVE, ACTUALLY, VERY SUPPORTIVE, HARD-WORKING AND LOVING PARENTS. BUT I KNOW, ACTUALLY, MOST GAY MEN, AS THEY'RE GROWING UP, I CERTAINLY FELT MAYBE A SENSE OF DISAPPOINTMENT FROM DAD. HE ALWAYS WANTED THAT FIRST XV RUGBY PLAYER, AND I WAS HAPPIER WITH MY NOSE IN A BOOK OR PERHAPS HELPING MUM IN THE KITCHEN WITH SOME COOKING. SO I KNEW I WASN'T THAT PERSON, AND THAT SENSE OF DISAPPOINTMENT THAT KIDS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO, IT CAN BE A LITTLE BIT DAMAGING. SO YOUR FAMILY ARE SITTING AT HOME WATCHING THIS NOW. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WILL FEEL ABOUT YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS SO PUBLICLY AND SO OPENLY? WELL, LOOK, I HOPE` ACTUALLY, I KNOW THAT THEY'LL BE REALLY PROUD OF WHAT I'M DOING, BECAUSE THE PLATFORM THAT I'VE BEEN GIVEN HERE IN PARLIAMENT ALLOWS ME TO DO SOME GOOD IN SOCIETY. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD COME HERE TO BE SOMEBODY, TO BE AN MP; THEY NEED TO COME HERE TO DO SOMETHING. YOU'VE BEEN IN POLITICS FOR MORE THAN THREE YEARS NOW. SO DID YOU FEEL LIKE THIS WAS THE TIME? THE TIME WAS RIGHT NOW? DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU COULDN'T BE OPEN BEFORE NOW? DID YOU HAVE ANY PRESSURE PUT ON YOU BY YOUR COLLEAGUES? LOOK, NOT AT ALL, ACTUALLY. I HAVE BEEN IN PARLIAMENT FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, AND I THOUGHT THIS IS REALLY TIME NOT SO MUCH TO COME OUT; IT'S TIME TO SPEAK OUT. SO I'M ACTIVE IN THE COMMUNITY IN WELLINGTON. I'M A VICE-PATRON OF RAINBOW WELLINGTON, FOR INSTANCE. I WORK ON A CROSS-PARTY RAINBOW COMMITTEE ACROSS PARTY LINES, AND, ACTUALLY, IT WAS MY COLLEAGUES WHO PUT ME THERE, SO THIS WON'T COME AS A SURPRISE TO MY COLLEAGUES. BUT IT WAS THE EVENTS OF THIS YEAR ` YOU KNOW, A HOMOPHOBIC ADMINISTRATION IN THE US BEING ELECTED, THE RISE OF THE RIGHT IN EUROPE, BUT MORE RECENTLY THAT OUTRAGEOUS TIRADE FROM MR TAMAKI THAT REALLY MADE IT CLEAR TO ME THAT I HAD A MORAL OBLIGATION TO SPEAK OUT AND TO USE THE PLATFORM I HAVE, PARTICULARLY AS A GOVERNMENT MP FROM WITHIN INSIDE THE CAUCUS TEAM. THE OPPOSITION HAVE A NUMBER OF GAY MPS, BUT, ACTUALLY, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WITHIN THE TEAM THAT'S RUNNING THE COUNTRY, WE ALSO HAVE THAT COMMUNITY REPRESENTED, AND I WANT TO TAKE A LEADERSHIP ROLE THERE. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND YOU FEEL QUITE STRONGLY ABOUT IT, BUT CAN I BE A LITTLE BIT CYNICAL HERE AND SUGGEST THAT THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE TIMING HERE. YOU ARE FACING A PARTICULARLY TOUGH SELECTION BATTLE. HAS THIS GOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS OPENNESS? IT GOES BACK OVER A YEAR, ACTUALLY, AND IT'S BEEN SOMETHING I'VE BEEN WORKING ON MORE BEHIND THE SCENES, AND WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO A PRIVATE LIFE AND IT'S NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS, THAT'S FINE, BUT WHEN YOU SEE THESE PROBLEMS OUT THERE AND THEY'RE EXACERBATED BY PEOPLE LIKE MR TAMAKI, WE HAVE TO STAND UP. WE HAVE AN ABSOLUTE COMPELLING MORAL OBLIGATION, PARTICULARLY AS A GAY MP, TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO HELP THOSE KIDS, THOSE VULNERABLE KIDS, WHO ARE AT RISK. SO IS THIS A BIT OF AN OPEN SECRET? DO YOU THINK YOUR CAUCUS COLLEAGUES WILL BE SURPRISED? AND DID YOU ACTUALLY ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM THE PARTY TO DO THIS INTERVIEW? LOOK, WE'RE FREE INDIVIDUALS IN NATIONAL, AND I DON'T THINK PERMISSION IS REQUIRED, BUT I CERTAINLY SPOKE TO OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT IT BEFORE I DID IT AND WAS REALLY AFFIRMED IN DOING THAT. I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A SURPRISE. IT'S NOT A SECRET AT ALL. AS I SAY, I'VE BEEN ACTIVE BOTH ON THE POLITICAL SIDE AROUND PARLIAMENT. THIS IS ABOUT GETTING OUTSIDE OF THAT VERY COSY WELLINGTON BUBBLE, IF YOU LIKE, WHERE WE ARE LIBERAL, WE'RE ACCEPTING HERE, AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY IN PROVINCIAL NZ, THERE IS A LITTLE LESS ACCEPTANCE, I THINK, FOR GAY PEOPLE. SO I WANT TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE AND USE THE PLATFORM I HAVE IN PARLIAMENT, JUST THE SAME WAY MR TAMAKI'S USING HIS TAX-EXEMPT PLATFORM AS A SELF-APPOINTED BISHOP TO SEND THE OPPOSITE MESSAGE. CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE? YOU'VE BEEN PUTTING SOME PRESSURE ON ERO TO DO SOME WORK IN THAT AREA TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THEIR SEXUALITY. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE. SO THE EDUCATIONAL REVIEW OFFICE, IT GOES INTO SCHOOLS, AND THEY CHECK UP ON HOW SAFE A BUILDING IS OR IS THE EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT UP TO WHAT WE'D EXPECT. BUT WE'RE PUTTING PRESSURE ON THEM TO ADD TO THEIR LIST OF PRIORITIES ON THE THINGS THEY CHECK UP ON HOW HOMOPHOBIC BULLYING'S BEING DEALT WITH, THE HARASSMENT OF GAY STUDENTS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IN OUR SCHOOLS THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOUR'S LEADING TO TEENAGE DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE. AND WE'RE ACTUALLY DENYING OUR COUNTRY SO MUCH POTENTIAL. YOU THINK ABOUT ALAN TURING, WHO CREATED OUR MODERN WORLD OF COMPUTERS, TOOK HIS OWN LIFE DUE TO HOMOPHOBIA IN SOCIETY. I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT OUR SCHOOLS IN NZ, IT'S A SIMILAR THING. WE'RE LOSING SO MUCH POTENTIAL. YOUNG PEOPLE WHO COULD CONTRIBUTE A LOT TO OUR COUNTRY, WHO ARE FAILING AT SCHOOL, NOT DOING WELL AT UNI AND, EVEN WORSE, PERHAPS NOT FUNCTIONING WELL AS MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY BECAUSE OF THAT. YOU MENTIONED THE DIFFICULTIES GROWING UP, BUT HAS IT BEEN DIFFICULT BEING GAY IN THE FOREIGN SERVICE, YOUR PREVIOUS CAREER, AND THEN MOVING INTO POLITICS? IN SOME WAYS IT HAS, ACTUALLY. IT HAS BEEN CHALLENGING. SO IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS, WHEN YOU'RE BASICALLY A PUBLIC SERVANT BACK IN WELLINGTON, IT'S A VERY OPEN AND MODERN, PROGRESSIVE ENVIRONMENT YOU'RE IN. BUT MY OVERSEAS POSTINGS WERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IN PLACES LIKE IRAN AND SAUDI ARABIA, WHERE IF YOU WERE AN OPENLY GAY DIPLOMAT THERE, YOU'D RISK PERHAPS BEING MADE PERSONA NON GRATA; THAT IS, PUT ON THE NEXT PLANE OUT OF THE COUNTRY, BOOTED OUT AND LOSE YOUR JOB. BUT WORST STILL, THE PERSON WHO YOU WERE WITH IS A CRIMINAL. THAT PERSON COULD BE EXECUTED, HAVE PARTS AMPUTATED. IT'S HORRIFIC THE TREATMENT OF GAY PEOPLE IN SOME COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD. SO THAT WAS A CHALLENGE, AND THAT'S WHY FOR THAT PART OF MY CAREER I WAS DISCREET. THAT WAS A NECESSARY LEVEL OF DISCRETION. BUT IT IS WORRYING WHEN YOU THINK IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY YOU MIGHT FALL IN LOVE WITH SOMEBODY AND THAT COULD LEAD TO THAT PERSON BEING KILLED OR IMPRISONED. IT'S A HUGE WORRY. AND IN SOME WAYS IT MADE ME MORE PASSIONATE IN OTHER AREAS OF MY JOB, LIKE ACTUALLY DELIVERING STRONG MESSAGES ON HUMAN RIGHTS TO THOSE REGIMES. SO DID YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A POSITION WHERE YOU PERHAPS MET SOMEONE THAT YOU DID CARE FOR AND YOU FELT LIKE YOU COULDN'T TAKE THAT RELATIONSHIP FURTHER BECAUSE OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEM? DID YOU HOLD BACK? YES. THAT HAPPENED? CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT? LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT, ANDREA, PARTIALLY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STILL UNSAFE. PEOPLE WHO ARE BACK IN THOSE COUNTRIES ARE STILL UNSAFE. THAT MUST HAVE BEEN HEART-BREAKING, THOUGH. IT REALLY IS. SO IN POLITICS, HAS A SIMILAR THING HAPPENED? HAVE YOU BEEN REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT YOUR PARTNERS OR THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'VE, PERHAPS, DATED BECAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT A BACKLASH BECAUSE YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC EYE? NOT REALLY. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN DATING FOR ABOUT NINE MONTHS A LOVELY, AMAZING GUY WHO IS COMPLETELY UN-POLITICAL AND IS REALLY, REALLY PRIVATE AND DOESN'T WANT TO BE PUBLICISED IN ANY WAY. SO I'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE A MUCH CLOSER TO A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP IN THIS ROLE. AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF NZ. BUT IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL, IF WE DON'T PRESERVE WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT OUR COUNTRY ` THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED ACCORDING TO THEIR MERITS, NOT ACCORDING TO THEIR SEXUALITY ` THEN WE RISK SLIDING BACK TO WHERE THE UNITED STATES IS GOING AT THE MOMENT. WELL, OBVIOUSLY, NOT WANTING TO OUT ANYONE OR EMBARRASS ANYONE OR FORCE ANYONE OUT OF THE CLOSET, BUT IS THERE A DANGER THAT THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS THAT THERE ARE NO GAY MPS IN NATIONAL? ISN'T THAT AN IMAGE PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE? LOOK, I DON'T THINK SO, PARTIALLY BECAUSE I'M DOING THIS NOW AND SAYING, YES, THERE IS; I'M HERE. BUT WE'VE HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS IN OUR LIVES. WE HAVE MPS WHO NOW ARE OPENLY GAY WHO WERE NATIONAL MPS HISTORICALLY. AND I THINK OF, FOR INSTANCE, PROFESSOR MARILYN WARING BACK IN THE EARLY 1980S, WHO WAS QUITE WELL KNOWN FOR HER STOUSH WITH PRIME MINISTER ROB MULDOON BACK IN THOSE DAYS. SO NATIONAL HASN'T BEEN A COMPLETE DESERT FOR GAY PEOPLE, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE A STRONG VOICE HERE, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M HOPING TO BE. DO YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE IN THE GAY COMMUNITY DON'T WANT TO STAND FOR NATIONAL? THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'LL BE THE ONLY GAY IN THE VILLAGE, IF YOU LIKE? THERE'S NOT A SPACE FOR THEM OR ROOM FOR THEM? LOOK, I THINK THE CHANGE WE'VE SEEN, PARTICULARLY IN THE RECENT DECADE OR SO, HAS BEEN THAT BARRIER'S BROKEN DOWN, AND CERTAINLY THERE ARE GAY PEOPLE COMING FORWARD AS CANDIDATES. I KNOW I'VE HAD A GAY ELECTORATE CHAIR, OUR YOUNG NATS CHAIR, PRESIDENTS OF THE YOUNG NATS, AT LEAST THREE THAT I CAN THINK OF HAVE BEEN OPENLY GAY. SO, LOOK, I THINK THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE CASE ONCE, BUT IT ISN'T NOW, AND IT CERTAINLY WON'T BE IN THE FUTURE. NATIONAL MP PAUL FOSTER-BELL SPEAKING TO ANDREA VANCE. Your reaction to that? I think it underlines the diversity of the National party. Marilyn Waring goes back 30 or 40 years As an openly gay MP. The National party has always been a broad church. Nothing has changed; business as usual. I think there is a valid point about people thinking that national is homophobic. It's not. It's interesting to note that Waring was from a rural constituency. It was 30-odd years ago. It does seem like a desert In between. Good on Paul. I think he is right to say that it really helps young people around the country if leadership is out about being gay. I hope he hasn't been pushed into this by someone threatening him in some way. We know that happens to gay people. The thing that worries me is that if there is a political aspect to it. We know that he is being challenged for the nomination in Wellington Central. Showing he has some real value to offer. In 2016 in New Zealand, does anybody really care? Grant Robertson, nobody calls the gay politician. he is just Grant Robertson. I entirely agree. 2016, to what extent is that an issue? Good on him. If he wants to come out and speak out, that's great, but it is 2016. WE'LL STAY WITH OUR PANEL AFTER THE BREAK AND TAKE SOME OF YOUR FEEDBACK. PLUS, A LOOK BACK AT THE DAYS OF ALCOHOL PROHIBITION. MT ROSKILL IS ONE OF A FEW AREAS THAT STAYED DRY. A BIT MORE FEEDBACK NOW. Burn! Bit out of left field. 2017, there is going to be a few changes. Let's start with Paul ` he's going to have challenges. But there are going to be changes in national as well. Everybody has to renew itself. It didn't happen in Labour in the early 2000s. This is one of the criticisms of Helen Clark's government. They had problems to deal with afterwards. John Key has been very effective at managing the departure of Mps who have been in Parliament too long or have not done enough to justify their re-election. He has been good at doing it in a way that hasn't rebounded against him or his government. Is that something Labour could take a leaf from? I think we are starting to see that. David Cunliffe is moving on. Proportionally we are asking people to move on. We know the national party does tap into its network of business resources to find jobs for the people it's asking to leave. They are being moved on rather than ousted. The Labour Party doesn't do that. Former Labour Mps managed to get them self on... Many of them are still there. John Key does roll that through. I would never predict no shocks. John Key got into Parliament as a result of a challenge of a sitting MP in a safe seat. He is not scared of that, neither should he be. Judith Collins got into Parliament the same year, the same way. That was challenging and MP who had been told he should go, and he didn't. He paid the price. The National party has very well-established systems and is good at managing these challenges. Even know you might get some fallout in election year, when somebody might stand as an independent candidate, when the election was over they may not get many votes. It's been a deliberate policy of John Key to bring in fresh blood. The National party has benefited from it. At times there have been people who've been quite surprised that they've been picked to be moved on. There was a time when Mps were elected for life. They were there for decades. I think now people are coming into Parliament younger and leaving earlier and building a career after they have been in Parliament. I think that will continue. As for Labour, Nick Leggatt has gone. I certainly hope to come in. We have some tremendous people around the country. I want to pick up on something about Chloe Swarbrick, and people saying the Greens have been getting all the young people. Mr Brook, there was a whole Cadre of young Labour activist people coming through. If the poll numbers keep going like they are, or don't improve, realistically is Andrew Little going to be the leader of Labour at the next general election? Yes. They can't afford to have another leader. They have had too many already. The system they have adopted makes it virtually impossible for caucus to choose a different leader without the approval of that strong union rock. NEW MP FOR MT ROSKILL WILL REPRESENT AN ELECTORATE VERY DIFFERENT TO THE ONE PHIL GOFF FIRST TOOK ON BACK IN THE '80S. THEN IT WAS KNOWN AS THE BIBLE BELT, WITH THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF CHURCHES PER CAPITA THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN NZ. IT WAS ALSO ONE OF JUST FOUR AREAS IN NZ THAT REMAINED DRY; PUBS AND WINE SHOPS WERE BANNED. HERE'S A 1988 STORY FOR TVNZ'S TOP HALF PROGRAMME. ROSKILL, EDEN AND GREY LYNN REMAIN THE LAST BASTIONS OF THE TEMPERANCE MOVEMENT THAT HIT ITS HEYDAY 70 YEARS AGO. IN 1918 THE MOVEMENT, LED BY THE WOMEN'S CHRISTIAN TEMPERANCE UNION, CAME WITHIN 3000 VOTE, SWINGING THE COUNTRY TO PROHIBITION, FOILED ONLY BY THE SOLDIERS' VOTE. TODAY THE REASONS WHY THE THREE SUBURBS STILL HOLD OUT AGAINST THE DEMON DRINK ARE MORE COMPLEX, BUT THE BAN ON LIQUOR STILL OWES SOMETHING TO THE STRONG RELIGIOUS LOBBY. I KNOW IT HAS BEEN A FACTOR IN PREVIOUS LOCAL BODY ELECTIONS IN MT ROSKILL. NATURALLY, IT'S VERY HARD TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE EXTENT. THE CHURCHES ` THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, AND OTHERS ` ARE VERY STRONG IN MT ROSKILL AREA. THE EARLY VOTE COUNT INDICATES THE THREE SUBURBS WILL STAY DRY. MOST LOCALS VIEW THE IDEA OF A PUB IN THEIR AREA WITH DEEP SUSPICION. I'M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC AT ALL, SO... WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A PUB HERE? NO, NOT REALLY. DON'T WANT A PUB HERE. I THINK THAT IF SOMEBODY TRIED TO OPEN A HOTEL IN AN AREA LIKE THIS, THEY'D HAVE SO MUCH OPPOSITION FROM THE LOCAL RESIDENTS, ANYWAY. IT'D BE VERY GOOD. WHY WOULD YOU LIKE A PUB IN THIS AREA? WELL, THERE'S NONE ROUND HERE. THE CLOSEST IS THE RSA IN AVONDALE ` FOR ME. EDEN, ROSKILL AND GREY LYNN LOOK CERTAIN TO UPHOLD THEIR 80-YEAR BAN ON PUBS, SO, AS THE SONG SAYS... # ... THERE'LL ALWAYS BE A HONKY TONK SOMEWHERE. # BUT NOT HERE, THANKS VERY MUCH. Pink cardigan and all. AND MT ROSKILL CHANGED ITS MIND ON THAT IN 1999 WHEN RESIDENTS VOTED TO END THE PROHIBITION ON SELLING ALCOHOL. WAKA HUIA IS NEXT. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35 PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. IT'S OUR LAST PROGRAMME FOR THE YEAR NEXT SUNDAY. DO JOIN US. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS, AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS. THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY GLENNA CASALME AND IMOGEN STAINES. CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016.