E PA TO HAU, HE WINI RARO, HE HOMAI AROHA. KIA TANGI ATU AU I KONEI, HE AROHA KI TE IWI. KA MOMOTU KI TAWHITI, KI PAERAU. KEI AKU NUI, KEI AKU RAHI E POWHIRITIA ANA KOUTOU KI TE HUI. KO MIHINGARANGI TENEI, E MIHI ATU NEI. NAU MAI, PIKI MAI, KAKE MAI RA. THIS IS THE HUI'S SPECIAL BROADCAST FOR THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016 APPLAUSE KARAHUIHUI MAI AND WELCOME TO THE HUI, MAORI CURRENT AFFAIRS FOR ALL NZERS. THIS IS A SPECIAL EPISODE ` OUR LAST FOR THIS YEAR, AND IT'S BROUGHT TO YOU FROM TAMAKI PAENGA HIRA ` THE AUCKLAND WAR MEMORIAL MUSEUM. TODAY, WITH OUR TREATY PARTNERS AT BRIDGET WILLIAMS BOOKS, WE'RE HOSTING A HUI TO MARK THE PUBLICATION OF THE BOOK THE 'GREAT WAR FOR NZ', VINCENT O'MALLEY'S GROUNDBREAKING ACCOUNT OF THE WAIKATO WARS. WE'RE JOINED BY A LIVE AUDIENCE AND BY NGATI MANIAPOTO, WAIKATO SENIOR LECTURER DR TOM ROA... APPLAUSE ...AND OF COURSE BY THE AUTHOR OF 'THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ', HISTORIAN VINCENT O'MALLEY. APPLAUSE BEFORE WE BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE EVENTS THAT LEAD TO NZ'S WAR. THE WAIRAU AFFRAY WAS THE FIRST ARMED CONFLICT BETWEEN MAORI AND PAKEHA. IT WAS FOUGHT BETWEEN TE RAUPARAHA AND REPRESENTATIVES FOR THE NZ COMPANY JUST THREE YEARS AFTER THE SIGNING OF THE TREATY. THEY WERE TRYING TO CLEAR MAORI OFF LAND, WHICH LATER PROVED TO BE PURCHASED BY DUBIOUS MEANS. TWO YEARS LATER, IN 1845, HONE HEKE'S FLAGSTAFF WAR IN THE BAY OF ISLANDS SPARKED FIGHTING, WHICH SPREAD ACROSS THE NORTH AND ENDED IN THE BATTLE OF RUAPEKAPEKA. FURTHER CONFLICTS BROKE OUT IN THE HUTT VALLEY, WHANGANUI AND WAITARA, BUT IT WAS THE WAIKATO WARS THAT CHANGED OUR NATION. IN 1863, 10,000 IMPERIAL TROOPS WERE SENT TO NZ TO ATTACK THE KINGITANGA'S STRONGHOLD. ON JULY 12TH 1863, LIEUTENANT-GENERAL CAMERON LED IMPERIAL TROOPS ACROSS THE MANGATAWHIRI RIVER, SIGNALLING THE BEGINNING OF THE LAND INVASIONS AT MEREMERE, NGARUAWAHIA, RANGIRIRI, RANGIAOWHIA, HARINI AND ORAKAU. IT'S THESE CONFLICTS THAT ARE THE FOCUS OF VINCENT O'MALLEY'S BOOK 'THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ'. VINCENT, YOU ARGUE THERE IT'S THE WAIKATO WAR RATHER THAN WORLD WAR ONE WHICH WAS NZ'S WAR. WHY IS THAT? I THINK BECAUSE THE WAIKATO WAR IS REALLY A BATTLE BETWEEN TWO COMPETING VISIONS OF THE NATION'S FUTURE, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU'VE GOT MAORI ASPIRATIONS FOR MUTUAL PROSPERITY AND PARTNERSHIP OF THE KIND THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING THROUGH MUCH OF THE 1840S AND 1850S. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'VE GOT THE CROWN'S DESIRE FOR` TO ASSERT ITS UNRIVALLED SOVEREIGNTY AND ALSO, OF COURSE TO OPEN UP MAORI LANDS TO EUROPEAN SETTLEMENT. AND SO THESE THINGS COME INTO PLAY IN THE WAIKATO WAR, AND THE RESULTS OF THAT WAR SEE THE TREATY OF WAITANGI CAST ASIDE FOR THE NEXT CENTURY OR MORE. HUGE NUMBERS OF MAORI ARE RENDERED LANDLESS, AND GENERATIONS ARE REDUCED TO LIVES OF POVERTY AS A RESULT. SO THAT REALLY PROSPEROUS AND THRIVING ECONOMY THAT MAORI HAD DEVELOPED BEFORE THE WAR IS DESTROYED LITERALLY OVERNIGHT. AND THE WAR HAS OTHER, KIND OF, MAJOR CONSEQUENCES FOR THE SHAPING OF THE NATION AS WELL. FOR ONE THING, IT'S KIND OF A KEY THING THAT ENSURES THE NORTH ISLAND GOES AHEAD OF THE SOUTH ISLAND, EVENTUALLY, AND ALSO, IT ASSURES THAT THAT THE` AUCKLAND'S DOMINANT POSITION AS THE MAIN SETTLEMENT AS WELL. SO THESE ARE REALLY PROFOUND SIGNIFICANCES, UM, ARISING OUT OF THAT WAR THAT I THINK PEOPLE DON'T APPRECIATE. IN THE WAIKATO CONFLICTS THAT WE'VE READ ABOUT, WHICH OF THOSE WERE THE MOST DEVASTATING FOR YOU AND YOUR IWI? ALL OF THEM. UH, EVERY ENCOUNTER, UM, SKIRMISHES PRIOR TO THE CROSSING OF THE MANGATAWHIRI WERE THREATENING OF HOME AND HEARTH FOR THOSE HERE IN AUCKLAND. AND THEN WHEN THEY WERE FORCIBLY REMOVED, UH, FURTHER INTO THE WAIKATO, AND WHEN THEY WERE FORCIBLY REMOVED FROM THE WAIKATO INTO THE KING COUNTRY. UH, WIREMU TAMIHANA ` HE SAID, 'NO TE TAENGA KI TE KOHURU I RANGIAOWHIA, 'KATAHI AU KA MOHIO HE TINO PAKANGA NUI TENEI, NO NIU TIRENI. WHAT HAPPENED AT RANGIAOWHIA? SO, ON A SUNDAY IN FEBRUARY, 1500 OF THE MOST POWERFUL ARMY IN THE WORLD AT THAT TIME ATTACKED A VILLAGE OF ABOUT 200 OLD MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, SACKED THE VILLAGE, SETTING FIRE TO HOUSES, HOMES. OUR TERM FOR THAT WAS TE PAHUATANGA I RANGIAOWHIA ` THE ATROCITIES DEALT TO OUR PEOPLE AT RANGIAOWHIA. VINCENT, I'VE HEARD RANGIAOWHIA DESCRIBED AS 'THE FOOD BASKET OF THE WAIKATO'. WHAT` WHAT WENT ON THERE? RANGIAOWHIA WAS AT` ONE OF THE KEY AGRICULTURAL CENTRES, SO THIS WAS A PLACE WHERE ALL OF THE PRODUCE IS BEING GROWN TO SEND TO AUCKLAND TO FEED THE SETTLERS. AND IT'S SEEN AS A STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT SIGHT TO ATTACK, BECAUSE OF ITS ROLE IN PROVIDING FOOD TO WAIKATO-TAINUI DURING THE WAR. BUT IT'S ALSO A PLACE OF REFUGE FOR WOMEN, CHILDREN AND THE ELDERLY. AND AFTER THE BATTLE OF RANGIRIRI IN NOVEMBER 1853, GOVERNOR GREY WRITES TO KINGITANGA LEADERS, AND HE SAYS, 'PLEASE DON'T BRING YOUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN 'INTO THE FIGHTING PA AGAIN. TAKE THEM SOMEWHERE SAFE.' AND SO THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THE OLD MEN GO TO RANGIAOWHIA; THE MESSAGE IS PASSED BACK TO THE CROWN THAT THAT'S WHERE THEY ARE. AND SO THERE'S A NATURAL ASSUMPTION THAT THAT PLACE WON'T BE ATTACKED. SO` I MEAN, THIS IS A SCENE OF REAL TERROR. IT'S` AS TOM SAYS, IT'S DAWN ON A SUNDAY MORNING, AND YOU HAVE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES. THERE ARE PEOPLE INSIDE A HUT THAT IS DELIBERATELY TORCHED BY TROOPS. ONE OLD MAN COMES OUT AND TRIES TO SURRENDER AND IS SHOT. AND SO THE OTHERS DON'T EVEN ATTEMPT TO COME OUT, AND SO THEY'RE BURNT TO DEATH IN THE HUT. SO, YOU KNOW, REAL ATROCITIES ARE COMMITTED AT THIS PLACE. WHEN YOU WERE RESEARCHING THIS BOOK, DID YOU COME ACROSS ACCOUNTS THAT HAD BEEN SANITISED? WELL, I THINK, UH, VERY MUCH SO, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT FOR MUCH OF THE 20TH CENTURY, PAKEHA, SORT OF, ENGAGED IN THIS, KIND OF, MYTH-MAKING AROUND THE WARS. AND THEY DEPICT THEM AS THESE CHIVALROUS AND NOBLE KIND OF CONFLICTS, AND ESPECIALLY LIKE, YOU KNOW, AT ORAKAU, IT'S THIS SORT OF NOTION OF REWI'S LAST STAND, AND IT'S SORT OF A DEFINED AND BRAVE BUT ULTIMATELY DOOMED LAST STAND AGAINST THE CROWN, WHEN THE REALITY THERE, AGAIN, IS THAT WE HAD UNARMED FEMALE PRISONERS BEING BAYONETED BY BRITISH TROOPS. AND YOU HAD, OF THE 300 PEOPLE INSIDE THAT PA AT ORAKAU, OVER HALF OF THEM ARE KILLED. NOT DURING THE THREE-DAY SIEGE, WHEN THEY'RE WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER OR AMMUNITION, BUT ON THE LAST DAY WHEN THEY FLEE FOR THEIR LIVES ON FOOT AND ARE HUNTED DOWN BY CAVALRY. AND WITNESSES DESCRIBED THE STENCH OF DECOMPOSING BODIES THERE FOR WEEKS AFTERWARD, AND IT WAS JUST SUCH AN APPALLING SCENE. BUT W DON'T GET THAT` THAT HISTORY COMING THROUGH. INSTEAD, WE GET THIS, KIND OF` AS I SAY, THE CHIVALROUS AND GLORIOUS, KIND OF, SIDE OF THINGS, THAT IS EMPHASISED. MATUA TOM, WHAT DO YOU RECALL AS A YOUNG PERSON GROWING UP, HEARING`? YOU KNOW, WERE YOU TOLD THESE STORIES? OR WAS IT SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD TO FIND OUT LATER? AT ALMOST EVERY TANGI, UH, 'E PA TO HAU.' MM. YOUR INTRODUCTION. WITH THAT... SADNESS. MM. MOURNFULLY. AND THEN AT NIGHT, UH, THE OLD PEOPLE TALKING, AND SO US YOUNGER ONES SORT OF FALLING ASLEEP AND WAKING UP AND THEN THIS TALK HAPPENING AROUND US. BUT AS WE GOT OLDER, THAT SADNESS AND THAT FEELING OF HORRIBLE LOSS AND THE PAIN THAT THESE PEOPLE WENT THROUGH, UH, STRUCK MORE. YEAH. KIA MAU TONU MAI RA E TE IWI, HEI MURI I NGA WHAKATAIRANGA, KA MATAPAKIHIA NGA PANGA O TE PAKANGA NUI MO NIU TERINI. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK TO THIS SPECIAL EPISODE OF THE HUI, WHERE WE'RE DISCUSSING THE NZ LAND WARS AND THE PUBLICATION OF THE NEW BOOK 'THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ'. JOINING US ON OUR PAE KORERO IS TRIBAL HISTORIAN DR TOM ROA AND AUTHOR VINCENT O'MALLEY. BUT BEFORE WE GET BACK INTO OUR DISCUSSIONS, KIA TITIRO AKE TATOU KI TENEI. 12,000KM2 OF MAORI LAND, AROUND 4% OF NZ'S TOTAL LANDMASS, WAS CONFISCATED DURING THE WAIKATO WARS. TARANAKI MAORI WERE ALSO INVADED; THE CONFLICT SPREADING ACROSS THE NORTH ISLAND ALL THE WAY TO THE EAST CAPE. IN ALL, AROUND 3000 LOST THEIR LIVES. THE VAST MAJORITY WERE MAORI, WHO DIED IN THE DEFENCE OF THEIR LANDS. BUT EVEN MORE WOULD BE LOST IN THE AFTERMATH ` DISEASE, STARVATION AND LAND ALIENATION LAYING WASTE TO MANY MORE LONG AFTER THE LAST SHOTS WERE FIRED IN 1872 IN PURSUIT OF TE KOOTI RIKIRANGI. BY 1896 THE MAORI POPULATION HAD COLLAPSED FROM AN ESTIMATED 90,000 TO JUST 39,000. SO, VINCENT, WHAT WAS IT THAT INSPIRED YOU TO WRITE THIS HISTORY? WELL, THERE'S AN INCREDIBLY RICH SEAM OF HISTORY THAT'S DONE THROUGH THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL CLAIMS PROCESS THAT DOESN'T REALLY SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY BEYOND CLAIMANTS AND A FEW LAWYERS AND TRIBUNAL MEMBERS AND SO ON. AND FOR ME, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT STARTED WITH RESEARCH INTO THE KING COUNTRY, OR ROHE POTAE, CLAIMS. AND I LEARNT THINGS ABOUT THE WAR THAT I-I` THAT BLEW ME AWAY. BECAUSE I WENT INTO IT ASSUMING THAT THIS HAD ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE, BUT WHEN I FOUND, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT CASUALTY RATES WERE PROBABLY HIGHER THAN NZ TROOPS SUFFERED DURING WORLD WAR ONE, WHICH IS USUALLY CONSIDERED THE GREATEST BLOODBATH IN NZ HISTORY, I JUST KNEW THAT I HAD TO SHARE THIS STUFF WITH A WIDER AUDIENCE. YOU KNOW, THE LAST ACTUAL BOOK-LENGTH OVERVIEW ON THE WAIKATO WARS IS IN 1879. AS I ARGUE, THIS IS THE DEFINING CONFLICT IN NZ HISTORY, SO I THINK IT WAS WELL OVERDUE FOR A BOOK THAT GAVE IT PROPER RECOGNITION. WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO CARED ENOUGH TO WRITE THE HISTORY OF YOUR PEOPLE? FABULOUS. FABULOUS. THAT'S THE REASON WHY I'M HERE, IS TO SUPPORT VINCENT WITH THE BOOK AND... I HAD A THOUGHT EARLIER WHEN YOU ASKED AN EARLIER QUESTION, THAT YOU AND I, MIHINGARANGI, ARE PROBABLY A RESULT OF THAT TIME WHEN MAORI WELCOMED PAKEHA INTO OUR COMMUNITIES, WELCOMED THE NEW TECHNOLOGY, WELCOMED THE PROMISE OF A BRIGHT FUTURE WITH THESE NEWCOMERS. AND THEN OTHER THINGS TOOK OVER. SO FOR ME, VINCENT REVIVED THAT WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER. WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF THOSE WARS ON YOUR PEOPLE, NGATI MANIAPOTO WAIKATO? WELL, I DON'T HAVE A SKERRICK OF LAND TO MY NAME. ALL OF IT WAS TAKEN. I GREW UP VERY POOR, BUT NOT UNHAPPY. UH, I` I JUST CELEBRATE THE SPIRIT OF OUR PEOPLE WHO` AND` AND DESPITE ALL OF THIS ADVERSITY, WERE ABLE TO JUST KEEP GOING, UH, DESPITE THE MAIMAI. UH, AND MY SISTER'S NAME IS MAIMAI ROA, WHICH MEANS 'THE LONG PAIN',... THE LONG PAIN. ...LONG SUFFERING. YOU` YOU WRITE ABOUT HOW, UM, MAORI WERE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, DEAL WITH THESE GRIM SITUATIONS AND THEY WERE SO RESILIENT. WHAT WERE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU LEARNT? WELL, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WAS THAT IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THE WAIKATO WAR, UM, THERE'S QUITE A REALLY DEVASTATING IMPACT FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND THERE ARE REPORTS OF PEOPLE DYING OF STARVATION. SO THE POPULATION OF THE KING COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, THE AREA SOUTH OF PUNIU RIVER, DOUBLES OVERNIGHT. SO JUST IMAGINE IF NZ'S POPULATION WAS NINE MILLION TOMORROW. AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WITH PEOPLE IN THE KING COUNTRY. SO THERE'S WIDESPREAD SCARCITY, THERE'S OUTBREAKS OF DISEASE AND SO ON, AND, YOU KNOW, CRAMPED, UNSANITARY HOUSING CONDITIONS WHEN` WHEN, YOU KNOW, YOUR POPULATION INCREASES SO DRAMATICALLY OVERNIGHT. BUT THEN, UM, BY THE LATE 1860S, THERE'S QUITE A REMARKABLE RECOVERY, AND` AND BY THE EARLY 1870S, UM, MAORI ARE AGAIN EXPORTING PRODUCE ACROSS THE NEW FRONTIER LINE TO SELL TO SETTLERS AT ALEXANDRA AND SO ON. SO IT'S JUST KIND OF EVIDENCE OF THIS VITALITY, RESURGENCE AND DETERMINATION TO SURVIVE, BECAUSE THE CROWN HAD NOT GONE TO WAR TO TEACH THE KINGITANGA A LESSON. IT WENT TO WAR TO DESTROY IT. AND IT FAILED IN THAT OBJECTIVE. WHEN DID THE KINGITANGA MOVE BACK? THERE'S A MOVEMENT BACK NORTH OF THE, UM, AUKATI, THE PUNIU RIVER, FROM THE 1880S ONWARDS. UM, BUT TAINUI, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE TO BUY BACK LAND AT NGARUAWAHIA FOR THE HEADQUARTERS AND SO ON, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO LAND AT ALL. AND HERE'S AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT RETURN DOWN IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, AND THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TAINUI PEOPLE LISTED AS LANDLESS, OFFICIALLY LANDLESS, SO IT'S NOT EASY AT ALL, RETURNING NORTH AGAIN, UM, DURING THAT PERIOD. IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT HOW THE` THE WAR AFFECTED YOUR PEOPLE, WHAT WOULD IT BE? AND THAT'S` THAT'S NOT FIGHTING AGAINST PEOPLE FOR THE SAKE OF FIGHTING, BUT FIGHTING AGAINST THE OPPRESSOR, UH, FIGHTING AGAINST THE SUPPRESSION, CONTINUING THE SPIRIT OF RESILIENCE IN THE FACE OF INSURMOUNTABLE ODDS. HOW HAS THIS RESEARCH, THIS BOOK`? HAS IT CHANGED YOU? HAS IT MADE YOU SOMETHING DIFFERENT? HAVE YOU GOT DIFFERENT THOUGHTS NOW? I THINK IT GIVES ME HOPE FOR THE FUTURE, THAT THERE IS, KIND OF, A GROUNDSWELL OF MOMENTUM BUILDING BEHIND THIS BOOK, THAT PEOPLE RECOGNISE THAT THIS HISTORY IS IMPORTANT, THAT WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT. AND ALSO, I THINK THE OTHER IMPORTANT THING IS, YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S BEING BLAMED HERE. IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF BLAME, IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF GUILT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S SIMPLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT TAINUI AND OTHER IWI HAVE CARRIED THIS HISTORY FOR TOO LONG ON THEIR OWN, AND IT'S TIME THAT OTHER NZERS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HISTORY AND, YOU KNOW, TOOK SOME TIME TO` T0` TO RECOGNISE IT AND TO TAKE PRACTICAL STEPS TO PROTECT THE SITES WHERE THESE BATTLES TOOK PLACE AND TO ENSURE THAT THE HISTORY OF THESE WARS IS TAUGHT TO OUR SCHOOL CHILDREN SO THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS DON'T FORGET. HE PAKU WHAKATA KEI TE HAERE. WHEN WE RETURN, FORMER NEW PLYMOUTH MAYOR ANDREW JUDD, MANA MAGAZINE EDITOR LEONIE HAYDEN AND EDUCATOR TAMSIN HANLY DISCUSS THE MOVE TO COMMEMORATE THE NZ WARS. APPLAUSE TAHUTI MAI ANO. THE NZ WARS DEFINED OUR NATION, FORTIFYING THE POWER IMBALANCE BETWEEN MAORI AND PAKEHA. MAORI DIDN'T JUST SUFFER THE LOSS OF RANGATIRATANGA AND WHENUA, THE SPIRITUAL AND SOCIAL COSTS OF THE WARS WERE IMMEASURABLE, AND THEY CONTINUE TO REVERBERATE THROUGH THE DECADES AND GENERATIONS SINCE. SO, MORE THAN A CENTURY ON, HOW DO WE BEGIN TO OVERCOME OUR PAST? JOINING ME IS FORMER NEW PLYMOUTH MAYOR ANDREW JUDD, EDUCATOR TAMSIN HANLY AND MANA MAGAZINE EDITOR LEONIE HAYDEN. WELL, TENA KOUTOU KATOA. ANDREW, MAYBE IF I COULD START WITH YOU, AS YOU WERE GROWING UP IN TARANAKI, WHAT DID YOU KNOW OF THOSE TARANAKI CONFLICTS? MY WHOLE EXISTENCE IN GROWING UP AS A PAKEHA NZER ONLY EVER HAVING LIVED IN NZ, WAS ZERO. (CHUCKLES) NOTHING AT ALL? NOTHING AT ALL. BUT DID YOU KNOW ANYTHING HAD HAPPENED? PRETTY MUCH MY UNDERSTANDING WAS IT WAS A VERY COLONISED, SANITISED COLONIAL VIEW OF WHAT TOOK PLACE IN TARANAKI AND NZ. UH, IT WAS A VIEW OF CHIVALRY OF THE BRITISH AND A SAVAGE MAORI WARRIOR, UH, FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT. SO WHEN DID IT CHANGE FOR YOU? WELL, BECOMING ELECTED TO THE MAYOR OF NEW PLYMOUTH, UH, TOOK ME ON A JOURNEY OF PERSONAL DISCOVERY, OF THAT TRUTH THAT WAS HIDDEN. THAT TRUTH GAVE ME A PRIVILEGE, A PRIVILEGE THAT ALLOWED ME TO BE THE RECOVERING RACIST THAT I SAY THAT I AM TODAY. WAS THERE A DEFINING MOMENT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOKED IN THE MIRROR AND THOUGHT, 'GEE'? NOT ONE POINT. IT WAS A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS. BUT THE MOST OUTSTANDING THING THAT I RECALL ` GOING ON TO OWAE MARAE FOR MAUI POMARE DAY. SOMETHING POIGNANT HIT ME, AND IT WAS LOOKING INTO THE EYES OF THE GENERATIONS OF THE PAIN THAT STILL EXISTS TODAY FROM THAT PRIVILEGE AND THOSE CONSEQUENCES, THAT PRIVILEGE THAT I'VE HAD AND THE CONSEQUENCES TO MAORIDOM. KIA ORA. WELL, I'M GONNA COME TO YOU, TAMSIN, BECAUSE YOU HAVE WORKED IN EDUCATION FOR A LONG TIME. AND SO WHAT WE HEARD EARLIER WAS IN 1914, THE GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME ORDERED ALL NZ SCHOOLS TO PUT THEIR KIDS OUTSIDE UNDERNEATH THE NZ FLAG AND CELEBRATE THE BATTLE OF ORAKAU. UH, IN 2016, EDUCATION MINISTER HEKIA PARATA, WHEN ASKED IF SHE'D MAKE HISTORY COMPULSORY IN SCHOOLS, SHE SAID 'IT'S NOT THE NZ WAY'. WHAT`? IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHAT ARE OUR CHILDREN BEING TAUGHT? OH, OUR CHILDREN ARE BEING TAUGHT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. UM, MY RESEARCH FINDINGS WERE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAINSTREAM MAORI AND PAKEHA TEACHERS KNEW WHAT I CALL THE 'STANDARD STORY' OR WHAT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT AS THE COLONIAL VERSION, OR ANDREW TALKED ABOUT THE 'MYTH' STORY, WHERE CAPTAIN COOK DISCOVERED THIS COUNTRY AND THAT MAORI PEOPLE JUST GAVE AWAY, UM, CEDED THEIR SOVEREIGNTY IN THE 1840 ENGLISH VERSION OF THE TREATY TEXT ` YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF COLONIAL VERSION. THAT IS STILL BEING TAUGHT, UH, UNDER THE RESEARCH FINDINGS THAT I'VE FOUND. ALSO THAT A LOT OF TEACHERS ARE` PARTICULARLY PAKEHA TEACHERS, ARE VERY MONOCULTURAL ABOUT MAORI THINGS. THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TREATY EITHER. THAT GOES RIGHT THROUGH TO SECONDARY AS WELL. DR SHEEHAN'S RESEARCH FINDINGS ` HE SAID THE SAME THING. COMPLETE ABSENCE OF MAORI MATERIAL, NOTHING ON COLONISATION. SO WHEN THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION SAYS THAT IT'S A CHOICE AND SCHOOLS CAN JUST PICK IT UP AND TEACH IT, WHAT ARE THE MITIGATING FACTS IN THAT? LIKE, WHY CAN'T IT JUST BE TAUGHT LIKE THAT? TEACHERS ARE PREPARED? YES? NO? NO, THEY'RE NOT PREPARED AT ALL. AND THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT POSITION, WHICH IS THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, HAVE A KIND OF NEO-LIBERAL POSITION, WHERE THEY SAY THAT EACH SCHOOL CAN CHOOSE THEIR OWN, UM, SORT OF, CURRICULUM ` NOW, THAT MIGHT WORK IN SOME SITUATIONS, BUT WITH HISTORY, AND WITH SOCIAL STUDIES, IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO GROW A NATIONAL IDENTITY ` OR IDENTITIES ` IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH WE ARE, YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOUR HISTORY, AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW ACCURATE HISTORIES. IF YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO HONOUR THE OBLIGATIONS OF THE TREATY OF WAITANGI, WHICH LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE TRYING TO DO, AND EDUCATORS ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO DO THAT ` WE ARE OBLIGATED TO HONOUR AND ACT TO TREATY PRINCIPLE, THEN WE CAN'T DO THAT OF IF WE DON'T` LET ME ASK YOU, COS WE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT EDUCATION EARLIER ON, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE WAY THAT WE, YOU KNOW, MAKE SOME CHANGES IN OUR SCHOOL, IN OUR EDUCATION? WELL, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU NEED TO BE, AS A PUBLISHER, TO CREATE TEACHING RESOURCES, YOU NEED TO BE A PUBLISHING COMPANY THAT'S MANDATED BY THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION, AND THERE'S ONLY SIX OF THOSE PUBLISHING COMPANIES. AND FROM A COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT I TALKED TO, UM, THERE'S REALLY ONLY ONE OF THOSE PUBLISHING COMPANIES THAT WINS MOST OF THE GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS. SO TO MY WAY OF THINKING, THAT'S QUITE A NARROW POOL OF RESOURCES. AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, THERE'S MORE THAN ONE HISTORY THAT NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT ` THERE ARE HISTORIES; UM, THERE'S DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, AND, UM, I FEEL LIKE A GREAT PLACE TO START WOULD BE ACTUALLY WIDENING THE POOL OF RESOURCES` ACCURATE HISTORIES (LAUGHS) BECAUSE` WELL, YEAH, ACCURATE HISTORIES. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, PUBLISHING COMPANIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PLAY A REALLY BIG PART IN THAT. I GUESS, ANDREW, SCHOOLS AREN'T THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE CAN EDUCATE PEOPLE. IN LOCAL BODY POLITICS, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THERE? WHAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE THERE? WELL, I THINK ANYONE STANDING FOR ANY ELECTED OFFICE IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD HAVE SOME BASIC REQUIREMENTS TO UNDERSTAND THE TREATY, AT LEAST. UM, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT WAVE THIS BANNER OF IT'S ALL, UM, ONE COUNTRY AND WE ALL GET ON, AND IT'S THE SANITISED VIEW, WHEN IN REALITY IT'S FAR FROM IT. AND I SPEAK, NOT FOR PAKEHA, BUT AS PAKEHA, AND I MYSELF HAVE BEEN DISCOVERING THESE STORIES, AND I APPLAUD PEOPLE LIKE VINCENT FOR BRINGING IT TO LIGHT. I FEEL REALLY LIED TO BY MY OWN CULTURE,... MM. ...BECAUSE I'VE BEEN RIPPED OFF TOO, BY THE DENIAL. YEP. I WANTED TO ASK YOU, PRIOR TO YOUR RECOVERY AS A RACIST, WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS` IN YOUR OWN WORDS ` WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS AROUND` ABOUT MAORI AND THEIR GRIEVANCES? SO, I` HAND ON HEART, I MEAN, I WAS A` A DON BRASH FAN WHEN IT WAS IWI-KIWI. I CHANGED VOTING TO NATIONAL ON THE BACK OF THAT. MY CULTURE AND ALMOST MY DNA ALLOWED ME TO DEFAULT TO THAT IGNORANT POSITION, BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON COMPLETE IGNORANCE OF ANY` BUT WHAT MADE YOU BACK HIM? WHAT` WHAT DID HE SPEAK TO? IT TICKED ALL THOSE SENSITIVE FEARS WITHIN ME AT A LEVEL THAT I COULDN'T EXPLAIN. I USED TO THINK, ON MY JOURNEY OF RECOVERING RACISM, IF WHAT I WAS FEELING WAS THE TRUTH, IF IT WAS SUCH A COLO` YOU KNOW, A PRETTY PAST, WHY DID I GET ANGRY WHEN I SAW SOMETHING MAORI? WHY DID I REACT ON WAITANGI DAY? YOU KNOW, 'THESE MAORIS ` GET OVER IT.' COS SOMETHING'S WRONG, RIGHT? COS THAT'S NOT` I KNEW AT A LEVEL THAT IT'S NOT THE TRUTH. I JUST COULDN'T TAP IN TO WHAT WAS WRONG WITH ME. AND I WOULD SAY BY EXTENSION, MAINSTREAM NZ. BUT MAINSTREAM MEDIA ` NO EDUCATION ` WE ARE ALLOWED TO STAY THERE. WE KEEP OURSELVES TRAPPED. IT IS A PAKEHA ISSUE. IF THERE WAS ONE FIRST START IN SCHOOLS, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE, TAMSIN? WELL, I ACTUALLY BELIEVE YOU'VE GOTTA EDUCATE THE EDUCATORS. WE CAN SAY THAT THE CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE, BUT ACTUALLY, IF THE EDUCATORS DON'T KNOW ACCURATE HISTORIES, THEN OUR CHILDREN AREN'T GOING TO KNOW THEM, AND THEY CAN'T ENACT THE INCREDIBLE VISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY BY THE TREATY, BUT ALSO` OF THE TREATY, BUT ALSO OF THE INCREDIBLE CULTURAL HISTORIES, PAKEHA AND MAORI HISTORIES, IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE` YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT INCREDIBLE STORIES AND INCREDIBLE` TERRIBLE ONES AND INCREDIBLY AMAZING ONES THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT. WE OFTEN HEAR, LIKE, YOU KNOW, 'OH, AT LEAST THE MAORI AREN'T AS BAD OFF AS THE ABORIGINAL PEOPLE. 'OR THE NATIVE AMERICANS. THEY'VE REALLY GOT IT BAD.' DO YOU THINK THIS IS KIND OF WHERE WE HAVE TO START TO DECOLONISE OUR THINKING AS A NATION? YES. YEAH. ABSOLUTELY. AT EVERY LEVEL, AS WELL. I MEAN, AT A BUSINESS LEVEL, EDUCATION` FAMILIES NEED TO HAVE FRANKER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING, BECAUSE IT'S NOT COMPARATIVE. THESE ISSUES NEED TO BE LOOKED AT ON THEIR OWN IN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR OWN HISTORY ` WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR TUAKANA IN AUSTRALIA ` IT'S DEVASTATING, AND THEY'RE EVEN MORE BACKWARD THAN WE ARE, BUT WE CAN'T FIX THE WORLD. WE CAN FOCUS ON THE ISSUES THAT ARE PERSONAL TO US HERE IN AOTEAROA. AND BY DOING SO, POTENTIALLY BE AN EXAMPLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU HEAR FROM OTHER INDIGENOUS CULTURES ANYWAY, THAT PEOPLE DO LOOK TO MAORI AND NZ FOR THE INITIATIVES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE HERE. BUT LET'S NOT FOOL OURSELVES ` THEY'RE MAORI-LED INITIATIVES. THAT'S RIGHT. THEY ARE. IT'S NOT OUR GOVERNMENT BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO MAKE IT EASY FOR US, SO, UM, YEAH, WE JUST NEED TO FOCUS ON AOTEAROA. I THINK VERY MUCH SO, WE NEED TO DECOLONISE THE NATION. YEAH. ABSOLUTELY. ANDREW, WHAT WILL YOU BE DOING ON THE 28TH OF OCTOBER NEXT YEAR? I WILL BE PLANTING NEW SEEDS OF EDUCATION TO MY CHILDREN BY VISITING THE WAR SITES IN WAITARA AND ENDING THE DAY AT PARIHAKA, WHERE THE PROPHETS TAUGHT THE WORLD AROUND PEACE. WELL, TENA KOUTOU KATOA. HE PANUI MOTUHAKE E HAERE AKE NEI NA BRIDGET WILLIAMS BOOKS. BRIDGET WILLIAMS BOOKS ARE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE 'THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ: WAIKATO 1800-2000' IS BEING DISTRIBUTED TO ALL 480 NZ SECONDARY SCHOOLS AS PART OF BWB'S BOOKS IN SCHOOL LIBRARIES PROGRAMME. THIS INITIATIVE HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF THE FREEMASONS FOUNDATION. MA TE MOHIO KA MARAMA, MA TE MARAMA KA MATAU, MA TE MATAU KA ORA. AND VINCENT O'MALLEY WILL NOW PRESENT A SIGNED COPY OF 'THE GREAT WAR FOR NZ' TO TE WAIOREA RUMAKI REO STUDENTS TE WAIORA MOREHU AND TE MOANA KERSHAW. APPLAUSE WELL, WE HOPE THIS PROGRAMME HAS ENCOURAGED YOU TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE WAR FOR NZ. WE CHALLENGE YOU ALL TO REMEMBER, TO COMMEMORATE, KIA KAUA E WAREWARE. A SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR PANELLISTS TODAY AND TO EVERYONE WHO'S ENTRUSTED US WITH THEIR STORIES THIS YEAR. HE MIHI MUTUNGA KORE KI A KOUTOU KATOA. WE LEAVE YOU NOW WITH A SPECIAL PERFORMANCE OF 'HOMAI TE RA' BY WAIOREA, KUA HIKINA TE HUI, HEI KONA MAI RA. ALL SING 'HOMAI TE RA' (CHANTS IN MAORI) ALL CHANT: ANA! ANA! AUE! HI! CAPTIONS WERE MADE POSSIBLE WITH FUNDING FROM NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2016 'THE HUI' WAS MADE WITH FUNDING FROM THE NZ ON AIR PLATINUM FUND.