MY HEART SAYS THAT MARAMA FOX IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT MAORI PRIME MINISTER, KEI NGA POU TOKOMANAWA, KEI NGA POU TAHU O TE WHARE KORERO O TE HUI, TENA KOUTOU KATOA. KO MIHINGARANGI TENEI E MIHI ATU NEI, NAU MAI, TAHUTI MAI RA. WELCOME TO THE HUI, MAORI CURRENT AFFAIRS FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS. COMING UP THIS MORNING ` HE'S OUR LONGEST SERVING MAORI MP AND HE'S STUDIO TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT A SERVE OVER IMMIGRATION, SUPERANNUATION AND MAORI LAND REFORMS. NZ FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS JOINS US. AND ` IT'S BEEN TOUTED AS REFLECTING THE DIVERSITY OF NZ,... NATIONAL HAVE MORE MAORI IN THEIR TOP FIVE THAN LABOUR HAS IN THEIR TOP 15. ...BUT WITH NO MAORI IN THE TOP 15, WE ASK JUST WHAT NZ THE LABOUR PARTY IS LIVING IN? COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017 KARAHUIHUI MAI. WINSTON PETERS IS NEW ZEALAND'S LONGEST SERVING CURRENT MAORI MP, HAVING ENTERED PARLIAMENT AS A NATIONAL MP IN 1978. THAT'S 39 YEARS AGO, FOLKS, MINUS A THREE-YEAR HOLIDAY AFTER THE 2008 ELECTION. BUT SINCE 1993, HE HAS LED HIS OWN PARTY NEW ZEALAND FIRST. HE'S BEEN BOTH A KING-MAKER AND A KING-SLAYER, AND IN THE 2015 BY-ELECTION, HE WON THE LONG-HELD NORTHLAND SEAT FROM NATIONAL. AS NORTHLAND'S ELECTORATE MP, HE REPRESENTS ABOUT 150,000 PEOPLE, NEARLY A THIRD OF WHOM ARE MAORI. OF THOSE, THE AVERAGE INCOME IS $19,000 A YEAR, AND 60% HAVE NO FORMAL QUALIFICATION. HE JOINS ME NOW TO SHARE HIS VIEWS ON WHAT HE SEES AS BEING THE BIG ISSUES FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE NORTH AND NEW ZEALAND THIS ELECTION. TENA KOE. KIA ORA. THANK YOU. LET'S JUST RECAP ON THE ANNUAL NET IMMIGRATION FIGURES. 130,000 PEOPLE CAME INTO THE COUNTRY IN MARCH. 57,000 LEFT, LEAVING AROUND 72,000 HERE. WHAT'S A GOOD ANNUAL NET MIGRATION NUMBER IN YOUR MIND? ABOUT 10,000. IF THE UK HAS A TARGET OF 100,000, AND THEY'RE A COUNTRY OF 65 MILLION, WHY WOULD WE, A COUNTRY OF 4.7 MILLION. HAVE 72,000? NOT VERY FAR FROM THEIR FIGURE. I'M GOING TO TALK SPECIFICALLY TO THE PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THE HUI. YOU REPRESENT PEOPLE IN THE NORTH, WHERE THE MAORI POPULATION IS HIGHER THAN THE AVERAGE. HOW WOULD A LOWER NET IMMIGRATION NUMBER BENEFIT MAORI IN THE NORTH? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE PEOPLE THAT HIGH IMMIGRATION IMPACTS THE WORST IS MAORI AND POLYNESIAN, BECAUSE THEY'RE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ECONOMIC HEAP, WHERE ALL THE COMPETITION FOR JOBS, RENTALS, LOW-COST HOUSING. EVERY AREA OF COMPETITION ARTIFICIALLY IMPORTED FROM OVERSEAS IS DRAMATICALLY DISASTEROUS FOR THE MAORI AND POLYNESIAN POPULATION, AND FOR LOW-INCOME EUROPEAN FAMILIES, WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION WHY WAS THE MAORI PARTY SAYING THAT WINSTON PETERS IS A RACIST, AND WE SHOULD BE GOING TO THE AIRPORT TO GIVE THEM A POWHIRI, THAT'S HOW OUT OF TOUCH MAORI LEADERSHIP IS ON THIS MATTER. CAN I TAKE AN EXAMPLE? UP NORTH WE HAVE A FIGURE WE CALL NEETS ` NOT IN EDUCATION, EMPLOYMENT OR TRAINING ` MAORI ARE ALWAYS HIGHER THAN NON-MAORI IN THAT. WHAT KIND OF JOB WOULD A YOUNG MAORI BOY WHO'S UNDER NEETS AT THE MOMENT HAVE IF WE WERE TO REDUCE IMMIGRATION? IS THERE ANY EXAMPLE YOU COULD GIVE US? WELL, OF THE 92,000 LIKE YOU DESCRIBED, NORTHLAND HAS FAR MORE THAN ITS SHARE, BUT I CAN RECALL A TIME WHEN ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR EMPLOYMENT, GETTING TRAINING, OR HEADING OFF TO APPRENTICE SCHOOLS. WE'VE CHANGED THE WHOLE FACE OF THE COUNTRY. THESE PEOPLE UP NORTH, THAT LIVE IN MY ELECTORATE, IN THE TOP HALF OF THE EXPORT-WEALTH- EARNING ELECTORATES, AND IN THE BOTTOM OF EVERYTHING ELSE. AND THAT'S WHAT THE NORTHLAND BY-ELECTION WAS ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHAT THE NEXT ELECTION'S GONNA BE ABOUT. IT'S HAVING SOUND ECONOMIC POLICIES TO GIVE ALL THOSE COMMUNITIES LIKE KAIKOHE, LIKE KAWAKAWA, LIKE KAITAIA, A FAIR CHANCE. IT'S NOT THAT THEY HAVEN'T GOT THE RESOURCES, EITHER AT SEA OR IN TOURISM, IN THE FORESTS OR ON THE LAND, BUT SO MUCH OF THAT ECONOMY HAS BEEN GOUGED OUT TO SERVE, MOSTLY, OTHER COUNTRIES, OR OTHER PARTS OF OUR COUNTRY. GIVEN THE TREATY OF WAITANGI WAS, LOOSELY, OUR FIRST IMMIGRATION POLICY, SHOULD TANGATA WHENUA HAVE MORE OF A SAY ON WHO COMES HERE? WELL, NOBODY'S LISTENING TO THEM. ONLY ONE PARTY'S LISTENING TO WHAT MAORI THINK ON IMMIGRATION, AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT. (CHUCKLES) ALL THE REST HAVE EXCUSED MASS HIGH IMMIGRATION OUT OF ALL PROPORTION TO WHAT YOU'VE GOT IN TERMS OF THE UNITED STATES OR AUSTRALIA OR THE UK OR FRANCE. WE'RE GOING AT THREE OR FOUR TIMES THAT LEVEL AND WORSE, AND YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE APOLOGISTS FROM THE ESTABLISHMENT, SO TO SPEAK, SAYING IT'S A GREAT IDEA, INCLUDING WHAT I CALL THE ROUND TABLE OF MAORIDOM, ALL OF THOSE WHO SAY IT'S A GOOD THING WHILST THE MASS MAJORITY OF MAORI HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN AND TOTALLY MARGINALISED. LET'S GO TO AUSTRALIA WHERE MAORI AREN'T TANGATA WHENUA, BUT THERE'S A WHOLE HEAP OF NORTHLAND MAORI LIVING OVER THERE. 300,000 MAORI LIVE IN AUSTRALIA. WE'RE HEARING ABOUT AUSTRALIAN POLICIES THAT ARE TARGETING SPECIFICALLY NZERS. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AROUND THE RECENT HIKE IN TERTIARY FEES OVER THERE? IT'S DISASTROUS. IT'S NOT JUST THAT, IT'S SENDING PEOPLE BACK WHO ARRIVED THERE WHEN THEY WERE 2 YEARS OF AGE, END UP WITH A CRIMINAL HISTORY. WHEN THEY GET OUT OF PRISON, THEY'RE GOING STRAIGHT BACK TO NZ. AND IT'S GOING BACK TO 2001 WHERE OUR SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP AS CHANGED. BUT I WANNA REMIND YOU AND SOME OF YOU PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA COMMENTARIAT, WHO WAS MAKING SPEECHES 21 YEARS AGO SAYING IF WE ALLOW OUR COUNTRY TO BE USED AS A BOLTHOLE TO GO STRAIGHT TO AUSTRALIA, WHERE AUSTRALIA THINKS THAT THEY'RE NZERS, THEN THERE'S GONNA BE A CATASTROPHE, AND THERE'S GONNA BE A CHANGE IN THE AUSSIE ATTITUDE. 21 YEARS AGO I WAS MAKING THAT SPEECH. AND WE WERE IGNORED, AND HERE COME THE CONSEQUENCES. AND NOW YOU'VE GOT ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE SAYING, 'OH, I'M VERY CONCERNED`' SO YOU'RE SAYING FAIR ENOUGH, THEN? FAIR ENOUGH THAT THEY'RE TARGETING NZERS? NO, WHAT I'M SAYING WAS THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT AGAIN IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IT'S OFTEN LABOUR AND NATIONAL ALL IN THE SAME BOAT ON THIS MATTER, WERE THINKING IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO ALLOW THE FREEDOM TO COME STRAIGHT THROUGH THIS COUNTRY, GET A NZ PERMANENT RESIDENCY, AND STRAIGHT OFF TO AUSTRALIA, NOT HAVING TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES AS IF THEY WERE COMING DIRECT TO AUSTRALIA, BUT USING OUR NAME AND OUR COUNTRY AS A BACKGROUND. THIS IS ALL FORECASTABLE. MEANWHILE, WAY OUT WEST IN WOLLONGONG AND PLACES LIKE THAT, THEY COULDN'T GET ENOUGH MAORI. WHY? COS THEY'RE FANTASTIC IN ALL THESE JOBS THEY HAD OVER THERE. SO HOW DO WE ADDRESS THIS ISSUE NOW? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, INSTEAD OF GETTING YOURSELF RIGHTEOUS LIKE SOME OF THESE 11TH-HOUR DECISION-MAKERS HAVE HAD AN EPIPHANY ALL OF A SUDDEN ON THIS ISSUE, LET'S BE HONEST TO THE AUSTRALIANS AND SAY, 'LOOK, WE LET YOU DOWN. 'E ALLOWED OUR SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP TO BE ABUSED. WE APOLOGISE, BUT WE WANT OUR RELATIONSHIP BACK,' AND START WORKING ON IT. NOW, THERE ARE MANY MORE THINGS WE CAN DO TO TURN THE AUSSIES AROUND ON THIS MATTER. IF THEY WANNA TAKE THAT DINGO-ISTIC ATTITUDE, THERE'S A LOT MORE WE CAN DO, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BEGIN WITH THREATS AND STATEMENTS LIKE THAT. I THINK IT'S CAPABLE OF BEING TURNED AROUND, BUT YOU'VE GOTTA BE HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE. GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU WOULD TURN THAT AROUND. BECAUSE AS WE'VE GOT IT NOW, WE'VE GOT MAORI LIVING OVER ON THE GOLD COAST WHO DON'T HAVE SOCIAL SERVICES, WHO ` I HEARD THE OTHER DAY ` ARE WORKING UNDER THE TABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PAY TAX BECAUSE THEY DON'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT. WE'LL, THEY'RE SERIOUSLY SECOND CLASS CITIZENS. NOT JUST MAORI, EUROPEANS ARE IN THE SAME BOAT OVER THERE NOW. HOW WOULD I TURN IT AROUND? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, OWN UP TOT HE FACT THAT WE OWE THE AUSTRALIAN COUNTRY AN APOLOGY. WE OWN UP TO THE FACT THAT WE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN, AND WE TELL THE AUSTRALIANS NO MORE ANYBODY COMES THROUGH OUR COUNTRY, AND BECAUSE THEY GET OUR LEGAL STATUS. THEY CAN THEREFORE GO STRAIGHT TO AUSTRALIA LIKE NZERS CAN. WE GIVE THEM THAT COMMITMENT FOR A START. DEMONSTRATE HOW WE'RE GONNA FIX IT UP. AND THEN MAKE VERY CERTAIN ` AND I'D DO THIS IN PARTICULAR ` THE AVERAGE AUSTRALIAN KNOWS WHAT A FAIR GO IS I'D GO STRAIGHT TO THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE. I'D MOUNT CAMPAIGNS THERE TO TURN THINGS AROUND. I'D WANT EVERY AUSTRALIAN TO GIVE A COMMITMENT, WHOSE GOT A NZ FRIEND THERE, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY ` BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE VOTE A NZERS HAVEN'T ` THEY'LL VOTE FOR SOMEBODY TO TURN THIS AROUND. I'D MOUNT A SERIOUS CAMPAIGN, AND I BELIEVE IT CAN BE TURNED AROUND. LET'S COME BACK TOT HIS WHENUA. YOU'VE BEEN OUTSPOKEN ON THE MAORI PARTY'S TE TURE WHENUA BILL. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS BEHIND THIS REFORM? UH, UNINFORMED. UNQUALIFIED. UNPROFESSIONAL ADVICE. GOING IN AGAINST THE MAORI WOMEN'S WELFARE LEAGUE, AGAINST ALL THE MAORI LAND COURT JUDGES, WHANAU AND A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW BETTER, AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE MAORI LAND COURT, WHILST PEOPLE LIKE MARAMA FOX AND TE URUROA FLAVELL NEVER HAVE. AD THEY TALK ABOUT ALL THE HUI THEY WENT TO AND THE THOUSANDS THAT TURN UP. THAT DOES NOT MEAN AGREEMENT. IN FACT, THERE'S BARELY ONE HUI WHERE THEY DID AGREE. AND THEN, OF COURSE, WHEN IT WAS PUT TO TE URUROA FLAVELL, 'LOOK, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF OBJECTION IN MAORIDOM FROM SERIOUS QUARTERS ON THIS MATTER,' HE SAID, 'BUT IT'S A MATTER OF MY MANA.' NOW, WHICH LEGAL PRINCIPLE IS TE URUROA FLAVELL'S MANA? WHEN IT COMES TO THE SOUNDNESS OF GOOD LAND LAW WHERE MAORI ARE CONCERNED IN THE FUTURE. DO YOU THINK THAT SOME REFORM WOULD BE GOOD FOR MAORI LAND? YEAH, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A NEED FOR ONGOING REFORM. BUT WHEN YOU SAY TO SOME POOR MAORI WORKING IN A MINE OUT IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA, WHO'S TRYING TO GET ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE RATES BACK IN NZ AND HOPING TO COME HOME ONE DAY TO DEVELOP THEIR LAND, THAT YOUR ABSENCE IS A REASON WHY YOU SHOULD LOSE IT, NOW, THAT'S NOT MAORI. THAT'S DISGRACEFUL. SO, REWORK IT? REFORM IT? WELL, HE CAME BACK` LOOK, THERE WERE 16 ATTEMPTS TO FIX THIS UP. 16 DIFFERENT ATTEMPTS. THEN THEY CAME TO THE HOUSE WITH 400 PAGES OF CHANGES THAT HAD NEVER BEEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE, THEY'D NEVER BEEN BEFORE THE MAORI PEOPLE. NOW, I'LL SAY IT ONE MORE TIME, I'M SICK OF TIRED OF HEARING OF SOMEBODY LIKE MARAMA FOX SAYING WHAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW, WHOSE NEVER BEEN IN THE MAORI LAND COURT. I HAVE. I'VE GOT A ROUGH IDEA WHAT GOES ON THERE FROM A LONG TIME AS A LAWYER ` GOING WAY BACK. AND WHEN I HEAR THESE SORTS OF PEOPLE OPENING THEIR MOUTH AND LET THE WIND BLOW THEIR TONGUE AROUND, AND BEING REGARDED AS EXPERTS ON YOUR SHOW, I FEAR FOR MAORIDOM, BECAUSE MAORIDOM WANTS LEADERSHIP ON THIS MATTER, AND WHAT THEY'RE GETTING IN THE TE TURE WHENUA BILL IS A SERIOUSLY MISTAKEN PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THANK YOU, MR PETERS FOR YOUR TIME. JUST QUICKLY BEFORE YOU LEAVE, WHO MIGHT BE, AND WHEN MIGHT WE SEE, THE FIRST MAORI PRIME MINISTER? WELL, THERE WAS AN ACTING MAORI PRIME MINISTER WAY BACK AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY WHEN, UH` WHEN, UH` WHEN, UH` WHEN, UM, SEDDON USED TO GO OVERSEAS, THERE WAS A LONG TERM ACTING PRIME MINSTER AT THAT TIME CALLED CARROLL. AND I'VE BEEN AN ACTING PRIME MINISTER MYSELF, SO` BUT YOU KNOW WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS WHOLE DEBATE? AND I'VE SEEN IT IN POLITICS. THE PEOPLE WANNA BE SOMETHING JUST TO BE THE FIRST OF SOMETHING. NO PROGRAM, NO STRATEGY TO UPLIFT THE PEOPLE. JUST WANNA BE THE MINISTER OR THE PRIME MINISTER. AND IF, UH` IT'S IN THE BIBLE, YOU KNOW. IF YOU GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD AND LOSE YOUR SOUL, WHAT DOES IT PROFIT YOU? AND THE SAME GOES FOR POLITICIANS. NGA MIHI NUI KIA A KOE. THANK YOU, MR PETERS. YOU'RE WELCOME. INANGETO NEI, NO MAORI IN ITS FIRST 15. WE ASK WHY THE LABOUR PARTY ISN'T PLAYING BALL WITH MAORI. TE TAI TOKERAU MP KELVIN DAVIS JOINS ME NEXT. COMING UP THIS MORNING ` KIA ORA MAI ANO. THE LABOUR PARTY LIST WAS ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK AND HAS BEEN TOUTED AS REFLECTING THE DIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND, BUT WITH NOT A SINGLE MAORI IN THE TOP 15, IT BEGS THE QUESTION JUST WHAT NEW ZEALAND IS THE LABOUR PARTY LIVING IN? WE WANTED TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE WHO HAD INFLUENCE OVER THE LIST RANKINGS SO EARLIER THIS WEEK WE ASKED LABOUR PARTY PRESIDENT NIGEL HAWORTH FOR AN INTERVIEW. AT FIRST HE AGREED, BUT THEN PULLED OUT, CITING THE NEED FOR A MAORI VOICE ON THIS ISSUE. WE THEN ASKED LABOUR LEADER ANDREW LITTLE, BUT HE WAS UNAVAILABLE, SO HERE INSTEAD IS LABOUR'S TE TAI TOKERAU MP KELVIN DAVIS. TENA KOE. MORENA. KIA ORA A MIHI. DID YOU GET TO VOTE ON THE MAKE UP OF THE LIST? LOOK, LET'S LOOK AT THE BIG ISSUES FIRST, MIHI. BUT DID YOU? THE LIST HAS BEEN` DID YOU GET A VOTE ON THERE? A TOTAL SUCCESS FOR MAORI. AND PEOPLE NEED TO REALISED THAT THE STRATEGY THAT THE MAORI LIST` OK, SO YOU DIDN'T GET TO VOTE ON THE LIST, BUT YOU'RE HERE TODAY` YOU'VE GOTTA LOOK AT THE` NO. NO. I WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS. I WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS. THE STRATEGY OF MAORI ELECTORATE MPS HAS BEEN A SUCCESS` I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE LIST, SO THE LIST A GOOD LIST IN YOUR EYES? IT IS A GOOD LIST, AND BY US STEPPING OUT OF THE ELECTORATE` SO NO MAORI IN THE TOP 15 IS A GOOD LIST? HAS BROUGHT` HANG ON, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET ME SPEAK HERE, MIHI. OK. BY US STEPPING OFF THE LIST, IT HAS ALLOWED THE LIKES OF WILLOW-JEAN PRIME KIRITAPU ALLAN, WILLIE JACKSON TO COME IN. 16, 20, 21. SO, WHETHER WILLOW-JEAN IS AT 16 OR 6 IT DOESN'T MATTER. NOW, EVERYONE'S SAYING, 'WHY AREN'T THERE ANY MAORI IN THE TOP 15?' IT DOES MATTER THOUGH. NO, NO IT DOESN'T. IT ABSOLUTELY MATTERS COS BASED ON WHAT YOU GOT LAST TIME, SHE'D MISS OUT. NO. NO. SHE WOULDN'T EVEN GET IN. THAT'S NOT THE CASE. YOU'RE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST GAME. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET ME` AND THE LAST ELECTION, FIVE LIST SEATS YOU GOT THROUGH. THERE FIVE LIST MPS BEFORE HER SO AT 16 SHE WOULD NOT GET THROUGH. OK. SO, THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING, THAT, ON WHAT WE'RE POLLING AT THE MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 12 MAORI MPS IN THE LABOUR CAUCUS. THAT WILL REPRESENT 34%` COS YOU CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE (!) 34% OF OUR CAUCUS. NOW, WE HAVE NATIONAL BLOGGERS` SO, TELL ME, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO ACHIEVE IT? COMPLAINING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE OVERREPRESENTATION. TELL ME HOW YOU'RE GOING TO ACHIEVE 12. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. SO, WITH THE SIX OF US WINNING OUR SEATS, AND WITH WILLOW-JEAN PRIME AT 16, WITH KIRITAPU ALLAN AT 20, WILLI JACKSON 21, PAUL EAGLE IS GOING TO WIN RONGOTAI, JO LUXTON'S AT ABOUT 28` LOUISA, WHO WAS AT 12, NOW AT 25. LOUISA. HOW MANA-ENHANCING IS THAT FOR HER? NO, SEE, THIS IS WHAT YOU GUYS AREN'T UNDERSTANDING, AND WE NEED SOME CREDIT FOR THE SUCCESS OF OUR STRATEGY BECAUSE WE'RE BRING THESE PEOPLE` I'M GONNA. SORRY. IF WE HAD BEEN ON THE LIST, THE WILLOW-JEAN PRIME WOULD HAVE BEEN AT ABOUT 35, KIRITAPU IN 40, SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE MOVED THEM FORWARD. WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN THAT FAR? BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GUARANTEED TO GET BACK INTO PARLIAMENT COS YOU WOULD'VE BEEN SEVEN, BUT NOW CARMEL SEPULONI'S AT SEVEN, NOT YOU. THE FIRST ONE'S AT 16. I WANT TO REMIND YOU SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID` YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE. OK. LET'S HAVE A LOOK. YOU WERE HERE IN APRIL TALKING ABOUT THIS LIST, AND I ASKED YOU, 'COULD YOU GUARANTEE THERE WOULD BE MAORI NAMED IN THE TOP FIVE?' AND THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID ` 'QUITE POSSIBLY. I HOPE SO.' THEN YOU WHEN ON TO SAY, 'HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE THREE OR FOUR IN THE TOP 20 THIS TIME ROUND, 'WHICH WOULDN'T TAKE OUR NUMBERS UP TO 10.' DID YOU MAKE A PROMISE YOU COULDN'T KEEP OR DID YOU GET ROLLED BY THE PARTY? NO. I DIDN'T PROMISE ANYTHING. IF YOU LOOK AT IT,` YOU SAID HOPEFULLY THREE TO FOUR IN THE TOP 20. ALL OF THE ELECTORATE MPS THAT ARE GOING TO WIN, THAT MEANS THE LIST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME THROUGH. WE'VE ALMOST GUARANTEED WITH OUR STRATEGY THE MAORI ELECTORATE MPS, BY US WINNING OUR SEATS, BY` ARE YOU ON THE LIST? THE LIST PEOPLE SUCH A WILLOW-JEAN PRIME AND KIRITAPU ALLAN` ARE YOU ON THE LIST? ARE GOING TO COME THROUGH. NO, AND THAT WAS PART OF THE STRATEGY. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LIST. YOU'RE NOT ON THE LIST. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LIST. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THERE'S A CONSTITUTION THAT GOES WITH YOUR LIST, AND THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO ASK NIGEL HAWORTH, THE PRESIDENT, I WANTED TO ASK HIM WHAT ARE YOUR TREATY OBLIGATIONS? OK, SO PART OF THE CONSTITUTION IS TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL, DO A BIT OF CRYSTAL BALL GAZING, LOOK AT THE OVERALL MAKE UP OF THE CAUCUS AFTER THE ELECTION. AND BECAUSE WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO WIN OUR ELECTORATE SEATS, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THOSE LIST MPS, THAT MEANS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBABLY DOUBLE FIGURES OF MAORI MPS IN THE LABOUR CAUCUS AND WE NEED TO HAVE RECOGNITION OF` COS THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION, I READ IT, AND THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS ` OF THE STRATEGY AND HOW SUCCESSFUL IT'S BEEN. WHAT YOUR CONSTITUTION SAYS IS A FAIR REPRESENTATION OF TANGATA WHENUA, GENDER, ETHNIC GROUPS, AND THEN A GEOGRAPHICAL SPREAD OF THE COUNTRY, AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS THAT ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE EVENLY SPREAD ACROSS THE LIST. HAS THE LABOUR PARTY DONE MAORI A FAIR DEAL WHEN YOU NO MAORI IN YOUR TOP 15? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LIST. SO, I'LL GO BACK` YOU CAN'T` I'LL GO BACK WHEN THE OVERALL MAKE UP OF THE CAUCUS POST-ELECTION IS MORE THAN LIKELY GOING TO HAVE DOUBLE FIGURES OF MAORI MPS. (SCOFFS) WE ARE SETTING THE STANDARD. HOW MANY OTHER PARTIES ARE THERE GOING TO BE THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE THE POTENTIAL FOR DOUBLE FIGURE MAORIS? WELL, THAT IS A GOOD POINT BECAUSE` SO WE'RE ACTUALLY SETTING THE STANDARD. WE'RE RAISING BAR FOR OTHER PARTIES TO ACTUALLY EMULATE WHAT THE LABOUR PARTY HAS DONE. I THINK THE GREENS WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU THERE. WELL, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE 12 MAORI MPS? WELL, THEY DO HAVE A FAIR REPRESENTATION OF MAORI ON THEIR LIST, AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THAT BECAUSE IT GOES ON THEIR LIST. BECAUSE WE ARE` THIS IS ALL PART OF THE STRATEGY. IT'S OBVIOUS YOU'RE NOT UNDERSTANDING IT. BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT IN PARLIAMENT. YOU DON'T CONTROL THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. THE ONLY THING` BUT WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO WIN OUR ELECTORATES. BUT CONFIDENCE` I'M SURE EVERYONE'S CONFIDENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO WIN THE ELECTION. NOT AS CONFIDENT AS US. YES, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY BACK-UP. YOUR NOT ON THE` BUT THAT'S PART OF THE STRATEGY, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT US AS INDIVIDUALS, WE'RE LOOKING AT MAORIDOM IN GENERAL AND ANDREW LITTLE` THIS HAS BEEN TOUTED AS THE WORST LIST. THIS IS THE WORST LIST FOR MAORI SINCE MMP. BUT PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING ACTUALLY WHAT WE'VE ACHIEVED. MAORI PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT. THEY'RE SAYING THIS IS THE WORST. THIS IS THE WORST LIST. NO IT ISN'T. I DISAGREE ENTIRELY. SO YOU'RE BANKING ON PEOPLE GIVING YOU THE PARTY VOTE TO HELP GET` FIRSTLY, YOU'VE GOT TO GET INTO PARLIAMENT AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TO GET OTHERS THROUGH FURTHER UP THE LIST. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE PARTY VOTE. YEAH. AND THAT WAY WE GET WILLOW-JEAN PRIME AND KIRITAPU ALLAN` WHY WOULD A MAORI PERSON LOOK AT YOUR LIST AND VOTE FOR YOU? TO VOTE FOR ME PERSONALLY? NO, YOUR PARTY LIST. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE YOUR PARTY VOTE TO LABOUR WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEIR LIST? BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BRING UP ALL THESE NEW MAORI MPS AS WELL AS GET THE ELECTORATE PEOPLE. WE WANT PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR US IN THE ELECTORATE. HOPEFULLY. BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT US, RIGHT? AND IT'S ABOUT MAORIDOM. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DOUBLE FIGURE OF MAORI. THIS IS GOING TO BE HISTORY-MAKING AND PEOPLE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE LABOUR PARTY AND ANDREW LITTLE FOR ENABLING THE CONSTITUTION` THE MAKE UP OF THE LIST AND THE WHOLE STRATEGY OF BRINGING IN DOUBLE FIGURES OF MAORI INTO THE LABOUR CAUCUS POST-ELECTION. DO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE TAKING THE MAORI VOTE FOR GRANTED? GIVEN THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE 700` ABSOLUTELY NOT. THERE'S NOT A DAY THAT WE AREN'T GRATEFUL FOR THE SUPPORT THAT WE'VE RECEIVED` BUT WHY DON'T YOU SHOW THAT ON THE LIST? BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL SEE, IF THEY VOTE FOR ME AS THE ELECTORATE MP, AND THEY VOTE FOR THE LIST, THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 12 MAORI MPS IN PARLIAMENT POST-ELECTION` OK. AND THAT IS UNHEARD OF BEFORE THIS. THIS IS HISTORY-MAKING, MIHI, AND I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUCCESS OF THE STRATEGY. AND WHAT IF YOU DON'T? BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT ME. AND IT'S AN INSURANCE POLICY` THERE'S NO MAORI. T'S NOT ABOUT YOU. IT'S ABOUT MAORI SO WHAT IF YOU DON'T GET THROUGH? SO, IF I DON'T GET THROUGH, THEN BY US STEPPING OFF THE LIST AND BRINGING WILLOW-JEAN PRIME AND KIRITAPU ALLAN FORWARD, THAT MEANS THAT THERE'S AN INSURANCE POLICY THAT THEY WILL BE IN PARLIAMENT BECAUSE OF THE LIST. PEOPLE JUST NEED TO REALISE THE CUNNING OF THE STRATEGY AND HOW WELL IT'S WORKED. THAT'S THE THING ABOUT ELECTIONS, THOUGH, THERE IS NO INSURANCE POLICY, IS THERE? WELL, WE HAVE. WE HAVE CREATED. OK, SO IT'S HISTORY-MAKING ALREADY. WE'VE CREATED THIS INSURANCE POLICY WHERE IF I DON'T WIN MY SEAT, THEN IT ACTUALLY MOVES THE MAORIS ON THE LIST FURTHER FORWARD AND IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THEM TO GET INTO PARLIAMENT SO IT IS AN INSURANCE POLICY. NOT REALLY. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MAORI REPRESENTATION. THEY'RE AT 16. NOT AT 16, 20 AND 21. OR SHANNON HALBERT AT 50. IF YOU LOOK AGAIN, THERE'S ALL THE ELECTORATE MPS. IF THEY WIN, THAT BRINGS THOSE PEOPLE FORWARD. KA PAI. KIA ORA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING THIS MORNING AND FILLING THAT SEAT. TENA KOE. KIA MAU TONU MAI RA E TE IWI, KEI TUA O NGA WHAKTAIRANGA KA MATAPAKIHIA NGA TAKE TORANGAPU O TE WA E TO MATOU PAE KORERO. HOKI MAI ANO. JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL THE WEEK'S POLITICAL MANOEUVRINGS IS MAORI COMMENTATOR AND WRITER MORGAN GODFREY AND FORMER MAORI PARTY CANDIDATE AND COMMENTATOR CHRIS MCKENZIE. TENA KORUA. KIA ORA. LET'S START WITH KELVIN DAVIS. HE SAID THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT PARTY'S MAORI STRATEGY AROUND THE LIST. DO YOU UNDERSTAND HIS POINT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT A BIT MORE? YEAH, I THOUGHT YOU GAVE HIM A HARD TIME, MIHI. FAIR ENOUGH. HE'S QUITE RIGHT THAT IF AN ELECTION WERE HELD TOMORROW, AND LABOUR POLLS ITS 29% OR 30%, THAT THEY WILL HAVE 12 MAORI MPS, AND THAT'S A FULL THIRD OF THEIR CAUCUS, WHICH I THINK IS A REAL BIG STEP FORWARD. A BIG STEP FORWARD. NOT JUST IN THE RAW NUMBERS, BUT LOOKING AT THE TALENT AS WELL, YOU KNOW? YOU'VE GOT KIRITAPU ALLAN THERE, WHO'S STANDING ON THE EAST COAST AND JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE SORT OF CANDIDATE SHE IS, LOOK WHAT SHE DID WHEN THE EDGECUMBE FLOODS HIT. SHE DIDN'T SIT AT HOME AND FIRE OFF A PRESS RELEASE, SHE PUT ON HER GUMBOOTS` SHE DROVE AROUND, YES. YEAH. SHE WENT OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY. SHE GOT HER CARVING KNIFE OUT, AND SHE WENT TO TE TEKO TO HELP ORGANISE FOOD PACKAGES. SHE PICKED UP A TEA TOWEL. SHE WENT OUT TO RAUTAHI MARAE IN KAWERAU THESE ARE THE KIND OF CANDIDATES ON THE LABOUR LIST, SO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THEY'RE 16, 20 OR 21, I THINK IT'S A BIG STEP FORWARD. IT DOESN'T MATTER TOO MUCH TO YOU THAT THEY'RE AT THOSE PLACINGS? YEAH, AS LONG AS THEY POLL BETWEEN 27% AND 30% THEN THOSE LIST MPS ARE IN. CHRIS, DO YOU THINK IT'S OK TO HAVE HOPEFUL ELECTORATE SEATS AND THEN COUNT THEM ALL UP AS THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GET THROUGH? NO, AND I DON'T THINK ALSO THAT IT'S A CUNNING STRATEGY THAT THEY'RE EMPLOYING. ACTUALLY, I THINK IT'S A GAMBLE BECAUSE WHAT THEY SAD IS WHERE WE'RE POLLING NOW, WE WOULD GET EVERYONE IN, BUT THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY TRUE COS LAST NIGHT THEY WERE POLLING AT 28%, AND AT 28%, ACTUALLY, WILLIE AND KIRI DON'T GET IN, AND WE'RE ASSUMING THAT THE ELECTORATES WIN THE MAORI ELECTORATE SEATS. SO, ACTUALLY, IT COULD BE GREAT, WE COULD HAVE 12, WE COULD HAVE A THIRD OF THE CAUCUS, OR IT COULD BE DISASTROUS. BUT KELVIN SAYS HE'S CONFIDENT THEY'LL TAKE THE SIX. AND I'VE NEVER MET AN MP IN ELECTION YEAR THAT'S NOT CONFIDENT. EVERYBODY SAYS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THEM. LET'S GO TO WINSTON PETERS. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT LOTS OF MAORI IN AUSTRALIA WHO ARE FINDING IT REALLY TOUGH AT THE MOMENT WITH THE NEW POLICIES THAT THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT HAS INTRODUCED. IN TERMS OF HIKING TERTIARY FEES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. HIS SUGGESTION IS GO CAP IN HAND TO THE AUSTRALIANS, TO ASK FOR A BIT OF HELP AND SUPPORT FOR NZERS. SHOULD` YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT? YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT IF THE ANZACS WERE AROUND TODAY, THEY'D BE SPEWING AT THE CONDUCT OF THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT. THE THING I FIND REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT I ACTUALLY THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF RACISM IN THE WAY THAT THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT CONDUCTS ITSELF. JUST LOOK AT WHAT JOHN HOWARD DID BACK WHEN HE WAS PRIME MINISTER AND HE PREVENTED NZERS FROM GETTING THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT AND THAT SORT OF THING. THE CODED MESSAGE BACK WHEN JOHN HOWARD DID THAT WAS THESE MAORIS ARE COMING OVER HERE TO SIT ON THE DOLE, AND I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT STILL IN THE COALITION GOVERNMENT. WINSTON SAID IT'S NOT THE MAORI THAT WENT INTO THE MINES. THOSE ARE THE HARD WORKERS. HE SAID WE'VE HAD THIS DOOR THAT'S OPENED AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE COME THROUGH US TO GET THERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK? HE DID SUGGEST THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME THINGS THAT WE COULD DO TO KIND OF BITE BACK? DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE HAVING TARGETED POLICIES FOR AUSTRALIANS HERE? WELL, I THINK IT'S A BIT TWO-FACED OF WINSTON. ON THE ONE HAND, HE HAS MAINTAINED HIS POLITICAL SUPPORT BY ABSOLUTELY TRYING TO BAN IMMIGRATION OF ANY SORT IN THIS COUNTRY, AND NOW HE'S SUGGESTING THAT WE SHOULD GO TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, AND ASK THEM TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR OUR PEOPLE TO GET THERE. SECONDLY, I THINK THAT NZ AND AUSTRALIA SHARE A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP. CLEARLY THAT RELATIONSHIP ISN'T ON AN EQUAL FOOTING, AND AUSTRALIA DOESN'T FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT IT. ACTUALLY, WE PROBABLY NEED TO GET OUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER, AND THERE'S ALWAYS A POLITICAL OUTLET AND A DISCUSSION TO BE HAD, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO SORT OUR OWN HOUSE OUT. SPEAKING ABOUT GETTING OUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER, WE ALL KNOW THERE AR PEOPLE WHO ARE RETURNING HOME FROM AUSTRALIA BECAUSE THINGS ARE BECOMING TOO TOUGH THERE. WHAT WILL WE DO FOR THE PERCENTAGE OF THE 300,000 MAORI THAT WILL PROBABLY RETURN TO THE PROVINCES? WHERE WILL THEY GO AND HOW WILL WE COPE WITH THEM? WELL, YOU'VE GOTTA HOPE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO RETURN TO THE PROVINCE BECAUSE AUCKLAND INFRASTRUCTURE CANNOT HANDLE AN INFLUX OF LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE, AND THE GOVERNMENT'S GOTTA ADDRESS THAT. THERE ARE TAX INCENTIVES FOR BUSINESSES ON` THEY HAVE THEIR REGIONAL GROWTH AGENDA AT THE MOMENT, BUT THAT NEEDS TO BE RAMPED UP. IT NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED. WE HAVE TO GET PEOPLE IN SOME OF THESE TOWNS THAT HAVE WORKERS AND NEED THE WORK. AND THEN WE'VE GOT THE ISSUE OF AUSTRALIA SENDING HOME ANYONE WHO'S GOT A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, A BIG ONE, AND YOU'VE GOT KELVIN DAVIS, WHO'S DONE A LOT FO WORK AROUND THAT. DO YOU KNOW HOW ARE WE COPING WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ARRIVING HOME? IS THERE ENOUGH SUPPORT STILL FOR THEM? YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE COPING WELL WHETHER IT'S MAORI RETURNING HOME OR WHETHER IT'S NEW MIGRANTS COMING HERE. I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS DONE ENOUGH PLANNING LIKE, AUCKLAND HOUSE PRICES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF. WE KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE MAORI AND YOU'RE COMING BACK, THERE ARE MORE MAORI OUT OF WORK, THERE ARE MORE MAORI IN PRISON. IT'S BECOMING HARDER AND HARDER FOR MAORI FAMILIES TO MAKE ENDS MEET. I THINK WHATEVER SIDE OF THE DITCH YOU'RE ON, IT'S PRETTY BLEAK. I ASKED MR PETERS WHO MIGHT BE THE FIRST MAORI PRIME MINISTER, AND HE SAID THERE HAD BEEN TWO WHO HAD FILLED THE JOB, JAMES CARROLL AND HIMSELF. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? DO YOU THINK WE'LL HAVE ONE IN THE FUTURE? WHO MIGHT IT BE? WE WILL, BUT IT'S AN INDICTMENT ON THE COUNTRY THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD A PRIME MINISTER, A LONG-SERVING PRIME MINISTER TO DATE, AND THAT'S AN INDICTMENT. WE SHOULD ADDRESS THAT. MY HEART SAYS THAT MARAMA FOX IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT MAORI PRIME MINISTER, BUT REALISTICALLY THE NEXT MAORI PRIME MINISTER WILL COME FROM LABOUR OR NATIONAL, AND IF WE HAVE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE LIST CANDIDATES, I'M GOING TO PUT MY MONEY BEHIND SOMEBODY LIKE WILLOW-JEAN PRIME. INTERESTING. YEAH, MY THOUGHTS ARE IT'S ALWAYS THE BEST MAORI POLITICIANS, OR THE MOST SUCCESSFUL, ARE ALWAYS CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS. IT'S WINSTON PETERS, IT'S JAMES CARROLL, IT'S APIRANA NGATA. ARE THEY SIMILAR? SO` OH, THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR. WINSTON IS VERY MUCH LIKE JAMES CARROLL. JAMES CARROLLL WAS NOTORIOUS ON THE WELLINGTON SCENE. HE WAS VERY PROMINENT, AND I THINK WINSTON'S RELATIVELY SIMILAR AND THEY PLAY THE SAME SORT OF CONSERVATIVE LINES. JAMES CARROLL, HE WAS RURAL MAN. HE PLAYED THE SAME SORT OF RURAL GAME THAT WINSTON PLAYS. BACK TO THE POINT ABOUT CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS, IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A MAORI PRIME MINISTER, THEY WILL BE CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE THE LEAST THREATENING. YOU KNOW, PAKEHA NZ WOULD PROBABLY LOOK AT MARAMA FOX AND THINK SHE'S TOO RADICAL FOR US. HAVE YOU GOT A PICK? NO. NO. I HOPE IT'S NO ONE IN THE CURRENT NATIONAL PARTY. SOMEONE FROM TE TEKO, PERHAPS. (LAUGHS) HERE'S HOPING. KIRI ALLAN. WELL, TENA KOURUA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CHAT THIS MORNING. KIA ORA. HEI TERA WIKI I RUNGA I A TE HUI. HE KAUPAPA NUI WHAKAHARAHARA. REMEMBERING A MOTHER AND DAUGHTER, TARA BROWN. NATALIE HINTON'S ONLY DAUGHTER WAS BRUTALLY KILLED BY ER EX-PARTNER IN 2015. SHE WAS GORGEOUS. SHE WAS REALLY LOVING. SHE LOVED EVERYTHING. SHE LOVED LIFE. THE YONG KIWI'S HORRIFIC MURDER ON A SUBURBAN STREET BROUGHT THE UGLY FACE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OUT OF THE SHADOWS. THE PUBLIC MURDER OF TARA BROWN WAS THE MOMENT THAT STOPPED THE NATION. WE STOOD STILL. NOW THIS MUM AND GRANDMOTHER IS TRYING TO KEEP HER DAUGHTER'S MEMORY ALIVE WHILE PUTTING A STOP TO THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY, HUI HOPPERS. 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