MORENA, GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` THE SPECIAL VOTES HAVE DELIVERED LABOUR AND GREENS A SEAT EACH, WHILE NATIONAL HAS DROPPED TWO. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR COALITION NEGOTIATIONS EXPECTED TO BE COMPLETED THIS WEEK? WE HAVE AN EXTENDED PANEL. AND CORIN DANN WILL ASK FORMER LABOUR LEADER AND AUCKLAND MAYOR PHIL GOFF WHAT HE WANTS FROM A NEW GOVERNMENT. PLUS ` WITH THE SPECIAL VOTES HANDING THE LEFT BLOCK TWO SEATS, WE TALK TO THE NEW LABOUR AND GREEN PARTY MPS. THEN ` THE COST OF FOOD IS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH. NEW ZEALAND LAMB'S CHEAPER IN ENGLAND THAN IT IS IN NEW ZEALAND, WHICH IS SO STRANGE. WE LIVE HERE, AND WE KNOW THAT WE ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF. WHENA OWEN FINDS OUT WHY WE'RE PAYING OVER THE ODDS. CAPTIONS BY SHRUTIKA GUNANAYAGAM AND FAITH HAMBLYN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017. AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR EXTENDED PANEL, POLITICAL SCIENTIST DR RAYMOND MILLER FROM AUCKLAND UNIVERSITY, STEVE MAHAREY ` FORMER LABOUR MINISTER, FORMER VICE CHANCELLOR OF MASSEY UNIVERSITY, NOW AN INDEPENDENT DIRECTOR; RICHARD PREBBLE, FORMER ACT PARTY LEADER AND FORMER LABOUR PARTY MINISTER; DR RUSSEL NORMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF GREENPEACE NEW ZEALAND AND FORMER GREEN PARTY CO-LEADER. WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU SHORTLY, BUT FIRST HERE'S CORIN. THANKS, GREG. LET'S LOOK AT THE RESULTS AND WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF SEATS IN THE HOUSE. SO NATIONAL DROPS TWO SEATS TO 56. LABOUR PICK UP ONE TO 46. GREENS ALSO PICK UP ONE TO EIGHT. NZ FIRST STAY THE SAME ON 9, ACT ALSO ON ONE. THE CRUCIAL NUMBERS TO BEAR IN MIND, THOUGH, WHEN THINKING ABOUT THE TWO COALITION OPTIONS IS THAT IF YOU ADD NATIONAL AND NZ FIRST, YOU WOULD GET 65 SEATS. ADD LABOUR, GREENS, NZ FIRST, AND IT'S 63 ` VERY LITTLE IN IT AT ALL. Those extra to see so crucial to the extra left. It gives them a buffer. THIS IS WHAT THE LEADERS OF THE MAIN PARTIES HAD TO SAY AFTER THE OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT CAME IN. WE WELCOME THE FINAL ELECTION RESULTS. IT CONFIRMS A STRONG POSITION FOR NATIONAL AS THE LARGEST PARTY ` 10 SEATS AHEAD OF THE LABOUR PARTY AND STILL AHEAD OF A LABOUR-GREENS COMBINATION. SO WE NOW LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING ON AND FORMING A STRONG AND ENDURING GOVERNMENT. THOSE NEGOTIATIONS WITH NZ FIRST HAVE BEGUN, AND WE'D EXPECT THEM NOW TO PROCEED AT SOME PACE THROUGH THIS WEEK. DO YOU THINK THAT THIS NOW PUTS YOU ON A LEVEL PEGGING WITH NATIONAL IN TERMS OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS? ABSOLUTELY. THIS NOW MEANS THAT WE HAVE A STRENGTHENED MANDATE TO NEGOTIATE AND FORM A DURABLE, STABLE COALITION GOVERNMENT. LOOK, THE GREEN PART IS ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED TODAY LOOK, THE GREEN PARTY IS ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED TODAY THAT GOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN WILL BE JOINING US IN OUR CAUCUS AS THE EIGHTH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR THE GREEN PARTY IN THE 52ND PARLIAMENT OF NZ, SO... (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. WE ARE ALL TRYING TO GET OUR HEADS AROUND WHAT IS GOING ON. Richard Preble, do you think Jacinda Arden is right, that there has been a vote against the status quo? That National no longer has a moral matter? That is rubbish. The National party has done very well. When Labour lost Helen Clark, they have only gone up 3% from then. that does not mean to say that we could not have a College and of the losers and she be a minister. It is not fair. We are talking about a majority system. If you have 61 seats, away you go. It would not be a great government, But it is possible. This is New Zealand First and Labour. Are they really that close when you think about social issues? When we talk about the fact that New Zealand First talks about immigration being about ethnicity and race. These two parties have to look at how they work on issues like that. If you look at the agenda, there is a closer correlation between New Zealand First and Labour there New Zealand First and National. There is no moral mandate here. It is a majority. It is interesting that you talked about Labour-New Zealand First. We do the Greens fit in? Are they going to be locked up? They are central to form a majority. If you look at National, act and the Conservatives, They have dropped from 50 to 245. There is a big swing against the right in these final results. There is been a big turn against the right. The Greens are a critical part of that. The central issues around the selection were about the environment. The Greens have a Critical role there. Look at New Zealand First environmental policy. Look at deep sea oil drilling. They say they should be proper safeguards. Our government has said that there are no consultations. The Greens are really trying to bring change on water. They are not going to get that from New Zealand First. New Zealand First has said that they are not happy with the state of water in New Zealand. National are now quite isolated. They have lost all their potential coalition allies. The mainstream of New Zealand wants to move on and wants action on water. Do you see Winston Peters as some sort of threat to the neoliberal establishment. You were instrumental in bringing in the reserve Bank act. He is a populist. Do you believe he is genuine about things about the reserve Bank? I do not think he is genuine about anything. Coalition talks will not be about policy. Policy takes ages to put together. You cannot put together a government based on policy by Thursday. You can put together a government based opposition, and you can do it in a day. If I was Jacinda, I would walk up to Winston Peters and ask him to become prime minister. They would have a government just like that. All the policy issues would disappear if Winston was offered Prime Minister ship. Will she do it? Who knows. Hasn't she ruled that out? Richard is being as cheeky as he normally is about these things. We are now going into coalition talks. They have tried to set the broad framework. They are now going into policy. What they have to do is decide on what other policies that New Zealand First wants to be known for over the next three years, and the Greens. If they can do that well, it will work okay. If they cannot do that, there is a problem. They need to figure out what they want to be known before. I think Winston Peters is rational and target enough. To say what he wants on the table. What would be the top ones in your mind for a centre-left block? His constituency is older New Zealanders he needs a base to go into the next election. While you were a coleader of the Greens, you spent quite some time exploring the idea of how the Greens could work with National. It was explored. Why cannot the Greens get that one right so they are not in the position where they are locked out? That is a wrong way to pose the question, I think. I think the National party needs to look at itself. It has followed these policies of subsidising pollution` that is your difference of opinion. That is not MMP. The world has moved on National is isolated. They have no allies left. On one of the key issues for New Zealanders, which is the environment` you are still locked into this mode where you can look at this as an MMP issue and be pragmatic. I think what National needs to do to be more relevant as to move on these critical issues for New Zealand. You looked at it as a caucus and party when you were ran. What did you come up with? What we did was we worked with them on some critical issues. We did the Insulation fund. We look at the cycleway together. Thinking of climate change, this is the critical issue facing the country. National says that they are not going to have consultation. They will go ahead with deep sea oil drilling. They are heading in exactly the wrong direction. The OECD just wrote a report criticising the New Zealand government. you are saying that The teal stuff is rubbish. If National were to change its policies, you would find common ground. In the selection, it is very difficult. What you make of where we are at compare to 2005 and 1996? Do we have anything to be particularly worried about? Just to mention the point that Russell has raised, I cannot imagine how you could possibly have a green-National government. Under present circumstances. I think someone has put this up as a joke, because I think it would tear the Green party apart. There is a question of trust here. What we know is that if you signal before an election that you might do this, then the voting public know that, but to do the opposite of what you have said you would do something that we know that causes havoc in terms of electoral support. What if there is no deal done? What if Labour and National cannot do a deal? A likely scenario as some form of confidence and supply That is what will come out of this. I do not see a formal coalition, quite frankly. Winston Peters has always had problems with the collective will of cabinet inside government. We know that ended disastrously in 1998. There will be some form of government formed of supply and confidence being offered. You had that agreement in 2005 with Winston Peters. What should we interpret from his behaviour? How difficult is it to make that deal? It worked in 2005 and in It. He was absolutely fine. He knew what he wanted. He did not poke his nose in other parts of your government's business? He came to Cabinet committee meetings. He did his duties as you would expect. He came to Cabinet meetings. He came to the meetings he was meant to. Yes, can work. He has been there and he has experienced it. We are rushing to much. This is a proportionate representation system. The Germans are not going to form a government till Christmas. We want this done by the end of the week. This is a system that requires people to negotiate. It should be done carefully. You do not think it's possible to do a college and in five days. None of New Zealand first policies were costed. They just said that they were as a whole lot of spending, which independent people says more than any party. If you are going to go into college in with anybody, you have to have a budget. You cannot cost his promises in a week. that's why I do not think New Zealand First is thinking about policy. You are assuming that he is going to dump all the other policies, which you may well be right on. The rail and the poor policies, and I am telling you as a former Minister of Transport and railways, they are huge items, and they would blow the budget. If you are going to seriously talk about it, you could not do it by Thursday. How tough should Bill English or Jacinda I don't be with Winston Peters? Do they say that they will not compromise on certain areas? I think they failed already. They have let the tail wag the dog and let Winston set the rules for both of them. Are you serious about that? They are the two major parties, and they could have said that they will set the rules of coalitions if you keep on holding us to ransom, I will put through a bill and go back to 1st past the post and have another election and 12 months time. They could do that. There are rules about post-election negotiations. It is not just anything goes. What are those rules? The biggest party gets to initiate the conversation. You cannot have necessarily the sort of playing off one against the other. We should have a conversation that says what should the post-election conversation look like? What would be like it to look like? I don't think that's a bad conversation to have. They could maybe do that before the election, and that would be hell. CORRECTION: helpful. Here in New Zealand, and I want to be fair to the former parties, Without access to the Treasury, how can you cost many things? how can you cost a rail project without talking to Kiri rail? What Winston has said has been accurate. His style has been misleading. He said that we had to wait till specials. It has changed what we all expected. What he has said has been fine. The style has been a bit annoying. He has done self a lot of harm in the way that he has talked, but what he has said has been quite sensible. The one thing that I am unhappy with is trying to do this in a very short period of time without some of the constraints that have been mentioned. Do you think some idea of rules on the timeframe would be helpful? 21 years into MMP, and it is remarkable how little we have actually learnt into how will you form government. There needs to be certain rules to take away some of the doubt. A lot of the public are very upset with what they see, in part because they think the party who gets the most votes should automatically form the government. This is not the case under MMP. A centre-left grouping would be as legitimate as a National-New Zealand First grouping. There needs to be a certain process` some people will never accept that. There are many opponents of MMP who will never accept the outcome of an MMP election. We need to step back and think deeply about what position we put ourselves in three years to make sure we don't keep making the same mistakes. What you think Winston will do? SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. AFTER THE BREAK, AUCKLAND MAYOR PHIL GOFF ` WHAT'S HIS TAKE, AFTER THE BREAK, AUCKLAND MAYOR PHIL GOFF ` WHAT'S HIS TAKE, AND WHAT'S HE LOOKING FOR FROM A NEW NZ-FIRST-FLAVOURED GOVERNMENT? JOINING ME IS FORMER LABOUR LEADER AND NOW AUCKLAND MAYOR PHIL GOFF, WHO'S BEEN IN THE JOB ONE YEAR TODAY. I have been in Parliament for a long time with Winston and now to be on the outside looking in. What I want as mere As a government that will look at the issues affecting Auckland. When you worked with Winston Peters, he took your job as Foreign Minister, that he did a good job and could be trusted and relied on? I had to move into trade. That led into the free-trade agreement with China. He did not stop you doing that. He voted against that but wasn't very strong in his opposition. He understood the benefits of the trade agreement. To be fair on Winston, I think he worked coolly Julie with the cabinet. He kept to his word. As Auckland Mayor, very important relationship with central government. I have to work professionally with whoever makes up the new government, and I am willing to do that. I will do that in good faith. There will be no surprise policy, maintaining confidentiality. I am happy to do that with whatever government comes up. You cannot just confiscate an asset that is owned by the ratepayers of Auckland that gives them 50 million a year. I want to move the port out of the CBD. Where that is, though, needs to be talked about. What I would recommend to all the four parties that are in this negotiation ` most of the freight that comes into New Zealand, comes through the North Island. What we need is an upper North Island Port study. This is my message directly to all that negotiating parties. You will start to see what benefits the Auckland, the region and the country might have. I wonder if you are looking forward to the referendum on North Rodney leaving the supercity. We have had an independent study done that will show the rate increase will be significant. Your council would like maori Wards on the council. We think we should have a proportionate system. If you choose to go the Maori role, there will be a number of seats proportionate to that. I do not think Winston Peters will be favourable to that. You can probably say that he will not allow that to happen in any government he is a part of. At the moment, we have our ward councillors aligned with our local boards. We are not able to create another ward without trying all that out. You need the government to pick up the slack on infrastructure and transport funding. What are negotiations will be around is how Auckland can make the contribution it needs to. If Auckland does not succeed, the New Zealand is going to struggle. What is our challenge at the moment? We are growing by 50,000 people year. We add the city a size of Tooronga every three years. Immigration could affect our planning, but there is an enormous backlog in terms of shortage of housing. 800 cars a week are added to our roads. Auckland are starting to clog up. A study said that it is costing Auckland $2 billion a year. I wonder if you want to cut immigration as well. You have to match immigration to the ability of the infrastructure to cater for that. You have not got the money to cater for it so you do need the car. When you have that sort of growth, normally you would borrow to invest in infrastructure. We have had to borrow so much, for example for the city rail link. We have to put 1.7 billion into that over the next few years. We are constrained by debt to revenue ratio. Borrowing is not an easy answer for Auckland. Most of the migrants go to Auckland. be helpful. Easing the pressure population would be bbe helpful, but it has some downsides. We are not talking about different types of people; we are talking numbers. We still have an enormous backlog. There is estimated to be a 40,000 housing shortage for the housing size of Auckland at the moment. For years and years, wwe did not invest in the infrastructure Auckland needs. Auckland is New Zealand's globally competitive city. Winston Peters would like to give back GST to local councils. Revenue sharing between local and central government ` an easy answer, and nobody has signed up for this yet And I'm not sure they will world. We will put the tax on the tax. GST on rates. An easy way for the government to help cities is to return GST on rates back to the cities. I would welcome that from any party who would endorse that policy. For Auckland, that would be worth $239 million a year. That would help us make substantial progress on infrastructure. That is quite a big hole, in the government's books though. If you create a super city, those 50,000 people I talked about, they will pay tax, but it goes to central government. Central government has a $4 billion surplus a year. Local government is screaming out for money and has no wider revenue base to draw on to meet those infrastructure costs. A lot of positive noises There about Winston Peters. But what about his noises about immigration in terms of ethnicity? One of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, but it works for Auckland. It brings diversity and richness of culture. It brings the energy and skills we get from overseas. I do not think any political party is going to be able to change the fact that we are a multiethnic city. We are a role model for how the world gets on. We live, grow up and get on pretty well together. No one can change that. Your pledge on the rate it is going to be a huge challenge. I am going to fight to preserve that. What I am looking for is different forms of revenue. Auckland has got to put some skin in the game itself. That is why we will say to central government again that we need like the special-purpose vehicle to build 23,000 extra homes. We need other forms of revenue, and our road pricing system is a no-brainer. I have said to the Chief Executive that I am not happy with the level of salary increases at the top level. We are bringing in the living wage to help our lowest-paid workers. We also need to have restraint. The Mayor's office will reflect that. We will be giving away the Mayoral car and the chauffeur. We do not need that Extravagant spending. AFTER THE BREAK, WE'LL MEET NEW ZEALAND'S NEWEST MPS ` JOINING ME NOW IS GOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN FROM THE GREEN PARTY AND LABOUR'S ANGIE WARREN-CLARK. Welcome to you both. Congratulations. You both had two weeks on tenterhooks. Now you have four days. You don't know where you will be in this scenario. It is a waiting game.� I am privileged. The whole country is waiting. In the Green party, we focus on getting a stronger green voice. Whether an opposition or government. We are happy to have that strengthened. How much of a focus is women's refuge were going to be for you? It is an absolute focus. When you work in refuge, you hear stories of families and you carry them with you. I am a feminist, so I am passionate about social justice and around the fact in our country, one in three women are affected by violence. What would a potential Labour government do to deal with this? We have a sound policy across the board. Part of it is an important factor, which is the increase of funding to the front line services, which I am very happy about. It is a cross government opportunity for us to make a shift. Much is made of your past. You are New Zealand's first refugee MP. How much your focus will immigration, refugee numbers, going to be for you? Have you spoken much about that? We haven't, but immigration policy for the Greens is about investing in people. We want to get the country back to investing in solving the housing crisis. Sustainable jobs, and for people here and folk people who are coming. What about you? I have realised having my story in my face in New Zealand's House of Representatives means a lot. I have had an outpouring of support from all over the world. I have realised it means something to kiwis. We are from diverse backgrounds. I carry that with me. Representation matters. The area you have worked and goes hand-in-hand with P, meth and the problems that go with that. Methamphetamine is part of a wider picture around poverty, lack of choices. It is not something that is only about domestic violence. It's about our society. It is something we need to get rid of. I see our whakapapa being destroyed because of methamphetamine. It is easier to get than marijuana. I am really passionate about seeing an end to this. It is part of it and is fuelling it. As you say, it is easier to get than cannabis. It is around that psychotic behaviour, violence. What we see at refuge is the fact that ReVia sleep, these families may have managed the behaviour of the violence, but now we have this whole other additional factor, which is unpredictability and unmanageable behaviour. Golriz, your background is as a human rights lawyer. It is a helluva change for somebody so young to have gone on that to this. I don't know that it is. We need systemic change. Watching this government pass this legislation under urgency to cut off the families of disabled persons from the human rights act, I am used to acting for refugees or criminally accused persons, but family members of disabled persons? I felt the urgency when I saw things like that happenunder national. I need to change the law. With both of you in the at different areas of what you do, you are both at the coalface. You will be arm's-length now. It is longer term now. There is micro and macro. There is the opportunity to work and affect change within your community or across the country. I am looking forward to that opportunity. I will be a backbencher, so there won't be amazing things to start off with. You don't know. What policies would you look at? What policies should change to really start to push the tied back on this problem? Around methamphetamine, we need to look at drugs across the board as a health issue. We need to consider that there needs to be more rehabilitation, we have won the bed and it is based in Whakatane. We don't have a residential facility. There is the movement across all of the mental health areas as well, which are affected by the use of methamphetamine. It is a whole picture. I am proud of labours policies around health and mental health, which builds into the use of drugs. Both of you got the word is today. What does the next week or two hold for you? We go to Wellington. And we get a much shorter induction. We missed out on the seven day one. Apparently can do it in a day. Best of luck to both of you. AFTER THE BREAK ` DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE FORKING OUT MORE FOR FOOD? CAN ANYTHING BE DONE TO MAKE THE BASICS MORE AFFORDABLE? YOU'VE PROBABLY NOTICED FOOD PRICES ARE GOING UP. THIS YEAR HAS SEEN THE BIGGEST HIKE IN FOOD PRICES SINCE 2011, WHEN GST WAS RAISED TO 15%. AND WHO CAN BELIEVE THE PRICE OF BUTTER? THERE ARE CALLS FOR AN INQUIRY INTO WHY. REPORTER WHENA OWEN INVESTIGATES. (POUNDING ELECTRONIC MUSIC) IT'S NOW A CULTURAL CLICHE ` IF YOU WANT AN OPINION ON WHETHER WE'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR FOOD, ASK A TOURIST OR A KIWI WHO'S RETURNED FROM LIVING OVERSEAS. SO WE DID. FOR MATT AND JENNY, BACK FROM A STINT LIVING IN BRITAIN, THEN AUSTRALIA, THE WEEKLY SHOP HAS BECOME THE WEEKLY SHOCK. WELL, I THINK WE FEEL A LITTLE AGGRIEVED BY THE FACT THAT WE PRODUCE SO MUCH GOOD-QUALITY STUFF, IT COSTS SO MUCH TO LIVE IN NEW ZEALAND. DOWN AT A WELLINGTON CAMPERVAN PARK, TOM SIMON, FROM MIDDLESBROUGH IN ENGLAND, HAS JUST FINISHED LUNCH ` MINCE, ON SPECIAL. WHAT STRUCK YOU WHEN YOU WENT INTO YOUR FIRST SUPERMARKET? I WAS LOOKING AT THE PRICE OF MEAT. AND I LIKE TO EAT A LOT OF MEAT BACK HOME, AND STEAK, CHICKEN ` YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL SO EXPENSIVE. NZ LAMB'S CHEAPER IN ENGLAND THAN IT IS IN NZ, WHICH IS SO STRANGE. AND BREAD AND DAIRY PRODUCTS ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE. CHEESE IS A LUXURY TO US NOW WHEN WE'RE TRAVELLING. BUT A VISITING ENGLISHMAN IS SAYING NOTHING NEW TO KIWIS ALREADY DEALING WITH ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL PRESSURES. WE LIVE HERE, AND WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GETTING RIPPED OFF. CANNONS CREEK LOCAL IDENTITY IGOA PAUL. YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE SENDING ALL OUR GOOD FOOD TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD AND WE GET LEFT WITH THE CRAP. # ...PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. # THIS YEAR HAS SEEN THE BIGGEST HIKE IN FOOD PRICES SINCE 2011, WHEN GST WAS RAISED. BUT COMPARED WITH THE INFLATION OF OTHER CONSUMER RETAIL GOODS, FOOD HAS INCREASED AT TWICE THE RATE. IN NZ, 90% OF FOOD RETAIL IS CONTROLLED BY TWO COMPANIES ` PROGRESSIVES AND FOODSTUFFS. KATHERINE RICH IS THE CHIEF FOOD INDUSTRY LOBBYIST AND HEAD OF THE FOOD AND GROCERY COUNCIL. SO, ON A WEBSITE GIVING ADVICE TO PEOPLE MOVING TO NEW ZEALAND OR TRAVELLING, IT SAYS, (READS) 'THE MAJOR SUPERMARKETS ARE A RIP-OFF. 'THE REASON IS SIMPLE; IT'S A MONOPOLY, 'OR, RATHER, A COSY DUOPOLY, WHERE FOODSTUFFS AND PROGRESSIVE 'OWN NEARLY EVERY SUPERMARKET IN THE COUNTRY.' THAT IS THE PERCEPTION, BUT IT'S NOT THE REALITY. AND WHILE WE CAN EXPLAIN VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THAT` I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS THE PERCEPTION, BUT WHEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT GOODS IN THE SUPERMARKET IN NZ AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE COMPETITION BETWEEN THE MAJOR SUPERMARKET BRANDS AND YOU PURCHASE ON PROMOTION, NZ FOOD IS ON PAR WITH MANY OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. BUT THE ANECDOTES PERSIST. WE LEFT ENGLAND; WE LIVED IN AUSTRALIA, AND, AS YOU'RE PROBABLY AWARE, THERE'S NO GST ON FOOD. BEARING IN MIND THAT AUSTRALIAN SALARIES AND WAGES ARE PROBABLY HIGHER THAN IN NEW ZEALAND. NEVERTHELESS, THE FOOD IS NOT IN PROPORTION WITH THAT; IT'S ACTUALLY CHEAPER THAN THAT. (POUNDING ELECTRONIC MUSIC) BUT IS THAT ABOUT ECONOMIES OF SCALE? LET'S HEAR IT FROM A PROFESSIONAL, ASB'S CHIEF ECONOMIST, NICK TUFFLEY. THERE WILL BE A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY OUR FOOD PRICES SEEM RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE. FOR ONE THING, WE DON'T SUBSIDISE OUR AGRICULTURAL SECTOR ANY MORE. WE HAVE GOODS AND SERVICES TAX RIGHT ACROSS ALL OUR FOOD. WHEN YOU GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES, LIKE AUSTRALIA, THE US, EUROPE, THEY EITHER HAVE NO TAX ON THEIR FOOD OR REDUCED RATES OF TAX, WHICH ARE LOWER THAN OURS. WE ALSO NEED TO BEAR IN MIND WE'VE GOT LESS THAN THE POPULATION OF SYDNEY SPREAD ACROSS THE UK, SO OUR DISTRIBUTION COSTS WILL ALSO BE A LOT HIGHER. BUTTER STOCKS AROUND THE WORLD ARE VERY LOW, SO WE'RE SEEING A REAL PRICE SQUEEZE, AND THAT'S DOUBLED THE PRICE OF BUTTER IN WHOLESALE MARKETS. AND HERE IN NZ, WE'VE SEEN A BLOCK OF BUTTER GO UP BY $2 OVER THE LAST YEAR. WE'RE GIVEN MANY REASONS WHY OUR FOOD IS EXPENSIVE. SHOULD WE ACCEPT THE STATUS QUO? I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD. COUNCIL OF TRADE UNIONS ECONOMIST BILL ROSENBURG ` WE MANAGE TO SHIP THINGS LIKE MILK POWDER AND CHEESE AND SO ON HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD AND SELL IT AT COMPETITIVE PRICES, AND YET WE HAVE PRICES HERE THAT ON SOME COMPARISONS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THOSE IN THE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD, THE OECD. SOMEONE MUST BE MAKING SOME MONEY. BACK IN CANNONS CREEK, THESE PARENTS TELL US THEY'VE FELT THE JUMP IN BASIC FOOD PRICES. WE DO OUR OWN GROCERY SHOPPING, EH. SOMETIMES YOU JUST TEND TO, LIKE, MISS A WEEK SOMETIMES AND JUST GET THOSE FOOD PARCELS. DO YOU MISS A WEEK COS IT'S JUST TOO... ...EXPENSIVE, YEAH. TOO EXPENSIVE. YEAH. RIGHT. WE JUST GET OUR DAUGHTERS STUFF. IT'S EASIER TO EAT UNHEALTHY THAN TO EAT GOOD HERE, YOU KNOW? A PIE IS CHEAPER THAN GETTING VEGETABLES AND FRESH MEAT. AND HEALTH IS JUST ONE REASON WHY NZ FIRST WANTS GST REMOVED FOR SOME FOOD. WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK REMOVING GST ON SOME OF THOSE HEALTHY FOOD PRODUCTS WOULD MAKE TO THE PRICE IN THE SUPERMARKET? I THINK IT WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON PRICE INITIALLY, BUT EVENTUALLY, IT WOULD PROBABLY GET LOST IN THE FLUCTUATIONS OF FOOD PRICES FOR OTHER REASONS, FOR EXAMPLE, SEASONALITY, PROMOTIONS, ETC. THE OTHER THING IS, THOUGH, YOU COULD MAKE BRUSSELS SPROUTS INCREDIBLY CHEAP; IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE EATEN IN GREATER VOLUME BY PEOPLE. THE NATIONAL PARTY SAYS ITS FAMILY INCOMES PACKAGE IS DESIGNED TO HELP FAMILIES MEET THEIR COSTS, INCLUDING FOOD. LABOUR WITHDREW ITS POLICY DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN TO REMOVE GST ON BASIC FOOD. INSTEAD, JACINDA ARDERN HAS PROMISED THE COST OF FOOD IN NZ. BILL ROSENBURG BACKS THAT CALL. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT IS THE DEGREE OF COMPETITION IN RETAILING, PARTICULARLY IN THE SUPERMARKET SECTOR, BECAUSE WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY TWO LARGE CHAINS THAT DOMINATE THE SUPERMARKET SECTOR. OUR SUPERMARKET CHAINS ARE VERY COMPETITIVE IN THE SENSE OF TRYING VERY HARD TO GET LOW COSTS OUT OF THEIR SUPPLIES FOR THEIR FOOD. IF YOU DO LOOK AT OTHER MARKETS, THOUGH, YOU DO SEE, IN PLACES LIKE THE US, A LOT MORE COMPETITION. AND IN GERMANY, THE SUPERMARKET INDUSTRY ` AN EXAMPLE WHERE IT'S AGGRESSIVELY COMPETITIVE. AND YOU DO HAVE REALLY LOW-COST DISCOUNTERS AS WELL, WHO CAN DRIVE THE COST OF FOOD PRICES DOWN. # ...FOOD ON THE TABLE. BUT IF YOU'RE SURVIVING DAY-TO-DAY, ECONOMIC THEORY IS NOT GOING TO FEED THE FAMILY. THEY NEED TO MAKE THE PRICES CHEAPER, OR SOMETHING'S GONNA HAPPEN. THERE'S GONNA BE MORE CRIME AND ALL THAT. IF THEY DON'T BRING THE...? YEAH, IF THEY DON'T BRING THE PRICES DOWN. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL. No matter what you do, Brussels sprouts will not be eaten. The duopoly model should be stopping this and it is not. It does look like a monopoly. There are only two major players. The enquiry willing spleen prices to people. You have to remember that we are a food producing country. For people who produce what those horticultural goods, they would like prices to go up. The enquiry would help that as well. If we are going to make the best of our base, we have to make sure those people are returned for it. We saw with the enquiry on petrol, there was bluster and prices dropped. They crept up again. That is always the problem with an enquiry like that. With petrol and food, we all do it. We all shop. We all know when things are going up. When � to 1/3 of someone's wages are spent on food, you must have two ask the question of why it is that itPlace in New Zealand that people are paying so much. The supermarket you up as part of the problem. Some places bringing in 1/3 or fourth retailer, it has made a difference. It has to be something like that. It is possible because of the duopoly, wwe also have to look at the income. Wages and benefits in New Zealand. To give national their due, they increased benefits. That is the first time that has happened since Shipley. It is still low. That makes it difficult for people to afford this in food. We want to make sure that in a decent amount of money gets through to the growers. If you want sustainable practices, we want to make sure growers get a decent income. We don't want to drive food down to the lowest possible price. That wouldn't have great long-term outcomes. Richard Preble, junkfood is a lot cheaper than fresh food. On one hand we are complaining about obesity, but we are doing nothing about it. We are not making decent food cheaper. Frankly, the price of food fluctuates. We have the debate every few years. Dairy products have gone up. We should pay less dairy. We are all too politically correct. The price of cigarettes has affected us most. If we cut the tax on cigarettes, we would put more money into families. We are unsympathetic to smokers, and then we complain that the addicts don't feed their kids right. Should we go vegan? Probably, but you first. Less food and dairy for environmental reasons. A large amount of the world don't eat any dairy at all. When I hear people complaining about butter, that is not going to cause anybody to starve in this country. We are a dairy exporting country, so that is a good thing. When I go into households around my neighbourhood, I hear kids aren't going to school because there is no food and given food, every household, all of the adults smoke. That is a reality. Increasing the price of cigarettes has had very little difference in the amount of smoking we are doing. It has made a huge difference to child poverty. We should realise we have overdone it on the cigarettes. We will leave it there to the world's newest beacon, Richard Preble. LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL ` GREG AND RAYMOND AND CORIN. Are we any the wiser what is going to happen between now and Thursday? I don't think so. All the cards are held by Winston Peters. We don't know what will happen. My own sense, the likelihood is new is a first will do a deal with national. Since yesterday, the centre-left grouping has grown in strength, but I have this feeling there is a fundamental compatibility just in terms ofnot policy, but personality and outlook, with national. New Zealand first has also got the view that their vote can grow a bit with national losing support in its fourth term. That might be what happens. Corin, this scenario of him going with national. It is a harder deal to negotiate in five days. Labour has to be talking to the greens as well as New Zealand first. I am confused about if it is leaning towards labour, New Zealand first coalition, that could take longer if you have to put greens the one side. Anything is possible. Bill English is going to play an important part in this. He has experienced. His team and his policies and creativity of the teams negotiating and what they can come up with and the solutions to the problems that Winston will present them. They will say he they can't do what he wants and they will try to work out ways. Anything is on the table. Spelling which could have an advantage. He knows where everything is in government. He might be able to be more flexible. Tell me about this deadline. This visual votes were set in stone will stop why Thursday? I don't know. Anything less than a full coalition may be in his mind. He was worried about the criticism he received in 1996, because the negotiations were not for about seven weeks. People became more frustrated and upset. In the end his party was punished by the voters. That may be it. He can get an extension. Labour and national will take the hit. They will say if they need to, we couldn't do the deal. We need a few more days. It is a stretch. I heard that idea today we should have rules about these things. I love the idea that there should be coalition negotiation rules. I am fascinated as to how it will work on Thursday. Does he hold a press conference on his own or with the party he has chosen? There is markets. What about the Richard Preble's suggestion that Bill English and Jacinda are doing should have been talking to each other? Is not a silly idea. It would take away leveraging power he has. They need to find common ground. Stephen Joyce and Grant Robertson both said they won't move on the issue of bringing in the Singaporean model on the reserve Bank. Maybe there are unwritten once there. It would be interesting if we had a more formalised way. It might ease the anxiety amongst the public. Women in parliament has changed. It struck me today when we saw these two women being interviewed. We were promised under MMP we would have a more representative parliament, and we have. Women have been marooned at 30% for several elections now. It has increased to 39%. It is not parity. They are not equal to men, but progress is being made. This can only pin seen as a good thing. All the parties deserve congratulations for this result. What an exciting week we have ahead! MARAE IS NEXT. REMEMBER ` Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS, AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS ` THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY MORNING AT 9. CAPTIONS BY SHRUTIKA GUNANAYAGAM AND FAITH HAMBLYN. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR.