and there's been huge lost opportunities. Kei nga pou tokomanawa, kei nga pou tahu o te whare korero o Te Hui. Tena koutou katoa. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e mihi atu nei, nau mai, tahuti mai ra. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. Coming up this morning ` He went from appearing in Vogue magazine to appearing court. Fashion designer Kharl Wirepa's reputation is now in tatters, convicted of $12,000 worth of benefit fraud. That's all I really was doing, doing anything it took to survive. But should he have been able to sidestep a conviction, like so many of our sports stars? And ` the wait is finally over. In the end, we chose a coalition government of NZ First with the NZ Labour Party. We look at the new coalition government and what it means for Maori. Karahuihui mai. Welfare fraud became a hot button issue this election, after former Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei revealed she'd misled WINZ while studying as a solo mum. It was an admission that ultimately cost her her job, and she's not alone. Rotorua fashion designer Kharl Wirepa lost his role as a brand ambassador after being convicted for overpayments of his student allowance. It's a mistake that could leave his glittering career in tatters. Kei a Ruwani Perera te roanga ake o nga korero. The fickle world of fashion. It's been a soap opera. One day you're in,... I was the first Polynesian designer, not just Maori, to ever feature in Vogue. ....and the next, you're in court. One week, I'm having champagne at New Zealand Fashion Week with all the top designers in the country, and lights, camera, action, and then the next minute, we're in front of the camera in the court. Fashion designer Kharl Wirepa's reputation is now in tatters after recently being convicted of $12,000 worth of benefit fraud. White people get away with crimes. Brown people do time. This has had detrimental effects on my life. You can spot a Kharl Wirepa creation from his signature slinky, sequinned designs. Yes, I'm definitely about evening wear. That's my style and chic forever fashion. that's for my personal style, but as a designer, I'm definitely an evening gown designer. Not just evening gown. but special occasion events. Drawn to fashion after working in retail clothing, Kharl fine-tuned his sense of style at the former Waiariki Polytechnic in Rotorua, where he studied a two-year design course. And you learned how to formally sew there, as well? Formally trained in sewing and pattern-making and fashion business and everything to do around the fashion design industry He learned fast, going to the top of his class, winning the Supreme Award at the Miromoda Indigenous Maori Fashion Awards in 2014. His prize was getting to showcase his glitzy garments at his very own show at New Zealand Fashion Week that same year. Kharl was just 22. That's very unheard of for a fashion student to go to such great heights so early in their first year of studying. It was during this time that Kharl misled Work and Income about where he was living. Well, the student allowance is` back then, is was $165 dollars. And to make a dress in fashion school can cost about $50, plus living expenses, so everyone in the class and every student around New Zealand has financial problems. It's just the struggles that people have to go to to get an education. And in order to make it, Kharl says he topped up his student allowance by around $80 a week, making out to Work and Income that he was flatting. Instead, Kharl was living at home with his mum and Dad in Rotorua. His parents didn't know their only son was claiming the extra money. Oh, no. I had no idea. None at all. Alistair speaking. Welfare beneficiary advocate Alastair Russell believes that Kharl's situation is one many students face, struggling with the increasing cost of living. That's absolutely believable and absolutely common. The student allowances, just like every other benefit is inadequate to live on. There is an on-going incentive for people to not be completely honest with Work and Income to survive. Kharl believes that it was a former friend and fellow design student who told Inland Revenue about misleading WINZ. I know what I did wasn't the right thing. I did lie in the application, because I wanted to be the best and I wanted to be able to get the best things to succeed in my career and in my studies. Kharl was determined to excel in his course, and he says getting the extra allowance was a necessary evil for him to realise his dreams. I've used that education to really reshape not just my community, but also I've used that education to change the entire image of our fashion industry, in particular for indigenous people. After graduating in 2015, Kharl launched his own clothing label. And then a few months ago, Kharl achieved something most designer's can only dream of ` profiled in the September issue of British Vogue, a magazine regarded by many as the last word in fashion. Vogue is all about the best, who is the best. Whoever is the best is in the Vogue in that moment. I can't believe it. It's still just sinking in. For him at a young age, I'm over the moon for him. He's got such a talent His dresses also appear in the British Vogue's October and upcoming November titles too. Not a bad achievement for a kid born and raised in Manurewa, South Auckland. I never expected it so early on in my career, but for me, it's not just about me being in Vogue, but it's about me being the first Maori to be in Vogue, so it's an exciting thing for our people, and it's a historical moment. But the bubbles had barely stopped fizzing after his Vogue debut when Kharl made his first court appearance last month, pleading guilty to 14 charges of benefit fraud. JUDGE: If there is no further offending ` and I sincerely hope there is not, Mr Wirepa. One week, I'm having champagne at New Zealand Fashion Week, with all the top designers in the country, and lights, camera action, and then the next minute, we're in front of the camera in the court. JUDGE: Stand down, thank you. He was convicted of almost $12,000 worth of overpayments for the extra student allowances he received over a two-year period. That works out to less than $80 a week. How much damage can this do to your reputation? I had a brief moment where I thought it could be all over, and I could use this bad press as something, 'I'm destroyed. I'm over. Everyone hates me,' but I could look at it as, 'I'm double-famous now.' While Kharl remains upbeat, the consequences are all too real. Not only does Kharl now have a criminal record, but his conviction might mean he can't travel overseas, leaving his invitation to show at Paris Fashion Week next year up in the air. I think it's made it a lot harder for him to be the potential success that he could be. This is a guy who probably has the potential to be the next Karen Walker, and because he has been on a benefit and probably because he's brown ` Maori, as well ` he's in this situation Kharl's father Rod Wirepa knows his son has the ability to rebuild his business so he can pay back Work and Income, but says it's not going to be easy. To be honest, he's got no money. He lost his job over what happened. As soon as they found out about it ` gone. The job's gone. The judge was right in a lot of ways, but if she could have sent him to jail, she would have. It's well known that while those evading tax do so for large amounts of money, the Ministry of Social Development are more aggressive at pursuing beneficiaries like Kharl for much lower dollar values. Penalties for those convicted of benefit fraud are also more harshly punished than for white collar offenders. The Government's system around tax evasion is a clear double standard with what they do with people on benefits. White people get away with crimes; brown people do time, and have these things on record for life. But if you are brown, then it helps to be famous or sporty. Do you think that was part of the problem, that you weren't quite famous enough? If I was a rugby player, it would have been different. If I was an actor, it may have been different. If I was a cricket player, it would have been different Kharl's not wrong. There's plenty of examples in the news media of sport stars and celebrities who have plead guilty to violent crimes and been discharged without conviction because of the negative impact it could have on their careers. Kharl isn't as lucky, but knows he can count on the love and support of his whanau. We're a family, and we all love one another, so we're going to battle through this. He's fronting up to his fraud and wants other students to learn from his mistakes. I want to use this platform to inspire other young people to make the right decisions, because those decisions that you make at a young age can affect you in later life. One thing I must say, it's been lots of highs and lots of lows, but none of it's been boring, and that's the one thing I would hate to have is a boring life. And being boring is something Kharl Wirepa could never be found guilty of. Na Ruwani Perera tera purongo. Kei tua o nga whakatairanga, we talk to the new minister outside of cabinet. Willie Jackson joins me next. Hoki mai ano. Well, Maori voters proved to be crucial to Labour's success this election, its Maori caucus winning all seven Maori seats, two general seats and four list MPs. Yesterday, it was announced that Kelvin Davis and Nanaia Mahuta will have ministerial posts inside cabinet, and Meka Whaitiri, Peeni Henare and Willie Jackson will be ministers outside. So, is that a fair deal? And, what can Maori voters expect in return for their support? Here to discuss, I'm joined by Labour MP Willie Jackson, soon to be minister outside of cabinet. Kia ora. Kia ora, Mihi. Tuatahi, ka mihi nui ki a koe. Kia ora. Very successful campaign. Seven seat. We haven't caught up since then. Yes. Now in government. You must be please. Proud. Proud for our people. I thought we had a great campaign. We've got some excellent candidates. One of the things that I tried to do with Gaylene Nepia, who was my 2IC through the campaign, was project a real team approach. And you would've seen that in the national ads and what we did in social media. I think that our campaign really did the business in that area, and then focusing on issues that are really close to Maori ` the housing area, the health area, the education area, and it resonated, and we did the grand slam, I suppose. Took the seven seats out, so we're very humbled. Seven seats, and you actually have 13 Maori inside of the Labour Party. That means the list strategy, which you condemned, worked. I said I'd eat my hat. (LAUGHS) (LAUGHS) Where's your hat now? Where's your hat, mate? Which you condemned, and number of` I questioned, I questioned. And it actually worked a treat, didn't it? That's right, 13 MPs, but did it? Cos you've got two ministers inside cabinet. For all of those numbers, you've only got two. Is that enough? You always seem to find some negativity within the Maori Labour caucus, don't you? We've got five minsters, Mihi, and we've never had five Labour Party ministers before. We've got two very senior ones in Kelvin and Nanaia in cabinet, and three of us are lucky enough to be outside cabinet. I'm wrapped with that. That's the thing. Kei waho koutou i te whare, and kei roto raua i te whare. Two in and three out. That's not the same. No, it's not the same, but it can be very very effective, as we've known through the years, if you look at Te Ururoa Flavell, for instance. The Maori Affairs portfolio was outside. Winston Peters was outside cabinet. There are a number of examples of people who have been outside cabinet who can have effect, and we're all ministers. And to be fair to them, that was their choice. I'm not sure it was Peeni and` Well, I can assure it was my choice. I'm very happy. Ka pai. Let's talk about what will get out of this deal. What will be some of the`? We talked about state inquiry abuse` the independent inquiry into state abuse, homelessness, you campaigned on all those things. Yeah, that's right. What are going to be the first things on your agenda? As a caucus, we've just come together. We had our first Maori caucus during the week. And what we do know, Mihi, is we lead the way in all the worst statistics. Everything. Housing, health, education. You name it, we're at probably the worst time in our history. What we're doing right now is putting our plan and strategy together. It might be something like closing the gaps. Something along those lines. Surely, we're going to be able to turn things around in terms of employment, health, education. We're going to put together a comprehensive plan to address all those issues and then present to our wider party, to Jacinda. Myself and Meka Whaitiri have taken over the caucus chair roles, and this strategy is really important. What do we wanna do? Turn things around. OK. Whanau Ora was one of those initiatives, and you were the CEO there. Will Whanau Ora still be part of your agenda, and will there be a minister for Whanau Ora? Whanau Ora, as signalled during the campaign, is a huge part of what we do. We released our Whanau` So yes, you're going to carry on with that? Absolutely we're going to carry on with that. We released our Whanau Ora policy about a week or so before the election. That's not under a dispute. Will there be a minister? That's still to be worked through. We're working that through right now It's an important kaupapa for our people, and we've seen change right across the country with it. I just want to ask you about some of those Maori Party gains that they got. The Maori Land Service, what's going to happen there? Because there are some wheels in action there. Yeah, I would dispute that there were. I don't think there were a lot of gains at all by the Maori Party. I think there was a lot of smoke and mirrors, but in terms of what was the Maori Party good for? Well, there was going to be some reform to land. The bill didn't go through for land, but they had started the wheels in motion for the land service. Is that something you'll support, or will you just get rid of it? No, it's something that we're working through. Meka Whaitiri did a heck of a lot of work on that. But as I said, let's not overrate what they did, because if they did so much, they wouldn't have been thrown out. They hate it. Maori hated that bill, and Meka joined them. Are you going to work with that now? Is that what you're saying, she's not going to throw it out like she said? It's more than likely to go the way that Meka has said, all right? And it's one of the reasons that Meka got so much support. Te Matawai? Te Matawai is an effective entity. Is it? Cos some of the criticisms is that there's a lot of hui, no doey. Well, I was part of the hui, actually. (LAUGHS) You weren't doing much doing! And no, there's some excellent people on Te Matawai. These are people who've devoted themselves` So you like that idea of having a super-board that's in charge of broadcasting, Maori TV, things like that? I think we can have a look at that. I think with Matawai, we've got to look at the strategy, cos I wasn't happy with some of the progress. OK. Give me one result. One achievement in one year of Matawai. Well, they've put a strategy together, you know. And there's some good people on there. One result for the reo. No, there's still a way to go with the reo. They've been forming and shaping things. I think they have to be a lot more bolder. I made that clear when I was on there, and I will be making it clear of the next few years. Foreshore, seabed, you know, the Maori Party campaigned on that, then they repealed it with the Coastal Marine Act. Jacinda said she wouldn't have done it. Will you turn it around? I think that this waffle about foreshore and seabed is exactly that. I think most of our people don't care. That's why they voted against the Maori Party. They care about housing, health and education. What's done is done. What's gone is gone. We will never ever do that foreshore and seabed stuff again, but stop overrating it like the Maori Party did. Can you give us an idea of how long it will take to start addressing some of this poverty, homelessness in Auckland and in the city centres? We want it address within the first hundred days. You can't talk about a strong economy when people ` as Jacinda keeps saying ` are living in cars. This vibrant economy can't be so great when I walk around Mangere Bridge` Charter schools, will they stay? and there's people homeless. We're working through that. One or two people have got a conflict of interest there, but I'm sure we'll be able to work it through. Will you just change the name? The reality is that we've made it clear that we don't support big business coming into schools. Absolutely support what Chris Hipkins has been saying, in terms of a special character school. I think that can work, as long as our kids are being looked after. Kia ora. Look forward to seeing those portfolios in the next few days. Yes. Yes. Be proud, Mihi. Be proud. Five ministers. Very good. Kia ora. Ka pai. (LAUGHS) Noho tonu mai raa e te iwi, inangeto nei ko te paepae torangapu. Our political pundits join us next. Kei te matakitaki koutou i a Te Hui. Here now to discuss our new governance arrangements, I'm joined by former New Zealand First MP Tuariki Delamere, former Maori Television political editor, Seven Sharp's Maiki Sherman and commentator Shane Te Pou. Tena koutou. ALL: Kia ora. So, just give me your thoughts about the new coalition. I'm wrapped. I'm worked with and supported candidates from NZ First and Labour, and I thought it was the only way to go. It was very tight. I don't think Winston was playing a game at a quarter to 6 when he said a decision wasn't made, but I think they had a choice. They had a choice of supporting a tired fourth-term government or real change, and that's what we've got. I'm very excited about it. Did you pick it, Maiki? Actually, I did. I did pick it. But it was pretty close, and I only picked it pretty much similar to Winston, pretty much at the last minute. I was standing around with three other journos, and we said, 'OK, let's just call it on three. '1, 2, 3 ` Labour!' I was the only one who said Labour. That was rather interesting. Yeah, interesting because you were with three other journos who have been around it. Yeah. Absolutely, and there was that sort of surprise, I guess, in Parliament on the day ` cos I was there ` just awaiting the announcement. Obviously, everyone's just trying to digest now what that means. Jacinda Ardern said that she didn't know until the moment that he said it on television. You've been in with Winston before. No leaks. No one really knew. Were you surprised that it was such a slick operation? Winston's had a lot of practise at it, and he wants to keep them right in suspense to the end, just in case something comes up even right at the end, but I'm sure Jacinda suspected she had won the prize. And to me there was no surprise. A week after the Metiria episode, this to me was the likely outcome. Yeah, I saw a video of you on YouTube. You predicted this, didn't you? Yeah. I've got it all! (LAUGHS) How do you think you knew so much? Well, Winston wants to leave a legacy. Mm. And you're not going to leave a legacy fi he goes with the Nats. They don't like him. They don't respect him. All right. Jacinda has come through. She offers a great deal of respect, I believe, to Winston, and the Maori MPs, while they may disagree with Winston ` and I'm sure most of them do at times ` they respect him. He's a kaumatua. He's been there. Can we have a look at those ministerial posts that have been divvied out amongst those parties and to Labour. Do you think Maori will be happy with just two Maori MPs inside cabinet? I think that they'll be disappointed, but I think that Labour will be pushing hard to reiterate that there are actually eight brown MPs in that cabinet, whether inside or out, four of them Maori, and obviously that's a strong achievement. In terms of who's going to get what, that's going to be really interesting. My predictions at the moment, I'd Nanaia Mahuta, minister of Maori development. And Willie Jackson, who we just saw, associate minister of Maori development. And what are your thoughts around those other ministerial portfolios? We don't know who's going to get what yet, but we know there's Peeni, there's Meka and there's Kelvin in there. I think that the two most powerful roles in the next cabinet, in terms of Maori, will be for Winston and Shane Jones in some sort of economic portfolio. You know, I don't think that the fine Maori policy and programs actually are the real change agents. I think it's the macro stuff, building more homes, perhaps, what I've heard a dental care roll-out. I think that's the stuff that really counts, and you gotta say the Maori Party did well in the micro issues, but they missed out on the macro issues, and I think Labour Maori will learn that lesson. The other thing is that you're going to have a team of about 90 support. That generates a hell of a lot of heat and a hell of a lot of policy development, so I'm very excited about it too. If Shane is right there, talking about those macro issues, do you think there will be any Maori that are in and around MSD and those really important portfolios? I'm sure there will be. It looks like half the executive council is going to be brown. 36%-odd for Maori and 14% Pacific Island. It's amazing. How will it work, Tuariki? We've got NZ First ministers here, and you've got Labour ones here, and you've got the Greens over here. How do you see it working? I think they'll work collegially. When I was there as a minister, I didn't say, 'Oh, God, you're a bloody Nat and NZ First.' We were just working for what we thought was best for the country. And I'm sure they will do the same. I'm really thinking at the moment that probably that it would be good to Winston Peters take on that Deputy Prime Ministership role, only because there is obviously concern to the working relationship and how well it will be. I think if he did take that Deputy Prime Ministership role, it would mean that he is more invested. It would be sort of like a marriage, and a blended family, if you like. And so, if the kids start getting hoha, Dad can't take them into the van and take off. You have to work at it when things get tough, and so I think if he took that role, if would put that onus on him, that obligation to work hard at making it work. Do you see him as a mentor for her? Yeah, but I wouldn't call it a marriage. (LAUGHS) That conjures up visions of granddad marrying the granddaughter. (LAUGHS) You said 'blended!' But yes, he should, and I think it would be very good. Winton's been there, what, 40 years? And Jacinda will have someone to fall back on, and Winston will be working 24/7 to make sure it works. And what are your thoughts? What do you think will be the issues that they start hitting straight up? I think it will be the issues of homelessness, the ones that really dig in deep in Maoridom. Economic developments. You know, the port moved to Whangarei? 7500 jobs. That's a massive change, and rings real relief in terms of job opportunities in a very highly Maori density population, so I think it's going to be that type of stuff, and they're going to get moving and moving quickly. Three years is not long. Yeah, but I guess that points to the regional development. The north is going to do well out of this deal. Well, let's hope so, and let's hope that the five Te Tai Tokerau-based MPs or whakapapa MPs can actually nut out a Treaty settlement. It's been going on too long, and there's been huge lost opportunities. There is momentum, and they should take advantage of it, and I think they will have to. As I say, three years long. You've got one and half years, and you're on a political cycle. Yeah, that'll be interesting, and I think if we're looking at ministerial roles, then we think about Kelvin Davis, who's the deputy leader of the Labour Party, what will he get? Perhaps Treaty negotiations. But what we do know is that he's been quite vocal and quite critical of the Nga Puhi settlement. In particular, of those in charge of it, Tuhoronuku. So whether or not he'll be able to work cohesively with them, whether we'll see Tuhoronuku dissolve and be pushed out of the way, that will be interesting. There are actually MPs in there that are te kotahitanga, when you look at it and you put them all from where they're from. Absolutely, so they'll have to tread very carefully around that Treaty negotiations. I don't wanna leave anyone out, but I want to come to Maiki and ask her this question ` the Maori Party for months said that Labour was throwing Maori under the bus. When you look at what they've got now, do you think that they'll have to eat humble pie? I think they will have to eat a bit of humble pie, yes I do. I think they've delivered not only in terms of Maori MPs who are going to be in cabinet, but also our Pacific MPs, Jenny Salsa, Su'a William Sio, Carmel Sepuloni. I mean, that's huge encouragement. Six Pasifika MPs, two inside, two outside of cabinet. That's a success for the Pacific communities. And it's something that we've really never seen before around the cabinet table, to be honest. How do you think the Maori MPs in National will go as opposition MPs? They won't. You won't hear of them. I think the country right now wants to see something on housing, something on immigration. They're the two big platforms out there, and they're a lot easier to address. Homelessness, they want to do it, but that's a longer-term thing. Will Winston Peters take the DP? I hope he does. I hope he does. I think he'll be the chairperson of the cabinet. I think it will be a new role, not in name but in kind. Tena koutou. Kua pau te wa ki a tatou. Thanks for coming in this morning. Thanks for joining us today, hui hoppers. We'll post links to the show on our Facebook page and on Twitter @thehuiNZ, and you'll find all our stories on the Newshub website. Kua hikina Te Hui mo tenei ra. The Nation's next. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by Tom Pedlar. www.able.co.nz Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2017