It's often thought that stomach-stapling surgery is the easy way out of obesity. But those who've had the surgery know that's not the case. Many are too whakama to admit they've had it, but one wahine, Charmaine Ngarimu, wants all that to change. She wants more Maori to consider going under the knife. Kei a Rewa Harriman te roanga ake o te korero. (INDISTINCT CHATTER) She looks like any other runner here. But for Charmaine Ngarimu, just making it to the start line of the Auckland Marathon has been a test of endurance. Three years ago this pint-sized events manager was literally twice her size. And today she's about to conquer a major milestone ` running further than she's every run before. For some people, they might go, 'It's only 12.' For me, that's quite a big deal. In 2014, Charmaine weighed 107kg and wore a size 22 dress. In a former life, she'd been a fitness freak, a body builder. But crippling endometriosis left her unable to exercise and piling on the pounds. The way I described it was being stuck in fat jail. I'd got to the point where I was over a 100kg. And I'm only 5'2 ` or, if you do metrics, 158cm tall. So that's just far too much. And it's technically classed as morbidly obese, and I don't think anyone ever wants to hear those words. Charmaine had tried all the diets. She lost weight on some but eventually regained it all back and more. After months of research, Charmaine made the life-changing decision to undergo stomach staple surgery. The hardest step for me first was ringing up and making the appointment because it felt to me like that there was failure... by having to ring up and make an appointment about a surgery. Six months after her first consultation, Charmaine went under the knife. In May 2014, she got her surgery ` a procedure that literally changed her from the inside out. I wanted to change my life. I wanted to get out of that situation. I wanted to lose the weight. Now it's like that. It looks like a different dress altogether. Yeah. It's not a cheap option, so you've got to be really sure about it. Cos, for me, I wasn't entitled to the free public one because I wasn't at risk of diabetes and I didn't have sleep apnoea. I'm sure if I'd have gone on much longer, I'd have probably developed those things, but I wasn't prepared to wait for that because why would you? So, this... was my favourite flash-as suit. She took out a loan to cover the $17,000 operation, and it's been worth every cent. I look like I'm wearing someone else's clothes cos I am. Yeah. How much weight did you lose? I lost half my body weight. So, at my heaviest, I was about 106kg, 107kg. And then I went down to 53. But I'm more around 57 these days. Her surgeon, Dr Richard Babor, says Charmaine is a walking billboard for the benefits of surgery. Charmaine's done extraordinary well. She's a real star. I mean, she's got a lot of advantages ` she's an educated, health-literate person who has kinda fully embraced the new lifestyle and has made a success of it. I think there are patients who do struggle with it. People who are less educated, from a low socioeconomic stratum and with less resources do sometimes not go as well. More than 1000 bariatric operations are done in New Zealand every year. About 400 of those are in the public system, and the rest, like Charmaine's, are done privately. Dr Barbor says it's far from being the easy option. For most, it's the only option left. We perpetuate this myth that everybody can fix themselves with diet and exercise, but they can't. We know that for a fact, right. So those people who choose this way are actually responding rationally to the problem that they're having. They're saying, 'I've tried dieting,' and many of them have and lost weight a number of times ` like, significant, 10, 20, 25, 30 kilos a number of times ` only regain it because they can't maintain that weight loss in the environment that we live. A whopping 47% of Maori adults are classed as obese. And if you're poor, you're almost twice as likely to be. Charmaine believes culture is also a factor in the struggle to stay slim. Particularly in Maori communities, we've often normalised this idea of manaakitanga being about massive amounts of kai, and I don't know where that came from, cos that never used to happen, but it seems to be very normal now. And then when I'm having my little plate, people are saying to me things like, 'Look at you. We need to feed you up. You're so small now.' And it's like, these words have to stop, and we've got to stop doing that because we've got a massive problem with fatness, and it's not fatness with a 'ph'; it's fatness with an 'f'. You know, and it is hard for them to understand that I don't need any more food than that, and, to be fair, I don't think most people do. Charmaine still loves to cook, but three years on from surgery, her portion sizes are more like a small child than an adult. Right. Wow. There is... It looks beautiful. ...our portion sizes. That is unbelievable. That's, like, probably a quarter of what you've served up for me. And I might not get through it. I'm not sure. But that would be around the size that you normally would? Yep, yep. Yep. Oh, well. Shall we dig in? Absolutely. Before her surgery, Charmaine used to turn to kai for comfort. But nowadays you'll find her indulging in kakahu. Buying her new wardrobe really has been retail therapy. I went to try on something in Dress Smart because I love a good bargain; that hasn't changed. And I tried it on, and I'm like, 'Oh, that's still too big.' It was a 12, which was a new era for me cos it didn't start with a two. And I ended up buying an 8. And my mum was there, and I'm like, 'Mum, Mum, you need to see this. This dress is an 8.' And that was my new life. And I realised at that point that I was no longer this big, fat person. Charmaine wants to remove that stigma around weight loss surgeries where people are whakama or embarrassed to talk about it. I do know other people who've made the decision not to talk about that they've had it, and that's totally up to them. But how are we gonna destigmatise this idea that surgical procedures are OK to treat an obesity condition, just as a surgical procedure's OK to treat a bad knee or, you know, something like that? If we can get better control of diabetes and bariatric surgery is the best way of doing that ` and it's probably the most effective way of doing it ` then we can prevent people needing laser treatment for their eye problems, prevent people having heart attacks and strokes, getting progressive kidney failure, which can sometimes end up in dialysis. So that has tremendous positive implications for people's long-term health and quality of life, and it also has positive effects in terms of saving us money in the healthcare system. (UPBEAT MUSIC) Charmaine isn't just relying on her surgery; as well as changing her eating habits, she's also exercising regular with her personal trainer, albeit reluctantly. It's running and all these different things which were not my idea of a good time. But I wanted to be stronger and fitter, so I made that decision, because it's all about being a better version of me, I guess, and making those choices. It's gotta be the food and the fitness, cause they've gotta go hand in hand Three years ago, the only running Charmaine was doing was to the fridge. Today she's going to push her new body to its limits, running the 12km traverse event at the Auckland Marathon. I've always got to have goals. That's really important to me ` is having goals to work towards now because otherwise I could end up back in that situation, as anyone could. So... Are you fearful that you will? Always. Chocolate's my thing. I love it. And I always think to myself, you know, there could easily be a slippery slide. And I think it's really important when you do something like this that you are always working at it now. You work at your health like you would anything else. If you want to be educated or if you want to get ahead in life in something, you've got to keep working at that thing. It's never gonna be a solution. It's gotta be a journey. A journey that's given Charmaine her life back. I was thinking about it from 11k to 12k. You just got to get off the couch. And that's the thing ` cos if you don't start, you can't finish. And even this morning before I came out, I was going, if it was raining, I might not come out. And I was doing that stuff in my head, but a friend of mine once said, 'By the time you've done that procrastination, you'll be finished.' Cos if I hadn't got off the couch three years ago, I wouldn't have done 1k, let alone 12k. Na Rewa Harriman tera purongo. A ko ake nei, ko te minita i nga take whakahiato ora hou, ko Carmel Sepuloni tera ka matapaki i nga wero nui kei mua i a ia. I'd got to the point where I was over 100kg. So that's far too much. Auraki mai ano. Well, in 2013, the National government overhauled the welfare system, creating three types of benefit ` the Job Seeker, the Sole Parent and the Supported Living Payment. Its aim was to get beneficiaries 'work-ready'. But in the two years following the reform, thousands of children have been affected by benefit cuts when their parents failed to meet the work obligations set out by WINZ. 43,000 sanctions were issued against beneficiaries with children between 2013 and 2015, with some cuts as much as half. So, will we see changes under the new Labour-led government? Let's ask the new Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. Tena koe. Kia ora. Congratulations. Thank you. So, 47,000 beneficiaries with children had benefit cuts during that period ` 2013 to 2015. Are you comfortable with these sanctions? No, I'm not comfortable at all. And it's definitely something that we, as a government, are intending to look at. So, how soon? Very soon. We already had made a number of amendments ` or put them forward ` to the Social Security Act rewrite. And one of those amendments was to ensure basically that a child impact lens was put over anything else that was rolled out through the Social Security Act. I think that's a really important starting point because that enables us to take that lens and analyse whether or not policies through MSD are having a negative impact on children. And if they are, then we genuinely need to reassess whether or not they should be there. But you've got all the data there. 2013 were the reforms. You should already know what's affecting people. There's 42,000 sanctions there in just two years. What would you like to repeal or remove or reverse? We've already said that we will be looking to repeal section 70A, where parents are penalised if they don't name the other parent of the child because we know that, really, that's just had an impact on the woman and her children, Yeah. That's about $24 per child each week. That's right. So when will that happen? We've just started, Mihi, so we need a little bit of time. Before Christmas, though? I don't want to do this in an ad-hoc way. So, before Christmas, our focus is the 100-day plan that Labour has in place, which is our families package, which is our tertiary changes, so all of those things have to be our primary focus. We can't do everything at once. I really wish we could. But even with what we've proposed in terms of our 100-day plan, I think lots of people out there would think, 'Actually, Labour, Greens, New Zealand First, 'you're being very ambitious,' and we are. But there's a lot of other things that of course I want to do that I wish we could squeeze into the first 100 days as well, but it's just not going to be possible. OK. So first year? What I'm talking to my MSD officials at this stage about is sequencing and how we do things in a way that makes sense, so it's not ad-hoc. I think, down the track, what we'll be looking at is a bit of a parallel process. There are some major changes that we want to make to the legislation and the way in which things are rolled out, but I don't want that to paralyse us from getting things done in the short- to mid-term. So I can't give you all the answers right now, but I can let you know that the MSD officials are very busy behind the scenes, pulling together briefings and options and a raft of other things so that we can make these things happen. In the past year, the special needs grant rose by 25%, and most of those were for food grants. So what we know about that is that it's children who aren't getting kai on their tepu. So they're going to want to know when those kinds of things are going to change for them. That's right. Do beneficiaries get paid enough? Look, there's a whole range of ways we can do that, and so our families package has been developed in a way that we can help lift children out of policy. So Best Start ` an additional $60 a week ` the Winter Energy Payment. Then there's our tertiary stuff in terms of putting more money into the pockets of students. That includes students with children. So there's a range of ways that we can try and lift people out of poverty. And we're committed to doing that. In terms of benefits, that's something for us to look at down the track. The Greens, they say about a 20% increase would probably right it. Would you agree? I'm not going to make commitments to the changes that we're going to make. I'm not asking for a commitment. I'm just asking would 20% be about right? Not sure, Mihi. I think, you know, it could be 20%. It could be more. It could be slightly less. But I'm not going to make a commitment at this stage to what we're going to do with benefit levels. So every year, tax evaders... There's about $1.2 billion worth of tax that's not paid, and that's in comparison to benefit fraud of about $40 million. Are you comfortable with WINZ's focus at the moment on investigating fraud in WINZ? What I want to see is just more clarity from the get-go. I want to put more effort into ensuring that people get access to what they're entitled to because we know that that isn't happening to the extent that it should. We know that 40% of families living in poverty are actually working families, and a whole lot of them aren't accessing things like child care subsidies, accommodation supplements, and a whole lot of other things. And so I want to make sure from the get-go that we are giving people the right advice in terms of what they are entitled to. And I think that's a really important starting point that we haven't seen enough of. And that's great. So you've recognised that. Are you looking at refocusing that task force group that investigates fraud and putting them into, you know, working with families to give them what they deserve? At this stage, the discussion with my MSD officials hasn't been about the fraud side; it's about ensuring that people that are on benefits are actually getting access to what they're entitled to. And so that's the starting point for me, having been in the job for I think, what, a week and a half ` is actually looking at what families could potentially be missing out on. In terms of the fraud side of things, we haven't even got there yet because the other side is so massive. But you know that families are missing out on benefits. Yup. You've worked with these families before. So how are you going to make some change, and when will families know that there's going to be change for them? So, there's a lot of discussions taking place. Another proposal that I had that we'll be looking at doing in terms of changing the principles of the Social Security Act is not only having that child impact lens, but also putting in the principles that people must get access to what they're entitled to, putting into the principles` Is there a timeframe for that ` the principles? The principles? Yes. That's something I'd like to do early on. So in terms of sequencing, that would be one of the earlier things. So, we've had a Social Security Act rewrite go through under National; we have to look at that again because it wasn't as policy-neutral as it should have been. But one of the first things I think we need to do is actually change the principles. When you're talking about the sequencing, what is that duration? What is that timeframe? It's not going to be an easy task, Mihi, but that's why I've got the officials working on the order in which we should do things, what we can do quickly. When do you expect the officials to come back to you, so then you can come back to us? Oh, they come back to me every week. Every day. Are we talking six months? Are we talking one year? I don't want to commit to timeframes, Mihi. I just want people to know that we are committed to making the changes. And I take this really seriously. Our government has committed to addressing the issue of child poverty. And we can't address the issues of child poverty if we don't address some of the things that need to be addressed through the welfare system and the Social Security Act. And so I'm working on that side of things. As I said before, our primary focus at the moment is the 100-day plan and trying to get that through. But there are other things that we will do in the next budget, and then there are bigger changes that need to happen over the next year or two years. I just want to ask you about this week you gave your oath in te reo Maori. How was that for you? Yeah, it was... I mean, the reason I do it is obviously out of respect for tangata whenua but also because it's my way of kind of acknowledging where I grew up. And lots of people out there know that I was born and raised in Waitara. And so Maori, te reo Maori, all things Maori had a big impact on me in my early years of life. And so, you know, that's an opportunity for me to be able to demonstrate that, I guess. Tena koe. Thank you for coming in this morning. Kia ora. Kia ora. Noho tonu mai ra e kare ma, hei muri i nga whakatairanga ka korero ahau ki te kaiarahi takirua o te Pati Maori, ki a Marama Fox. I'd got to the point where I was over 100kg. So that's far too much. Ko te Hui tenei, te whakapaoho atu nei. The Maori Party were literally left in tears following a disastrous election result that saw them pushed right out of parliament. Well, last week the party met to figure out what went wrong and how to get back to the Beehive. No nanahi ra i korero ahau ki te kaiarahi takirua o te Pati Maori, ki a Marama Fox. So, you've come together, had a hui taumata, had a number of Maori Party faithfuls come back. What have you decided to do? I think for the moment there needs to be some continuity. We've taken on-board the criticisms that have come from whanau and also the advice. There is an AGM planned for early in the year. Until we get to that point, we remain in place. At that point, if the whanau want to change anybody, they're quite within their rights to do that. There had been a call to renew the party. Yet you're still the co-leader, and Te Ururoa is still the co-leader. Is there no options? Do you want to go through to the next election? No, no, no. I think that we are holding those positions until such time as a strategy ` a clear strategy ` is in place. At that point, if we decide to stay or the whanau reaffirm us as co-leaders, then that decision will be made, as well as along with the rest of the executive of the Maori Party. So you're willing to step aside if someone else is voted in? Yeah, absolutely. And you'll still be part of the Maori Party? Well, everything I'm doing right now in creating a business for our whanau to live in affordable homes will also be benefiting the Maori Party. I want to use the knowledge that our people have gained in this process and benefit our people in the community without the hamstrings of politics. What do you think the new Maori Party's vision will be? Definitely we need to be looking at our rangatahi. If 23 years old is the average age of our Maori people, then half of them are not even up to vote yet. So focus on them, grow political literacy, make sure that we are providing the pathways that will see them take over as the economic base of this nation. Maori are very interested in the opportunity of Dr Lance O'Sullivan. Did he give you a commitment? Lance has already indicated that he would like to stand for the party. And it would be up to him` As a leader? Well, I mean, everybody's been tossing that conversation around. I think there are a number of candidates who could be the leader, including Shane Taurima, who is an excellent performer. But it will be up to the membership of the Maori Party to make those decisions in due course. Should the new leaders be younger? You talk about 23 being the average age. I definitely think we need to be bringing through and shoulder-tapping our rising generation. They are phenomenal. And they have a base firmly entrenched in kaupapa Maori; they understand their whakapapa, they understand their language, and they understand the world that they live in. And they are taking it by storm in every realm and sphere of this nation right now. And so absolutely I think we need to be bringing those young people forward. We mentioned in the intro that, quite literally, there were tears after the results of the Maori Party loss. It is about six weeks on, and you do feel different. Do you? Yeah, absolutely. I feel great. I just got back from Rarotonga, and that might have something to do with it, but it was about a reset. So, I mean, look, five stages of grief is one ` denial, when everyone's like, 'What the actual heck just happened?' And then number two is anger. Well, we all saw that play out all over the TV. And then number three is that just loss and that grief. But then, you know, you look forward to hope. And I'm there. I got there pretty quickly. (CHUCKLES) I'm about the future. I don't like doing dwelling. Do you regret some of things that you said? No, not at all. I mean, listen. I know that I was upset. The way in which I said it. There was one statement that a lot of people were offended by, and that was that Maori had gone back to the arms of the abuser. And when you think about the numbers of Maori women that are tied up in domestic violence,... And therefore a perfect analogy. ...you think that was a good statement? Well, therefore a perfect analogy. I mean, why, when we continue to be battered by a political system, including both the National and the Labour parties, for 150 years, do we continue to put faith in that process? Yes, now we have a number of Maori ministers, and that's fantastic, but if they're not going to stand up for charter schools where their own families works, where Willie Jackson has two of his own, and we're going to call it some other mechanism, and hopefully those kids' lives won't be disrupted, then what's the point? If we're not going to stand up for the things that we said we would, like TPP, Fletcher Tabuteau, who went to every debate with me over this, saying, 'This will never happen,' and now they're just rolling over, then what's the point? There were eight Maori members of parliament when Tariana alone crossed the floor. So when it comes down to it, I know they're going to do a great job. But if they're told what to do, when to do it, then they have no choice but to cross the floor. And if they don't, do they support Maori? So now you're in the benefit of the position that you get to demand and say what you want. So what is it that you do want from those Labour ministers now for Maori? I want them to keep their word. I want them not to be hypocritical now that they're in power, because when they said, 'We want to make te reo Maori compulsory,' that is the one thing that will change the thinking of not just Maori, but this entire nation. It is the birth right of every one of our children. If they don't have that, that has been stripped from them through legislation and through abuse in previous years of schooling over generations of time. And they said that they would make that compulsory, and now they are not. Are you keeping a tab on the 100-day promise? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Where is the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the institutional response of state abuse in any institution that was tasked with the responsibility of looking after our children? They should all come under scrutiny. We have highest rates of suicide, highest rates of abuse for children in the world, and we need to address it. And if we don't peel back the scab to do that` Jacinda Ardern promised those men that she would do it, and she is going back on her promise if she doesn't do anything at least as good as a Royal Commission. An independent inquiry is not enough. Patai pai tera. And that's something we'll be following up. Ko Marama Fox tera. Well, thanks for joining us today, Hui hoppers. We'll post links to the show on our Facebook page and on Twitter ` @TheHuiNZ. And you'll find all our stories on the Newshub website. Before we go, we'd like to acknowledge the passing of our associate producer's, Adrian Stevanon's, dad Willie. Ka nui te aroha ki a koe Age, koutou ko to Mama a Leata ko to tuahine a Astrid. Noreira kua hikina Te Hui mo tenei ra. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by Madison Batten. www.able.co.nz Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2017 ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui was made with funding from the New Zealand On Air Platinum Fund.