MORENA, GOOD MORNING, AND WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M GREG BOYED. TODAY ` SHANE JONES IS IN CHARGE OF A BILLION-DOLLAR-A YEAR DEVELOPMENT FUND FOR THE REGIONS. WHERE WILL THAT MONEY GO? AND WHAT DIFFERENCE WILL IT MAKE? POLITICAL EDITOR CORIN DANN WILL BE INTERVIEWING THE NEW REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT MINISTER THIS MORNING. THEN THE ISRAELI JOURNALIST WHO'S BEEN DESCRIBED AS THE MOST HATED MAN IN ISRAEL. GIDEON LEVY HAS SPENT DECADES COVERING THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND IS AN OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF HIS OWN GOVERNMENT. HIS VIEWS HAVE OUTRAGED MANY ISRAELIS. YET HE CALLS HIMSELF A PATRIOT. HE'LL EXPLAIN WHY TO CORIN ON TODAY'S PROGRAMME. THERESA GATTUNG IS BEHIND A NEW FUND THAT INVESTS ONLY IN WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS. THE FORMER TELECOM CEO IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT, PLUS HER TAKE ON HOW TO PROMOTE MORE WOMEN INTO LEADERSHIP ROLES. CAPTIONS BY VIRGINIA PHILP AND STARSHA SAMARASINGHE. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017 AND WE'LL HAVE ANALYSIS FROM OUR PANEL MARAMA FOX, MAORI PARTY CO-LEADER AND NOW DIRECTOR OF HER OWN CONSULTANCY. LEEANN WATSON, THE NEW CEO OF THE CANTERBURY EMPLOYERS' CHAMBER OF COMMERCE FROM HAMILTON, FORMER LABOUR MP SUE MORONEY. BUT FIRST, HERE'S CORIN. THANKS, GREG, AND GOOD MORNING TO SHANE JONES, REGIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MINISTER. What makes you think that you as an control of this billion dollar a year fund that you can pick businesses developments that are going to be successful and not the market? Why are you able to do this? You have correctly identified that this is a substantial change from the last several years. People should have confidence in the criteria. I will have an investment panel working with the bureaucracy advising me. They will be very senior people. Surely we have had a market-based economy for a number of years. The money will flow to where there is a profit. The reason you intervenors where there is a market failure. Because of the growth of capitalism, it has left these places neglected. The last government agreed to underwrite the development of the Opotiki wharf. I see that as a classic public good rationale for putting dough into that region. There will be a host of different projects. When we put money into roads and other public good features, not all of the benefits are captured by monetary value. We are trying to enable regions and to capture the positives. So they are a subsidy? No they won't be subsidies as such. People have seen me about Jvs. It is designed to deal in the provinces where there has been market failure. Give me some examples about how it will benefit a young Kiwi in the regions who was struggling to get a job. I think that is a bloody good question. If you take the 10 million that will update the connectivity up to Kaitaia. I will say something that really bothers me immensely. We have this category of young men and women who are not in employment or training. $60 million was allocated by Stephen Joyce, but not a brass razoo was spent. They will keep on disappearing consistently. By Christmas I am going to have announced at least four projects. Is it actually work for the dole? I don't want people to be on the unemployment benefit. I don't want to have to rely on Filipinos to plant my pine trees. They will have to receive a minimum wage but there will be no more sitting on a couch. How do you force them to do it? Wait and see until my announcement. I am not the Minister of social welfare but I am sick and tired of watching the need to work men and women sitting on the couch and I am not going to take it any longer. How are you going to get it through cabinet? It will be a mixture of charm and knowledge. Have you talk to your Labour colleagues about this? I have had a number of discussions. They are behind the kaupapa and the concepts. Let us be clear. You are going to push a work for the dole scheme through cabinet. I am going to take proposals through cabinet. I am not going to remain silent any longer while my younger nephews fall victim to the gangs. How would you fund a program? I would encourage the finance minister to begin spending the 60 million that Steven Joyce put aside. I want to get hung upabout where the money comes from. Is it going to be capital spending? It can get a return. Or will it be used for programs which are part of social welfare? There is no return apart from a long-term generational return. The fund is not fiscal hand-me-downs. It comprises of new spending at the margin where forestry is concerned and we would dip into the money that the small forest already has which is hidden in the MPI. People in the regions have trusted the party I belong to and myself to deliver for the regions. The Bible says some trusts in chariots and some trust in horses. It is going to have some new operational spending so that will have to go into the budget. Do you think there is room for that? I think we are getting on 14 December and update from Grant Robertson. The people in the regions should not tolerate one sliver of doubt. What if this fund means that the government cannot get to 20% of debt GDP within the five years? What if it was to blow out the government debt target? Grant Robertson has five years to achieve that target. A lot of this funding will be capital, over time it will generate benefits. You have confidence that Grant Robertson can make this work? Yeah, absolutely. I am one of the associate finance ministers and here and his team are acutely aware that NZ First is a champion of the regions. One of the areas that has cropped up as irrigation. I expected nonetheless from you, Corin about this interview. Existing contracts will be honoured. In areas in the Hawke's Bay, you are quite right about the things you have been hinting at. I am an advocate and I am going to push for localised water storage and localised water initiatives. Because I want to lift the productivity of the Maori owners. The projects you might fund might be different to the projects that your coalition agreement says won't be funded. Ruataniwha has been decapitated. The schemes that are referred to and have attention under the irrigation agency irrigation is OK if it is the right size. It has to be localised and fit for the environment. What about mining? I am getting all the curly ones. The government's is very clear about cessation of coal mines. In 2050, gas needs to play a key role. What about the exploration of carbon? No. That is a matter for the private sector. If you are asking me as a regional Minister, that is something that can go through the statutory process. The reason why am getting at this is because you have talked about being pro-industry. Does it put you in a difficult position with the Green party? How are you going to work with the Green party when they have a different view to you? We will start with common ground. Green party colleagues are enthusiastic about forestry. It is the best shot we have got about lessening the burden on society. I am not involved in any of the changes that might be coming up to the DOC Act. But despite my tendency for rhetoric from time to time, we are a coalition government and we strike issues where we have two wend our way is through the political Labyrinth. I have not spoken to them formally but it is fair to say our friends in the Green party are aware of the NZ First position. It is a challenge for iwi to come up with a pragmatic solution but in the absence of it, there will be no Kermadec saNctuary. Why are you going to war with the iwi leaders? They are in control of large resources and are important for development in the regions. The iwi leaders, their stature has grown to the Crown attention directed towards them. If you are genuinely wanting to advance the interests of your people, bring proposals forward to me on forestry. Bluster and belligerence about going to Supreme Court. That will not black mail me. We have to leave it there. That is for another interview. SEND US YOUR THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER @NZQ+A YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A AT TVNZ.CO.NZ OR TEXT YOUR THOUGHTS AND FIRST NAME TO 2211. KEEP THEM BRIEF ` EACH TEXT COSTS 50 CENTS. THE PANEL'S HERE, AFTER THE BREAK. Sue,what did you make of what he had to say about work for the dole? It was great to see that the market model has not worked for the regions and that was acknowledged. Everyone else downstream is wondering when help is arriving. It was quite a bolshie interview from Shane Jones. He was laying down his passion about getting things right in the regions. He set out a vision and the detail that is going to be needed to get those things in place, that is going to be an interesting space to watch. I agree with Sue. A lot of content there. It is going to be interesting about the allocation of funds. The projects will need to be economically viable and sustainable to create outcomes for the regions and those outcomes need to be regionally specific. We need to look at each region and its own right. Marama Fox, do you agree with what he said about the current model not working? The current model is not working. If you cannot connect people who areisolated back to the main trunk line, they do not have fiscal motivation to do anything. There have been a number of businesses who have tried to get up but it cost so much to get the product to market so it is not worth doing it. If we connect all of those regional areas back to the main trunk lines, we need to fix the infrastructure and the roads and we need to build rail. KiwiRail has to make a profit off the track on the line and if you don't, we are going to scrap these tracks. So he might as well scrap everything after Hamilton. But we don't say the same thing about the roads. This is Corin first that we need to have throughout the country so we can move forward. You have to worry where the money is coming from. The money is important but even more important as having the strategy right. If we look at our regions, what I want to see is that our regions are playing to their strengths. South of the Bombay Hills, your share of this billion-dollar pie ` what would be the first thing you want? Rotorua is going to have quite a lot of the forestry money going on. I am thrilled to hear that. Rotorua is somewhere I feel worried about and is struggling more than the other in our region. I have been advocating for quite some time. Those sorts of things do not cost a lot but they can make a real difference to the local economy and how the region is perceived. Talk about safety on our roads and those sorts of things. A small amount of money for a large amount of benefit. What about Canterbury? It is really important that we look at each individual region. It is about choosing projects that are going to return the best value for money for the whole community. That is about working collaboratively with the community. There are areas in the high-tech sector and arable land. We have invested heavily in irrigation and Canterbury. Marama Fox, he mentioned his relatives up north but they were not spoken of in glowing terms. It is not one size fits all. We have third generation unemployed young people who have no example of what working on a daily basis looks like. Going to work every day and if it rains or if something crops up, that is not going to work for New Zealand. We need to show an example of what working looks like on a daily basis to some of our young people who literally do not have that example in their lives. I do not have a problem with the work for the dole scheme. But it needs a better name. But get some good practical experience that leads to qualifications and brings people home to the regions. What do you think about that scheme? A scheme similar to that was used to build the Hamilton Gardens in the past. I think the devil is going to be in the detail about what are the barriers that exist in people's lives that prevent them to have the opportunity. There was an undercurrent of the Greens and NZ First diametrically opposed. I can see this heading for big trouble in 2018. Or it could be exactly what people wanted from MMP ` a government having to work hard to Gain a consensus. The fight he appears to be picking with iwi. He said he was not going to talk to anybody for the next seven years. That is going to be a bit difficult. Iwi chairs get a hard deal because they are doing amazing things with the settlements that they have. They want to increase economic benefit and growing jobs and if you ignore them completely, you ignore them at your own peril because they are elective representatives of marae and hapu to bring the issues facing them to the government and so if they are not going to listen to them, there is a problem. He has got to talk to them. Shane Jones talks to them all in an informal way anyway. That might be a bit of bluster on his part. I have no doubt that is very important. The government has a very hard line with them without really understanding the depth of the work that they are doing across this nation. They get a hard time about New Zealanders who say what are you doing with the treaty settlement? If we spend every cent of the treaty settlement, that money would be gone over a couple of years. That is the amount of money that the government spends annually on the social problems of this country. I would suggest that the new ministers and Shane Jones to rethink the relationship with the iwi chairs because they are doing some amazing things. COMING UP NEXT ` IS THERE REALLY ANY HOPE FOR PEACE IN THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT? CORIN WILL TALK TO VISITING ISRAELI JOURNALIST, GIDEON LEVY, LAST MONTH, MARKED 100 YEARS SINCE THE BALFOUR DECLARATION. A PLEDGE BY BRITAIN TO ESTABLISH A NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE IN PALESTINE. THAT DECISION SET IN TRAIN THE EVENTS THAT LED TO POSSIBLY THE MOST INTRACTABLE CONFLICT IN MODERN TIMES BETWEEN TWO PEOPLES WHO CLAIM THAT ANCIENT LAND AS THEIR OWN. MY NEXT GUEST HAS DESCRIBED HIMSELF AN ISRAELI PATRIOT, BUT HIS REPORTING ON THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT IS DEEPLY UNPOPULAR WITH HIS GOVERNMENT. GIDEON LEVY IS IN NEW ZEALAND TO GIVE A PUBLIC LECTURE, HOSTED BY THE NEW ZEALAND PALESTINE SOLIDARITY NETWORK. GOOD MORNING TO YOU. You have been described as the most hated man in Israel. You have worked for the Israeli government in the past as you have written for newspapers there. Why are you described is that ? People do not want to know the truth. They do not want to know what I am trying to mirror in front of the Israeli society. On their behalf there have been crimes on a daily basis 20 minutes or half an hour from our homes. It is even and are very dark backyard. We are possessing one of the most brutal tyrannies on earth. This has been going on for 50 years so no one can claim it is temporary. It has been to some cost to you personally? The real cost is for the Palestinian people. It is not always a great honour to walk and tell Aviv and be recognised. When did you become aware of these injustices? When I started to travel to the occupied territories. Gradually I realised that I was brainwashed all these years. By the end of the day, I realised that this was one ongoing crime against the people. It took me some years just to tell the story as a journalist. Israelis and need to know what it means to live under this brutality. It is an apartheid. They need to share one piece of land the other people have no rights whatsoever. It is apartheid. Everyone should realise it. New Zealand affiliate is apartheid with South Africa and segregation. Israel is a democracy for Jewish citizens. When you get to the occupied territories, then it is apartheid. There is no other way to describing it. Do you have hope that there can be a solution? Unfortunately not any more. For many years I believed in the two state solution. For two people to share one piece of land seemed like a good solution, but nobody is going to evacuate the land there is no viable Palestinian estate and therefore it is time for us in the world to change the discourse� and start talking about equal rights. What about Hamas? They are considered a terrorist organisation by New Zealand. They want to wipe Israel off the map. How could you possibly negotiate with them? I do not need to negotiate with you because we are n enemie l by the end of the date this was the Palestinian choice. PLO was a partner and they initially could not negotiate with them. we are not dealing with the symmetry. A Hamas justified and firing missiles at Israeli citizens? Nothing is justified in violenc l by the end of the day both sid suffer l Gaza is a cage. Do not forget that. Hamas took people from having no hope. How come the Israeli people as you call it brainwashed if Hamas want to wipe off Israel how can I take it any other way? Hamas is a new phenomenon. Israel did nothing to them. They will always find excuses not to put an end to the occupation. They claim divine promise and security. It corrupts Israel and destroys it from the inside. Do we continuous occupation or put an end to it? Hamas are not the main thing the main thing is that we need to find a way for this 4.5 million Palestinians to live. New Zealand co-sponsored UN security councl over the issue. The current government in New Zealand has decided to reprimand the minister who allowed that cosponsoring of the resolution. What do you take from that? This is your more business than ours. I think you should be very proud for this position. New Zealand has some reputation in the international arena of being one of those conscious states. You cannot continue watching this common occupation and just say nothing. 'It is from heaven, we cannot do anything about it.' The international arena needs to be brought into this. I am wondering if you are familiar with the new government coming in reprimanding the Minister who allowed that to go through. I think there is no reason to do so. I think you should stick to your position and be proud of it. That is domestic politics. I am not sure. I am just a visitor in this wonderful country. The Israeli government is showing signs of fascism. I do not have to describe. You just have to watch it for yourself. If you fight NGOs and you stifle any alternative voice and if you continue the occupation and declare there is no occupation how can you call it not fascism? If it was a fascist state, they would not let you talk? I did not say it was a fascist state. I said it showed signs of fascism. I get all the liberty of a freedom of speech. This should be appreciated and not taken for granted, but you see how legislation after legislation they will continue this if they do not get stopped. Is any cause for hope? It is very hard. I am not a man of hope. I do not see any scenario that leads us out of this. It is getting worse and worse. One should be realistic enough do not want miracles but I think we need a miracle. I think the real thing we need is the world to not be so indifferent to it. The world should not let another brother or sister to become like this. That is my hope. They get for your time. AFTER THE BREAK, OF ALL THE COMPANIES ON THE NZ-X TOP-50, ONLY ONE HAS A FEMALE CEO. ENTREPRENEUR AND FORMER TELECOM CEO THERESA GATTUNG IS NEXT, TO TALK ABOUT HER LATEST VENTURE AND HOW TO ENCOURAGE WOMEN INTO THOSE TOP JOBS. THERESA GATTUNG IS NO DOUBT ONE OF NEW ZEALAND'S BUSINESS SUCCESS STORIES. CEO OF A MAJOR COMPANY AT JUST 37, A BOARD DIRECTOR AND MORE RECENTLY, CO-FOUNDER OF THE ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL MY FOOD BAG. THERE'S A LOT AN ASPIRING ENTREPRENEUR COULD LEARN FROM HER. AND SO SHE'S PUTTING HER NAME AND HER TIME BEHIND A NEW VENTURE THAT PROVIDES INTEREST-FREE LOANS TO BUSINESSES LED BY WOMEN. THERESA GATTUNG JOINS ME NOW. Tell us about this new item a new project - SHE-eo. Is a brainchild of of a Canadian and I thought it was brilliant and New Zealand would really embrace it. I asked her to come down to New Zealand earlier on in the year and we got it up and running here. How it works as 500 investors contribute $1100 to fund. Woman led ventures apply to be a venture the 500 women there is no Dragon's den about this vote for the best ventures and narrow it down to the top five ventures. Those five ventures get a loan of around $100,000 each. They are supported by the network of woman. They get guidance and experience. The businesses who apply have to be majority woman owned and have to be a business not just an idea or plan, they have got to have at least $50,000 and do something good for the community or country. Why is there the need? The woman who founded thistalked about the lack of woman lead programs. I came back home and decided to research the New Zealand statistics. There was no data. I can see that it is much harder for women to get funding. Particularly if their idea as a bit off the radar. Is it that on to penurious levels in New Zealand are low in general? CORRECTION: Entreprenurial no, not at all. It is a very Kiwi thing to do. There is limited capital pools in New Zealand and in a way activating women because of thousand dollars is non-trivial, but it makes a big impact. What is the issue? Women and money. I was the daughter of immigrants and it was always about that. I did a business degree but not a lot of women are into money. It is the case that it is harder you saw the stats ` one woman running a top country at the moment. Is it institutional sexism? It is unconscious bias. If the funding is made by men, they tend to back men. Surely, it is just at the idea. Why not do it blind? Blind is a really good idea. That really increases the number of women getting funding as opposed to men around the world. You see it with orchestras. Women often leave it behind screens. Does it disappoint you that there is only one woman Leading the top 50 New Zealand companies? I am gobsmacked. We can do something about it. This not simply the way that it is. We have made some progress on the board level we have got men with daughters in business school we can do something about it. This is the society that we have created. Are the extra barriers that women have to overcome? Yes, in My Food Bag we doubled paid parental leave last year. It was appreciated even amongst the men in the office. It meant they could also take time when their wife was on maternity leave. The is a 10% pay equity gap in New Zealand. You think it would be explained by timeout. 80% of it was unexplainable. It was conscious and unconscious bias. So regulation could fix that? No. I think what conflicts it is people of the world that wants to make it different. For example, some organ stations now insist that there are men and women on the shortlist. Some organisation set goals that every job will go to the woman or set targets. There are plenty of organisations doing this. There were organisations and New Zealand doing this. When US CEO of Telecom, did you suffer from the gender pay gap? When the male that followed me was paid a lot better I realised it. Is it a barrier that you have to make it your whole life? Is hard being a CEO for men and women. It is harder. It is more encompassing. It takes a lot of sacrifice. It is not a choice that all women are prepared to make. I think increasingly these days I had a wonderful speech at the Deloitte awards about needing to lead businesses in the way that it is being done there. It is all about balance. What do you make of the current business environment ` you get a sense of the demand out there with My Food Bag ` are you feeling that things are all right? I think things are all right and New Zealand. We live in a country that actually does tend to be pragmatic, accept things and move on. I just despair ` I've been to the US recently ` and looking at the entrenched positions of hatred and lack of communication. I feel very blessed to live in New Zealand because I like the fact that we can disagree but still talk civilly. THANKS, CORIN. WE'LL PICK UP ON THOSE ISSUES WITH THE PANEL Welcome back to our panel. Marama Fox, what did you make of Theresa and SHE-eo? It is only $1100. I would love to get on board. In New Zealand we have a program for Maori women they give ongoing support to Maori woman and show them how to get through that chasm to get even bigger. Had you not have your profile with the profile of being an MP, what the transition have been a lot harder? Yes. It has been a lot easier for me to get into this role. It did play a big part having a high profile to do that. The people who do amazing things who continue to struggle. How did they describe it ` this institutional sexism, that unconscious bias when you get to middle management and men at the top. It is not about having babies, it is about the fact that women operate differently. We talk through issues. You have meetings with men, and men would say, 'H had you girls finished?' In a interrogatory way. The fact that we even need this in 2017 is despairing. I when was the last time that we actually heard of a male entrepreneur? The fact that we had to put female in front of the word odd when you we talked about this just shows that there is an issue. We talk about men and women differently, and that is the same in the business world. We need to be careful also that we are not doing it in a way that there is also a negative. I am very proud to be the first female CEO of our innovation and hundred and 50 years. We won a really effective women's leadership program. Here we are these many years later and we see that her $1 million salary as the Telecom CEO is a lot less. It can't be explained away By saying that women do that to themselves. Less clear that one away. I think we need to use these attributes that women tend to have more and skew it to its leadership. I am not interested in having a woman at the top and behaving just like men have. You just said behave like men. Like what? Our panel not interrupting each other, for a start. This is the generalisation ` but a much more collaborative approach than what men have had in the past. I would like to see both genders move towards that style of leadership. That's what it should bring about when women come into these roles. I do not want to see the same old stale leadership regurgitated. Should the government be stepping in on this? Women can and do arise when they're given an equal playing field to do so. This is about growing culture in New Zealand to say that women can be successful. Women who go to work and sacrifice being at home with their families are not treated the same way that a man or father who does the same. What is the difference? He is the difference. CORRECTION: Here is the difference. I say, 'kids have you got this? And you know what men say? 'See ya.' Women are seen to be interrogatory to a family environment if they are successful. Men are never judged as looking like they are not spending enough time at home. If there sent to Australia for four weeks, they are not judged from being away from family. People asking me constantly when I'm away, when a going home to see your children ? I think this is about a society as a whole changing. This is about the whole of society understanding that woman play a very important role in the community. Not just at home, but at work too. There is research that shows that when you have diversity and governance, the program will be more successful. I am very fortunate that my husband since the children off to school but I think it's important that we provide the right amount of woman in the workplace and we change the culture of society. The first question that a lot of people ask me and my first role was 'how are you going to manage the family ?' A man will never be asked that question. The problem we asked it for different intentions, but I think we need to be careful of this sort of comments. It does put us in the back seat. This is dangerous ask for a bloke to be sitting here and asking this as I would tread carefully, but if you are a boss and you've got two people a man and a woman of a similar age and they have got the same qualifications and you think well she might go away and have a family, you're always going to lead it was the bloke, right push and mark No. We have some of the best woman in the workplace because we allow flexibility. They work very hard because of that. I think that perception of the female who was going to have children or moving to part time, I think my experience it works very well and they work very hard. I think it's about resetting that whole thought process. And making sure that businesspeople do not think like that. Just getting back to Teresa's program, is this almost an admission that there is not going to be as many CEOs who are female who are male? Again, it is saying that the market has failed. It is saying that we are not utilising that incredible pool of talent. This is one style of intervention. One concern is we have quite a few initiatives going out improving women's role in leadership and I think we need coordination between them. If we bought them together, we would have a better bang for our buck. No one will be surprised about this, but my hit for the week as the six-week paid parental leave. My miss would be the Waikato DHB that missed that their CEO was missing for half the year. The CEO was swanning off in hotel rooms. My hit was that New Zealand is ranked number one My miss was was hearing a few horrific statistics and a meeting this year. We have had 96 people take their own lives. We also need to focus on mental health. 26-week paid parental leave is my hit. Making it both ways, helps with the gender pay gap. My miss is he who shall not be named whose head is wearing in the media again but Don Brash coming out against Guy Espinor for using Te Reo on radio. MARAE IS NEXT. REMEMBER Q+A REPEATS TONIGHT AT 11.35PM. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. THOSE WERE THE QUESTIONS AND THOSE WERE THE ANSWERS ` THAT'S Q+A. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY AT 9, OUR LAST PROGRAMME OF THE YEAR. COPYRIGHT ABLE 2017