Kei nga ihoiho o nga maunga whakahi, kei nga wai whakatere taniwha tena koutou katoa. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e mihi atu nei, nau mai, tahuti mai ra. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` Affordable, accessible, illegal. To be honest, that's quite a bit of weed. Yeah. Maki Herbert is risking it all, producing homegrown marijuana remedies that are bringing relief to sufferers of chronic pain. You got your life back. I've got my life back. And ` a community divided. Should Poverty Bay return to its original name Turanganui-a-Kiwa? That's too long. Just Turanganui would do. Yes, I do think it should be changed. Once you start it, it's going to escalate. We bring together both sides of the debate. I love the Maori people, and so many of them say to me, 'Mike, we're quite happy to leave it alone. 'Just leave it as it is.' So... Well, you've just met one that isn't happy. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2018 Karahuihui mai. For many sufferers of chronic pain, homegrown marijuana provides affordable relief. But it's also high risk. Both users and suppliers facing jail time. Now a new Labour Party bill will provide a legal defence for terminally ill users of illicit marijuana. But those who suffer from chronic conditions and their suppliers say the bill doesnt go far enough. They want to be protected by the law too. Anei te ripoata a Rewa Harriman. (SLOW GUITAR MUSIC) Maki Herbert calls herself a green fairy, growing and suppling cannabis to those who need it to manage their chronic pain. To be honest, that's quite a bit of weed. Yeah, it is. But I help a lot of people. So it goes with the territory. Talking openly to The Hui, she's is risking it all to show the public what she does and who she's helping. The law sucks. You know, they're just making criminals out of us. Maki makes cannabis oil, cannabis balm and cannabis green tea with her plants. The plants are deemed ilicit, so it's all illegal. So I've cooked it on slow cook for three and a half hours, and I've let it sit. So it's only three ingredients. Totally organic. But not yet legal. Not legal. The balm, that's what it looks like. You add lavender? I add lavender to it. Couple of teaspoons of cannabis green tea. Just like if you were doing a coffee. Great for the stomach. Oh, yummy. Knock-knock. Kia ora, Auntie. Kia ora, Maki. Aw, kia ora, Auntie. Kia ora. Kia ora. Maki helps who she can. Come on. Come in, come in. Today Auntie Bet, in her 70s, who's been living with agonising arthritis for years. I just wouldn't be without it. I know it's illegal, I know the law, but I am prepared to keep using it as well. So, you had pain with it? I'm` It was so painful, I couldn't even lie on it. A lot of people, when they've tried everything else and I offer them this, and they go home and try it, and they say, 'Fantastic, amazing. It worked.' What do you do?. You just... You tautoko them all the time. It's now been a year since Auntie Bet started using the balm, and she says the difference to her quality of life has been remarkable. Prior to using it, I would make, say, a trip to Te Awamutu and be crippled for two days. I go there now, and I'm as active as anybody else. You've got your life back? I've got my life back. I've got my life back. I can do whatever I want to do now. I can go wherever I want to. Currently, people who are dying or who suffer chronic conditions like epilipsy can be perscibed cannabis-based prodcuts legally, but these treatments are very expensive. So to make this kind of pain relief more acessable, the Labour Party has introduced the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. The package that we've put together is real progress. A key part providing a legal defence for the terminally ill with less than a year to live to possess and use illict cannabis. In other words they can use homegrown marijuana. But that's not the case for sufferers of chronic pain, who could still face jail time if caught using it. It's only catering for a very small sector of the community who have been given a death sentence anyway. Anyone that has something that needs to be fixed and it can be fixed with cannabis, then let it be cannabis. GP Dr Graham Gulbransen couldn't agree more. He's a medical cannabis specialist who's prescribed legal cannabis prodcuts to over 40 people in the last year. It's not the stone that's the benefit. It's the chemical processes in the body that just calm down pain and calm down cancer growth, calm down anxiety. So generally my experience is that the side effects from medicinal cannabis are probably less than from some of the strong painkillers, for instance, that we use in medicine. While Dr Gulbransen is legally allowed to prescribe cannabis-based products,... Cheers and same to you. ...he doesn't want to see those in chronic pain criminalised for using illicit cannabis remedies or their suppliers either. There are desperate people who are being helped by compassionate providers, and they are taking legal risks themselves, so I think we need to protect more people than just the patient. Illicit marijuana is often much cheaper than the legal products, partly because cannabis medications aren't subsidised in New Zealand. The cost of this is around $1000, so it works out to be about $4 a spray. Some people will need it up to five or 10 or 12 times a day, looking at $50 a day. Well, that's going to be unaffordable for most people. We need to be thinking about affordability for our people not only select for the rich who can afford it, cos at the moment, that's what it is. That's Mum and Dad. Ngati Wai MP Jenny Marcroft knows what it's like to watch a loved one suffer in chronic pain. She lost her mother Helen to cancer when she was a child. How hard was it to watch your mum suffer the way she did? Her slow demise was very painful to watch. And it is, you know, within our human condition to want to heal and stop that pain. While she sympathises with those suffering from chronic pain, she says decriminalising homegrown products would cause even more suffering. We have a drug issue, and that is a cause for concern, so we need to have strict guidelines and boundaries around that. Yes, there is a need to be compassionate, there is a need to provide a medicinal medicine that will relieve pain and suffering, but by the same token, we can't open the door widely. We need a regulated environment, and we need the doctors to be fully on board with this. We need them to be comfortable that they're prescribing the right product for the right illness. We'll be able to develop our own industry that will make these products far more accessible and affordable for New Zealanders. But that industry could take up to two years to develop, so for now, chronic pain suffers might have to rely on green fairies like Maki. When people see this many plants for one person, they may think, 'She's up to no good.' Oh, there's always a risk. Yeah, well, there's always a risk that I might get ripped off or I'll get busted again. Maki has already been slapped with a conviction and sentenced to 12 months' home detention. She knows under current law another prosecution could put her in jail. I'm not going to fight the authorities. If they come knocking at my door, 'course I'm going to plead guilty. And what? Really, at the end of the day... Because you're so passionate. I'm so passionate. And I believe in what I'm doing. And there's a whole lot of other people who are like me ` believe in what we're doing. However, until chronic pain sufferers get the same legal rights as the terminally ill, Auntie Bet and many more like her will continue to be on the wrong side of the law. Under current law, you're a criminal. Well, I am a criminal. I know that under the current law. And the sooner they have this thing legalised, the better for everyone. Everyone. You see it as as medicine now, not as a... It's a medicine that needs to be used. It needs to be used. Na Rewa Harriman tera purongo. Public submissions on the the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill are open until March the 21st. A ko ake nei, ka tahuri te aroaro ki te Tairawhiti, we delve into the Poverty Bay, Turanganui-a-Kiwa name debate. Hoki mai ano. What's in a name? Well, for many Maori from the East Coast district of Poverty Bay, it's a daily reminder of the murder and mayhem visited upon their tupuna when James Cook and his crew first arrived on the coast. Today there's a call to include the original name, Turanganui-a-Kiwa, in its offical title. But despite having the backing of the regional council, there's strong resistance from some locals. Anei te purongo a Ruwani Perera. It's the talk of te Tai Rawhiti. Oh, this is the Poverty Bay question. Do you think the name should be changed? Yes, I do think it should be changed. To Maori, it's officially known as Turanganui-a-Kiwa, and we do need that official stamp, we do need that official recognition, because it's only right. One faction say, 'We gotta change it.' Another faction says, 'Leave it alone. 'Just put it in bed. Tuck it away.' An official application to replace the name Poverty Bay with it's original name Turanganui-a-Kiwa is dividing this community. It's the thin end of the wedge. Once you start it, it's going to escalate. I think we must retain a degree of our colonialism, I do. Almost 250 years on, there's a renewed push for change. There was a priest called Kiwa and a captain called Pawa, and they were on the Horotou waka, and they came to Aotearoa, but they hit a sandbar and their waka was damaged. So Pawa told Kiwa to look after the boat at a bay while Pawa went to go and get some resources, and Kiwa said to himself, 'Pawa is taking forever,' so he named the bay Turanganui-a-Kiwa ` the long standing place of Kiwa. Over 500 years after Kiwa, Lt James Cook sailed unchartered waters to become the first European to make landfall here in 1769. Originally intending to name his discovery Endeavour Bay, Cook left empty-handed after his crew killed several Maori. Leaving without the vital supplies he needed inspired him to name this province Poverty Bay. Well, it came from Captain Cook didn't it? He didn't have a good time when he came round here did he? Well, people say it's we're living in poverty in Gisborne, but it's not like that. Turanganui-a-Kiwa? Do you prefer that? No, that's too long. Just doesn't... Turanganui would do. The push for a name change has sparked much debate. While Tairawhiti's colonial past has a strong presence here, is there enough to acknowledge the contribution Maori have made, considering they settled here first? No, I don't think that Maori, the original settlers here, have got that much recognition here. I'm more concerned about giving recognition to the names that actually existed. Sea captain and voyager Te Aturangi Nepia-Clamp has been sailing for more than 30 years. He feels the time has come to recognise those who have shaped our past and use it to educate future generations. Now, I'm not in favour of Poverty Bay, but as many would say, it is a part of our history, just as Turanganui-a-Kiwa is a part of our history. I... have mixed feelings about, um, what happened with the first, uh` first arrival, and they aren't pleasant feelings because of the bloodshed. Gisborne retiree Mike Mulrooney is strongly in support of keeping the status quo and wrote into the local paper arguing that history is history and no one has the right to alter it. I do like to impress upon people whatever I write is an opinion. I'm not an historian at all in no way shape or form, but I like to think what I think. Those in the pro-change camp argue that the word 'poverty' has negative connotations, being inferior and extremely poor. Um, I think it's, uh, lack of putea. Poverty Bay, that was our name. That's all there was to it. And they didn't have this thought that, 'Oh, Poverty ` must be awful.' It never occurred to them at all. But do you understand how it might cause offence? We've had good times and bad times. The name of Poverty Bay weren't the reason for the bad times. It was just things that happened. Our freezing works closed down or Watties closed down. It's not the name, nothing to do with the name. Hi. Hi. I'm pleased to meet you, sir. Pleased to meet you. We brought both sides of the naming debate together... That is sharing the air, isn't it? Is that what is is? Indeed, yes. Oh, good. Nice to see you. ...to express their views on the name-change take. I have great Maori fiends. I love the Maori people. And so many of them say to me, 'Mike, we're quite happy to leave it alone. Just leave it as it is.' Well, you've just met one that isn't happy. Maybe we do need to rewrite the history books, because at that point of time he was Lieutenant, not a captain. Ah. OK, yep, yep. If we're talking about getting history accurate, we should be concise and we should be consistent. History is history. I'm not saying, 'Get rid of Poverty Bay.' What I'm saying is` No, I understand that. What I'm saying is let's recognise history for what it is and respect our... all of our histories. Redefining our colonial past and recognising the name Turanganui-a-Kiwa was the dream of Gisborne community leader Rawinia Te Kani. Nanny Ra didn't live to see her dream of an official name change, but this generation might have better luck. Her grandaughter, teacher Ana Te Kani, says chldren like 11-year-old Connor Paenga have a good understanding of their history. Our kids at Kaiti School definitely know that Turanganui-a-Kiwa is the name that was given to this area, and I suppose when you say 'Poverty Bay' to them, they go, 'What's that name, koka? Never heard that name before.' It was Kaiti School who got the ball rolling five years ago, creating a petition to officially change the name. It's now got the backing from the powers that be at Gisborne City Council. It's about giving mana back to the name. Kiwa was the person... you know, is the tipuna that arrived here and he gave that name, and that name has more meaning, more valuable meaning than Poverty Bay. We haven't got poverty in Poverty Bay. No way. We have got children that go to school barefoot. It's not the name that causes it; it's bad parenting. (CHUCKLES) No, I don't have that opinion. No, thank you, yeah. I appreciate the fact that you greeted me with a hongi. Yeah. That impressed me. Oh, thank you. It impressed me because I can see you have some recognition and acknowledgement of our culture, and I like that. You know, we all learn something every day. We sure do. Just as well we're still open to it. (CHUCKLES) Indeed. Thank you, Te Aturangi. You're very welcome. Plenty more discussion and historical research is now being done, and it'll be the geographical board who will decide on any offial name change. Safe travel. OK, thank you. Cheers, buddy. Bye. The descendants of Kiwa feel they've waited long enough to finally set the history books straight. We were the original name here, and somehow it's just been brushed under the carpet without a thought to our feelings. Turanganui-a-Kiwa is something special to me because it was named by a significant tipuna from around this area. If I could change it, that would be really good, and I'd be happy, because we're not poor. Na Ruwani Perera tera purongo. A ko ake nei, ka korero ahau ki nga wahine e tata whainga ana kia riro i te kaiarahitanga o te Ropu Kakariki. The Green Party will announce its new co-leader on April the 8th. Since August last year, leader James Shaw has been flying solo, following the resignation of Metiria Turei. Around 150 delegates and 70 branches will determine who the winner will be. Both candidates join me now. They are from Ngapuhi, Ngati Porou and Te Rarawa mother-of-six Marama Davidson and the Minister for Women and expectant mum Julie Anne Genter. Tena korua. Tena koutou, actually! Morena. Morena. Minister... Minister, you saw the first story there on cannabis before. If you had the opportunity to reform that bill` that law, would Maki Herbert be able to prepare cannabis like she was? Absolutely. This is an issue that I'm very passionate about. I had a member's bill drawn from the ballot last year that would have made growing, possessing, using cannabis for medicinal purposes legal. And unfortunately, that bill did not pass first reading. It was taken over by my colleague Chloe Swarbrick, because as a minister, I couldn't have a member's bill. I had a very clear speech on the Labour Party's bill, which is better than nothing, but it's just` it's way past time. It's so cruel. So for you, if you saw Jenny Marcroft, another Maori politician from the north not so comfortable with that behaviour, so where do you sit on that? So, Mihi, I acknowledge the harm that paricularly Maori communities have seen through generations of addiction. So that's why even more so we have to take up the Green Party approach of harm minimisation and as a health issue. And that's why I'm really proud of the work that Minister Genter did on the bill for medicinal cannabis because it does come back to ` how can we ease the suffering of our people? Not just those with terminal illness, but those also with chronic pain. Ka pai. Let's move on to why we're here, and it's the race for co-leadership. Can I start with one of the objectives in your consitution is honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi. What does that mean, Julie Anne? I think it's recognising that tangata whenua have a partnership role with the Crown; they're kaitiaki. And I think that the Green Party needs to uphold and honour and fight for Te Tiriti to be recognised and that Pakeha have a really important role to play ` that it's not just up to Maori to be arguing for their rights and sovereignty; actually, we need to as well. Is it about sharing power too, Marama? Like, I know you've got Te Ropu Pounamu, who works alongside the executive of the Green Party. What is the role there? At the highest level, Te Tiriti should affirm the tino rangatiratanga and mana motuhake of iwi and hapu. And that hasn't been realised yet, Mihi. And also in the Green Party, we're proud to have` Inside the Green Party, I'm talking about. So let's focus within your own executive. Te Ropu Pounamu ` how does that work with the executive? So we need to ensure inside the Green Party that our power is being shared at the highest level, that Maori members of the Green Party are making decisions all along the way to maintain the Green Party's responsibility to Te Tiriti as well. That's Te Ropu Pounamu's job, isn't it? We're not quite there yet, Mihi. I'm keen on leading some constitutional reform to make sure that Te Ropu Pounamu is actually equally sharing the power and the decision-making process. Cos when I was talking to a spokesperson from the Green Party yesterday, they said that the ideas that Te Ropu Pounamu would work alongside everyone and would be woven through the decision-making of the Green Party. So if that is the idea of it, as a minister, when have you recently consulted with Te Ropu Pounamu on the decisions you've been making? With all of our bills and all of our decisions, we look at it from a Te Tiriti lens, and we will go to our advisors` So do you go through Te Ropu`? It's interesting. So, we have parliamentary staff who advise us, and then there's the party who make decisions about our overall structural policy and political position` So, I'm just trying look at the partnership idea here. So if you've got Te Ropu Pounamu with your executive, surely if that's their role, that they should be working with everybody` Well, as it happens, one of our Maori advisors is a member of Te Ropu Pounamu, so he's offering us advice. But on all of our issues in a parliamentary sense, we don't always go back to the party to consult; rather we're looking at it within the parliamentary context and making reference to the party policy. But probably we have an executive representative and a policy representative on caucus, and ideally we'd have a Te Ropu Pounamu representative on caucus as well. Cos it kind of feels like it's a clip-on policy when it's not being utilised in the way it's meant to be. So can I ask you`? I think that Te Ropu Pounamu, they're volunteers, and they're not well resourced to be providing advice on a moment's notice. Why wouldn't the party who talks about partnership and Te Tiriti o Waitangi not resource and pay`? We have full-time employees who are employees in Parliament who are Maori advisers. What is the point of Te Ropu Pounamu? So we've got some more to do, Mihi. We've absolutely got some work to do to actually make sure that the Green Party, regardless of how many Maori we have got, can uphold its responsibility to Te Tiriti. On a scale of one to 10, then, how is the Green Party performing in terms of its honouring Te Tiriti? Recognising the incredible work that people like Metiria Turei and other Maori members have done to make sure that the Green Party is now the only political party left in Parliament to state its commitment to Te Tiriti right at the top` So one out of 10? One out of 10? So I reckon we're probably at maybe a six, but it's a bit hard. What do you think there, Minister? Well, I would take Marama's advice on this, but I think that we also have as Tangata Tiriti we have a responsiblity to honour Te Tiriti as well. Ka pai. And to ensure that that perspective is being taken when we look at all of our bills. I'm just going to look for yesses and nos, because we've only got a really short time. If the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary bill was to be put back on the table, would you keep the treaty right clause? Uh, it can only be done with iwi and mana whenua agreeing to the conservation sanctuary plan. You can't have both ways, so it's either in or out ` the treaty clause. The treaty clause? Oh, in. Definitely in. OK. If you were to win the co-leadership, in the wairua of partnership, would you share some of your responsiblities with the only Maori member in your`? Absolutely. Absolutely. Your ministerial roles? Um, well, I will always be looking and consulting for advice with Marama in all of my ministerial roles. But isn't it about Maori also being in the driving seat, rather than consultancy? When I say consult, I think Marama can tell you, I take what she has to say very, very seriously. But you wouldn't give up any of your portfolios? Oh, that's, um` I've got some. (CHUCKLES) I don't have that choice. That's not my power. That's the Prime Minister's power to decide who are ministers. I wish it were mine. (CHUCKLES) Ka pai. Tena koutou. Thank you for joining us this morning. Kia ora. Good luck to you both. Kia ora. Kia ora. Hei tera wiki i runga i a Te Hui ` When Roimata Kenny was released from prison, he was desperate to turn his life around but struggled to find anyone who'd give him a second chance. If prisoners and ex-prisoners don't get a second chance, what do you think the dangers are to society? If you call someone an idiot enough times, he's gonna always think he's an idiot. So it's the same with the prisoner. If you just hold him out and you exclude him, he's just gonna feel excluded and become that outcast, that scumbag that you think that he is. Almost pulled back into a life of crime, a remarkable twist of fate would change his life. Here we go. Next week ` we bring you the redemption story of Roimata Kenny. Kua hikina te hui mo tenei ra. We'll post links to the show on our Facebook page and on Twitter @thehuinz, and you'll find all our stories on the Newshub website. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by Desney Shaw. www.able.co.nz Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2018 He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui was made with funding from the NZ On Air Platinum Fund.