Kei nga matuku nuia o te motu ruku mai ki te tai korero o Te Hui. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e mihi atu nei, nau mai, tahuti mai ra. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` He was a keeper of a secret. You say nothing. You say nothing and you live with that. In the wake of the Awanuiarangi Black revelation, actor Pete Smith breaks his silence about the sexual abuse he suffered as a child. I knocked on that door of death because, to me, death was a way out. Try and live with this. And we discuss if abusers can be rehabilitated and how to break the cycle of sexual abuse. Take back the power of the secret. (SNIFFS) It has no power in the light. Copyright Able 2018 Karahuihui mai. It was the revelation that rocked the motu. When Awanuiarangi Black's former wife took to Facebook to call for survivors of sexual abuse to speak their truth, it reverberated far and wide. Now others are stepping forward to share their stories of abuse. Pete Smith became one of the most recognised faces in New Zealand film following his break-out role as Dooley in Once Were Warriors. What many don't know is Smith too has been a keeper of the secret, a victim of sexual abuse. Inspired by the call from Anihera Black, Smith speaks out for the first time about the abuse he suffered, and standing in the light. Just a warning ` this story contains some explicit korero. So don't come in here accusing my mates of shit! Hey, come on, man. Look, no one's thinking straight. We're family. Right? Beth. It was your bloody mate who handed her the rope! Sit down. Have a drink. How did it feel for you watching Once Were Warriors when all that was happening? Drama. You see that for real, it ain't drama. That's real. You can put your tears on, you can look frightened, you can... scream and put on the best performance of your life and convince people. But you try doing that for real. It's like Silence of the Lambs. That's why, when it was happening to me, I couldn't say anything. They say that when you've been abused and you've been paedophiled and you've had the most heinous things done to you, that... it can convert you into one. And when I heard that, for 40 years of my life I would pray and hope that this disease doesn't get me. Cos I didn't know, 'How does that catch you?' I was lucky that I had enough energy and creativeness to be able to distract myself away from those things. But I knocked on that door of death because, to me, death was a way out. Try and live with this. Tell me about your childhood. Where did you grow up and how many siblings were there? I'm one of 14. And my mum and dad both from the same area. My dad was Ratana, and my mum was Catholic. Because the whanaungatanga dynamics were very strong with the north and with people down here, we as children were` we were old enough to do dishes, milk a cow, cut a tea tree, dig a wiwi, um, then you got sent to your auntie's or to your uncle's, and we all got spread out at different places. To work. To work, basically. Mm. Those of us who were told to, you know, head up north and help on our auntie's farm, we took that opportunity, me and three others, and we were just drifting from that auntie's to this uncle's to that auntie's to this uncle's. But we weren't the only ones. There was an assortment of other whanau as well that used to come and stay together. So our rooms used to be single rooms with six in the bed, all boys ` older ones and younger ones would be all mixed together. Now, the experience we started having ` or I started having ` was... The older ones, what they were doing, it didn't seem like a sickness or anything, it just seemed like... doing tutu, being tutu. And it would range from sneaking into your bed, pulling your pants down, then, you know, doing the business behind you, and then grabbing the front of you and doing the business there. And you got afraid to say anything, except the closer cousins that were getting the same treatment. It was sad because there was weak ones there that... couldn't quite handle it and you had to awhi them through it. And I always used to say to them, 'Come on, bro. Don't worry about Titoi and the Bum Bandits. 'Let's just get on with it.' You made a name for them. I made a name for them so that we could laugh about it. Titoi and the Bum Bandits ` that's what we used to call them. How old were you? Uh, about 9, 10. Can you tell me about the next time you were abused? Uh, I was going to standard four, Mt Roskill Catholic school ` St Terese's. And I used to wag, and I used to hide in these hedges where the bus depot used to be. And I was fascinated by these big rollers they used to clean these buses and watch this man with a big sponge, cleaning the windows. Until one day he caught me. And he said, 'Oh, come over.' And he had a bus there where he used to have his lunch. When I look back, I saw how he was grooming me, eh, for the big kill. The big kill, man. So... I went around about four, five times I went back. And then the last time, he said, 'Oh, come in. I've got some chocolate biscuits.' I went in there and had some chocolate biscuits. And he started walking around, closing the curtains of the bus where he used to have his morning tea. And, uh, then he locked the doors. I wasn't afraid, eh. I didn't know how to be afraid of these things. And then, um, he proceeded by saying, 'I do things to my wife, but she can't do them back to me. 'And that's what I want you to do to me.' And, uh, then he proceeds to, uh,... do all the pornography things and takes my pants off, and starts doing the old titoi. Then he pulls down his pants, and all I can see is this moon arse, and he's going. Now get behind me. And, uh, after I done that, he got back down again, laid me on the floor, and just went about his business, just... Just doing it. Hands all over my titoi nga raho. And, uh, I was just not even numb, just laying there like this. When it all finished, I didn't cry, I didn't run home in terror, I didn't get scared. He just... told me to put my clothes back on and gave me 50c. When you started to think about the abuse as an adult, how did it hit you? Suddenly. Bang! 'You're not listening to anybody, Pete. We'll make you listen. 'We'll give you a disease in your kidneys, eh? That should do it.' And it did. Total darkness, blackness, and everything came back into my mind. Ready to give up. And when they said, 'You're gonna have to go to dialysis sooner or later,' that's when I decided to do myself in. And my daughter said, 'No, you can't, Pop.' 'It's my life.' 'Well, you won't get to see your moko.' 'What? 'I'm having a moko?' That was enough to keep me going. What do you want to say to Whaea Ani if you have an opportunity, if she was listening. What would you say? I would say, 'Stick to your truth, Whaea. Kia kaha, 'kia maia, kia manawanui. 'And if I was there by you, I would awhi you and wrap my arms around you. 'And... not be bothered about what people are saying. 'You know, you're lightening your heart.' And I say this to Awanuiarangi whanau ` 'Don't play the man, play the kaupapa.' Cos there's one thing I know about paedophiles ` they lead a secret life. Very secret. Do you have a message for other parents who don't have the same experience as you in terms of just being careful of their whanau and their tamariki, their nieces and their nephews? Just be brave. Just be brave and do the right thing. And your heart will tick with the motivation of your tupuna. Cos they're telling you to do it, but you can't because you're afraid. Can you wear that? Are you brave enough to stand that as a parent? To say, 'Stop doing that to my children'? Or you just be like us and just keep quiet, even knowing that you know, and you're silent. So if I was to say to any parent that may be (CLEARS THROAT) in the position that... their gut instinct is telling them something, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to be brave. That was Pete Smith sharing his mihi to Anihera Black. Noho tonu mai ra ka haere tonu nga korero. Hei muri i nga whakatairanga ka korero nga matanga me nga morehu o te raweki tamariki? Can sexual abusers be rehabilitated, and how do we break the cycle of abuse? Our panel of experts join me next. Tauti mai ano e te iwi. 'Take back the power of the secret. It has no power in the light.' These were the words shared by Anihera Black, who called on survivors of sexual abuse to make their voices heard. Black's Facebook video has sparked fierce debate between those who support her and those who don't. It has also created a space for us to talk about the issue of child sexual abuse ` how to prevent it, how to detect it and how to begin to heal from it. So to discuss this, I'm joined today by clinical psychologist Kiri Tamihere-Waititi and two survivors of sexual abuse, now social worker educators, Paora Moyle and Eugene Ryder. Tena koutou katoa. Thank you for joining us. We've just watched the story of Pete Smith. I guess, Paora, I'll start with you. What will people learn from Pete's story and his courage to speak up? The first thing I would like to say is that anybody who feeds off the light of a child, the innocence of a child, are really unwell. And even, like, into the language that Ani uses, 'the dark and the light', (CLEARS THROAT) these people are so unwell it's almost akin to the Devil's spawn. And, um, the movement across the globe and how rings` the formation is there; we're up against a lot. And anybody who has the ability to free themselves and find their voices, stand up and say, 'This is not OK.' Yeah, they're essentially freeing themselves, and some of us have done that. And Pete now has too. It's taken him a long time. Eugene, you would have listened there. He felt like he just had to be silent for so long. Did you feel that? Yeah. I think, you know, the shame that's associated with being abused and being in those situations encourages silence. And when the people that are the abusers are people that you hold, uh, in a space of authority, then you feel you've got no choice but to remain silent. Kiri, I'll come to you. Thank you so much for coming on the panel. We are really interested to share some of your views in the field of work that you do. Pete talked about how he had to consciously be conscious all the time for 40 years of not becoming an abuser. What do you know about becoming an abuser or not becoming an abuser? Well, I think it's really clear for everybody to understand that not all people who are victims and/or survivors of child sexual abuse do end up offending. Mm. Although there is a vast amount of research to show that those perpetrators of child sexual abuses, many have been offended themselves in that way. It's really, really difficult to generalise outcomes in the way of child sexual abuse. And that's because child sexual abuse encompasses a really wide range of sexual activities. A lot of people think, when they hear 'child sexual abuse', they immediately associate it with intercourse. And that's not necessarily the case. So it's that diverse that we can go from intercourse to attempted intercourse to exhibitionism to fondling on top of the clothes, underneath the clothes, attempted fondling. There's all sorts of exposing children to sexual activities and pornography ` all those there encompass what we call child sexual abuse. And because they're so diverse, we get really diverse outcomes. And then layering on top of that is the fact that you've gotta look at the nature of the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator, the age of the perpetrator and the victim. Um, all sorts of variables play into what the outcome will look like eventually. So it's really hard to generalise. And if I could add to that, uh, even people who have not been sexualised as children by adults can go on to be offenders. And the research says only a small percentage of those that have been sexually abused will go on to be abusive to children. Many will go on to have normal 'General Joe' lives like the rest of use. In the fields that you're working in ` social work and educating ` what has the reaction been to the Anihera Black video? Cos there's been a lot of talk on Facebook. I wonder if it's gone further than that and people have contacted social` Yeah, I think what it did was it gave permission for those that have held on to secrets to contact people that are involved in that space. So there still remains the fear and the shame, and some of the people that have contacted me are waiting for the perpetrators to die before they come out with their korero because the perpetrators are so close to them. And for some, they're their fathers, they're their uncles, they're their kaumatua. And they don't want to be seen to be responsible for hurting the perpetrators. Breaking up families. Yeah. Are we equipped to respond to people who are stepping forward and putting their hand up? How much support do they need? I think that are equipped` we have to be equipped to respond. I think what Ani has opened up is a pathway. And my son refers to it as 'lights along the runway' ` those that bring light to it, that are able to talk about it. And when you know the vastness of it ` and we're not just talking about our uncles and our next-door neighbours and our aunties and what have you at home; we're talking about paedophile rings that are organised, that are powerful. They know what they're doing; they're in contact online. I knew them as a child in state care. They were normal. And we were accessed by organised rings. Does that surprise you? Well, you know, it's really interesting. After Ani Black's video came out, I had screeds and screeds of people getting in contact with me and asking for support. So I'd argue about whether there is support there. Cos there's different levels in which people are seeking support. And I think at a whanau, community, hapu level, we really actually first need to look at understanding child sexual abuse. And at the moment, we've tried really hard to understand child sexual abuse from a victim, survivor's point of view. We're hearing a lot from our women. But there are two really important voices missing from that, and I think that's the voice of the offender and also the voice of our men. So we see silence at different levels in this korero, and I think there's been silence from our men. And we've seen that a lot on Facebook, saying, 'Where's our Maori male leadership here?' But I think part of that is about us not truly understanding how it happens, what we can do about it, but also how to talk about it. So there's all sorts` We can go straight to 'what we do about it', but I think the first thing we need to do is understand how to talk about it properly with one another. Can I ask you that question, then, Eugene? What's your suggestion for tane Maori to get this conversation going? I suppose for tane Maori there's this myth that you've gotta harden up and just handle whatever it is that's been dished out to you. One of the avenues that's been effective in supporting some of our men in this space is to be able to contact people that they trust that they know can have this conversation without it getting outside of that relationship. So, you know, when Nga Morehu were formed, we became a point of contact for a lot of the men that were either survivors or perpetrators in that space. So I suppose the difficulty is when we don't put ourselves out there and don't offer a helping shoulder, ear, hand, then there's really nothing that is openly available for people to have these conversations. We'll come back after the break and talk about rehabilitation and some of the options around there. Kia mau tonu mai ra te titiro ka haere tonu nga korero akuanei. Auraki mai ano ki Te Hui. We're discussing sexual abuse of tamariki with clinical psychologist Kiri Tamihere-Waititi, and two survivors of sexual abuse, now social workers and educators, Paora Moyle and Eugene Ryder. Tena koutou ano. Let's jump right back into it. Kiri, almost always people say that they know their abusers ` although in Pete's story there was one where it was a stranger to him ` so I guess how do we deal with the whole whanau when we're talking about abuse? I think we're gonna have to start investing quite heavily in primary prevention strategies. So what I mean by that is delivering education to our babies in primary school. That doesn't happen. What does that look like, just for an example? Yeah, so, um, what that would look like is teaching our babies about appropriate and inappropriate touch, how to identify different forms of abuse, and who they can go to for support. And actually, school systems are a really good place for that, cos outside of the immediate whanau, our teachers are the next best thing to our babies. So they play an important role in that. But it doesn't have to be with schools only. I think our Whanau Ora providers and our agencies that are providing programmes to our tamariki need to be talking about sexual abuse. And I think what I really liked about Pete's story was the terminology he used. So when he's using 'titoi' and things like that, that's masturbation. People don't like using those kupu. But te reo Maori really lightens things a little bit. So in terms of education packages to our tamariki, let's look at how we can teach our tamariki mo te tapu o te tinana, te manaaki to tinana, so it's a positive way of looking at it. That's really important. But I really do think we need community solutions and iwi and hapu solutions. We know what goes on behind closed doors, so we actually need to start being really brave and having a really good conversation about what we're gonna do about it. And normalising the language around sexual abuse is really important too. Let's talk about rehabilitation, because Pete was similar to you ` you never wanted revenge or go after anybody. How do we deal with offenders? Is jail the right place or do we have to have other solutions? I think the problem with the kupu rehabilitation is these people haven't been habilitated; so they haven't learnt the appropriate behaviours in those spaces. So... To start with our tamariki, our mokopuna is where we can make a generational change. Mm. But I think a conversation still needs to be had on the marae, on the paepae. Cos we all know who those people are. And sometimes a ring of protection goes around them when you start identifying them as the abusers of our mokopuna. So we've gotta stop that and look clearly at what we're doing. Because when people start protecting those that are abusing our tamariki, they're actually contributing to the abuse. And they don't realise that. They are protecting Uncle, protecting Dad. How do you get into there, though, Paora, when they are on the paepae or in positions of power? How do you even attempt to start the conversation? It's like, 'where do we start?' is really good. I think we need to start from multiple places. And first of all, we need victim/survivor-led responses. They're not pulling this out of their back pocket, they are putting their lives on the line and those of their family, their friends, their own reputation, to say, 'This is what happened to me. 'Let's do something about it.' So a multi-pronged support system looking at offenders, how to support them, and providing safe spaces for victims and survivors to drop names, to come to tell their stories. And in there, the solutions come from a place of care, absolute care and unconditional love, rather than with the finger pointing and the aggressive backlash and pushing it back further in denial. So we're not just talking about some people getting locked up. They're the few. We're talking about paedophilia as a movement. In terms of getting those survivors to come forward, is it a little bit about them not feeling like they're worthy enough? We had a discussion earlier about whether there was any inequality in abuse, you know ` is somebody's abuse more important than someone else's? Nobody's abuse is any more or less than anyone's. And so how do we`? It has differential impacts. And somebody who might be, um, come from a whanau who are not allowed` it's just not the norm to speak up might carry that all of their life. For example, myself, I could speak up, get knocked down, get back up again, because I knew that if I didn't that my brothers would be in the firing line. That Child Welfare ` then ` might do what they said and separate us, and they did exactly that. So as a child trying to speak up, there are consequences. And we're not just talking about abuse at home of children, we're talking about systemic abuses in state care, mm. We're out of time, but I just want to end and ask you a question ` anyone who's watching and is thinking of speaking up, any advice? Yeah, well, look, I'd hit Auntie Google up, first and foremost. There are a lot of supports out there ` ACC supports people who have been traumatised through sexual abuse. But I would actually look at going` (CLEARS THROAT) starting with your whanau, actually, and looking at if people that are close to you, those who have spoken out about that stuff in the past, just to start a conversation about where to from here. Ka pai. And also Nga Morehu is on the Facebook as well. Ae, Survivors. Kia ora. Tena tatou katoa. And if today's programme has made you want to talk to someone, some help numbers are on our screen now, and we'll pop those up on Facebook as well if we're too quick for you. Hei tera wiki i runga i a Te Hui ` 22-year-old Chozyn Koroheke was the apple of her father's eye. She was my princess; she was my baby; she was our only girl; she was the youngest. But in 2017 his princess was murdered in cold blood by her boyfriend of just a few months. The stuff that came out of his mouth when he hit the stand was unbelievable. 'The lies that came out of his mouth. 'He was so arrogant that he thought he could talk his way out of a murder charge.' The gun just went off. United by tragedy, Jason Koroheke has connected with the aunt of Marie Harlick, who was murdered by her partner, Robert Hohua, in 2017. It's just so wrong. I'm so sorry. I know exactly how you feel, Jason. Next week, a story about loss and hope. The support was overwhelming, so... I'm humbled by that now. Well, that's next week. Before we go, hei whakakapi i to tatou hotaka. We remember Daryl Ritchie Broughman, a survivor of abuse and neglect within state care. Daryl fought for better treatment of tamariki under the care of the state. E hoa kua waihotia o tapuwae ki te one o maumahara, e kore rawa e ukuia e te tai o wareware. Moe mai ra. Kati ra, kua hikina Te Hui mo tenei ra. Newshub Nation is next. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by Tracey Dawson. www.able.co.nz Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. Copyright Able 2018 ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui is made with support from New Zealand On Air.