Ko te whakaiti te whare o te whakaaro nui ` e whakaaro nui ana matou ki a koe Te Wharehuia. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e tangi atu nei, e mihi atu nei. Welcome to The Hui ` Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` The health system continues to fail Maori. Our people are dying, and they're dying in a way that really should be a catastrophe for this country. But one hapu has gone outside the system, getting private health insurance for all its members. Means the world, really, because they've given my wife and our children a dad back. Ngati Whatua Orakei are taking back the power. But is it letting the government off the hook? I think it's a wonderful idea. Really speaking, though, the government should be looking after our people. This is really about tino rangatiratanga. We have the choice here to take control of our health and wellness outcomes. And documenting the bloody birth of New Zealand ` Vincent O'Malley talks about his new work and the battle to have our history taught in schools. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 Karahuihui mai. It's no great secret; our health system continues to fail Maori, who have poorer health outcomes and die younger than our fellow New Zealanders. But one hapu is drawing a line in the sand. Ngati Whatua Orakei are providing private health insurance for all of its members. But should Maori have to look outside the system to seek equality of care? Anei te purongo a John Boynton. (SERENE MUSIC) JOHN BOYNTON: Ngati Whatua Orakei is on a multi-million-dollar journey to boost the hauora of its people. This is really about tino rangatiratanga. We have the choice here to take control of our health and wellness. But will more iwi and hapu be forced to look outside a public health system which is failing Maori? Hi, Moana. Hello. I'm Dr Raj. Come take a seat. Our people are dying, and they're dying in a way that really should be a catastrophe for this country. (CALM MUSIC) The waters of Okahu Bay in the Waitemata Harbour have long provided a way of life for Ngati Whatua Orakei. And the hapu is setting a new course to transform the health and well-being of its people. I think this is about tino rangatiratanga. We're trying to take control of our destiny. Tino rangatiratanga around health is about making your own health choices. The central Auckland hapu is part of an ever-growing iwi empire, with assets valued at more than $1 billion. MAN: Rua, toru, wha! Pukana! (GRUNTS) And last year, it invested almost $3 million in a three-year private health insurance scheme with providers NIB for all its people. Insurance is quite foreign. In terms of stats, Maori are sitting at` Less than 4% of the Maori population have private health insurance, so that stat on its own sort of tells us a bit of a story. Anahera Rawiri is leading the rollout of the scheme through Whai Rawa, the financial arm of the hapu. We've gone on this journey now for 12 months. So this is a significant investment that we've put into our whanau. It's an investment the hapu is making to remove the barriers around healthcare for its whanau. It's fairly well researched that Maori experience poorer health outcomes, bias and discrimination in the health system, as well as more practical barriers that exist at a real whanau level, which is cost, option, access. So through this partnership, we've been able to provide our whanau with more options so that they can take control of their own health. On average, Maori men are expected to live with a serious disability from the age of 54 ` almost 13 years earlier than non-Maori men,... men like father-of-three Nick Hawke, who's just had knee replacement surgery. I was privy to look at the costs, and it was $35,000 rounding it off. That took a lot of that financial stress out of it, so they were able to... to pay the total cost. I was walking within half an hour of me waking up after the operation, and that was after a full, total knee replacement. I was on crutches for three days, then I ditched the crutches. And then a couple of months later, I was actually playing touch with my son and my daughter in a family touch tournament. What do you think of your hapu investing in private health insurance for its people? It means the world, really, because they've given my wife and our children a dad back. Sarah Grey is the kaikaranga for her hapu. But three years ago, her vocal cords suffered major damage through heart surgery. They did tell me that there may be side effects,... and, uh, I didn't think it was going to be a side effect that I lost my voice. I was recuperating at the public hospital, and I could` I knew then, and I was... depressed. Yes, I was. But I kept getting told off by my oldest sister, 'Stop thinking about that. Think about getting better first. 'And then the karanga's the last thing on your mind.' It should be, but it wasn't. It was the first thing on my mind. (CALLS IN MAORI) But Sarah's voice is now on the mend after having thyroplasty surgery, and she's returned to her urupa to practise her karanga. The people down here inspire me, if you know what I mean. It's... their wairua, of course. And I just feel that... the feelings that you get. I personally know it's from all these people who are lying down here. Maybe I'm their mouthpiece. And I'm grateful. I'm grateful for that. (MAN CALLS IN MAORI, CHILDREN PERFORM HAKA) Anahera Rawiri is grateful the hapu can ensure change from kaumatua right through to its mokopuna. We're in an innovative space right now. We're very fortunate that we're able to provide this to our membership. And we're committed to providing this and doing it well. Have we been forced down here? If we want to really achieve the outcomes, health outcomes that we're after, there's very minimal options out there. This is one avenue that we can achieve that. Lady Tureiti Moxon is the managing director of the Maori health provider Te Kohao Health in Hamilton. She applauds the stance Ngati Whatua Orakei is taking. I think it's a wonderful idea. Really speaking, though, the government should be looking after our people. I don't know whether I want us to be like America, where everybody has to have insurance, because there are always gonna be people who are gonna miss out on that. We're not trying to let the Crown off the hook here, but our goal is to improve the health of our people. And so for us, investing in this partnership to provide other options for our whanau, you know, we see that as the ultimate outcome. In recent months, the Waitangi Tribunal's Health Services and Outcomes inquiry examined how Maori are failed by the health system. Lady Tureiti Moxon is a claimant on behalf of Maori Primary Health Organisations. We are very keen on our own legislation that sets us outside of the current health system, that actually gives us the ability and the power and the decision-making to` to create a system that's going to be supportive of us as Maori. On average, Maori are expected to live seven to eight years less than non-Maori, to die from cancer, heart disease and to develop diabetes. Tureiti Moxon says not enough is being done to close the gaps. Our people are dying, and they're dying in a way that really should be a catastrophe for this country. There should be this huge outcry that we are dying from preventable diseases. We are not getting diagnostic tests that we should be getting, treatment plans, and we're not getting serviced by tertiary and secondary health. (PEOPLE SING WAIATA) The Waitangi Tribunal will release its report into the health inquiry in July. And it's a report Tureiti Moxon says needs to be bold. I believe the system is broken. I believe it's not for Maori to go and fix it. I believe that we need to grow and develop ourselves. For Ngati Whatua Orakei, the hauora of its people now lies in its own hands. The public health system does have a role for all New Zealanders, and that includes us as Maori. But what we've been able to provide through this partnership takes away those barriers around access. And Anahera Rawiri believes the hapu is heading in the right direction. Our whanau now have the choice to be able to seek care without having that care dictated to them. Na John Boynton tera purongo. Kia mau tonu mai ra te titiro. Hei muri i nga whakatairanga ka korero ahau ki nga minita Maori ki a Peeni Henare raua ko Kelvin Davis. The government has committed $100 million for a radical new programme targeting our hardest criminals. The strategy will provide wrap-around services, including trauma and mental health treatment as well as housing and employment support to transform the lives of inmates. Joining me now is Corrections and Crown-Maori Minister Kelvin Davis and Whanau Ora Minister Peeni Henare. Tena korua. Kia ora. Tena koe. You talked about a Maori prison. Is this the next best thing? Uh, this is a start. Both Peeni and I, we came into politics to make a difference for our people. We know that the incarceration rates of Maori are totally unacceptable and unsustainable, and we're... what I'm proposing here with the Maori Pathway Through Prison is a system change. It's not tinkering around the edges. The great thing about it is it's about Maori and Corrections working together to develop the solutions for our people. We know that the system we have now hasn't worked for our people, and we've gotta do something radically different. And so the Maori Pathways, where Corrections, Whanau Ora and MSD are working together as part of our Wellbeing Budget, is the start of the solution. Have you got any targets? I know that it's very early days, but have you got some kind of wawata that you want to hit a certain number? Mm. The ultimate target is zero Maori in prison. The sort of next 'best', if you can put it like that, is, uh, for the number of Maori in prison to represent the Maori population outside, which is around 15%. Um, but we're chasing down 30% reduction over 15 years, uh, and addressing Maori in prison is integral to reducing that... to achieving that target. So, Peeni, three ministries are involved in this; it's a collaboration, if you like. Yes. Uh, $98 million. Where does the funding come from, and how will it be spent? Uh, well, that's part of the co-design that Kelvin's already spoken about, and that's the beauty of this opportunity ` to be brave for the Minister for Corrections and such a hardened institution like Corrections to consider different ways to do it. And if we are to not only address the numbers in prison, we must also remember that it affects numbers outside of prison. For example, approximately 23,000 tamariki have a mother or father in prison, or both. And if we wanna break that cycle, we've gotta work with the families as well. So the $98 million is coming from, you know, across the three ministries? Yeah, that's right. $22 million from Whanau Ora, a couple of million from MSD and the rest from Corrections. And the beauty about it is, look, Corrections can't do this on our own. Whanau Ora can't do this on their own. MSD under Carmel Sepuloni can't do this on their own. That's why, under the Wellbeing Budget, we're coming together, the three agencies, pooling our resource and our expertise and working with Maori to develop the solutions. And that's the critical part, because as I went around last year in my engagement hui to establish Te Arawhiti, Maori told us over and over again, 'Stop telling us we're the problem and then coming out and telling us 'how we are going to solve the problem for you.' They said, 'Involve us in the solution development...' So co-design? Yes. Co-design. So Maori will co-design this. Any idea of who you'll be working with? Will it be iwi? Will it be community groups, Whanau Ora groups, those kinds of things? Well, all of the above. So, up north, you know, there's gonna be a solution in the Ngawha prison, and in Hawke's Bay, there'll be a Ngati Kahungunu-developed solution there. And what works up in Ngawha might not be the solution that Ngati Kahungunu want. So we're not going with` and saying, 'This is gonna work; one size fits all.' We're sick of that as Maori. We know. We're saying, 'OK, Tai Tokerau iwi ` Ngati Rangi,' who are the mana whenua there, 'tell us how` what we need to do and how we can work together,' and Ngati Kahungunu will tell us the same down in Hawke's Bay. So, if you have a 25-year-old Maori male who's serving a long prison service for grievous bodily harm and maybe some drug charges, and he's doing a long lag, how will this service work with him individually? Any ideas? Well, I can give you an example. When I visited Hawke's Bay Prison last year, we went into this unit, and we had a rousing haka and powhiri, um, speeches. We had a kai together. And I sat down with them, and I said, 'Tell me about this unit you're in.' They said, 'Oh, look, we're connecting with our reo 'for the first time, our culture for the first time, tikanga. 'We're learning to karakia,' and things like that. And I said, 'Oh, that's great.' And they said, 'Well, there's one problem, though.' I said, 'What's that?' They said, 'It only goes for 13 weeks.' So for 13 weeks in that unit, and then five years in general population, where the things that they've learnt in that unit have dissipated and lost their effectiveness. Or the whanau has no idea what the` What they're going through. Well, that's right. And it was a lightbulb moment for me. I said, 'Well, if we can do this for 13 weeks, why can't we do it for five years, 'or for the whole time a person's in prison?' And we should be reaching further in. Now, we've made it really really hard for whanau to be engaged in rehabilitation, and yet we know that whanau involvement in rehabilitation is essential. So prisoners are leaving; they're going back home. They've made these positive changes inside prisons; they're strangers to their whanau, because they've` and they fall back into the old habits. And that's why we need whanau to be a part of this situation, which is why Whanau Ora is an essential part. Also from Te Tai Tokerau as well, Peeni. And when Ngawha Prison was built, you know, the community says that they were promised a whole lot of things that didn't happen. Yes. How can... You know, tell us what you... What would be your dream end, um, for people living in that community at Kaikohe? Uh, to be far more connected with the institution that houses or that incarcerates our people. That's always been the dream of the people that were there when the kaupapa was initiated under the likes of Bishop Ben Te Haara. So I think it's a fantastic way forward. Let's acknowledge too that while Ngawha and Ngati Rangi run the show there, if you like, a lot of the prisoners there come from Tamaki Makaurau, have mixed heritage of Ngapuhi, Ngati Whatua, a whole heap of tribes. So we look forward to working through that development of this kaupapa with those tribes. I wanna` Because I've got you here ` two Maori ministers ` I wanna just touch on the issue around Oranga Tamariki and the allegations of uplifting tamariki from the birthing suite by, you know, someone that you work with, actually, on one of your panels ` Jean Te Huia, who's a midwife. How is it that you can work so collaboratively with iwi ` and we're talking about the same iwi, cos it's Ngati Kahungunu ` and Oranga Tamariki can blatantly ignore them? Well, I think the model that we're establishing through the Maori Pathways Through Prison is the model that other agencies need to start looking at, instead of going out and saying, 'This is the way we're gonna` This is what we're going to do to you.' Tell us what you want, what your goals and ambitions are. And how do we, as Maori members in government, pull the levers of government to support Maori to achieve their aspirations? I guess the point is you are funnelling them in through the pipeline. We know the cohort of these babies when they're taken from their families; they have a higher chance of ending up in youth institutions and then into prisons. So while you're fixing, you know, $98 million at this end, we've got this issue down here where, under your government, 2015 ` 110 Maori babies uplifted at birth. 2018 ` 172. That's a 50% rise. What's going on? Yeah, and that's what I'm saying is that we need to work with Maori instead of saying to Maori, 'This is what we're going to do.' There are significant challenges there. We're under no illusion with that. And I take Kelvin's point that if a rigid system like Corrections can do this kind of a kaupapa that we're discussing today, there is no reason why Oranga Tamariki couldn't. My question is ` are they failing? Because in the time that they've been there, two years, they've managed to have meetings with three iwi. That's it. There's hundreds of iwi. Why haven't they done better? Well, I think the whole system has been failing, because we haven't been listening to Maori, and that's why we have over 50% of the people in our prisons are Maori. The Children's Commission this morning says, 'As a first principle, 'the practice of Oranga Tamariki must support all children to remain with their whanau and family.' That's not happening in this government. As two` It hasn't been happening for many governments. That is true. That is true. Matua Whangai and Puao-te-ata-tu said that. But as two Maori ministers at the table, what can you say to those mums who are out there fretting ` they're about to give birth in 10 weeks or so. What do you say to them and their families? How can you help them and protect them? We can say that, as Maori ministers in this government, that we will work within the government to try and change and support people rather than punish people. It's essential for the future of Maoridom that we use the influence we have and the time we have in government to make these positive changes, these systemic changes for our people. That's what our people are demanding of us. That's why they put us into government, and that's what we're trying to do is make` not tinker around the edges, but make systemic changes for the benefit of all Maoridom. As Whanau Ora minister, I'm interested, because Whanau Ora and Oranga Tamariki would seem that they would walk hand-in-hand. How often do you meet with Grainne Moss, the CEO? Uh, I see her quite regularly, and also with Minister Martin. But to... And what do you say to her about those numbers? Oh, happy to push the kaupapa ` there's no shadow of a doubt about that. Happy to push this kaupapa with the minister directly. That's not a problem; that's the easy part. How we make the systematic change is actually the bigger challenge. And, you know, when we did the Whanau Ora review, most Whanau Ora providers, agencies and whanau actually say that government agencies are missing at the table in these discussions, which is why this kaupapa with Corrections and MSD is all-important. Um, but that's still a constant challenge for us is to actually get government agencies to discuss these kinds of initiatives and to work a different way forward. One would've thought that that comes under your role as Crown-Maori, when things don't seem to be going as they're meant to be on track, like actually protecting Maori whanau and keeping babies with their whanau. Is that something that you will give your word to our whanau Maori that you'll look into? That's exactly what Te Arawhiti is about is to work with government agencies, ministries, departments to change the way that they work with Maori so that we are actually supporting Maori. That's entirely what Te Arawhiti is about. Ka pai. We will come back to you and see how you're going in the next little while. Tena korua. Kia ora. Tena koe. A ko ake nei ka korero ahau ki te matanga hitori, ki a Vincent O'Malley. Auraki mai ano. The New Zealand Wars Nga Pakanga o Aotearoa is historian Vincent O'Malley's latest book on the bloody birth of New Zealand. It describes the causes, events and consequences of those conflicts. This Friday, O'Malley will deliver the Michael King Memorial Lecture. I korero au ki a ia mo tana pukapuka hou. What do you think is the greatest misunderstanding about the New Zealand Wars? Well, I think, historically, it would be this idea that the wars were a result of Maori rebelling against the Crown's authority, which wasn't the case at all. These wars were premeditated wars of conquest and invasion on the Crown's part, and, you know, Maori in Waikato and Taranaki and elsewhere are really fighting for their lives and their homes against their will. These aren't wars that they entered into of their own free will. They're basically fighting to defend themselves. As an academic and historian, you know so many of the facts of the story or the history, but actually going and visiting ` does the connection to the land and the places fulfil the history for you? I think visiting those sites brings the history alive in a very real way, and to stand somewhere like Orakau and the scene that happened there in 1864 sort of unfolds before your eyes, and you get a real sense of the tragedy of that place and what happened there. And you can't get that simply from reading documents or books. You need to engage with those places and take in the landscape. And that's why looking after the sites is really important today. So, as the story comes alive in your mind in front of you, what is the rest of the town and the community doing? Do they know about it? I think often they don't, and my sense is a lot of New Zealanders would drive by these sites every day and not even be aware that they're there, often because they're not marked in any way. You know, we need to make these places much more accessible for people, and there are a lot of ways you can do that ` obviously through signposts, but also through apps and through other sorts of things that can bring alive that history for people as well. So many of us learnt nothing of this history at school, so I think we need to break that intergenerational cycle of violence in whatever way it takes. Tell me more about that intergenerational cycle of violence. Can you explain that a little bit more? Well, I think, as I say, we just didn't learn this history at school or, for those who did, kinda learnt a really warped version of that history. For a lot of the 20th century, Pakeha had this idea that the New Zealand Wars were these chivalrous and noble conflicts where Maori and Pakeha fought against one another, and then they settled down and became the best of friends and lived happily ever after. And that wasn't a narrative that Maori shared. So, you know, Pakeha are turning up at places like Orakau to celebrate the anniversary of that conflict, and Maori are not there. Why would they celebrate the event where their ancestors were killed, their lands were taken from them and generations of people condemned to lives of poverty? So there's this kind of real disparity in the way the Wars are remembered and forgotten. I think the challenge today is to find new ways to engage with those narratives. And obviously learning about the history in schools is incredibly important. And I think the thing is young people themselves are actually calling for that. Rangatahi want to know this history, and it just seems to be the adults that are holding them back. Because I think school needs to be a place that doesn't just prepare a young person for work but also prepares them to live in our country. And part of that is understanding the history of the land that you live in, you grow up in. But also, I think it's important, because to have real reconciliation and healing, you have to have dialogue, and dialogue requires understanding, and it requires mutual engagement. And so if Pakeha are not engaging with this history, that can't happen. So that's why I think it's really important that we learn this history, we acknowledge it, and that is part of the healing process. You've been fortunate to travel the country with Te Putake o te Riri, working with teachers and students. How impressed are you with our rangatahi? I'm blown away by the rangatahi. I think they're doing lots of incredible things today. You know, when I go to schools and talk about this history, young people really get why it matters to them and their communities, and they're really keen to learn about it. And they also asked me some incredibly tough questions as well, really challenging, and I think that's great that they engage with this history so carefully and so thoughtfully. And I think they're sort of comfortably bicultural and accepting of diversity and difference in a way that puts a lot of adults to shame. And so I think we should let our young rangatahi take the lead on this, because they really have a sense of the kind of country that they wanna grow up in; it's one that doesn't turn its back on its own history. And Vincent's book is available to order online from Bridget Williams Books. We'll post a link on our page. Heoi ano kua hikina te hui mo tenei ra. Before we leave today, The Hui wishes to acknowledge the passing of Professor James Te Wharehuia Milroy. Kei te waka huia o to tatou reo rangatira, okioki mai ra. Anei etahi whakaahua na Te Rawhitiroa Bosch i hopu. (GENTLE COUNTRY MUSIC) (GENTLE COUNTRY MUSIC CONTINUES) (GENTLE COUNTRY MUSIC CONTINUES) (GENTLE COUNTRY MUSIC CONTINUES) www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui is made with support from NZ On Air.