Ko te here o te aikiha e taea te wetewete ko te here o te aroha he mau roa e toimaha i rukiruki, te tinana, te aroha kore rawa i tukika, te toimaha e. E te papa tekau ma wha moe mai ra. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e tangi atu nei, e mihi atu nei. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` It's Aotearoa's oldest property claim. I've been around it for the last 40 years, so it's been a long journey for me. But a groundbreaking court decision could be a game changer for Maori. It was quite an amazing, surreal morning, being told that we've won our case. They may have won the battle, but they haven't won the war; the government dragging its heels to come to the table. It's quite simple. Just give us the land and we'll go away tomorrow. We look at the fight for Wakatu. And spoken word artist Antonio Te Maioha pours the tea on 200 years of colonisation. # ...you mined our culture. You mind your... # Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 Karahuihui mai. The government is being accused of dragging its heels despite the finding of the country's highest court over a land claim in Nelson. In a groundbreaking decision, the Supreme Court held that the Crown has duties and obligations to a Nelson hapu like those of a trustee, and has declared the hapu's claim can continue in the High Court. Most claims of this nature are held by the Waitangi Tribunal, so the Supreme Court's decision raises the question of whether this sets a precedent for other Maori ropu. Now the hapu behind the court proceedings has accused the government of refusing to meet kanohi ki te kanohi to resolve the outstanding claim. It's the nation's oldest property claim. I've been around it for the last 40 years, so it's been a long journey. Now a groundbreaking court decision finds in favour of Maori. It was quite an amazing, surreal morning being told that we'd won our case. So why is the government refusing to act quickly to remedy the situation? It's quite simple. Just give us the land and we'll go away tomorrow. Nelson was established in 1841, a year after the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, making this place the oldest city in the South Island. From 1841, thousands of new European immigrants were beginning to arrive here in Aotearoa with the promise of a new life and land. So a land purchasing company set up by the Wakefield brothers called the New Zealand Company set about acquiring land from local Maori. The New Zealand Company had struck a deal ` 150,000 acres. And the deal would be done based on its principles that all land would be purchased from Maori land owners, and 10% of that land purchased for Europeans would be set aside for the future generations of Maori. The other part of the deal was that Maori would continue to own their wahi tapu, their cultivations and their marae. (PIANO MUSIC) One of those cultivations is now known by locals as Nelson's Queen's Gardens, which, under the 1841 deal, should have been protected. I'm here catching up with the local iwi chief executive, Wakatu Incorporation's Kerensa Johnson. What do you think the motivation of your tupuna was? Well, I think at that time we were, um... in the majority. We held the balance of power here in Te Tau Ihu. So in terms of our ownership of our land, our political and our economic authority and so on, we were firmly in place. And I think we were really excited about the opportunity that the settlement could bring to our families. Those early settlers who were arriving were dependent on our whanau for survival. So we were trading with them, we were supplying them with food, we were showing them where the water sources were. And, you know, quite frankly, in those early years, if it hadn't been for that support, they simply wouldn't have survived here in Nelson. But within a couple of years, Maori found themselves outnumbered. Hundreds of settlers start arriving after 1843. The ships were coming thick and fast. Certainly by about 1847, that balance of power was shifting between us and the settlers who were coming to Nelson. With the generosity of local Maori, thousands of settlers thrived and set up homes on sections carved up from the 150,000 acres acquired. But much of the 15,000 acres to be held in trust for Maori never eventuated. The plan was premised on the basis that those lands would be leased or rented to others, and that we would have the benefit of the income from that estate. Many of the 15,000 sections allocated for Maori were situated outside of Nelson, in Motueka and Golden Bay. But here in the city, a selection of prime real estate was set aside specifically for Nelson whanau. There were 100 one-acre sections allocated. By 1847, that had been reduced to half. Why were they reduced? Well, by 1847 it was clear, really, that the New Zealand Company and the Crown were facing this problem of more settlers coming, wanting to settle here in Nelson. And so a decision was made by the Crown trustee at that time to remove 53 sections from the town allocation and make those available to the settlers. As a descendent, 80-year-old kaumatua Rore Stafford would have inherited lands and income had the deal been honoured by the New Zealand Company and the Crown all those years ago. And I felt we've been kind of ripped off. While he's a farmer by day, Rore is also one of the lead claimants in a decade-long case against the Crown which argues the government still has a responsibility today. We went through this tribunal process cos we believe that we didn't get all the lands that were supposed to be set aside in a legal-type deal. But the former National Government refused to deal with the claim through the Waitangi Tribunal. The whanau had to find a different legal avenue. So if it's not a Treaty claim, what is it? This is a private-law case based on trust law, in a nutshell. So just consider the Crown a trustee and consider us the beneficiaries of a trust. And if you take that argument, just apply the law of trusts, which has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years, to our situation. And so that's how we progressed ` very much a private-law argument rather than a Treaty of Waitangi claim. So was the government surprised by your approach? What they argued in the High Court essentially was that we had no standing, we had no right to be before the courts, that these were all political discussions and therefore the correct forum to resolve them was the Waitangi Tribunal process. We weren't critical of the Waitangi Tribunal process. But at the same time, we should be allowed our day in court. So we didn't accept the argument that we were somehow not entitled to be before the courts. We simply kept saying to the court, 'Just apply the law to us 'in the same way as you would to anyone else.' Two years ago, the Supreme Court reached a decision. We were called to a meeting and sat down, and then the judges came in. It was very quick. They just came out and just read their findings. And basically, just went out and left us there, all stunned. So... The highest court in the land had found in favour for Rore and his whanau. Whakatu Incorporation's chairman Paul Morgan. It was quite an amazing, surreal morning before the court, being told that we'd effectively won our case. I felt, personally, that we were always gonna win. I believed we would win. But it's another thing being told you've prevailed. The Supreme Court declared that the Crown owed fiduciary duties to reserve the land for the customary land owners. It sent the case back to the High Court to determine whether the Crown has breached it duties and what was the loss suffered by those that Rore represents. Following the decision, the Maori owners suggested an out-of-court negotiation kanohi ki te kanohi. And late last year, the Attorney-General, David Parker, invited Rore Stafford to submit a settlement proposal ` which he did. And he suggested... I don't want to be nasty, but just deal with us. You know, it cost us a lot of money to go through a Supreme Court. My way of thinking, it's quite a simple thing. Just give us our land back and we'll go away. Paul Morgan agrees. He believes the government has a moral obligation to sit down and reach an agreement over compensation. It's been two years now. But the first year, they effectively walked around trying to work out how they could respond. Cos, you know, they shouldn't have lost, according to them. Are they bad losers? They're very bad losers. After submitting their proposal, all communications went silent until just recently, when The Hui began to inquire. The Attorney-General, David Parker, has since responded to their proposal, but it's been met with disappointment. He said... The minister has invited Rore Stafford to submit a proposal again, but he warns if it's not tenable, the Crown will continue to defend its claim in court. The whanau has sent letters to the Crown Maori minister, Kelvin Davis, and the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, quoting their Waitangi commitment and asking them to intervene. In the meantime, Wakatu is doing a stocktake of what Crown land could be returned, including the airport. I mean, obviously Nelson Airport's of interest because it's a commercial operation and there's still potential to develop the land. They want a moratorium on any Crown land sales immediately. We're in, as you say, a holding pattern. In the meantime, we've got the risk where the Crown may sell land. And to me, there's a lack of ethics and a lack of morality about that approach because the Crown clearly has got the authority, whether it's Crown land or Crown entity land. The law's quite clear; they could put a moratorium on all land sales. Strolling down Nelson's South Street, one of the town's oldest, is a reminder of where this claim all began. These cottages here were mainly the cottages of local tradesmen. So working-class settlers that had come to Nelson. What do you think this claim will mean for the people of Nelson? I'm really hopeful, actually, that they'll see that as a really positive outcome for our region. It's an opportunity for the Crown to restore its mana with respect to the relationship it has with our families. As an incorporation and as the whanau and hapu of this place, we've made a huge contribution over time, and I think that that's only going to continue. As a former public lawyer, Kerensa Johnson knows the wheels of justice turn painfully slow. But her whanau have waited 170 years already. And as her Uncle Rore says, they're determined to see it through to the end. We won't be going away, that's for sure, yeah. I have a job to do, and I have to finish it. Mm. We asked the Attorney-General David Parker to be interviewed for this story, but he declined, saying that the matter is still before the court. He denies the government is ignoring Mr Stafford in relation to the claim, and says the time taken for each step is not unusual in the context of such litigation. After the break, I speak with Coalition New Zealand's campaign manager. A new political party promising New Zealand values was launched this week, ready to contest the next election. Its leader, Hannah Tamaki, once ran for the top job at the Maori Women's Welfare League but came off second best. Tamaki is, of course, the wife of Brian Tamaki, the self-appointed bishop of Destiny Church. This week she fielded questions about everything from abortion to euthanasia. And while she might be new to the political scene, the Coalition New Zealand Party's campaign manager isn't. Jevan Goulter was formerly involved in both the Mana Party and the Labour Party, and he joins me now. Tena koe. Kia ora, Mihi. Straight into it, then. Are you standing? (LAUGHS) Well, firstly I was gonna say I don't think Labour will want you telling everybody that I used to be involved with them. But no, look, candidates are still being discussed at the moment. It's obviously come together very quickly. And I think that we'll have some exciting announcements soon, but I wouldn't want to pre-empt too many of them. Are you ruling it out, though? Ruling...? ...that you're standing. Ruling that I'm standing? Are you ruling it out? Ruling it out? Oh, nothing's in or out at the moment. At the moment we're focusing on strategy. We're, I think, four days old. But I think people want to know who might be in the party. So if you're not ruling it out, is there a possibility that you might stand? If Winston Peters tells us if he's standing at the next election, come back and ask me and I'll tell you who we've got. Ka pai. That is fair enough. You understand politics. As you say, you're gonna need either the 5% or an electorate seat. What do you think's easiest? I think you have to focus on both of them as parallel strategies, actually. I don't think you can pick one or the other, or one over the other. I think it's an interesting time at the moment, when you have a look at what's happening with Alfred Ngaro in the National Party. You have a look at the other parties that are sitting around the edge. What do you think about Alfred Ngaro ` an actual sitting MP inside of a party and publically talking about leaving? I don't want to comment on what he's thinking of doing, but what I would say is our philosophy is in our name ` Coalition New Zealand. So if there is a space out there for a group of people to work together, actually that makes it a lot easier to reach that 5%. Do you like his politics, though, Alfred Ngaro? I have nothing to say about his politics. I think he's been in for eight and a half years. OK, let's look at electorates that you might look at. Which ones do you think are gonna be difficult for either Labour or National to win back? Not that I so much think they'll be more difficult than any other seats in particular, but I think what we want to look at doing is saying to Labour that, 'you've taken the Maori mandate, 'so to speak, at the last election,' and you'll probably know how many MPs they've got in the Labour Party. I don't know because I never hear from any of them, so it's hard to do a head count. They absolutely do have the mandate of Maori. So which ones of those seven do you think that Coalition New Zealand might have a go at? I think the obvious one that I'd sit here now and say on record is that, um, Kelvin Davis is not safe in his seat. We are certainly looking at that one. And I think that's actually because` Why do you think he's not safe? I think he's been disappointing in the roles that he's been given. My understanding is the Tourism Board don't want him, as part of his Tourism portfolio; his Corrections portfolio, I think we've seen what's been going on there. So I think people in the Far North are coming to terms with the fact that, 'Actually we had a really strong person in Opposition, and now we've seen nothing.' For the first time, though, he's reduced prison numbers. That's got to be something for the north, as you know, one of the poorest iwi in the country. Those numbers actually went back up in the latest stats that came out. They went down, and then they've come back up. I actually don't agree with using that statement when you're transferring more people into home sentencing, sentencing at home. I don't really think that's an achievement, when you move numbers from one list to another to satisfy` or announce some sort of success. So you're thinking that Te Tai Tokerau is a seat that's kind of on the edge; Kelvin Davis hasn't done enough, you say. Who would you put in there? Whether it's on the edge or not, I don't want to sit here and get overly confident about what we're going to do. Who would you put in there? Who would I put in there? I'd put a lot of people in there. But it's gotta be somebody from` Would you put yourself in there? Oh, absolutely not. I'm a campaign manager; it's my job to support candidates. Would you stand in a Maori seat? Would I stand in a Maori seat? If you did make a decision to stand, would you stand in a Maori seat? I love this line about whether I'm going to stand or not. I think it's quite exciting. It's just that you didn't rule it out, so. I didn't rule it in either, though. So it's not out. It's not out or in. But would ou stand in a Maori seat? What do you think it takes for somebody to stand in a Maori seat? The sort of Maori candidates I like ` as the one's that I've worked with in the past ` are Maori that have a mana and are courageous and not afraid to forge a pathway forward and actually put their values of tikanga and things in front of party values. And so I don't think we are seeing any of those MPs in the Maori seats at the moment. So those will be the sort of candidates that I'll be looking at to run in those seats. Do you think anyone in your current party, the Coalition New Zealand Party,... Our four-day old party? Yeah, your four-day-old party. Do you think any of those people are able to sit in a Maori seat? Oh, absolutely. I mean, Maori like fierce leaders, and there's no doubt that Coalition New Zealand has some fierce Maori leaders in it already. So you think that it's possible that Hannah Tamaki or a Brian Tamaki could sit in a Maori seat? I think I haven't had that discussion with them, to be honest. But you'd back them for a Maori seat? If I sat down with them and that was something that Hannah, as the leader of Coalition New Zealand, wanted to do, I would absolutely back her on that. So no talk of policies yet. There's been a few interviews with Hannah Tamaki, and she doesn't want to talk policy. She said that it's too early. What about issues? What are some of the issues that are important to you? Important to me or important to the party? To the party, to you, to the party. So, Anne Williamson is the party secretary. That's something that the party, when it comes together, will formulate what are the key priorities for them. I actually think what's more important is looking at the reason why we have been created. I mean, it was a party that was born out of frustration. And it was frustration at the fact that the policies that, say, the Labour Party campaigned on actually have not come to fruition. So what are those policies? Cos obviously those are gonna be the issues that concern you. Labour, for example, campaigned on housing. And we have 75 homes built of their 10,000 homes a year. We have a prime minister who's off at every global summit doing great things. But I don't really want to hear about those things, and I don't think a lot of New Zealanders do either. I think we want to see, when we walk down the street, there's less people on it than there were before. And I don't think she can claim those sorts of successes yet. So when you look at a party, though, you have to have faith that the party is all together. And so you would have heard some of the criticism in the last few days about... about marriage equality, about abortion, about euthanasia and all those kinds of things. Does it matter that`? What were the criticisms? Well, Hannah Tamaki was debating those issues. So marriage equality, she was quite clear on the fact that she wouldn't repeal that when she was asked once, when she gave her first speech. So she was talking about abortion; I'll take that for an example. And she would like to have no abortion in this country. I think what she was meaning is that she would keep it underneath the Crimes Act and not... What's your thoughts on that? My thoughts are when you create those sorts of laws and policies, it's really important to go out to the public and have a proper discussion with them. One of the things that we see that do go wrong is pushing through bad law. And so I think it's about pushing through law that is well thought through. She's been asked about her position ` both of them have ` about gay people as well. And you are openly gay` I am. ...so how does that sit with you? How does what sit with me? The fact that they think that to be gay is a sin. I think that a lot of people in New Zealand think that a lot of different things are sins. But I'll tell you one thing about Hannah and her husband ` that we have endured an eight-year relationship, eight-year friendship. Very close friendship, actually, where I have never once felt that anything that they may have thought about that is condescending towards myself ` and vice versa. I think when you go through life, you've got to` What do you think other gay and homosexual women and men might think, who don't have that same relationship with them? How would they vote for a party who thinks that what they do is a sin? I got a message yesterday from two Maori men in a same-sex rela` Do you think it's a problem, though? ...tionship, who were very excited by the fact that Hannah had come out as the leader of it. They sort of made note of, 'There's a lot of us out there that actually get silenced 'in the LGBTQI+ whole alphabet community. We get silenced in it 'purely because within the gay community there is racism and discrimination as well.' So there's a big voice out there that don't actually get heard. So no issue for you. Just give us an idea of timing. When might we hear a name or an electorate or a policy? A name or an electorate or a policy. Well, I think you can hear more about the question you were just asking about next Saturday at their conference. Brian Tamaki is holding, as part of his Saturday night, uh... sort of meeting, so to speak, with members from the LGBTQ community. And it's about forging a new relationship going forward. That will be interesting. We'll be listening for that. Tena koe. Thank you for coming on this morning. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Kia ora. E kainamu mai nei, he tao kupu ka whakarerea e Antonio Te Maioha. Auraki mai ano. October will be 250 years since Captain Cook first visited Aotearoa. To mark the occasion, the government is spending more than $20 million on events around the country. But for many Maori, Cook's arrival is no cause for celebration. Spoken word artist Antonio Te Maioha has been reflecting on what those encounters and 200 years of colonisation has meant for Maori. Anei tana ruri. (DOWNBEAT MUSIC) 200 years. 200 years us Maoris put up with all the shit they've thrown at us ` and survived. Hey, Maoris. Beautiful. (MUSICAL BEAT STRENGTHENS) RAPS: Beautiful you & beautiful we. Never doubt your power, ha! my Maori! Hi! 200 years of absolutely all the oppression of the English monarchy and their lackeys, the governing bodies, down through the generations to the John Keys. You brought your filth, your gifts of disease. You were seasick then with your bleedin' STDs. They reckon you needed 'More Vitamin C!' So you Vitamin seized everything you could see! What you really needed was some Vitamin T. What? T for 'turn your boat around and go Hawaii'. It's getting late and we promised them a feed. Yet despite your sickness and all your greed, take a good long look at us ` Hika! Please! Glorious! Stunning! Ka mau te wehi! Beautiful you and you and you, and even beautiful me. Never doubt the power of the smiling Maori. It's a stake in their heart-less-ness. Yes! 200 years. 200 years. We survived all you got for 200 years. Smile, sister, shine. You are the real queens. Smile, brothers, shine and stand by our green... stone sisters, mothers and daughters too. Smile, Maori, shine, cos every time you do it's a thorn in their side, a brand on their hide. Ow! The fact that we all just have not died! 200 years of surviving the holy-holocaustal habits of church, queen and king, the lecherous leviathan of colonising. Started on their doorstep with the working class ` ka-ching! Abuse of their own with their crooked taxing! If you, like me, got English blood, no need for cringing. 'They screwed you first,' is what I'm saying! These royals, well oiled, with Wales where they started practising. Scotland, Ireland and advancing to anywhere and anyone in between ` Canada, Bahamas, Jamaica. Sierra Leone, half of Africa. Cyprus, Malta, Santa Lucia. India, ya know, and-a South-East Asia! Kiribati, Vanuatu, Samoa Fiji, Tuvalu, on to Tonga. Dream Land, aka Australia, all the way here to Aotearoa! Your commonwealth legacy of shame goes on and on. It's 53 effin' countries long. By the time you got here your bad medicine was strong. You were drunk on your very own prescription of self-entitlement and wrong upon wrong. Mine! Mine! Mine! You mined our health, you mined our culture. You mind your manners, you ... vulture. You mined our language, our resources. You mine our ocean ` home, land and seas. You call it Commonwealth, but Queen Lizzy, please! Why you the only one who's uncommonly wealthy? Blame it on the doctrine of discovery. 200 years. 200 years. We survived all you got for 200 years. Beautiful Mao and beautiful Ri. Beautiful indigeneity. Beau... tiful. Tino kerewa. Kua hikina Te Hui mo tenei ra. You'll find links to our stories on our Facebook and Twitter accounts, or on newshub.co.nz Newshub Nation is next. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by Tracey Dawson. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui is made with support from New Zealand On Air.