CAPTIONS BY CATHERINE DE CHALAIN AND ANTONY VLUG. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2019 KIA ORA. GOOD EVENING. WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M JACK TAME. A LONG AWAITED REPORT IS EXPECTED TO RECOMMEND KIWI FARMERS START PAYING FOR SOME OF THEIR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. THIS WOULD BE HUGE. BUT CAN CLIMATE CHANGE MINISTER JAMES SHAW CONVINCE FARMERS TO GET ON BOARD? SNAIL MAIL ISN'T SO POPULAR THESE DAYS, BUT WITH FEWER POST BOXES AROUND, WHENA OWEN HAS DISCOVERED A BIG PROBLEM FOR THE UPCOMING COUNCIL ELECTIONS. WE'VE ONLY GOT TWO BOXES. WELL, THREE BUT WE CAN'T FIND IT. SOUNDS LIKE THEY DON'T WANT US TO VOTE, BRO. YEARS OF UNDER INVESTMENT HAS LEFT OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AT CRISIS POINT ACCORDING TO THE PRIME MINISTER'S OWN BUSINESS ADVISORS. AND IN A CANDID INTERVIEW TONIGHT, INFRASTRUCTURE MINISTER SHANE JONES ADMITS IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. FOR A LONG TIME, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT AND PROCESSED OURSELVES INTO PARALYSIS, AND WE'VE GOT TO GET ON WITH BUILDING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, RATHER THAN WRITING MORE REPORTS ABOUT IT. AND SO HERE WE ARE. TO THINK, 24 HOURS AGO WE WERE COLLECTIVELY GATHERING TO WATCH WHAT WE HOPED WOULD BE THE BLACKCAPS' CROWNING GLORY. SO FULL OF HOPE. PLUMP WITH OPTIMISM. ALAS, SPORT CAN BE CRUEL. BUT IF YOU THOUGHT THE CRICKET WAS THE END OF THE WORLD, OUR FIRST GUEST THIS EVENING HAS NEWS FOR YOU. CLIMATE CHANGE MINISTER JAMES SHAW IS SET TO RELEASE THE CLIMATE CHANGE COMMITTEE'S LONG AWAITED RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AGRICULTURE IN THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME. MINISTER JAMES SHAW, TENA KOE, WELCOME TO Q+A. CAN YOU JUST GIVE US A BIT OF BACKGROUND HERE? WHAT IS BEING RELEASED TOMORROW AND HOW IMPORTANT IS IT? YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ZERO CARBON BELL THAT IS CURRENTLY WAITING ITS WAY THROUGH PARLIAMENT. JUST OVER A YEAR AGO THE GOVERNMENT SAID THAT WE CANNOT AFFORD TO WAIT FOR THAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION. THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE PROGRESS ON ON ONE OF THOSE THINGS IS 100% RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY GENERATION AND THE OTHER IS AGRICULTURAL EMISSIONS. TOMORROW WE ARE RELEASING BOTH THOSE REPORTS AND THE GOVERNMENT'S PROPOSED RESPONSE FOR PUBLIC FEEDBACK. WHAT WILL FARMERS FIND OUT TOMORROW? THEY WILL FIND OUT WHAT THE INTERIM CLIMATE CHANGE COMMITTEE HAS RECOMMENDED. WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO DO IN RESPONSE AND WHAT SOME OF THE FARMING LEADERS THAT THEIR ORGANISATIONS REPRESENT HAVE GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT. A BIG PART OF THIS IS THE ETS, THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME, AND WHETHER OR NOT AGRICULTURE WOULD BE COVERED IN THAT SCHEME. IF THAT IS WHAT THE COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS TOMORROW, WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR THE AVERAGE FARMER IN NEW ZEALAND? THIS IS ONE OF THOSE QUESTIONS WHERE I CAN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT WHAT IS IN THE REPORT UNTIL WE RELEASE IT TOMORROW. I THINK THAT WHAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IS THAT WE HAVE GOT A VERY MANNISH TRANSITION IN MIND. THERE IS A VERY HIGH DEGREE OF CONSENSUS BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND ACROSS THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL AND BROADLY SPEAKING THERE IS A PRETTY GOOD PLAN. I HAVE TO SAY, THAT IS PRETTY REMARKABLE WHEN YOU CONSIDER HOW FAR WE HAVE COME OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST 10 YEARS OR SO. WILL TOMORROW PROVIDE CERTAINTY TO FARMERS, OR ARE THE FURTHER STAGES TO COME? THERE ARE FURTHER STAGES. WHAT WE ARE RELEASING TOMORROW IS A DISCUSSION DOCUMENT. IT IS WHAT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT DOING IN RESPONSE TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND PROPOSALS THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED. PEOPLE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEIR SAY ABOUT THAT BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT MAKES ANY FINAL DECISIONS. I KNOW THAT YOU ARE RESTRICTED IN WHAT YOU CAN TELL US AT THIS MOMENT, BUT BROADLY SPEAKING, LOOKING AT THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME, THERE HAS BEEN DEBATE FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU HAVE CAMPAIGNED ON BRINGING AGRICULTURE UNDER THE ETS IN THE PAST. WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR THE AVERAGE NEW ZEALAND FARMER IN A HYPOTHETICAL WORLD WHERE THEY WERE FOLDED INTO THE ETS? WHEN NEW ZEALAND FIRST NEGOTIATED FORMING THE GOVERNMENT WITH THE LABOUR PARTY, THEY AGREED THAT IF AGRICULTURE WAS BROUGHT INTO THE ETS, THEY WOULD RECEIVE A 95% DISCOUNT ON THE VALUE OF THOSE EMISSIONS AND SO THERE WOULD BE AN EXTREMELY WELL-MANAGED TRANSITION INTO THE SCHEME IF THAT WAS TO OCCUR. TOMORROW WE WILL BE RELEASING SOME NUMBERS ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS COULD LOOK LIKE. I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT THERE IS A DIRECTION OF TRAVEL WHERE EVERYONE HAS AGREED. IT IS TIME THAT WE ALL DO OUR PART. IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT FARMERS. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT JULIE ANNE GENTER RELEASED EARLIER THIS WEEK ABOUT THE CLEAN CAR DISCOUNT, THOSE OF US IN CITIES ARE GOING TO DO OUR PART TWO, PARTICULARLY AROUND TRANSPORT EMISSIONS. BUT IT IS GOING TO COST FARMERS, RIGHT? NOT NECESSARILY. PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T` PEOPLE FRAME THIS AS IF IT IS SOME SORT OF TAX OR ADDITIONAL COST. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE. THE POINT OF THIS IS TO REWARD PEOPLE WHO ARE BECOMING MORE EFFICIENT, REDUCING THEIR EMISSIONS. ACTUALLY THEY GET REWARDED UNDER THE KIND OF SCHEMES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED. HOW HAS THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR REACTED TO THE PROPOSAL? I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST 18 MONTHS AND THERE HAS BEEN HUGE PROGRESS, NOT JUST IN THE 18 MONTHS THAT I'VE BEEN IN GOVERNMENT BUT ALSO OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. IF YOU THINK BACK A FEW YEARS TO WHEN THERE WERE TRACTORS ON THE STEPS OF PARLIAMENT, THERE IS A HIGH DEGREE OF CONSENSUS ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. THERE IS SOME DEBATE OF COURSE ABOUT THE DETAIL, AND INSIGHT THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR THERE IS A DIVERSITY OF OPINION ABOUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD. I WANT TO CONSIDER FEDERATED FARMERS, WHICH HAVE JUST RELEASED THEIR SUBMISSION UNDER THE ZERO CARBON BELL. THEY HAVE SURVEYED THEIR MEMBERS AND SAY THAT JUST 3 1/2% OF KIWI FARMERS WOULD SUPPORT AGRICULTURE GOING INTO THE ETS. HAS THE SECTOR OFFERED YOU ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS? WE HAVE BEEN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SECTOR AND WITH VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE SECTOR OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, AND I THINK TOMORROW WHAT YOU WILL SEE IS THE FRUITS OF THOSE CONVERSATION. ARE THEY OFFERING AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN TO THE COMMITTEE'S PLAN THAT WILL BE RELEASED TOMORROW? YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT TOMORROW FOR THAT.� CAN YOU RULE OUT ADOPTING A VOLUNTARY CODE OF CONDUCT FOR THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR? WHATEVER WE DO, THERE IS A HIGH DEGREE OF CONSENSUS ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT MANDATING CHANGE VERSUS AN INDUSTRY LED VOLUNTARY CODE. CAN YOU RULE OUT ADOPTING A VOLUNTARY CODE FOR THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR? THERE IS A MANDATE, AND PART OF THAT MANDATE COMES FROM THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR ITSELF. THAT IS ACTUALLY THE REMARKABLE SHIFT. BUT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RULE OUT ADOPTING A VOLUNTARY CODE? I WILL NOT GET INTO THE DETAILS OF TOMORROW'S RELEASE, BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE SECTOR ITSELF IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CHANGE AND IN ORDER TO REDUCE EMISSIONS ACROSS THE SECTOR, AND THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE. WE HAVE SEEN ANOTHER BAR OF COUNCILS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND MONTHS DECLARING CLIMATE CHANGE EMERGENCIES IN NEW ZEALAND. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT POSITION? I DO AND I SPOKE AND MADE A SUBMISSION AT THE NELSON CITY COUNCIL WHEN THEY WERE CONSIDERING IT. THERE HAVE BEEN CRITICISMS THAT SUCH THINGS ARE EMPTY STATEMENTS THAT DON'T MEAN ANYTHING, BUT THEY SEND A SIGNIFICANT SIGNAL TO THE OFFICIALS AT THE AGENCIES THAT WORK FOR THOSE ORGANISATIONS. THEY SAY WHAT THE PRIORITY IS. HAS THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSE THEN BE INCONSISTENT WITH THE RESPONSE TO AN EMERGENCY? IN SOME AREAS YES. WE ARE MOST CERTAINLY MOVING AS FAR AS WE CAN. YOU HAVE GOT TO TAKE PEOPLE WITH YOU, AND THAT IS WHY WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME IN THESE CONSULTATION EXERCISES TO TRY AND BUILD THE LEVEL OF CONSENSUS. THE THING ABOUT AN EMERGENCY IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TIME. IN WHAT AREAS YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT REACTED AS THOUGH THIS IS AN EMERGENCY? WHEN YOU SAY WE DON'T HAVE TIME, THE USE OF THE LANGUAGE AROUND EMERGENCIES SEES THAT THIS IS A PRIORITY, AND WHEN YOU HAVE A CIVIL DEFENCE EMERGENCY LIKE A FLOOD OR A STORM, THOSE TEND TO BE MORE LIMITED IN TIME. THE THING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT YOU HAVE GOT TO SUSTAIN YOUR ACTIVITY OVER DECADES, AND MULTIPLE CHANGES OF GOVERNMENT, AND WHILST YOU ARE DOING THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP EVERYONE ON BOARD. IT ACTUALLY TAKES TIME TO BUILD A LEVEL OF CONSENSUS THAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHANGES THAT YOU ARE MAKING ACTUALLY STICK IT OUT OVER THE COURSE OF MULTIPLE CHANGES OF GOVERNMENT. ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT WE ARE MOVING QUICKLY ENOUGH? I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO MOVE FASTER. THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS FOR WHOM A LOT OF THESE IDEAS AND DEBATES ARE STILL ABSTRACT. DO YOU THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT IN A DECADE OR SO, KIWI FAMILIES MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY HAVING TO PAY MORE FOR MEAT, MILK, PETROL FOR EXAMPLE? I THINK IF SOMEONE BUYS AN ELECTRIC CAR THEY WON'T HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR PETROL IN THE FUTURE. I THINK YES, ALL OF OUR LIVES WILL BE DIFFERENT IN THE FUTURE THAN THEY ARE TODAY, BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT OUR LIVES ARE DIFFERENT TO HOW THEY WERE 30 YEARS AGO. THERE WILL BE THOSE KINDS OF CHANGES. THE BURDEN THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS GOT IS TO WORK OUT HOW TO MANAGE THAT TRANSITION IN A WAY THAT TAKES EVERYONE WITH US, LEAVES NO ONE BEHIND AND DOES NOT JUST CREATE A NEW GENERATION OF WINNERS AND LOSERS. ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU CAN GET NATIONAL ON BOARD FOR THE ZERO CARBON ACT? I DON'T WANT TO PUT WORDS IN THEIR MOUTH. I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE SPENT A LONG TIME WORKING WITH THEM IN GOOD FAITH. LOOK AT THEIR RESPONSE TO YOUR CHANGES AROUND ELECTRIC FIELD CALLS THIS WEEK. IT IS HARDLY INSPIRING CONFIDENCE. ON THAT ISSUE I THINK WE WERE VERY DISAPPOINTED AT THE MISINFORMATION THEY WERE PUTTING OUT ABOUT THE CLEAN CAR DISCOUNT. WHEN IT COMES TO THE ZERO CARBON BELL, THEY SUPPORTED PRETTY MUCH EVERY PROVISION IN THE BILL APART FROM THE METHANE TARGET. I HAVE TO SAY, THAT IS QUITE A REMARKABLE DEGREE OF CONSENSUS TO GET TO AT THIS POINT. I CANNOT GUARANTEE THE FUTURE. YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK THEM. YOU ARE ALMOST 2 YEARS INTO YOUR FIRST TERM AND YOUR TIME AS MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE. THIS GOVERNMENT IS FACING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT DELIVERY, ESPECIALLY ON THE BIG STUFF? ARE YOU FRUSTRATED OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE GETTING THERE? I AM BOTH FRUSTRATED AND I FEEL LIKE WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS. WHAT I LIKE TO HAVE GONE FASTER? YES I WOULD BUT I THINK THE CHANGES THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE ARE MULTIPLE DECADE PIECES OF LEGISLATION, AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE GET IT RIGHT. WE COULD HAVE RAMMED THIS THROUGH IN THE FIRST HUNDRED DAYS, BUT WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE LEVEL OF CONSENSUS THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN AS THE RESULT OF THE TIME THAT WE HAVE TAKEN TO GET IT RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. COMING UP ON Q+A ` OUR KORERO WITH SHANE JONES. HE SAYS THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO QUIT WRITING REPORTS AND JUST GET ON WITH BUILDING ROADS AND RAIL. IT'S QUITE A STATEMENT FROM SOMEONE WHO, OF COURSE, IS HIMSELF A CABINET MINISTER IN GOVERNOR. AND WE'VE GOT A GREAT POLITICAL PANEL TONIGHT ` MEREPEKA RAUKAWA-TAIT AND BEN THOMAS. BUT NEXT ` CAN WE RELY ON THE OLD POSTBOXES TO DELIVER A FAIR ELECTION? I LOVE TO SEND A POSTCARD, BUT APPARENTLY I'M IN THE MINORITY. DEMAND FOR TRADITIONAL MAIL SERVICES IS DROPPING. LAST YEAR NEW ZEALAND POST DELIVERED 63 MILLION FEWER LETTERS THAN THE YEAR BEFORE. THAT'S A MASSIVE DECLINE FOR THE GOVERNMENT MAIL COMPANY, AND AS YOU'VE PROBABLY NOTICED, MORE AND MORE MAIL BOXES ARE BEING TAKEN OUT OF SERVICE. THAT'S BUSINESS, RIGHT? WELL, HERE'S A PROBLEM. EVERY THREE YEARS, THOSE MAIL BOXES PLAY A CRITICAL ROLE IN OUR LOCAL COUNCIL ELECTIONS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF VOTES ARE SENT BY MAIL. SOME CANDIDATES SAY THE OLD-SCHOOL SYSTEM DISCRIMINATES AGAINST POOR COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE ARE FEWER MAILBOXES. HERE'S WHENA OWEN. LOW SOCIOECONOMIC AREAS, MAORI, PACIFIC ISLANDERS, THEY DON'T VOTE. THEY DON'T GET OUT THERE AND VOTE. WELL, IF YOU DON'T PUT A POST OFFICE OR YOU DON'T PUT A POST OFFICE BOX THERE, THEN NO ONE'S GONNA SEE THE NEED TO VOTE IN IT. COMPARED WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES IN THE REGION, FLAXMERE IN HAWKES BAY ` POPULATION AROUND 12,000 ` HAS VERY FEW POSTBOXES. TWO IN FACT. WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS A DX BOX, WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS A DX BOX, WHICH EXCHANGES MAIL WITH NEW ZEALAND POST, BUT ALONG WITH LOCALS, WE COULDN'T LOCATE IT. THERE'S ONLY BEEN TWO BOXES` THREE BOXES HERE IN FLAXMERE. I'VE ONLY EVER SEEN TWO. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE THIRD ONE IS. EVERYONE IN FLAXMERE KNOWS HENRY HEKE. HE'S A CELEBRITY CHEF AND COMMUNITY LEADER, AND HE'S TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE AND MAKE THEM AWARE OF THE POSTBOX DISCREPANCY. AND IN ANOTHER COMMUNITY, THERE'S 16,000, AND THEY'VE GOT 16 BOXES. WOW. AND YOU CAN PROBABLY GUESS WHICH COMMUNITY I'M TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. COS WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IT, SO ONE OF THE THINGS IS, I THINK` SOUNDS LIKE THEY DON'T WANT OUR VOTES, BRO. SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSTBOXES AND THE POPULATION OF THESE CENTRES, IN HASTINGS THERE ARE 1400 PEOPLE TO EVERY POSTBOX. HERE IN HAVELOCK NORTH ` OH, THEY'RE LUCKY ` 1100 PEOPLE TO ONE POSTBOX. AND THEN OVER IN FLAXMERE, 5500 PEOPLE TO EVERY POSTBOX. YEAH, IT'S VOTER SUPPRESSION. COUNCILLOR DAMON HARVEY WAS BROUGHT UP IN FLAXMERE, AND HE'S GOING FOR THE HASTINGS MAYORALTY, BUT HE THINKS THAT THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY IMPEDED BY A LACK OF POSTBOXES. I'M SHOCKED. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT AFTER THE LAST LOCAL BODY ELECTIONS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THIS AS AN ISSUE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THESE HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN DECOMMISSIONED AROUND THE PLACE IF WE'RE NOW DOWN TO TWO OF THEM, SO THAT'S BASED ON USAGE OF THEM, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FORECAST AHEAD TO WHAT IS NOW OCCURRING. A QUICK CHECK ON NZ POST'S WEBSITE AND A CONFIRMATION CALL TO THE COMMUNITIES REVEALS OTHER PLACES WITH VERY LIMITED POSTAL SERVICES. THE CENTRAL NORTH ISLAND TOWN OF KAWERAU, FOR INSTANCE, HAS ONLY ONE POSTBOX AND A POPULATION OF 7000. DAMON HARVEY AND HENRY HEKE DESCRIBE OUR CURRENT LOCAL GOVERNMENT VOTING SYSTEM AS SIMPLY UNDEMOCRATIC. I COMPLETELY SEE WHY THEY WOULD SAY THAT, AND I AGREE. ANYTHING THAT HINDERS PARTICIPATION WILL INHERENTLY WEAKEN THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. LOCAL GOVERNMENT NEW ZEALAND COULDN'T PUT ANYONE UP TO TALK TO Q+A AND SUGGESTED WE INTERVIEW MARGUERITE DELBERT FROM AUCKLAND COUNCIL, WHO ALSO WORKS WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT NEW ZEALAND. SHE EXPLAINS THAT AN ONLINE VOTING TRIAL WAS RECENTLY ABANDONED, AND SO THE VERY EARLIEST WE COULD HAVE IT UP RUNNING WOULD BE 2025. SO, CAN YOU IMAGINE GIVEN THE STATE OF OUR POSTAL SYSTEM TODAY WHAT POSTAL VOTING IS GONNA LOOK LIKE IN 2025? WE DO NOT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE DEMISE OF POSTAL VOTING TODAY, AND WE DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. I KNOW THAT THERE'S A YOUNG DEMOGRAPHIC WHO HAVE PROBABLY NEVER POSTED A LETTER. MONDAY MORNING IN TAURANGA, AND WARWICK LAMPP IS GETTING READY TO FLY SOUTH ON ELECTION BUSINESS. MOST COUNCILS NOW CONTRACT OUT THE RUNNING OF THEIR ELECTIONS, AND WARWICK LAMPP HAS MOST OF THOSE CONTRACTS. HE'LL ALSO BE PROCESSING FLAXMERE'S VOTES IN CHRISTCHURCH. FLAXMERE'S ALWAYS HAD ABOUT A 10 TO 15% LOWER TURNOUT THAN THE REST OF HASTINGS DISTRICT OVER THE LAST 18 YEARS. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE, EVEN WHEN THE POSTAL SYSTEM WAS PRETTY GOOD. SO I THINK, REALLY, THAT PERHAPS SHOWS THAT CANDIDATES IN THAT AREA HAVEN'T REALLY ENGAGED WITH THE VOTERS. THE SAME OLD BILLBOARD WITH A PHOTO SAYING VOTE FOR ME AND A SIGNWRITTEN CAR, I DON'T THINK CUTS IT ANY MORE. MAYBE YOU DON'T COME OUT TO US AND HAVE A CHAT TO US ABOUT WHAT REALLY CARES. BUT CANDIDATES GETTING OFF THEIR BUTTS AND ENGAGING WITH VOTERS AND MAKING IT INTERESTING AND RELEVANT. LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS ALSO FILL THE DISTRICT HEALTH BOARDS. KEVIN ATKINSON IS THE HEAD OF THE HAWKES BAY DHB. WELL, I THINK THERE'S DEFINITE DISPARITY AND INEQUITY AS WELL. PARTICULARLY THE INFORMATION I'VE SEEN REGARDING FLAXMERE. WHILE FLAXMERE IS AN ISSUE FOR THE HASTINGS DISTRICT COUNCIL, MY CONCERN IS THAT THE WHOLE OF OUR HAWKES BAY REGION, AND WE'VE PROBABLY GOT OTHER LOCAL COMMUNITIES WHO ARE JUST AS POORLY SERVED WITH POSTAL VOTING AS FLAXMERE IS. KEVIN ATKINSON, LIKE MOST PEOPLE WE'VE TALKED TO, WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COMBINATION OF ONLINE POSTAL VOTES AND BALLOT BOXES IN THE COMMUNITY. SINCE FLAXMERE HAS MADE A BIT OF A NOISE ABOUT THEIR POSTBOXES, THESE ELECTIONS JUST MAY HAVE MORE OF A PROFILE. THIS TIME AROUND, WE WILL LOOK AT AREAS LIKE FLAXMERE THAT NEED MORE INFORMATION WHERE THE POSTBOXES ARE, AND COUNCILS WILL LOOK AT PUTTING VOTING BOXES IN COMMUNITY CENTRES, IN LIBRARIES AND, POSSIBLY, SOME COUNCILS ARE LOOKING AT SUPERMARKETS. BUT MOST VOTES ARRIVE THROUGH THE MAIL ` 85 TO 90%. NZ POST CONTACTED Q+A TO SAY THEY DO THEIR BEST TO MEET THEIR 'THREE DAY A WEEK' DELIVERY TARGET AND THEY'LL HAVE AN EXPRESS SERVICE JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION, BUT THE EARLIER THAT KIWIS GET THEIR RETURN VOTES INTO THE MAIL, THE BETTER. AND THE DEMOCRACY SERVICES ADVISER TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT NEW ZEALAND HAS SOME ADVICE FOR THE PEOPLE OF FLAXMERE. I SAY TO THEM, I KNOW THAT IT MIGHT NOT BE THAT EASY TO FIND A POSTBOX, BUT IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE. THEY THINK THE ELECTIONS ` GENERAL ELECTIONS, LOCAL ELECTIONS ` ARE REALLY THAT IMPORTANT, THEN THEY SHOULD GO TO EVERY EFFORT. EVERY EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE GETS THE OPPORTUNITY. CLAIRE'S ON TONIGHT TONIGHT. WHAT HAVE YOU GOT FOR US? TONIGHT ` THE BLACKCAPS PIPPED AT THE POST AFTER ONE OF THE MOST INCREDIBLE GAMES IN CRICKETING HISTORY. THE UNWELCOME WADDLERS ` THE PENGUIN PAIR TRYING TO MAKE A SUSHI SHOP THEIR NEW NEST. SPECTACULAR SIGHTS ABOVE PARIS. A FLYING SOLDIER CELEBRATES BASTILLE DAY. AND THE PLANT THAT'S BECOME 'HIGHLY' POPULAR ON THE INTERNET. WE SHOW YOU WHY. JOIN US FOR ALL THAT AND TOMORROW'S WEATHER AT 10:25. PROBABLY AN EARLY NIGHT FOR YOU JACK. YES I AM VERY SAD ABOUT THE CRICKET. WE CALLED A FEW DIFFERENT BUSINESSES JUST TO SEE HOW PRODUCTIVITY WAS TODAY. THE US EMBASSY HAD TO PUMP SALMAN MANELLA DERBY ALL THROUGH THEIR OFFICE TO KEEP PEOPLE AWAKE. SEND US YOUR CAREFULLY CONSIDERED THOUGHTS. WE'RE ON TWITTER AT N-Z-Q-AND-A. WE'RE TAKING COMMENTS ON FACEBOOK TOO OR YOU CAN EMAIL US AT Q+A AT TVNZ.CO.NZ. UP NEXT ` I'M TALKING ROADS AND RAIL WITH INFRASTRUCTURE MINISTER SHANE JONES. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT IDEOLOGICALLY WE WILL NOT BE USING PRIVATE CAPITAL ON. THEY ARE SCHOOLS. THEY ARE PRISONS AND THEY ARE THE HEALTH SYSTEM. AND AFTER THAT WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF INNOVATION, IMAGINATION AND A BLEND OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CAPITAL. Jenny Craig works. Check this out. I lost 37 kilos. I lost 39 kilos. And I lost 37 kilos on Jenny Craig. VOICEOVER: The Jenny Craig difference is that your consultant will keep you on track, and the meals are convenient and delicious. Join Jenny Craig today with our special offer - only $8 for an 8 week membership. Cost of food additional. What are you waiting for? Jenny Craig is here to help you lose weight AND keep it off. So call 0800 502 302. CRISIS POINT ` THAT'S HOW THE PRIME MINISTER'S OWN BUSINESS ADVISORY COUNCIL DESCRIBES NEW ZEALAND'S INFRASTRUCTURE. IT BLAMES SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS FOR YEARS OF UNDERINVESTMENT IN OUR ROADS, RAIL, PORTS AND THE OTHER CRITICAL FACILITIES THAT HELP KEEP THE ECONOMY HUMMING. IT ALSO CALLED ON THIS GOVERNMENT TO GET ON WITH 12 ROADING PROJECTS CURRENTLY ON HOLD OR UNDER REVIEW, AND SUGGESTED PRIVATE INVESTMENT COULD HELP GET THEM MOVING. SHANE JONES IS THE MINISTER IN CHARGE, AND WHEN I SPOKE TO HIM TODAY HE AGREED ` THE STATE OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE PLANNING IS, IN HIS WORDS, DISMAL. I DON'T HAVE A HELL OF A LOT OF NEGATIVITY IN TERMS OF CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S LETTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER OR THE REPORT. I THINK IT DOESN'T FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE SOME THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING, BUT LOOK, WE DIDN'T SUDDENLY ARRIVE AT THIS RATHER DISMAL POINT IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS. FOR A LONG TIME, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT AND PROCESSED OURSELVES INTO PARALYSIS, AND WE'VE GOT TO GET ON WITH BUILDING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, RATHER THAN WRITING MORE REPORTS ABOUT IT. WELL, TO BE CLEAR, THE BUSINESS ADVISORY COUNCIL DIDN'T PIN THE BLAME ON YOUR GOVERNMENT. THEY SAID SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEFICIT WHICH NEW ZEALAND FINDS ITSELF FACING. YOU ACCEPT THERE'S A DEFICIT, AT THE VERY LEAST? OH, YEAH. YEAH, NO, NO, I'M THE MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE. I GET THIS INFORMATION. THERE'S $130B, ACCORDING TO TREASURY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHEW THROUGH OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS, AND NOT ALL OF THAT CAN BE FUNDED FROM THE PUBLIC PURSE WITHIN OUR CURRENT DEBT CONSTRAINTS. I'LL ASK YOU ABOUT THOSE DEBT CONSTRAINTS IN A MOMENT. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING THE MOST CRUCIAL PROJECTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOING UNFUNDED? WELL, IF YOU'RE ASKING ME AS SOMEONE FROM THE NORTH, OVER THE WEEKEND ANOTHER PERSON DIED JUST SOUTH OF WHANGAREI, AND I CAN ASSURE YOU MY OFFICE THAT I SHARE WITH THE RIGHT HONOURABLE WINSTON PETERS IN WHANGAREI HAS HAD A LOT OF SAD CALLS FROM MOTORISTS. THEY WANT TO SEE THAT ROAD IMPROVED IMMEDIATELY. IN TERMS OF THE PIECES THAT I HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR, I'VE GOT A TREMENDOUS LEVEL OF MOTIVATION TO EFFECT THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE PORT IN THE NORTH, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, UPGRADE THE ABILITY OF KIWIRAIL TO TAKE SOME OF THE STRESS OF OUR ROADING SYSTEM. IS THIS GOVERNMENT INVESTING ENOUGH IN ROADS? WELL, $4.5B PER YEAR. I THINK WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IS ACTUALLY RECALIBRATING. THERE WAS THE LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE WRONG STRATEGY. THAT WAS CLEVER POLITICS ON THE PART OF STEVEN JOYCE AS THEY WENT INTO THE LAST ELECTION. THEY LED PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT THE MONEY HAD BEEN ALLOCATED IN TERMS OF THE TROPHY ROADS. OF COURSE, IT HASN'T. HOWEVER, THERE IS AN EXPECTATION THAT WE WILL DEMONSTRATE TO PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SPENDING MORE ON REGIONAL ROADS, AND ALTHOUGH WE ARE, I ACCEPT THAT ME AS THE ASSOCIATE TRANSPORT MINISTER NEEDS TO DO MORE TO PROVE THAT TO PEOPLE. SO, WHEN YOU CONSIDER OUR INFRASTRUCTURE DEFICIT, WHERE DO YOU SEE THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS AT THE MOMENT? AND WHEN WILL THEY BE FIXED? WELL, OBVIOUSLY IN AUCKLAND, CONGESTION IS A MAJOR PROBLEM THERE. THE EAST WEST LINK ` WE NEED TO EXPEDITE THAT. IT'S BEING LOOKED AT AGAIN, AND WE'VE SAVED MONEY ON A NEW MODEL, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND ` ALTHOUGH WE'RE GIVING ANOTHER 2B THROUGH THE NZTA TO AUCKLAND ` THAT AUCKLAND'S ALL TICKETY-BOO. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE NEED MORE INVESTMENT IN ROADS. WELL, IT'S TWO THINGS. WE'RE GOING TO NEED INVESTMENT IN ROADS IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU USE A ROAD FOR A BIKE, A CAR, A TRUCK OR A SEMI-TRAILER, BUT WE ALSO ARE COMMITTED TO RAIL. I COME FROM A PARTY THAT CAMPAIGNED TO BOOST THE FORTUNES OF RAIL, WHICH IS WHY THE $1.3B THAT'S BEEN ALLOCATED ` SOON WE'LL BE MAKING ANNOUNCEMENTS. AND INDEED, TOMORROW I'M IN HOKITIKA AND IN THE WEST COAST, AND I'M GOING TO BE CATCHING A TRAIN OVER TO CHRISTCHURCH, AND I'LL BE ABLE TO SEE SOME OF THE $60-70B THAT WE'VE ALREADY ALLOCATED TOWARDS KIWIRAIL TO IMPROVE THAT STRETCH OF THE RAILWAY NETWORK. SO, WHEN DO YOU SEE SOME OF THESE BIG PROJECTS BEING FIXED? WHEN WILL THEY BE COMPLETED? WELL, I'VE GOT TO SHARE WITH YOU SOMETHING I THINK THE VIEWERS ALREADY KNOW. WHEN OUR GOVERNMENT WAS FORMED, WE INHERITED A MIASMA IN MY VIEW. WE'VE WRITTEN HEAPS OF REPORTS. WE'VE BECOME SO RISK-AVERSE IN TERMS OF PROCESS, IT'S ALMOST AS IF WE'VE LOST THE PIONEER SPIRIT OF EARLIER GENERATIONS OF KIWIS THAT DEVELOPED OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, IN THAT SENSE, THE RMA ` AND DAVID PARKER'S MAKING SOME ANNOUNCEMENTS SOON. PHIL TWYFORD ` HE IS ACTUALLY DELIVERING US SOME PRODUCTS IN RELATION TO HOW MORE IMAGINATIVELY WE CAN FUND THIS INFRASTRUCTURE DEFICIT FOR HOUSING. BUT WE'VE GOT TO BRING IT TOGETHER AND DEMONSTRATE THAT THE NARRATIVE ACTUALLY CARRIES A LOT OF BALLAST, AND DEFANG SOME OF THESE MISAPPREHENSIONS THAT WE'RE NOT SERIOUS. WHEN ARE YOU, THOUGH? WHEN ARE YOU, AS THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE, GOING TO HELP DELIVER ON SOME OF THESE BIG PROJECTS? WELL, IN TERMS OF KIWIRAIL, I'M THE STEWARD OF THE PROVINCIAL GROWTH FUND. SO, WE TOOK $300M FOR REGIONAL RAIL CONNECTIVITY. THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS ARE IMMINENT. IN RELATION, HOWEVER, TO INFRASTRUCTURE, WELL, THE FIRST THING THAT I'VE DONE THAT NO OTHER POLITICIAN HAS BEEN ABLE TO DELIVER ON IS TO CREATE WAIHANGA, THE NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE COMMISSION, AND I EXPECT THAT THAT BODY, FREED OF PARTISAN POLITICS WITH HIGH-RANKING NEW ZEALANDERS, WILL START TO DELIVER ON A NATIONAL PLAN. OK. I WILL ASK YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE COMMISSION IN A MOMENT, BUT LET'S GO BACK TO THAT DEBT SUBJECT. YOU SAID AT THE MOMENT, UNDER THE CURRENT DEBT CONSTRAINTS, WE'RE ONLY ABLE TO SERVE SO MUCH OF THAT DEFICIT. WHY AREN'T WE SPENDING MORE MONEY? IF I THINK THROUGH HOW JOHN KEY AND THEM DID IT, THE VALUE OF THE ECONOMY'S ABOUT $300B, AND WE LIKE IN AT AROUND 30` WELL, 25-30% IS OUR EXPECTATION. AND, LOOK, PEOPLE MAKE CHOICES, AND OUR TREASURER, MR ROBERTSON, IS IMPROVING THE AMOUNT OF CAPITAL THAT WE'LL HAVE HAD AVAILABLE, UP TO $14B. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT, IDEOLOGICALLY, WE WILL NOT BE USING PRIVATE CAPITAL ON. THEY ARE SCHOOLS, THEY ARE PRISONS AND THEY ARE THE HEALTH SYSTEM. AFTER THAT, WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF INNOVATION AND IMAGINATION AND A BLEND OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CAPITAL. THAT'S THE GOVERNMENT'S POSITION. YEAH, BUT LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THAT CAPITAL EXPENDITURE FROM THE GOVERNMENT'S POSITION, THOUGH. SHOULD THIS GOVERNMENT BE BORROWING MORE TO FUND THIS INFRASTRUCTURE DEFICIT? WELL, MR` BOTH MR TWYFORD, MYSELF AND GRANT ROBERTSON HAVE BEEN IN QUITE INTENSE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS, AND I ACCEPT THAT GRANT ROBERTSON'S VIEW THAT YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN A MODERATE LEVEL OF DEBT TO COPE WITH ADVERSE EVENTS CARRIES A LOT OF BALLAST. BUT, NATURALLY, I'M CONSTANTLY AGITATING FOR US TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE EXPENDITURE, CERTAINLY IF WHAT THE ECONOMIC COMMENTATORS ARE SAYING COMES TO PASS ` THAT WE'RE GOING TO FACE BLEAK WEATHER, AND INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING IS FANTASTIC IN THAT CONTEXT. BUT IN YOUR EYES, MINISTER, CAN THIS GOVERNMENT JUSTIFY RUNNING SURPLUSES WHILE WE FACE AN INFRASTRUCTURE DEFICIT OF THIS MAGNITUDE? WELL, THE DEFICIT AND ITS MAGNITUDE UNFORTUNATELY WILL NOT BE SOLVED BY THE TIME WE ARRIVE AT THE NEXT ELECTION. 15 TO 18 MONTHS AWAY WON'T EVEN` BUT THEY WON'T BE SOLVED BY RUNNING SURPLUSES, EITHER. YEAH, BUT SURPLUSES DO ENABLE YOU WHEN A GENUINELY ADVERSE EVENT STRIKES YOU OUT OF` FROM RANDOM LEFT FIELD. AND, LOOK, I JUST THINK WE'RE BEING A BIT UNFAIR ON WHAT GRANT ROBERTSON'S NARRATIVE IS. HE HAS INCREASED, IN THE LAST BUDGET, THE AMOUNT OF CAPITAL OVER A MULTI` NUMBER OF YEARS. I JUST WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR HERE, THOUGH. DO YOU AGREE WITH GRANT ROBERTSON? WELL, OF COURSE. HE'S MY` HE'S THE TREASURER AND I'M THE ASSOCIATE FINANCE MINISTER. BUT IF YOU'RE ASKING ME, 'IS THERE SCOPE IN THE FUTURE 'FOR MORE INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING TO COME OUT OF THE CORE CROWN DEBT?' YES, I DO. WHEN SHOULD THAT SPENDING BEGIN? OH, WELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO` OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL DEPEND ON WHERE WE GET TO WITH THE NEXT BUDGET, BUT PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY KNOW THAT THE POSITION OF NEW ZEALAND FIRST IS THAT, WHILST PRIVATE CAPITAL, JACK, HAS A PLACE TO` IS CAPABLE OF DOING SOME OF THE HEAVY LIFTING, PUBLIC DEBT IS OFTEN VERY CHEAP DEBT, AND IF IT'S DEDICATED OVER TIME TO LONG-TERM, PUBLICALLY OWNED ASSETS LIKE KEY RAILWAY, ROADING INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S A GOOD THING. DOES LABOUR SUPPORT PRIVATE INVESTMENT IN THOSE SPACES? YEAH, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT BOTH MR TWYFORD AND GRANT ROBERTSON HAVE BEEN GIVING THIS MESSAGE. MR TWYFORD'S DOING IT AS WE SPEAK IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE RELATED TO HOUSING. I GUESS I WOULD CONCLUDE, BASED ON YOUR QUESTIONS, THAT THE MESSAGE IS SOMEWHAT MUTED. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? WELL, IF THE MESSAGE HASN'T GOT OUT THAT BEYOND PRISONS, SCHOOLS AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, WE'RE READY FOR A BLEND OF PRIVATE AND PUBLIC, THEN OBVIOUSLY MY NEW INFRASTRUCTURE COMMISSION ` AND INDEED, MY GOOD SELF ` NEED TO AMPLIFY THAT MESSAGE. WELL, JUST THE OTHER DAY, PHIL TWYFORD CAME OUT AND SAID HE OPPOSED PRIVATE INVESTMENT IN THE 12 ROADING PROJECTS THAT ARE PRESENTLY ON HOLD OR UNDER REVIEW THAT THE BUSINESS ADVISORY COUNCIL SAYS ARE CALLING OUT FOR PRIVATE INVESTMENT. DO YOU THINK HE'S MAKING THE WRONG DECISION THERE? NO, AS I RECALL, WHAT HE SAID IS THAT AN IMMEDIATE COMMITMENT TO THOSE 12 ROADS WITHOUT FURTHER DUE DILIGENCE BEING UNDERTAKEN IS WHAT HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH. SO ARE WE OPEN FOR BUSINESS? IF PRIVATE INVESTMENT FIRMS ARE WATCHING YOUR COMMENTS CLOSELY RIGHT NOW, WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THEM? OH, NO, NEW ZEALAND IS MOST CERTAINLY OPEN FOR BUSINESS, BUT THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT COMPRISING THREE PARTIES IS NOT GOING TO GO AND LOOK FOR PRIVATE CAPITAL FOR SCHOOLS, PRISONS AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. AFTER THAT` BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS OKAY? EVERYTHING ELSE` I'VE SAID ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS THAT` WHAT ABOUT IF THAT MONEY COMES FROM OVERSEAS? WELL, AT THE MOMENT MR TWYFORD IS PRESIDING OVER A PROCESS WHERE THE CULLEN FUND AND A GROUP OF CANADIAN INVESTORS ARE EXPLORING WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN STAND UP THE AUCKLAND LIGHT RAIL. WELL, CANADIAN MONEY IS NOT NEW ZEALAND MONEY. THAT'S INTERNATIONAL, OVERSEAS MONEY. WOULD YOU SUPPORT CHINESE INVESTMENT IN THESE PROJECTS? WELL, THERE'S ALREADY CHINESE INVESTMENT IN TERMS OF TRANSMISSION GULLY AND A VARIETY OF OTHER PROJECTS. I'M SURE THE CHINESE WOULD LOVE TO PROVIDE THE DEBT. WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN FIND THE RIGHT PARTNERS AND CAN GET OVER THE THRESHOLD IN TERMS OF THE PROCUREMENT PROCESS, THAT'S UP TO THE TECHNICAL PROCUREMENT MANAGERS. BUT IF YOU'RE ASKING ME ETHNICALLY AM I ALLERGIC TO IT, NO, NOT AT ALL. LET ME ASK ABOUT A COUPLE OF OTHER SUBJECTS REGARDING INFRASTRUCTURE. DO WE NEED SOME SORT OF A NATIONAL MASTER PLAN? AND IS THAT THE SORT OF THING THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE COMMISSION WILL BE CONSIDERING? YEAH. IT'S TAKING LONGER THAN I WOULD LIKE. THE BILL'S STILL IN THE HOUSE FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE COMMISSION. IT'LL BE BACK SHORTLY. WITHIN THE NEXT MONTH, WE'LL KNOW WHO ARE THE LUMINARIES THAT WILL BE ON THIS BODY. THAT'S A DECISION FOR CABINET. AND WE MOST CERTAINLY NEED A LONG-TERM NATIONAL PLAN, AND AN UPGRADED PLAN IN TERMS OF WHAT THE TREASURY HAVE ALREADY PUBLISHED IN 2015. LET ME ASK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. THE INTERIM CLIMATE CHANGE COMMITTEE'S REPORT COMES OUT TOMORROW. THE EXPECTATIONS AT THE MOMENT ARE THAT THEY WILL RECOMMEND BRINGING AGRICULTURE INTO THE ETS. SO, DO YOU SUPPORT AGRICULTURE IN THE ETS OR NOT? YEAH, JACK, YOU NEED LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE COALITION AGREEMENT. IF INDEED AGRICULTURE COMES INTO THE ETS, THEY ONLY WILL FACE, AT THE INITIAL STAGES, A 5% IMPOST. YOU NEED LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE COMMITMENT THAT WE WRESTLED OUT OF OUR COALITION PARTNER, THE LABOUR PARTY, TO GIVE SOME LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE TO THE AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY. BUT THEY NEED ALSO TO ACCEPT THAT THIS IS A NATIONAL CHALLENGE AND WE'VE GOT TO WORK TOGETHER ON IT, AND WHERE THEY HAVE ISSUES THAT MAYBE NEED TO BE STRAIGHTENED OUT, THEN AS THE VARIOUS PIECES OF LEGISLATION WEND THEIR WAY THROUGH PARLIAMENT, USE THE SELECT COMMITTEE FOR THAT PROCESS. I AM OFF-SIDE SLIGHTLY WITH A NUMBER OF THEM OVER PLANTING TREES. THEY FEEL THAT THE WRONG TREE IS IN THE WRONG PLACE. BUT THE REALITY IS, BIT BY BIT, I THINK FARMERS ARE COMING TO EXPECT THAT` COMING TO SEE THAT MY TREE POLICY ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY A USEFUL MITIGATING FEATURE THAT THEY CAN RELY UPON. DO YOU SUPPORT THIS GOVERNMENT DECLARING A CLIMATE CHANGE EMERGENCY? WELL, I` LOOK, IT'D BE A CAUCUS DECISION IF PARLIAMENT IS REQUESTED TO PASS SUCH A VOTE, BUT THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW ME WELL KNOW THAT I AM QUITE A RIGHT-WING, PRO-INDUSTRY PERSON, AND I'VE GOT LITTLE TOLERANCE FOR METALLIC SOUNDS, EVEN IF THEY ARE GREEN. INFRASTRUCTURE MINISTER SHANE JONES. WE'LL UNPACK HIS COMMENTS AND CONSIDER THE POST BOX PROBLEM WITH OUR PANEL RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK. BOTH MR TWYFORD, MYSELF AND GRANT ROBERTSON HAVE BEEN IN QUITE INTENSE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS, AND I ACCEPT GRANT ROBERTSON'S VIEW THAT YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN A MODERATE LEVEL OF DEBT TO COPE WITH ADVERSE EVENTS CARRIES A LOT OF BALLAST, BUT NATURALLY I AM CONSTANTLY AGITATING FOR US TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE EXPENDITURE, CERTAINLY IF WHAT THE ECONOMIC COMMENTATORS ARE SAYING COMES TO PASS. INFRASTRUCTURE MINISTER SHANE JONES. LISTENING TO THAT INTERVIEW WAS OUR PANEL ` MEREPEKA RAUKAWA-TAIT ` CHAIR OF THE WHANAU ORA COMMISSIONING AGENCY, ALSO A MEMBER OF THE ROTORUA LAKES COUNCIL. AND BEN THOMAS, PR GUY AND FORMER NATIONAL POLITICAL STAFFER. WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HIS COMMENTS THIS EVENING? HE IS CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS THERE IS INFRASTRUCTURE CRISIS AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT LEADERSHIP BECAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLANNING FOR THIS. BUT HE NEEDS TO COME OUT STRONGLY AND SAY PUBLIC-PRIVATE INVESTMENT IS WHAT'S REQUIRED. ANNA NEEDS TO BE MADE SURE THAT THAT MESSAGE GETS OUT OTHERWISE EVERYONE WILL GO INTO DEBT. THE GOVERNMENT IS SITTING ON SURPLUS WHEN WE SHOULD BE GETTING THOSE INTO PROJECTS. AS THE IDEAL LOGICAL RESISTANCE FROM LABOUR? THERE ARE NO MAGIC MMPS. YOU JUST WANT TO PAY SOMEONE TO GET IT BUILT. SHANE JONES WANT IMAGINATIVE INNOVATION TO COME OUT OF THEM, BUT WE CANNOT DO THAT UNDER THE CURRENT MODEL BECAUSE THERE ARE NO INTERNATIONAL PROVIDERS THERE ARE JUST THE THREE NATIONAL PROVIDERS BIDDING FOR EVERYTHING. WE NEED TO HAVE MORE NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS LAYING OUT WHAT THE BIG PROJECTS ARE WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE PIPELINE SO THAT THESE INVESTORS AND FIRMS CAN TAKE NEW ZEALAND SERIOUSLY. SO THERE WILL BE CONSISTENT OPPORTUNITIES? I SUPPORT IT AND IT SHOULDN'T JUST BE THE IMMEDIATE CONCERNS, IT SHOULD BE THE LONGER TERM TRACK SAY 20 YEARS. WE HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE RIGHT NOW THAT IS CRAP AND HAS GONE PAST ITS USE BY DATE. WE SHOULD BE TAKING A LONG-TERM APPROACH AND ANY PLAN SHOULD BE A MASTER PLAN. WE ALSO NEED REGIONAL APPROACHES. HOW MUCH OF IT IS GETTING CONSENSUS BETWEEN LOCAL AND CENTRAL GOVERNMENTS. OFTEN THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PRIORITIES. MAINLY BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLAN. THEY ARE MAJORLY CONSTRAINED BY DEBT. THERE IS NO REASON THEY SHOULD BE GOING FOR CORE INFRASTRUCTURE WE HAVE NEVER SEEN CHEAPER BORROWING RATES. THE GOVERNMENT HAS A LOT OF HEADROOM IN TERMS OF BORROWING. NATIONAL WOULD ATTACK THEM IF THEY DID THAT AS BEING FISCALLY RISKLESS. NOT IF THEY BUILD ROADS OF NATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE. HOWEVER STRUCTURES THAT SUPPORT THE GROWTH OF OUR ECONOMY AND BY NOT DOING ANYTHING ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND BE RELUCTANT TO ENTER INTO PUBLIC-PRIVATE INVESTMENT WE HAVE BEEN STYMIED WITHOUT GROWTH. WE DO NEED THAT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I WAS INTERESTED TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE POSTBOX PROBLEM? ARDEN REALISED THERE WAS A DISCREPANCY AND YOU DO NEED TO MAKE SURE IT IS FAIR. YOU HAVE AN AREA OF TOWN WHERE THEY ARE A LOWER SOCIO-ECONOMIC AREA AND THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO PARTICIPATE IS NOT AS IT SHOULD BE. WE KNOW THAT IN THOSE AREAS PEOPLE DO NOT ENGAGE IN THE ELECTIONS. AND THERE ARE REASONS FOR THAT. THEY DO NOT SEE THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN THE LEADERSHIP. THE LEADERSHIP DOESN'T KNOW THEIR ISSUES. SO IF THEY SEE THAT AND THEN DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO TO VOTE, THAT DISTANCES THEM ON THE OPPORTUNITY SO MUCH OF THE FEEDBACK IS PEOPLE SAYING DON'T BE LAZY. THAT IS ALL VERY WELL BUT YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, WHO HAVE GOT FAR MORE POSTBOXES. IT IS ABOUT MAKING IT EASY. IT IS ALSO ABOUT MAKING IT EQUAL. AND THERE ARE STRUCTURAL BARRIERS. WE KNOW THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS DOMINATED BY THE VOTES OF RICH RETIREE LANDOWNERS. I AM GENERATION X AND I GOT AN ENVELOPE SAYING I NEED TO UPDATE MY ELECTORAL ROLL DETAILS. I AM TO PHYSICAL LETTERS AWAY FROM VOTING ON A GOVERNMENT ELECTION AND THAT IS PROPERLY TOO MUCH OF A BARRIER. IT IS INTERESTING TO CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVE SUCH AS ONLINE VOTING. NOT AFTER THE LAST INCIDENT. OUR BOW ONE DAY WE WILL GO DOWN TO CAST VOTES AT A BALLOT. THAT IS SOMETHING PEOPLE THAT DO LIKE. THEY LIKE PHYSICALLY GOING AND FEELING LIKE IT COUNTS. IT IS AN EVENT. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PUTTING THE BOXES IN SUPERMARKETS AND MAKING THEM AS ACCESSIBLE AS POSSIBLE WAS A MARK WE WANT PEOPLE TO VOTE. PICK TICKLY FROM PEOPLE FROM AREAS WHO FEEL THAT THEIR VOICES DON'T COUNT. FROM THE CLIMATE CHANGE MINISTER THIS EVENING AND THERE HAS BEEN A REPORT FROM THE COMMITTEE TOMORROW. AND SOMETHING WILL BE RELEASED FROM THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY. EVEN UNDER THAT 5% MARGIN NEGOTIATED. WHAT YOU MAKE ABOUT? I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE MINISTER WAS VERY FIRM THAT WE SHOULDN'T REGARD THIS AS A TAX. WE SHOULD EMPHASISE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WHO REDUCE EMISSIONS. I THINK THIS IS WRONG AND I STRONGLY SUPPORT CLIMATE CHANGE ACTION, BUT THIS IS WHY THE ETS HAS FAILED SO FAR. INTO THOUSANDS IT WAS SOLD AS A WAY FOR US TO ACCOUNT OUR WAY TO RICHES AND STANDARD OF LIVING WOULDN'T CHANGE AND SOMEHOW WHERE EVERYONE WENT RICH DURING GSC, ARE JUST JUST IMPOSE A COST AND WHAT WE CAN RETURN AS A LIVABLE PLANET. AND IT IS NOT BEYOND ASKING ALL SECTORS TO PLAY A PART. IF YOU HAD CARBON PROPERLY PRICED, YOU WOULDN'T NEED SHANE JONES BILLION-DOLLAR TREES PLANTING, BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THAT DISTORTION IN THE MARKET WHICH GOES DAIRY AND UN- EQUAL PLAYING FIELD WITH FORESTRY. THIS WILL GO UP A CONSULTATION SO WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT, AND THEN NEGOTIATING WITH NATIONAL, DO YOU THINK THIS GOVERNMENT HAS A PROBLEM AROUND DELIVERY? WE ARE HALFWAY THROUGH THE YEAR OF DELIVERY IN THESE BIG PICTURE ISSUES AND THEY DON'T SEEM TO MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS. I THINK WITH A LOT OF THE WORKING GROUPS HAVE PUT TOGETHER THE REPORTS ARE COMING BACK NOW. THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE BEING CONSIDERED AND THEY WERE WELL CONFIRMED REPORTS. I DON'T WANT TO SEE CHANGE FOR CHANGE SAKE. ANY CHANGES TO BE SUSTAINABLE SO THEY HAVE TAKEN THEIR TIME. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE SUSTAINABLE AND I SAY THAT NOW IS THE TIME FOR IMPLEMENTATION AND WE'LL SEE HOW WELL THEY DO. THINK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. STICK AROUND. YOUR FEEDBACK ON ALL OUR STORIES TONIGHT AFTER THE BREAK. ON WHENA'S POSTAL VOTING STORY, MOANA MANIOPOTO TWEETED ` '1 POST BOX IN KAWERAU. GOOD STORY ON Q+A.' RORY TWEETED ` 'ONLINE ELECTIONS SEEM GREAT, UNTIL YOU REALISE THEY ARE ONLINE.' ON OUR INTERVIEW WITH INFRASTRUCTURE MINISTER SHANE JONES, BERYL LANE POSTED ` 'WE ALL HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS THAT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE CAN'T COPE WITH 'ALL THE EXTRA PEOPLE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY. 'THE GOVERNMENTS HAVE ALL LET US DOWN.' AND ON MINISTER JAMES SHAW AND THE COST OF FARMERS ADAPTING TO CLIMATE CHANGE, @DRCURIOSITY TWEETED ` 'THE IMPORTANT COMPLEMENTARY QUESTION: 'WHAT WILL NOT ADAPTING TO CLIMATE CHANGE COST FARMERS?' TONIGHT IS UP NEXT. THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND NGA MIHI KI A KOUTOU MO NGA KARERE. THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. KIA ORA KI AKU HOA MAHI. THANKS TO THE Q+A TEAM. HEI TERA WIKI. SEE YOU NEXT MONDAY EVENING AT 9.30. CAPTIONS BY CATHERINE DE CHALAIN AND ANTONY VLUG. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR.