Whatungarongaro te tangata, toitu te whenua. Kei nga iwi o te motu, tahuti mai ki Te Hui. Ko Mihingarangi tenei. E mihi atu nei ki a koutou katoa. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` she thought she'd found her dream job. Yeah, just helping people. I loved it, yeah. But she lost it after Work and Income told her she was too old. Because you're over 60, or 65, they don't think you can work any more. Well, they got that wrong. So are we discriminating against our kaumatua? And one of Aotearoa's earliest sites of occupation, occupied once more. Look around. There are new faces amongst us. I want the government and Auckland Council to purchase this land back and return it to mana whenua, whom they stole it from. And I hope that mana whenua will hold it in trust for all New Zealanders to enjoy. We look at the battle to protect Ihumatao. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 The weekend has seen an unprecedented number of visitors to the occupation at Ihumatao. It comes following a significant move from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to halt any development before a solution is found. Initially the government, including Maori ministers, had said the deal between one local iwi, Te Kawerau a Maki, and Fletchers, the construction company, should be respected. But now it seems they're willing to listen. (POIGNANT MUSIC) Deep at the heart of the Ihumatao standoff, where the movement SOUL, Save Our Unique Landscape, and other occupiers are set up, is a rich history which goes back to the beginning of human settlement in Aotearoa. This land is some of the untarnished confiscated land. Give it back! Ihumatao is one of this country's oldest settlements ` like, the Tainui waka arrived on the other side of that hill. So this is as much a heritage protection issue as it is a land confiscation issue. So, let's just deal with the land. In 1863 Governor Grey confiscated it from local hapu. He deemed that that they had supported the Kingitanga, and he turned over to settlers. One of the settler whanau was the Wallace family, and it's been in their hands until just a few years ago. But a row broke out between environmentalists, big business and iwi. And in the end it was rezoned and sold to Fletchers for a housing development. A younger generation of mana whenua have been occupying it ever since. They say this is Aotearoa's Stonehenge and it belongs to all New Zealanders. I want the government and Auckland Council to purchase this land back and return it to mana whenua, whom they stole it from. And I hope that mana whenua will hold it in trust for all New Zealanders to enjoy. A few days ago an eviction notice was served on the occupiers. I feel like we've always known that it would inevitably come down to this. And no one's leaving. Instead, the movement is gaining momentum. Hundreds are on arriving on site each day, with the promise of much more to come. Look around. There are new faces amongst us. And rest assured, because there's buses coming from Hokianga,... (CHEERING) ...there's buses coming from Taranaki. (CHEERING) Some here have come to protect Ihumatao's unique landscape. But for mana whenua, this is about their home. # ...mana motuhake me te aroha. # For the past few years Pania Newton has kept the ahika burning, holding the occupation together. And this week she's been thrust on to the global stage. How's it going for you? Oh, OK, yeah. I'm... hopeful, and I'm positive, and my energy and my wairua are full at this time. As more kaitiaki move in, Newton has the added responsibility of their safety and wellbeing. In terms of your mahi, it's gone from occupying to now, like, event management, in a way. Mass occupation, we would say. Yeah. So, what's your role here? You're having to facilitate, negotiate? Yeah, it's somewhat difficult, but we always inevitably knew that it would come down to a mass occupation or confrontation like this. Because it's just the way that the laws are set up here in Aotearoa. They're against us. And it's just really sad our government hasn't learnt from the mistakes of the past. The 2016 sale of what was originally Maori land has caused a generational divide ` the young against some of the old. One of their elders, Te Warena Taua, who initially fought the development, changed tack in the last few years, saying there was no other option left for them. My message is to my uncle, who is the only one who has fought against us, is to sit with us. Let's have a korero. Come with an open heart, open ears and an open mind to your rangatahi, who are here, willing to support you and who are here asking you to open an ear to us, who will inherit his position one day in the future. Occupier Waimarie Rakena is tangata whenua. She was raised in the Ihumatao village, alongside those who are supporting the housing development. She's sad it's dividing her people. Is this a modern-day conquer and divide? I believe so. But due to colonisation, I feel now, that it is our own that are doing it to our own ` perhaps with the belief that they are doing the right thing by their people. The new generation of Maori occupiers say they hold the legacies of past protesters in their hearts and minds. You know, looking at history and the struggle at Bastion Point and the raru that Eva Rickard went through, and taking those learnings, I guess helped me to build resilience. And we had hoped to have Te Warena Taua, chairman of Te Kawerau a Maki, but he was unable to appear. In a statement, he said they'd worked hard to intervene in a private sale between a farming family and Fletcher Building several years ago, but had no legal recourse to stop the transaction. It's believed fresh talks will take place in coming days, and other mana whenua have told The Hui they also want to be included. Ka hoki mai matou hei muri i tenei wa whakata. Karahuihui mai. An Auckland kuia is calling out Work and Income for a work subsidy she says discriminates against pensioners. Donna Te Huia thought she'd landed the perfect job through the WINZ Flex-wage subsidy. However, she didn't qualify for the subsidy because she was 65. What made matters worse, she says, is being told by a case manager she was too old for the job anyway. This comes as the Ministry of Social Development is under increasing scrutiny for how it treats beneficiaries. Kei a John Boynton te roanga ake o nga korero. (GENTLE ELECTRONIC MUSIC) The South Auckland suburb of Manurewa is a place that's seen better days. But to 65-year-old Donna Te Huia, it's home sweet home. Since I've been here and gotten to know Manurewa quite a bit, it's awesome. I love it. Donna is a pensioner who wants to work, and she came across a job she thought was just the right fit. One day I was up walking up the streets in Manurewa and I saw one of the ambassadors and I thought, 'Oh my gosh, that looks nice ` the uniform. I wonder what she does.' So I stopped her and I asked her what she was doing. Then I asked her how to get on to that job. And then she told me to see the work broker over at Manurewa WINZ. After going through the interview process, Donna got a job here at the Manurewa Business Association, working 30 hours a week on minimum wage on a six-month contract. In her job as town ambassador, Donna would walk up and down the streets here in the Manurewa Town Centre helping people to find shops, helping them to cross the road, looking out for any graffiti or antisocial behaviour and helping to keep the streets nice and tidy. Donna says it was a job that was perfect for her. It was just to go around to make sure that the community looked safe, that there weren't people loitering around the car parks. Yeah, just helping people, which I love doing. I loved it, yeah. Good morning, ladies. Morning. Donna quickly got to know local shop owners through her role, which is part of Work and Income's Flexi-wage subsidy. The Flexi-wage subsidy sees WINZ subsidise the wages of employees ` in this case Donna's wages at the Manurewa Business Association. Beneficiaries sign up to the scheme as a way to gain work or to upskill and train for future employment. So I was getting... for 30 hours, I was getting good money. I thought it was good money. 450 bucks a week. I was rapt with that. However, just two weeks into her new job, she was told by her WINZ work broker because she was 65, she didn't actually qualify for the subsidy. I even told him to stop my benefit, my pension. I said, 'Can you stop that so I can keep working?' And they go, 'No, we can't.' What did you love about working in your community? Just the thought of helping ` young, old, just helping anybody. The abrupt termination stung even more for Donna when she said a case manager told she was too old for the job anyway. You know what it's like when your blood boils, eh? (CHUCKLES) But I didn't go there. I just went, 'OK,' took it like a woman and just said, 'OK, then. Well, it's been nice. Can I finish off tomorrow,' which was Friday. And he goes, 'Oh, yes, finish off the week, and then that's it.' Kathleen Paraha is the co-chair for the advocacy group Auckland Action Against Poverty, or AAAP. She's seeing more and more kaumatua being turned away by Work and Income. They're scared of WINZ because they've got case managers telling them off ` 'You can't have this. You can't have that.' For God's sake, they're the elderly. At least pay some respect, you know? Are these today's one? They've all be done, yep. And I've got the paperwork? Yep. Kathleen knows Donna through her volunteer work with AAAP and says Work and Income is sending mixed messages to people wanting to work. When she first told me about it, she cried. She says, 'All I want to do is... give my part back.' That's what she wanted to do. 'I want to go to work.' She doesn't` 'I'm capable, Kath,' she says. 'I'm capable. 'I'm still walking. I'm still fit. But I'm too old.' Who are they to tell her she's too old? Mark Goldsmith is the Auckland regional commissioner for the Ministry of Social Development. He said signing Donna up to the subsidy was a mistake. First of all, I really want to acknowledge Donna in the fact that she is wanting to work. I think that's absolutely fantastic. The legislation for Flexi-wage is actually 18 to 64. In this case, she was outside that age bracket. Donna says what made the situation worse for her was being told by a case manager she's too old. What's your response to that? I would hope that didn't happen. I'm hoping that this is a perception situation. But look, I don't think our team would be telling people, 'You're too old to work.' But for Kathleen Paraha, these attitudes aren't just a perception, they're a reality. It's about toxic culture, I guess. They're sending the elderly out crying. She says it hurts her to see kaumatua being turned away. For them not to be able to cope is just unbelievable. Especially my own people. I can hear the hurt in your voice. How come it hurts so much? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. To get people coming in here asking for food... It doesn't take much to give them food. The Ministry of Social Development is under fire for its treatment of beneficiaries, with people lining up from 2 in the morning to receive advocacy support. I know some of you haven't felt comfortable coming to MSD by yourself and have preferred to have an advocate. We want to strengthen that relationship, so that you do feel comfortable with the Ministry of Social Development. How does it make you feel to see those lines outside WINZ? Look, as a New Zealander, I don't think any of us like what that looks like. And I don't really see a need for it. If you really want to see an advocate on a Thursday, you can make an appointment. There's no need to wait in the cold before a service centre's even open. Mark Goldsmith doesn't believe there's a culture problem at WINZ. I don't see a toxic culture. I see people that are working hard. And at the end of the day, perception is something that we need to work on. And how do you work on that? Look, doing the best thing possible ` like treating people with dignity, respect. Since Donna came forward with her story, Mark says MSD is now working with her to help her towards her goal of becoming a security guard. That was what she wanted. You know, we do ` we sincerely apologise. We didn't get it right. But what we're focused on now is actually getting Donna into the opportunity of her choice. Even though Donna's making progress now, Kathleen believes it's a situation she and other pensioners shouldn't have to face. If they want to work, I can't see why people should stop them, because that's probably what keeps them alive and keeps them active. Donna wants to make sure Work and Income does treat pensioners with respect and isn't putting barriers in their way. I really just don't want them doing the same thing to anybody else. That's all. It's not fair. Kia mau tonu mai ra e te iwi. Whai muri i nga whakatairanga ka korero matou ki te Minita Whakahiato Tangata. Auraki mai ano. A growing number of New Zealanders are doing it tough. Nearly 490,000 people applied for hardship grants from Work and Income New Zealand in the last financial quarter. And it's a trend that seems to be growing. Last month a welfare advisory expert panel recommended 42 changes to WINZ, including lifting benefits, building cultural competency and improving outcomes for Maori. So to find out how they're tracking, I'm joined by Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. Tena koe. Tena koe, Mihi. Just firstly on the new this weekend at Ihumatao, has the government done a U-turn? Well, I think the government's listened to all involved and wants to come up with a reasonable resolution, and our prime minister's been very clear about that. You are the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, and the Stonefields Reserve, which is not gonna be built on but is next door to, is a Category 2 status under Heritage... Is it worth protecting? Oh, look, no one would dispute the fact that this is a very significant place. I am the Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, but I don't have a lead on this particular issue. But as I said, the government is focused and committed to coming up with a resolution here. And I think the announcement last night from the prime minister indicated that very clearly. How do you balance it, I guess, with development, the need for housing, and the need to protect our culture, our heritage, and archaeological sites like that? Well, that's where it becomes, I guess, very complex. And that's why further time is going to be taken to talk to all those involved, to try and come up with a resolution. Do you think your ministry will be involved in these talks? Ministry of Arts, Culture and Heritage, I know for sure that they've been contacted about this issue, as have a range of other ministries. I'm not directly involved as a minister, but as a government, we're committed to coming up with a resolution. Do you think there's an option to... Because the issue for them is that they think there's going to be housing development on the back door of a pretty significant land, is there any room to push that out? I don't want to pre-empt what the resolution or resolutions might be here, Mihi. I think it's just very positive that the government has committed to working with people and coming up with that resolution, which I think is the most important step forward at this point in time. But that doesn't mean that we've got the answers today. Ministers have been going out over the weekend. Would you go out there? Have you been out? Look, I've been on the phone with ministers. I know that Minister Henare is out there, Minister Jackson's out there. Our local MP, Aupito William Sio is out there. I don't think we need to flood the space with MPs just for the purpose of doing that. I think it's important that the primary MPs, ministers that are involved are present. And so we'll take direction from them. Ka pai. Let's talk about benefits. A fairly large number of New Zealanders are requiring hardship and emergency housing grants. Cash flow seems to be the issue. If you've got 600 bucks and your rent's 600 bucks, there's not a lot left for anything else. Why are you resisting raising benefits? Oh, look, just going back to what you were saying, in terms of the hardship grants and then drawing that connection to rents, what we're seeing is, where the cost of housing is high, that's where we see significant grants being given out as well. So that connection is really important. I have said, with regards to the 42 recommendations that came through the Expert Advisory Group's report that there would be a phase one and phase two. Phase two is where we get to consider the bulk of what's in that report. We acted as quickly as we could on some things ` so, indexation of main benefits, lifting abatement thresholds and then also repealing Section 192, as well as a range of other work happening. But we do really need to think through things very carefully, because when you move something in the welfare system, then it can have a knock-on effect. And we want to make that there's no unintended complic` implications, because what could happen is people could be worse off. So we have to just work very carefully through this space. Yet giving people more money wouldn't mean that they would ever be worse off, would they? If you're not taking into consideration, perhaps, I don't know, Working For Families, if you're not also looking at tax, if you're not also looking at the criteria for supplementary support, then potentially they could be. And so that's why it's important that you don't look at one thing isolated from the rest of the system otherwise those unintended implications kick in. Not raising benefits, though ` isn't that a bit of a false economy, because emergency housing has increased by 200%. So you're paying, the taxpayer's paying twice as much for motels and lodges, when you could just be putting the money in people's pockets. I think we do need to reflect back on that we have been putting the money in people's pockets, Mihi ` maybe not in the form that you're referring to right now. But there was the $5.5-billion injection through the Families Package, which will see 370,000 families better off by $75 per week when it's fully rolled out. Things like repealing Section 192 will see some of the poorest households better off by, I think, on average $34 per week. And then, of course, indexation on top of that has an impact, and things like abatement thresholds. So it's not that nothing's going on to actually lift the income of the people that we're talking about here. It's just that in the form that you're referring to, it hasn't actually been addressed yet. So that's part of the consideration in phase two. I don't think anyone's saying that you haven't done anything in this area. But nearly 490,000 hardship grants have been applied for. That's a record. Mm, yeah, but when we came into government, Mihi, we knew the hardship was there. And our commitment was to responding to that demand and making MSD a place where people would feel confident that they could go for that support and they would get that support. And we're seeing that. Yes, we're seeing that in increased applications, but we're also seeing that with regards to the amount the people are getting. So that was our initial response. We will give people what they are eligible for and support those experiencing hardship. And I think we're seeing that happen. It is tough for you, though, because KiwiBuild hasn't provided the homes that everyone had thought. So, I guess, what is the long-term plan, in terms of getting people out of emergency housing and those situations? Well, public housing is an obvious focus of ours. I think we've already seen something like 2300 more places, and the aim was, within four years, 6400. And so we're tracking, with respect to that. Is there more that needs to be done in the housing space? Absolutely. And our housing ministers wouldn't dispute that. But we've got a whole team working on that now. And, I guess, we're playing catch-up because of the fact that even the existence of a housing crisis was completely denied for almost a decade, and now it's our job to respond to that. How could the private sector support the government's initiatives? Well, I think the government's working with property developers and others to be able to build the houses that are required. But it doesn't happen overnight. It is a long process. And the main thing is that we know that the wheels are turning. It's just how quickly we can do that. In the expert report, it talks about cultural competency and lifting the outcomes for Maori. What are some of the ideas that you're coming up with, in terms of being able to target those` where you're lacking there? Yeah, we've got our Maori Advisory Group, who feed into this. But also recognising we've got a large number of Maori staff ` 7000 staff across the country, a large proportion are Maori. I think that the report also said that sometimes they're not in the right positions, though, across different tiers. Oh, but working particularly with the case managers, who are at the front line, to find out how we can do things better, where there are particular policies that need to be looked at, and also, of course, through the reference groups that we've established, and the consultation that we've been doing, finding out from our key stakeholders, the clients that are actually coming in themselves, how we can respond to their needs. In the last week, I think it was, we launched the Heartbeat survey ` so, 100,000 people being surveyed each month. And that survey's not just one for the sake of saying we're doing it. It actually will help inform our practice, moving forward. Will you release the information? We're looking to how we have an external view of that. And so obviously internally, how do we use that, is our primary consideration, to make sure our practice is good. But also, certainly, looking to make sure that we have an external view of that, so that the public can see how we're tracking. And report the results. Yeah, and in lots of ways we're looking at how we can report better what MSD is doing. We've got a perception issue, which has been touched on previously, which has been built up over decades, not over a couple of years. And I think transparency of information and keeping the public in sight of what we're doing and what we're attempting to do here is really important. Just quickly, before we go, there's a pilot scheme targeting 3000 drivers ` you want to get them licences. Who are you targeting? So, actually, it was first launched last year in October, and so since October we've had over 1000 people go through. It's been so successful` What are the benefits? The benefits are particularly targeting young people in low-decile schools. Chamber of Commerce is working with us. And then also young people who get pulled over. So keeping them out of the system. Keeping them out of the justice system. Because we know for many people, young people in particular, their first interaction with the justice system will be licence-related. But we know what it does for confidence, and we know what having a licence does for employability as well. And so I think it's a really positive initiative, and the feedback we've got from young people has been pretty awesome. Tena koe. Thanks for coming in. Kia ora. Hei tera wiki, he kaupapa wetiweti. This close-knit community is in crisis. Someone pulled a gun and shot a child. It is a very serious incident, which we're committed to solving. No one has been held responsible for an unprovoked shooting at a young boy. We are high-population Maori here. And it's like low priority when we get shot. This rural village's peace and security shattered by a gunman who still remains at large. I won't walk down our street until this is sorted, because you just don't know what could happen. A whanau are frustrated that justice hasn't been served. I wanna know why something's not done. A child has been shot. A gun's a gun. Any gun can kill someone, but it's the fact that this isn't an accident. Did you ever think that this could happen in this neighbourhood? No. I never, ever thought anything like this would have happened. Kua hikina Te Hui mo tenei ra. You'll find links to our stories on our Facebook and Twitter accounts or at newshub.co.nz. Newshub Nation's next. Pai marire ki a tatou katoa. Captions by James Brown. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. The Hui is made with support from NZ On Air.