Kei nga ihoiho o nga maunga whakahi, kei nga wai whakatere taniwha, nau mai, tahuti mai ki Te Hui. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e mihi atu nei ki a koutou katoa. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` National Party leader Simon Bridges on the attack over Ihumatao, standing up for property rights or trampling the rights of Maori? Right now Fletchers owns it, and if I look around New Zealand, we have a situation where this government` Well, in a sense, one of their big issues was on the back of housing. And we follow former politician Tuariki Delamere as he undergoes life-saving surgery. Recovery will take quite a while cos they're cutting quite a bit out, but other than that ` hey, you're alive. # Whakaaria mai...# And we farewell Mahuru Maori with a special waiata from reo enthusiasts ` Daniel and Ashley. # Tiaho mai. # Ra roto i te po. # Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 Kara iho iho mai. National Party leader Simon Bridges has launched another stinging attack over the occupation of Ihumatao, accusing the Prime Minister of having a blatant disregard for property rights, and asserting the protesters should be told to go home. I spoke to Mr Bridges about his views on Ihumatao, and whether full and final treaty settlements are just. I began by asking the importance of understanding our history. I think it's really important that we know our history. I mean, I was very influenced from a young age, remember, I think it was fifth form that we did New Zealand Wars. And I remember James Belich's book, I've still got it, actually, the same copy. I think it's important that we know our history. Your predecessor, Sir John Key, he said in 2014 that New Zealand was settled peacefully. Was he wrong? Uh, yeah, he was. We weren't settled peacefully. I mean, I think it's like any country's history ` there is the good, the bad and the ugly. And we shouldn't shy away from that. I think what is important when we tell our history in New Zealand schools, is that it is balanced, is from all perspectives. It has a very clear sense of the grievance that will be there, in relation to our civil war and what's happened there. But also the positives that have come from that, and a Pakeha perspective as well. So how would you like to see it roll out, I guess? Would it be regional, would it be a national narrative, a national perspective? I see this as a national thing. I will make the point that I was asked about this off the cuff at Waitangi day at Waitangi day this year. I think before the Prime Minister or anyone else had given a view, I said we should do this. I think that cleared a safe space, if you like, for the government to move into it, and it is a very good thing. My view on curriculum generally ` whether it's maths, whether it's English or whether it's New Zealand's, Aotearoa's, history is that it should be a national thing. I don't think we want one kind of thing taught in one classroom and another in another. There may be room for regional difference. For example, in Waikato you might expect to see some of that flavour of the Waikato Wars coming through. But on the whole, you'd want people to be learning about New Zealand Aotearoa's history around the country. Do you see` Do you have any concerns around, say for example, where you've spent some time in Tauranga with such divided perspectives, I guess, on how New Zealand was settled. How would you strike a balance? I don't have concerns about it. I think we should, in a sense, embrace it. Cos there are differences. And I suppose that's the point I was making about balance. Now, balance doesn't mean 50% one side, 50% the other, right? It's not what I'm suggesting, but I think you've mentioned Tauranga, let's talk about the Battle of Gate Pa. You know, there are different interpretations of these things. I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, I think historians would make that point. He or she who writes the history, in a sense, well, they write it. They get to set the narrative, and we'd want to make sure different perspectives were being heard so that New Zealanders from all ethnicities could make up their own mind on these things. What we don't want to do, and this is why I'm for it, is be ignorant and have no sense of it. No other country's going to be teaching our history. It's only going to happen here.' It's a good segue, I think, to probably Ihumatao, which is one of our most historic places. You've said in the past that the government doesn't give much care to property rights. What did you mean by that? Well, simply, that right now Fletchers owns it, and if I look around New Zealand, we've got a situation where this government, well, in a sense, won, and one of their big issues was on the back of housing. Well, we're 480 houses down with this. I'm not a cultural or historical Neanderthal. I think I've just shown that with the comments that I'm making. But right now, in this place where we are, I think we can treat the historical and cultural issues and what is there at Ihumatao sensitively while also getting on with ensuring that there are private property rights, that Fletchers gets to do what it purchased the land for, and that is build some houses. There were property rights in 1863 when the land was confiscated, though, so whose property rights win here? I understand exactly what you are saying, but what is also true is 25-some years ago, Jim Bolger and Doug Graham set up a full and final treaty settlement process. It's incredibly important. They set the rules back then. They are the rules that we have played by, and they have been full and final` Were they fair? Were they fair? Well, people have` Because it was the National Party that set them up, and they settled for something like 2%. Would you be expecting Fletcher to settle for 2% now? Well, I believe they were fair, but I make this point to you ` well, ultimately we need rules. They're the ones we've operated under for 25 years. These are wider, and I think the most important point I'll make in our discussion, and it's this ` New Zealanders strongly support the full and final treaty settlement process. But there's a social licence around that, and I say, if we at Ihumatao change that, and re-open that, we will be trashing that social licence on full and final treaty settlements. The National Government was warned at the time. There were plenty of Maori who said, 'There's no such thing as full and final.' The late great Eva Rickard said, 'You're going to have problems in the future.' The next generation won't accept this. The treaty is a living document. And so does Sir Jim Bolger. He's raised the question whether full and final can ever be. The very man who was architect of the policy. He's got a whole lot of perspectives, my friend Jim, these days, including` But you named him. Including working on working groups for this government, and good for him. But you named him. You're the one who said it was full and final, but it's actually, in fact, it's not. Absolutely. I give you my perspective, where it's pretty simple ` New Zealanders support full and final. They support where we're at. If we re-opened the rules that are in place, that have been there for 25 years around full and final treaty settlement processes` and let's cut to the chase on this ` around private property, and that being part of that process, I think it will destroy the social licence on treaty settlements. I think it will lead to a very divisive set of issues in New Zealand. Was it fair at the time, 25 years ago? Because it appears to me that you're saying, '25 years ago, we've got to think about that.' 'That's what it was.' But how long do you go back to history? What is fair because those people out there at Ihumatao, the mana whenua, are saying it's not fair. Well, let's be blunt about it. Take where I'm from, we talked about Tauranga, take the wider areas that have some knowledge of, and indeed, whakapapa to around the King Country and the Waikato, the reality of that is much of that land was taken in situations where there will be different perspectives. Where some will say` Well, I think there's only one perspective there that it was confiscated in the wars. Yep, let's acknowledge the confiscations and the like. That's what I'm saying to you ` is it fair? Is the full and final that you're talking about fair for 1.3 million ha of confiscated land from our iwi, from Waikato, is that fair? And how can you` I think the rules` People are questioning that now. I think the rules that were put in place 25 years ago were fair and reasonable, and my simple point to you, Mihi, and to New Zealanders, ultimately is, if we re-open that, if we re-open the issue of private land that some will argue for, acknowledging the points you've made around confiscation very different perspectives, but yes, a dominant perspective on confiscations that there are, here's what we'll have. We'll have a situation in the area I'm familiar with of the upper North Island, where everything is up for grabs. And the social licence on full and final treaty settlement processes` What do you mean by up for grabs? You're talking about a settlement process where Maori have got no more than 2%, and now you're using phrases like 'up for grabs'. Pretty simple. You made the point around the Waikato there will be many views about confiscations. I don't want to go there. I don't think New Zealanders ` most New Zealanders ` Pakeha or Maori want to go there. We've had a process for 25 years. The Prime Minister, by sticking her oar in at Ihumatao, by having secret negotiations with the Kingitanga, is setting an appalling precedent that does re-open or could potentially, certainly if there's a transaction here, full and final treaty settlement process. Some may think that's a good thing. I certainly don't. And I don't think most New Zealanders do. Just want to quickly jump into ` you've had a crack at the Prime Minister over her position on climate change on the world stage. Had you have had that platform, what would you have said on climate change? Uh, pretty simple. I would've raised it with Donald Trump. But the reason I have, in your words, the crack at the Prime Minister is simple ` she's the one who said it's our nuclear-free moment. She's the one seeking to appeal to the woke-progressive left around the world. She's the one who said, you know, it's a cop-out. We don't have the luxury of the cop-out on these issues. When she had the chance to raise it with the most important figure in the world ` the leader of the free world, the President of the United States ` she didn't Are we in a climate emergency? No. I think it's an important issue. I think we need to make progress, but I think calling it a climate emergency, firstly, is factually inaccurate, but secondly, creates a huge amount of worry, of anguish amongst young people that I don't think is productive. Simon Bridges, there, leader of the opposition. Not sure the tens of thousands that protested in the last week would've agreed with that. Hei muri i nga whakatairanga, he kaupapa hauora noreira kia mau tonu mai ra te titiro. Auraki mai ano. He represented New Zealand in track and field, and in 1996 Tuariki Delamere made political history when New Zealand First took a clean sweep of the Maori seats. Despite having no political experience, Tuariki Delamere was fast-tracked into Cabinet holding a number of ministerial portfolios. But if that was a tough gig, he could never have imagined what lay ahead. The former Associate Minister of Health has found himself at the business end of his old portfolio, fighting for his life against aggressive bladder cancer. He invited The Hui to record his battle against the disease and while it's knocked him for six, he says he's not out yet. It's a brisk winter's morning in Tamaki Makaurau,... Bye! Bye. Bye, Weihana. ...and politician turned immigration consultant Tuariki Delamere is heading into his office to make an announcement. I'm going to be, pretty much, away most of the next two months. A former athlete and politician, Tuariki is in a race against time. He's been diagnosed with cancer. Anyway, just want you all know I am grateful for all the support, and we'll see what happens. So anyway. We're gonna beat it. Eh, Dad? Since Tuariki leaving the beehive in '99, Tuariki's been working in immigration ` a job he loves. He's always been fit and healthy, but recently he started waking during the night to use the wharepaku. So he went to see his doctor, Andrew Wong. About 3 months ago, I felt something wasn't quite right, so he was a bit worried, so he sent me to get an ultrasound scan. That confirmed I had an enlarged prostate. So they scheduled me for what they call a TURP surgery, but when they were up there, they discovered I had a tumour on my bladder. That tumour was malignant and now he's undergoing invasive surgery to have his bladder removed. This is what I've got for the rest of my life. It will sit there. The positive is that I can sleep through the whole blinking night instead of getting up six times a night. Tuariki will now live with a urostomy bag, but he says it's better than the alternative. As a Maori male, what have you learnt about cancer since you found out? I'm lucky, if Andrew hadn't sent me along, I'd still be sitting here, happy as Larry, and by the time they discovered it, the bladder cancer probably would have perforated and gone out of the bladder ` then I'd be in real trouble because the survival rate, the 5 year survival rate, is less than 5%. He's sharing his story in the hope other Maori men won't be whakama to get the help they need. If this helps someone, it saves even one person then it's worth it because I've seen cousins die who shouldn't have died because they wouldn't go and get checked. His diagnosis came as a shock - especially for his daughter, Alarna, who he lives and works with. He's a good dad. I'm not ready for him not to be here cos I still need him to be my Dad. How did he tell you he had cancer? At first he kind of played like, cos he went in for another operation, and played like, 'Oh, they found a tumour. It's gone.' 'They got it out. It's all good.' And we, kind of, believed him, but it really wasn't. I think he found it difficult to tell us, to be honest. Today the former Associate Health Minister is undergoing life-saving surgery to have his entire bladder removed. It's a big operation. Morena. Morena. How are you feeling? Oh, pretty good right now. Don't ask me in 8 hours time. How about you? Good. Hasn't really soaked in, really. Recovery will take a while because they're cutting quite a bit out, but once it settles down, I mean, it's inconvenient, but, other than that ` hey, you're alive. Although Maori men get cancer at the same rate as tauiwi, they are one and a half times more likely to die from it. As he heads into surgery, Tuariki is determined not to be one of them. I check in with the patient the following day. Kia ora. Hello, my dear. Morena. Morena. Is this your support crew? This is` Yes, this is Sarah & Lucy. Kia ora. Hi, how are you? Lucy worked for me for a few years, unfortunately. Well, tino ora to hanga. You're looking good. Ae. And so how do you feel? It's a big operation. Oh, yeah, its massive. The scar goes from there to here. A stoma here, and that's for life. But I sleep through the night now, don't have to get up six times a night. Do you feel lucky? Relieved and lucky. I owe my doctor, Andrew Wong, a lot. He was just suspicious of something, and once it started coming through for me` Yeah, just do it. Whatever needs to be done, just do it. One month after his radical surgery, I catch up with Tuariki to see how he's adjusting to life without a bladder. Right now I'm feeling great. Up till this weekend, every time I sneezed, it felt like somebody shot me in the bloody stomach. That's gone. Little bit there, but... being able to walk a lot more freely now. I'm no longer falling asleep in the afternoon. So, yeah, everything's on track. And daughter Alarna knows just how lucky he's been. If he hadn't listened to his doctor, he'd be terminal. I believe that. Tuariki hopes by sharing his experience, other men will seek the help they need ` a message too many still aren't receiving. Well, in the last three weeks I've had four cousins pass away, and I'm pretty sure at least three of the four they probably didn't seek medical treatment in time, and that's what this is about, not just for my whanau, for all kiwis, especially, in this case, for men ` for goodness sake go get yourselves tested. Better to be alive than too late. After the break a special waiata to farewell Mahuru Maori. Musicians Daniel Chung and his wife Ashley whakapapa to Korea, but Aotearoa is their home and te reo Maori is a language they love. Daniel encouraged Ashley to sing in Maori to connect with her new home after moving here from Australia. The pair have now become internet sensations, combining their love of music and te reo by singing a range of waiata on their social media platforms. And they join me now - tena korua. Hello, kia ora. Kia ora. What has it meant to sing in te reo Maori? How has that connected you to Aotearoa? So yeah, cos Ashley's from Australia, when she moved to New Zealand, I wanted to teach her something about New Zealand. And, you know, I grew up here, lived here for more than 15 years, and I realised that I don't know much about New Zealand, so... Cos we both studied music, and we were like, 'Why don't we start, you know, singing in Maori.' So that can be a good starting point to just learn about New Zealand. It's a different sounding language, te reo Maori, and when you sing, you actually ` you actually, you know, your 't's are right on task. It's beautiful. How did you` Did you have to think much about that? At first, I didn't really know much, but I realised that it's quite similar to Korean. So I tried to remember that the vowels do sound like Korean, and I get little tips from people on the comments, or like private message, saying it's actually that 'duh' sound. Oh, yes. Yes, so I tried to remember that. It's kind of like learning by correspondence, by feedback. Yes. (CHUCKLES) So, and I guess you would be listening to lots of te reo Maori being sung. Who would be some of the people you've listened to? Um, so, Maisey Rika has been one of them, and` Do you just love her? (LAUGHS) I do love her. Have you met her? No, not yet. (LAUGHS) But I do listen to her because she's got a nice voice` Can I try that again? (LAUGHS) She's got a beautiful voice. Yeah, she's got a voice that's really beautiful, and also it's really clear to practice with, so I do listen to her a lot. So it's been Mahuru Maori, and you guys have been invited to perform some places. Tell us about that. Where have you been? Mm. Well, this year when we had Matariki, there was a Matariki festival happening, so we performed in Hamilton library this year, and then we also had Maori Language Week, so we performed in Rotorua when they also had a festival there. Are you surprised by the reaction, the success? Yeah. (LAUGH) Because we didn't expect that to come at all. We're just singing, and people like, 'OK, why this much?' And you performed in Whakatane at the marae, what is it like ` you know, Whakatane is a community where 50% of the community is Maori and lots of reo speakers there. What's it like singing in front of reo Maori speakers? I'm always nervous to perform in front of Maori people because I don't actually speak te reo Maori, but I try my best. And I do look forward to studying the language at some point. So that's next for you, you think, learning te reo? Yes. Because as we get to know more about it, we just realise, 'Oh, we don't know much about it.' We just learnt a little bit, and then we know that, 'Oh, we need to learn more about it.' So you're on your journey. What's your advice to other New Zealanders who might not know much about te reo Maori and Maori things? Well, I think people like to do something that interests them to do it, but actually, we just were like, 'Oh, why don't we try it?' So if you just try it, you know, you might ` like us ` do it more often. So, I guess, just try it. Don't be afraid to, you know, start something new. Try it or sing it. Yeah. (CHUCKLES) Sing it. Thank you so much for coming on today. Te na a korua. Coming up on The Hui ` she's the stay-at-home Mumma, turned Instagram celebrity. I would say I'm an influencer. (PHONE SNAPS PHOTO) I'm a mum. (SHUSHES) I'm a wife. How are you feeling, babe? Eh? I'm a modern-day women. Zoe Fuimaono has transformed her social media following into a lucrative online business. I'm with the amazing Zoe. Hi, guys. It's been amazing. I had to learn everything on my own, though. I haven't been to university. I haven't done marketing. How do I do this? I just learnt it. Her life raising two sets of twins is now a powerful lifestyle brand ` 'Blessed in Doubles'. Hei whakakapi i te hotaka anei a Daniel raua ko Ashley me te waiata 'Te Rina'. Noho ora mai ra. (SOFT GUITAR) # Terina, # aue Terina. # Tipu e rea, # Terina e, # Kaua e huri ke. # Ko koe ra # Taku nei raukura # Ma tau aroha # E rau o taku # Titapa e. # Terina. # aue Terina. # Tipu e rea, # Terina e. # Kaua e huri ke. # Ko koe ra # taku nei raukura. # Ma tau aroha # E rau o taku # Titapa e. # Ma tau aroha # E rau o taku # Titapa e. # Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangi Paho. The Hui is made with support from New Zealand On Air.