Captions by Lillie Balfour. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2020 Tonight on Sunday ` a magical story of hope, love and life. I've been waiting 20 years for this moment. It had seemed like an impossible situation,... I, T, it. It's a (BLEEP)ing lonely existence. ...but with love and determination.... Any talk of making me an uncle? ...life changed forever. So, you aren't just pregnant, are you? (CHUCKLES, SNIFFLES) How prepared are you? We're not. (LAUGHS) You're not? LAUGHS: Not really. I can't remember being this excited. About a thousand different recipes. There's a couple in there for Wuhan coronavirus. Plus ` crisis and conspiracy. I am sceptical, and I also am suspicious. If I disappear or have a fricken' weird accident, it wasn't an accident, OK? What's driving the disbelievers? No longer will we be programmed! (SMASH!) It seems more about control than preventing the spread of the virus. And civil rights leader Jesse Jackson speaks out. Have you been surprised by the size and the scale of the reaction around the world? Kia ora, I'm Miriama Kamo. Nick Chisholm was living life to the fullest until he suffered a massive stroke. For 20 years, Nick has lived with locked-in syndrome. He can't move or speak, but his mind is fully aware. Now, Nick is our reporter Matt Chisholm's brother. Over the years, the brothers have opened their lives, showing us their challenges and triumphs. And tonight, Matt's sharing what he calls his favourite story ever. Here he is with Nick and wife Nicola's incredible news. (SOFT PIANO) I've been waiting 20 years for this moment. I honestly never thought it would happen. I never even thought it was a possibility. Hey, little man. Brace yourself, boysie. Brace yourself, young fella. 'This is my big brother, Nick.' Good to see you, ya bugger. 'We've been on a journey together for a long time.' Good to see ya, mate. And to appreciate that journey, you need to understand who Nick is, and where he's come from, what he had, and what he lost. (BEEP) that was stylish. Thanks for coming. It's been a bungee of two halves. At 27, Nick threw himself in to everything. He had a beautiful girlfriend. Life was sweet. Then, out of the blue, he collapsed playing footy and everything changed from there. He'd had a massive brain stem stroke. He didn't die, but came out of a coma unable to speak, eat, breathe properly, or move. Nick has locked-in syndrome. It's rare. His mind is fully alert, but his body unresponsive. I've been beside him for much of it. 'S-H-I` shit. 'Space. Scared.' So, you were shit scared. 'But there were some things I couldn't do.' 'This was the harsh reality.' 'I-T` it's. 'It's a (BLEEP)ing lonely existence.' But that's the thing about my amazing brother ` probably the most influential person in my life. His outlook is such a bloody inspiration. (LAUGHS) While he'd made great strides, it seemed his future was mapped out. 'But after nine lonely years, from the other side of the world, 'a life unexpected came hurtling his way.' Did you think you'd ever find love again? 'N-O.' No, no one wants a guy with a Mohawk or stupid lines on their face, Let alone a guy that can't walk or talk and dribbles. A school teacher from England, Nicola Kolb had fallen in love, and so had Nick. When they met in the flesh, I was there too. 'I just want... 'H-O` hold. 'Space. 'Y-O-U. (LAUGHS)' Well, we've have to wait until they've gone. (CHUCKLES) They're going soon. I'll give you a hug. Now, mate, from past conversations we've had, I know that you're good to go downstairs. 'R-U-S` no rushing.' What do you see in him? Well, first of all, obviously it's because he's so handsome and different, and he always makes laugh ` most of the time. (LAUGHS) (ALL LAUGH) (REGAL MUSIC) In 2015, this happened. I have great pleasure in pronouncing you husband and wife. You may kiss each other. (CROWD APPLAUDS, CHEERS) (WOLF WHISTLES) Why take all this on? Nick, kind of, just makes me happy. Really happy. Any talk of making me an uncle? 'Life S space O-N` only just beginning.' 'Shh!' Shh! I asked at your wedding ` any chance of making me an uncle? (BOTH LAUGH) I think you said something like 'life's just beginning.' I asked him if he was happy, and he said 'I've got one regret, and that's that I'm not a dad.' And I said, 'Well, why? What's stopping you?' (BOTH LAUGH) And again, he was like, 'Oh, cos I can't roll around on the floor and play and do things like a normal` 'well, a dad would do.' But I said there's more to being a dad than just rolling around on the floor. I think a lot of people will be quite surprised to learn that, Nick, you are good to go. (LAUGHS) So to speak. We say that we're doing IVF, and then Nick will go, 'It's not me though, it's her.' (ALL LAUGH) It's a terribly personal question, but I am family. Why weren't you able to get pregnant, do you think? Just age. Nick is 46, Nicola 47, and that means they needed a younger woman's eggs. The best option for them ` San Diego. But after seven trips... We were like, 'Oh, that's it. This is the last time.' ...they were no further ahead. When we had a cycle that failed, we were` we would be devastated, wouldn't we? And then our way of coping would be to plan the next trip. That was our like our coping mechanism of we'll just` we'll try again. So, try again they did. This was definitely going to be our last time. And after dropping more than 100 grand on fertility treatment, went for their eighth and final attempt in September last year. And then our nurse, she Facebooked us. And we were in the mall, weren't we? We'd just finished lunch in the mall. And then she sent us a picture of her holding up a banner saying 'you're pregnant', which was quite cute, eh? So after everything you've been through, how was that moment? It was quite surreal, eh? LAUGHS: We were in the middle of the mall crying. 'S-T-I` still I` is.' Yeah, it still is. Yeah. Really surreal. Really is. Hey, guys. Right. Let's have a little look... So, you aren't just pregnant, are you? (CHUCKLES) Right. We're just going to have a little look, and see. This is the little heart beating here. So we have two of your babies showing up. Wow! Twins ` that would be nice. Now, this other baby is really quite difficult to see. And then we saw there were three. (LAUGHS) This is a wee bit of the eye. You were just grinning from ear to ear, and I was like, (GASPS), cos I knew. Three ` oh my goodness. These babies are really playing up for the cameras. (LAUGHS) They're definitely Chisholms then ` they like the camera. (ALL LAUGH) Nick, you weren't meant to live, now you're giving life to three young people. How does that feel? 'S-U` surreal.' It's gonna feel very real soon. It is. You Chisholms don't do things by halves, do you? (ALL CHUCKLE) One's full on,... Well, yeah. ...three's gonna be chaotic. (LAUGHS) True. Luckily Uncle Matt's moved closer. (ALL LAUGH) Jeez, don't look too hard at me. (ALL LAUGH) I struggled bringing in one to the world. Life really is about to change for everyone. So, what we've got here ` we've got a couple of changing mats for the wee babes to lie on, and then we were talking about these snuggle baths. Oh, yeah. These are the baths that bubs can sit in. Three car seats to get inside your car. Nick, I'm sure you'll play a role. Have you thought about what your role's going to be? (BOTH LAUGH) 'U-P-P-O` verbal support.' Mm. The only thing he's gonna miss out on is dirty nappies and spews, so. (LAUGHS) Ooh. Thank you. Come on, have a seat. Nicola's due in five weeks. Dunedin obstetrician Barbara Richards has been there from the start. The scan actually looks really good. All three babies are growing really well. Do you think they're crazy? I don't. As a 47-year-old woman with a severely disabled husband who's having triplets, it sounds crazy, but when you get to know them, it's not crazy at all. I think you can't be judgemental. You don't know the situation fully. I'm delighted for them. They're as deserving as anyone is to be a parent, and they have every right, just as anyone else does, to be a parent. (LAUGHS) Not feeling well? Oh, I know. Special woman? Very. Very, yeah. Yeah. Deeply caring and devoted to Nick. Really, really wants to be a mum. They went to the states eight times. Why didn't it work time and time again? I dont think we really know, and I guess that's partly why we've ended up in the situation with a triplet pregnancy. Three embryos transplanted. Do you think that was the right thing to do? I think there would be a lot of people that would say no, but after eight failed implantations I can see why, and I don't blame the clinic for doing so. Whilst triplets wasn't in the plan, I think they're up for a challenge and they will cope. So far so good, but no one knew what was coming. It is risky. I mean, a triplet pregnancy has a significantly increased risk of not having a good outcome. (CROWD MURMURS) (THUD! CROWD APPLAUDS) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) (LIGHT, UPBEAT MUSIC) (WOMAN VOCALISES) MAN: # You're a little light. # You're a little light. # You're a little light. There's a little bit of genius in all of us. All it needs is opportunity,... * The last few months have been a whirlwind, and haven't turned out how anyone wanted. # Hey, brother, # there's nothing in this world I wouldn't do. # The hardest thing for me ` I haven't been able to be part of it. Three months ago, though, and it was all hands to the pump with family and friends doing their bit. Here we go, Nicola. What do you think? Oh, wow. They fit. (LAUGHS) They do. Oh, they look good. Really good. Becomes real, doesn't it, when you see the cots? It's real. Five weeks out... SIGHS: Oh, god. Bloody three babies. ...and the surreal is becoming real. (EXHALES STRONGLY) How prepared are you? We're not. (BOTH LAUGH) You're not? LAUGHS: Not really. We don't know. It's unknown, isn't it? We don't know what's gonna happen. 'Any S-U` suggestions? Have you got any suggestions? (LAUGHS) (BOTH LAUGH) Don't flip this on me. Nicola, one thing I do know is you're gonna be flat out. Mm. Yep. Three babies. And Nick. And Nick. 'E-X-T-R` extremely.' Yep. We know that Nick can be demanding. Mm. You're his wife, I'm his brother. (SNICKERS) Who is going to miss out? (BOTH LAUGH) Nick. I've already told him. (ALL LAUGH) For now though, while Nicola's following doctor's orders and resting... LAUGHS: I'm knackered. You look it. I'm tired and sore. ...Nick is giving it everything he's got. Relaxing some of your arms. Keep that step going. Come on, come on. Good. Physio Mark Shirley has been helping him get back on his feet for 20 years. Nick should potentially be in his wheelchair all the time, right? He's a lot fitter and healthier than other people his age, but with way less ability, right? He's going to be around for his kids? Completely. What sort of a dad do you reckon he'll be? 'Look, I think Chizzy's kids are going to have a very unique life to grow up in to.' I can't wait to, you know, be a small part of this journey. It's going to be fascinating. I mean, a very special dude that's achieved some amazing things. Yeah, it's going to be a wild ride, right? A wild ride that's already been full of highs and lows. 'They asked us if we would consider reducing the pregnancy to two,' or even one, just because with a triplet pregnancy there's a higher chance of losing them. So, it was really hard. What did you decide to do? We'd already decided that we weren't going to do that. weren't we? How could you after trying so hard to get pregnant ` to then consider terminating one of them? (CROWD APPLAUDS) Spend any amount of time with my bro, and you soon figure out that he's an all or nothing kind of guy. Back in 2007, you talked about a F-ing lonely existence. That is all about to change. (LAUGHS) 'D-E` definitely.' (LAUGHS) Yep. A lot of people will think you're crazy. Mm. Nicola, you're 47. Nick, some would say you're disabled. (BOTH CHUCKLE) You're having triplets. Mm. What do you say to those people? It might be crazy to them, but we're happy. What are the chances of you being rushed to hospital any day now? I guess the same with any pregnancy ` you just don't know. You can't plan anything, can you? Prepare to go into isolation as a nation. (BIRDS TWITTER) Lockdown meant I wasn't going anywhere near Dunedin Hospital for the biggest day in Nick and Nicola's lives. (DIAL TONE RINGS) Hello. Hey, guys. How are you feeling about this coronavirus business? Kind of spoiled things a little bit for us. I'm really sorry that I can't be there for the birth. I'm sure it's all going to go swimmingly. Love you to bits. Thank you. # Hey, brother, # there's an endless road to rediscover. # The waiting has been painful, but just last month, and I finally got to see Nicola and Nick. (EMOTIONAL PIANO) Hi. (CHUCKLES) Hi, Nicola. Ohh, so good to see you. Oh, you too. You too. Boysie, so good to see you, mate! (GROANS) I finally got to meet their precious wee miracle bubbas. Come meet your nieces and nephew. I can't remember being this excited. So, this one is Rubi-Soo. She's the firstborn. Oh, she's gorgeous. This one is our little boy, Loki. And then this one is Dakota. Aww. So cute! So, two girls and a boy? Yep. Shall I pick up Dakota, then? Yep, you can pick up Dakota. Ooh, she's very well swaddled. Hello, wee baby. (CHUCKLES) Hello, wee baby. Can I give her a wee smooch? Yeah. Hey, bubba. Oh, you're so warm and cuddly. Jeez, I'm not going to let my boys get anywhere near you for a wee while. I don't want to give her to you. (LAUGHS) Careful with her, Nicola. Christ. (LAUGHS) They're stronger than you think. Who was that? Was that Uncle Matt? I told you he was coming to see you. (GURGLES) Shh, you're OK. I can pick him up for you. No, no. We need to do some bonding. OK, don't spoil him too much. (CRIES) They give us so much hope, don't they? Yep. New life. It's a bit scary too, at this time, with the virus and everything... Mm. ...and the world as it is. Ooh. What? I just felt a little bit of downward pressure on my right hand. I don't think you need me. Aww, hey. Good boy. He hasn't pooped. He hasn't pooped? No. LAUGHS: He farts a lot. Has he not poohed? No. He's got a mean fart on him, though. He has. I've got to do your nappy changing. Cos he can't do it, so you should. I've got to do his share. (LAUGHS) He did one this morning. I did. Oh, you haven't poohed. No, 'course not. That's amazing. Made a good job of that, too, didn't I? Yeah, but you didn't want to get him dressed again. You left him half naked. (ALL LAUGH) He wanted to get his pins out. (LAUGHS) Those little ankle socks are a little bit big at the minute. They're the smallest you can get. (BOTH CHUCKLE) Those aren't socks, they're a small pair of pants. 'This trio were delivered eight weeks premature. 'They've been home for a month. 'What I didn't appreciate was the rough ride Nicola had been on.' Here you go, mama. Thank you. How was the birth for you?) Where do you start? I think every postnatal issue that you could have, I did. I had to go back in to theatre because I was bleeding quite a lot. and I struggled with breathing and I had a little bit of fluid on my lung, and then my blood pressure went up, and then I was still struggling to breathe a little bit so they took me for a CT scan and they found I had blood clots on my lung. I started to bleed again, so I had to go have more surgery just to sort that out. And because of COVID, you had to deal with all of this alone? Mm. How was morale? It was really hard. I was just crying a lot. And Nick, how was all this for you? You couldn't be there. 'T-E-R-R-I` terrible.' Yeah. It was hard, eh? 'Triplets are a tough ask for any family, but this one's thriving.' It's very calm and serene here. How are you managing it? (LAUGHS) He's gonna... 'R-O` routine.' Yep. You've got those babies sedated, haven't ya? (LAUGHS) I reckon you're making it look far too easy. 'M-I` might C-H` change Y-E` yet.' It might change yet. Yeah, it could. It really could. But at the moment, I can't believe how well you're coping. Yep. We've really wanted this for a long time though. Yeah, and it's just awesome. We're just so happy, eh? And so, is Nick helping out? Yep. He thinks he doesn't, but if one of them is crying, I put two in bed with you the other day and they calmed right down, didn't they? How are you enjoying it, Nick? 'L-O-V-E space, 'I love it.' Yeah. Can I just say ` I am so, so proud of you both. We're just doing what we do, eh? 'L-I` living our life.' Yeah, just living our lives. Well, you're making a bloody good job of it. (BOTH LAUGH) Oh, they are so gorgeous. Well done, e te whanau. Just a couple of days ago Nick told us the babies are thriving and parents are extremely happy. 'Life doesn't get any better than this.' Very special. Well, up next ` the virus versus the conspiracy theorists. Science has been bought by vested interests. They're mad as hell. (SMASH) You don't make the decisions for us! What they believe. Is the World Health Organisation the one that does that? Is it the governments? Thank you, New Zealand. We made it to Alert Level 1. We united against COVID-19 and came through, and now it's time to unite for our recovery. We can all unite by buying local to help get our businesses and communities humming, by seeing New Zealand and experiencing our culture and by buying Kiwi-made goods to help local producers thrive. We've shown that we've got this. * Hello, again. They're vocal, motivated and angry. COVID-19 has seen most of us locked down, but some are resisting, calling out what they see as a global conspiracy ` a sinister plot to control our lives. Some go so far as to believe it's all mind games and the virus doesn't exist at all. Liz Hayes finds out what conspiracy theorists think we ought to know. (CROWD CHEERS) There's two things that are important in life ` it's truth, and it's freedom. 'Shocking and horrific fascist lockdown.' COVID-19 has created a perfect storm for conspiracy theorists. Around the world we're seeing them become more vocal and more extreme. Believing that much of what they're being told by the authorities, by the scientific and medical world, by the media is a big fat lie. We want information and we want the truth. The truth doesn't change. Why have we seen this uprising, do you think? People who may never have... Yeah. ...decided to go public with their views are doing that. Why's that? Because some things just don't make sense with this. Some things just don't add up. The theories are as numerous as they are nonsensical. From 5G towers and vaccines spreading coronavirus, to suspicions the virus was unleashed deliberately by Bill Gates, or that a cabal of elites are intent on taking over the world. For most of us, they're ideas that are simply unbelievable. Because they're ulterior motives. Absolutely. But to those leading the charge, we're the crazy ones if we don't start paying attention. It's the level of lies I believe we're being told. Just seeing the way that this thing has unfolded, and the motives of the government and what they're telling everyone to do ` it seems more about control than preventing the spread of the virus. (UPBEAT MUSIC) '37-year-old Fanos Panayides is an ordinary bloke...' Do you feel like a rebel? '...a newcomer to the world of total distrust.' We are here to ask questions and have them answered, because things don't make sense. At a protest a month ago, he took centre stage before being arrested. A dramatic introduction to his new role... Move back! ...as a leader of the anti-lockdown movement. I'm just some dude from Epping, (LAUGHS) to be honest. So, what happened? (CHUCKLES) How did you find yourself in this position? When I felt that... what's going on wasn't totally above board, where I believed the world is moving towards, um, I became concerned. For what? Look, I've always known and believed there are certain controlling interests in the world that are looking towards a one world government, one world currency, and that's a good thing, as long as the people at the top have the people's best interests in mind. Just two months ago, Fanos gave up his job training security guards to set up an online group that now has 60,000 members. Hey, guys. How ya going? And he speaks to them from his lounge room about his fears for the world. We're the people, mate! If we don't want the vaccine. We're the people, not you! You don't make the decisions for us. I was overwhelmed by the amount of people that were in sync with what I was saying. You see this thing here? (SLAPS TV) This thing here's called a television. Tell-a-vision. Believing mainstream media is part of the great deception, Fanos encouraged his supporters to make a showstopping statement. No longer will we be programmed! (SMASH!) He showed them how,... Tell-a-vision. ...tells us what to do. It's a telly-vision. ...and many followed. (CRASH!) (THUD!) What that was, was a protest against the overwhelming lies that the media's been pouring. Well, it won't light, but you get the picture. A protest against mainstream media? Yeah. And here we are. Yeah, I know. Why? (LAUGHS) I said to myself ` look, at the end of the day, if the media want to paint you as something, they're gonna paint you as it anyway so you might as well at least have a voice and just come on and just be you. We all know that a war is going on right now. It's a war about ownership over your body and your mind. When ever there's an event ` a global event, or even a local event, that makes people feel that they have lost control over their lives or their future, that is when conspiracy theories emerge. Pandemics have been giving rise to conspiracy theories for centuries. Professor Stephan Lewandowsky is a cognitive scientist. He studies the way people think, and why they engage in conspiracy theories. For some people, conspiracy theories become very attractive because they're offering psychological comfort, ironically. So, it can't have happened unless somebody or something bad was behind it? Basically. Some people find it much easier to explain big traumatic events by postulating a big, really evil cause for that. (RELAXING PIANO) This, to me, is the life. Is that` (LAUGHS) Is this how you would like it to be? Barefoot, hearing the ocean, having a surf ` I mean, this is` this is what it's about. And it doesn't mean we can't be serious at times. I've been known to be serious occasionally. (BOTH LAUGH) And complicated. Usually with a suit on. (SMOOTH MUSIC) For a long time now, celebrity chef Pete Evans has straddled two very different worlds. Gidday, everyone. Afternoon update ` we have some new podcasts for you. To the more than 1.5 million people who follow him on social media, he's Paleo Pete ` ... And you just replace the buns with mushrooms. ...promoting a diet of low carbs,... What's the breath work called? ...served with a side dish of what he calls expanded consciousness, with a dollop of conspiracy. Are you a sceptic? I... It's a good question ` 'am I a sceptic?' ` because I have a very healthy scepticism about everything. Pete has attracted plenty of suspicion himself with controversial views on everything from sunscreens to dietary advice. If you immerse yourself in a healing modality or healing tool... Most recently, he copped a large fine for spruiking a $15,000 bio-charger lamp... It's programmed with about a thousand different recipes. There's a couple on there for Wuhan coronavirus. ...which he claimed could help those with COVID-19. It's on my website if anyone's interested. His social media pages have also given exposure to some of the more bizarre theories surrounding the virus. You posted, for example, a shot of Bill Gates. Mm-hmm. I mean, do you think he's part of a conspiracy? I don't know, and that's` I don't know. You put that up on your Facebook, for example,... Yeah. ...and why do you do that if you don't buy into it a bit? Because... because what Bill is suggesting, and every single interview that he has done recently, is suggesting that the world will not become safe until every single person on the planet has been vaccinated for this. But what makes you think he can force that, even if he thought that? I... because he seems to be having a lot of influence with certain areas. Just like you, Pete. I don't have the ability to... put something into your body. So, the comparison between me and` I'm not sure Bill Gates can put it into your body either, just quietly. I dunno. Um, I don't know. Is the World Health Organisation the one that does that? Is it the governments? Is it...? Could be a great story for you to look at. (LAUGHS) Well, next ` is it even possible to make non-believers believe? I believe the motives of the world at the moment doesn't make sense at all. It is frustrating that people think it's all one big lie. I hope I'm wrong about all this stuff. You believe the virus exists? I believe it does, from all accounts. I install the new stereo systems, so you can bet I know when something sounds good. And this offer's a banger. It's the Great Toyota Sale. Get... * (ENERGISED MUSIC) Pete Evans is in a place where he feels most at home ` in the surf on the beach under the sun. Enjoying a newfound freedom, and feeling evermore empowered to explore the world away from what he calls the mainstream narrative. My intention is to inhabit a place of everything, so nothing is closed off, you know. And to be in that space, it means you're allowed to ask questions from all sides. Well, maybe I should ask you this ` you believe the virus exists? I believe it does. From all accounts it seems to be that that exists, yes. I ask you that because that's one of the many things that are said in this alternative space ` that the virus simply doesn't exist. Yep. So, you accept that the COVID-19 virus exists? From` To the best of my knowledge at this particular point in time, all the evidence proves or shows, at this point in time, that the COVID-19 virus exists. It's a real thing. Yeah. (DARK TONE) For protest leader Fanos Panayides, the seeds of doubt about coronavirus and the true world order were sewn when he was 12 years old when he made the curious promise to his father that he'd never allow himself to be microchipped. I remember I came in to the house and my dad sat me down and he said, 'there's gonna be a day in the future 'that you're gonna get told to put a microchip in ya.' He goes, 'just listen to my words ` when that day comes, don't you dare put that thing in your body.' Do you know where your father got that idea from? I'm quite sure that it was from something called the prophecy of Saint John that he'd read. As far-fetched as it might sound, Fanos is convinced that day may soon be upon us all. When countries went into lockdown as the virus was sweeping the world, infecting more than 6 million people, Fanos decided the numbers just didn't add up. In my opinion ` do I believe the virus is real? No, I don't. There's no COVID-19 virus? I believe` I believe there's probably a flu going around getting people sick, but I believe the motives of the world at the moment doesn't make sense at all. What would it take to change your mind about the contagious nature of this virus? To see it be contagious. Did you see those pictures in Italy? Have you seen those pictures in New York? Have you...? Does that not tell you, wow, this is a contagious virus? Yeah, but there's media manipulation. And you know what we are? We're just pawns in a big game. I think, particularly with the lockdown, a lot of people have lost their usual routine, their usual structures, their usual support systems, and then when people are more isolated, they've got a bit more time to think, they've got a bit more time to worry ` that also builds anxiety, and leaves people more vulnerable to these dangerous ideas being flouted out there. Doctor Danielle McMullen is President of the New South Wales branch of the Australian Medical Association. Hi. So you're here for your flu vaccine today? Containing the outbreak of conspiracy theories has become another part of her job, particularly during COVID-19 times. Is it frustrating? It's getting repetitive, um, so it is frustrating that people think that we're all out to get you and it's all one big lie, because the health system, nor the healthcare workers working within it, nor the governments in charge of it have anything to gain from this pandemic. So, you obviously don't think Bill Gates is behind all this? I do not think Bill Gates is behind coronavirus, and I also don't think he would have anything to gain through creating coronavirus, nor can we put microchips into people through vaccinations. Let's get that clear. There's no doubt the spread of coronavirus has seen an amplification of fears on so many fronts. And with it, a sense of powerlessness and loss of control that Pete Evans identifies with. You've seen the stories of people that haven't been able to, you know, connect. You know, I shared that I visited my mum through this whole thing, and I love you, Mum. And she probably wouldn't like me saying it, but, you know, she said, 'Oh, I'm` I don't know what to believe.' And I asked her ` I said, 'Mum, can I give you a hug? 'And can your granddaughters give you a hug?' TEARFULLY: And... (VOICE BREAKS) And that ` that action alone, that is what being human is about. And if I have to live in a society where I can't hug my mum because I'm being told it's unsafe... She was allowed to make the decision whether we hugged or not. I said, 'this is your decision, Mum, but we're here for you.' And she (BLEEP)ing needed it. She needed that. And I needed it, and my kids needed it. You know? And... (INHALES DEEPLY) It's that sense of vulnerability that scientist Professor Stephan Lewandowsky sees as giving rise to conspiratorial thinking. Fringe ideas of a small percentage of people given power by social media. Unlike real life, I can go on to social media ` and it doesn't matter how absurd a belief I hold, I will find a community of like-minded people. I can think the Earth is flat. Guess what? I go on Facebook, and out of the billions of Facebook users, a few hundred others will believe what I believe. Now, in real life you can't do that because there's so few of them that you'll never find them. But on social media, you can. Now, that is not a trivial result because what that does is to reinforce people's belief. It makes them more resistant to persuasion. They make unlikely kindred spirits, but both Pete Evans and Fanos Panayides not only share a gut feeling about the world around us, they both say they are prepared to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong about all this stuff. What would it take to show you that you are wrong? We're not tracked and, you know, we're not` We don't become a one world government. No more social distancing. Life goes back to normal. OK. So, it's been a week for us, now, at level one. Meanwhile, Australia has announced it'll loosen its lockdown measures starting next week. Next ` the legendary Jesse Jackson. (BOOM!) (PEOPLE SCREAM) ALL CHANT: I can't breathe. I can't breathe. But can this passionate peacemaker... I am... CROWD: I am... ...somebody. CROWD: ...somebody. ...bring calm to this storm? # Because deep in my heart... # * Nau mai ano. The protests, the marches, the demands for equity and justice are nothing new, and certainly not for the Reverend Jesse Jackson. The revered civil rights leader walked with Doctor Martin Luther King. In the '80s, Jesse Jackson ran twice, unsuccessfully, for President, but you can't help wondering what the US would be like today if he had been elected. Here's Liam Bartlett with Jesse Jackson. I may be poor... CROWD: I may be poor... ...but I am... CROWD: ...but I am... ...somebody. CROWD: ...somebody. (BOOM!) CROWD CHANTS: I can't breathe. I can't breathe. Many of you have given up on being first class citizens. WOMAN: Black lives matter! Black lives matter! Reverend, thank you very much for your time tonight. I know your time is being asked for by literally thousands of people in your own country. Well, you're a priority. We're very grateful, cos you're a very important voice in this whole debate. What was it about the killing of George Floyd that has so inflamed the nation? Floyd was lynched. It was live television, live real-time. He touched something deep in the hearts of people 'round the world. Floyd begging for life. Police officer's knee on his neck for 8 minutes and 56 seconds. The whole world saw it. It touched something profound within us. Have you been surprised by the size and the scale of the reaction around the world? Yes, and I'm delighted. I am. CROWD: I am. Black. CROWD: Black. Beautiful. CROWD: Beautiful. Proud. CROWD: Proud. I must be respected. (CROWD REPEATS) When you were a young firebrand and you were fighting those disgraceful policies of segregation and division, what you wouldn't have given for a mobile phone camera, I suspect. The difference has been the camera because if that young lady had not pulled out her camera, we'd never have known Floyd was killed. They would have lied ` matter of fact, they lied even with a camera rolling. The report was different to what happened. Police have immunity. They have` They're really innocent until proven guilty. But the camera, more and more, is making public their behaviour. Cos I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. (CROWD APPLAUDS) You were there when Doctor Martin Luther King, junior was assassinated in 1968. You were right there. You witnessed the aftermath. 'I asked him ` I said, 'Dr. King, do you hear me?' And he didn't say anything, and I tried to hold his head. I mean, how do the riots and the protests in the wake of Doctor King's killing compare to what we've seen over the past week? So, when Doctor King was killed, he was not that popular. He became popular April 5th, the day after he was killed. And so` but we've grown a lot since then. America's changing fundamentally. I think Trump may be misreading the spirit of America. He's stoked the fires of fear among many whites. Oh boy. Oh boy. Here we go ` oh! (POLICE SIREN RINGS) How much of the public outpouring of anger and frustration is a result of a lack of leadership? A lot of it. PEOPLE CHANT: No justice, no peace. Eradicate the police. Trump has shown no sympathy toward the victims of lynching. That would have been calming. The victim of the lynching? The victim of the lynching. He showed no sympathy toward him. Reverend, you ran for President twice back in the '80s. If you had won, would the country look any different? It would look different today. America is such a deep hole of racial divide, class divide. We've not decided yet to become one society. And I think that sometimes, the success of black athletes puts a face on America ` America sees Blacks dominating the Olympics and football and basketball and baseball and track and tennis and golf. That's a veneer. I hear what you're saying ` when you look at America, what you see is not what you get. Unless you have fair rules, you don't have fair outcomes. How many more George Floyds do we have to see killed before we see real change in your country? Difficult to say, you know. America is a strange mix of hope and hopelessness. And the killing of innocent Blacks is another dimension of justice. Barack Obama is urging people to educate themselves on how to vote, and get out there and vote come November. He says that will solve this problem to a certain extent. Do you agree with that? It would solve many problems. We're the most jailed nation on Earth. We're the most violent nation on Earth. Blacks being in jail has been a part of America's story. My concern now is that we have a moment in time to discuss a new agenda, and because coming to election time, it's a good time to solidify these positions and conventions. So, in some sense, I accept the challenges before us. I'm optimistic about the future, frankly. MARCHERS SING: # We shall overcome. # We shall overcome. # Thanks very much, Reverend. Really appreciate it. God bless you. # Because deep in my heart # I do believe # that we shall overcome some day. # And the Black Lives Matter protests have continued here in Aotearoa as well ` the latest march held today, of course, in our main centres. Well, that is our show for tonight. You can join us on social media, and if you have a story you think we should investigate, contact us at sunday@tvnz.co.nz. Thanks for joining us. Nga mihi nui, hei kona.