looking at more habitable dwellings being relocated to people's blocks of land that they have. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2020 - Tena tatou katoa. I'm Simon Shepherd, and welcome to NewsHub Nation's Battlegrounds special. We're in Northland for a fierce debate between Willow-Jean Prime, Matt King, and fighting for his political life, Shane Jones. But it's not the only political battleground. We'll move down the country to the crucial Auckland Central electorate for the results of our first ever NewsHub Nation Reid-Research Poll. Then to the marae in Te Tai Hauauru. Could it be The Maori Party's ticket into Parliament? Sit tight for the analysis of the most tightly-fought electorates in the country one month out from the general election. First up, it's Northland. (GENTLE MUSIC) - It's all about lifting us up somehow. - Creating employment, creating all these other things, benefits to our community. The people that are doing the work are people from here. - You don't see much getting done around here. They need to create some more things for the young fellas. (ENGINE REVS) (GROUP PERFORMS HAKA) - Housing, jobs. Yeah, our children ` our tamariki. Ko ratou te meanui. - I think the most important issues is how we look after our moana and trying to provide some protection. - I think the roads. - Bringing our kids out of poverty. - The fishing in the bay is one of the big problems around here. - We're just looking at them for hope, looking at them for change. They have the power to do that. - And here we are for our debate on the gorgeous shores of the Bay of Islands in Kororareka. It's the first ever capital of Aotearoa ` Russell. And with me, the three leading political candidates are with us ` National's Matt King, who's currently the sitting MP. He took the seat off Winston Peters, but the seat is usually safe for National. Labour list MP Willow-Jean Prime is snapping at his heels, and she's been contesting the seat since 2014. And of course, there's New Zealand First's Shane Jones, who wants to win the seat and hopefully help his currently low-polling party back into parliament. Tena koutou. Welcome to you all. - Kia ora. - So, first question ` how do you rate your chances of winning this seat? Willow-Jean Prime. - I think I've got quite a good chance of winning the seat, as a recent poll showed Labour is ahead of National for the first time as a party, and that also, I am, like you say, snapping at the heels of Matt King. So I am confident that I can use this time to campaign and to take the seat. - Well, Matt King, Willow-Jean Prime snapping at your heels. How do you feel about that? - Absolutely. It's going to be a big challenge. I'm confident I've worked really hard. I believe that I've earned the right to be the sitting MP, so I won't take nothing for granted. - But do you rate your chances? - I absolutely do. I'm going to win this. - You're going to win this. Well, Shane Jones, currently in third, it seems. How do you rate your chances? - Oh, look, I'm not too intimidated by one rogue poll. The reality is that Northland will be looking for delivery. They'll be looking for a proven track record, and I'll put my brag sheet up against anyone in politics. - Well, let's talk about your brag sheet. You're the self-proclaimed champion of the regions, but this region ` your home region ` isn't really embracing you. Why is that? - I think that COVID has dislocated a lot of the political culture. In the next four or five weeks, Northland, along with other Kiwis, will get really focussed. Do they want the Greens? Do they want Labour to govern themselves? Do they want Labour to govern by themselves? Or do they want the wellspring of experience and pragmatism which I bring with my leader, Winston Peters? - Well, your leader actually won this seat. Why are you not seemingly going to do that? - Well, when my rangatira Winston won this seat, obviously Andrew Little, the then Labour leader, a wink and a nod and a lot of Labour people turned out, and I've got to win it on the basis of the status and the mana of our party, and on my own credentials. - Well, let's talk about a wink and a nod. Willow-Jean Prime, have you ever considered giving New Zealand First a wink and a nod ` sort of pull back on your campaigning so they can come back into power with you? - No, no. I am running a two-tick campaign, and that has been supported by our leader, Jacinda Ardern. So I'm running a two-tick campaign in Northland to earn the honour and the privilege to be the local representative for Northland in Parliament in the first instance, and also for Labour to have the opportunity to govern again. - So, I mean, you say you're running a two-ticks campaign, OK? But you've been in power for three years, and the government is all about raising people up. Have you actually raised anybody out of poverty in Northland in the last three years? - Oh, absolutely. I have people coming into my office on a regular basis, and we are helping those people with their issues, and I know when we are able to put somebody in a home who wasn't in the home before, that that is raising somebody up. - And yet, on the deprivation index, 80% of Northland children are in the bottom half, still. - We aren't going to be able to change that in three short years or so ` undoing nine years of neglect. But in three short years, we have implemented packages like the families package, which is improving the living standards of our whanau here in Northland. - Willow-Jean talks about nine years of neglect, Matt King. I mean, that was under National. I mean, admittedly, you weren't in, but you're campaigning as a safe pair of hands for National and for Northland. But does Northland need a safe pair of hands? Does it need the status quo? - Well, actually, I've just got to make a comment on that nine years of neglect. That's a Labour Party spin doctor line that is well worn out, and it's not supported by the facts. In actual fact, child poverty, which was this government's flagship` the Labour government's flagship policy, it's actually got worse under Labour. - When you're out on the campaign trail, are you talking poverty? Are you talking poverty to people? - Yeah, yeah. Everywhere I go, I talk to people, and we've got quite a big divide here. We've got the haves and have nots. Northland's got the best of the best and the worst of the worst in terms of the poverty statistics, and the median incomes are the lowest in the country. So, yeah, we've got issues that we've got to sort out, and they are ongoing through` - You say you've got issues, but what do you say to people when you're on the campaign trail ` 'This is what I'm going to do to raise Northland up'? - OK. For example, employment is a big thing ` getting people back into work, and under the previous government, we had 10,000 jobs a month every month for the last two years being created. So we were doing the business. - All right. We'll talk about jobs for Northland soon. Shane Jones, do you think that Northlanders need a boost in benefits as supported by the welfare expert advisory group? A big boost in benefits? - You know, I have a different view about these things. One thing that afflicts Northland in particular, a lot of the pockets of Maori poverty, is a poverty of spirit. The Crown will never, ever totally solve the rarurarus ` the dramas ` in Northland. Leadership within our community ` not only in the Maori community, right across ` need to stand up and be counted. We cannot tolerate a culture of excuses for excessive drug use, lifestyles that cause absolute mayhem in the community. I'm hard-line against gangs. I'm hard-line against the ideology of apologising for substandard levels of living, which is why what Northland needs is someone like me, who took a risk. The Provincial Growth Fund has had a $3200 per capita impact on the lives of people. I accept that I took a risk politically, being the steward of that fund. But unless you take risks and actually act boldly, Northland's going to get more of what's it always had. - All right. Well, let's talk about the Provincial Growth Fund that you've raised. So, Northland has got the most out of any region in New Zealand ` $500 million from the PGF ` and your critics say that is just because this is where your mates are. - Yeah, I think that's trash talk. I find very, very few people in Northland who are not grateful for the massive infrastructure investment. $70 million in water storage at a time when we've got flooding woes and shortage of water woes. The $650 million dollars that I agitated for, admittedly as a part, and I basically whipped the Greens into place ` hopefully they'll disappear ` so we can actually fund the four-lane highway south from Whangarei, going south, and in that regard, I do agree with Matt King that roads are the future, but not exclusively roads. - All right. Well, Matt King, you have been campaigning hard on the four-lane highway. So you would agree with Shane Jones that the PGF has been a good thing? - I think the PGF and some of the jobs, some of the projects have been worthwhile, but I think there's not enough scrutiny to get the cost effectiveness out of those projects. I think that having one person, Shane Jones, in charge of it is a concern for us. You know, investing in the regions is a good thing, but some of these projects that the PGF have funded just did not pass muster. - All right. So do you say it's cynical? Do you say it is a vote-buying exercise to get New Zealand First back into Parliament? - It absolutely is, and I think the voters, from the poll results, are telling us that. - Is it not a good thing to have some of this infrastructure being built in Northland, where there's a major deficit? - Absolutely. Absolutely. - So, Matt, which programme would you cancel? Which investment would you cancel? - So, what I would say is they cancelled` the four-lane project from Whangarei to North Port. That was due to start in 2019, then cancelled. That's $500 million worth of spend in Northland, and they used that money to sprinkle around in projects around the north. - So, which of those projects wouldn't you support? - Well, I would start` I think we've got to walk before we can run, and I would I would support building the four-lane highway. That's the first. That's, to me, the priority. The Northland Economic Action Plan told us that that four-lane highway is the key to the economic growth of Northland. - All right. So we understand that. But just to follow up on that question, is there a particular project that's underway or just about to get underway that you would cancel? - OK, so there are projects building museums, building sculptures, buildings some of those nice-to-haves. But in this time, especially in the time now that we've got, we need economic growth. I think that some of those projects don't pass muster. If it were National Party, we wouldn't be funding. - OK. Willow-Jean Prime, do you think that the PGF has been good for Northland and would you support the continuation of it, even if New Zealand First wasn't in power and you were re-elected? - Absolutely. Absolutely. I have seen the benefit of the Provincial Growth Fund for Northland. Before coming into Parliament, I was on the Far North District Council. Many of the projects that have received provincial growth funding are projects that we were looking at when on council, but knew that it was going to be almost impossible for our small ratepayer base with the lowest average incomes in the country to fund these types of projects. They are strategic projects that are being funded to try and stimulate local communities and local economies. So I don't hold the same view that investing in museums at our most strategic tourism asset in Northland was a bad spend of the money. So, in terms of that, in terms of the Te Hononga project in Kawakawa, which we will be opening shortly, but across the district, not only in our hard infrastructure, but also the community well-being infrastructure, like support facilities. - So, you support the community builds as well as the infrastructure builds? - Absolutely. Absolutely, because it is our communities that our people come to visit, that our own people spend money in, so these projects were absolutely` they needed central government support, or they wouldn't have got off the ground. - All right. So, you're supporting Shane Jones because he's been the driver behind this. - I'm supporting the government who made these decisions, and I actually take exception to what Matt was saying. They are not individual decisions of individual people. There were boards that had to go through, processes that people had to pitch them for. - So are you saying that there was sufficient scrutiny? - I believe there was. - So, you think Shane Jones had sufficient scrutiny over that? - No, because he wasn't the only person that had the scrutiny over it. It was an independent board that made decisions, and our people had to go through application processes for that. - Shane Jones, the Provincial Growth Fund ` you would like to keep it going if you go back into Parliament. Is that correct? - The Provincial Growth Fund only came into existence because Winston Peters negotiated a coalition agreement with Labour. I won't betray what Bill English and Steven Joyce said, but they had no interest whatsoever in a Provincial Growth Fund. Winston Peters set upon the figure of $ 1 billion a year. - OK, so therefore, is Winston Peters relying on you to win this electorate to carry on the work that you think you've done? - Despite my ego and big words, I can't match the mana of my leader. The reality is for a minority party like New Zealand First, we harvest our votes in the four winds. We don't rely on one candidate like myself. I do believe that I can be a bit of a magnet up north, but in order to achieve the perpetuation of our political movement in Parliament, we need to gather votes from everywhere. - Are you upset that Labour isn't giving you a hand this time around? - Oh, look, I thoroughly understand where the Prime Minister is coming from. They want Labour to govern by themselves ` the first time ever that a party under MMP will have exclusive power and control over the executive. I think there's a host of people in Labour who find Greens more agreeable than myself, which is why I'm going to do everything I can to ensure the Greens don't survive. - OK. Have you just admitted to me that you're not really in the race here? Because you're saying that New Zealand First has to garner its votes from all four corners of the country, in all four winds. Does that mean that this electorate is no longer crucial to New Zealand First? - No, I'm not saying that. I'm just being realistic. We've got candidates from the Deep South in the form of Mark Paterson, and every one of us is out there selling the kaupapa, selling the agenda of New Zealand First. I'm fully-blooded like my other colleagues here in Northland, and if Northland want a continuation of the political advocacy, the proven experience and the pragmatism represented by myself, they'll vote for me. - All right. So, just, can you rule out, Willow-Jean, that there is no chance of you doing a deal to get New Zealand First the vote up here? That's gone? - Yeah, that's right. The leader said that. - Let's move on to Northland's economy. So, it has unfortunately taken big hits not just with COVID, but with the droughts and then with the floods this year. I want to know how you think Northland could future-proof itself. Matt King? - Well, I think putting money into irrigation water storage ` I think that's the big thing that could benefit Northland, apart from the four-lane highway and building core infrastructure. Obviously, tourism. We've got the coastline, we've got the landscape. So, you know, we've got to work on getting those borders and how we can get people safely into the country. - All right, Shane Jones, how would you future-proof Northland? - Unless we crack the nut of water resilience, our farmers are going to suffer. Our government, I delivered $70 million ` unheard of ever ` in the area of Northland. So, look, these achievements, whilst I can't rest on my laurels, I think will be acknowledged at the ballot box by Northlanders. - Willow-Jean Prime, how would you future-proof Northland's economy? - I think what we've seen in recent times is the need for roading infrastructure not to just be focussed on a four-lane highway, but in fact dealing with route resilience. We've had the failure of the State Highway 1 network just south of Kawakawa. Months to fix there. We had the failure of State Highway 11 at Opua. Months and months to fix that slip. And right now, we have the Mangamuka Gorge State Highway 1 out of action. - You're talking about future-proofing against natural disaster, and` - Which we've experienced in Northland. We've had droughts, we've had floods. Not one in 500 years ` three in 10. - Does that future-proof the economy? That was the question. - Absolutely. Absolutely, if we future-proof our communities. Our people are our economy. - OK. - Our environment is our economy. - All right. So, if the environment is the economy, let's talk about jobs, OK? So, Northland does have the highest proportion of people on Jobseeker and on the dole. It's easy to talk about jobs, but how do you create them? Matt King. - Three years ago, we had approaching 4% growth. We had an economy that was pumping. So what I believe is that, when National get back in, we'll bring the economy back to those settings, and we won't be having this issue about employment. - Right? Is it that simple? Just, you know, get the settings right and then away you go, Willow-Jean Prime? - No, I think we have to take a more proactive approach than that, and the government is doing that. So, in the COVID recovery, we have used the government's ability to borrow to create jobs in Northland through the infrastructure programme. So, $12 billion going into infrastructure projects. I was at Taipa Area School yesterday, where they opened the refurbished school block. We are using government money on jobs, on infrastructure that needs to be done anyway, creating a programme of work to create the employment and training. - So, the problem with infrastructure jobs is that the infrastructure creates jobs when it's being built. But does it create jobs that are long-term? Shane Jones, I mean, Willow-Jean Prime's sitting there, saying the government's responsible for the infrastructure up here, taking away a bit of your blag sheet there, isn't she? - Red tape and compliance in a time prior to COVID is no longer sustainable in post-COVID. In order for us to generate the revenue necessary in the post-COVID environment, we've got to strip away the things that previously we thought were necessary, and I tell you now that we are not going to be able to afford the dead hand of red tape. - OK, let's move on to something else, which is methamphetamine use. 2019 water tests show that meth use in Northland is the highest in New Zealand. So, I guess the question is to you, Willow-Jean Prime, is that the government's approach to treating drugs as a health issue is not working up here. - But we've only just started in terms of that approach, and I go and sit in with community organisations from a grassroots level who are coming up with initiatives to try and address this issue from our communities, and it is working. They are giving their testimonies. They are showing us their results. We have been given more funding to these types of programmes. I'm talking about Whakamana Tangata who recently received over $600,000 in Dargaville, where we have people with lived experience who are now trained in the area of social work, working with people to try and turn this issue around. Methamphetamine has been around for a long time, but we haven't been seeing these sorts of changes that we're seeing on the ground, and I really want to commend those that are doing that work. - OK. Matt King, you're the local MP. You're out there on the ground. I mean, are you seeing meth use decrease? - So, the pilot scheme in Whangarei on dealing with meth, with a little bit more of a focus on dealing with the users as victims, is working. But it's also got to be coupled with some more enforcement. - More enforcement how? - As in organised crime, the police organised crime units hitting the gangs who are producing the stuff. - OK. We're going to talk about that in a moment. Meth use, Shane Jones. You've been quite hot on this. - An incredibly disappointing feature of our government's time has been the inability of the health department to use the money that David Clark got for them ` the thick end of $1 billion ` related to mental health and P addiction. - Are you saying, Shane Jones, that the $1.9 billion mental health and addiction allocation in the Well-being Budget has not been working? - Well, show me the evidence where it has worked. - I'm not asking. I'm asking the questions. - Well, there's my answer. - OK. - There's my answer, and I think that points to the difficulty, if you don't have experienced, bold politicians who know how to whip the bureaucracy into shape, it slips into a bureaucratic crevice, and Lord knows whatever happens until you shine a political light on it. - All right. We're going to have time for a break now. We'll come back to some other topics with our guests, but e whai ake nei, coming up, we're going to talk gangs with Matt King, cannabis, and some quick-fire questions on Northland after COVID. - Hoki mai ano and welcome back to Newshub Nation's battleground special here for the Northland debate. With me, again, the three leading candidates for the strategic seat of Northland this general election ` Matt King, Willow-Jean Prime, and Shane Jones. Before the break, we said we'd talk about gangs. Matt King, National wants to crack down on gangs. What approach would you apply to the North? - I think we've got to invest more in the organised crime unit in Northland, to target the gangs, because they are the ones involved heavily in the drug scene. So a real focus on the organised crime unit and into these gangs. - OK. So, real focus. I mean, you were a policeman. What does a real focus mean? Does it mean very hard tactics? - Absolutely. We've gotta target them. I mean, gangs are obviously a symptom of society and the issues that we've got, so it's a bigger picture, but targeting gangs, it does work and we should be doing it. I mean, even driving here yesterday, a gang blocked the road with 100 bikies and held up all the traffic and drove like maniacs and just intimidated everyone around them. There were three police cars there, but they were so outnumbered. And it was just a disgusting sight. - Willow-Jean Prime, you were just shaking your head then in terms of when I'm asking whether it's that simple. - Mm. - You don't think it is that simple about just targeting gangs. Are you saying that we shouldn't target gangs? - No. I don't think it's that simple, because if it was that simple, we would have addressed the issue already and solved the problem. - But are you saying that tougher, targeted enforcement is not something that you would support, like Matt King is talking about? - Well, we've had that approach, and I'm not seeing the changes on the ground in terms of that. So, what I'm saying is hand-in-hand with that, what can we do from the community, from the ground up that might also have an impact on this for us? As somebody who is proudly bicultural and Maori, it really saddens me that our whanau are choosing to become members of gangs How can we make that more attractive for our young people? - OK. - Why is it that they go to gangs to get their needs met? How else can we meet those needs that doesn't draw them into that. - So, Shane Jones, you're from the North. What's your answer? - The gang situation is worsening in North as a consequence of the villainous flotsam and jetsam that the Aussies have sent back through deporting their criminals, and they're actually teaching our gangs to be more violent and more sophisticated. So, I agree that the cops need not so much greater powers, but more resources to target the cases where we break the chain of criminality, insofar as drugs are going. Look, I'm a great believer in terms of the next generation turning their lives around, trying to influence them. But people need to know if you live a gang style and you profit at the expense of the community, you're going to jail. - We've talked about meth, but let's talk about cannabis and the referendums. So, I want to ask each of you how you are voting in the cannabis referendum. Willow-Jean Prime? - Yeah. So, cannabis is something that is an issue that is very close to me because I had it in my household, and my angst over whether we should legalise it or not. In thinking about what really was the heart of the issue, dealing with it as a crime, I have had close family members go to prison. Did prison fix them? Did they come out and stop smoking and dealing marijuana? No, they didn't. So, I know that the system and the way that we have treated it doesn't work. Cannabis in my own household, what was it? It was covering pain. It was covering trauma. Do we ever deal with the health side of it? No, we don't. - So you're saying... - And so, I am supporting it, even though it was a hard decision because I have seen that firsthand in my own household, I am supporting it because I don't believe they're treating it as a crime has solved the issues and that we need to treat it as a health issue. - Matt King, how are you voting? - I'm voting against it because I think it sends the message to young people that it's OK, and I don't I don't want that to happen cos a young brain is well affected by the cannabis. But also I don't think` - Even though it does have safeguards like age limits? - Well, yeah, but, I mean... All it does is, legalising or decriminalising it makes the young people, 'It's OK.' And I don't think I don't think it is OK. - But while it remains a crime, people aren't coming forward for the health support, and we're putting more money and resources into treating it as a crime - Well, that's a fair point. Should we be taking, you know, the resources that are going into making it a criminal offence and putting that into health, Shane Jones? Because I know that you're against cannabis, aren't you? - I think this vote will be a generational thing. I will not vote for it, for reasons, I don't want to normalise that culture, and I was born and bred in around Kaitaia, so I've seen the effect on whanau. But I suspect that people 15 years, 20 years younger than me in the north are going to vote to have a decriminalisation, legalisation. But part of the reason why I will not be supporting it is it was promoted by the Greens, and I don't agree with much of anything that the Greens are involved in. - So, this is not just a platform for you to campaign against the Greens, OK? Can I just ask you, like, Northland needs of a booming, thriving economy. Could cannabis be the economic opportunity that Northland needs? - Matt King, would you support that? - No. - Why not? - Doesn't it mean jobs? Doesn't it mean industry? - No. I think that would be the worst kind of industry that we should have in North, the worst kind. We've got so many other things that Northland has to offer. We don't need to go down that path. - Shane Jones? - No, I don't mind them growing hemp. Obviously, medical cannabis is now a legal reality. But I've already had people approach me whether I would champion a cannabis industry. I've got to be up front. I don't overthink these things, mate. I don't find them complicated. I agree or I don't agree, and I do not agree. - OK. Willow-Jean? - I don't think I don't think we should be shutting down our options up here. You've heard earlier the issues that we're trying to address and if there is employment in that for us, if there is some growth in our economy, I think it's something that we should look at. I think people who are currently users know that Northland does have soils that benefit that. The important thing is that this legislation is about the control of it, the regulation of it. And so, with those proper controls and regulations in place, it would be safe to do that and we could see the benefits of it. Instead, what we have is a black market for it, and we're not seeing the benefits of that for all of our region. - OK. So, there's distinct differences between the three of you there. On some other quick-fire issues like housing. So, housing in Northland is a crucial issue. That's what people were telling me on the streets the other day in Moerewa. Willow-Jean, have you made any difference to that? - Yes, absolutely. So, we have supported programmes like He Korowai Trust in Kaitaia, with Ricky Houghton, who is coming up with unique community solutions of a progressive home ownership programme where I handed over the keys to whanau who are going to rent to own their homes. It was the most beautiful occasion to be part of. We need to support more programmes like that in all of our communities. Ricky can't do it for the whole of the North ` or maybe he can ` but it is about supporting those in each of the communities to come up with those sorts of solutions. - So, a local trust, perhaps doing that kind of solution shared equity. But, you know, the government promised KiwiBuild and affordable housing, and that hasn't been delivered up yet, has it? - Look, yeah, I talked about KiwiBuild in terms of Northland perspective of that, and the price range for those houses, that is a pipedream for people in Northland. - Unrealistic Labour government policy for Northland, wasn't it? - No. No. For Northland, so, what we are talking about is more state houses being built. We are talking about more social housing being provided. We're talking about supporting papakainga housing to be developed. - So that's the priority? It's not KiwiBuild. - Yeah. But it's also our rural housing repairs programmes. The houses that we already have here, looking at more habitable dwellings being relocated to people's blocks of land that they have. Northland needs a unique solution that is going to work for Northland. - Which hasn't been provided as yet. - No. It has been, and I just told you what some of those were, because those sorts of initiatives were not supported by the previous government, so we have just started that work. - The previous government didn't help out with housing in Northland. - Next to no state houses have been built in Northland in the last three years, but what I can tell you is that it's the RMA. The RMA is the cause of why we have a housing problem in New Zealand. So, we want to chuck it out and get a planning and environment` - And so, you believe that doing that would lead to more affordable housing for Northlanders? - Absolutely, it will. Absolutely, it will. And what I say to you, we approached the current government and said that we would work with them if they wanted to reform the RMA, unlike what they did when we were in government. We said we'd work with them. We said it needs to be chucked in the bin and we need to start with the Planning and Environment Act. They said we'll have a working group on it. The working group came back 2.5 years later and said exactly what we'd proposed. So, we're two years or three years behind. So we would work with them. We absolutely would work with them and vote with them like we have on some other good things. - Shane Jones, have you got any other particular, unique solution for housing? - Yeah. Northland needs a pipeline of housing, not pipedreams. And I would say that housing policies that were designed for Auckland and metropolitan areas have abysmally failed in the North. - So, you're talking KiwiBuild there again, aren't you? - Yeah. - Number one ` I'll tell you what you're going to see in Northland. You're going to see a lot of 30 square metre cabins. - That's right, because we changed the legislation. - I claim absolute credit for forcing my Labour colleagues to free 30 square metre cabins from the Building Act. Sadly, that's going to be a solution for Maori housing. Maori housing can grow in the North, and that's often where the worst cases are. They own the land and if they use relocated houses, they should be exempted from the Building Act because they relocated house already has a building permit. - All three of you, you've been in Parliament for three years. Northland's lucky it's got three MPs. What have you actually done for health care in this region? Matt King? - Well, this government got rid of the health targets that we had, and what we did was we set targets, but there was no extra money thrown in. But, for example, the expectation that if someone came into an A&E unit, that would be assessed within four hours. That actually saved hundreds of lives a year. The current government got rid of those targets. So, for no capital outlay, we actually got better results. National were getting better results. Yep. Health is one of those where it's a big, Or is it that maybe this result is indicative of Labour's approach? Because immunisation rates up here have been going down and that's not a good result, and that's in the last few years, Willow-Jean, so have you really been addressing health care up here? - So that was one initiative that was specifically given more funding to encourage more immunisation our rundown hospitals. Whangarei Hospital is receiving funding to improve its hospital, create more beds, cancer treatment that's been supported. Also the support of the Bay of Islands Hospital, and I've fought for the retention of the Bay of Islands Hospital in Kawakawa. In the Stage 2 Development, $10 million going into Kaitaia. - So, you're arguing that things are happening? - We are doing things, but not just in terms of the infrastructure to support the health of our people, but when we passed the Healthy Homes Guarantee legislation, that's having an impact on stopping people going into the doctors and into hospital So, it is a wide approach that we have to take to address the health issues for Northlanders. - All right. I want to move on to industry. Just the one industry that's really kept north on going in these COVID times, Shane Jones, is primary industry. Would you agree with that? - Absolutely. - So, should you put all the eggs in that basket? You've talked about this before. And at what cost to the environment? - Well, I think it's a legitimate debate as to where do we want, in the post-COVID environment, the balance to be struck. I'm just so over these naive, fanciful notions that are being put around by some other parliamentarians. We have a crucial and dangerous situation. We have to drive revenue. And I think the things that I've sought to champion, such as water resilience, support for the primary produce sector, support for forestry. Look, when we closed down during COVID, farming kept going. The world wants what we've got. Now, I know there's the maritime disaster and we're pausing on selling live animals overseas, but we've got to back absolutely primary produce in New Zealand and be realistic as to where we draw the balance for the environment. I'm not saying pollute every stream, but no country has a good environment by getting poorer. - So, Matt King, you were talking about avocado orchards in the recent debates up here, saying that that is an example of how you can go forward. But also, are you addressing, like, the use of water up here? Because, you know, those kinds of intensive cropping use a lot of water, and Northland does not have that water. - We do. We do, actually. We do. - Don't you have droughts? - Yeah. Yeah. - So, they are problems. - And that's why you need water storage. We have ample water. 98% of the water in this country flows out to sea unused. So, I do agree with Shane Jones on that, that the water storage is the key. And under COVID, the country is being carried on the backs of the farmers. At the moment, I'm a farmer. I don't think this current government have been the friend of the farmer, and at the moment they are carrying the country. - I mean, tourism... - Well, tourism's gone at the moment, right? - Yeah. Yeah. - OK, so Willow-Jean, this government's not the friend of the farmer? - Well, I am actually hearing things different out in the communities, to my surprise, because that's what they would have you believe. But I've been to places like Maungaturoto where I have met farmers who have embraced the government's plans in this space. They have converted to organic farming, and guess what? It is working for them profitably. We have got farmers who came forward with the farm management plans, want to embrace the riparian planting that we're doing, you know, where we made announcements for the catchment of the Kaipara Harbour. I am hearing different to what they would have you believe. There are farmers out there who don't like to have the label that's been put on them, that want to be responsible, and so I think it's about having, you know, a good conversation about how we can do that together and not be targeting, you know, the negative comments towards them. - OK. So, we're just about out of time, but before we go, 30 seconds each ` I want you to answer what your post-COVID vision is for Northland. And I'd like to start with you, Shane Jones. - My post-COVID vision for Northland is ongoing investment in areas related to infrastructure, to future-proof industries, to reward and incentivise people to spend their own money. We should have a handsome depreciation regime in our tax system that enables people to get a return on their own dough. We should strip red tape and have an unfettered approach to training and maintaining confidence in the next generation so they will have their kids and they will prosper and continue to maintain our great wairua here in Northland. - Matt King? - I want a prosperous growing region where people want to come, live, raise a family, have job opportunities, health opportunities, educational opportunities. A growing region ` that's my dream. - And Willow-Jean Prime? - I think in the immediate time frames, the most important thing is to continue to manage our health response to save lives and livelihoods. Northland has benefited from the way in which COVID has been managed. If it had spread across our communities, we know we would have disproportionately been affected by that. So continue to manage our health response and our economic response. Northland can come out of this better, I believe. Because of the investment the government is putting into our recovery, we are seeing jobs being created, livelihoods being improved. So, I think we're well positioned to do well as Northland. - I'm going to have to end it there. Look, thank you very much for your time to Willow-Jean, Matt King, and Shane Jones. Nga mihi nui for turning up to this debate today. - ALL: Kia ora. E whai ake nei ` coming up on this NewsHub Nation Battleground special, the results of our exclusive poll of the crucial Auckland Central Electorate. - Hoki mai ano. Well, as we've seen, there's a tug of war over Northland, but it's far from the only battleground electorate. With National's Nikki Kaye opting out of politics, Auckland Central is anyone's game. Can untested Emma Mellow continue Kaye's legacy? Or can high-profile Chloe Swarbrick secure the Green Party's future? Or will 2017 runner-up Helen White surf the Labour wave to victory? Well, we commissioned our first ever Newshub Nation Reid Research poll, and here are the exclusive results. Helen White is way out in front on 42%. National's Emma Mellow is a distant second on almost 27%, while the Greens' Chloe Swarbrick is third on 24%. So on these numbers, a safe blue seat for the last four elections has turned red. And it could spell the end of the Greens in Parliament if they don't reach the 5% threshold. A mammoth task for Chloe Swarbrick to turn this around. Well, our senior reporter Conor Whitten has spent the week in Auckland Central with the candidates and filed this report. - A seat at the table with the mayor of Auckland. - Suddenly, we'd lost $450m in income. - Labour's Helen White could get used to this. - I love that plan. It looks really, really good. - Yeah. - With just a month till October's election, she's in line to be Auckland Central's new MP. An exclusive Newshub Nation Reid Research poll has White on more than 42% of the vote, 16 points ahead of her nearest rival. Is this now your seat to lose? - (SIGHS) It's` Its a seat with very, very strong contenders, and I don't underestimate them. - National's Emma Mellow is the closest contender, just below 27%. - I've talked to thousands of voters since I've been selected. I don't think the results are as they are. Our support is much higher and it's solid and it's growing. - The Greens' Chloe Swarbrick is just behind, on 24% in third. - This is a very tight, three-way race, which is incredibly exciting. Fundamentally, this is going to come down to the people of Auckland Central. - For those playing catch up, the clock is ticking. Mellow was selected only last month. - When this poll was conducted, I'd been the candidate for less than a month. Most of the time we were in lockdown. So that really hampered my efforts to be campaigning. - She's getting to know prospective voters on the streets of Ponsonby Road. - The National Party candidate here in Auckland Central. - But it's hard to campaign at Alert Level 2. - (CHUCKLES) Hi. - It's a bit of an adjustment. - It is, isn't it? - And politically, this is a whole new era. For 12 years, this has been National territory,... - How are you? - We're great, we love National. - CHUCKLES: Oh, OK. - You have a lovely day. - ...held by retiring MP Nikki Kaye. - Oh, it's been really a love of my life to serve the people of Auckland Central. But now the tide appears to be turning. Is this a National seat? - I don't think anyone should try and own it from a political party perspective. - And the poll numbers show a significant shift. Since the 2017 election, Labour's gained 18 points in Auckland Central. Now on more than 56%. National's party vote has crashed in the electorate, down to 23%. The Green Party's down too, at just over 12. But the ACT vote is rising, up to 3.9%. - Hopefully the fact that the government's done a really good job really helps me. But it's also incredibly important for Auckland that we have representation in the next government. And I'm hoping, and I think, maybe, voters understand that. - And the poll shows other parties losses have become big Labour gains. 25% of voters who backed the Greens last election will switch to Labour this time around. Nearly 16% have gone from National to Labour, and 48% of New Zealand First voters say they'll party vote Labour next month. It's a blow for New Zealand First MP Jenny Marcroft, who was only campaigning in Auckland Central to try to boost the party vote. Not only has it fallen, but so has her status ` demoted this week to an unwinnable position at 17th on the party list. For the Greens, these numbers could be fatal if they can't lift their party vote nationwide. It's a two-tick campaign for Chloe Swarbrick, who is trying to win the seat and help the party reach 5%. But the Green Party vote has actually gone down based on last election. - Based on last election,... - Yep. - ...but it's still up based on what we're seeing across the rest of the country in polling. - So that's not disappointing to you? - Well, I think what you see is what has made sense with` aligned with all of the other trends. - It raises the question, should Labour do a deal telling White's voters to switch to Swarbrick and give the Greens a chance to survive? You wouldn't consider an electorate deal? - Never. No, I would not. And it's been made very, very clear by Jacinda Ardern that that is not on the cards. - Should the Labour Party do a deal? - We're not looking for a deal. - At her old school in Auckland, Royal Oak Intermediate,... - I can't believe you're still teaching. - ...is a new generation of Swarbrick fans. - Thank you. - This is the first time I've been asked to do autographs in a really long time. - But even here, she can't escape the green school funding fiasco, fielding a question from a student about why James Shaw signed off on funding for a Taranaki private school. - It's kind of all of these things about recognising when you've done something wrong, owning up to that and fixing it. - The Green Party wealth tax also draws questions. - A plan to lift people out of poverty funded by an annual tax on wealth. - Then we need to make sure that those who are at the top of the pecking order contribute (CHUCKLES) to the society that all of us live in. - White has labelled the policy loopy, pointing to her retired parents who bought a home in the 1970s that now has a $2m CV. - If this goes through, then they would actually have to pay tax every year on it. So it'd be like an extra rate. It seems completely insane. - Instead, Labour's promising a new top tax rate for those earning $180,000 or more. Labour has no wealth tax, but White says she'd support one, just not the version proposed by the Greens. Does Labour's tax policy go far enough? - No` I guess` I` It's absolutely beyond my pay grade. But, yes, in principle, I would support a wealth tax if we could get it right. - But National's promising big tax cuts, especially for middle- and high-income earners worth around $3000 for those who earn between 60,000 and 80,000 a year. Can tax cuts save you? - Tax cuts is something that will stimulate the economy. It will mean that more people have money in their back pocket. It's important that we're creating jobs, and taxing people more is not the answer. - National is campaigning on the economy, and Auckland Central has been doing it tough. Two lock downs and a maze of roadworks have kept workers and shoppers away from the city. But this poll shows the message is not getting through. But there is a lifeline for both Mellow and Swarbrick. More than 20% of Auckland Central voters haven't decided who they're backing, with exactly four weeks until Election Day. - This is absolutely winnable for National. - I am campaigning with everything that I've got. - I am there working my socks off to persuade them to vote for me. - It's all on the line in this crucial electorate as National seeks to retain Auckland Central while the Green Party fights to survive. Both of them chasing a Labour candidate with a comfortable lead in the only poll. Conor Whitten reporting there. E whai ake nei, coming up, far from Auckland, another battleground is up for grabs. Is Te Tai Hauauru the Maori Party's chance to come in from the political wilderness? - Hoki mai ano to NewsHub Nation's Battleground special. If The Maori Party wants to make it back to Parliament, they'll likely have to win a Maori seat. But Labour swept all seven at the last election. But Maori Party co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer reckons she can take Te Tai Hauauru. She's tremendously popular in Taranaki, which lies at the centre of the Heartland seat. But Adrian Rurawhe has the backing of Ratana. Connor Whitten went to visit them on their marae, where routes for both run deep. In the Maori Party's road to re-election, Taranaki and its maunga are looming large. This is the heart of Te Tai Hauauru. Once a stronghold for the Maori Party, it's belong to Labour since 2014. But there's new optimism at Pariroa Pa. - The marae ` and this whare is called Taiporohenui ` is 126 years old. - Home to co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. This is Tutange Waionui, who is the founder, and this is our kuia. You'll see she's got a moko kauae. - She's a well known figure in South Taranaki. - I'm one of the very first ` probably in over 100 years ` to have a moko kauae and bring our taonga and whakapapa back. - A Ngati Ruanui leader and former deputy mayor who believes she has the support to win. - The first thing that makes me think that I can win is the response. And certainly, those that are around me, everywhere we go within Te Tai Hauauru, there's just this overwhelming support and a really great groundswell of excitement. - But the Labour Party has this seat already. They have a big majority caucus, and a number of them are government ministers. They would argue they're already delivering for Maori. Are they wrong? - Well, I think they are trying their hardest to deliver for Maori, and there's some really great, you know, whanaunga ` brothers and sisters ` that we have in the Labour Maori caucus. There's still a lot further to go. There's still a lot more that needs to be done. So we are the only tangata whenua party. - Where are Labour letting Maori down? - I mean, look, we're still waiting for resolve with Ihumatao. But certainly, from the korero that we're hearing, there needs to be further systemic change. There needs to be a by Maori, for Maori approach in legislation and policy. From an environmental perspective, which is something I'm really passionate about, we've continuously seen seabed mining hasn't been stopped. We want to stop it. We want to make sure that there is a reduction in methane, that we are able to do more for our planet. - Last month, you called on the government to put the whole country into alert level 4 lockdown. Is that your policy for any new outbreak? If we see new cases, we shut the whole country down. - The message was act and think like level 4, live level 2. - But at the time, you called to put the country into lockdown, not to act like level 2. - I think from our perspective, it was definitely, and it always has been, to tona watu kinga tangata katoa ` to stand and act and think like level 4. I think it's really critical that we continue to have a very conservative and very risk averse approach for us as Maori because of the inequities that we face in the health sense and environmentally. - Let's talk about Whanau First ` one of your biggest policies. You want 25% of all government contracts to go to Maori. Is that still a bottom line? Yes. Is it is. I mean, these are, you know` The reality is we're Tiriti partners. You know, this isn't a wish list. This is actually something to say, 'We are the most affected.' We are nearly at 20% population now, and we need to be able to sit there and say we are the most affected and impacted adversely. - But the major parties are very unlikely to support that. Aren't you ruling yourself out of power by insisting on that as a bottom line? - Well, I think there's a few things as bottom line. There's Whanau Ora, which we already have, which we're asking for scale. There's Whanau First. There's also our climate policy. These all go towards one perspective, which is the continual, futuristic growth and protection of whakapapa, of our whanau, and of our whenua. So, it may rule us out, but someone has to be bold, very bold. And this is what we intend to do as the tangata party. - But an hour further south at Ratana Pa... - We've always lived on this land. - ...is the sitting MP Adrian Rurawhe. - It goes back to my great-great-great-grandparents. - It's here that his ancestor, Tahupotiki Ratana founded the influential Ratana Church. - It changed his life, changed our family's life (CHUCKLES) and the lives of thousands of people we call 'Morehu'. - There's a lot of history here. - There's a lot of history here. Yep. - The backing of Ratana has decided elections, and this year, Rurawhe isn't concerned. - No. There's a very clear majority in party vote. That party vote's for Labour. In terms of the candidate vote, Debbie Packer didn't stand the last election. Those votes actually belong to Howie Tamati. They're starting from scratch again, and I would challenge that all of Howie Tamati's voters will go to the Maori Party this time. You know, he was a formidable candidate. - You have had this seat for six years now. You've been in government for three. - What are Labour's biggest wins for Maori in that time? - Just down the road, you know, we've put a significant amount of money into a Maori kura over and Palmerston North. We've also through the Provincial Growth Fund, funded a number of Maori initiatives. And across the board of the whole country, I think all of the voters out there know that this Labour-led government has done a lot in terms of lifting wages. - But if you look at the big picture, the Maori Party wants more radical change. There is still no deal on Ihumatao, Maori are still behind on measures like housing, income and health. This is Labour's biggest Maori Caucus, so shouldn't you have more to show for it than that? - After three years. You got to remember that the Maori Party was in government with the National Party for nine years, and these` a lot of these issues were not resolved during their time. It's a point that I would make. In terms of Ihumatao, we wouldn't have an Ihumatao if the Maori Party had not voted for the special housing area legislation. That just would not have happened. I think that it's a bit rich of them to now be saying, 'Oh, we're changed party'. And yet only three years ago, they were sitting right next to National, having voted for nine national budgets. - I want to ask you about the Maori Party's Whanau-first policy. It would say 25% of all government contracts go to Maori. They say that's a bottom line. Can you see Labour agreeing to that? - Well, the Maori Party had the opportunity to actually, you know, get that sort of policy across the line, and they can promise anything they like without the responsibility of ever having to deliver on it. Because what they need and what they fail to see is that you need to have 61 votes to get things through parliament or to get a budget through. And so, yeah, you know,... - Are you saying Labour wouldn't support that? - Well, I think, you know, some of their policies would actually bankrupt the country. That's not a pathway that is good for Maori. It will end up hurting Maori, that sort of policy, because our country can't afford it. Conor Whitten reporting there. E whai ake nei, from new faces to new electorates, and the tightest of races, more battleground seats after the break. Hoki mai ano. Well, we've brought you to Northland and taken you to the hotly contested seats of Auckland Central and to Te Tai Hauauru. But they're not the only battlegrounds. Other seats could determine the outcome of this election, including the brand new electorate of Banks Peninsula in Canterbury, where the locals have new faces to choose from. - It's hard, because we've got all new candidates this year, because of the different boundary changes. - Catherine Chu, and then, um... Oh, God, I'm actually having A little bit of panic moment in my head, and I can't remember. - I have know idea who Tracey McLellan is standing for. Catherine Chu, I think I saw a billboard. I think she's National. - Tracey McLellan. I'm unaware of Tracey McLellan. - When the information comes through, I'll examine it, and see what I think. - So Banks Peninsula replaces the old Port Hills seat, and Nurses Union Organizer Tracey McLellan is hoping to take over from long-serving Labour MP Ruth Dyson. Her challenger from National is banker and Christchurch City Councillor Catherine Chu. Moving to the capital and one of the tightest seats, National's Chris Bishop is the sitting MP, but once again, he's up against Labour's Ginny Andersen, who pushed him hard in 2017, only losing by 1500 votes. And another expected tight race where New Zealand First is maybe pinning its hopes is Ohariu. Currently held by Labour's Greg O'Connor, he faces off again with National's Brett Hudson, but high-profile Children's Minister Tracey Martin is hoping to topple them both, and ensure New Zealand First a way back to Parliament. The winning margin last election just 1051 votes. So lots to look forward to on election night, but wraps up our battleground special. Nga mihi nui, thank you so much for watching, we will see you again next weekend, but for the moment, from Northland, hei kona mai. Captions by Kristin Williams, Joshua Tait and John Gibbs. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2020