E haere ake nei, today on Newshub Nation ` New Zealand's first female Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta. Newshub National Correspondent Patrick Gower reports live from Washington on an ongoing battle for the presidency. And the Maori Party came up trumps in the specials with a new MP, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. She joins us live. Tena tatou katoa. Good morning, I'm Simon Sheppard and welcome to Newshub Nation in another huge political week. The National Party's dire election result dropped even further after the special vote count. Three MPs lost their electorates ` Denise Lee, Matt King and Shane Reti. Gerry Brownlee also stepped down as Deputy Leader. It was close, but not close enough in the fight to legalise cannabis. The final results showed 50.7% against, 48.4% in favour, a narrow 2% margin. And the end of life choice officially passed with a 65% majority. Political chaos in the United States as an anxious nation awaits the official results. Joe Biden urged patience as he gained ground in both Georgia and Pennsylvania Meanwhile, Donald Trump cried fraud, despite providing no evidence in support of his claims. Well, there's been a local election of firsts and this week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern continue to make history appointing New Zealand's most diverse cabinet, 40% women, 25% are Maori, 15% Pasifika and 15% LGBTQI, including the Deputy Prime Minister. The deal was signed this morning after a majority of Green Members voted in favour. - All right, we'll start a co-ordinated handshake. - Four handshakes on the ninth floor, binding two parties for the next three years. - It also, importantly for the government, brings stability. - This was a supermajority. This is a supermajority. A supermajority decision to support this agreement, and we're really proud of it. - The Prime Minister flipping her cabinet table upside down. How would you categorise this reshuffle? - Exciting. - Taking on the Deputy Prime Minister role in addition to that, just provides another way in which I can provide support to Jacinda. - New Zealand gets its first ever woman Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta. - And I hope that many other woman of Maori descent, mixed descent, across New Zealand will see this is as lifting the ceiling once again. - Obviously, Maoridom has been wanting representation for 160 odd years, so we're very pleased. - Five Maori ministers in Cabinet, one minister outside, plus an undersecretary ` Maori now making up a quarter of the cabinet. - This is a cabinet and an executive that is based on merit, who also happen to be incredibly diverse. And I'm proud of that. - Including a very excited new Minister for Women... That is a big grin on your face. - I think for the first time in my life, I was actually speechless. - Dr Ayesha Verrall has not even been sworn in as an MP and already rocketed straight into cabinet. - I tried to expect nothing, but be prepared for anything. - Now it's time to crack on with it. - All right, well, joining me now are two of the key members Jacinda Ardern's new cabinet. Minister for Corrections, Children and Maori-Crown relations, Kelvin Davis, and the first woman to hold the position of Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta. Welcome to you both. Tena korua. - Kia ora. - Kia ora. - Kia ora. Nanaia, so I would say to people who don't know, you were the surprise pick in cabinet. So did you put yourself forward Foreign Affairs, or did Jacinda Ardern shoulder-tap you? - Look, the Prime Minister identified that we've got a deep pool of talent after the election. So she canvassed us all about where our passions and interests were, how we could contribute to the government's agenda and loop back around, and offered us some portfolios. So I'm delighted and privileged to be able to lead Foreign Affairs. - So does that mean you put your hand up? - I indicated an interest in Foreign Affairs. - You said you wanted the job. You know, alongside a number of other things. And I'm absolutely privileged to be able to steward through that portfolio. - All right. Kevin Davis, you had the chance to be the Deputy Prime Minister. Did you get into a horse trading position with the Prime Minister about more Maori members in cabinet if you didn't have that role? - No, not at all. As Nanaia said, the Prime Minister canvassed us all on what we wanted. She made it clear that the decision to be Deputy Prime Minister was a decision for me to make. But look, in Jacinda and Grant, we've got the two best political communicators of a generation. And I think it's right. They've totally got my backing. I just want to say how proud I am of of Nanaia for being our first female Foreign Minister. It's just absolutely wonderful. We're all so proud of her. - Oh, let's talk portfolios Nanaia. It looks like Joe Biden is going to become president. How's that going to change our relationship with America? - Oh, look, the final count has yet to be completed. And I know that based on the outcome, New Zealand values the relationship with the United States. But let's wait till the final count to make sure that everything will be as it needs to be in terms of how the American voters have decided the outcome of their election. - And I understand that position. But there is an opportunity here, isn't there? I mean, Donald Trump, you know, got the US out of the Paris accord, the trade talks, all those kinds of things that we are involved in. So is there an opportunity for New Zealand? - I'm not going to speculate on who we will be talking with, but I do know that it's important to ensure that the relationship with the US is strengthened and that there is advantage for New Zealand, let's wait for the final count to see who we'll be talking to. - All right. OK. If you're still talking to President Trump's administration, can you see a healthy relationship there? - Look, I know that once the American voters and their decision at this election have been assessed counted fully and we know who we're talking to, I know from a country to country level, we value the relationship with the United States. And it's important that we continue to secure advantage on the issues that matter to New Zealand. And that's the perspective I'll be taking out, because we are putting in the international fora, some really strong ambitions around things like climate change, how we get through this global pandemic and forge a new way forward. - OK, a couple of more things before we get to you, Kelvin. Just within Nanaia, we're getting to know you, so let's put in a quick scenario. You're in China, you're talking to the Foreign Minister there. More evidence comes out of, say, China's maltreating of Uyghurs. How do you balance that while you're trying to preserve the relationship and yet make strong representations` Look, we're in a very complex environment in terms of international relations, and I'm not going to forecast the type of conversation we'll have with China, except that I do know and understand the importance that they place on diversity and also genuine relationships. So that's going to be, again, something that I can add to, deepening the way in which we engage with all countries, big ones and small ones. - So you're talking about diversity. There has been strong international media interest in you being wahine Maori with a moko. How have you responded to that, and what is your message to people when they just ask you about that? Yeah, look, that New Zealand has come of age in terms of how we see our place in the world and what is unique about our identity and our culture and the base from which we want to project out the things that are important, like looking after our environment, addressing the issues of climate change and inequality, but also ensuring that an economy that works for everyone, indigenous people included, can be one that deepens our opportunity in our democratic process. because we know when everyone does well, then our democracy thrives. - OK. Well, let's talk to you, Kelvin. You are now in charge of Oranga Tamariki. It's an organisation that people have saying it's been failing Maori children. Do you feel an enormous expectation on you as a Maori Minister to make changes to that organisation? - Without a doubt. There are issues with the way New Zealand treats its children. But I asked for this portfolio. People are quite surprised by that. - And why did you? - Well, for me, it's about being able to focus on an issue that it really affects Maoridom. And, you know, there was some 81,000 calls of concern around children last year, 58,000 individual children. That's over 1000 children a week on average who people are calling in concerned about. Something needs to be done about it, and` - So that means you're going to make changes. If something needs to be done, you're going to make changes. Can you tell us what? - So nothing's off the table. And over the next two weeks before parliament starts again, I'll be meeting with stakeholders, from the people who are who are Oranga Tamariki harshest critics right through to the officials and looking at what the options are. One thing that has happened, there's been a number of reviews over the last few years. - That's right. - I think we've had enough reviews. We now need to start putting in place the solutions that people have come up with. - So some of the solutions that people have come up with, I mean, OT says that it is making progress and devolving decision-making and care to iwi and other Maori groups like the Maori Women's Welfare League. Is that` are you going to change that? I mean, would you prefer a separate agency under Oranga Tamariki for Maori? - I'm not` I don't want a separate agency, but I do think that we need to go further. Maori have a number of the solutions, but we've got to` If we're going to move further in the that direction, we have to do it properly. We have to do it right. You know, there's some 6000 children in state care at the moment. If I was to put them on a on a fleet of buses now and deliver them off to their various hapu and iwi tomorrow, would those iwi and hapu at this stage be able to to cater for their needs? I doubt it very much that many of them would will be able to. So we have to do things right. We have to take our time to make sure that we get it right. But we there will be changes. - There will be changes. OK, what about the chief executive, Grainne Moss? There have been many calls for her to resign by some Maori groups. Do you have confidence in Grainne Moss? - So I'll be having a conversation with the State Services Commissioner over the next week or so in regards to the leadership of Oranga Tamariki. But, you know, those conversations are yet to be had. And I will be meeting with the leadership of Oranga Tamariki over the course of the next two weeks. - OK. Do you have confidence in the CEO? Well, like I said, I'll be meeting with the State Services Commissioner over there. - So what` Are you saying there, is the subtext there that you don't have confidence and you'll be asking for the State Services Commission to find a new CEO? - What I'm saying is I'll be talking to the State Services Commissioner about the leadership of Oranga Tamariki, as well as talking to my officials over the coming two weeks. OK. 68% of children in state care are Maori. What is your target` At the end of this term, what is a measurable target for you in terms of this portfolio? - Well, I mean, obviously, the target that we all want is for zero children to be in state care. - Is that realistic? - Well, you know, probably not realistic. But, you know, idealistically, that's what we would love to see, is that all children and New Zealanders are looked after in safe and loving families. But we certainly want to reduce those numbers. - Do you have an idea in mind? Like you do prison population targets. Do you have an idea in mind? At this stage, you know, we'll be looking at what is realistic. Like I say, I've still got to have those conversations with all the stakeholders from the most vehement critics of Oranga Tamariki through to the officials, and we'll be making decisions over the coming weeks. - OK. Nanaia, I just want to come back to you. Now, you probably have received and read your ministerial briefing for Foreign Affairs. Which country will you engage with first? What is the priority? - I think let's talk about which regions are really important to us, because when we think about where we are located as a small country in the Pacific, obviously the focus on our Pacific neighbours is a very important set of relationships that we need to continue to strengthen and foster, and especially during this time of a COVID response, as well as Australia. So our two closest neighbours, many New Zealanders, would expect that we have got them really locked down in this next period. - Well, that's interesting because Melbourne this week said, 'Hey, New Zealanders, you can come and fly in and not quarantine.' You can do that in New South Wales and the Northern Territory. When are we going to get that bubble with Australia? - Yeah, well, that's in front of our cabinet and the Prime Minister will be responsible. As we consider situations, the situation when that announcement will be made. But let's come back to the question, the regions that we would absolutely want to make sure that we are identifying as priorities for us is the Pacific. And I want to acknowledge my Associate Minister for Foreign Affairs, Aupito William Sio, and the relationships that he already has across the Pacific. We'll be working closely together with the Prime Minister on those sets of relationships, as well as Australia. - As well as Australia. - And then venturing out, obviously` - Cook islands? What about Cook Islands? - Look, they're a part of the Pacific. they are a part of the Pacific. They are an important relationships to us, the Cook Islands in particular as a realm country. So absolutely important. - All right. So, this week, you said the Prime Minister wants you to carve out new trade areas and market share in those. Where? - Oh look, relationships. I'm not the Minister for Trade, although previously` - You did say trade in your comment. - ... previously I have had responsibility in the trade area and fostering the opportunity around indigenous collaboration agreements. We've signed our first collaboration agreement with Australia. We are working with Canada. But trade specifically will be an area that will be stewarded through by Damien O'Connor and also Rino Tirikatene and Phil Twyford. So look, that aside, what we do need is really good relationships to to deepen the opportunity that will emerge from trade agreements. And I intend to do my part. - OK. Kevin Davis, the prison population is dropping, and just recently, dramatically in the last few months. Is that because of COVID? Are we not arresting the same number of people? - I think it's been because of the great work that the previous government did. I mean, Andrew Little did some amazing work in Justice, Stuart Nash in police, also the work that we've been doing and corrections around the implementation of hokai rangi, our strategy and the Maori pathways. - But just on the Mardie Pathways, the percentage of Maori in prison is still 52.3%. That proportion ` population might be coming down the numbers ` but the proportion of Maori is staying the same. - Yeah, and I'm aware of that. But the big thing is, is that the numbers, actual numbers of Maori in prison, are fewer. But we've got a lot of work to do. You know, it's been three years on a 15 year programme, and Hokai Rangi is a 5 year strategy. So we've got` Corrections has got more work to do, no doubt. - Are you going to expand the Maori pathways to other prisons? I mean, it's in two at the moment. Is that the plan? Our goal is to introduce it into one of the woman's prisons in the next year or so. And I'd love to see it expanded out. I mean, we talk about having access to your culture being a right, not a privilege. And so, you know, we'd love to see more Maori in prison having access to their culture but also the rehabilitation we want. People's mental health needs to be met. So there's been a big emphasis on making sure people come out of the system in better shape than when they went in and not returning to prison. - OK, just a couple of quick questions to finish up. The cannabis referendum didn't pass. Does that mean we are going to see Maori still overrepresented in drug use statistics in terms of arrests? - Look, I'm not sure. I've always said that I'd like to see our drug issues treated as health issues, not criminal issues. So there is work to do. And we know that 90% of people in prison have a mental health or a drug and alcohol problem. And so in prisons, we need to do more to help to people with those issues. - OK. And Nanaia Mahuta, Rawiri Waititi took Waiariki from Tamati Coffey. Now, speaking to you both in terms of your sense of the Maori caucus And so Debbie Ngarewa-Packer is in. Is that a message to both of you and to your Maori colleagues that you didn't deliver for Maori last term, Nanaia? - Not at all. In fact, if you look at the Maori party's message during the election, they were promoting two-for-one on the premise that maybe by voting for a Maori party electorate candidate, that a Labour candid.ate would get through Actually, their two-for-one message was all about them. But I do want to acknowledge Rawiri and the campaign that he ran in Waiariki. He will have an opportunity now to put his feet under the table and get to understand the parliamentary process, and it's not easy. - (LAUGHS) All right. He said they've scraped their way, or scrapped their way back in, both of those. Do you both, just finally, you both have a record number of Maori ministers. So obviously there's going to be pressure and expectation to deliver on behalf of Maori. Kelvin Davis, what would be your key measure of success by having such a representation? - Well, I think there are a number of measures of success across all our portfolios. But one thing I'd like to say is that, yes, it's a record number of Maori in cabinet and outside of cabinet. But I'd like to think that it just becomes normal, that people aren't surprised or amazed that we've got seven Mapro in ministerial positions, and that in future governments it would be just seen to be the norm. - So would that be would that be like a key measure of success, that it becomes normal, is normalised? - Oh, I'd love to see it. I mean, those of us who grow up in Maori communities and see Maori leadership everywhere, it's it's actually nothing new. But for` You know, I was quite surprised in politics, the rest of the country see it as something really special. I mean, we're very, you know, we think it is wonderful, but I'd just like it to be normalised. - We've got an overwhelming mandate across the six of the seven Maori electorates space, and a huge mandate in terms of party vote on the agenda that we took to the electorate. And that is the basis upon which will deliver. So any expectation that is beyond what we've said we will deliver to the electorate, then other parties might have to be responsible for those expectations. But we can be responsible now that we have an overwhelming majority to deliver on Labour's plan of action and with the support of the Greens. So I think people can be confident about that. - All right, we'll leave it there. Nananai Mahuta, thank you very much for your time. Kevin Davis, thank you for your time. Tena korua. - Kia ora. - If you've got something to say about what you see on the show, please let us know. We're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram ` NewshubNationNZ or you can email us at nation@mediaworks.co.nz/ OK, She's been delivered to Parliament by the specials. We speak to the Maori Party's Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. But first we cross live to Patrick Gower in Washington, the political capital of a nation anxiously awaiting results. Welcome back. A bitterly-fought US election continues, but Joe Biden stands poised to become president-elect. President Trump, however, is contesting the election with legal challenges across multiple battleground states. Here are some highlights from a gripping, sometimes chaotic week in the US. The President and the man who wants to dethrone him ` both sure they're going to win. - We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election. - I'm here to tell you tonight we believe we're on track to win this election. - We were winning everything and all of a sudden it was just all gone. - Keep the faith, guys. We're going to win this. It's not my place or Donald Trump's place to declare who's won this election. That's the decision of the American people. - # This is America. # Don't catch you slippin' now. # Don't catch you slippin' now. # Look what I'm whippin' now. # This is America. # Guns in my area (my area) # I got the strap. - And this is a case where they're trying to steal an election. They're trying to rig an election. - Democracy is sometimes messy. It sometimes requires a little patience as well. We have no doubt that when the count is finished, Senator Harris and I will be declared the winner. - # Get your money, black man. - Well, our Newshub National correspondent, Patrick Gower, is on the ground in Washington, D.C., at the political heart of a divided nation. Paddy, thanks for coming on the show. Like the rest of the country, have you had any sleep? - (LAUGHS) Not a lot, and unlike the rest of the country, of course, I've been working to different time zones as well, Simon, but watching through the night, obviously an incredibly exciting, exhilarating election here and just extraordinary to stay up and watch it, sort of, tick over through the night, counting, counting, counting those votes. But plenty of time for me to sleep when I get back home to managed isolation, so, no worries. - At least you've got a spot, hey, Patty? So we're going to be waking up now, we are waking up now to Joe Biden taking the lead in Georgia and Pennsylvania. He almost has his hands on that house right behind you. What's the feeling on the ground where you are? - Look, Joe Biden does have the keys to the White House now, no official calls by the network, but, like you say there, he's got ahead in Pennsylvania and taking that will pretty much push him over the top. Georgia gives an even more luxury. And then, of course, he's hanging on out in Nevada and is going to flip Arizona by the looks of things. Georgia will have a recount and it is, of course, complicated and close. But, Simon, that bevy of states that he's taken pretty much overnight leaves a combination that, even if one or two of them got in legal troubles or got turned back to Donald Trump, Joe Biden would still be president of the United States of America. In fact, it's fair to say right now it's only a matter of time before Joe Biden is announced as the president-elect of the United States of America. He will address the nation later tonight. It will probably happen then, if not sooner. - All right. Well, I'm glad that you're the first to call it, Patty. That's great. You've seen him up close. What do you make of his campaign and of him? What's` What did he do right and what did he do wrong in this campaign? - Yeah, an extraordinary campaign for an extraordinary election. You know, if we start by what he did wrong, you know, obviously Joe Biden, you know, it's quite fascinating watching him. He is a lot older when you see him up close. You know, I saw him vote and he is a lot older. I saw his wife, Jill Biden, sort of help him scoot down some stairs, just take his hand, you know, as if, you know, he may take a sort of stumble, and that showed me, when we saw him, that he does look quite old. You know, 77 years old, he'll 78 years old by the time he gets into the White House in January next year. And they really did keep him off the campaign trail, so to speak. Very, very minimal events coming out, reading an autocue. Rarely, if ever` in fact, I haven't seen him since I've been here ` actually take any questions, other than from embedded pool reporters, you know, very much like statements. And that seems to have worked. You know, the Biden campaign has kept him from making a mistake, essentially, a mistake that showed his mental acuity or lack thereof. And I think Donald Trump really needed that in the last two weeks, in one of those debates, perhaps something that showed Joe Biden to be lacking a step or two, mentally. That didn't happen. They kept him away from that. So in some ways, this kind of line that Joe Biden is Sleepy Joe, has been locked in the basement, by Donald Trump is kind of right. They have kind of kept him locked away. That has, in the end, worked. It has been a precision campaign focussing very much on the coronavirus response and it has just gotten there. But ultimately, my belief is it has been a disappointing campaign by Joe Biden. You know, he nearly lost this thing. A few different things going a few different ways. It's very, very close out there. And Donald Trump could have taken this thing. Ultimately, a disappointing campaign. But Joe Biden has done the job and got there and got Donald Trump out of the White House. - Yeah, but not according` - Or, nearly out of the White House. - Nearly, but not according to Donald Trump, of course, who came out yesterday accusing everybody of cheating, from Democrats, pollsters, mainstream media... What kind of message is that sending to his supporters? - Yeah, again, I hate to use the word extraordinary, I think it's the third time I've done it, but that was extraordinary as well. What you saw there was political death throes, someone sort of flailing around. The downfall moment, effectively, in the White House here. Donald Trump just sort of chucking stuff everywhere as he made, effectively, a whole lot of falsehoods, and not a lot of that was true, of course. And that was Donald Trump really just chucking it all out there at the end. And the concern about that is what we've already seen ` uprisings amongst his supporters. Remember, Simon, there's 69 million people that have voted for Donald Trump, and effectively endorsed Trumpism out there. He has extraordinary support in this country. Five, six, seven million more votes than he got last time around. So the message to his supporters is that what he's been pushing all along, actually, that the election was going to be rigged, that he was going to be cheated from it, that they were going to be cheated from it. He has been pushing that line all along, almost as if he knew it was going to come to this. And that leaves America in a very divided position. You know, all those voters for him thinking that, yep, it all came true, it was rigged, it was cheated. - Yeah, sure. - 'It was stolen from us.' - So, you're on the ground there, Patty` - So it's very difficult time ahead. - Yeah. So, I mean, do you feel safe, from what you see there? I mean, we've had reports of, you know, Hummers going to Philadelphia, maybe with guns and things like that this morning. Not proven, but, you know, there's that sense of being very heightened there. - Yeah, and it's funny, there was... I wouldn't use the term calm, but of course, with this long process, everything sort of built up and then hit a bit of a plateau as everyone's been waiting for the results. Of course, later today, we will kind of get some sort of declaration and then it'll be all on again. We've got to wait to hear from Donald Trump again. You would have seen his son, Donny Junior, sort of sending tweets, talking about all out war and that kind of thing. So obviously here in Washington, D.C., very safe. You know, it's a bubble. There's lots of people around and the place is boarded up and it's all good. It's out there, as you mentioned, Philadelphia, these kind of places, where you may well see some tension. And of course, with that division that everyone can see, you know, country pretty much down the middle, even though Joe Biden's winning and Donald Trump's so unpredictable... I mean, Simon, it's anybody's guess what's going to happen in the coming days. - What have we missed as New Zealanders watching, you know, in our, sort of, relatively boring election? And you're there ` you spent a bit of time in America ` so what are we missing here in New Zealand, when we look at America? What don't we understand? - Yeah, that's a really good question, you know, and I've been lucky enough to spend a lot of time here, you know, I've been to, I don't know, over 20 states in the last sort of eight years and this is my third election here. And spent been a lot of time here with the documentary as well. And I actually love America and it's a great privilege to come here, and I actually do believe it's a great country. And, you know, when we do watch at home and you see so much of Donald Trump on the news every night and look, you know, anybody would say, you know, it's frustrating and he looks like an idiot a lot of the time, and you do wonder what's happening here. But then when you get here, the people are great. You know, so many of them are great. They're intelligent, they're driven. The American dream is still real and achievable. What we miss and what we can't understand and what I struggle to understand ` you know, I've talked to a lot of Donald Trump supporters, I've been to rallies this time, last time, I've seen people I saw last time this time around who are still supporting him, and you find it kind of unbelievable. What we miss, Simon, by sort of judging things through our TV screens and our internet and that kind of thing is this dislocation that they've found from the system, you know, this economic dislocation, this political dislocation, there's sort of this feeling of nothing is kind of going for them. And that's what Donald Trump has picked up on. And he's held onto it despite everything that we've seen. And it's actually, you know, it's a phenomenon. It's a social phenomenon. And that's why I like coming here and reporting, you know, it's not the politics ` that's exciting, the numbers are great, that's awesome ` you know, I like coming here and seeing the society and trying to understand the society, and it's incredibly complex. And it's out of that, it's out of that, this Trumpism and the support for it, this religious fervour almost, for what he stands for has been there and the fact that it has lasted four years... It's just extraordinary to me. - I mean, you've called the election and you expect it to be official later, soon` later, should I say ` what's next for the President, though? I mean, multiple lawsuits, investigations. What's next? - Yeah, I mean, you know, the inauguration isn't until January the 20th. So we've got that time period that everybody knows about, you know, called a lame duck presidency. You know, where Donald Trump is not going to be able to do much. That, as everybody knows, is not how he rolls, and America has a democratic machine and a system. And they` and they love it, as everybody knows as well. What we've got to see now is how he reacts. You know, does he concede? Does he refuse to concede? You'd have to be erring on the side, that he will refuse to concede, that he will contest all of those states legally, that he will continue to push this line to his supporters that he's been cheated, that he'll do that from the White House and all of the power and the prestige that it has, like what we saw yesterday, and that has to be a concern in the immediate future. I'm talking about, until Joe Biden can get into this place, you know, transition into this place on January the 20th, next year. I mean, you know, the fear of this country going out of control is very real. - All right, Patrick. Lots more to come. And thank you so much for your time. - Yes. - E whai ake nei, coming up ` we dissect a bumper week in politics with our panel. Plus, the specials have delivered another MP for the Maori Party. We speak to Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. Hoki mai ano, welcome back. One of the biggest winners from yesterday's special votes was the Maori Party after earning a .2 percentage point gain on their election night score, taking them to 1.2%. That means co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer joins Rawiri Waititi in Parliament and she joins me now. Congratulations, Debbie. How did you celebrate last night? - Kia ora, thanks Simon. Probably... was overwhelmed with` not probably, I was overwhelmed, with a lot of our community, a lot of whanau phone calls, social media, so... and still feeling very overwhelmed, humbled and extremely excited by the privilege that our people have bestowed. - OK, so you have come in on the coattails of Rawiri's success in Waiariki. How can you assure people that you have earned your spot in Parliament? - I think ` The reality is, is that the party got in behind our people, got in behind and were able to give us the confidence with the party vote. You know, from the beginning, we've always said that there needs to be the party Maori in Parliament and we are unapologetic about our Maori view, our Maori world view, and you know what we intend to do. So it will be contingent on the way that we brought back a party, pretty much from 2017 ` I've said this a couple of times ` the brink of oblivion. So we will continue to build off what got us here in 2020. And we're already looking ahead to 2023, 26, and 29. - Sure. So, you say you've brought the Maori Party back from the brink of oblivion, but what are you going to do differently to make sure it doesn't go back there? - I think` Well, what we have done differently is how we've started the campaign. So we've completely had three years away and we've developed a policy platform that are really about addressing and providing solutions for our whanau. We've been able to reconnect with our rangatahi, so much of our comms, our marketing, the way that we've been thinking has been developed in, you know, collaboration with our rangatahi. We've been able to spend time also on the ground, you know, again, more time focussed on us rebuilding our branches. So that's the momentum that certainly my leadership in my area will be about. And that's the starting point, and we just intend to continue to grow that. - So you're there now, but, you know, Labour doesn't need you. So what are you going to do? - What can you actually focus on, to make any progress in terms of Maoridom? - Yeah, I think the question is Labour doesn't need us. Well, I think they say that they don't need us, but actually, our people are saying that they do. And we need to be taking some cross-party approaches on multiple things ` poverty, housing, being able to address the concerns that are going to continue to grow post-COVID, require a cross-party approach, particularly from us as Maori. We've always said that we're happy to work with Labour. There's always been our whakaaro, and that will continue to be. Now, whether they take that offer or not, is up to them. But, you know, we saw it during the COVID response. We had those of our ministers that were in government doing the government thing. There were a lot of ourselves who are part of the party Maori who are on the front line. Now, those end-end approaches have to be considered as we move forward in unprecedented times. So we've got to take unprecedented approaches to doing it. That's exactly what Te Pati Maori will be doing. - OK, but the policies that you've been elected on were a lot more progressive or radical than the government's, like doubling benefits, minimum wage of $25, and in fact, Labour said at the time, you know, those policies would bankrupt the country. So how are you going to get some cut through for those policies? - I think we'll use the same tenacity that we have got to get cut through when everyone else has had an overwhelming growth in their electorates with Labour, the Maori candidates and certainly the Maori seats didn't. A lot of our Maori seats have held their own. And in fact, you'll see that even with Te Tai Hauauru, we have the same margin that we had in 2017 to now. So we will use that tenacity and we will certainly grow that capacity in that connection with our people on the ground. You know, this is about being secure and not insecure about having other Maori voices. You go on the marae, you'll sit there and you will hear multiple voices on the paepae. They don't all come from one camp. And that's the approach that we're promoting, and going forward, it has to be. And again, our policies were certainly transformational because we are in absolute unprecedented times. It's not just a pandemic crisis, we also have climate change. So, our whanau want to be able to live their best lives and we intend to use whatever access, whether it be advocacy, whether it be in debating, whether it be in continuing to lobby with other relationships in Parliament. - What is` what is going to be the first, kind of, issue that you're going to try and bring to the forefront? I mean, you talk about the pandemic and unprecedented times, let's narrow into something specific. - Well, I think some of the things is that, we know that there are` unemployment, we have underutilised, underemployed, whanau. We need to be able to have influence and address that. We know we have friends, even within the Greens, we have similar whakaaro about that. We also know that there is a pressing imperative to make sure that we address the housing initiatives, address` you know, if we can get our whanau into homes and we can get food on the table, then we can actually make sure that they're well enough to learn and earn. Those are really simple steps, bread and butter things that we really want to focus on. There's also some massive disparities that we have that we want to be able to address. And we look at health, for example. So we know that there are other allies that have similar whakaaro, and we intend to be able to discuss and certainly ask to meet with them this week. - Sure. We've just had Kelvin Davis, the new Minister for Children on the programme, and he said that he does not want a separate agency for tamariki Maori. So are you disappointed in that? - Yeah, of course we're disappointed. And that's actually not what the multiple reviews and audits are saying. But we've heard ministers at the beginning of their tenure say they do not want this. But we've also seen the call of the community, the call of those on the ground that are having to live with the consequences of racist organisations like Oranga Tamariki. - So, you're hoping to change their mind? - So we just have to keep pushing and lobbying` - Right. - ...to have those changes, now those changes are not just what Te Pati Maori wants, they are actually what experts, multiple audits and reviews have said need to happen. And we need to do what's right by our whanau and by our tamariki. - One of the other issues that's still outstanding and hasn't been resolved, Is Ihumatao. What pressure can you bring to bear on the government to make a solution on that? - I think the pressure is` sure, the pressure is to continue to work alongside the mana whenua and those who have been championing change and to make sure that we all are doing, you know, what's right by those people and we know the right thing is to simply return te whenua. Now, the other right thing would to actually have the Prime Minister turn up and have those discussions with them. Now, there's no other party in the way, we no longer have Winston Peters. That was the problem in the past. So we will be imploring that they continue these discussions` - So, you're calling on` - ...and we will discuss with them, as well. - You're calling on the Prime Minister to get directly involved and get it sorted. - Absolutely. Absolutely. She stood herself at Waitangi and said to hold her to account. So that's exactly, as a party, what we will do. We will work with Labour and everyone else, but we also hold the big parties to account. That's what's expected of us. - OK. Congratulations, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, co-leader of the Maori party, new MP. - Thank you. - Thanks very much for your time. - Appreciate it. OK. Up next, our panel dissects a bumper week in politics. Plus, meet the newbies and the government's inner circle. Hoki mai ano, welcome back. I'm joined now by our panel, former Green Party MP Sue Bradford, politics lecturer Dr Lara Graves and Executive Director of the Maori Council, Matthew Tukaki. Welcome to you all this morning. So let's talk about special votes. National down two more seats out the special votes. Denise Lee, Matt King out of parliament, at least he's lost his seat. Matthew, that party is going to need to do some serious soul-searching. - Oh, they needed to do some soul searching well before the Election Day. Look, I think National are in an awkward position where not only have they lost a significant portion of the of their members, but in fact, the Maori membership has fallen dramatically. We've seen losses right across their caucus. And, of course, even though Shane survives, his loss in Whangarei. having a Maori lose an electorate seat in their party is quite significant and including, you know, the seat of Northland once again, Matt King is gone and and Labour` And so they've got soul searching to do, but they need to really sort themselves out, including a root and branch review of their structure and also the local leadership. - Lara Greaves, were you surprised that National lost so much in those specials? - No, I think we're kind of expecting them to lose the two seats. They normally` In the last two elections, they've lost two seats. I was thinking maybe they'd only lose one because they had less votes this time overall, right? So maybe it was that. But it was just really interesting to see who they lost it to, in losing it to the Maori party. because generally they've lost one seat to Labour and one to the Greens. And I think this really speaks to the fact that the Maori Party did lean quite left this time around. - OK. Sue Bradford, would you expect, I mean, the Greens normally benefit really well from specials, but not this time. - Their percentage was a little lower than ACT's, and, yeah, it was` I feel really sorry for Steve Abel, because he was nearly there. It's a horrible feeling to be on the edge. So I feel it's a pity that Steve didn't make it in. But I'm not surprised and I'm absolutely thrilled that we have the second Maori Party MP. That's really significant that their voice will be so strengthened by this outcome. - OK, let's just quickly circle back to the National Party. As you say, they've got some soul searching to do. Gerry Brownlee has decided that he doesn't want to be deputy anymore. So is it going to be Shane Reti? - I think it has to be Shane Reti. I mean, he look, he's a seasoned performer. He's been in parliament for a while now. I, of course, would love to see a Maori face in the deputy leadership role. But here's the thing with National, some of those people, and the ones that have remained in there have been there for a very, very long time. So Gerry might want to consider letting himself go for somebody younger to come through from the list. - Yeah, OK. Yeah, alright. (LAUGHTER) But Shane Reti, actually, does he deserve it? I mean, he lost his seat, Sue Bradford? - Well, there's quite a few of us up in the North in Whangarei and Northland just over the moon, actually, that for the first time in living memory, we've got Labour MPs up there in Northland and Whangarei, and starting to reflect more of our electorates up there. So it's a great day, really. I'm thrilled to see Willow-Jean Prime come through. And Shane's gonna still be in the parliament, because he is one of the more competent National MPs. - (LAUGHS) There's not many of them. - So I would suspect that Judith will be counting on him somewhat. - And so what about Judith? I mean, can we make any speculation that, it's now down to like 25%, Judith Collins, does she have a future? OK, so she kind of came in at a point where you wouldn't expect it to be winnable. The election, I mean, we saw Jacinda Ardern pull it off in 2017, but those were a specific, different set of circumstances, right? I think that, realistically, I'm not sure how she can necessarily hang on. The way that the list played out ` a lot of her more loyal supporters are in there. So that's another thing to kind of keep in mind. The other thing to keep in mind is I don't know who necessarily wants to be National Party leader at this point. We were saying that before the election. Does anyone actually want this job? And now it's like doubly so. I mean, looking at just sort of the huge dominance of Labour, who would realistically want to go up against that? And like maybe someone like Dr Shane Reti will be ready for the leadership in the next` heading into the next election, or maybe after that. But right now, who would want it? I think she actually endorsed him before the election for the next leadership, didn't she? I'm sure I heard` - She did. - She did say that. OK, well, Chloe Swarbrick, I just want to touch on her. She doubled her lead in Auckland Central. What does that say about Auckland Central? - That they love Chloe. Or a majority of them do. And yes, of course, she's put herself into a really strong position in relation to the Green Party itself. So it hasn't really become visible yet about whether she'll modify or lead them in some slightly different direction. But at the moment, of course, the Greens have been subsumed into the cooperation agreement, which, as everyone knows, I'm highly critical of. (LAUGHS) - Yes, just quickly on the Maori Party. So they picked up Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, who we just heard from then. But what actually, Matthew, can they do? - Well, I think they need to use the next three years to further build on the gain that they've made. I mean, for the last three years I've been in the wilderness. They haven't had the infrastructure, the policy platforms or even the money to build anew. And somehow, magically, they've pulled that off, so I would strongly suggest that they build and continue to build that kaupapa around them, their infrastructure for the next three years, and then really have a crack at the other Maori seats. - Just so they don't go back to political oblivion. - Well, absolutely. And I think Debbie mentioned that on the on the interview before around what they've done to get themselves to this point. Now, the other thing, too, is recognition that a lot of younger Maori are floating to the Maori party. And of course, we're seeing an increase in the and the younger Maori population coming into the voting base. So the demographics are changing from the traditional, I'll always go who I've always voted for, to a movement of young people. And we saw that through Ihumatao as well. - Have you seen that in terms of the numbers, Lara? - Not so far. I think we're still waiting for things like the New Zealand election study and similar to come for through for us to be able to test that and actually unequivocally say it. I think it's just so good for our democracy, for there to be genuine opposition. And we saw for decades and decades and decades, in the Maori seats, that Labour dominated. So I think having that sort of` They're really, you know, pushing themselves as that independent Maori voice. Having them there and being unapologetically Maori and being able to hold Labour to account is just an awesome thing for democracy, no matter whether you're Maori or not. - OK, we've only got a couple of minutes left. So let's just touch briefly, who's been watching the United States elections? OK... (LAUGHTER) Lara, it seems an extraordinarily gripping kind of election, so close though, really, I thought the Democrats would have had more of a landslide. - I think American politics generally is almost seems like watching a TV show all of the time. And I mean teaching, New Zealand politics We often have an issue where a lot of our, like, young people know more about American politics than New Zealand politics. I think for a lot of us, right, we're watching it going, 'We're happy it's not us.' (LAUGHS) - Matthew, what do you make of President Trump's claim? - Well, I` What can you say? First of all, I just want to say that isn't it fantastic we've also got a Maori woman as our Foreign Minister? Throw that in there. - Yes, OK. - But the thing is, with Donald Trump, we've had to put up with his hoha heart for the last four years. And what it has done has divided America straight down the middle. And I think Paddy's right. I mean, the election was Joe Biden's to lose. They left him in the basement. They closed the door, turn the light off so he could have a sleep. And thank goodness that paid off, because otherwise we could be in a position where we have to deal with this man, Trump, for another four years And I don't think that's in the world's interests. - So, I mean, Sue Bradford, you've been watching as well? Or you've just been not interested. - Oh, no, no. I'm gripped. My mother came from Wisconsin. - Wow. - So when Wisconsin went to the Dems, I was over the moon, yeah. Barely. - And now there's going to be recount in Wisconsin. - Yeah, but, our state got through. I hope it stays there. I mean, one of the learnings for me from the election has been actually coming to understand why Biden, why the Dems did put up Biden, because it was really hard to get a grip from a left, progressive point of view. Like, what a candidate? This is not the dream from any point of view. But in the end, it especially with the vote, really understanding that if they hadn't had someone like Biden, they never would have beaten Trump. - And it would have been another four more years. Yeah. So actually I went to grips with that has been interesting. - OK, well, we'll leave it there for the moment. Sue Bradford, Matthew Tukaki and Lara Greaves, thank you very much for your time. Stay with us. We'll be back after the break. Rising stars who have a shot to the top join the government's inner circle. Conor Whitten spoke to four of those newbies as they prepared to join their new job as cabinet ministers. - It's a journey reserved for the government's inner circle. A trip to the top ` To the Beehive's 10th floor. The decisions made here shape the country, and for the new kids at the cabinet table, it started with a phone call from the Prime Minister delivered last Sunday. It's still hard to believe. - I, literally, was a stunned mullet. I've often got a lot to say. - I think what I said was, "Wow." - Oh, it's a very, very special feeling. - She said to me, "This shouldn't be a shock to you because everybody talks really highly of you." But it was an absolute shock and it's still there. - Kiri Allen is one of four new cabinet members who've never served as a minister before. So if you told the 16-year-old Kiri Allen that in 2020, she'd be a cabinet minister, what do you think she would have said? - "What's that?" - 20 years ago, she had dropped out of high school and was working at KFC. - Growing up in a place like I did, the East Coast electorate, I feel that there was a quite a big disconnect from the` our day to day lives, for example, out in a place like ours, our region and from the places that made decisions for us. - Now she's the minister of Conservation and Emergency Management and holds two associate portfolios too. It means a trip across the road to the Beehive... - These are just some of my little trinkets I've accumulated over time. Sir Michael Cullen. Never go anywhere without the boss. - ...where a brand new office awaits. - It's all coming with me to the Beehive. Yep, it's all coming with me to the Beehive. (CHUCKLES) - She'll be joined on the fourth floor by the other new ministers. Where their offices will be side by side. After being sworn in at Government House, now the work officially begins. With it comes the pressure of expectation... - Give me a chance, man. I haven't got my shoes under the desk yet. - ...to deliver on the promises Labour has made. Three years ago, Labour promised no new mining on conservation land. It still hasn't happened. Do you stand by that? - Well, look, there were challenges. There is a range of challenges with that particular undertaking. I know that that's been subject of significant discussion over the past three years. We've campaigned on a very strong manifesto. My task now is to give effect to the undertakings that we made. - But is no new mining on conservation land one of those promises? - That isn't expressly stated in our manifesto because there were so many challenges with the wording. - So just to be clear, you're not committing to that anymore. - My understanding is that that's not` Those wordings` That wording wasn't in the manifesto. - Michael Wood, the new minister of transport, carries the weight of failed promises too. Light rail in Auckland should have already started. But he now won't commit it'll happen this term. - I'm not setting artificial deadlines on exactly when things start to happen, shovels get on the ground, we will get to a point where we will be able to give that information. But right now I'm getting briefed. - That pressure is new to Dr Ayesha Verrall, who's the freshest face of all. The first time MP has gone straight to Cabinet as Minister for Seniors and Food Safety and an Associate Minister of Health. She was thrust into the spotlight by COVID, advising the government on contact tracing at a time when the country's public health experts suddenly became its biggest stars. - What really inspired me was the experience during COVID of seeing how government could move really quickly to address the public health threat. - But politics brings a new level of scrutiny. Already, Verrall's come under fire for critiquing the government on contact tracing at the same time she was planning to run. - What I'd do differently is that I would have not done some of those interviews. - Should you have disclosed it? - Yes. Yes, I... Thing is, I couldn't have disclosed, actually, because I was under consideration for the nomination of Labour Party. You're not allowed to campaign. So what I should have done is turn down the interviews. - So it didn't impact your ability to scrutinise? - I think if you look at my report, it was absolutely, down the line, the best evidence we had at the time and totally critical of the government. - Jan Tinetti is the least-known of the new cabinet members. - I couldn't believe that she thought that I was coming into cabinet, that she'd selected me. - A second term MP and long-time school principal who spent 11 years leading Merivale School in Tauranga, which is rated decile 1. - When the bell would go at the end of the school day and most kids will race away and think, Oh, I wonder, if we're going to go to rugby practise or we're going to go off and go swimming. My kids were worried about was there going to be food in the cupboards at night, were they going to have another meal before the school breakfast the next morning. - Labour is scrapping the decile system, replacing it with an equity index. So the equity index is a far fairer way. And I'm really looking forward to that work. - How is it going to work? This is looking and seeing what each young person or each young learner brings to the situation rather than the group of children. So there's going to be a number of factors, they haven't all been decided upon yet, and that's the work that I'm looking forward to supporting Minister Hopkins on. - She's relishing the chance to make a difference having had a second chance herself. Just a year ago Tinetti was diagnosed with breast cancer. - It was pretty horrific at that time. I did have to have a mastectomy, so I have had quite major surgery at that time. I was very lucky in that it hadn't spread any further. - Now she's Associate Minister of Education and Minister for Women and Internal Affairs. - To step up into this role as the most amazing opportunity. And I think because of what I've been through, I see life a little bit different. And I know that I will make the most of every opportunity that's been given to me. An opportunity that comes with a seat at the table next to the Prime Minister and her cabinet, where four new ministers sit at their side. - Welcome back to our panel, Sue Bradford, Mathew Tukaki and Lara Greaves. Thanks for your time again. Let's just quickly talk about the cabinet. A massive change, Sue Bradford, is it a really significant change? I think it's fantastic to see 25% of Maori, and I hope those two Maori Party MPs will be holding them to account and really pushing them. And I'd just love to see some resolution on Ihumatao. I think it's a real test, and that they go for that quickly, about how much power those Maori MPs really will exert inside their cabinet. - That's a really key point. Matthew Tuakaki, do you think there will be a lot of pressure on those Maori Cabinet members to perform? - Oh, there will be, because we've got a lot of work to do around the Te Ao Maori world. So absolutely no doubt about that. But I mean, how great it is to have so much diversity in a cabinet in today's world? I mean, it's not just Maori, but the number of women in cabinet, the LGBTIQ mix. It's I think this is a real tell-tale sign of what our country is becoming. And for Maori, absolutely, there are so many issues that need to be dealt with. Ihumatao, water, housing, you name it, it's all on. But let's see where they go. - Lara Greaves, 65 seats now. I mean, Jacinda Ardern has a lot of peope to control. I mean, how historic is this presence in government? - Yeah, this is, like, super historic, something we didn't expect to happen under MMP. And you have to go back to 1951 to see a party get that much of the vote, given that 50%, it's just surprising. And I think it's one of those things for Labour's critics, is now they don't have the excuse. They don't have that handbrake of New Zealand First and Winston Peters. So it's just really waiting to see what they're going to do. All right. So this has to be the term of delivery. Does it, Sue Bradford. - It absolutely should be. Whether it is is another question. - So` OK. Matthew Tukaki, ff there was one priority area that you would say to the Maori cabinet caucus, what would you say? - Resolve all the outstanding Waitangi Tribunal claims around Kaupapa, everything from. housing to the children in care, the health claim, establishing all the recommendations that have been put forward, let's just get the job done. Use three years of majority government to clear the decks and put our people on the right trajectory. And what does it say to the world, Lara Greaves, that we have Nanaia Mahuta as our foreign minister? - I think it's fabulous. It's going to be great. I mean, it's one of those things where we were looking at the cabinet selections. And I think there's still that sort of implicit bias,or some people would call it racism, around who you ` or sexism ` as to who you would put in which portfolio, right? - So I think we're all surprised to see a woman in the Foreign Minister, let alone wahine Maori. I think it's just going to be really interesting to see, like, her, sort of, whakawhanaungatanga, manaakitanga, come through from a kingitanga whakapapa. Like just to see those Maori principles come through in a Foreign Minister role I think is a great thing. And it's a great thing for indigenous representation around the world. All right. With the cabinet` With the cabinet, sorry, not the cabinet ` With the panel! Just promoted you guys as well (!) Thank you very much for your time, Lara Greaves, Matthew Tukaki and Sue Bradford. And that is all from us for now. Thank you so much for watching. We will see you again next weekend, hei kona mai. Captions by Sally Harper and John Gibbs. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Able 2020 This programme was made with the assistance of the New Zealand on Air Platinum Fund.