Captioned by Sally Harper. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021 - Tonight on Sunday, is your job killing you? - I kept going and kept going and kept going. How I never had an accident is just beyond me. - Working hard and burning out. - Depression, anger issues, extreme fatigue. - I hardly left my bedroom for three months. - The hidden cost of being busy. - Just don't work yourself to the bone. - Not going to talk about your age. No. - 21. - 21. - 21. - And a Northland treasure. - You're gonna be on Sunday. - Oh my God. No one could script this. People couldn't write this. - How a filmmaker found gold. - We're fashionable movie stars. (CHOIR SINGS WAIATA) - Plus, we're inside the doomsday cult that QAnon. - The rest of us are asleep, but the Q people want to wake us up. - Are they deluded? - CHANTS: USA! USA! - How deep does it go? - Angela Merkel is Hitler's natural daughter. I went all the way up to aliens. - Are they dangerous? - This could get me into big trouble, you know? - It's no longer just a very fringe group that you can discount. They are having an impact. - Kia ora, I'm Miriama Kamo. When someone asks, 'How are you?', what's your reply? Do you say fine or do you say things like busy, flat out, under the pump? For many of us, busyness is a way of life, but it can also take a huge toll. Tonight, four Kiwis open up about their burnout and just how serious life had become. Here's Jehan Casinader. (CLOCK TICKS) - I just couldn't go another day without losing my mind. - I didn't really realise I was burning out until I was burnt out. - From the boardroom ` - Now, that's really exciting. - to the bedroom. - I would be jittery, shaking, and I couldn't concentrate. - From the kitchen ` - I don't like the look of that. - to the cowshed. - I kept going and kept going and kept going. - Kiwis are working hard and working long ` - The pressure was enormous. - and some of us are hitting the wall. - You could be a chief executive, you could be a farmer, you could be self employed. Burnout can and does strike anybody. - Yeah. - Wherever is creativity, commerce and cash ` - Morena! - Hi, how ya going? - Good. - you'll probably find Theresa Gattung. - What are we having to deprioritise? - These days, she's leading a medical start-up after creating My Food Bag. - I always have really loved my work, and the worst thing in my life is to be bored. No doubt about it. - She made a name for herself in the 90s as the youngest ever CEO of a listed company ` and the first woman. - I didn't set an age limit on it, I just knew that it was something that I really wanted to do. - When you were the CEO of Telecom, you were responsible for billions of dollars. How did you work with that amount of pressure? - First of all, you get used to it. Secondly, when you were in your 30s and early 40s, you still ` well, I did anyway ` think I was pretty invincible. I always just assumed that my body would come along with me, that I could travel here go there, speak there, chair this meeting, do that, hire this person, fire that person ` that I could just live like that forever. - It's not widely known, but three years ago, Theresa faced a reality check while at an event in Auckland City. - As I finished my speech, I started to feel extremely unwell. I was due at a board meeting that afternoon on the North Shore. I got in my car and I drove around the block a couple of times saying, 'Should I go home and lie down? 'I don't feel well. Or, should I go to this meeting?' And I chose to go to the meeting. I got there, soon as I walked in I basically collapsed. So they called the ambulance. That was the start of a year of recovery. - There was no medical diagnosis, but she didn't need one. So you were burnt out? - Yes. Exhaustion was at the root of it, definitely. - What had caused that? - Uh, going too hard for too long and total busyness, you know, total... go from one thing to another and carry the stress of all of that. I do believe that the body keeps score, has the last word, and the body said enough is enough and the office of Theresa Gattung is shutting down for a while. (CHUCKLES) - After 30 years on the go, this high flyer was grounded. Was it a shock? - Oh, yes, it was a shock, but it was also a relief. It did feel like a chance to reset. - Unable to drive, work or even walk, Theresa retreated to Waihi Beach ` - Hi, Mum. - Hi, darling. - The waves are really big down there today. Very dumpy. - to be cared for by friends and family. You pretty much went to bed, didn't you? - I did. (LAUGHS) I hardly left my bedroom for three months. - For the first time ever, her diary was almost empty. - I just wrote down two words: Absolutely exhausted. READS: Quiet day at home, still exhausted Easter Sunday, a very quiet day by myself, absolutely exhausted. Easter Monday, still completely exhausted. - One night, she forced herself to go to Auckland for a dinner date with Barack Obama. - I wrote here, I stood in the queue to meet with him and shook his hand. And I went to the toilet and felt dreadful and nauseous and just went home. I just rested and I read. But it took many months before I could even sort of start to function again. - Theresa's story is more common than you might believe. - I think we need to put work in its place. - Suzi McAlpine is a leadership coach. - What's one thing that surprised you about the last month? - She's worried that we're flogging ourselves at work. - I think there's a real prevalent culture of glorifying stress. We treat work as inherently virtuous and rest as inherently lazy. In fact, what the research shows is that productivity completely tanks after 50 hours a week. So you might be working 60 or 70 hours and you're really not achieving much more. - And yet, New Zealand has longer working hours than the majority of OECD countries. Burnout is commonly reported in key industries like teaching, nursing and law. - One of the difficulties about burnout is it's a slow burn. It doesn't happen overnight. You don't wake up one morning engaged and full of energy, and then the next minute you wake up burnt out. And so can be really difficult to spot. - Why do people keep soldiering on even while they're burning out? - Well, I think a lot of it is to do with stigma and culture. I think we are too afraid to put our hands up and say, actually, I'm struggling here, because we think it's going to be a career limiting move or that people will see us as mentally weak. - Asking for help is especially hard when you've got hundreds of cows to milk. - I love the challenge of farming. I was extremely driven, really passionate. Love the dairy industry. You live and absolutely breath it. - For eight years, Jason Halford was sharemilking in the central North Island. - So my alarm would go off at 3.50 in the morning. A good friend of mine used to say, 'Why are you getting up before five o'clock?' You know? And I'd go, 'Oh, well, I just have to.' Because I wanted to get X amount done in the day. Good girl. It's the competitive nature of milking cows. You know? Like, every day you get a docket and it says how much milk you're producing and you go, 'Ooh, 100 litres up today.' That was a real driver. I wanted everything to be perfect. - As his own boss, Jason, set his own hours. What was the longest stretch that you worked? - I'd be scared to admit it, but I would definitely be calendar year. - You went for a whole calendar year without a break? - Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I... yeah. It's not something to be proud of. It's... it's really not. I didn't take enough time off, regular time off. I was truly fatigued. How I never had an accident is just beyond me. So foolish, looking back at it, but it was... I was in it, my mind wasn't telling me, 'Oh, Jason, you should stop for a while.' I just kept working. The amount of time I spent with my kids and my wife, pretty minimal. I had a friend I was talking to and he said to me, 'You know, every time that I'm talking to you 'on the phone, you're` you're working, and I'm not.' (SNIFFS) I could hear his kids in the background. Couldn't hear mine. You know, just don't work yourself to the bone. Yeah, work hard at times, but have some time off. Because, man, it was a shitty place. Work's not everything. Work's not everything. - Coming up ` - We have to change the way that we're working. - beating burnout before it begins. - When someone asked me to do something I don't want to do, I just say no. - Plus, how much responsibility should our bosses take? - It's the workplace that's causing the problems. * - When you're in this rat race, there is no end. - Jenny Eastwood is a millennial, a business owner and a survivor of burnout. - I didn't have another choice. It was like, you have to change the way you work or you're going to go insane. - As a copywriter, Jenny creates words and stories for clients around the world. - We can customise it accordingly. - When she started her business last year, she gave it everything. - I'd wake up at about 7.00. The first thing I would do would be check my phone. What emails have come in that day? Like, who's messaged me? What leads have I got? This whole day, from the minute I open my eyes in the morning, was constant influx of information, stimulation, overload, stress... I was hardly eating. I felt like lunch was a distraction in the day and I used to resent getting hungry because I was like, no, I can't take a break right now. I need to just keep going. - Jenny was seduced by Instagram posts from young entrepreneurs overseas. - All I was exposed to were these women who were my age who had this dream. They were buying their dream home. But not only were they buying their dream home, they were renovating it and making it beautiful and taking these amazing holidays and buying all these fancy things. I thought, well, I'm not nailing it with what I'm doing right now. So naturally, I need to do twice as much. I need to work harder. I couldn't sleep at night. If I tried to shut my eyes, all I would think about were landing pages, sales pages, my next Instagram post. At the worst of it, I didn't even leave my house for three whole weeks. I mean, I literally didn't even go as far as my letterbox for three weeks because I was just holed up on my computer. And I have never felt so terrible in my entire life. - During COVID, many people, like Jenny, have got used to working from home. Leadership coach Suzi McAlpine says this doesn't always mean better work life balance. - You've got Zoom call after Zoom call after Zoom call. You know, Zoom fatigue is really real. - Did you drink enough water? - Yep. - OK, good. There used to be a time when we would finish work and we would go home and we would start our personal lives. Well, that line has blurred. You might be getting emails at 10 or 11 o'clock at night, and still watching your children or putting them to bed. And so I think this 'Always on' culture has contributed to that sense of overwork. - While self-employed people can control their own hours, most of us are at the mercy of our employers. - Often when we talk about burnout, we focus on the individual, on the person who's experiencing the burnout, when really it sits squarely in the workplace. It's your workplace that's causing the problems. What I get annoyed at is organisations saying, you know, here is a resilience course, here are some yoga courses, but we're not going to change the leadership practises or the workplace that's causing the stress in the first place. Burnout is not going to be fixed by a fruit bowl in the lunchroom. - Suzi says bosses must take responsibility for workplace culture, encouraging staff to work flexibly without taking on too much. - We need to get better at looking at what we're expecting workers to do with the resources that they have to do it. - But what about jobs that naturally come with heat? - I do enjoy pressure. I work well under pressure. You've got to have stuff on the stove. You've got to be doing stuff here. You have to be able to manage your time very efficiently. - You'll remember Ben Bayly as a former host of My Kitchen Rules. - Guys, unfortunately, I got one of those overcooked ribs. - Last year, he faced his own test ` - One of the best oysters in New Zealand. - opening his signature restaurant Ahi in central Auckland. - Very graceful. - Mm. - (LAUGHS) - Not graceful at all, but that's amazing. - It was probably the hardest thing I've ever done. COVID hit, sort of, right in the middle of it. If this business failed, I would have lost everything that I'd worked for. I would have lost my home. And so that pressure weighs on you as well. You're waking up at 6 and you're here by sort of 7, 8 o'clock in the morning and you're finishing at 12, 1, 2 o'clock in the morning. So the sleep deprivation is` is enormous. Working over a hundred hours per week. - A hundred hours. - A hundred hours, easily. I think 118 was the biggest week I worked. - What sort of toll does that take on you? - I mean, I was an arsehole, you know, I was so driven and determined to achieve and to open this restaurant that everything just fell away. I mean, it ain't cool to be like that. It ain't... It doesn't make you a better cook, better leader, better person. I mean, when you behave like that and you go home, you have to look at yourself in the mirror. You wake up feeling guilty all the time. You know, I'm a crap dad, I'm a crap husband, um, the weeds are growing long in the lawn. - Ben has worked at this pace for most of his 25 year career. What has the sacrifice been? - Depression, anger issues, extreme fatigue An enormous toll. - How do you feel when you look back at that period? - Um, embarrassed. Um... Still proud of what I've achieved, but it was ugly. I didn't get there the right way. - Ben has made well-being a priority in his business, bringing in a four day week for his chefs and building a supportive culture in the kitchen. - You know, I love seeing the look on people's faces when they come and enjoy an experience that's been created by our team. Right, who's first? - He's also created boundaries around his own time. - When someone asked me to do something I don't want to do, I just say no. And saying no is a big part of finding better work life balance. It's just food. No one's going to die, it's just food. And there's more to life than standing at a stove and roasting hapuka. - As much as you enjoy that. - As much as I enjoy it. Yeah. - Jenny is learning to block out the constant noise of work. - Now, instead of having 20 things on my to do list, I will have two major things, that's all. I clock off no later than 6pm and that is clock off. There is such a ridiculous pressure, especially with social media, to keep up with the Joneses and be doing more when we all need to be doing less. - When the sun comes up, you'll find Theresa in a pool, not a boardroom. - You know, I saw something the other day that said 60 is the new 40. And I thought to myself, 'Bullshit.' 60 is not the new 40. I'm not going to go at that pace anymore. - What advice would you give your younger self? - That life is a marathon, not a sprint. That there is time to do everything, but not between breakfast and morning tea. - And as for Jason, his alarm goes off a bit later these days. He quit sharemilking and now works for Pamu, managing six farms around Taupo. - Without a doubt, it took me 18 months to come right. - You're the leader. - My advice to anyone is you've got to stop to smell the roses. - Yeah. - And if that's taking your kids to the park and playing with your kids and investing in their time, those little things are massive. - For Jason, this message is deeply personal. - As humans, we're` We're a bit slow to learn, you know, and we have people around us that die. And... your personal health is the most important thing. There's no point` There's no point working the life of two men to find out that you're broken at the other end. You know, don't do it. - Absolutely true. Now, Suzi McAlpine has a book out called Beyond Burnout. We'd love to hear your thoughts. How are you tackling the culture of busyness? Jump on our Facebook page and tell us, Sunday TVNZ. Next, meet two of Aotearoa's most delightful, most unlikely film stars. - I would just be behind the camera thinking, oh, my God, no one could script this. People couldn't write this. (BOTH LAUGH) - We're not going to talk about your age, but what's your secret? Is it love? - Love and a sip of Jim Beam. * - Hoki mai ano. Turning 100 is a milestone marked by a postcard from the Queen. Northlander Isey Cross marked her 100th birthday in a documentary all about her and son, James. It's a riot of sass, love and a life well lived, and a story that pulled filmmaker Florian Habicht out of despair. Tamati Rimene-Sproat captures a story behind two of our newest, oldest and most engaging stars. - Tahi, rua, tahi, rua... - Tonight is a sell out at the flashest theatre in Auckland ` - Oh, hi! - The Civic. - Kia ora. - Two of New Zealand's newest stars about to make their big screen debut. - I'm not going to talk about your age. - No. - 21. - 21. - 21. - I never, ever thought that I would be making a movie with my mum. It's just to look into who we are and how we live our life. - James said to me right in the beginning, he said, Mum's the boss. She has to be happy with this film. She has to like you. Seem to be able to capture these amazing characters that are very Northland. Yeah, just their spirit, it's hard to describe, but it's` you don't get that anywhere else. - Florian Habicht made a career telling stories about real people from real places. It doesn't get much more real than the far north, - For me, the further north I travel, the more special and, you know, spiritual and beautiful it gets. If I did have to choose a place on the planet where I feel the most at home, it would be Northland. - Born in Berlin, at eight years old his family moved to Paihia. Florian's dad, famous photographer Frank Habicht, the man who shot Swinging 60s London. - He was in the right place at the right time with his camera. My dad taught me photography, and when I was 16 and 17 I took most of my high school photographs here. It's like an open air studio. - But photography didn't work out. Film became his passion. Especially documentaries about Northland's characters. - As a filmmaker, using your intuition is the most important thing. And it's the hardest thing quite often. - Kia ora, New Zealand. - Kia ora. - Welcome to Kaikohe Demolition Derby. - 2004's Kaikohe Demolition, his first big success. - When you make a film, you put your heart and soul into it for two years, that's your life. - But the follow up is always the hardest part. - My last premiere was Spookers, and I was commissioned to make a film about Spookers Scarepark, in Auckland. It had a cinema release and it pretty much, just to be blatant, it bombed. - Florian tanked too. - Walk around Grey Lynn and all you see is the big cars and houses. And I just I just thought, man, you know, like I did actually just feel like a loser. You just` I just felt forgotten about. Nobody wanted to fund my new projects. So many filmmakers, after they've shot a film in this country, they have years of mental health problems getting over all the challenges. - Where you at the point where you were thinking about giving it up? - Yes. But, you know, got to keep on going. - Florian turned to the dark side, directing ads like this. - Bang. Snap the neck like that. And then you'll be... stop talking. Really quiet. No more chatterbox. Like you was before. - I got asked if I want to do a campaign for Instant Kiwi. And the reason why they approached me was because they wanted to do something with real people. - But this time those real people came to him. - I remember getting a postcard from a guy called James, in Kawakawa. The postcard said, 'Hi, I live with my mother who is turning 100 in a month. 'And if you put us and your ad, my mum promises to bake one of her famous apple crumbles 'for you and the crew.' - So Florian followed his puku. - Nek minnit, the rest is history. - Kia ora, I'm James and this is my mum, Isey, and Mum's turning 100 years old in three weeks time. And we're planning a big party for that, eh, Mum? - Big event. - Even. Yeah. - (LAUGHS) - That was just the start. Out the back of Kawakawa, Florian had found his next movie stars. - Kia ora, Florian. Oh, you still got taller! - Kia ora, ko Tamati. - Kia ora, Tamati. Welcome to our home and thank you for coming up. - Thank you for having us. Most welcome. - Yes. - I can't talk because Florian's just arrived with a film crew. We're gonna be on Sunday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Hello, Isey. my name is Tamati. - Tamati? - Yes, nice to meet you. - Nice meeting you. - I feel like I'm in the presence of royalty. Superstar. - Oh, I dunno about superstar. - Yeah, you are, now you're a film star. - (LAUGHS) - Isey and son, James Cross. Isey was born in 1919. She's the boss around here. - Yes. - (LAUGHS) I've got a big stick. If they don't listen, I give 'em a tap on the leg or on the bum. - (LAUGHS) - She will, too. Yeah. - But all in good fun. - All in good fun. - Yes. - You hop in and I'll straighten up. - James, 65, is his Mum's full time carer. He'd written in for the Instant Kiwi ad for some extra cash for Isey's upcoming 100th birthday party. - I needed about X amount of money to pay for the alcohol. - But there was also another motive. - I wanted someone to come and film the big, you know, the party at a hall for her 100th. - I'd promised myself not to make another doco, so I was very careful. But I said, James, I'll film your mum's birthday. But the minute I stepped in and I saw all their treasures on the walls and their carvings and them I, like, deep down I just knew that I going be making your film. - Nek minnit. - And so I just kind of went into their zone, into their world, and I felt like I was a nature cinematographer. Like, working for David Attenborough, you know? I would just be behind the camera thinking, 'Oh my God, no one could script this. 'People couldn't write this.' - Someone said to me, 'Oh, your mum's not gonna get to a hundred.' - I say, don't worry, be happy. - No crew, no fancy lighting or equipment. - It was just Florian, myself and my mum. And that was it. I just said, just keep the camera rolling and just film us. - Just make sure you don't catch me in the nuddy. - (BOTH LAUGH) - That is a sort of a scary thing because it's like showing my mum to the world. I'm inviting you into our hearts. You know? - We're not going to talk about your age, but what's your secret? Is it love? Lots and lots of love? - Love and a sip of Jim Beam. - Love and a sip of Jim Beam. (LAUGHS) The secret to looking beautiful? Guess it's natural, eh? - Just natural. Yeah. - Just natural. Some of us are very blessed, eh? - You are. - Oh, thank you very much. I'll take that. - Isey, she's just the most natural, incredible movie star. It's like hanging out with one of those old stars from the 1930s, 40s, 50s. She's got that air about her. And, you know, and you've got to hope she's in a good mood. - What did you think about working with Florian? - He's just another person. - (BOTH LAUGH) - End of story. - What Florian captured was a unique relationship between mother and son. - What do you think the message of this film should be? - Love, and a good get together. - Is it celebration? Celebration of aroha, celebration of love? - That's a true word you just said. After two years, the film is finished. They're off to Auckland for the big premiere. When was the last time you were at the Civic Theatre? - Second World War. - Was the last time you were at the Civic? - Yes. Yeah. - And now you're going back to watch a movie where you're the main star. - (CHUCKLES) It'll be awesome. - Tonight, Kawakawa comes to Auckland. Dressed to the nines, ready to see Isey and James on the big screen. (CROWD CHEERS) And celebrate her 102nd birthday. Happy birthday. You look beautiful. And so do you, James. - Kia ora, thank you for coming. - I'm going to give birth to another film, and it's on the actual birthday of the film's subject, and it's not just a birthday, it's Isey's 102nd birthday. (CHOIR SINGS WAIATA) - The premiere is a smash. For James, though, as always, tonight is all about his mum. - It's mainly on her, because she deserves it. - I'll have a shot of whisky again. - As you must. - As I must. - Here's to the film, and here's to all of us. - ALL: All of us. (GLASSES CLINK) - Thank you for having us. - You're most welcome. - Ooh. (LAUGHTER) - Now it's your turn. (LAUGHTER) - Nga mihi, Whaea Isey, raua ko James. The film is officially out in May, but you might be able to catch one of the early screenings happening this month. Well, coming up next, QAnon. Just a group of conspiracy theorists or something more dangerous? - It appeals to almost everybody and it really is almost anybody that can be sucked in. - I was always a bit suspicious about the 9/11 thing. - So you don't believe 9/11 happened? - Oh, I think` I don't know whether it did or not. * - Kia ora ano. For those caught up in it, QAnon is very real, but for most of us it's a baffling mega conspiracy that has us scratching our heads in complete disbelief. Those who follow Q believe what seemed to be the most unbelievable stories. But millions of people have gone down the rabbit hole of this online cult. Sarah Abo examines the truth behind QAnon. - RECORDED VOICE: Do you want to free yourself? It's easy. Follow Q. - If QAnon was a movie script, it would be too far fetched. - The world is currently witnessing the largest mass treason event in living history. - The world ruled by a cabal of Satan worshipping elites who prey on children and harvest their blood, with Donald Trump our only saviour, ready to defeat the forces of darkness. And that's just the start. - That's just the headline base theory. It goes so much deeper than that. - Discover the names and faces of the cabal agents who have colluded to destroy our republic. - How deep does it go? - Uh, the German Chancellor Angela Merkel is Hitler's natural daughter. There's theories about Donald Trump being a time traveller, aliens, any` any conspiracy theory you've ever heard, including many you haven't, find a home in QAnon. - But, I mean, you couldn't have believed that stuff, surely? - I went all the way up to aliens. - Jitarth Jadeja is an ordinary guy who fell headlong into this extraordinary world. An economics student who for two and a half years lived and breathed the ultimate conspiracy theory in all its madness. Jitarth, how does a guy end up down the QAnon rabbit hole? - I was very disconnected from reality. - It all began in December 2017 when Jitarth was struggling to finish his degree. He became socially isolated and was drawn to the conspiracies swirling online. Stumbling onto QAnon, he fell for it hook, line and sinker. - It's very` it's a very dark world. - You thought that politicians were paedophiles. - Yeah. Especially, you know, post- Jeffrey Epstein, Jimmy Saville as well. I definitely thought that there was a cabal of elite paedophiles. This is almost like an existential battle between good and evil. - But how could you believe it? How could you believe something so fantastical? - What you do is that, you want something to be true. You want` I wanted someone to save us. - To comprehend how someone could believe the unbelievable, you first have to understand how QAnon works, and just how seductive this parallel world can be. - QAnon is a cult-like conspiracy theory that holds that a military intelligence insider is using a variety of message boards to leak clues to an upcoming purge of the Deep State. - You've lost me already. It's sort of hard to keep up. - (LAUGHS) It is. Anytime you spend any kind of time talking about this in any kind of depth, people just immediately glaze over. And that's one of the reasons why it's been so hard to get people to take it seriously, because it is so bizarre. - Mike Rothschild is a leading writer and researcher on conspiracy theories who spent the past year trying to make sense of it all. - The original prophecy of QAnon is that Donald Trump is going to unleash a purge, a mass arrest of the paedophile cabal that runs the world. Well, Donald Trump can't do that anymore, but they're not going to give up on believing QAnon. They've come too far. - Save our children! - Precise numbers are impossible to gauge, but millions of people are thought to be caught up in QAnon's wacky beliefs. - There are people in QAnon who are really just concerned about children. There are people in QAnon who really just hate Hillary Clinton. And there are people who do want to overthrow the government. So it appeals to almost everybody and it really is almost anybody that can be sucked into it. - We'll be looking into that over the next short period of time. - Incredibly, it all stems from a single offhand comment made by Donald Trump in October 2017 - He was having dinner with a bunch of uniformed military higher-ups. And he said` - Maybe it's the calm before the storm. - 'This could be the calm before the storm.' - What's the storm? - Could be the calm before the storm. - And the press was like, what are you talking about? - What storm, Mr President? - You'll find out. - Now, in reality, he wasn't saying anything. That's what Donald Trump did as president. He just said stuff. But people wanted there to be a storm and it caught on very quickly because of that. - On forums in the darkest recesses of the Internet, vague and cryptic messages began to be posted, supposedly by a mysterious figure known as Q. Crumbs of information that was shared and deciphered by an online army eager to interpret their meaning. - It was like a Tom Clancy novel happening right outside your door. And then people wanted to be part of that. - Spawning ever more outlandish explanations about what was really going on. - The reason why QAnon is so convoluted is actually the same reason why a lot of conspiracy theories are really convoluted. The more details you add to something, the more real it sounds. - So is the idea that the rest of us are ignorant if we don't understand it? - Yes, the rest of us are asleep, but the Q people want to wake us up. (CROWD CHANTS) - Free Victoria! Free Victoria! - Turbocharged by fears about COVID, QAnon has found fertile ground. - This is between good and evil! - Pulling believers from every walk of life. Michelle Gilman is a hard-working single mum who's raised two kids. Back in QAnon's early days, at the age of 51, she headed down the rabbit hole into a warren of unconventional thinking where nothing is quite as it seems. - Once I discovered an alternative narrative, it really started to change the way I think. I mean there's... What is there, 4953 Q posts. - And you work through every one of them. - I've read every one of them, yeah. And I` Or I've listened to someone interpret every one of them. - So for you, Q is a person? - Q's more than one person and... I believe it's a team of people with very high level intelligence clearance. And so` and that comes through with some of the posts that Q has put out. - RECORDED VOICE: It's time to research for yourself. You will find many things, among them an unprecedented number of... (FADES) - With the dedication of a scholar, Michelle has studied this alternate reality, forming her own world view, very different to that of mainstream society. - It probably makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist, and I'm quite happy to wear that tag if people want me to be that, but` - Are you a conspiracy theorist? - No, I just believe in questioning. I was always a bit suspicious about the 9/11 thing. - So you don't believe 9/11 happened? - Oh, I think` I don't know whether it did or not. It hasn't been proven either way. The murder of JFK, the murder of JFK Jr. - Do you think there was a deep state conspiracy behind that? - I think there's a Deep State group of people that are behind that, yeah. This could get me into big trouble, you know. (LAUGHS) - What? - This, being on television, talking about this sort of stuff. - Why? - Well, because there are a lot of people that don't want that information to come out. - Well, next, how Donald Trump helped one man see the light. - Everything was tippy-top. - The obvious manipulation was almost genius, really. - We call it sometimes tippy-top shape. - I've been manipulated here. It's so obvious. * - It may have begun as an online conspiracy, but the shock waves of QAnon have already spread far beyond the virtual world. - MEGAPHONE: Knock knock, we're here. - Not only did its supporters lead the storming of the US Capitol building, kidnaps, assassination plots and murder have all been linked to QAnon fanatics, including this bombing in Nashville on Christmas Day, carried out by a man convinced the world is controlled by a race of reptiles disguised as humans. - So it's here and there are people here who believe this stuff. - Nick Kaldas is a former top cop who is concerned about what could happen here in Australia. - I think we have seen, obviously, right wing extremism and really nutty conspiracy theorists before, but the magnitude and the reach and their ability to influence people is probably unprecedented. So it's no longer just a very fringe group that you can discount and say, well, they're just a bunch of nuts. They are having an impact, and I don't for a minute doubt that there are a number who may, ultimately, move from rhetoric to some sort of action. - Trump supporters are not violent people. QAnon, Q supporters are not violent people. - Did what happened at the Capitol not seem violent to you? - Um... Yeah, it was pretty, pretty outrageous. But there's a lot of, um... There's a lot that's not being told, you know, there's a lot of` a lot of stuff that's not being told. - Michelle Gilman sees QAnon as a force for good, not evil. She believes we all need to wake up to what's going on around us and the threat posed by what she calls the Deep State. - RECORDED VOICE: These criminals are also known as the Deep State. - Well, the Deep State's the elites of the world. The Deep State's the people that have all the money. They've got plans for the world. One world government, no borders, no sovereignty. They're going to` they're trying to take away people's free speech. - When you say that people's speech has been suppressed, you feel as though you're being silenced? - Um, I don't think anyone's intentionally silencing me, but we hesitate to speak out because, um... people think you're crazy, you know. And... - Do you think you're crazy? - No, I don't think I'm crazy. I just think I know what I know. - Jitarth Jadeja knows first hand the impact QAnon can have on relationships with others and how the isolation it brings can become a vicious cycle. - QAnon only adds to that because it separates them from society, from their family and their friends. - So families are losing loved ones to this theory. This crazy conspiracy theory. - They've already lost. Hundreds of thousands have already lost, like, it's an epidemic. - Jitarth spend two and a half years caught in the grip of QAnon before he finally got out. Quite unexpectedly, it was all thanks to Donald Trump. - There was a straw that broke the camel's back, at a time when I was probably about teetering on the edge. Essentially, someone asked QAnon to get Trump to repeat a phrase, in order to prove some kind of connection between Q and Trump. And the phrase was tip top. Tippy-top shape. Four months later, Donald Trump used that phrase in front of the White House. - It is special and we keep it in tip top shape. We call it sometimes tippy-top shape. - I was like, wow, that's` that's a very unique phrase. I've never heard that phrase before. Right? That has to prove some kind of connection. It was only until much, much later when I looked into it a little deeper, that is just something that Donald Trump says. - My clubs, they're tippy-top. It's got to be in tip-top shape. Everything was tippy-top. - It was the obvious manipulation in this, that A) someone had to pick up on the fact that Donald Trump says this phrase ` - I like tippy-top. - to find a way to use that in order to slide into this, sort of, conspiracy, as proof, was almost genius, really. It was genius. And I looked at that and I thought, I've been manipulated here. It's so obvious I've been manipulated. So that was my moment. QAnon has only been around since October 2017. That's not even four years. And it's now got millions of people around the world. They'll harm, because they still think this plan is going to happen and Donald Trump is in control. If they become the storm, if they start thinking they need to bring about this doomsday, imagine what they could do. - OK. Let's take a look ahead now at a special we're putting together for you. Lockdown last year turned everything on its head. We look back at all we celebrated and all we've forgotten. - This plan is our best shot at success. Staying at home will save lives. - At the start of 2020, we were looking like we were going to have the best, busiest January on record. - My intentions in 2020 was to become an Olympian and get my, uh, my Olympic number. Olympic qualification tournament has been cancelled. - I was very worried. If Flaxmere gets hit, we're gone. It'll devastate us. - Like a movie, really, isn't it? A bad scripted movie. - This could be a real national disaster. - You never want someone you love to pass away like that. - I lost everything. - That's when we really knew that this thing called coronavirus was real. - Yeah, it's been so tough for so many of us. We'll bring you that story soon. That is our show for tonight. Do share your thoughts on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram ` And stay with us for the season premiere of Beat The Chasers, next on 1.