- Kei aku manuhiri tuarangi, rarau mai ki te whare korero o Te Hui. Ko Mihingarangi tenei e mihi atu nei ki a koutou katoa. Welcome to The Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. E taro ake nei ` a high-trust model for businesses, but how do our beneficiaries fare when it comes to accessing support in lockdown? We speak to the Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. - At times, it hasn't been as quick as what it needs to be. - Virologist Dr Natalie Netzler returns to answer your questions on COVID-19 and vaccinations. - The Pfizer vaccine is recommended for any stage of pregnancy and protects against those really serious effects of COVID-19. - And we discuss the impact of the lockdown on our whanaunga in the Cook Islands. - Some people actually enjoyed it. They enjoyed having the place to themselves, not having these pesky tourists around. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021 - Tahuti mai. Advocates for Aotearoa's most vulnerable whanau say the Delta lockdown is causing enormous stress and creating greater inequity. I spoke to the Minister of Social Development and Employment, Carmel Sepuloni. Advocates are telling us that vulnerable families are doing it tougher this lockdown. Is that what you're hearing your end too? - Oh, yeah, certainly. I think the context is different from any other lockdown that we've had. So many more families and communities impacted by having been at locations of interest, and so there are much more in self-isolation, and their usual community of support are often in self-isolation as well, and so it is much harder. - How are beneficiaries and vulnerable families receiving extra support? - We've seen a significant increase in the requests for food grants. 94% of those have been approved to date, which goes to show the vast majority that are ringing through are actually eligible. - At the weekend we had 32,000 close contacts isolating, and if you take, like, the average household in New Zealand as 2.7, we possibly have about 90,000 New Zealanders unable to leave their homes, many in our poorer suburbs ` Mangere, Otahuhu, Manukau ` and when they need food parcels and other necessities, how are they receiving those or being supported? - So, of course, there's the MSD line, so the 0800 559 009 phone line, and as I said, the vast majority of food parcels or, sorry ` food grants have been approved there. On top of that, we've got social services out there that are providing direct support to families when they contact them and say that they need help. We've invested in some of the work that the Student Volunteer Army is doing to be able to get those basic necessities out to people. And where all else fails, then there is also CDEM in the different regions, so Civil Defence can support as well. - So is that what you're encouraging people to do? You know, if you've got 90,000 New Zealanders in self-isolation because they've been at one of the sites of interest and it's not their own fault, but they can't get out of the house, are you saying that it's either one of the volunteers or they have to call the Civil Defence? - Look, there's a whole ecosystem of support, and different people, different families will be able to seek support across that ecosystem, depending on what their financial situation is, where they are and what they may be entitled to. The main gist of it is trying to make sure that all New Zealanders who are either experiencing hardship and/or are having to self-isolate at this time, that there are options for them to be able to reach out and get the help that they need. - So what are you doing? Is MSD identifying who these whanau members are and then sending their names and information through to these volunteer organisations? Is that how the net works? - Well, by and large, we're responding to the ones that come through to us that we can support directly with MSD support. But then MSD will give advice if they don't meet the eligibility criteria with regards to the other supports that are in place in their particular community, and so it is about utilising that whole ecosystem. - Again, this lockdown, it feels like there's a high-trust model for businesses ` you can apply online, and some people are getting, you know, money within hours. Yet when you're a beneficiary or low-income, you're relying on volunteers. That doesn't sound very equitable to me. - I don't think that's true. As I said, Mihi, the vast majority of those who are ringing through to apply for food grants are actually getting them approved. We've also adjusted our system to ensure that it's fit for purpose. So where previously, or outside of Alert Level 3 or 4, people would need to show certain documentation, they can give that documentation either via email, or even verbally in some instances. We've adjusted things with payment cards so that people who are self-isolating can actually have a family member take it to go and pick up the food for them and drop it off to them. - And I'm hearing that, and I'm hearing that your phone service is quicker and you've got more manpower, if you like, on those phones. The question I was talking about is the New Zealanders that are self-isolating that are living in poverty and can't get to the food bank or can't take their card to the supermarket, are they required to rely on volunteer groups? - As a government, we also have to recognise that many of our social services ` our iwi providers, our Maori providers, our Pacific providers ` are closer to the ground. They are connected into those communities, and we absolutely respect that. - So how does MSD financially recognise and compensate these organisations? - Last week we did put out an additional $2.83 million to support the efforts of our social services, iwi, and Maori providers and Pacific providers, to be able to support them in their efforts on the ground. So it's not government or social services; it is certainly, I think, a very important partnership in responding to the need that exists. - Is it a partnership, though, for some of those Maori providers? Because we heard a year ago when they jumped into it and started working and helping out in terms of food parcels and hygiene and just doing health checks and anything else that was required by them, And they said, actually, 'It's time for MSD to start devolving some of the putea, the funds to us, 'so we can do this with our communities,' and here we are again, and they're asking for the same thing. Nothing's happened. - Well, I mean, we are putting money out to those providers, and, you know, and I do recognise the work that they are doing. It is a partnership, you know, including, you know, a few of them have asked that we co-locate MSD staff with them so that they don't have to necessarily send their people on to MSD offices in instances they can get the support that they need on-site, and that's certainly happened. So we continue to look at how we can strengthen that partnership, but the lines of communication, from what I've been told, are very good. - I guess in terms of social service providers, there needs to be some equity as well. And if you look at the difference in the MSD budget ` $20 billion over the last two years ` compared with Whanau Ora ` $136 million. And here we've got organisations like Waipareira who are, you know, who have had contact with 800 whanau so far. I think they received extra funding of $25,000. Is that enough? - Last year, again, we saw many organisations get baseline increased funding, but also, they got additional funding in acknowledgement of the fact that they were going to experience challenges due to COVID, and so there was extra funding put in place for that. Now, that doesn't mean that when we're hit with challenges like that, like we are now, sorry, that what they've got is enough, and that's when we need to step up and be able to respond to the immediate need, which is what MSD has been doing. - So when in the future is MSD going to start looking at devolving resources and power sharing? And a situation like this is a really good example, because you've got people on the ground that are doing the job of MSD. - Yeah, well, I mean, we're currently undertaking a piece of work around social sector commissioning and hoping to get the findings of that by the end of the year. We've been engaging with social sector organisations, including Maori providers, on how we can do this better, so always looking for ways to improve. - What's your message to Pasifika people who are still not sure about vaccinating? - My message to young Pacifica people is, in order to ensure your own health and in order to ensure the health of your family, your ainga, you need to get vaccinated. There's... All the conspiracy theories that have been put out there are absolute rubbish. The science supports this, and we really need our young people to get out and get vaccinated. - After the break, Maori virologist Dr Natalie Netzler answers your COVID questions. ('SHE'S A RAINBOW') Colourful people just can't help it. They act colourful, play colourful, drink colourful. And they never let the grey win. Fanta. For colourful people. SONG: # Colours in the air. # - Auraki mai ano. The number of Maori battling the Delta variant as a result of the latest COVID-109 outbreak is now in the double digits, with five Maori having lost their lives to the Coronavirus since the start of the pandemic. We had a huge response to last week's interview with Maori virologist Dr Natalie Netzler, so tonight D'Angelo Martin puts more of your COVID questions to the expert. Kia tahuri ake tatou. - Tena koe, Takuta Natalie Netzler. Thank you again for joining us here on The Hui. Now, does the vaccine affect fertility? - So far, from what we've seen from millions of people vaccinated worldwide and three clinical trials, there is no effect of the Pfizer vaccine on fertility. So it's reassuring for those that are trying for a baby that the vaccine is safe. I'd like to also add to that that the Pfizer vaccine is encouraged for all those who are pregnant, because what we've seen from COVID-19 infections in pregnant women is that pregnant women are much more likely to need ICU treatment, the babies are more likely to be born too early, and then once they're born, they're much more likely to need neonatal ICU care, so COVID-19 infection is very serious in pregnant women, so it's really important for those who are either trying for a baby or are pregnant to know that the Pfizer vaccine is recommended for any stage of pregnancy and protects against those really serious effects of COVID-19. It's also safe during breastfeeding, and you don't need to stop breastfeeding to get vaccinated. - Kia ora. Now, what effect might the vaccine have on Maori? - So it's really important to know that vaccination makes you much less likely to get very sick and much less likely to die. Like everybody after any vaccine, for a couple of days, you can feel a little bit off. You might have a sore arm from where the needle comes in. You might have a little bit of a headache or feel a bit tired. That is just the signs of your immune system working to make you protected after a vaccine. There's no virus in the vaccine, so that's not what's making you feel funny. It is just the vaccine making your immunity go to work. And that's an encouraging sign. So like everybody, Maori and non-Maori, you might feel a little bit off after your vaccine for a couple of days, but it will save lives. - Tena koe. And how do you know Maori are more vulnerable to COVID? - We know Maori are more vulnerable from the from the numbers. So, there was an article published in the New Zealand Medical Journal last year that showed that Maori were much more likely to die compared to non-Maori in Aotearoa, up to 50% more likely to die. We've also seen this in previous historical pandemics. The 1918 influenza pandemic killed seven times more Maori than non-Maori in Aotearoa. So we've seen from this pandemic and previous pandemics that Maori are more vulnerable. - Most people who get infected with COVID recover, so why is it such a big deal? - It's a big deal for two reasons. Firstly, people will die. You might recover, but there'll be vulnerable people around you that will still die, those that have cancer, those who have had organ transplants and their immune systems doesn't work in the same way, We're seeing in Fiji and places like Sydney that teenagers ` even young, healthy people in their 30s will still die. And these have massive impacts on our whanau and our communities. So while the majority of us will recover, we'll still lose people. And we're just learning about something called long COVID, which means that even after you've got rid of the virus, you might have long-lasting effects. - Can you elaborate more on the term long COVID? - Yeah, so what we're hearing more about ` reports overseas and then they're starting to be reported in Aotearoa ` is that there's this thing called long COVID, and this is a syndrome or a whole lot of symptoms that people are experiencing after they've got rid of the virus. So there's a lot of symptoms such as chest pain, headaches, dizziness, loss of memory and fatigue. And there's a whole lot of things that is classed as long COVID. But the thing that is upsetting about this is that it doesn't look like it's going away. We don't know how long this will last because COVID is quite a new thing. And so it could go on forever. You could have this thing for the rest of your life. So while you might get rid of the virus and recover, you might end up with something called long COVID, which means you'll have these long-lasting after-effects. - Is it possible to still spread the virus if you've been vaccinated? - So, while you're much less likely to spread the virus after you're vaccinated, it is still possible in some cases. What we're seeing is that if you are vaccinated, you're much less likely to have symptoms. And if you're less likely to have symptoms such as coughing or sneezing, then you're much less likely to pass that virus on. If you do get symptoms after you're vaccinated, it's also likely that it'll be much shorter. So there's a smaller window in which you can spread that. So while it is much less likely that you'll spread the virus after you are vaccinated, there is still a small chance, which is why it's important to wear your mask and stay in your bubble during a lockdown. - Why do some people spread the infection and others don't? - There are lots of reasons why some people tend to spread the infection and others don't. The activities they're doing tends to make one person more likely to spread it than another. For example, if you're outside, the virus doesn't tend to like UV light, it's much more vulnerable outside, so you're much less likely to spread it outside than inside in a crowded area. Also, if you're experience` experiencing symptoms such as coughing or sneezing, you're much more likely to spread the virus on, as opposed to someone that isn't coughing or sneezing. - Some say COVID is no worse than pneumonia or the flu. How do they compare? - So influenza ` the death rates of influenza change from year to year, so it's difficult to compare directly from COVID-19 because it changes all the time, which is why we have a seasonal flu shot. However, in recent years, on average, we can see that COVID-19 is around 20 times more lethal than a seasonal flu. Pneumonia is something different again. Pneumonia is a complication or something that happens to our lungs after we catch some infectious diseases. And actually, COVID-19 causes pneumonia. So you can't really compare them. However, COVID-19 and the flu, you can see that COVID-19 is much more serious and causes more deaths than the seasonal influenza in recent years. - Now, do you have any advice for people who are concerned about the vaccine still and want more information about it? - Yeah, it's really important that people go to a good source for information on the vaccine. So, in general, there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation on platforms like social media. Facebook just isn't a good place to get information on a vaccine; it's mostly opinion and very little fact. I would encourage people that want to learn more about the vaccine to go to their GP or health provider and ask lots of questions. Also, if you feel like you still need more, there are lots of places you can get information ` websites such as how Hauora Hour ` that offers an explanation of how the vaccine works. Or you can go to reputable websites such as the Ministry of Health, the World Health Organisation, or the Centres for Disease Control. These are all based on fact and science, and that's a good source of information to get more about vaccines from. - Dr Natalie Netzler ` Maori virologist studying at Auckland University, tena rawa atu koe mo era korero. - Nga mihi nui. - Hei muri i nga whakatairanga ka huri te kei o te waka ki Rarotonga. (INTRIGUING MUSIC) - While low vaccination rates for Maori in Aotearoa remain a grave concern, across Te Moana Nui a Kiwa it's a different story. Our Cook Island whanaunga have wasted no time rolling out their vaccination programme. And while COVID has taken a toll economically, Cook Islanders have pulled together and prevailed. I spoke to long-time resident of Rarotonga Derek Fox. What we've been talking about here is the low number of Maori vaccination rates ` at just 28%. But it's not the same story in the Cook Islands is it? What is your vaccination rate? - 96% of those eligible for vaccination have been vaccinated. There are people who didn't want to take the vaccination, which is what is happening in New Zealand as well. But 96%, which is pretty good, have taken it ` and that's the 16-years and over. They're now looking at, just as New Zealand has opened up to 12-year-olds to 16-year-olds, they're now looking at that too. And that` that could be quite an easy thing to do, because I think there's something like 700 people in that age group on Rarotonga ` that's where the bulk of the population is. So call it another 100 or 200 over and above that and you might be talking about 850-odd teenagers who would fit into that category. - What do you think the difference is between Cook Island Maori and New Zealand Maori in terms of accepting the vaccine or getting vaccinated? - Well, the Cook Island population, they know that they're pretty vulnerable and could be vulnerable. I'm not saying that they're, you know, gold standard, because they aren't necessarily, and there are people who are just as slack as we are here, who don't sign in and when they were talking about 'no kissing and shaking hands', you might as well forget about that, you know, in The Cooks, because people were still doing it. And The Cooks have a very high level of people who are Christian and go to churches. And so the idea of not being able to go to church and singing your hymns at the top of your voice was, you know, fairly alien for a lot of them. So there were all of those things to overcome. I think what has been really lucky about it all is they are islands. New Zealand has also helped out the vaccine, as Pfizer vaccine provided by New Zealand. And, you know, they've` as you've already said, they've vaccinated more than 11,000 people. And, you know, that` that provides a lot of shelter or a lot of shield. You know, we know that it doesn't mean you won't get the infection ` you could still get it, but it should stop you from getting really ill and dying. And so there's that bonus and people have bought into that on The Cooks. - Is the Cook Islands travel bubble a success story? When it hit, you had 4000 tourists there ` what's happened to them all? - Well, some of them, of course, have come home as their holidays have ended, but some of them have also decided they'll stay on. You know, why come back just to go into lockdown in New Zealand? So, I know people who have extended their holiday by another week. But it was very big for The Cooks. The Cooks had probably about 15 months of real pain in not having tourists. And this is a typical case of when you have maybe all of your eggs in one basket, or most of your eggs in one basket, you could get into trouble. So they had a big loss of income, like, 75%, maybe, of the country's income disappeared overnight. That made people quite self-resilient, and some people actually enjoyed it. They enjoyed having the place to themselves; not having these pesky tourists around. But the business people ` they really felt it. Even though the government, which had accumulated a sort of rainy day fund of about $60 million dollars, and they started spending that on wage subsidy and paying people who had lost 40% or more of their income, and that gave them the ability to retain some staff ` not at a full-time level, but to retain them. And that was important for when they opened up again, because you can't just switch a resort on just like that. But they did get up in the last three months to about just over 60% of what would be their normal tourist flow. Consequently, when New Zealand got those Delta cases, there was no question that the Cooks closed off incoming passengers. So there haven't been any incoming passengers since the day that that first Delta case was announced. - You talked about earlier the long distance to get to a dairy or a shop, and I guess that's a good segue to talk about the government seed project. Can you run us through that seed project that was implemented 18 months ago and what have the fruits of those harvests been like? - Well, it's exactly that ` the fruits. And what happened was that when the, um` when the first lockdown occurred in New Zealand, and suddenly, you know, a whole lot of things just stopped dead like that. So they cleared the land and they started planting food, and then they started sharing those things. And then there were other people who went fishing, and so they would come back and they'd have fish and they'd trade fish for vegetables and fruits and so on. And not all the islands, of course, have a lot of fertile soil to grow stuff ` some of them are pretty tough in terms of growing things. They might be able to live with coconuts, they've got fish and a few other things that they can grow. So it's not as if it's all easy-peasy, but it's a good scheme and people have taken to growing. - It's a simple idea, but a fantastic idea in lockdown. I imagine many New Zealanders would have hoped for a packet of seeds in the mailbox too. (CHUCKLES) - Yeah, yeah. And I` you know, I agree with that. And that's the sort of thing when you're probably a society that is a couple of steps closer to self-sufficiency, the way we might have been at one stage. - Tena koe. - No reira, kia ora, tena koe. Mihimihi koutou e mataki mai na. - We leave you tonight with Anna Coddington's new waiata aho from the Kono Toru compilation ` launching September 3rd. Kati ra ` kua hikina te hui e hoa ma. Noho ora mai ra. (CHILLED, MELANCHOLIC MUSIC) Captions by Ellen Sinclair and Jade Fernandes. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021 - ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. - The Hui is made with support from New Zealand On Air.