Dover Samuels is in his 80s now, but the trauma of being beaten for speaking te reo Maori at school still fills him with anger and pain. - We used to get on our horse, three or four of us, go through the bush barefeet. No shoes ` shoes was unheard of. And when we got to the gate, we got off our horses, and we were met by the teacher. And the teacher made very clear ` 'Leave your language behind, 'leave your culture behind, 'and, of course, leave your horse behind. 'You're coming here to learn English. 'And if you speak to your reo in the school grounds, 'right, you'll be strapped, and you'll be caned. 'You'll be punished.' - Dover attended the Whakarara Native School at Matauri Bay in the 1940s. - Well, if you have a look at the interpretation of native and you have a look at the way that it has been described and interpreted over the years, native has got a connotation of uncivilised ` uncivilised people, right? And that's the overtones of it. And the policy went along with that. Very clearly, there was an agenda here. - The name has changed, but the school still stands today. - The gate is still here. There's a notice there. It reminds me of the notice that used to be on the old gate that was made out of tea tree and manuka ` um, not as flash as this one. But instead of saying 'gate closed at all times', it says you're not allowed to speak Maori at all times. - There's not a lot of happy memories here for the former Labour minister, just sadness at how he and his classmates were treated. - This original photo of the buildings and the school when I went to school. There would be only one or two of us that are still alive, and they were the pioneers. They were the ones, really, that took the brunt... of the Crown's brutality upon that generation. - And he believes that removing Te Reo was all part of a wider plan to brutally colonise the country. - That was the beginning of a whole sequence of policies that attempted to disempower a Maori nation ` start from the youth, from the youngest first. - Matua, you know, even trying to contemplate strapping a 5- or a 6-year-old these days, you know, it's just not even in our understanding any more. But as a 5- or 6-year-old who was strapped for speaking te reo Maori, what was that like for you? - We actually began to accept it as the norm ` is that we were doing something wrong. Anybody, anybody will dob you in, not necessarily that the teacher can hear you speaking himself or herself, but some of us were encouraged to dob others in. We just come out and say, 'Oh, he's speaking.' Come to the front, bend over. And this cane would come out and whack. When you get a teacher, and they're very... 6ft, swinging this, and you're bending over as a young child, and you see the bruising and sometimes the blood. I mean, you couldn't get away from it. And a lot of the swings went below the shorts and landed on your legs, on the back of your legs, and the welts were very obvious, were very obvious. - For the children of Matauri Bay School today,... - I'm going to share with you a little story. - ...it's hard to imagine what it was like in the 1940s. - When we came in through that gate, we were told by the teacher, 'Do not speak Maori in this school. 'If you speak Maori, you're going to get this. This is called kareao. And when they hear you speaking Maori, 'Come out.' You bend over... and you get (IMITATES EXPLOSION). Bang. (CHILDREN GIGGLE) And with the girls too ` no difference. - In 2015, Dover Samuels made a submission to the Waitangi Tribunal on behalf of all Ngapuhi children caned at school for speaking Te Reo, asking for an apology, but none has been formally offered. - I've heard people say, 'Well, we were all naughty behind the bike shed and that.' Well, hang on. What? You didn't get brutalised and caned for speaking your reo. Now, I can sort of understand that if, in fact, you are a naughty boy and it comes under discipline. And here we are as young Maori children out of the native school, being brutalised and whipped for no other reason but speaking our reo rangatira. - You've been waiting for 70... 70-odd years for an apology. Were you hopeful that it would come? - I believe that a sincere apology and the recognition of the injustice by the Crown on what happened to that generation, to me, is not genuine and not complete if it doesn't actually understand the beginning of the journey. - Tell me about the letters that you wrote to politicians. What did you say in them, and what were you hoping for? - Well, it was remind my colleagues in the government, and especially the Maori caucus, that there was a significant claim before the Tribunal, not by me, but by their tupuna and by those who actually began the journey. - And what has the response been? - Well, the response is that I'm talking to you, Mi. - (CHUCKLES) - And I know that there's been a lot of agendas. But I want to bring the consciousness of our politicians and our representatives back to the injustice that was deliberately put into place by the Crown. But there has been no recognition. People may think that apologies are now coming so, so fast that they become throwaway apologies. I would hope that the apology that the Maori nation would get and that our tupuna and that our people who deserve... that are no longer here to be able to hear, physically, an apology. I think it should come from the throne. That's where the origins of it should begin. - Dover Samuels is now 82, a kaumatua and a warrior who has fought to protect te reo Maori, a mantle he now passes to our rangatahi. - I am inspired by this new generation and by the new consciousness awakening about the value of te reo Maori and the need to ensure that it is enshrined within our society. - You are an inspiration, Matua, because while they tried to beat Te Reo out of you, you retained your reo, you used your reo, and you became a teacher, and you've passed your reo on to so many generations now. Mihi ana ki a koe. - So, the culture, the language and who you are as a Maori must remain intrinsic in your wairua ` in your spirit ` otherwise you lose who you are. - Just to finish, Matua, I mean, what would an apology mean for you? - Without it, we don't honour those who really were the trailblazers in terms of standing up for Te Reo and, quite frankly, brutalised because that was the only offence they committed at an institution that was supposed to protect young children. This is where it began, where it will end. I'm confident that the next generation, or even this generation now, are bringing about changes that are going to be irreversible. And that is the value of te reo Maori, and that is the treasure that we have as a nation. - Ko te reo, te mauri, o te mana Maori. And in response to that story, we received this statement from Minister for Maori-Crown Relations Kelvin Davis. He said he's aware of Dover's call for an apology and acknowledges the mamae he and other children experienced. The minister says being beaten for speaking Te Reo was wrong, and it has also impacted on his own generation. He's made it a goal that every child in Aotearoa will have te reo Maori integrated into their learning by 2025, while Te Ahu o te Reo Maori is a kaupapa focusing on lifting Te Reo capability of our teachers. Outside of treaty settlements, there has only ever been a small number of formal government apologies. Any decision around this would have to be made by Cabinet. The minister says while he can't change the past, we can change the future, and he's committed to making sure the Maori language flourishes in years to come. Next ` I speak to COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins. - Auraki mai ano. Maori now make up more than 14% of infections in the current Delta outbreak, second only to Pasifika, who make up 67%. But despite the alarming figures, Maori are still lagging behind in vaccination rates. I spoke to the Minister for COVID-19 Response, Chris Hipkins. Kia tahuri ake tatou. So just before we start talking COVID, as Minister of Education, what are your thoughts around the Dover Samuels piece? Should Maori children beaten by state teachers for speaking te reo Maori ` should they receive an apology? - I think we should absolutely acknowledge that some pretty atrocious stuff happened in our education system towards Maori children in the past. The idea that they were beaten for speaking their own language in schools, and this is not the first time we've heard reports of this, is` is horrific and it is something that we should consider when we think about the future. - So, an apology? Would you go that far? I mean, I think for him, you know, he wants the government to say it out loud. He wants people to hear it. - Well, I've got no issue at all in me saying, 'Look, I acknowledge what happened, 'I acknowledge that it was wrong.' In terms of a formal Crown apology, that's not a decision that I alone take. Obviously, there's a process that we go through when we consider that, and a number of Crown apologies have been issued to Maori for things that have happened to them in the past, through the Treaty settlement process, for example. So I'd never say that we shouldn't do something like that. But in terms of what I'm doing as Minister of Education, I think one of the best things I can do is actually express our sorrow about what's happened previously by fixing it for the future. So we're putting a lot of money and a lot of support into ensuring that every young New Zealander has the opportunity to learn te reo Maori, to make sure that we've got more te reo Maori teachers in our classrooms, to make sure that even teachers who are teaching in English still actually can have some basic proficiency in te reo Maori. So there's a big focus on that at the moment. We're teaching` we're going to be teaching our own New Zealand histories in our schools so that we can all understand these things that have happened in the past. - Tena koe, e te Minita. E mihi ana ki a koe mo aua kupu. Let's talk vaccinations. So the goal is to reach a 90% vaccination rate across Aotearoa. We've got 60% of all New Zealanders have received their first jab, but just 36% of Maori have received theirs. So what's gone wrong? - Well, we've got a challenge ahead of us to make sure that we're getting our Maori vaccination rates higher. But let's acknowledge some positive things first, and the over 65 vaccination rate for Maori is very impressive. They're just shy of 90%. That's where we're aiming to get everybody, up, you know, above those kind of 90% markers. So, we're seeing really strong leadership from our older Maori, and I want to acknowledge that. We know that Maori overall age profile, though, is lower than the rest of the population. So they were typically slower coming into the vaccine programme because of the way we rolled it out by age cohorts. - When the sequencing model prioritised over 30s above younger people, shouldn't you have known that that would exclude half of all Maori? - Ultimately, we were prioritising risk first. So, who are the people who are most likely to have an adverse outcome or who are people most likely to get COVID-19 in the first place? And that was just disproportionately elderly, people who work at the border, you know, people who are working on the front lines. And so we did prioritise those groups. And you saw when we moved to Level 4, we actually shifted up that prioritisation to say our frontline workers who are out there working during Level 4 conditions should be prioritised, at that point, and we absolutely did that. And that brought a greater degree of Maori, who are working in some of those roles, into the system. - You were told early on by Maori health experts that not only are Maori young, but they're also medically vulnerable ` Maori and Pasifika ` and the sequencing, should it have been more nuanced to capture that? Because what we've seen now is that COVID actually impacts Maori and Pasifika differently to all New Zealanders. - I don't want to sort of discount the things that were happening in those early days, so a lot of money went into scaling up Maori health providers, for example. About` nearly $40 million, went into scaling up Maori health providers so that they could get out there and do more COVID-19 vaccination and push back on some of the dog whistle criticism of them. Because if you look at the numbers, they were vaccinating not just Maori, but actually a disproportionate number of non-Maori were being vaccinated at marae, and through our Maori health providers, and they've contributed enormously to the overall vaccination progress of the country. Now, I think they're an ambiguously focussed on, how do we get our vaccination rates up for Maori and I'm 100% behind them. And if they're doing new and innovative and different things, then they will have my complete support in that, because we know we we've got to do better there. - Well, Maori experts were telling you, the Te Ropu Whakauruta` Uh, Te Ropu Whakakaupapa Uruta was telling you, is it that the younger generation don't trust the government as much as non-Maori and they're going to be more difficult to reach. They're not listening to RNZ and the rest of it. They're on Tik Tok and they're on Facebook and they are down rabbit holes. So, how are you going to get them? - You know, if I take the workforce, for example, we've worked over the last six months to bring in a more diverse vax workforce, because young Maori are more likely to feel confident receiving messages from other Maori, from other young Maori, potentially, as well. And so if we can make sure that they're reflected in the workforce, again, those are the sorts of things that will help to boost confidence and therefore boost people to come forward and be vaccinated. - So we're talking about a 90% vaccination rate, and we've got voices out there calling for the borders to open and just live with COVID-19. The issue for Maori and Pasifika people, when you look at the 67% of those impacted or infected in this latest outbreak are just Pasifika alone. Should it be 90%, equity model, or is it just 90%? Because if it's not equitable and if it's not across the Maori, Pacific and other communities, vulnerable communities, then those are the people who are going to be in hospitals and die. - One of the reasons that the government has never set a formal target ` now I'm aware 90% sort of gained a bit of traction over the last week because, you know, some of the media have latched onto it, and various commentators have been arguing about whether or not that's the right number ` the reality is, we've never set a particular target because you've got to look at the nature of the unvaccinated population, when you're making decisions about the future around COVID-19, because within that, you can still have higher` Even if you end up with only 10% of people unvaccinated, you can still have high pockets of unvaccinated populations. Anywhere where, you know, there's a pocket of unvaccinated people, COVID-19 will find it, and we know that because that's the experience abroad. Looking at New South Wales, looking at Australia, they've come back to us very clearly, where they're dealing with much bigger community outbreaks than we are, And they've said COVID-19 has found the most vulnerable in our communities, and so we absolutely know that that is something that we've got to continue to work really hard to avoid. - I guess that's a juggling match of, you know, the pressure of people saying, I want to get out of lockdown and I want to open the borders versus caring for those vulnerable communities. Can you guarantee Maori that they'll get to a certain percentage or certain vaccination rate before that does happen? - What I can tell them is that we're still pursuing elimination and a zero tolerance for COVID-19, even as we start to ease off some of the restrictions that have helped to contribute to that. So as we get a higher proportion of the population who are vaccinated, that doesn't suddenly mean that we turn around and say, 'OK, let's just go back to normal. 'We'll forget this ever happened.' That's not going to happen any time soon. - So, if it's an unofficial 90% vaccination rate, what would you like to see Maori at? - My goal is to make sure that we're getting a very high vaccination rates in every potential cohort. The last thing that I want to see are pockets of unvaccinated people creating a future vulnerability, where COVID could find its way in and spread amongst them. Kia mau tonu mai ra te titiro e hoa ma ` after the break, we tackle vaccination myths. - As Aotearoa shoots for a 90% vaccination rate, there are fears too many people are falling for the misinformation they've read on social media. Although 88% of Maori aged over 65 have had their first dose of the vaccine, just 36% of Maori between 12 and 34 have had the jab, and there are concerns it's because they are getting their information from Facebook and TikTok. Kei a D'Angelo Martin tenei purongo. - Look at this. - It's videos like this one that can stop whanau from getting the COVID vaccine. - She's now a magnet. What's in our vaccines? - An experiment that's gone viral ` placing metal objects on the arm of the vaccinated. But is it even real? - Oh my God. - Firstly, there is no metal in the vaccine. There are no magnets in the vaccine. And if you think about the size of the needle pin, even if there were magnets, they'd have` they'd be so small to get through the needle that they wouldn't have enough force to hold anything. It's just trickery. - Misleading information about the COVID vaccine has spread quickly through the community, and it's targeting the vulnerable. - These videos, they just aren't true. A lot of people that have made these videos have since come out and admitted that they made them as a joke, but they went viral before they could take them down. There is a real risk with this kind of disinformation, though. It puts people's lives at risk, because then they're reluctant to get the vaccine. - And the most reluctant are Maori. Professor Sue Crengle. - At the moment, our vaccination rates are lower than non-Maori people's vaccination rates, and so that means that we have less protection from COVID. While I try to acknowledge about personal choice, it's more complex when you're looking at something like COVID, I think. And that's where the kind of public health aspects come in, where we know that COVID affects more than one person. It affects a group of people; it affects the population. - There have been cases where people have died from the vaccine. What's your take on that, and what's your response to that? - So there's definitely been one vaccine-related death that we know of in New Zealand. The... Death from the vaccination are very, very rare ` extremely rare ` and deaths from COVID are not extremely rare, especially in older people. So it's a matter of balancing up, you know, the benefits of the vaccines. - To put vaccine deaths into perspective, the American state of Mississippi has seen more than 9000 people die from COVID, but zero have died from the vaccine. It's these facts that Professor Crengle wants whanau to remember. - Lots of whanau don't necessarily trust governments, and, you know, good reason ` we've had a terrible experience of colonisation. And you know, myself and many of my doctor colleagues, we are working hard in this area, because we know that, you know, when you look at our experience in health services, that it's inequitable and unfair. And we're working very hard to try and make sure that the health system works for us. - And the biggest myth about the vaccine is that it's an experiment. - You know, when people say, 'Oh, is it safe?' I mean, the trials and stuff show it's really safe, and it's very, very effective. And, you know, the first people that got it were old, Pakeha white people, and if it wasn't safe, they wouldn't be giving it to them first. - Perhaps not known to many whanau is the anti-vax movement has now been infiltrated by the alt-right and white supremacists. They have moved from 'stop the steal' to 'stop the vaccine'. - Well, I think it suits the agenda, that it helps them attract a whole new audience who previously would not have been attracted to them. You've got to think about why they might be comfortable encouraging a group like us, like Maori, who are more at risk from COVID, why they might be comfortable encouraging them to not get vaccinated ` you know, a white supremist group. - We just need as many people as possible taking up that vaccination opportunity. - The government states that by having a fully vaccinated society, our chances of returning to normal without restrictions are greater. - The reality is is that we can't stay closed off from the world forever. Eventually, we're going to have to get to a level of vaccination where we open the border and we go back to life as normal. But for all of those people who are unvaccinated, it really puts them at risk. There have been many cases overseas where people have begged for the vaccine on their deathbed when they're dying of COVID-19, but it's too late. You need two shots to be fully protected, and you need time to make that protection. And so you can't wait until the last minute. You really need to take the opportunity to get vaccinated now before it's too late. - And what are your thoughts on the alternative medicines that have been promoted to fight off COVID? - The big worry with alternative medicines is that until medicines are tested on a large number of people with the right kind of controls, there are a lot of unknown factors. These unknown factors include ` what is the safe dose? How effective is it? Is it safe for our pregnant mums, our tamariki, our kaumatua? Does it interfere with other medications we might be on? What are the underlying health issues? What are the side effects? And so until these medicines have been really thoroughly tested with lots of people, we don't really know if they're safe. So it's a big risk, a big assumption, whereas with the vaccine, it's gone through three clinical trials. Millions of people have been vaccinated safely worldwide, and it's been shown many, many times to be safe and effective. So it really is a case of prevention is better than cure. - Na D'Angelo Martin tera purongo. Kua hikina Te Hui e hoa ma. Noho ora mai ra. Captions by Michaela Cornelius and Sally Harper Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2021 - ALL: He mea tautoko na Te Mangai Paho. - The Hui is made with support from New Zealand On Air.