Ko Mihingarangi tenei. E mihi atu nei ki a koutou katoa. Welcome to the Hui, Maori current affairs for all New Zealanders. Welcome to the Hui, Maori current E taro ake nei ` an iconic Tamaki Makaurau marae at the centre of a tug of war. - The ratepayers and residents of the North Shore gave a lot to build that marae. - We look at the ongoing battle - We look at the ongoing battle between marae management and members of the community over Awataha Marae. Then Northcote MP Shanan Halbert joins me in-studio to discuss its future. And we meet the Maori who's joined the war in Ukraine. - Every time a child dies, every time is like the first time. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2022. - Tahuti mai. For decades, a group of North Shore locals have been calling for an intervention in the standoff between them and Awataha Marae management, with no luck. A year ago, the Crown Land Commissioner renewed the 33-year lease, essentially giving the Awataha Trust another three decades of management. Those on the outside say it's unfair and the Crown has ignored their pleas. They feel excluded from something they've worked hard to establish as a marae for everyone on the North Shore. We can't tell the story of those on the inside, because they won't talk to us. We decided to revisit the story of Awataha Marae. - (TINKLY MUSIC) - Standing at attention flanking Auckland's Northern Motorway, Awataha's totem pole was meant to be a beacon for all cultures of the North Shore. But decades on, for some foundation members, it symbolises loss and heartbreak. - I don't go down. I don't know any Maori, who was involved as I was at that time, that goes near it. None of us do. It's such bad vibes. Such bad karma. - 30 years ago, Mere Roberts was full of hope and determination, which drove her and others to fundraise nearly $2 million to build a marae. - I went on to their first committee as a member, and that's where I got involved and that's where I got involved in the serious fundraising. They employed an architect Pepper Dixon Architects, and I took about a year off to take and I took about a year off to take this prototype of the marae complex around the churches. The people of the North Shore raised about $1,700,000 for that marae. Now, funding came from other sources, but it's important to note the ratepayers and residents of the North Shore gave a lot to build that marae. - But three decades on, members of that North Shore community are at loggerheads with marae management. - But three decades on, members of In 2017, The Hui reported on the division. - ARCHIVE: It's supposed to be a home away from home for the Maori of Auckland's North Shore. - It's just like they've just had the door shut on their face and that is absolutely what everyone is over. - I used to come down and just stroll in, say hi to the whanau ` those sort of things. I don't feel like I can any more. I don't feel like I'm welcome to do that. - Mere says today's situation is a far cry from how this pan-tribal, multicultural marae started its life. - During the '90s, it was really humming. We had a lot of subcommittees. We met regularly every month. Hui were held there for whatever purpose. It was open, it was functioning, it was accountable, it was transparent, and it was managed by the community. - Managed by the community and endorsed in the early days by high-ranking politicians. But over time, Mere Roberts and others became increasingly concerned with the running of their beloved marae. - Increasingly, there was a move to change the constitution a little from an incorporated society. But I think of began to fall apart in 2010. There was a move increasingly for the family to get involved. - The family Mere is referring to are the whanau of marae founders, the late Arnold Wilson and his wife, Rangitiinia. Today, Awataha is run by their son, Anthony Wilson, who is CEO. Its chair is his wife, Maria Amoamo. Public records show a series of trusts and corporations and businesses registered to Awataha Marae. Some are no longer active; others are not up to date with their filings. The Wilson whanau are at the helm of all of them, but there is just one company that appears to be running the marae's business, and that company is Awataha Marae Development. It's 65% owned by Anthony Wilson. The marae's incorporated society owns just 35%. Another business operating from the marae is Arch Angel Music, owned by the award-winning musician Kingdon Chapple-Wilson, who is Anthony's son. - This is my studio. At my marae. - According to online records, Awataha Marae Incorporated hasn't filed a financial statement since 2016. - So then the big issue was how... - Mere Roberts isn't surprised. She says she raised issues around paperwork and marae membership many years ago. - I asked, 'What is the current membership of this marae?' And there was no documentation, no record of any current membership. I said, 'Why haven't we filed an annual financial statement?' Cos I actually contacted the registrar to find out, no, they hadn't ` they hadn't for several years. no, they hadn't ` And the third thing was, um, why aren't we holding regular meetings? A Maori proverb saying 'people without a marae are nothing ` 'people without 'a marae without people is wasted.' Now, how true those words have become today! Now, how true those I won't go down. One day I will, when it's returned to the people. And I look forward to that day, cos I've seen too many of these dear friends here, cos I've seen too many of that worked so hard for that marae, being unable to even lie there for a tangi. - The issue of tangihanga is symbolic to the breakdown between the marae committee and members of this community. And that's because at the heart of this issue is the use of this wharenui for tangihanga. The committee says that they can't have tangihanga, because there are no carvings on the wharenui. But members of the community say that's because there's a push, there's an emphasis for this marae to be used as a commercial venture, rather than a community hub. The marae is hired as a conference facility and for overnight stays. Critics of marae management say hosting tangihanga may at times require the cancellation of these types of bookings ` something they believe management would be unwilling to do. And while Awataha has received tens of thousands of dollars in funding for carvings for the wharenui, it remains undressed. - They were never completed, which, again, began an investigation by North Shore City Council. But the tikanga seemed to be until that wharenui was completed, you couldn't hold tangi. But the tikanga seemed to be until Some say that was a kaupapa of Arnold, But the tikanga seemed to be until a Tuhoe kaupapa, cos Arnold was Tuhoe. Others didn't hold to that, but that was the situation. - There are various iwi who claim mana whenua status on Auckland's North Shore ` - There are various iwi who claim mana whenua status on Auckland's Tuhoe is not one of them. Ngati Paoa, Ngati Whatua and Te Kawerau a Maki have pou on the boundary of the property, Ngati Paoa, Ngati Whatua and signifying their connection to the land. But none of these iwi are able to utilise the marae, as it's held by the Crown for the community. And for locals, it's meant holding tangi in garages and tents. Former Te Whanau O Awataha Trust Board member Andi Peters. - I also wondered, myself, about the use of the marae, as far as tangi goes, because we were getting a lot of enquiries ` can we take our tupapaku there? And I found out that they'd only had one tangi there, and I was wondering, 'Well, what is the purpose of that marae?' - Do you think that people from the community should be able to use it for a tangi? - (SIGHS) The way I was brought up, the marae was there for the community ` everyone's use. As time went on, I started to realise, yeah, well, it's not exactly that. Yeah. - Andy Peters resigned from Te Whanau O Awataha Trust in 2018, due to poor health. Did you ask why the marae wasn't able to be used by whanau? Did you ask why the marae - Well, we'd already made some enquiries about it ` you know, why, and found out that why they hadn't used the wharenui for tangi was that the carvings were not complete. And that sort of made me wonder, well, what's the hold-up? I believe there was money made available. There had been approaches made to Paremoremo, for the inmates to do the, uh, carvings and things like that. And it just makes you wonder ` why? Why? You know, the offers were there. - For the past six weeks, The Hui has been liaising with Awataha Marae's chairperson, Maria Amoamo, in the hope of discussing these issues. Two weeks ago, Ms Amoamo agreed to allow an interview with a selection of marae trustees. We were hoping to record those interviews today, but this is as close as we can get to Awataha Marae. Because at 1 o'clock this morning, we received an email from Ms Amoamo, citing a lack of trust in our reporting and warning us not to enter the marae. She also added, 'Don't put your drone up in our air space, 'don't ignore the private property notices at the front, 'and don't break the law.' Despite ongoing issues at the marae, including rate arrears and strong opposition from mana whenua and members of the North Shore community, in 2020, Crown Land, Toitu Te Whenua, Land Information New Zealand, agreed to renew Awataha's lease for a further 33 years. agreed to renew Awataha's That decision is now being reviewed. - Awataha currently is a failed entity. We won't go there until it's returned back to the people to run it. - Kia mohio koutou he uri ahau no Ngati Paoa. The decision to review the lease for Awataha Marae by Land Information New Zealand is due in September. Allegations have been made, and the report directed at marae management. They include alleged illegal subleases to outside groups, unlawful construction, membership breaches and rate arrears, which are disputed by the marae. unlawful construction, membership While the commissioner addresses some of them in his report, he says it's not within his powers to address the others. Awataha Marae management told The Hui our interpretation of the commissioner's report was not entirely accurate and Ms Amoamo would provide further details, which have not been forthcoming. We hope to speak to marae management in the future ` the invitation to speak is open. After the break ` Northcote MP Shanan Halbert joins me to discuss a way forward. Auraki mai ano. To discuss the future of Awataha Marae, I'm joined by its local MP, Shanan Halbert. - Tena koe. - BOTH: Kia ora. - So, you've had discussions with marae management, and I wondered if you could share some of their perspectives. - I guess what's important here, Mihi, is my role as the local MP is to is my role as the local MP is to work with all Maori and all of our community. With that, I've met frequently with Awataha Marae ` very clear on what needs to be done to make the marae accessible; the ablutions need to be upgraded, the whakairo need to go up, the dining room needs an upgrade. So what we've seen is a overall development plan for the 3.8 hectares of land. Um, the vision is big, but the starting point is at the marae and ensuring that the wharenui is up and running to meet the needs of all of our community. And that's what I'm committed to as a local MP. - Yeah, I guess, when you look at that story, and you'll be well aware of, you know, the concerns of some people, and how do you kind of wade through that? - You must feel like you're in the middle a wee bit. - Sometimes I do. - You must feel like you're What's important here is ` when we think of the tug of war ` is a tug of war actually serves nobody and certainly doesn't serve our community. What I've been focussed on and what we've seen in the last few months is an acceleration of steps to get things moving. The Land Commissioner has met with all parties. We'll see a review that has been conducted. The outcome will be in September. I've taken in the Minister for Maori Development to hear directly firsthand from Awataha Marae about their vision. He's offered support there, and we've also asked for a couple of things ` what is the community engagement plan, and what is the plan for the development of that wharenui. My view, Mihi, is that within 12 months, if we can all work together as a community, we can have that wharenui up and running within 12 months. - And so, has the Minister for Maori Development also met with the community? - So, we went across the way to Te Puna Hauora, - So, we went across the which is on that site as well. But we're in a process of meeting with all Maori stakeholders on the shore. We've got to ensure that we set up a marae ` again, 3.8 hectares of land ` that is able to serve all of our North Shore community. And at the moment, there's some things being done ` we know that there's work to do, and my job is to support that to happen. - So, some of the greatest issues, cos that's all fantastic, to have a plan, and, you know, 12 months, I think people will be really happy I think people will be really happy to hear that the whakairo are gonna go up. And as the commissioner says, the deed actually says that it has to provide traditional Maori marae activities, and tangihanga at the centre of that and mourners staying over and those kinds of things. But you've got this issue where the community feels, um, shut out, because they've applied to get on the society or in the incorporations and haven't been allowed. How are you going to fix that, and is it your job? - Sure, it's my job to facilitate a way forward. And so there are decades of challenges. You know, there's raru there that have been around well before my time. But I guess what I can do is, um, and what I've done is, engaged Te Puni Kokiri to assistant in Oranga Marae, which establishes a plan to engage with our community, to ensure that they're able to feel part of it, that we establish a strong governance for that marae moving forward, and that we're able to see the full potential of Awataha Marae for all of us. And I think we can be bold in the vision for that. - A strong governance is a democratic one, though, so that will be at the basis of your facilitation? - I agree ` I'm not the facilitator here, but sure, absolutely, those steps need to be taken. We've got to establish a marae that is for everyone. At the moment, yes, people are using that particular facility, but we have a greater vision for that too. - And when you look at the Land Commissioner's report, he says that he can hear the frustration of some groups of people, he says that he can hear the and he said even if I agreed that tangi should be held there, this is not my place, you know, to make a decision on. And I think, well, he actually has all the powers to do so, but he's unable to, because it's tikanga Maori. Perhaps this job should be shifted to TPK ` should it be, like, a co-decision that's made, somebody who can understand tikanga and decide? - Yeah. What I've asked for, Mihi, is all hands on deck ` we need everyone to be a part of a way forward for Awataha. What the review will do is to determine the way forward, What the review will do is and the lease is a part of that. We've got to ensure that from September, when we receive that review and that outcome, that, um, that facility is set up, um, to be successful, to bring everyone together, particularly to bring resources to the table, to upgrade the marae to a standard that meets code, that meets the number of people wanting to use it, but also is able to set us up for the future, where we are able to expand on Whanau Ora, where we are able to on matauranga education, on, um, the housing aspirations that we have for that whenua. - Mere Robertson in that story talked about funding that had been provided for the whakairo, from the North Shore City Council and other groups. What is the status of those carvings? - So, the carvings are still there, I understand. But what's important is that we are able to get those completed, get those whakairo up and get that wharenui operational, for things like tangihanga, for our whanau to hui in, for groups to come together. That is the role of Awataha, moving forward. But we need to be bolder in that vision. We've got to come together again. A tug of war is not achieving the desired outcome, that we all want to achieve. And as the local MP, I'm really committed to ensure that we have a future marae, that is available for all of our community. - What's your message to the local community there that have, you know, been involved in this marae? - I think it's time to acknowledge the past and that there's hurt and grievance there. But all parties, no matter who we are, need to now come together. We need to hui. We need to work out what we can all contribute to the future of this marae and that we can do it together. - Time frame? - I've set a time frame, that I'd love to see that wharenui up and running within 12 months. But over the next five years, I think that we can develop Awataha Marae, and the way that we all want to see it. We look to examples like Mahurehure, Ruapotaka ` that's the vision that I have for our marae. - Tena koe. - Kia ora. - Kia mau tonu mai ra ` after the break, we meet the Maori helping defend Ukraine. - When Kane Te Tai got a call from his military mates, asking if he would go and support them in war-torn Ukraine, the 37-year-old didn't think twice ` the former soldier sold his possessions to raise cash and headed off to volunteer. From helping train Ukrainian soldiers on the front line to teaching civilians how to evacuate their townships, Te Tai is risking his personal safety to support the cause. E korero a Ruwani Perera ki a ia. You've been there since April. Can you tell me a little bit about the task force that you worked with when you first got there? - Yes, so, I worked with a task force and staff - Yes, so, I worked with helping young women and... children who had been trafficked. They just get off a train, and then they get ferried on to whatever bus they can get on. But unfortunately, there's a lot of people that, sort of, inject them selves there, and they're, like, 'Oh, no, hey, you can jump in this car ` 'it's better than jumping in the stuffy bus.' And then before they know it, they're inside some van, heading off, you know, God knows where. - How young are we talking about, some of these girls? - Anything, children ` like, when I say children, like, you know, 12 or up. You can make more money out of ` you know, the younger they are, the more money you can make out of them. And we just, sort of, watch over them, and we make sure that nothing happens to the person at the start. And then if we can, we try to directly intervene as well. While the country is up in upheaval, while the authorities, while the military is too busy trying to fight a war, it is the perfect time for it to happen. - How does it compare, Kane, to some of the missions you've done in Afghanistan and Africa? - The sole difference here is that - The sole difference here is that you're not working, a lot of the time, with, you know, like-minded professionals. A lot of these guys, they've been basically plucked out of their lives. You know, you're operating with basically plucked out of their lives. You know, you're operating with a guy who's a 59-year-old music teacher, and one of the interpreters goes, 'That guy was my music teacher at school.' So you're not working with the same guys with the same training ` you know, it's a very dire situation. It's sort of like a community that's been torn in half ` you've got a lot of Ukrainians that really believe in Ukraine, and they just wanna see the war done. you've got a lot of Ukrainians that And then you've got all these other people that almost, can almost be part of the village or the town that you're working that actually want Russia to win. And then, a lot of times, the Ukrainian Defence Force will tell you, 'There's a lot of sympathisers in this place here.' So at the moment, it's just about security; it's about trying to find these people that are collaborating and just, sort of, it's about trying to find these being able to either isolate them, imprison them, or, you know, sort of, keep away from them for the better part of things. So security is the biggest thing that they're lacking at the moment, and then second after that would be and then second after that would be clean water. That was before the war as well. So, you know, and shelter ` it's coming up to... It's gonna be winter, you know, sort of, in a couple of months. And Ukrainian winters are terrible. So people with, you know, big gaping holes in the rooves and stuff like that ` it just gonna be, yeah, ridiculous. - Have you had any close calls, Kane? - I'm used to having bombs dropped - I'm used to having bombs dropped quite close to me in other places, like, in the Donetsk region ` you know, where you're actively, like, 'Oh, this can happen, because I'm in an active warzone.' you know, where you're actively, like, 'Oh, this can happen, because So, about 4.30 in the morning, I just woke up to the whole place kicking like a mule. Well, that was close. Loud as well. And then I heard all of the shrapnel hitting the roof and stuff, and I was, like, 'OK, that was really close.' In the morning when I woke up, I had a look out the window, and it's literally just this big crater outside by, the park. And there she is ` just an ugly hole. Good job, Russia (!) I need to wake up at 4.30 anyway. So thanks for the, uh, wake-up call. Then you go back to places in the central Ukraine, and there's just nothing going on. You just think, 'Wow, I mean, I know there's a war going on here.' - You know, looking at your Instagram, you seem to be embraced by the tangata whenua there. What similarities have you noticed between Maori and Ukrainians? - Their warrior spirit. They're much like someone who grew up that didn't wanna be Maori, and they're now trying to rediscover it, because they were a part of the Soviet Union that, you know, ceased to be a thing, you know, in the '90s, and they've just been trying to recapture what makes them Ukrainian. They're starting to look at a lot of things and a lot of old customs and a lot of old songs, and they're try to bring that back to identify themselves as being Ukrainian and not being Russian. I like them and love 'em enough to still be here, despite a lot of stuff that's going on, and Ukraine has captured my heart. So, yeah. - BOTH: # Hey-Hey! Rozveselymo! - You found a way to connect with them through waiata? - Yeah. I find one of the best you know, their waiata. One day, you know, I think a bunch of soldiers were singing it, and I was, like, 'I know the song' and start singing as well, and they were, like, 'Hey, you know the song!' I was, like, 'Yeah, man.' And so it's always a good way to bridge the gap. - So, they say around 17 million people have been displaced so far. Is there a feeling of hopelessness in the people that you meet? - When I first got to the country, there was a lot of people that were trying to exit the country, like, for miles, 12km-long lines, and then, now the lines are backwards ` there's more people trying to get back in than they are trying to leave. There is a lot of hope here, but there's a lot of tiredness as well. - I mean, Kane, would it be fair to say that in the short time you've been over there, you've made some lifelong memories? - Lifelong memories and lifelong friends. Yeah, there's obviously something to be said about, I guess, meeting people in strange places and doing strange things. I've met three girls, who ranged between the ages of 25 and 35, and they've basically just been operating this thing by themself, a house by themselves, where they just take in children that are displaced from all over the place. These are women that have been doing this since they were, like, children themselves. And for me, I'm just, like, 'Wow, you know, why would you not wanna be friends with people? And for me, I'm just, like, 'Wow, 'Why would you not wanna try and soak up as much of their energy?' You know, these guys are the real heroes. These are the guys that, they haven't just been doing this for a couple of months ` they've been doing this for years. So many stories here, but there's a lot of strength here as well. - What's the saddest thing you've seen so far? - Children ` like, a kid dying. You know, every time a child dies, it's first ` you know, every time is like the first time. It's something really hard to sort of, you know, be able to reconcile in your own brain. Sometimes I just, sort of, pass kids in a lot of places, and I just think to myself, 'Man, like, live your life, ride that bike, because, 'you know, come tomorrow, you might 'you know, come tomorrow, you might be running for your life or you might just not have one any more.' - Your mental health is quite paramount as well, Kane, you know ` how do you keep stable and look after yourself? - I have my body armour and my helmet, um, and I have a weapon, you know, by my bedside. Because I don't know whether, you know, some Russian collaborator has gone and told someone that I'm living here. So you're always sort of on the edge. Yeah, that all takes a toll. - So you haven't given yourself any time constraints as to how long you'll be there for ` is it just as long as you're needed? - Yeah. You have to really know yourself, being in a place like this and operating the way I do. Most of the time, I'm by myself or I'm only with one other person in this whole country. It's how long mentally I can, sort of, keep this up for, It's how long mentally I can, but also, um, It's how long mentally I can, for as long as I'm effective. I just know that my heart will be very heavy when I come back from this place. - Kia haumaru to noho, e hoa. Ko Kane Te Tai tera. Kua hikina Te Hui, e hoa ma. Noho ora mai, ra. Captions by Faith Hamblyn. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2022.