TENA TATOU KATOA. I'M REBECCA WRIGHT. WELCOME TO NEWSHUB NATION. ON THE PROGRAMME THIS WEEK ` UNTESTED POLICE MINISTER GINNY ANDERSEN LIVE IN STUDIO. WINSTON PETERS JOINS US FRESH FROM HIS POLARISING STATE-OF-THE-NATION SPEECH. WE CROSS LIVE TO ALBERT PARK AHEAD OF ANTI-TRANS ACTIVIST POSIE PARKER'S ADDRESS. PLUS, MP JAN LOGIE AND DANCER LAURA PHILIPS JOIN US TO DISCUSS EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS FOR STRIP CLUB WORKERS. CAPTIONS BY MAEVE KELLY AND KRISTIN WILLIAMS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 FIRST IN THE PROGRAMME TODAY ` SHE'S A RELATIVELY UNKNOWN POLITICIAN TAKING ON A TOUGH AND HIGH-PROFILE PORTFOLIO AND AT A TIME WHEN POLICE ARE GRAPPLING WITH SOME ESPECIALLY GRITTY PROBLEMS. NEW POLICE MINISTER GINNY ANDERSEN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME. WHY DID YOU PUT YOUR HAND UP FOR THIS? THANK YOU. I WANTED THIS JOB FOR A LONG TIME. I HAVE WORKED IN POLICE AND AN PASSIONATE ABOUT MAKING NEW ZEALAND SAFER. YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOUR PRIORITIES ARE COMMUNITY SAFETY AND RETAIL CRIME, BUT THAT SOUNDS LIKE PARENTING OF LABOUR POLICY. WHAT IMPACT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU WANT TO HAVE? TWO MAKE COMMUNITIES SAFER, THERE ARE THREE MAIN AREAS. THE FIRST IS BACKING THE POLICE. BUT THIS IS LABOUR PARTY POLICY. I AM ASKING ABOUT YOU PERSONALLY. THE TWO AREAS I WANT TO SEE A REAL IMPROVEMENT ON IS RETAIL CRIME, TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES, WITH MY SMALL BUSINESS HAT ON, ARE FEELING SAFE AND HAVE THE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE THAT THEY NEED. WE HAVE SEEN THAT TRACK DOWN SINCE AUGUST LAST YEAR, THAT I WANT TO DRIVE IT FURTHER AND SEE FURTHER CHANGES. IN THAT VEIN, I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THE GOOD WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE ON CRACKING DOWN ON CRIMINAL NETWORKS. WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO GANGS? THEY NEED TO KNOW THEY CANNOT PROFIT FROM PEDDLING MYTH. WE HAVE GOT MORE FRONTLINE OFFICERS THAN EVER, AND VERY SUCCESSFUL OPERATIONS THAT HAVE SPECIFICALLY FOCUSED ON CRACKING DOWN ON GANGS. BUT MYTH USES UP. METHAMPHETAMINE AS A HARMFUL JUG THAT DESTROYS LIVES, AND WE WILL HAVE MORE FRONTLINE OFFICERS ESPECIALLY FOCUSED ON IT. BUT METH USE IS UP. I HAVE MENTIONED OPERATIONS SUCH AS COBALT, WHICH HAVE HAD RECORD NUMBERS OF WEAPONS SEIZED, DRUGS SEIZED AND ARRESTS. BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT THOSE ARE EFFECTIVE IN FIXING THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE METHAMPHETAMINE USE IS UP. IT IS A DEFINITE PROBLEM, AN AREA I HAVE WORKED ON UNDER THE PREVIOUS NATIONAL GOVERNMENT. I AM FAMILIAR WITH HOW COMPLEXITIES FOR NEW ZEALAND. THE FACT THAT METHAMPHETAMINE USE IS UP DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT WE WILL CONTINUE TO TRY AND DISMANTLE AND TACKLE ORGANISED CRIME. HOW WILL YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY? WE WILL CONTINUE TO PUT MORE RESOURCES INTO THE FRONTLINE. WE HAVE NOT HAD THAT IN THE PAST. SO WITH N ADDITIONAL 1800 OFFICERS AND 700 OF THOSE SPECIFICALLY FOCUSED ON ORGANISED CRIME, WE WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE A FOCUS IN THAT AREA. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT RETAIL CRIME. I KNOW THAT THAT IS A FOCUS FOR YOU. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION THERE? DO YOU THINK WAS TO MUG YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOG CANNONS AND MEASURES THAT SHOP OWNERS CAN TAKE, BUT WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO? I WAS IN WEST AUCKLAND YESTERDAY WITH THE AREA COMMANDER AND THE UNIT FOCUSED ON REDUCING RETAIL CRIME, SO IT WAS REALLY GOOD TO MEET SHOP OWNERS IN PERSON AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR CONCERNS ARE. AS I HAVE SAID, IT IS GOOD WE ARE SEEING THOSE NUMBERS OF RAM RAIDS TRACK DOWN SINCE AUGUST, BUT THE TWO SPECIFIC SCHEMES, ONE LED BY POLICE AND ONE BY MBIE THAT WILL PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SAFETY MEASURES FOR THOSE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. THAT IS DEFENSIVE, REACTOR. IT IS NOT AT THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM, YOUTH CRIME, GETTING TO THE YOUTHS WHO ARE OUT THERE COMMITTING CRIME. YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT. YOUTH CRIME IS A COMPLEX ISSUE, AND THOSE DRIVERS OF CRIME SUCH AS FAMILY VIOLENCE AND MENTAL HEALTH ARE DIFFICULT AND COMPLEX AREAS. WE HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD PROGRAMS IN AUCKLAND. KOTAHI HE WHAKAARO HAS BEEN PUT INTO COUNTIES MANUKAU AND IS SHOWING REALLY GOOD STATISTICS IN THAT TIN TO 14 AGE GROUP. BUT YOUTH CRIME IS UP THERE. THIS DEBT OUT THIS WEEK SHOW IT IS SIMILAR TO PRE-COVID LEVELS. PROGRAMS LIKE THAT HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB AT A JUICING RECIDIVISM. IT IS OFTEN SAID BY THE GOVERNMENT THAT YOUTH CRIME IS TRENDING DOWN, AND I WONDER WITH THAT IS TRUE. MANY OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT DOING THESE RAM RAIDS AND CRIME AT NIGHT, THEY NEVER REACH THE COURT SYSTEM, AND THE YOUTH CRIME FIGURES ARE ONLY COUNTING PROSECUTION, SO DO WE EVEN HAVE A TRUE IDEA OF THE LEVEL OF YOUTH CRIME IF WE ARE NOT COUNTING THAT? FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND AND THE INFORMATION I HAVE RECEIVED, A YOUTH AID OFFICER WILL ALWAYS BE BROUGHT WHEN THERE HAS BEEN A OFFENCE, PATHWAY FORWARD DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT THE STATS DON'T REFLECT THAT. HOW DO WE REALLY KNOW THE LEVEL OF YOUTH CRIME WE ARE ONLY COUNTING PROSECUTIONS? PRESUMABLY THERE ARE A LARGE COHORT THAT NEVER REACH COURT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE NEW ZEALANDERS FEEL SAFE, AND PART OF THAT IS ADDRESSING THE UNDERLYING DRIVERS OF CRIME, AND FAMILY VIOLENCE IS A KEY AREA SPECIFIC TO YOUTH CRIME. BUT I AM ASKING YOU HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT THE ACTUAL COMPLETE PICTURE IS IF WE ARE NOT COUNTING THOSE KIDS? FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, WE HAVE GOOD FIGURES UNDERSTANDING THE LEVEL OF OFFENDING. WHAT ARE THE FIGURES? I DON'T HAVE THEM IN FRONT OF ME. I HAVE SEEN FROM THAT JUSTICE FIGURES RELEASED THIS WEEK THAT THE LEVELS OF CRIME ACROSS A NUMBER OF AREAS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE WERE SEEING BEFORE THE PANDEMIC. THAT THOSE CHILDREN ARE NEVER COUNTED, NEVER REACH THE SYSTEM, SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW GOOD IT IS BECAUSE MANY OF THOSE CHILDREN NEVER GO THROUGH COURT. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, WHEN AN OFFICER IS CALLED OUT TO A SPECIFIC INCIDENT AND A YOUNG PERSON IS REFERRED TO YOUTH JUSTICE, THE NEXT STEP OF THAT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY A FAMILY GROUP CONFERENCE, SO THAT WOULD BE RECORDED AS AN INSTANCE WITHIN THE YOUTH COURT. SO DOES THAT COUNT EVERY CHILD? TO BE` WHEN THE POLICE ARE BEING CALLED OUT TO AN INCIDENT WE ARE YOUNG PERSON HAS BROKEN THE LAW OR BEEN CHARGED WITH AN INCIDENT, POLICE WILL HAVE INFORMATION. SO THERE ARE POLICE STATISTICS HAVE BEEN INTERESTING IN THE PAST, SO WE HAVE TIER 1 OFFENCES, WHICH IS A CODE FOR EXAMPLE, AGGRAVATED ROBBERY WILL BE CODED. WE ARE STILL ABLE TO ACHIEVE THAT INFORMATION. PERSONALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A BIT MORE ACCURACY FROM POLICE IN THAT SPACE. CHRIS HIPKINS TOLD ME THERE IS A HARD TO REACH GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE BEHIND THESE RAM RAIDS AND THE SPIKE IN YOUTH CRIME THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON. WHO ARE THEY? I HAVE SEEN THEM IN MY OWN AREA AND DEALT WITH INSTANCES LOCALLY OUTSIDE THE MALL AND THE BUS TERMINAL. THEY ARE A SMALL NUMBER OF HIGH-RISK CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME FROM VERY COMPLEX BACKGROUNDS. HOW MANY? IN SOME OF THE FIGURES I HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST SHORT TIME, WE ARE LOOKING AT ABOUT 80 WHO ARE HIGH RISK REPEAT OFFENDERS. SO THEY ARE CAUSING A LOT OF TROUBLE? THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IN THOSE INSTANCES, LIKE IN THE LOWER HUTT, THERE MIGHT BE ONE OR TWO AND IS AS MUCH THEY GET A LOT OF ONLOOKERS PEOPLE USING SOCIAL MEDIA, SO THEY HAVE A HUB OF OTHERS COMING AROUND THEM. GOES ON THE OUTSIDES MIGHT NOT BE OFFENDERS, MIGHT NOT BE PARTICIPATING, BUT THEY ARE STILL COMING ALONG TO BE LED BY THOSE INDIVIDUALS. SO AROUND 80 KIDS AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO ARE AT THE HEART OF THE MAYHEM, AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO FIND THEM? PREVIOUS MINISTERS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THEM, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT AS PART OF THE PROBLEM. SURELY, 80 KIDS WE COULD FIND AND RE-ENGAGE THEM. PROGRAMS SUCH AS` BUT THEY ARE NOT IN THAT PROGRAMME. THEY ARE RIGHT ACROSS PROGRAM. MANY OF THOSE CHILDREN'S HAVE BEEN REFERRED TO PROGRAMS SUCH AS THAT. THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF SETTING UP THAT PROGRAM ` PARTICULARLY TO TARGET THAT YOUNGER COHORT THAT WERE NOT COMING FORWARD. SO HOW MANY ARE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW? I COULD ASK ANY GIVEN DISTRICT. DISTRICTS ARE WELL AWARE, AND WHEN I VISITED HENDERSON YESTERDAY, THEY HAD A GOOD UNDERSTANDING WHEN I SPOKE TO THOSE YOUTH AID OFFICERS OF THE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS THEY WERE WATCHING. SO HOW DO YOU RE-ENGAGE THE CHILDREN? YOU WORK WITH THE ENTIRE FAMILY. IT IS NOT JUST POLICE. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO GRAPPLING WITH THESE CHALLENGES. WE WILL BE WORKING WITH A RANGE OF OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THE FAMILY THAT CHILD COMES FROM HAS A WRAPAROUND SUPPORT PLAN. THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO. GINNY ANDERSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING. WE'LL BE BACK SOON WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL, MIKE WILLIAMS, JO MOIR AND FRAN O'SULLIVAN. BUT FIRST, AFTER THE BREAK ` IT MUST BE ELECTION YEAR ` HOKI MAI ANO. AND ` COULD HE BE BACK? IN PARLIAMENT, THAT IS? NEW ZEALAND FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS DELIVERED A STATE-OF-THE-NATION SPEECH THIS WEEK WHERE HE RAILED AGAINST A 'CONCEITED, CONNIVING CULTURAL CABAL'. WINSTON PETERS JOINS ME NOW. TENA KOE. WELCOME TO THE STUDIO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. FROM WHAT I TOOK FROM YOUR SPEECH YESTERDAY IS THAT IT IS A WAR ON I WANTED THIS JOB FOR A LONG TIME. I HAVE WORKED IN POLICE WOKE. IT IS BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE SEEN SADLY IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE BEING THE VICTIMS OF IT AS A FULL-SCALE ATTACK ON WESTERN VALUES. WE HAVE DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM AND THAT IS WHY MANY PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE HERE. BUT THERE IS A FULL-SCALE ATTACK. WE HAVE TO DEFEND OURSELVES AND TURN THAT AROUND. WE HAVE TO WIN THIS BATTLE BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WILL NEVER RECOGNISE THE INHERITANCE OUR PARENTS GAVE US. YOU TALKED ABOUT AN APOCALYPTIC TONE, A GRIM PICTURE, GROWING OVER REACH BY THE LEFT AND THE NATURE OF PROGRESS OVER OUR VALUES. IT FEELS VERY MUCH LIKE CULTURE WAR POLITICS. THEY HAVE DECLARED THE WAR, AND THEY WILL NOT WIN IT. WHO IS THEY? PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CONSULTING WITH PARENTS OR THE POPULATION AT THE. TA TAX PAYING HAD EARNED MONEY` WHO IS DAY? YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE. THEY ARE SAYING WE ARE A COLONISED COUNTRY AND WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION AND HAVE TWO TYPES OF GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTRY AND THAT IS WHAT PARTNERSHIP MEANS. THEY ARGUE THAT THE TREATY WAS ABOUT PARTNERSHIP WHEN IT WAS NOT. THEY ARGUED THAT THAT MAORI DID NOT CEDE SOVEREIGNTY. CAN YOU NAME ONE OF THESE ELITIST WOKE INDIVIDUALS? I WILL BE HERE FOR THE NEXT DAY. JUST ONE. I JUST WANT ONE. CAN I ASK YOU THIS ` WHY DO I HOP ON AIR NEW ZEALAND MP TOLD THAT I'M IN A WAKA IN THE SKY? WHY AM I GOING TO HOSPITALS WHERE EVERYTHING IN MAORI IS BIG, AND 5% OF THE POPULATION UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE BUT 95% DON'T. IS THIS JUST FANNING XENOPHOBIA? IF YOU THINK TELLING PEOPLE THE TRUTH AND TAKING OVER OUR CULTURE AND HERITAGE AS XENOPHOBIA, YOU HAVE A BAD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE WORD PHOBIA MEANS. AS YOU POINTED OUT, WE HAVE VERY BIG ISSUES FACING OUR COUNTRY. YOU SAID THAT HEALTH IS THE NUMBER ONE CRISIS. THE ONLY CONCRETE HEALTH IDEA THAT I COULD SEE IN YOUR SPEECH YESTERDAY WAS TO RENAME TE WHATU ORA. THAT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO PEOPLE ON WAITING LISTS. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE ASKED THAT QUESTION THAT WAY. THIS IS THE FIRST OF HUNDREDS OF SPEECHES AROUND THIS COUNTRY. YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME TO SAY SO MANY THINGS. I HAVE SAID WHAT WE WILL FOCUS ON IN THE COMING MONTHS OF THIS CAMPAIGN. IM SAYING FIRST OF ALL, ATTEND TO HEALTH BECAUSE IN HEALTH, WHEREAS WITH OTHER THINGS THAT YOU CAN FIX OVER TIME, IN HEALTH, PEOPLE DIE. I AM SAYING THAT THE NUMBER-one PART OF OUR POLICY IS THAT THIS IS YOUR BIGGEST CRISIS. AND SO, YOU ARE RENAMING` RENAMING IS NOT GOING TO STOP PEOPLE DYING PEOPLE WAITING FOR TREATMENT. WHY BOTHER WITH THE ENERGY ON THEM? WHY NOT GET STRAIGHT TO THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM? WHY BOTHER WITH A NAME THAT 95% OF THE COUNTRY DOESN'T UNDERSTAND? THIS IS ONE OF THE PITFALLS OF CULTURAL WAR POLITICS IS THAT YOU CAN SPEND A LOT OF ENERGY CHANGING NAMES AND VIRTUE SIGNALLING IN REVERSE BUT ACTUALLY IT DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING FOR ANYBODY. WHY NOT ATTACK THE BIG PROBLEMS? WE ARE GOING TO. WHEN? I COULDN'T RUN THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN IN ONE HOUR IN HOWICK IN FRONT OF 400 PEOPLE, COULD I? IT'S NOT A CULTURAL WAR. WE ARE STOPPING PEOPLE ELITIST AND UNDEMOCRATICALLY TAKING OVER FROM THE MAJORITY WHO DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY SAY. PEOPLE ARE REBUILDING THEIR LIVES. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE A DEFENDER OF THESE WOKE, SILLY NAMES. I HAVE COME IN FOR A SERIOUS DISCUSSION. . A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THAT HAD PEOPLE IN THE AISLES KNOWING THAT IM A DEFENDER OF THE THINGS THAT THEY STAND FOR. IM ASKING YOU ABOUT REAL-WORLD` THIS IS REAL-WORLD, AND REAL-WORLD IS THIS ` THINGS LIKE GABRIELLE AND RECOVERING FROM THE DISASTER. WE ARE GETTING BACK TO THE REAL FUNDAMENTALS OF NEW ZEALANDERS. THEY WANT OUR HEALTH SYSTEM TO WORK PROPERLY FOR THEM. THEY WANT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM TO TAKE PEOPLE AS FAR AS THEY CAN GO. THEY WANT HOUSES THEY CAN AFFORD. YOU ARE NOT TELLING PEOPLE HOW YOU ACHIEVE THINGS IN OFFICE. YOU WANT ME TO UNVEIL THE WHOLE MANIFESTO WHEN THERE ARE SIX MONTHS TO GO. WE HAVE SEEN AN EDUCATION POLICY FROM NATIONAL THIS WEEK. WE HAVE SEEN A COST OF LIVING POLICY FROM THE GOVERNMENT. OTHER PARTIES ARE PUTTING THEIR POLICIES OUT. WHY NOT YOU? IM. CHANGING THE NAMES OF THINGS. A POLICY IS SIX MONTHS MINIMUM IN PRISON FOR PEOPLE WHO ATTACK FIRST RESPONDERS. THAT'S A POLICY. IT'S NOT A NEW POLICY. IT IS. WE HAVE LOOKED AT THE ACT. WE HAVE GOT TO GET ON TOP OF THIS BECAUSE THIS IS GOING ON, AND EVERY TIME YOU SEE THAT ON TV. I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS THE MAORI PEOPLE ARE SHAMED BY IT. THEY WON'T SAY IT, BUT THEY ARE SHAMED BY IT. WE DON'T WANT THAT CHARACTERISATION OWING FORWARD. HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL YOU PUT IN PRISON FOR ASSAULTING FIRST RESPONDERS? IT COULD BE QUITE A FEW. THE POLICE MINISTER INTERVIEW WAS A CONFUSING INTERVIEW THAT YOU HAD RIGHT NOW. YOU DON'T HAVE TO REFER TO OTHER INTERVIEWERS. EXCUSE ME. YOU WILL GET AN ANSWER. 406 TO 5% IS HOW MUCH THE RAM RAIDS WIN UP TO LAST YEAR. THOSE FIGURES WERE PART OF MY SPEECH YESTERDAY. IT'S NOT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN PRISON. WE HAVE A CATCH AND RELEASE POLICY AT THE MOMENT. THEY ARE GRABBING PEOPLE, AND LETTING THEM GO. I'M ASKING HOW MANY. CAN I DESCRIBE WHY WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE THINGS? THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON WHO SHOULD NOT BE THERE. IT IS A WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY. THE YOU WANT TO TAKE WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINALS OUT OF PRISON AND` NO. WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY DOING SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A THREAT TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE CRIME. YOUR PARTY VOTE WAS DECIMATED IN 2020. GUESS WHY? GUESS WHY? GUESS WHY? WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE? GUESS WHY? PEOP IN APRIL 2020 AND ATTACK WAS LAUNCHED ON US. BUT YOU WENT ALONG AND BELIEVE THEM. (CHUCKLES) I WAS NOT IN THE COUNTRY IN 2020. BUT YOUR PROGRAM AND MEDIA CHANNEL DATED. WAS IT A WITCHHUNT? WE COULDN'T CAMPAIGN AT ALL. THAT WAS A FLUKE ELECTION. BUT THIS IS 2023. THIS IS DIFFERENT. YOU ALSO SAID YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE COUNTRY BACK. WHO FROM? FROM THOSE PEOPLE WHO IS SEEKING TO CHANGE IT WITHOUT ANY AUTHORITY MANDATE AND TRYING TO DO IT BEHIND YOUR BACK. THE GOVERNMENT HAS A STRONG MANDATE RIGHT NOW. REALLY? FOR WHAT? I HAVE A MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT. I'M NOT SURE YOU CAN GET A GREATER MANDATE. DID THEY HAVE A MANDATE FOR LIGHT RAIL? NO. DID THEY HAVE A MANDATE FOR CAPITAL GAINS TAX? NO. GUESS WHY? WE OTHER HANDBRAKE WHO STOPPED THEM. YOU WITH THE PERSON WHO PUT THEM THERE, ALL THE WAY BACK IN 2017. YOU'LL THEN WALK INTO THE HENHOUSE AND THEN GET LOCKED OUT. THIS IS EXTRAORDINARY. CAN YOU REMEMBER WHO ROLLED OUT WITH ST PETER'S ALL THOSE YEARS BEFORE? NO, STOP. PLEASE, STOP. FOR YEARS,` NO, IM SAYING` AND REPEATING A FALLACY IS NOT IMPROVING YOUR QUESTIONS. THE FIRST THING THAT BILL ENGLISH SAID TO ME ON THE FIRST MEETING. WE HAD A MEETING WITH NATIONAL FIRST. I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT. YOU PUT THE PIE MINISTER INTO GOVERNMENT. YOU ARE GOING DOWN THE FOXHOLE. BETTER THAN GOING DOWN A RABBIT HOLE. I DON'T KNOW IF NATIONAL SUPPORTERS HAVE FORGIVEN YOU FOR THAT. BOOMING UNLIKE THAT DOES NOT HELP YOU ASK QUESTIONS. MR ENGLISH SAID TO ME, CAN I TAKE YOU ASIDE, WINSTON? SHE SAYS SHE'S GOT THE NUMBERS, BUT SHE HASN'T. AND I REALISE HE WAS TELLING ME THAT JUDITH COLLINS WAS GOING TO ORGANISE A COUP AGAINST HIM. MY GOODNESS. THIS IS EXTRAORDINARY. YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS A BIG MOMENT? I THINK THIS IS A DISTRACTION. WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME, BUT IT IS SUCH JET TO YOU THIS MORNING. (CHUCKLES) THANKS COMING ON THE SHOW THIS MORNING. A MURI AKE NEI ` COMING UP NEXT ` WE GO LIVE TO ALBERT PARK AHEAD OF ANTI-TRANS ACTIVIST POSIE PARKER'S FIRST NEW ZEALAND EVENT. THEY'RE EXPECTING LARGE COUNTER-PROTESTS THIS MORNING. WELCOME BACK. FOLLOWING PROTESTS ` AND A JUDICIAL REVIEW ` THE BRITISH ANTI-TRANS ACTIVIST KNOWN AS POSIE PARKER WAS ALLOWED TO ENTER THE COUNTRY LAST NIGHT. SHE WILL ADDRESS SUPPORTERS AT ALBERT PARK IN AUCKLAND IN ABOUT AN HOUR'S TIME. SENIOR REPORTER NICK TRUEBRIDGE IS THERE. A HUGE AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY AROUND THIS EVENT. WHAT'S THE VIBE THERE THIS MORNING, NICK? GOOD MORNING. THE VIBE RIGHT NOW IS PRETTY CALM. IS IT CALM BEFORE THE STORM? WE WILL FIND OUT. WE ARE EXPECTING A RATHER LARGE COUNTERPROTEST. LET US NOT THEN BEHIND ME THAT IS PARKER'S CREW STARTING TO ASSEMBLE AT THE ROTUNDA IN AUCKLAND'S ALBERT PARK. JUST IN FRONT OF ME IS THAT COUNTERPROTEST. YOU ASK WHAT THE VIBE IS IT IS CALM AT THE MOMENT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY. WE ARE STILL ABOUT AN HOUR AWAY FROM THE EVENT STARTING, BUT WHAT I WE GOING TO EXPECT? WE ARE EXPECTING` IT COULD BE A THOUSAND COUNTERPROTEST IS. CERTAINLY THEY HAVE BEEN ON A PR OFFENSIVE ALL WAKE TO TRY TO GET WHAT THEY CALL ALLIES DOWN HERE. FROM THE PARKER CREW, WE WILL SEE. THERE ARE A FEW ALTERNATIVE MEDIA STARTING TOGETHER. BUT TIME WILL TELL. EARLY DAYS, AND PRETTY QUIET AT THE MOMENT. YOU HAVE DEFINITELY GOT A DOG THERE SOMEWHERE. THERE IS A DOG. NICK, NEO-NAZIS TURNED UP TO SUPPORT HER RALLY IN MELBOURNE. THAT WAS FRIGHTENING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. DOES POSIE HAVE LINKS TO WHITE SUPREMACY? IT REALLY DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK. WE INTERVIEWED HER WHEN SHE ARRIVED AT THE AIRPORT, AND FROM HER POINT OF VIEW, THOSE NEO-NAZI FIGURES AT HER MELBOURNE PROTEST WERE AGAINST HER BECAUSE. THESE WERE MEN AS SHE PUT IT WHO WERE AGAINST WOMEN. OF COURSE, YOU WOULD EXPECT PEOPLE OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DEBATE TO SAY NO, SHE ATTRACTS THESE PEOPLE. SHE HAS VEHEMENTLY SAID SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT ATTRACTING THESE PEOPLE TO HER RALLIES, AND CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO STOP THEM COMING. THAT MAY WELL BE TRUE, BUT THE QUESTION WE ASKED IS WHY DO THEY SHOW UP? THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR HER TO ANSWER. WE SPOKE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO HER LAST NIGHT ABOUT WHAT HER MESSAGES, AND THERE IS ONE SORT OF KEY EXAMPLE THAT USES CONTINUOUSLY IT IS THIS EXAMPLE OF TRANSGENDER WOMEN IN FEMALE BATHROOMS` I SHOULD STATE PREDATORY TRANSGENDER WOMEN IN FEMALE BATHROOMS. WE ASKED HER A NUMBER OF TIMES FOR EXAMPLES OF THAT HAPPENING AND SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY BUT DEANS IS WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE RISK OF THAT OCCURRING. SO A LITTLE BIT OF A SHIFT IN THE MESSAGING HIT OF THIS, BUT CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF THE SORTS OF INDIVIDUALS THESE RALLIES ATTRACT, SHE HAS GONE TO GREAT LENGTHS TO DISTANCE HERSELF FROM THE SORT OF THING WE SAW IN MELBOURNE.. IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY INTERESTING DAY, NO DOUBT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE THIS MORNING. E WHAI AKE NEI ` COMING UP ` MP JAN LOGIE AND ADULT DANCER LAURA PHILIPS JOIN US WITH THEIR PITCH FOR FAIRER EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS FOR STRIPPERS. PLUS, TURMOIL AT TE PUKENGA ` A SPECIAL INVESTIGATION HOKI MAI ANO ` WELCOME BACK. WELLINGTON STRIP CLUB CALENDAR GIRLS HIT THE HEADLINES IN FEBRUARY WHEN IT FIRED 19 WOMEN WHO HAD ASKED FOR BETTER PAY AND CONDITIONS. NOW THE DANCERS HAVE MET WITH MPs AND ARE CALLING FOR AN EMPLOYMENT LAW CHANGE. WITH ME NOW IS ONE OF THOSE WORKERS, LAURA PHILLIPS, SUPPORTED BY JAN LOGIE, WHO IS THE GREEN PARTY'S SPOKESPERSON FOR WOMEN AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. LAURA, I WANT TO START WITH YOU. YOU HAVE LIFTED THE CURTAIN ON THE STRIP INDUSTRY AND ITS WORKING CONDITIONS. THE RULES ARE PRETTY PUNITIVE AT CALENDAR GIRLS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNISE THAT IT IS NOT JUST CALENDAR GIRLS. A 10 INDUSTRY WIDE PROBLEM. THEY ARE USUALLY FOR ARBITRARY, MADE UP OF THINGS. SOME OF THESE BONDS ARE JUST THEFT FROM THE DANCERS' MONEY. THEY CAN BE FOR ANYTHING. $550 FOR BEING RUDE TO MANAGEMENT OR CUSTOMER. THEY CAN BE INTERPRETED IN ANYWAY THAT THE PERSON WHO GIVES THE FINE LIKES. THERE IS A POWER IMBALANCE. YES. TIRED OF THAT IS THE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL STIGMA AND TO BE HONEST DISCRIMINATION THAT HAPPENS TO SEX WORKERS AND STRIPPERS. THAT PROVIDES A BARRIER FOR US TO COME FORWARD AND SEEK JUSTICE, AND WHEN WE DO COME FORWARD AND SEEK JUSTICE, WE LOSE. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO CHANGE. IT LEAVES YOU WITH NO POWER TO NEGOTIATE. YOU CAN'T DEBATE IT. THERE IS NO POWER FOR YOU THERE. IF YOU CAN IMAGINE IT IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR OWN WORK ` IF YOU SAID SOMETHING INCORRECT IF YOU WERE DOING A LIVE SHOW AND THE BOSS SAID, I AM GOING TO TAKE HALF YOUR PAY AND YOU SAID, I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR, AND THEN YOU ARE FIRED. IT'S EXTRAORDINARY. WHERE DOES THAT MONEY GO? WHO GETS THAT? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. IN SOME CLUBS ACROSS NEW ZEALAND, MANAGEMENT ARE ENCOURAGED ACTIVELY TO FINE DANCERS AND THEY SPLIT THE MONEY AMONGST THEMSELVES. AT BEST, THEY ARE COERCIVE, AND AT WORST, THEY ARE JUST THEFT. IT IS ARCHAIC. YOU WANT TO CHANGE THINGS. YOU ARE SPEAKING UP AND STANDING UP. WHAT IS IT SPECIFICALLY THAT YOU WANT? I KNOW THERE IS SOME WORK ALREADY GOING IN THE UNITED STATES AND THESE RIGHTS. A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, WE REALISE THAT IN WASHINGTON STATE, THEY HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THE SAME SORTS OF CHANGES WE ARE ASKING FOR AS WELL. THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AHEAD THEN ASKED, BUT I THINK WE CAN CATCH UP. ALLOWING US TO COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN. SETTING A MINIMUM THAT THE VENUE IS ALLOWED TO TAKE FROM WORKERS AND EARNINGS. SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE A LOT. IT CAN BE A LOT. SOMETIMES OVER 60%. OUR INDUSTRY DOESN'T HAVE A LONG INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY BECAUSE OF PEOPLE COMING IN AND OUT AND THEN FIRING PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF YOUNG WORKERS TO. THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE TOOLS OR UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED SOMETIMES BY THE VENUES. DO YOU THINK THIS IS EXPORTATION? CLEARLY, IT IS EXPLOITATION. I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE STRENGTH AND BRAVERY AND INCREDIBLE WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE BY THE 19 FIRED STILETTOS. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR FAR TOO LONG, AND NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO ORGANISE TO COMMUNICATE WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING, TO BE ABLE TO GET THE CHANGE THAT IS SO DESPERATELY NEEDED. IT HAS ALL BEEN HAPPENING IN THE SHADOWS. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNISE AS THE BRAVERY OF OUR GROUP AS A WHOLE. IF WE DON'T SUCCEED, THEN WE HAVE MADE THINGS WORSE. IT IS A BIG WAIT FOR US TO CARRY. ABSOLUTELY. WE HAVE MADE SEX WORK LEGAL, BUT THERE IS CLEARLY MORE WORK TO DO, ISN'T THERE? YEAH. AND THERE ARE TWO LENSES TO LOOK AT THIS THROUGH. THEY ARE CONTRACTED WORKERS. ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE HAVE AN ISSUE FOR CONTRACTORS WHO CANNOT COLLECTIVELY ORGANISE BY LAW DESPITE SIGNIFICANT POWER IMBALANCES AND ASYMMETRY OF INFORMATION. THAT HAS BEEN FOR CLEANERS AND TRANSPORT WORKERS AND FORESTRY INDUSTRIES AS WELL. WE HAVE AN INDUSTRY WHERE THOSE ISSUES EXIST PLUS SOCIETAL STIGMA THAT IS BEING EXPLOITED BY CLUBS. SO WE NEED TO HAVE A SPECIFIC LEGAL SOLUTION TO ENABLE THEM TO ORGANISE AND TO SET THOSE STANDARDS IN PLACE. AND IT NEEDS TO BE A SOLUTION DRIVEN BY THEM. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE A PART TO PLAY BECAUSE YOU ARE A LAW MAKER. ABSOLUTELY. WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN? WE NEED TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION. HOPEFULLY RIGHT ACROSS THE SEX INDUSTRY IN THIS EXAMPLE AND WITH THE SUPPORT OF QUITE A FEW UNIONS WHO ARE BACKING THEM IN THIS TO WORK OUT WHAT IS THE LEGISLATIVE SOLUTION. I REALLY WANT THE MINISTER TO RECOGNISE THAT THIS IS URGENT AND REALLY IMPORTANT. IT'S ABOUT SAFETY AS WELL AS FAIRNESS IN OUR COMMUNITY. PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO PAY THEIR BILLS, AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE MADE UNSAFE AND HAVE THEIR WAGES DRIVEN DOWN BECAUSE OF THAT IMBALANCE OF POWER. LAURA? I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WE REALLY NEED PUBLIC SUPPORT. WE NEED THEM TO COME TO US TO SHOW US THAT IT IS OKAY TO COME OUT AND TRY AND FIX OUR INDUSTRY FROM THE INSIDE OUT. I YOU FEELING PUBLIC SUPPORT AT THE MOMENT? YES, BUT IT'S ALWAYS BE A NERVE WRECKING. WE ALWAYS FEEL THE FRAGILITY OF IT. THE BOTTOM LINE FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW IS THAT IF YOU DO NOT SUPPORT US AS WORKERS, YOU SUPPORT VENUES TO CONTINUE THIS BEHAVIOUR. THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO OPTIONS. WE WILL LEAVE THAT THEY ARE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS HOKI MAI ANO ` WELCOME BACK. JANUARY 1st MARKED THE START OF TE PUKENGA ` THE MERGER OF OUR POLYTECHS, AND TRAINING ORGANISATIONS. WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED IN 2019, THEN-EDUCATION MINISTER CHRIS HIPKINS PROMISED TE PUKENGA WOULD BE 'TRANSFORMATIONAL', BUT IT'S NOW CHEWING THROUGH FUNDS, SHEDDING STAFF, AND HAS POOR PROVISIONAL RESULTS FOR MAORI AND PACIFIC STUDENTS ` ONE OF ITS PRIORITY AREAS. AND AS LAURA TUPOU REPORTS, SOME FORMER AND CURRENT STAFF HAVE HAD ENOUGH. FOUR YEARS AFTER THE MERGER BEGAN AND THREE MONTHS INTO THE FULLY-FORMED CROWN ENTITY, AND THREE MONTHS INTO THE FULLY FORMED CROWN ENTITY, THERE IS STILL DIVISION. TWO FORMER POLITICS CEOS AND A CURRENT STAFFER AND UNION REP HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT ITS DIRECTION. I'M FEARFUL THAT WE'VE PUT ALL OF OUR EGGS INTO THE TE PUKENGA BASKET. I'M FEARFUL THAT STUDENTS DON'T HAVE CHOICE. THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE IN TERMS OF ENROLMENTS, IN TERMS OF EQUITY GAPS. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START PULLING OUT, AND IT'S GONNA BE` IT'S GONNA BE A DEATH SPIRAL. TE PUKENGA WAS FORMED AFTER INTENSE CONSULTATION WITH THE VOCATIONAL EDUCATION SECTOR. LAST YEAR ALONE, THE GOVERNMENT HAD TO PUT AN EXTRA $100m INTO THE POLYTECH SYSTEM SIMPLY TO KEEP IT AFLOAT. SO AROUND $200m WAS SPENT ON THE TRANSITION COSTS TO FORM TE PUKENGA. BUT SENIOR LECTURER STEVE McCABE IS LEFT WONDERING WHY. TWICE A MONTH NOW ON MY BANK STATEMENT, MY SALARY COMES FROM TE PUKENGA, NOT FROM M.I.T, AND THAT'S ABOUT THE MOST PROFOUND CHANGE I'VE SEEN. WE'VE JUST SPENT MILLIONS ON ESTABLISHING COUNCILS AND GROUPS AND DISESTABLISHING AND ESTABLISHING, UM, EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP TEAMS AND DISESTABLISHING AND APPOINTING ALL OF THESE HEAD OFFICE STAFF. IT WOULD BE REASONABLE TO EXPECT BETTER SERVICES FOR STUDENTS, THAT THINGS WERE GOING BETTER FOR STAFF, THAT IT WAS BREAKEVEN OR RUNNING A SURPLUS, BUT OF COURSE, NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. AT THE END OF LAST YEA, TE PUKENGA FORECAST A $110m DEFICIT. THAT WAS LATER REVISED DOWN TO $63m ` CLOSER TO THE BUDGETED DEFICIT OF $59m. STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH IN THE CURRENT EDUCATION MINISTER'S BOOKS. BASICALLY SAID, 'WE NEED TO SEE THIS TURNING AROUND ` AND NOW.' BUT JUST LAST WEEK, A LEAK REVEALED MORE MONEY WAS SOUGHT BY TE PUKENGA AS PART OF THIS YEAR'S BUDGET ` $330m MORE. THAT MONEY IS ONLY TO GET THE I.T. SYSTEMS TALKING TO EACH OTHER, ESSENTIALLY, AND IT'S ONLY TO MAKE REDUNDANCIES FOR MORE STAFF. WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE EARLY REQUESTS WERE FOR NEARLY $1m WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE EARLY REQUESTS WERE FOR NEARLY $1B OVER 10 YEARS. SO THE $330m IS NOT THE FINAL POINT. THEY WILL BE COMING BACK ASKING FOR MORE MONEY. THIS FOR AN INSTITUTION THAT STARTED TO FORM FOUR YEARS AGO BUT STILL DOESN'T HAVE AN OPERATING MODEL. WHAT WILL BE DONE DIFFERENTLY? HOW WILL THAT BE ACHIEVED? WHAT ARE THE TIMELINES FOR THAT? WHAT ARE THE CRITICAL COMPONENTS WITHIN THAT? WHAT ARE THE COSTS? IT SHOULD ALL BE SET OUT IN A CLEAR OPERATING MODEL. WHEN ARE YOU EXPECTING TO SEE ONE? AGAIN, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ITERATIVE PROCESS BECAUSE AS... CHANGE TAKES TIME. CHANGE ISN'T GOING TO BE OVERNIGHT. AND WHAT WE DO KNOW` BUT HOW DO THEY KNOW HOW TO CHANGE IF THEY DON'T HAVE AN OPERATING MODEL? WELL, THEY DO HAVE AN OPERATING MODEL. THAT'S IT. WHERE IS IT? WHERE IS THEIR OPERATING MODEL? THEY'RE DEVELOPING THAT AS WE'RE GOING ALONG. WITH NO OPERATING MODEL AND AROUND 480 JOBS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AS THEY SEEK TO MAKE BUDGET CUTS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS, STEVE McCABE SAYS STAFF ARE ON EDGE. THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE HAVE IS THAT 'CUTS ARE COMING, 'AND MY JOB MIGHT BE NEXT'. AND THIS DOES NOT PUT PEOPLE IN A GOOD FRAME OF MIND WHEN THEY SHOW UP TO WORK ON A MONDAY MORNING. THE THEN MINISTER MADE HIS EXPECTATIONS CLEAR FROM THE OUTSET, DETAILING ALL SIX OF THEM ` ONE OF THEM EMPHASISING THE NEED FOR SUCCESSFUL MAORI AND PACIFIC LEARNERS. BUT PROVISIONAL DATA SHOWN TO NEWSHUB NATION PAINTS A DIFFERENT PICTURE, WITH NO IMPROVEMENT TO SUCCESS FOR MAORI AND PACIFIC STUDENTS SINCE 2019. I'VE BEEN VERY STRONG ABOUT THIS IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS SINCE I'VE COME IN AS EDUCATION MINISTER IS THAT THEY NEED TO SOLVE THAT. BUT SOMETHING THE MINISTER DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS INCREASED COMPETITION BETWEEN PRIVATE TRAINING ESTABLISHMENTS AND TEPUKENGA. YOOBEE JUST RECEIVED $370,000 TO DEVELOP A DIPLOMA AND ENROLLED NURSING PROGRAMME ` A COURSE STEVE TEACHES ON. WE'RE NOT CREATING OPTIONS. THOSE OPTIONS ALREADY EXISTED BEFORE. NO, THIS IS A BRAND NEW COURSE YOU'RE FUNDING FOR YOOBEE TO BRANCH OUT INTO NURSING FOUNDATIONAL STUDIES WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE IT DOWN THE ROAD. BUT THE PTEs EXISTED THERE BEFORE. MERRAN DAVIS WANTS THE CEO AND THE BOARD REMOVED AND HAS A PETITION WITH PARLIAMENT TO DO JUST THAT. THE MADNESS NEEDS TO STOP, AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A SANITY CHECK. THE CEO, PETER WINDER, WAS APPROACHED FOR AN INTERVIEW SEVERAL TIMES FOR THIS STORY BUT REFUSED. THE MINISTER BACKS HIS LEADERSHIP. AND WITH LABOUR AND GOVERNMENT, JAN TINETTI SAYS TEPUKENGA IS HERE TO STAY. JAN TINETTI SAYS TE PUKENGA IS HERE TO STAY. NATIONAL WOULD SCRAP IT ALTOGETHER. WE WOULDN'T GO BACK TO 16 POLYTECHNICS AS THEY WERE BEFORE. WE'D PROBABLY GO BACK TO AROUND 10. BUT ONE THING THAT CAN BE AGREED ON IS THE FUTURE OF VOCATIONAL EDUCATION IN AOTEAROA NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED. WHETHER YOU'RE A TRADIE, WHETHER YOU'RE A YOUR SOCIAL WORKER, WHETHER YOU'RE A TRADIE, WHETHER YOU'RE A SOCIAL WORKER, WHETHER YOU JUST WANT TO LEARN TO READ AND WRITE SO YOU CAN GET YOUR LICENCE WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, SO YOU CAN GET YOUR LICENCE ` WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, I THINK THAT, AS KIWIS, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE A CREDIBLE SYSTEM. I'M JOINED NOW BY OUR PANEL ` FORMER LABOUR PARTY PRESIDENT MIKE WILLIAMS, NEWSROOM POLITICAL EDITOR JO MOIR AND FRAN O'SULLIVAN, WHO IS HEAD OF BUSINESS AT NZME. TENA KOUTOU ` WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME. I WANT TO START ON THE BIG STORY THIS WEEK WE HAVE A NEW POLICE MINISTER, THE FIFTH IN 10 MONTHS. THAT IS DISRUPTIVE, ISN'T IT? DISRUPTIVE IS DEFINITELY ACCURATE. IT HAS BOUNCED AROUND A LOT, AND YOU HAD SEEN THERE HAS BEEN AN ATTEMPT TO MIX IT AROUND A BIT. THINGS CHANGE A LOT WHEN YOU HEAD WILLIAMS COME INTO THE ROLE, THEN IT GOT THROWN INTO MR FIXIT, SO CHRIS HIPKINS CAME IN, AND THEN HE DECIDED TO TAKE IT BACK TO STUART NASH, MORE HARDENED RESPONSE. SHE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FULL STOP I HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED WITH HER SO FAR. SHE HAS DONE A LOT OF LIVES AND HAS HELD HER GROUND AND IS MOSTLY ACROSS THE TOPICS. WHERE SHE IS LACKING IS THAT HOW I YOU GOING TO DO THAT AND HOW IS IT GOING TO FIX THAT. BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FOCUS IS ARE, SHE IS KIND OF NAILED THAT SOFA. *THAT SO FAR. AND THOSE ARE TOUGH QUESTIONS TO ANSWER AFTER A FEW DAYS. MIKE, HOW DO YOU RATE HER PERFORMANCE? I THINK THAT SHE IS DOING VERY WELL. SHE HAS BEEN THROWN INTO THE DEEP END. SHE HAS A BACKGROUND IN POLICING WHICH COMES OUT. HER HUSBAND WAS A POLICE OFFICER AND SHE WORKED FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE TALKS ABOUT, AND I DON'T THINK YOU WERE ABLE TO TRIP UP. WHAT ABOUT YOUTH CRIME? THAT IS HER FOCUS AND A BIG AREA FOR THE GOVERNMENT. THE ELECTION IS IN OCTOBER. YOUTH CRIME OVERALL IS DROPPING AND HAS BEEN FOR SOME YEARS. BUT HAS IT? BUT THAT IS THE QUESTION YOU ASKED HER. HOWEVER, I THINK IT CAME UP DURING COVID BECAUSE KIDS WERE STUCK AT HOME FOR AGES AWAY FROM SCHOOL, GOT TOGETHER AND DID NAUGHTY THINGS. I THINK IT WILL PASS, AND I THINK GINNY MADE THAT POINT TO THAT THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL SITUATION, AND NOW WE ARE GETTING BACK TO NORMAL, I THINK THAT THE NUMBERS WILL DECLINE. FRAN, THIS IS A BIG ISSUE, ISN'T IT? FOR BUSINESSES OUT THERE AND FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE FRONTLINE OF RAM RAIDS. DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT` WE NEED TO SEE MORE FROM THEM IN THE SPACE? I THINK WE NEED TO SEE MORE FRONTLINE POLICE, AND I SAY THAT, AND SHE HAS INDICATED THAT TODAY, BUT I ALSO THINK WE HAD POLICE OUT DURING THE PANDEMIC PREDICTING THE PERIMETER OF AUCKLAND; THEY WON'T ACTUALLY PREDICTING WHAT WAS HAPPENING INSIDE AUCKLAND. NOW PEOPLE HAVE COME BACK IN. I AM HOPING THE PARTICULARLY TALKING ABOUT AUCKLAND THAT THE NEW COMMANDER ACTUALLY RESPONDS TO WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WANTING IN THE CITY, AND THAT IS TO HAVE ROVING POLICE STATIONS, MINIBUS THINGS AROUND THE PLACE, WHICH OTHER CITIES DO AROUND THE GLOBE. YOU DON'T SEE MANY PEOPLE WALKING AROUND, AND I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT HERE FOR THE BEST PART OF TWO DECADES, AND THERE HAS BEEN A BIG CHANGE. IN RELATION TO THE RAM RAIDS, IT IS A BIG ISSUE FOR SMALL SHOPKEEPERS IN PARTICULAR, BUT NOT ONLY THAT, BECAUSE IT ALSO AFFECTS WALLS AS WELL, AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED AND DAMAGED. PHYSICALLY HURT. SO THERE IS A PHYSICAL VULNERABILITY THEREFORE SHOPKEEPERS. THE INDIAN COMMUNITY IN PARTICULAR. A PATHWAY TO A SUSTAINABLE LIFESTYLE FOR INDIAN IMMIGRANTS IS OFTEN TO DO THE CORNER STORE, PUT THEIR KIDS TO UNIVERSITY AND EVERYBODY WORKS IN THE STORE. BUT NOW YOU SEE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DOES WORRY ME IS THIS REVISION IN THE POLICE STATISTICS JUST A WEEK OR SO AGO WHICH SUGGESTED THEY HAD BEEN UNDERSTATED. WHAT IS GOING ON THE? WE NEED TRUTH AND TELL FROM THE POLICE WHERE THEY FRONT UP ON THE SO WE CAN SEE THE MAGNITUDE OF THE ISSUES AND DEAL WITH IT. WE NEED TO KNOW THE SIZE OF THE PROBLEM. YOU WILL HAVE SEEN A FEW OF WINSTON PETERS SPEECHES. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF IT TODAY? THERE WERE LOTS OF FAMILIAR THINGS IN THEIR. FAMILIARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT. VERY FAMILIAR SPEECH. NOTHING NEW ET ALL, I HAD HOPED FOR SOME BLOCKBUSTER STATEMENT OR POLICY. THE ATTACK ON WOKENESS ` EVERYBODY IS DOING THAT. HE IS IN A LOT OF COMPANY, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE DOING A LOT BETTER. I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED, BECAUSE HE CAN BE EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING ON HIS DAY, AND HE WASN'T. I CAN THINK OF OTHER SPEECHES BY WINSTON PETERS THAT HAVE BEEN LIKE LIGHTENING RODS. THE ONE IN HOWICK YEARS AGO. BUT THIS WAS NOT THAT, WAS IT? HE WAS FEEDING THE CHICKENS HERE, WASN'T HE? LITTLE BIT OF THIS, ANTI-MANDATE, LITTLE BIT OF THAT FOR YOU, WOKENESS. A LOT OF THE SAME LINES AND DRUGS. IN FAIRNESS TO HIM, IT STILL GETS A LAUGH MANUAL LABOUR, ALWAYS A FAVOURITE. HIS ARGUMENT IS THAT IT IS A NEW POLICY BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN PICKED UP YET, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT IT FOR MORE THAN A DECADE, IS IT REALLY? I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT ISN'T. BUT IT IS A DIFFICULT SPACE AT THE MOMENT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT PARLIAMENT MAKE UP AT THE MOMENT AND THE DIRECTION AND MOMENTUM BEHIND THE ACT PARTY AT THE MOMENT, THEY ARE FIGHTING IN THE SAME TERRITORY. THAT IS HARD FOR NEW ZEALAND FIRST WHEN THEY ARE NOT IN PARLIAMENT. THEY DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY HAVE WHEN THEY ARE IN PARLIAMENT, AND HAVING THAT MACHINE BEHIND YOU. I'M NOT SURE THE MACHINE BEHIND NEW ZEALAND FIRST IS THE SAME NATURE, SAME PEOPLE AND HAS THE SAME ABILITY TO GET THEM BACK INTO POWER AS LAST TIME HE WAS OUT. SO IT WILL BE A BIT OF AN UPHILL CLIMB. I WAS THINKING ABOUT A NATIONAL, ACT AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST COALITION, AND I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT FEEL A BIT LIKE A BAR FIGHT. IT MIGHT BE HARD TO PUT A BRAKE ON. AN INTERESTING POINT OTHERS ARE ALREADY OCCUPYING THE SPACE. BUT WHAT I THINK IT DOES DO PERHAPS TO THE BENEFIT OF THE NATIONAL AND ACT IS IT MAGNIFIES THE MESSAGE, HAS SOMEBODY SAYING IN A RETAIL WAY THAT THIS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH, TALKING ABOUT A RANGE OF ISSUES AROUND EDUCATION, BACK TO BASICS. NATIONAL HAS ALREADY PUT OUT A POLICY IN THAT AREA THIS WEEK. IT KIND OF... IF YOU ARE SITTING OUT THERE HEARING THIS FROM MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS, IT MIGHT TELL YOU ACTUALLY, THERE IS AN ISSUE. BUT I THINK THE POINT ABOUT DAVID SEYMOUR AND HOW HE IS INCREDIBLY WELL RESOURCED WITH HIS EXTRA MILLION OF HIGH-TECH AT RICH PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT IN SIZEABLE DONATIONS THAT HAS JUST COME OUT ON THE LAST DAY OR SO ` WINSTON PETERS ONCE USED TO GET SIZEABLE DONATIONS AS WELL. HE SAID THERE WERE ISSUES AROUND HOW HE DID NOT GET BACK IN THE LAST ELECTION BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE AROUND THE SFO, WHICH MOUNTED AN INVESTIGATION, WHICH, I HAVE TO SAY, THE PARTY AND OTHERS CAME THROUGH THAT OKAY. BUT I WONDER WHAT THE EFFECT MIGHT BE ON WHAT SORT OF MONEY THEY MIGHT ATTRACT THROUGH WHICHEVER AVENUE THIS TIME AROUND. AND LETTERS REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING A CAMPAIGN AND RUNNING UP AGAINST THE PLATFORM THE POLITICIANS HAVE. FROM A POLITICAL PARTY PRESIDENT POINT OF VIEW, PILES OF MONEY IN A CAMPAIGN ARE NOT THAT HELPFUL. WE ARE A VERY WELL REGULATED DEMOCRACY. YOU CAN SPEND ONLY WHAT YOU ARE GIVEN ON RADIO AND TELEVISION, EDIT DOES NOT PAY TO BE` TO APPEAR INCREDIBLY WEALTHY IN A CAMPAIGN. IT IS A BIG PUT OFF. SO I THINK WELL DONE DAVID SEYMOUR FOR CALLING ALL THAT MONEY ON, BUT IT WILL NOT DO A HELL OF A LOT OF GOOD. PEOPLE VOTE ON PERSONALITIES AND POLICIES RATHER THAN MONEY. WINSTON PETERS HAS PLENTY OF PERSONALITY. WE KNOW THAT. STILL WAITING FOR THE POLICIES. WE DID SEE SOME THIS WEEK FROM NATIONAL ` THE EDUCATION POLICY. I THINK IT WAS RECEIVED WELL. IF YOU TAKE OUT THE LIKES OF THE NEW ZEALAND PRINCE WAS ASSOCIATION, YES. THOSE UNIONS ARE REASONABLY LINKED WITH LABOUR, AND I FEEL LIKE WHENEVER NATIONAL PUTS OUT AN EDUCATION POLICY, THE INSTINCT IS TO GO, DON'T LIKE THAT. IT WAS DEFINITELY THE BEST POLICY THEY HAVE PUT OUT SO FAR. I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO CHRISTOPHER LUXTON. HE HAS SPOKEN ABOUT HIS CONCERNS THERE HAS ENTIRE TIME HE HAS BEEN LEADER, AND YOU CAN TELL HE FEELS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. IT COMES DOWN TO THIS DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO A VERY STRUCTURED CLASSROOM OR WHETHER YOU WANT TO KEEP WHAT THE CLASSROOM IS NOW, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT MORE LOOSE. THERE ARE ARGUMENTS FOR BOTH SIDES, AND PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE THAT NEEDS TO BE FOUND, AND WE PROBABLY HAVEN'T QUITE GOT THERE YET. ON THAT ` I THINK THE FIGURES SHOW EDUCATION -WISE WE HAVE SLIPPED DOWN IN OECD RANKINGS. THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT. IF YOU HAVE PARENTS WHO ARE VERY MINDFUL OF THEIR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION, GETTING THEM INTO SCHOOLS WHERE THEY HAVE EXCEPTIONAL TEACHERS AND EXCEPTIONAL FOCUS ON BRINGING UP CHILDREN IN A CERTAIN WAY. BUT THESE BASICS ACTUALLY ARE IMPORTANT. YOU SEE IT NOW IN OUR INDUSTRY WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT GRAMMATICALLY THAT BRILLIANT. IT IS TRUE. FRAN IS QUITE RIGHT. WE ARE SLIPPING DOWN THE OECD RATINGS WHEN YOU LOOK AT 15-YEAR-OLDS. A 15 YEAR OLD'S FORMATIVE READING AND WRITING LEARNING. WAS UNDER NATIONAL. THEY CREATED THIS PROBLEM WITH THEIR NATIONAL STANDARDS. WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IS REVIVE THAT. IT DOESN'T WORK. YOU CANNOT RIGIDLY TELL TEACHERS WHAT TO DO. WE ARE TOO DIVERSE SOCIETY FOR THAT. LET ME REVEAL THAT I SPENT THE FIRST SIX YEARS OF MY WORKING LIFE AS A SCHOOLTEACHER, SO I WAS ABSOLUTELY INCENSED AT THIS POLICY, AND THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T NOTICE THAT IT WAS NATIONAL WHO LARGELY CAUSED PROBLEM WE ARE NOW DEALING WITH. THERE'S PLENTY OF TIME YET BEFORE THE ELECTION, MIKE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THE NATION THIS MORNING. I FORGOT TO MENTION YOU CAN USE GRAMMARLY. THEIR AS AN APP FOR THAT. THAT'S ALL FROM US FOR NOW. THANKS FOR WATCHING ` NGA MIHI NUI; TENA TATOU KATOA. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023