Tutumaiao. Pari karangaranga. Tenei te reo rahiri e karanga atu ana ki a koutou katoa. Nau mai, piki mai, ahu mai ki ta tatou hui. This week on The Hui ` - At the moment, Te Karaka feels like a ghost town because so many whanau are unable to live here. - Te Aitanga a Mahaki have an ambitious recovery plan to help rehouse their people post-Cyclone Gabrielle. - You just drive around here, these people have been through hard times. - And we do a deep dive into the latest changes to the Three Waters reform, and how they will impact Maori. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 - Rarangi maunga tu te ao, tu te po. Rarangi tangata ngaro noa, ngaro noa. Nga mate o te wa, haere mai, haere. Tatou e pae nei, tihewa mauri ora, and welcome back, this week, to The Hui. You will have seen pictures of the devastation wreaked by Cyclone Gabrielle in the small community Te Karaka outside of Gisborne. The cleanup job facing whanau is massive, and many of them have no insurance to help pay for that rebuild. But what you won't probably know is that the local iwi, Te Aitanga a Mahaki, has an ambitious plan to repair and rebuild housing for homeless whanau within six months. Mea nei te purongo a John Boynton. - When Cyclone Gabrielle hit... - Holy (BLEEP)! - ...this small village of Te Karaka felt abandoned. - This happened so quick. - I feel for all my people that have lost things, lost their homes, you know, and have to rebuild. - Did you lose everything? - Yup, I lost everything. - With almost half the community having no insurance. - The reality is, Maori whanau can't afford it, when they're just trying to put a bread on the table. - But local iwi Te Aitanga a Mahaki is stepping up,... - When our people are at their most vulnerable, somebody's got to go in to bat for them. - ...with an ambitious plan to repair and rebuild homes within six months. - It's fortified me. It's given me a new hope and gratitude, really. They've come to my rescue. - Six weeks on, the cleanup crews are gone, and the piles of rubbish cleared. These streets sitting in silence. At the moment, Te Karaka feels like a ghost town because so many whanau are unable to live here. They're scattered across the region, with many living in emergency accommodation, and their lives are in total upheaval. Like Noel Ruru, who was forced to flee for his life during the cyclone. - And that broke me. You know, I said, 'I'm leaving my town today.' My little township where I was brought up. - Noel's currently living in a motel in Gisborne, 60km away from his hometown. This photo of his father, who served during World War II, one of his only possessions to survive the flood. - Lives you can't replace. - He's currently back at work full-time, but returning home to Te Karaka is still raw. - Every time I come home, and I drive past my marae and see how it is, it breaks my heart. You should see my mum's house, my cousins... Nobody living there, no lights on. (DOOR CLANKS) - This garage was where Noel stayed at the time. He was finding his feet again after living in his truck for months. - This is where I stay. - He didn't have much, but what he did have was mostly destroyed. - Look at it. It happened so fast. - And did you have insurance, Noel? - No. No insurance. - For a lot of whanau here, insurance is a luxury. We have working poor. - Robyn Rauna is the chief executive of local iwi Te Aitanga a Mahaki. Should insurance be a luxury? - Insurance, I think, is more a nice-to-have these days for those that can afford it. - Robyn is overseeing the insurance response for her iwi. 110 homes were impacted by the cyclone in this rohe. 66 homes were insured, while 44 were uninsured. How much is it going to cost for those 44 households where whanau who don't have insurance? - Well, that's something that we're hoping will be addressed in the upcoming budget. We're hoping that central government will hear the cries of our people, to help us help our people into warm, safe, dry homes. - But in the meantime, the iwi isn't waiting, using its own resources and connections to make sure uninsured whanau aren't forgotten. Te Aitanga a Mahaki is looking into two options. Option one is to rebuild. Now, to rebuild a brand new home they estimate is going to cost up to $500,000. Option two is to repair all yellow-stickered homes. Now, this is the cheap option and comes with an estimated price tag of between $18,000 and $50,000. - So we think we've got a recovery plan that can assist our people and all of the people that live in our rohe. - The first step in that recovery is having whanau living in portable homes on their whenua, while repairs are being carried out. The iwi has ambitious plans to bring more than 100 temporary homes to whenua like this in Te Karaka by the end of May, and by the end of August, they want all whanau in permanent housing. - Whilst it's a challenge that we're more than capable and ready to take on, we need everyone else to keep up with us. - The iwi is also helping insured whanau who face a long wait ahead. Matahi and Rapoia Brightwell's home in Gisborne was flooded and buried in silt. The last six weeks have been stressful, waiting for insurance assessors. - I've been incoherent for six weeks, and even now, my mind's not clear. My main focus is to restore the house and bring my grandchildren back. - Matahi is known as a master carver and for establishing waka ama in Aotearoa, investing his time and matauranga back into the community for decades. But this time, his community is giving back to him. He's receiving a portable home through the iwi,... - The community support I've had has been incredible. Without their support, we would have not got this far. Ready for the rebuild. - ...allowing his whanau to live on-site while the rebuild takes place. - It's deeply, deeply gratifying to see our whanau, their eyes light up. They've got an extra glimmer of hope. They can house their mokopuna. - Got to go your way, eh. - Te Aitanga a Mahaki is working with iwi-led housing providers and local businesses to provide these whare. - It won't be the ideal, but it will help them feel a little bit of normality. - Te honore he kororia ki te Atua. He maungarongo ki te whenua. He whakaaro pai ki nga tangata katoa. - Amene. - But Robyn says there's an overwhelming amount of work ahead, and the strain is starting to show. You're taking this seriously and carrying that pressure on your shoulders? Yup. You drive around here, these people have been through hard times. (INHALES SHAKILY) I don't like seeing our whanau get kicked in the guts. - Whanau like Noel Ruru, who's lost everything. But with the help of his iwi, he's hopeful he'll get a portable home. - That's my goal, to have a roof over my head, not sleeping in my truck. - His path forward is a little clearer. - When things happen like this, we all gotta come together and help one another. (HOPEFUL MUSIC) Kei tua iti ake nei e nga iwi ` after the break on The Hui ` Local Government Minister Kieran McAnulty joins us live from Wellington to discuss the new affordable water reforms. (LAUGHTER AND CHATTER) (LIVELY MUSIC PLAYS) (PEOPLE GASP) (BELLOWS) Call this a feast?! I've regurgitated bigger meals than this! (DRAMATIC MUSIC) Excuse me. (INTREPID MUSIC) Walk! (WHEELS SQUEAK) M'lady. (PEOPLE CHATTER) (EPIC MUSIC) (PEOPLE CHEER) Is this Greek salad? Nah, it's from New Zealand, eh! VOICEOVER: Four Square. What'll it be today? Kua whakahiato mai ra koutou ki ta tatou hui e wananga ana i nga kaupapa nui o te wa. Welcome back to The Hui. It's being called a major shake-up that will see affordable water reforms led and delivered regionally. From Three Waters to affordable water reform; from four regional entities now to 10. Joining us now live from Wellington is the Minister for Local Government, Kieran McAnulty. E te minita, tena koe. Thank you very much for your time. - Kia ora. - Under this model, mana whenua input is retained, but you've been clear that this is not co-governance. Why? - I think it was a mistake to call it that in the first place, because it gave the impression that there was an element of control and direction, and that isn't the case. In fact, the whole point of these reforms is to remove direct local control so that we can achieve what's called balance sheet separation. But what's important is that the regional representation groups that have 50% mana whenua and 50% local government are able to put forward the priorities of the regions to the independent governing bodies of these entities. - But you've acknowledged that Maori have interests in water, and in fact, it's the basis of the claim led by Ngai Tahu, and also supported by Ngati Kahungungu. So how does this give effect to rangatiratanga, if at all? - Well, I do strongly believe that with these regional representative groups, that 50% should be made up of mana whenua. There's two reasons for that. I think it gives effect to the Crown's obligations when it comes to water, but also, we've received advice that by having other representatives alongside local government, it helps achieve us` It helps us achieve that balance sheet separation. And if it's going to be anybody else other than local government, then I'm firmly of the view that it should be mana whenua. The reason why we want to clarify exactly what the role of these groups are, is because much of the opposition that is around this is around scaremongering. It's deliberately conflating what we're saying, expanding it out to beyond what we are. And so it's very clear that we have to state as clearly as possible that this isn't a governing group, this is a representative group, and mana whenua have a place. - They have a place, but not on a governing group. So if this isn't rangatiratanga ` and I think you've answered the question that it isn't ` what does rangatiratanga look like in this space going forward? - Well, I think it's important to recognise that right throughout this process, we have engaged extensively with iwi and with hapu, and they have been fully supportive of what's being proposed here, and essentially what we've put forward hasn't changed. The number of entities have changed, and of course, we've engaged with iwi on that factor as well leading up to the announcement, but they were very clear that as long as we have maintained, as we indicated, 50% on the regional representative group, that they were very happy with that, that that would give them an opportunity to be able to put forward the priorities for local Maori alongside local government and truly put forward that representative vision and view of the priorities of the region. - But it looks like, I think, and many have said this, that you've had to make change from the four regional entities now to 10 to assuage a noisy and bloated bureaucracy. What's your response to Maori who would say the fact that you've now got four` moved from four councils now to 10 ` does that, and lessens the ability of community groups to be able to get direct access, particularly when it comes to things like resource consents into harbours? - Well, if anything, I would think that local Maori would support this because they are not dealing with a large entity. They're not struggling to put forward their particular local view. alongside countless hapu and a very large number of iwi in a larger entity. By bringing the number of entities` increasing the number of entities and therefore bringing the boundaries in, it's a lot more aligned with the working relationship that already exists. So local iwi and hapu working within regional council boundaries, for example, it actually strengthens their local voice relatively to what it was under four entities. But the reason we've done that is not necessarily to cater to those that were asking for local voice and only local voice like we've all heard over a couple of years now. It's about finding a balance. Ultimately, we are very firm in the view that reform has to happen, and New Zealanders have a very clear choice this election between what we've proposed with 10 entities, which we can prove will save ratepayers money or the status quo, which is the essence of the Opposition's policy. If we stuck with four, there's a very good chance that we would not have been able to get buy-in from the general public, and if we didn't get buy-in, then they may well have ended up with the status quo, costing ratepayers thousands. I would rather find that balance, still save them a lot of money ` not as much as under four, but still a lot of money ` than risk going back to the status quo, which would be detrimental to all our communities. - Can I just come back to the point that you made, though, where you said that local iwi could engage with councils on these levels now. Given the failure of councils over years, both at a local and regional level, to be able to engage effectively with Maori on a number of these issues ` say to do with fresh water, even on infrastructure ` do you honestly believe that anything will meaningfully change in terms of that engagement with Maori communities now? - I really do, because by guaranteeing 50% representation on that regional representative group will mean that they have to ensure that there is a clear, unified vision in terms of the priorities put forward to those entities. It's vitally important that those entities are run independently. That is why we've done it, because balance sheet separation is the crucial element to getting these savings, being able to borrow at scale, and therefore at a level that communities can afford. But by having mana whenua there, it's nothing that the general public needs to be worried about. In fact, if anything, it's very similar to arrangement that many councils have across the country. But as you've just said, not all councils do, and I think those communities are missing out from getting mana whenua input specifically in the context of water. By doing what we're proposing, we can ensure that that viewpoint's put forward, and it is at the same level, like it should be in this instance. - Why not just have 50% representation on the independent entity? That would assure direct access and communication and engagement. The reason why you're not doing it is because, as you said earlier,... - Because` - ...you have to assuage local council, and it wouldn't have gone down, but that's the most effective way to guarantee rangatiratanga, isn't it? - I think it's really important to remember that what we've` the element of mana whenua representation that we announced on Thursday is exactly the same as was proposed under the four entity model. It's just under 10 entities rather than four. The level of representation hasn't changed, and like I said, when we engaged with iwi and the fresh water users group, for example, and we put forward this proposal, they were very comfortable with what they` what we were proposing because essentially, that core element hadn't changed. And so, yes, I am quite comfortable with what we've proposed, but specifically to your question, is that if we had direct level of oversight and governance and day-to-day control at an operational level, we ran the risk of not achieving that balance sheet separation. It's a confusing and deliberately convoluted process in order to be able to remove the debt from councils' balance sheets in a way that saves ratepayers money, which is ultimately the driving rationale behind these reforms. But if we're going to do it, we should be able to do it in a way that recognises that Maori have a special interest in water, that that has been` Even the former prime minister, when he was Deputy Prime Minister, Sir Bill English, submitted to the High Court that they have` that Maori have a special interest in water, and the Supreme Court has referred to that. So we recognise that, and we think that what we've proposed acknowledges that and gives local Maori an opportunity to put their priorities through that regional representative group. - Minister, thank you very much for your time. We do appreciate it and I know you were waiting for a while, No reira, e te minita, tena koe, appreciate your time. That was the Local Government Minister,... - Thank you. - ...Kieran McAnulty joining us there from Wellington. After the break, we have more on the Government's new water reforms. Haami Piripi, a director of Waipunarangi, formerly one of the four regions of Three Waters, joins us in the studio. - Kia ora mai ano. Kua auraki mai ra koutou ki ta tatou hui. You heard from the local government minister there. Let's hear from a representative of Te Ao Maori. Joining us now is a current director of Waipunarangi, Haami Piripi, he uri no Te Rarawa. E kara, Haami, tena koe. - Kia ora. - OK, you've heard the minister there. Let's get your response on the changes to the affordable water reforms. - Well, the changes that have` that he's announced, they are significant, but they haven't really changed the structure and the balance that we had already established with the entities. So the regional oversight group (CLEARS THROAT) has remained the same. Their powers remain the same. The ability to become involved in appointing the directors of the water services entity, that's built into the legislation. The ability to establish regional panels to take account of more localised opinion, that's still in place. So the only thing that's really changed, I think, significantly is the expansion to the 10 entities, and that's really the result of a rationalisation of cost rather than anything else. - And dealing with a noisy opposition, a racist noisy opposition. I mean, many of the councils in the North bitterly opposed Three Waters. - They did, but I think they` I think there was a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about Three Waters. The whole idea of` the idea of co-governance, for example, I don't know where that idea really came from. It seems to me that councils weren't opposed to that notion, iwi weren't opposed to that notion, and I'm not sure that even government was, But opposition was bitterly opposed to it and raised the hackles of many people, I think, on the basis of misinformation. - Wouldn't you have preferred a much bigger regional Northland entity that included more of Auckland and a bit of the top of Waikato, in Waipunarangi, as it was originally scoped out in Three Waters so that you could be able to deal with the debt facility issues, get more money in to deal with the infrastructure problems, so that you could fix some of the issues you've got, say, in Hokianga, Rawene? - Yes. Yes, definitely. And we` I mean, our entity in the North, and it was with Auckland, didn't change in terms of the restructuring, and in fact, we stayed exactly the same. And part of the reason for that, I think, is because we were so committed to each other as partners, as iwi working together and coordinating our efforts in terms of water management, because we've got so many problems on the ground in terms of water allocation, water distribution, water quality. They're major issues for our communities. - Do you see this, though, being able to remedy some of the major issues you have, say, for instance, on resource consent, for discharge into Hokianga? Is that going to change under this new structure or under the structure now for affordable water reform, or not? - Oh, definitely. Definitely. - Right, and that's because` you say, because of the greater voice that people can have into these entities. - Because of the scale. Yeah. - Right. OK. But what about other regions, though? So we've talked about the North, and obviously, Waipunarangi hasn't changed to the same degree that others have, so are they going to be able to affect the same kind of change, do you think, particularly for Maori communities? - I think it may be a little bit lessened in terms of impetus, but I can understand the reasoning for devolving to the` to more groups because it allows for increased representation and strength of voice, I guess. - Whose voice are you talking about? - A more localised voice. So with the increase to 10 entities, you have 10 structures repeated, as opposed to the four. In the repeating of the structure, you have the water services entity, you have the regional representative group, you have the appointment of directors, so exactly the same process for each of the 10 entities as you had for the four. That's going to cost more and it's going to mean more expense, I guess, but... it does allow for more localised input, I think, and it's been the result of consultation. So in the consultation process, which has been extensive, in spite of what people have been saying, they've obviously come to the point that they think that the groups need to be downsized a little, to enable a better balance between local input and... regional co-ordination. - What are the major water issues in Te Rarawa, Haami, and in the North? - Water quality is the biggest one. and, you know, for example, in our` throughout the north, I don't think there's one marae that has been taken account of by any council in terms of water infrastructure. And yet, our maraes ` over 100 maraes ` put through thousands, thousands of people every year. They feed them, they host them, and yet, we're not part of the water infrastructure. The water infrastructure as it exists has really been the result of an accumulation of little schemes, initiatives, that have built up over the years and over a century, and now it's just a mishmash of water management initiatives that aren't coordinated, aren't synergize, and certainly are not effective. - There's one part in particular that many of our kaumatua talk about when they talk about fresh water ` that's puna wai. It isn't covered under this new reform or even under Three Waters as it was originally scoped out. What happens to puna wai, Haami, and why isn't that included as a part of the scope of this project, of what was Three Waters, and now these water reforms? - I think puna wai have really been taonga that have been managed by Maori communities themselves, and it's a big thing to give up. So... in lieu of the absence of council and regional council infrastructural support, marae have been forced to rely on puna wai themselves, really private sources of water, and I think they ought to remain, in a way, sacred because they are generations-old. They have a whole lot of protocols around them, some of them are tapu, and so you wouldn't want to just throw them into the mix. - I guess what I mean in is many of them were taken by public works... - Well, yeah. - ...and run by councils now, which isn't part of the scope of this. Is there an opportunity perhaps for that to be addressed through this, given the greater voice that you say is there? - Definitely. I think this is just the beginning, and I think people will begin to merge their interests. I know that the Maori interest, of course, is very strong in water, and legally defined now, so we can't be ignored. And I think the Government has been pretty brave under Nanaia Mahuta to pick up the cudgel and progress it, because at the end of the day, I don't think any reform could succeed without us, because we have such an interest in it, right from the beginning to the end, you know, and so it needs us to be involved, and the central government has recognised that as mana whenua, but also recognise that` and that takes account of hapu and hapu interest, also recognise a Treaty interest. But I think the biggest issue, the biggest boon to it all, is that there is potential for iwi to invest... - Tena koe. - ...and that would be a great thing. - Waiho perangia taua iaianei. Tena koe i whai wahi mai koe ki a matou iaianei. - Kia ora. - Nga mihi nui ki a koe. That was, of, course Haami Piripi. Ara, he kaikorero, he mangai korero no te whare o Puhi, Te Tai Tokerau. E haere ake nei, e te iwi, i Te Hui a te wiki e tu mai nei ` coming up next week on The Hui ` We're with the last surviving member of the 28th Maori Battalion, Sir Robert 'Bom' Gillies. - There was about 3000 men serving in the battalion and about nearly 600, I think, didn't come home. And those memories still linger in your head. You never forget them. All the wars that are fought never solved anything. But I guess, one day, the world will wake up, I hope. - Lest we forget. - That is The Hui for this week. We look forward to seeing you next week with our Anzac Day special. That's Anzac Eve from the Auckland War Memorial Museum here in Tamaki Makaurau. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. E nga iwi, haumi e, hui e, taiki e. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 Na Te Puna Whakatongarewa Te Hui i tautoko.