Tuesday, 2 May 2023 [Volume 767] The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m. KARAKIA/PRAYERS Hon JENNY SALESA (Assistant Speaker): E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu mātou, mō ngā karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a mātou. Ka waiho i ō mātou pānga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi mātou ki te Kīngi, me te inoi atu mō te ārahitanga i roto i ō mātou whakaaroarohanga, kia mōhio ai, kia whakaiti ai tā mātou whakahaere i ngā take o te Whare nei, mō te oranga, te maungārongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Āmene. [Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.] AMENDED ANSWERS TO ORAL QUESTIONS Question No. 10 to Minister, 22 February Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Mr Speaker, I seek leave to correct an answer I gave to an oral question on 22 February 2023. SPEAKER: Is there any objection to this course of action being followed? There appears to be none. Hon JAN TINETTI: On 22 February, in answer to a supplementary question to question No. 10, I stated that: "I already have. It is a decision for the Ministry of Education." I subsequently became aware that my office did have input into the timing of the release of the data through email correspondence with officials at the Ministry of Education. This correspondence has been released under the Official Information Act. PETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS SPEAKER: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. CLERK: Petition of Zakaria Hazaranejad requesting that the House urge the Government to create a visa to allow the immediate family members of former refugees' partners to immigrate to New Zealand petition of Aly Cook requesting that the House call for a royal commission of inquiry into the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccine use in New Zealand petition of Brian Webb requesting that the House entrench water assets based upon at least 80 percent of the House to prevent the privatisation of public water assets, and tax any water that is sold overseas at $1 per litre petition of Kirstin Murray requesting that the House increase the GST threshold to $75,000 petition of Susan Durno requesting that the House pass legislation to increase community policing in Wainuiōmata. petition of Craig Dawson requesting that the House recommends the Minister of Health and the Minister of Internal Affairs urge Fire and Emergency New Zealand and St John to allow Ōmārama First Response to respond to 111 medical and personal alarm calls petition of Annette Moody requesting that the House require total transparency in invoicing by body corporates under the Unit Titles Act of all inclusions in levies petition of Huck Smith-Haeata on behalf of the Free The People Party requesting that the House urge the Government to amend the Trespass Act. SPEAKER: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers. CLERK: 2021/22 annual reports for: Capital and Coast District Health Board Health and Disability Commissioner New Zealand Conservation Authority Queen Elizabeth the Second National Trust Criminal Cases Review Commission Research and Education Advanced Network New Zealand Limited Tairāwhiti District Health Board West Coast District Health Board. long-term insights briefings for: Ministry for Primary Industries The future of New Zealand Aotearoa's food sector: Exploring global demand opportunities in the year 2050 Statistics New Zealand Aotearoa New Zealand: Empowered by data Controller and Auditor-General Draft Annual Plan 2023/24 He Pou a Rangi—Climate Change Commission Erratum to annual report for the year ending 30 June 2022. SPEAKER: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have delivered for presentation. CLERK: Reports of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on: the Business Payment Practices Bill the Department of Internal Affairs long-term insights briefing 2022 petition of Flick Electric Co. reform of New Zealand's electricity market report of the Education and Workforce Committee on the Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) Amendment Bill Business Payment Practices Bill report of the Environment Committee on the Sustainable Biofuel Obligation Bill report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Deposit Takers Bill reports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on: the Customs and Excise (Arrival Information) Amendment Bill the international treaty examination on the framework agreement on the establishment of the International Solar Alliance report of the Justice Committee on the petition of Free Speech Union: Remove clause 15 from the counter-terrorism bill report of the Officers of Parliament Committee on: the alterations of the 2022/23 Appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment the 2023/24 draft budgets for the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsman, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment. the reports of the Petitions Committee on: petition of Dan Liu: Allow anonymous birth and install safe haven baby hatches to save lives petition of Jackie Foster: Inquiry into a complaint made to the Independent Police Conduct Authority petition of Sandra Bianciardi: Urgently stop National Library from sending thousands of books to the Philippines. SPEAKER: The bills are set down for the second reading. The report of the Officers of Parliament Committee, the report on the international treaty examination, and the briefing are set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill. CLERK: Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill, introduction. SPEAKER: That bill is set down for first reading. ORAL QUESTIONS QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS Question No. 1—Finance 1. DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Prime Minister's statement that "it's not right for households to be tightening their belts if the Government doesn't too", and will he rule out introducing a new tax on capital while he is the Minister of Finance? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): To the first part of the question, I always agree with the Prime Minister. To the second part of the member's question, the Government has made a series of commitments on what we would do and what we would not do on tax this term, and those are being upheld. The Prime Minister's made clear that there will be no major new taxes in the Budget such as a capital gains tax or wealth tax. David Seymour: Why can't he match Jacinda Ardern's promise not to introduce a capital gains tax while in his current position? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I thank the member for his confidence that I will be returned as the Minister of Finance after the election. There's one more Budget to go in this term. David Seymour: How is it possible that his Government is spending $11 billion, or 68 percent, more on health and $5 billion, or 38 percent, more per year on education since 2018, but fewer kids are attending school, fewer are getting university entrance (UE), and waiting lists for operations are longer than five years ago? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Among the various suggestions that the member is making there, all of them could be challengeable. In particular, the member might want to wish away the impacts of COVID on issues like school attendance, but actually this Government has work in place to improve that significantly. David Seymour: Why would New Zealanders agree to any new Government implementing a new tax on capital when this Government has increased core Crown expenditure by 60 percent, compared with general inflation of 20 percent in the last five years, and yet the trains don't work, the roads are potholed, fewer criminals are in jail, fewer kids are attending school, and more people are queuing for operations? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is asking a hypothetical question. David Seymour: Does the Minister of Finance think it's a serious matter that he has increased expenditure by 60 percent and isn't prepared to get up and defend the performance of his Government in simple things like how many kids are attending school, how many are passing UE, how many operations are getting done, how long is the waiting list for hospitals? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member did ask a hypothetical question. I spend a lot of time in this House talking about how proud I am of the record of this Government, of the fact that we went through COVID and came out the other end in a better place than most countries around the world, with one of the lowest excess mortality rates, with our economy 6 percent larger now than it was before COVID, with more people in work, with record low unemployment, and with our net debt levels being among the lowest in the OECD with countries that we compare ourselves with. I am extremely proud of our record, Mr Seymour. David Seymour: Does the Minister of Finance believe that unrealised capital gains on assets like houses should be taxed and, if not, does he agree with David Parker, who used exactly that assumption to claim that the wealthy pay half as much tax as middle-income New Zealanders? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I refer the member to my primary answer. The Prime Minister has been clear that the upcoming Budget will not include a wealth tax or a capital gains tax. Question No. 2—Social Development and Employment 2. ANAHILA KANONGATA'A (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What support is the Government providing to help New Zealanders with their winter energy costs? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): On 1 May, the winter energy payment started rolling out, once again, to over 1 million New Zealanders. For people receiving New Zealand superannuation, a main benefit, or veteran's pension, they will receive an extra $20.46 per week if they are single with no dependent children, or an extra $31.82 per week for couples or people with children, from now until October. This is the sixth year where low-income and older New Zealanders have benefited from this Government's winter energy payment. This extra boost will provide more cost of living relief over the winter months. Anahila Kanongata'a: Who benefits from the winter energy payment? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Around 1.2 million adults receive the winter energy payment every year. The payment goes to those receiving New Zealand superannuation, a main benefit, or veteran's pension. This Government introduced the winter energy payment to boost people's incomes over winter to help with the cost of heating so that they could have a warm home, and help to prevent respiratory illnesses during the winter season. We therefore targeted the winter energy payment to older people, because they are more susceptible to ill health in winter, and beneficiaries as they are more likely to be on the lowest incomes. Anahila Kanongata'a: What difference does the winter energy payment make? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The winter energy payment provides a boost of $450 in total for single people with no dependent children, and $700 for couples or those with dependent children, over the winter months. Analysis has suggested that those who received the winter energy payment spent more on energy, were more likely to say their income meets their needs, required less hardship assistance, and experienced improvements in some health and wellbeing outcomes. On top of that, we've heard directly from people who have received it that this payment means they can afford to have a warm house and avoid getting ill. Anahila Kanongata'a: What else has the Government done to support New Zealanders with the cost of living? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We introduced the winter energy payment as part of the Families Package in 2017, which also included the Best Start tax credit and increases to the family tax credit and accommodation supplement. Since then, we have continued to increase support available to families through increasing access to childcare assistance, further increases to Working for Families, lifting the minimum wage, increasing main benefit rates, and increasing dental grants. As a result of this Government's changes, 356,000 beneficiaries will be better off by, on average, $142 per week during the 2023 winter period compared to 2017 policy settings, including 109,000 families with children who are better off by $222 per week on average. As I've said before in this House at this time of year, "Winter is Coming". Question No. 3—Prime Minister 3. CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition) to the Acting Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government's statements and actions? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Acting Prime Minister): Yes. One million New Zealanders will receive more cost of living relief through the winter energy payment. From 1 May to 1 October this year, single people with no dependent children will receive an extra $20.46 per week, while couples and people with children will receive an extra $31.82 per week. This is on top of the increase to superannuation and the veteran's pension in the past month, which saw those over 65 receive $102.84 more in total a fortnight, and a single person living alone, an extra $66.86 a fortnight. Christopher Luxon: What does she say to farmers and tradies, who are being forced by her Government to pay even more in tax whenever they buy a new ute? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It's really important to keep this issue in perspective. The Clean Car Discount has been incredibly successful in the long run. Because of the carbon emission reductions that we are able to achieve through this scheme, every New Zealander will be better off. If we don't have an initiative like this that is successful, in the longer run we can expect higher fuel prices, and that would not be beneficial for farmers or tradies. Christopher Luxon: Isn't it the case that someone buying a new Toyota Hilux will now pay an extra $2,645 in tax, meaning the total tax on a Hilux is now $4,370 just so Michael Wood can subsidise Teslas? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Again, it's really important to keep this in perspective. As New Zealanders, we have seen firsthand the impacts of climate change. We have made commitments internationally to reduce our carbon emissions. This scheme is incredibly successful. Most people, I think it's fair to say, are not out every year buying a new vehicle that will incur the tax that that member is talking about. In the longer term—in the longer term—New Zealand is better off. Christopher Luxon: Can she rule out her Government introducing a capital gains tax or a wealth tax? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yes. Christopher Luxon: Will she confirm that she will not rule out a capital gains tax or wealth tax? [Interruption] SPEAKER: Can I ask the member to—I'm going to ask this side of the House to calm down. There were at least three interjections in that question. I didn't even hear it, so I'm going to ask the—[Interruption] Yeah, and it doesn't help when we get interjections while I'm on my feet. Christopher Luxon, can you ask that question again. Christopher Luxon: So can we confirm that her Government will rule out a capital gains tax or wealth tax? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We've made it very clear that there is no intention through the Budget or for the remainder of this term to introduce a capital gains tax or a wealth tax. Every political party will have their tax policy before the next election, but that is not a matter for us to discuss here—not this term. Christopher Luxon: Does she think it's right that Kiwis are paying more than $100 million extra in tax every single day than in 2017? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Wages have gone up, and hence why there is more of a tax take. Christopher Luxon: Why will she not commit to giving income tax relief to hard-working Kiwis so they can keep more of what they earn—because isn't it their money, not yours? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We've been very clear that we will not be making any tax changes over the course of this year. What we are concerned about is that when political parties are talking about potential tax cuts, they are, effectively, also talking about taking money away from there. I think that the Opposition needs to be clear about what services they plan on cutting. Hon Damien O'Connor: Can the Acting Prime Minister give us an assurance that GST will not be increased? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We can be absolutely trusted to not increase GST. David Seymour: Does the Acting Prime Minister stand by her statement that "There are … a number of New Zealanders who are driving around with utes in Auckland where they're not always needed", and, if so, can she explain to New Zealanders what are the right and the wrong and the legitimate and the illegitimate reasons for buying and driving a ute? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I said very clearly that some in Auckland have very fair and reasonable reasons for driving around in a ute. That's what I said. But if the policy that we're talking about helps them to consider or make the transition to an electric vehicle, then why would we not continue to do that? David Seymour: If some in Auckland don't have a legitimate use for driving a ute, can the Prime Minister explain who are these people in Auckland who have a ute they shouldn't have? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I didn't say that. David Seymour: Does the Minister have confidence in her Minister of Justice Kiritapu Allan's ability to monitor and evaluate the performance of the Race Relations Commissioner, after it was revealed that the Race Relations Commissioner and his partner had donated to the Minister's campaign—back in the previous election—and she did not report it as a conflict to the Cabinet Office? If she can have confidence, can she explain how, and how low are the standards now? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The Minister of Justice has given the delegation for the Race Relations Commissioner to her Associate Minister for Justice. Christopher Luxon: How is it that this Government can find money for Teslas, consultants, and communications staff, but it just can't let Kiwis keep more of what they earn? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It is finding money to reduce carbon emissions so that we can actually respond to our international commitment to addressing climate change and what it means for New Zealand. Question No. 4—Education 4. ANGELA ROBERTS (Labour) to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has the Government made on reducing class sizes for years 4 to 8? Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Last month, I announced that this Government is reducing class sizes in the latter primary and intermediate school years to improve education outcomes for kids. By the beginning of 2025, class ratios for years 4 to 8 will move from a ratio of one teacher to 29 students to a ratio of one teacher to 28 students, and this is a meaningful start. With an extra 320 full-time teachers in primary and intermediate schools around the country, half of these teachers will be in classrooms from next year. Angela Roberts: Why is the Government focusing on reducing class sizes for years 4 to 8? Hon JAN TINETTI: Years 4 to 8 are critical learning years for our kids, with research showing that this is a time when maths and literacy achievement can begin falling behind. The 2019 National Monitoring Study of Student Achievement found that, in writing, 63 percent of students were achieving at the expected level in year 4, dropping to only 35 percent achieving as expected by year 8. For reading, the corresponding numbers were 63 percent at year 4, dropping to 56 percent by year 8. That's why we are targeting these years with more teaching resource to help turn this around. Angela Roberts: How does this support the Government's work on lifting rates of maths and literacy? Hon JAN TINETTI: Reducing the number of students in each class will take some pressure off teachers and allow them to spend more one-on-one time with each student. It means they can focus on what they do best: teaching our young people the basics well so that they can go on to succeed. Angela Roberts: What further work has been done on class sizes? Hon JAN TINETTI: Alongside the Government's immediate commitment to reducing class sizes, a ministerial advisory group will also be set up to look at class sizes over the longer term. Reductions in class sizes are resource-intensive, so we need a deeper understanding of the key areas where change is most needed and what the costs are. But we have heard from the sector that this is urgent, so I've set up this group—made up of experts—to do this work at pace. Erica Stanford: What would she say to the principal of a primary school who contacted me to say that under her proposal he will gain 0.2 of a teacher for 300 students, but will lose a staffing allocation of 0.15 of a teacher through the loss of the inquiry time staffing allocation—which she is disestablishing—which gives him one teacher for two weeks per year in two years' time? Hon JAN TINETTI: That is completely incorrect. As the member has been told in the answer to a written parliamentary question, schools do not get the inquiry time; that goes to Kāhui Ako. That is actually not correct. Question No. 5—Finance 5. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he think that New Zealanders are being fairly taxed; if not, what consideration, if any, is the Government giving to reducing the tax paid by average-wage earners? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): There is always room for improvement in the fairness of New Zealand's tax system. As the Prime Minister has said, this Government has made a series of commitments on what we would do and what we would not do on tax this term, and those are being upheld. Nicola Willis: Have Government officials been asked to provide advice on possible new taxes, such as, for example, a wealth tax on unrealised capital gains? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the Prime Minister indicated yesterday and in his speech last week, we consider a range of issues around tax on an ongoing basis. Information about those will be released at an appropriate time. Nicola Willis: How can that information be Budget-sensitive when the Prime Minister has explicitly ruled out introducing these taxes in the Budget? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I didn't say it was Budget-sensitive. Nicola Willis: Why won't he just come clean with New Zealanders about the consideration Cabinet has given to a new capital gains tax? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Governments of all shapes, sizes, and colours over the years give consideration to a range of policy issues and decide to announce those, not announce those, go ahead with them, not go ahead with them as conditions dictate. The member knows; she was an adviser to a Government who said that they would rule out increasing GST and then promptly came in and increased GST. Nicola Willis: Why, if the Minister is sincere in his commitment that the Government won't introduce new taxes, did the Cabinet, as recently as three months ago— Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I know the approach that you take around questions, but calling into question a member of the House's sincerity is something that has been ruled out on many occasions. Chris Penk: Speaking to the point of order, Sir. It was a conditional statement for rhetorical effect. It wasn't saying that the Minister wasn't sincere, it just said that if he is, then how can X, Y, Z. Hon Grant Robertson: Speaking to that point of order, conditional statements for rhetorical effect are also out of order. [Interruption] SPEAKER: When you're ready. Very good. That question is ruled out of order. Nicola Willis: Why, if the Government is committed to not introducing new taxes, was Cabinet considering a new tax as recently as three months ago? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We do not disclose discussions that take place at the Cabinet table. The member should be very careful with the kind of accusations she chooses to make. Nicola Willis: Can the Minister rule out the possibility that Government officials have been working on tax policy that will inform Labour Party manifesto? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can rule out the fact that Government officials would work on anything that was for a particular party's manifesto. Government officials work on a range of issues at different times across the parliamentary term. Any information that they do work on is, obviously, the subject of Official Information Act requests, and, in the case of things that relate to the Budget, the subject of the Budget proactive release. Nicola Willis: Why does the Minister continue to dance on the head of this particular pin and not just come clean with New Zealanders about exactly what his Government is cooking up on tax? SPEAKER: I'm going to leave it to the Minister whether he wants to respond or not, but that last bit was definitely out of order. Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Prime Minister has been crystal clear: there will be no wealth tax and no capital gains tax or no major tax changes in the Budget. That is what I am responsible for as the Minister of Finance. The member might want to consider the impact of her proposed tax policy, which would see close to $11 billion needing to be found, and, every single time, when something's put to her about what will be cut, she says, "No, it won't be cut." It doesn't add up; the member is right in the middle of Paul Goldsmith's Bermuda Triangle. Question No. 6—Finance 6. CHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central) to the Minister of Finance: Does he think that the wealthiest New Zealanders are paying their fair share of tax? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): I think there are always things that we can do to improve the fairness of our tax system. Chlöe Swarbrick: How is it fair that teachers, midwives, and checkout operators across this country pay more than double the effective tax rate of the wealthiest New Zealanders? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The information that the member is referring to came from the high-wealth individuals tax report. I want to acknowledge Minister David Parker and the Inland Revenue Department for the work that they did on what is a world-leading study in that regard. I welcome the fact that it is creating debate on the issues that the member is raising. Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree with revenue Minister, David Parker, who said—and I quote—"If income earned from capital is taxed at a lower rate than the tax people pay on their income from salaries and wages, then that tax advantage will be concentrated at the top end. This study proves [that] that is what is happening in New Zealand."? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That is a factual statement. Chlöe Swarbrick: Is he comfortable with an Aotearoa New Zealand where the wealthiest 311 families hold more wealth than the bottom 2.5 million New Zealanders? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I'm not comfortable with the level of inequality that I have seen in New Zealand, and one of the reasons I came to Parliament was to address that issue. What we have done while we have been in Parliament is we have taken great strides towards that and to making sure that we do have a fair tax system and that we have a fairer society. As I said in answer to the primary question, I believe there is always more we can do. Chlöe Swarbrick: Would he like to see someone with wealth in excess of $276 million pay a greater effective tax rate than 8.9 percent, where a nurse, for example, earning $80,000 has an effective tax rate of 22 percent? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I've said in answers to earlier questions, there will not be major tax changes in the Budget. Obviously, consideration can be given now to the report that has been produced. Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he think that the revenue from a wealth tax or a capital gains tax would allow Aotearoa to better address our approximate $100 billion infrastructure deficit in transport, health, housing, education, and climate action? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I'm extremely proud of the fact that this Government has increased year-on-year expenditure on infrastructure. We inherited a massive infrastructure deficit caused by nine years of under-investment, and we have increased that by billions of dollars. We now have a $64 billion infrastructure programme over the next few years. I believe that investment is appropriate. I would like to see that investment continue. Question No. 7—Health 7. Dr SHANE RETI (National) to the Minister of Health: Does she agree with the NZ Herald report on 30 April 2023 that there is a nursing shortage, and has she asked for advice on whether giving new nursing graduates in their first five years an effective pay rise of $4,500 a year by making student loan repayments for them would attract more Kiwis into nursing? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): In answer to the first part of the question, I agree New Zealand needs to recruit and train more nurses. In answer to the second part of the question, no, I have not commissioned advice on expanding the existing Voluntary Bonding Scheme. Dr Shane Reti: Is there a crisis in the nursing workforce? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: There is one person who is desperate to prove that there is a crisis in the nursing workforce, and resorting to misrepresenting nursing figures; when I told him that the numbers we had were not fit for the purpose he then used them for. Dr Shane Reti: Can she confirm that she had no idea how many of the 19,000 nurses she said had left employment in the public health system over five years were later reemployed, and, if so, why then did she claim on One News, "That's the number of nurses [who have] changed jobs in the last five years,"? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: It is inclusive of the number of nurses that have changed jobs. So, yes, that statement was correct. As I have said repeatedly in my answer to written parliamentary questions from him, that data is the number who have left jobs, either to change jobs within our health system or to leave. He has got himself into this mess. Dr Shane Reti: Why, when many report there is a crisis in the nursing workforce, won't she support National's policy to give nurses student loan relief in exchange for bonding for five years? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: There is already a Voluntary Bonding Scheme in place open to nurses and midwives. It is targeted. But I want to point out that there are gaps that National needs to address in their proposal if they are to stand by their claim that students are better off by $22,000. National has long opposed the Government's fee-freeze policy. That means the net benefit to those students would be much lower: $13,000, and equivalent to the Voluntary Bonding Scheme that already exists. Dr Shane Reti: How many New Zealand - trained nurses have moved to Australia in the last five years? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: We do not have that data, but we do know—we have some very clear facts about our nursing workforce. We know that the number with annual practising certificates is up and at its highest ever. We know that we have achieved historic increases in nursing pay. We have increased the pay for graduate nurses by 35 percent, and more than 40 percent for senior nurses. I'll tell you what, Dr Reti, if you want to give nurses a pay rise, give them a pay rise. Question No. 8—Immigration 8. IBRAHIM OMER (Labour) to the Minister of Immigration: What recent reports has he seen on worker and visitor arrivals into New Zealand? Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Immigration): I have some excellent news to share with the House in response to the member's question. New Zealand has welcomed over 1.6 million people to visit, study, or work in New Zealand since our border fully opened in July of last year. We've approved 110,000 workers to come to New Zealand, including nearly 55,000 workers on the Accredited Employer Work Visa and around 54,000 working holiday makers. We're also seeing encouraging numbers of tourists choosing to visit New Zealand: 1.2 million people from visa waiver countries have been granted a New Zealand Electronic Travel Authority to be able to travel to New Zealand, and an additional 220,000 visitor visa applications have been approved. Ibrahim Omer: What is behind the strong figures we are seeing in these areas? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: These figures show that New Zealand remains a highly desirable destination location for both workers and tourists. This is reflected in the OECD's recently launched Indicators of Talent Attractiveness index, which ranks the ability of countries to attract and retain different types of skilled migrants. New Zealand ranks number one for highly educated workers. It's good to see that after a period of transition as we implemented the immigration rebalance after border closures, we are now successfully attracting people with the right skills, while at the same time boosting investment in domestic skills and training, and prioritising the lifting of wages and stamping out of migrant exploitation. Ibrahim Omer: How will this benefit our economy? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: This is incredibly important at a time when there is a global labour shortage and these additional workers are invaluable for New Zealand businesses to thrive. This will also be welcome news for our tourism and hospitality sectors and will add a much-needed boost to many businesses around the country. Ibrahim Omer: What steps is the Government taking to ensure immigration settings remain fit for purpose? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Our Government's approach in immigration remains to continue to listen and work with key stakeholders—including employers, unions, and the immigration professionals who work in our sector—to help to meet our reconnection and rebalance objectives. We have shown that we are pragmatic in implementing our policies. We'll continue to carefully monitor our immigration settings to make sure we have the visitors, skills, and workers that our sectors and businesses need to sustainably grow their businesses and our economy. We'll also keep working to make sure that migrant workers are paid well and treated fairly. Question No. 9—Local Government 9. SIMON COURT (ACT) to the Minister of Local Government: Does he agree with his predecessor Hon Nanaia Mahuta's statement that "Māori have not expressed rights and interests in three waters assets over and above those as ratepayers within their respective communities of interest"; if so, does he think granting mana whenua representatives half the seats on regional representative groups for water services entities reflects the interests of all ratepayers equally? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance) on behalf of the Minister of Local Government: On behalf of the Minister, in answer to the first part of the question, yes. In answer to the second part of the question, mana whenua representatives having half the seats on the regional representative groups reflects that Māori have a special interest in water resources. This was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 2013. The member is confusing the role of regional representative groups and the ownership interests of the asset. The role of the representative group is to provide representation to appoint a competency-based board that would run the entity and provide strategic advice. Simon Court: Can the Minister explain how he made the leap from a court case in which Bill English testified that the recognition of rights and interests in fresh water and geothermal resources must by definition "involve mechanisms that relate to the on-going use of those resources, and may include decision-making roles in relation to care, protection, use, access and allocation, and/or charges or rentals for use." to the conclusion that mana whenua should have half the seats on regional representative groups despite being 17 percent of the population? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: On behalf of the Minister, I simply repeat what I said towards the end of my primary answer: the member is confusing the role of regional representative groups and ownership of assets. Simon Court: Does the Minister believe that other ratepayers within communities of interest, including irrigators, farmers, and manufacturers deserve representation on regional representative groups for water service entities? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Government has made the decision that the regional representative groups should reflect local government and mana whenua on the basis of the interests previously outlined. Simon Court: What other factors, in addition to 50:50 representative arrangements, support Standard & Poor's conclusion that water service entities would achieve balance sheet separation from local authorities for the purpose of credit rating assessment? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The concern that Standard & Poor's have expressed is that if, for example—as I've seen some other parties advocate for—these were council-controlled organisations, that does not create the level of balance sheet separation. Simon Court: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very clear. I don't believe the Minister addressed it. The Minister has answered in a reply to a written question that there are other factors in addition to co-governance arrangements, and my question to the Minister is: what are those other factors? SPEAKER: And the Minister has addressed it. Have you got any further questions? David Seymour: Point of order. The Minister simply commented that he didn't think other parties' policies would work. He hasn't talked about any other potential stakeholders or interest holders that might somehow help with balance sheet separation at all. SPEAKER: Well, I think you should go back and listen and read Hansard when it comes out because, in my opinion—and I remain with my opinion—the question was addressed. Question No. 10—Forestry 10. ANNA LORCK (Labour—Tukituki) to the Minister of Forestry: What recent announcement has he made on how New Zealand's forestry can help grow the economy and contribute to climate change response? Hon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Forestry): Last Thursday I spoke at the Wood Processors and Manufacturers Association conference where I announced on behalf of the Government a $57 million fund that will enable the Government to partner with the wood processing sector so that together we can process more logs on shore. This fund will support feasibility projects through a catalyst fund, and provide capital support through an accelerator fund. This announcement will help us achieve the objectives of this Government's Forestry Industry Transformation Plan to support our economic plan to build a high value, high wage, low emissions economy. The fund will open on 3 July and work is currently under way to engage all interested parties. Anna Lorck: What is the significance of this announcement? Hon PEENI HENARE: There is huge potential in the wood processing sector and this Government is here to grow this potential. This fund is a kick-start to encourage this sector to process more logs onshore, and help move the sector from volume to value to lift our economic performance and resilience, support our climate change response, and create high wage jobs in our regions. Anna Lorck: How will the announcement support the economy and contribute to the Government's climate change response? Hon PEENI HENARE: In 2021, wood product manufacturing plus pulp and paper contributed around $3.8 billion of our GDP. Wood processing and manufacturing alone makes up around 40 percent of this figure. It is estimated that this funding support could see over $500 million of additional GDP over the life of the funds' investments. These investments will deliver better outcomes for workers, families, communities, and regions to support a more productive economy. Current projections will see hundreds of jobs generated from the additional capacity created by the fund. In addition, this fund will help meet our climate change goals. For those who don't know, wood products store carbon and delay carbon dioxide being released back to the atmosphere. Te Uru Rākau - New Zealand Forest Service modelling indicates that processing an additional 1 million cubic metres of logs annually could reduce our emissions by 7.4 megatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent by 2050. We will also see increased onshore processing that produces sawmilling residues that can be turned into a range of biofuels and other products, which contributes to reducing our emissions. Anna Lorck: What feedback is the Minister hearing from the sector about this announcement? Hon PEENI HENARE: Feedback from the sector has been extremely positive. Techlam New Zealand managing director, Brett Hamilton, said it was encouraging to see that this Government is listening. Wood Processors and Manufacturers Association chairman, John Eastwood, said the Minister's announcement was a really positive step. He said investing in lifting productivity in the sector was really important, "It's about considering how we can maximise every fibre we have in our forestry profile. It's not just about finding more efficient sources, it's about making sure that we are using every aspect of our tree in our economy." Question No. 11—Transport 11. SIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga) to the Minister of Transport: What is the total amount of subsidies the Government has paid out to Tesla owners through the Clean Car Discount scheme, and how many Teslas have been purchased through the scheme? Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport): The Government's Clean Car Discount scheme has been an electrifying success and I thank the member for his ongoing interest and the spotlight he shines on it. Since the discount came into effect last year, 111,000 low-emission vehicles have been registered in New Zealand—over 82,000 of these in 2022 alone. Over 88,000 of these purchases have been supported by the discount. Across the programme we've supported Kiwis to purchase around 74,000 Daihatsus, Fords, Hondas, Hyundais, Mazdas, Mitsubishis, Nissans, Subarus, Suzukis, Toyotas, and Kias, making up about 84 percent of total vehicles, paying out over $200 million—around 71 percent of total rebates, on these vehicles. That's over 35,000 more than the last time the member asked me this question in October. In comparison, the discount has supported the purchase of about 6,157 Teslas, less than 7 percent of total vehicles, by paying about $52 million, or 19 percent, of rebates. Stats New Zealand today announced that imports of fully electric vehicles more than doubled during the 12 months to March 2023, a feat that has only been possible due to the Clean Car Discount. Simeon Brown: Point of order. My primary question was in relation to how much has been paid out to Tesla owners through the Clean Car Discount scheme. The number he gave me was from 1 April last year. The Clean Car Discount scheme came into effect on 1 July 2021. Hon Mark Mitchell: Being sneaky. SPEAKER: We don't need a commentary. I'm listening really carefully to the point of order. Simeon Brown: And, in fact, I asked the exact same question last year and he did give me the number on 27 October last year, which was for the entire period. And if you look at the New Zealand Transport Agency website, it talks about the Clean Car Discount scheme starting on 1 July 2021. Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Speaking to the point order, Mr Speaker, if you'd like me to answer on the point of order, the member is referring to two different time periods. The full Clean Car Discount scheme, which was brought into effect via legislation in this House, came into effect from 1 April 2022 and those are the figures to which I refer. The figures that the member is referring to was a partial start of the scheme that occurred from 1 July 2021 through which discounts only applied to fully electric vehicles, but the full Clean Car Discount scheme was not in effect at that time. SPEAKER: My ruling for this is that I will listen carefully. You've got three supplementaries. If, at the end of it, I don't think that has been answered, I will give you an extra supplementary, provided that your supplementaries in the meantime are in order. Simeon Brown: How many Teslas have been subsidised under the Clean Car Discount schemes and Clean Car Discounts that this Government has been offering since 1 July 2021, and how much is that represented in subsidies for people buying Teslas? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I'll just repeat the information that I gave in the previous point of order, and I will address the member's question. The Clean Car Discount scheme fully came into effect from 1 April 2022. That is a scheme that was brought into effect via legislation that was passed through this House. The Government did apply discounts to zero emissions vehicles only from 1 July 2022. That did include Teslas during that period. If the member is asking specifically about the total amount of discounts provided since that period, then the number is $83 million applying to 9,730 of those vehicles. Simeon Brown: Does he think spending $83 million subsidising wealthy people to purchase Teslas represents good value for money during a cost of living crisis? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I do believe that it is good value for money for the Government to invest in initiatives that reduce our carbon emissions during a climate emergency. The Clean Car Discount scheme has turned New Zealand from one of the world's worst markets for importing the dirtiest vehicles in the world to one of the best markets for importing clean vehicles into our country. That has meant that the average emissions of vehicles coming into New Zealand have decreased by 14 percent over that period, that over 100,000 New Zealanders have gotten into cleaner vehicles, and that New Zealanders right across the income ranges have gained access to cleaner vehicles, which cost less to run. There was once a time in the National Party when members on that side actually supported action on climate. Unfortunately, it's not a rare misstep that that member is opposed to it; it has now become the cultural norm in the National Party—a party of modern-day climate denialism. SPEAKER: I'll give the member an—order! I will give that extra question. Simeon Brown: Thank you, Mr Speaker. So can the Minister confirm that, as part of the changes made today, he is increasing the taxes on tradies and farmers purchasing utes so they can do their jobs, so that he can then hand out millions of dollars to people purchasing expensive Teslas; and does he agree that this is just another kick in the guts for our hard-working farmers and tradies? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I recognise that the National Party and the member opposite wish to turn every policy that is about addressing climate change into a tacky little culture war, but our Government is actually focused on practical measures that reduce emissions across our transport sector. Of course, what the member is trying to do here is present the Clean Car Discount as a policy that only applies to those purchasing a vehicle like a Tesla, and that is completely wrong. For example, the biggest make of vehicles that has attracted both the largest number of discounts and the highest total value of discounts have in fact been Toyotas. The two most commonly sold vehicles that have attracted a discount under the Clean Car Discount have been Toyota models that sell for under $20,000. Ours is a Government which is getting on with reducing transport sector emissions. We will keep doing that while the National Party continues to wallow in their lazy climate change denialism. Simeon Brown: Who is creating the culture war, the National Party who says that Tesla owners shouldn't be subsidised for purchasing expensive vehicles or the Deputy Prime Minister, who said this morning on the AM Show, "There's also a number of New Zealanders … who are driving around with utes in Auckland where they're not necessarily needed for practical reasons", and, if so, what exactly makes a ute necessary for practical reasons? Hon MICHAEL WOOD: In addressing the first part of the member's question, I would most certainly say it is the National Party which, effectively, takes one of the most significant issues of our time, which is the urgent need to take action on climate, which criticises every single initiative which reduces emissions, and offers absolutely nothing in return. In 2023, when communities up and down our country have been devastated by climate change - driven extreme weather events, for the main Opposition party of this country to oppose any and all climate action for cheap political gain is a disgrace and an embarrassment to them, and certainly an embarrassment to some members on their backbenches who once led a more progressive climate change policy from that party. Question No. 12—Oceans and Fisheries 12. TĀMATI COFFEY (Labour) to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: What recent announcement has she made regarding transformation in the fishing sector? Hon RACHEL BROOKING (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries): Last week, I was pleased to announce public consultation on the draft Fisheries Industry Transformation Plan. This was my first announcement as Minister for Oceans and Fisheries. This plan intends to transform the fishing sector so that we can collectively do a better job of protecting the environment while providing more jobs and ensuring people earn more money. This plan sits alongside several recent and proposed regulatory changes to strengthen the management of fisheries and manage related environmental impacts. The draft plan is open for public consultation until 11 June, and I encourage the public and interested stakeholders to have their say on this important Industry Transformation Plan. Tāmati Coffey: Why do we need this Industry Transformation Plan? Hon RACHEL BROOKING: The plan is necessary because the sector is experiencing a number of challenges, including change in the marine environment, an ageing inshore vessel fleet, difficulties attracting and retaining workers, and increasing cost pressures. This draft plan outlines a way forward for the future of the commercial fishing industry built around innovation, sustainability, and partnership. It builds on promising initiatives already under way to develop precision fishing gear and seafood-derived bioproducts. On top of all this, consumers both locally and globally continue to demand high-quality and sustainably sourced seafood. Tāmati Coffey: Who has had input into the draft plan thus far? Hon RACHEL BROOKING: This draft fishing industry plan has been put together by representatives of the fishing industry with environmental groups, iwi representatives, scientists, unions, and the food sector. This plan is focused on supporting fishers to successfully navigate the changes the fishing industry faces to increase environmental performance and drive value so that this important industry remains sustainable and competitive over the long term. Hon Eugenie Sage: Congratulations to the Minister. Does she agree with comments by Greenpeace Aotearoa that we cannot rely on technology to avoid the destructive impacts of bottom trawling on fragile habitats such as seamounts in the Hauraki Gulf and that the Government must take action? Hon RACHEL BROOKING: I look forward to the submissions from Greenpeace on the transformation plan and note that this is a high-level strategy document about modernising the fishing industry and sparking these conversations. Tāmati Coffey: What are some of the opportunities that this draft plan presents? Hon RACHEL BROOKING: There are multiple opportunities across a range of industries that this plan presents. It will help expand medical, cosmetic, and nutraceutical products from seafoods so we can earn more without catching more. It will also help identify new technologies, fishing gear, and practices to reduce the impact fishing has on the seafloor and protected species, and it will help develop skilled jobs for New Zealanders and ways to earn more from the fish that we catch. URGENT DEBATES DECLINED Immigration New Zealand—Dawn Raids SPEAKER: Members, I have received a letter from Teanau Tuiono and Ricardo Menéndez March seeking to debate, under Standing Order 399, reports of recent dawn raids conducted by Immigration New Zealand against visa overstayers. While arrests resulting from early-morning raids have occurred from at least July 2022, the requirement of "recent occurrence" depends upon when it becomes publicly known, so I consider this requirement has been met—Speakers' rulings 204/6. In considering the application for an urgent debate, while there is ministerial responsibility, it is also relevant whether there are other parliamentary means of debating the subject. In this instance, the Minister of Immigration is scheduled to attend the annual review debate tomorrow afternoon, where this matter can be debated—therefore, the application is declined. MEMBER VACANCY Mt Albert Electoral District—Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House): I move, That under section 131(b) of the Electoral Act 1993, a vacancy in the Mt Albert Electoral District having arisen and the House having been informed that a general election is to be held within six months of the occurrence of the vacancy, no writ be issued for the election of a member of Parliament for that Electoral District to supply the vacancy occasioned by the resignation of Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern. Motion agreed to.