TENA TATAU KATOA, I'M REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, NAU MAI KI NEWSHUB NATION. ON THE PROGRAMME TODAY ` HOW FAR WILL TE PATI MAORI GO TO BECOME THE POWERBROKERS THIS ELECTION? CO-LEADER RAWIRI WAITITI JOINS US LIVE. WITH THE E.U PLAYING HARDBALL AND RISING POWER INDIA IGNORING US, WHAT'S NEXT FOR TRADE MINISTER DAMIEN O'CONNOR? AND YOU THINK YOU'VE GOT BUS TROUBLES? TRY WAITING SIX HOURS ` A SPECIAL REPORT FROM FINN HOGAN. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND KITTY WASASALA. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 A POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE THIS WEEK? TE PATI MAORI STRIKING ON WEDNESDAY, SECURING A STUNNING DEFECTION BY LABOUR MINISTER ` AND MP FOR IKAROA-RAWHITI MEKA WHAITIRI. IT BLINDSIDED THE PRIME MINISTER WHO WAS ON HIS WAY TO LONDON AND THE LABOUR CAUCUS WHO WERE LEFT TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE HELL HAD JUST HAPPENED ` A DIFFICULT AND AWKWARD TASK BECAUSE THEY CLEARLY HAD NO IDEA. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT A WILD WEEK IN POLITICS. A MEGA MEKA BOMBSHELL. I HAVE RESIGNED FROM THE NEW ZEALAND LABOUR PARTY. IT'S BEEN CONFIRMED? IT'S BEEN CONFIRMED. UM, GOOD LUCK TO HER. I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HER YET. HE WILL HAVE SEEN THE ANNOUNCEMENT. SHE NEVER RUNG ME OR CONTACTED ME, SO THAT WAS DISAPPOINTING. I CERTAINLY SAID, 'ARE YOU SURE?' SHE SAID, 'DO YOU WANT TO COME TO THE MAORI PARTY?' AND WE SAID, 'I THINK WE BOTH SAID NO.' SO THERE'S AN EARTHQUAKE IN THE MAORI POLITICAL WORLD. AND AS YET, NO ONE'S REALLY ENTIRELY CLEAR WHAT MEKA IS DOING OR WHY SHE'S DOING IT. IT'S MY CALLING. IT'S WHO I AM AS A MAORI. SHE'S UNLOCKED THE SHACKLES AND EMANCIPATED ME. BUT WHAITIRI REMAINS IN LIMBO ` NO LONGER WITH LABOUR, NOT YET WITH TE PATI MAORI. SINCE THEN, WHAITIRI AND TE PATI MAORI LEADERSHIP HAVE SAID VERY LITTLE. UNTIL NOW THAT IS ` BECAUSE CO-LEADER RAWIRI WAITITI JOINS ME LIVE IN THE STUDIO. MORENA RAWIRI! MORENA, REBECCA. WHAT A WEEK. WHAT A WEEK, YEAH. HOW ARE YOU FEELING ` RIDING HIGH? WE ARE FEELING POSITIVE. WE WILL CONTINUE TO... TO BE THE MAORI PARTY THAT EVERYBODY EXPECTS. WE'RE CHALLENGING THE STATUS QUO. WE CALL FOR INSTITUTIONAL RACISM TO BE WIPED OUT ACROSS ALL POLITICAL SPECTRUMS AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. BUT WE WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR CONSTITUTIONAL TRANSFORMATION, AND THAT'S OUR GOAL. THAT'S THE WORK. SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK WITH MEKA. WHY DID SHE LEAVE? WELL, YOU HEARD HER IN HER SPEECH ON HER OWN MARAE. SHE'S GIVEN 20 YEARS TO THE LABOUR PARTY, AS A WORKER FOR PAREKURA HOROMIA AND AS AN MP IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, AND IT WAS TIME FOR HER TO COME HOME. SHE SPOKE TO THE PEOPLE WHO MATTERED, HER FAMILY AND HER PEOPLE, AND HAS FOLLOWED HER PUKU, AND HER WAIRUA SAID IT WAS TIME TO COME HOME AND THE MAORI PARTY WILL ALWAYS BE A WAHAROA FOR OUR PEOPLE TO COME HOME. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID. IT WAS PERSONAL FOR HER. IT WASN'T LIKE SHE WAS TREATED BADLY BY THE LABOUR PARTY. SHE HASN'T BURNT ANYBODY ON THE WAY OUT LIKE MANY OTHER MPS DO. SO HER THING WAS ABOUT HER OWN FEELING. PAREKURA SAID THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A MAORI PARTY, AND OUR PEOPLE COME HOME TO IT. IT HAPPENED IN QUITE A DRAMATIC WAY. I SUPPOSE THESE THINGS ARE ALWAYS DRAMATIC BY THEIR VERY NATURE. WHY NOT SPEAK TO THE PRIME MINISTER? EVEN IF NOT BEFORE? IT MIGHT NOT BE STRATEGICALLY WISE TO DO THAT. WHAT ABOUT THAT RESPECT AND RELATIONSHIP THERE? IT'S ONLY BEEN FOUR DAYS. THE PRIME MINISTER IS CURRENTLY IN LONDON. SURELY HE CAN PICK UP THE PHONE. WE KNOW HE WILL BE VERY BUSY WITH THE CORONATION TODAY. IN REGARDS TO HER MEKA SPEAKING TO PEOPLE, SHE SPOKE TO HER FAMILY AND CONSTITUENTS, HER SUPPORTERS. AND THEY SAID IT WAS TIME. IT'S ALWAYS A HARD DECISION FOR ANYBODY TO MAKE, AND I COMMEND HER FOR THAT TO FOLLOW HER PUKU AND WAIRUA. SHE HAS COME BACK TO HER WHAKAPAPA. HOW WOULD THE PEOPLE OF IKAROA-RAWHITI FEEL? THEY'VE JUST LOST THEIR CYCLONE RECOVERY MINISTER. IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT TIME FOR THE REGION. WHANAU ARE STRUGGLING. IN THE POLITICAL WORLD, IN TERMS OF BEING MAORI, IN OPPOSITION OR GOVERNMENT, ESPECIALLY TE PATI MAORI AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME, WE HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING, WE'VE ACTUALLY GAINED TO ENSURE THEY GET THE RIGHT RESOURCING GOING INTO THE RECOVERY. MEKA WILL PLAY A PART, AS BOTH DEBBIE AND I, IN REGARDS TO PUSHING THE GOVERNMENT TO ENSURING IT GIVES EQUITABLE AND EQUAL FUNDING TO THOSE ORGANISATIONS THAT MATTER AND NOT BACK INTO GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THAT CONTINUE TO HOLD ON TO FUNDING THROUGH BUREAUCRATIC SYSTEMS THAT THEY OPERATE UNDER. THIS IS ABOUT GIVING TO MAORI COMMUNITIES WHO KNOW THEIR COMMUNITIES AND WHAT THE ISSUES ARE. THOSE COMMUNITIES HAVE JUST LOST A MINISTER FROM CABINET ADVOCATING ON THEIR BEHALF AT THE TOP LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT. THEY'VE LOST ABOUT THREE MINISTERS IN THAT PARTICULAR SPACE. WHAT WE NEED IS A STRONG OPPOSITION TO ENSURE THAT THE GOVERNMENT PUSHES FOR MORE EQUITABLE AND EQUAL RESOURCES HEADING INTO TE TAIRAWHITI. I KNOW THERE'S A ROAD BEING PUT INTO NGATI POROU. THAT WAS DRIVEN BY LOCALS, LOCAL CONTRACTORS, BY LOCAL KNOWLEDGE AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED IS MORE RESOURCING INTO LOCAL KNOWLEDGE AND LOCAL SOLUTIONS. SO YOU'RE SAYING IT WON'T REALLY AFFECT IKAROA-RAWHITI IN THE NEXT FIVE MONTHS IF THEY DON'T HAVE MEKA AT THAT TOP TABLE? IN ACTUAL FACT, YOU WILL HAVE MEKA IN OPPOSITION TO MAKE SURE THEY PUT THE RIGHT RESOURCING IN THERE. SHE WOULD KNOW FIRSTHAND WHETHER IT WAS RIGHT OR WRONG. AND IF IT WAS RIGHT, I DON'T THINK I'D BE LEAVING ANYWHERE IF IT WAS GETTING THE PROPER RESOURCES. THAT WOULD BE ME. IN TERMS OF HEADING FORWARD, I THINK MEKA IS IN A PRIME SPOT TO ENSURE THAT IKAROA-RAWHITI GETS THE FUNDING IT NEEDS TO BY PUTTING PRESSURE ON THIS GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE THEY DO THAT. FROM THE OUTSIDE? ABSOLUTELY. IS SHE A MAORI PARTY MP NOW? THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE CONFUSION. AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED, SHE IS. YOUR ELECTION CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED THIS WEEK WITH THIS BIG SPLASH. A LOT OF HEAT, NOISE, A LOT OF POLITICAL THEATRE AROUND IT. WHAT IS THE STRATEGY? WHAT ARE YOU GUNNING FOR? IS IT THE MAORI SEATS? IS IT THE WIDER ELECTORATE, OR THE PARTY VOTE? WE'RE GOING FOR ALL OF IT THIS TIME. (BOTH LAUGH) SO WE'VE GOT BETTER AT OUR POLITICAL STRATEGY. THERE IS DEFINITELY A TWO-TICK CAMPAIGN HEADING YOUR AWAY. THE PARTY'S HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT STANDING PEOPLE IN KEY ELECTORATES, GENERAL ELECTORATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THOSE WHO HAVE HIGHER MAORI POPULATION. AS YOU'VE SEEN IN THE POLLS, YOU'VE SEEN A JUMP IN THE PARTY VOTE FOR TE PATI MAORI, AND IT'S IN A SPACE WITH NEVER BEEN BEFORE ` ABOVE THE THRESHOLD, IN TERMS OF WHERE WE ARE. WE ARE ELATED WITH WHERE THE PARTY IS HEADED TO ` THE TRAJECTORY OF SUPPORT, NOT JUST BY MAORI, BUT TANGATA TIRITI. OUR POLICIES ARE FOR PICKING UP WHO ARE STRUGGLING AT THIS TIME. IT'S RESONATING WITH PEOPLE. TRANSLATING` THERE'S MOMENTUM AROUND THE PARTY. THERE'S HEAT AND NOISE AROUND THE PARTY. YOU'VE BEEN GOOD AT DRUMMING THAT UP OUT IN SOCIAL MEDIA AND THOSE OTHER NETWORKS. HOW DO YOU TRANSLATE THAT INTO GAINS IN PARLIAMENT? DO HAVE THE MACHINE REQUIRED TO GET VOTES FROM THOSE PEOPLE? I THINK A SOCIAL MEDIA IS THE NEW DOOR-KNOCKING FOR TE PATI MAORI. IT'S WHERE EVERYBODY IS. NOBODY WANTS ANYONE KNOCKING ON THEIR DOOR ANY MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO TELEVISION, SOCIAL MEDIA AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IN TERMS OF POLICY GAINS, I DISAGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A LOOK AT THE POLICY MANIFESTO OF MAORI PARTY, AND YOU LOOK AT THE LABOUR ONE, YOU WILL FIND THAT MANY OF THE POLICY GAINS THIS YEAR HAVE COME FROM OUR MANIFESTO. IT'S NOT COME FROM THE LABOUR MANIFESTO; IT'S COME FROM THE MAORI PARTY MANIFESTO. WE INTRODUCED THE MATARIKI BILL BACK IN 2009. IF YOU HAVE A LOOK AT THE MAORI WARDS, WE CAMPAIGNED FOR THAT. WE CAMPAIGNED ON THE MAORI HEALTH AUTHORITY; THEY DID NOT. WE DON'T CARE WHO TAKES OUR POLICIES OVER THE LINE, AS LONG AS THEY ARE OVER THE LINE AND OUR PEOPLE ARE BENEFITTING FROM IT. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE, WITH THE NEW RECENT POLLING, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT YOU COULD BE THE KINGMAKER. BUT NATIONAL RULED OUT WORKING WITH TE PATI MAORI. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO ME THAT YOU HAVE A LOT IN COMMON WITH THE NATIONAL PARTY OR ACT. WE'VE SAID THAT WE WON'T WORK WITH ANY PARTY THAT ISN'T COMMITTED TO CREATING TIRITI-CENTRED AOTEAROA. THAT'S THE POSITION. THAT'S UP TO NATIONAL AND ACT TO LOOK AT HOW THEY WAY WANT TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND CREATE SOME KIND OF DIALOGUE. CANCELLING OUT THE MOST CONSISTENT PARTY OF THE LAST 12 POLLS SITTING IN THEIR KINGMAKER POSITION, I DON'T THINK THAT'S VERY POLITICALLY SAVVY TO MAKE THOSE COMMENTS AS WE HEAD INTO OCTOBER 15. WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS PUT YOU WITH LABOUR AND GREENS. THEY ARE TRYING TO UNDERMINE THIS KINGMAKER ROLE BY SAYING THEY WON'T WORK WITH YOU. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS THE STRATEGY, BUT IT IS NOT WORKING. ANOTHER POLL JUST CAME OUT THE OTHER DAY. I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT MAORI PARTY IS NOT LEFT OR RIGHT. WE ARE MAORI, AND WE ARE STRAIGHT UP THE GUTS. IF YOU LOOK AT A WHARE TIPUNA, YOU'LL SEE ONE MAIHI ON ONE SIDE AND ONE MAIHI ON THE OTHER. THAT COULD BE NATIONAL, LABOUR, BUT WE ARE THE KORURU ON THAT MARAE, WHICH IS THE CARVED POST IN THE MIDDLE. AND WE WILL SIT THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE SACREDNESS SITS. WE WILL CONTINUE TO SIT THERE. COS WE'RE MAORI, AND WE'RE STRAIGHT UP THE GUTS. WHAT IS THE DREAM? WHAT IS THE DREAM POSITION FOR YOU COME OCTOBER? THE DREAM POSITION FOR US IS TO GET THE POLICIES GAINS THAT OUR PEOPLE DESERVE. HOW WILL YOU DO THAT? WE WILL DO THAT FROM BEING THE KORURU OF THAT WHARE. WE WILL HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS COME OCTOBER, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT MAORI PARTY WILL BE THE KINGMAKER. DO YOU WANT TO BE INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT OR SIT ON THE CROSSBENCHES AND SORT OF VOTE AND HOLD THE BALANCE OF POWER? I THINK THE BALANCE OF POWER IS A DIFFERENT SPACE TO BE IN. I THINK THE BALANCE OF POWER IS NOT SITTING ON THE CROSSBENCHES OR NOT SITTING IN GOVERNMENT. THIS IS WHAT CONSTITUTIONAL TRANSFORMATION LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS WHERE THE MAORI PARTY STRATEGY IS LOOKING AT, AND WE ARE THE KORURU ON THAT WHARE. WE'RE NOT LEFT; WE'RE NOT RIGHT. WE'RE MAORI, AND WE'RE STRAIGHT UP THE GUTS. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU DO WANT TO HOLD THE BALANCE OF POWER IN AN ONGOING CAPACITY IN THE NEXT PARLIAMENT. ABSOLUTELY. IT'S NOT THAT WE WANT TO; IT'S THAT WE'RE THERE NOW. WE ARE THERE NOW IN THE POLLS, WE ARE THERE IN TERMS OF THE TRAJECTORY OF WHERE TE PATI MAORI IS, AND WE WILL GO TO DO THE WORK ON THE GROUND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAINTAIN THE CONFIDENCE THAT WE HAVE IN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE POLLING AND SUPPORTING US AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE IN A TECHNICAL SENSE? IT SOUNDS A BIT LIKE CHAOS. (LAUGHS) WHICH KNOW THE MAORI PARTY SEEMS TO THRIVE IN. I WOULDN'T CALL IT CHAOS. I WOULD CALL IT DEVELOPMENT. TE PATI MAORI ARE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP IN REGARDS TO THE WAY WE DO POLITICS. IT WILL COME AS A SURPRISE BECAUSE WE DON'T STATUS QUO. WE DON'T WANT WHAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORKED FOR OUR PEOPLE. OUR PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING TO PUT BREAD AND BUTTER ON THEIR TABLES. THIS IS THE WORST WE'VE SEEN IN TERMS OF THE COST OF LIVING FOR OUR PEOPLE IN DECADES. SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS. BECAUSE STUPIDITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. CAN YOU RUN A GOVERNMENT LIKE THAT? I THINK WE CAN ENSURE THAT THE RIGHT THING IS DONE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING OUT THERE. WHAT IF NOTHING GETS DONE? EVERYTHING WILL GET DONE BECAUSE NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE SO FAR. DO YOU RESPECT PARLIAMENT? I RESPECT THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE CHANGE IN THAT SPACE. WE'VE GOTTA WORK OUR WAY ACROSS ALL SECTORS. WHETHER IT'S IN PARLIAMENT, IN COUNCIL, ACROSS GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS, WHETHER IT'S EVEN IN OUR OWN ORGANISATIONS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY RESPECT, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THE JOB THAT I HAVE AND THE JOB THAT I'VE BEEN ENTRUSTED TO DO WHICH IS TO GET POLICY WINS FOR OUR PEOPLE. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU RAIL AGAINST A SYSTEM THAT IS A BIG PART OF YOUR KAUPAPA. BUT HOW DO YOU RAIL AGAINST THE SYSTEM AND ALSO OPERATE INSIDE IT WITHOUT LETTING PEOPLE DOWN? THIS IS A CHALLENGING A SYSTEM THAT IS CONTINUED TO LET PEOPLE DOWN, SO IF WE DON'T LOOK AT INNOVATIVE WAYS TO CREATE CHANGE IN A PLACE THAT HAS CREATED HUGE TRAUMA, INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA AND OPPRESSION OF OUR PEOPLE, AND IF WE DON'T ADDRESS THOSE THINGS` IF WE DON'T START BEING CREATIVE IN THIS PARTICULAR SPACE, THEN WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THE HARM AND CONTINUE TO THE INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA THAT OUR PEOPLE FACE. WE ARE IN A SPACE WHERE WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT A TANGATA WHENUA APPROACH TO THE ORANGA OF OUR PEOPLE. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WHEN WE NEGOTIATE HOW THIS GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO WORK. THERE HAS BEEN THESE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE MAORI PARTY IN THE PAST. HONE HARAWIRA WAS ON A SIMILAR TRACK WHEN HE FORMED MANA. BUT HIS ASPIRATIONS FOR HIS PEOPLE OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT ` HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO TRANSLATE THEM INTO REAL GAINS INSIDE THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. HOW WILL YOU DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY? I THINK HE HAS MADE HUGE GAINS. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE BEING THE CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR HONE, BUT IF YOU HAVE A LOOK AT THE LUNCHES IN SCHOOLS, THE SMOKING BAN BY 2025 ` THOSE ARE ALL POSITIVE THINGS STILL IN THE LINE OF POLITICAL PRIORITY RIGHT NOW. WE'VE ALREADY HAD HUGE GAINS IN THIS PARTICULAR SPACE. WE CAMPAIGNED ON THE MAORI AUTHORITY. WE CAMPAIGNED ON MAORI WARDS. WE CAMPAIGNED ON MATARIKI HOLIDAY. WE'VE CAMPAIGNED ON TAKING GST OFF FOOD, WHICH OVER 70% OF NEW ZEALANDERS SUPPORT. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WITH` WE'VE GOT A PETITION TO CHANGE THE NAME TO AOTEAROA. 70,000 PEOPLE SUPPORTED THAT. THERE'S HUGE GAINS THAT MAORI PARTY HAVE MADE IN A VERY SHORT TIME. SOME OF THE GAINS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE HUGE STRUCTURAL CHANGES. YOU WANT A SEPARATE JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR MAORI. THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM LUNCHES IN SCHOOLS. IT'S VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE DIFFERENT. WHEN YOU ARE THE MOST INCARCERATED PEOPLE PER CAPITA IN THE WORLD` 54% MAORI MALE, 67% FOR MAORI FEMALE` WE MUST LOOK AT A DIFFERENT SYSTEM. WE MUST LOOK AT HEALING AND KEEPING OUR PEOPLE SAFE. ONE THING IS KEEPING UP PEOPLE SAFE, AND THE OTHER IS ABOUT HEALING OUR PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA THAT'S BEEN CAUSED BY SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS AND THEIR RECKLESS POLICIES. THEY HAVE IMPACTED MAORI. WE NEED TO LOOK AT A SYSTEM THAT IS ABOUT TRANSITIONING THE TRAUMA THAT OUR PEOPLE FACE BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND FAMILIES. THAT IS A REALISTIC THING? IT HAS TO BE REALISTIC. OTHERWISE WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HARM OUR PEOPLE AND CONTINUE TO INCARCERATE OUR PEOPLE WITHOUT THE PROPER HEALING, WITHOUT THE PROPER PROCESSES PUT AROUND OUR FAMILY, WHO ARE IN PRISON, AND WHEN THEY COME OUT HOW DO WE TRANSITION BACK INTO THEIR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES SO THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTED AND EVERYBODY IS SAFE? NOT ONLY THEM, BUT THEIR WHANAU AS WELL. YOU'VE GOT $600m DOWN FOR THIS NEW MAORI JUSTICE SYSTEM. WHERE IS THAT MONEY GONNA COME FROM? THAT'S ABOUT THE BUDGET OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AT THE MOMENT. THAT'S AN EASY ANSWER. IT'S GOING TO COME FROM TAXING THE WEALTHY. WE NEED TO TAKE THE GST OFF FOOD TO ALLOW OUR PEOPLE TO PUT BREAD AND BUTTER ON THEIR TABLE. BUT CAPITAL GAINS TAX ` IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD THAT NEW ZEALAND IS ONE OF THE ONLY COUNTRIES IN THE OECD THAT DOESN'T HAVE CAPITAL GAINS TAX. THEN YOU HAVE AN EMPTY HOUSE TAX. THERE'S 199,000 EMPTY HOUSES HERE IN AOTEAROA. WHY AREN'T WE PUTTING TAXES ON THOSE WHO OWN THOSE HOUSES? MANY OWNED BY FOREIGN OWNERSHIP. IF I WAS LIVING OVERSEAS AND HAD THE MONEY, I WOULD BUY A HOUSE HERE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TAX ON IT. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET YOUR MONEY FROM TO FUND SOME OF THESE PARTICULAR PROJECTS. THEY ARE AMBITIOUS, BUT I THINK THEY'RE NEEDED, AND WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW WE ACHIEVE THAT. I'M LOOKING AT HAVING MANY MORE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU IN THE RUN-UP TO THE ELECTION. CONGRATULATIONS ON A BIG WEEK. THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON THE NATION. THANK YOU. KIA ORA. WE'LL BE BACK WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL ORIINI KAIPARA, MIKE WILLIAMS AND JENNY MARCROFT. PLUS, FREE TRADE FOR ALL APPARENTLY ` BUT IS IT? TRADE MINISTER DAMIEN O'CONNOR, AFTER THE BREAK. IT'S BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD AND TOUTED AS A GOLD-STANDARD TRADE DEAL ` EVENTUALLY THERE WILL BE NO TARIFFS ON NEW ZEALAND EXPORTS TO THE UK. THE EU TRADE DEAL IS SUPPOSEDLY NEXT, BUT THEY'RE PLAYING HARDBALL, AND TRADE WITH ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE INDIA IS DECLINING. I CAUGHT UP WITH TRADE MINISTER DAMIEN O'CONNOR IN PARLIAMENT AND BEGAN BY ASKING HIM ` IS THE NEW U.K TRADE DEAL REALLY A GOLD-STANDARD IN EQUITY FOR MAORI? ABSOLUTELY. WE HAVE A SPECIFIC CHAPTER IN THERE THAT FOCUSES ON OPPORTUNITIES AND CONSIDERATION OF THE MAORI ECONOMY. IT'S A GROWING ECONOMY. THIS IS A WORLD-FIRST IN THAT PARTICULAR PLACE. IN TERMS OF GOLD-STANDARD, IT'S ONLY AUSTRALIA THAT IS THE OTHER TRADE PARTNER THAT ULTIMATELY HAS ZERO TARIFFS, AND THAT'S WHERE WE WILL BE IN 15 YEARS UNDER. YEAH, IN TERMS OF MAORI THOUGH, HOW ENFORCEABLE ARE THOSE CHAPTERS OR IS IT JUST WINDOW DRESSING TO MAKE IT LOOK INCLUSIVE? LOOK, THE U.K UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS FROM A CONSTITUTIONAL PERSPECTIVE, AND IT WAS A NEW CHALLENGE FOR THEM TO CONSIDER SUCH THINGS IN A TRADE ARRANGEMENT. BUT WE DEALT WITH THAT REALLY EARLY ON, AND THEN THEY'VE WORKED THROUGH TO, YOU KNOW, AN AGREEMENT THAT I'M SURE WILL BE FOLLOWED THROUGH BY MAORI IN PARTICULAR, AND THE U.K UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE TO US. BUT IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THESE ARE ENFORCEABLE CHAPTERS. THEY WILL BE, I'M SURE. AND YOU KNOW, AS WITH MOST TRADE AGREEMENTS, THESE WILL EVOLVE OVER TIME, AND WE'LL MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS. I THINK THE WORLD OF INDIGENOUS TRADE, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S RIGHTS IS AN EVERMORE IMPORTANT PART OF EVERY COUNTRY. CERTAINLY THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES THAT HAVE TAKEN THESE THINGS FOR GRANTED NOW REALISE THAT THEY HAVE TO CONSIDER WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST. WHY COULDN'T YOU GET A GOLD-PLATED DEAL OR A GOLD-STANDARD DEAL WITH THE EU AS YOU HAVE WITH THE U.K? IT'S A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CONGLOMERATION OF ECONOMIES AND MORE COMPLEX OF COURSE, BUT IT'S A MARKET OF 450 MILLION PEOPLE. SO A LOT LARGER. THE ECONOMIC POTENTIAL FAR GREATER IN THE EU THAN THE U.K, AND OF COURSE IN THE U.K WE HAD STRONG, TRADITIONAL CONNECTIONS. THE EU ` SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, MORE COMPLEX AS I SAY, BUT WE'VE MADE HUGE PROGRESS. HAVE YOU MADE HUGE PROGRESS? THE FARMERS SEEM TO BE BITTERLY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE ALLOCATION THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED OR ARE GOING TO RECEIVE IN TERMS OF QUOTAS OF MEAT TO EU. IT WILL BE THE SINGLE BIGGEST SUPPLIER OF DAIRY PRODUCTS INTO THE EU. THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT STEP FORWARD. THEY HAVEN'T OPENED A DOOR TO ANYONE ELSE. WE'RE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THAT, AND I'M SURE OVER TIME, THAT WILL IMPROVE AS WELL. BUT IT'S STILL NOT VERY MUCH. AND IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF MEAT BEING EXPORTED TO THE EU, IT'S VERY SMALL, ISN'T IT? INITIALLY IT IS. BUT I HAVE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE STRUGGLE TO MEET ALL THE MARKET OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE NOW. SO WE'RE LIMITED BY THE VOLUMES. IT'S ONE MORE OPTION FOR EXPORTERS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO ACHIEVE WITH OUR TRADE RECOVERY STRATEGY AND EXPORT DIVERSIFICATION. DID YOU JUMP TOO SOON WITH THE EU? COULD YOU HAVE WAITED LONGER TO GET SOMETHING BETTER? NO. IN FACT, THE RISK WAS THAT IF WE DIDN'T CONCLUDE, THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. YOUR JOB IS TO OPEN DOORS. YOU TOLD US LAST YEAR THAT YOUR JOB IS TO OPEN DOORS FOR BUSINESS. ARE YOU CONFIDENT YOU'VE OPENED THE DOORS IN THE EU? ABSOLUTELY. WE WENT THROUGH THIS. WE AGONISED OVER THIS. IT WAS RIGHT DOWN TO THE LAST MINUTES, LITERALLY, WHEN THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE PRESIDENT, VON DER LEYEN'S` PRIME MINISTER ARDERN AND PRESIDENT VON DER LEYEN WERE ANNOUNCING THIS. WE ARE STILL TECHNICAL DETAILS THAT WE WERE WORKING THROUGH. WE HELD OUT TO THE LAST MINUTE, BUT CLEARLY, THE AREAS OF FOOD PRODUCTION, DAIRY AND BEEF ARE VERY, VERY SENSITIVE. THE FACT THAT WE MADE PROGRESS WAS SOMETHING THAT TRADE NEGOTIATORS THOUGHT IMPOSSIBLE 10 YEARS AGO. DO YOU THINK WE'RE GETTING ENOUGH RETURN ON INVESTMENT DIPLOMATIC-WISE? WE SUPPORT THE EU DIPLOMATICALLY, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE IN UKRAINE. SURELY THERE'S A QUID PRO QUO FOR THAT IN TERMS OF TRADE. I THINK WE'RE GETTING IT. I THINK THIS TRADE` SO YOU'RE HAPPY WITH WHAT WE'RE GETTING? ABSOLUTELY. WE'RE A MARKET OF FIVE MILLION PEOPLE. THEIRS IS A MARKET OF 450 MILLION. YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES INTO OUR COUNTRY ARE SOMEWHAT LIMITED. BUT THEY SAW THE VALUE IN CONNECTING WITH THE COUNTRY THAT SHARES THEIR VALUES AND ASPIRATIONS IN CLIMATE CHANGE, LABOUR STANDARDS, BIODIVERSITY, ANIMAL WELFARE. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE THE COMPONENTS THAT THE EU WANT TO SEE IN FUTURE TRADE AGREEMENTS. WE'VE STARTED, AND WE'VE SET A REALLY GOOD STANDARD WITH THEM. THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE APPRECIATED. SO THE STANDARD THAT YOU'VE SET WITH THE EU IN TERMS OF DAIRY AND MEAT, RIGHT ` IT'S A LESSER DEAL. IT'S NOT VERY BIG. IF WE'RE HAPPY WITH THAT, WHY CAN'T WE TAKE THAT MODEL AND GO TO INDIA AND SAY, 'WE DON'T WANT A DEAL WITH DAIRY'? WELL, NO, WE CAN'T HAVE A TRADE AGREEMENT WITHOUT OUR CORE EXPORTS. BUT THE PROPORTION` BUT AUSTRALIA HAS. AUSTRALIA HAS DONE IT WITHOUT, SAY, DAIRY. YEAH, THEY HAVE DONE IT ON THE BASIS THAT IT'S A VERY SMALL PART OF THEIR TOTAL ECONOMY AND EXPORT PROFILE. IT'S THE SINGLE BIGGEST ONE FOR US. FOR US TO HAVE A TRADE AGREEMENT AND HAVE NO REFERENCE TO DAIRY WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE. NONETHELESS, I BELIEVE WE CAN OVER TIME BUILD COOPERATION ACROSS THE DAIRY INDUSTRY. AND WE HAD ONE OF THE BIG PLAYERS OUT HERE IN NEW ZEALAND. WE CAN DO` WE CAN GET THAT PROGRESS TO A POINT WHERE THERE'S VALUE FOR THEM IN HAVING A TRADE AGREEMENT WITH US THAT INCLUDES DAIRY, AND THERE WILL BE RESTRICTIONS, I'M SURE. ARE YOU STUCK ON DAIRY AND AGRICULTURE? SHOULDN'T WE JUST BE GOING FOR A HIGH EXPORT ` A MARKET LIKE TECHNOLOGY ` AND JUST FORGET DAIRY, PUT IT ASIDE? THAT WAY WE CAN GET A DEAL DONE QUICKER, AND TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE WITH INDIA. IT IS GROWING RAPIDLY. ITS AND-AND. AND THE PROPORTION OF BENEFITS` DOES IT HAVE TO BE AND-AND? THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO MOVE ON DAIRY, ARE THEY? I THINK THEY WILL. I THINK THERE'S A VIEW THAT, OF COURSE, THE GROWING EXPECTATIONS FOR DAIRY PROTEIN IN INDIA CANNOT BE MET BY INTERNAL PRODUCTION, AND THAT'S WHERE WE AS PARTNERS CAN SIT ALONGSIDE THEM. THE BIG CO-OP LIKE AMUL, BASED ON NEW ZEALAND'S MODEL, IS` I THINK WILL BE WILLING TO WORK WITH US AS A TRUSTED PARTNER TO SUPPLY AND FILL THE GAPS. WE MENTIONED AUSTRALIA BEFORE, AND THEY'VE DONE A LIMITED DEAL, BUT THEY DID GET SHEEP MEAT ACROSS THE LINE, AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO. SO DEALS CAN BE DONE. IT'S A CHALLENGE. OF COURSE WE HAVE TO SIT DOWN. EVERY TRADE NEGOTIATION IS DIFFICULT. THEY'VE ALSO GOT REDUCED TARIFFS ON WINE AND HORTICULTURE, SO YOU CAN BUY AUSTRALIAN AVOCADOS OVER THERE; YOU CAN BUY AUSTRALIAN LAMB CHOPS OVER THERE, BUT NOT NEW ZEALAND. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL TRY AND ACHIEVE OVER TIME. AND SOME OF THEM MIGHT GO INTO THE MARKET NOW, MEET ALL THE PHYTOSANITARY STANDARDS AND PAY THE TARIFF AND STILL BE IN MARKET. BUT A TRADE AGREEMENT FOCUSES ON REDUCTION OF TARIFFS AND NON-TARIFF BARRIERS AND ENSURING THERE'S A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WHEN WE GO INTO THAT MARKET. SO THAT'S OUR AMBITION OVER TIME. WE'RE BUILDING STRONGER ECONOMIC RELATIONSHIPS. WE'VE HAD THREE MINISTERS IN SIX MONTHS INTO INDIA. WE'VE HAD AN INDIAN MINISTER HERE. WE'VE GOT STRONG AND GROWING ECONOMIC RELATIONSHIPS. WE DON'T HAVE A FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT ON THE TABLE AT THE MOMENT. THAT'S RIGHT. SO LOOK, AUSTRALIA HAS GOT A DEAL, AND WE WERE ON THAT PATH WITH JOHN KEY. HE WENT OVER THERE AND VISITED PRIME MINISTER MODI, INVITED PRIME MINISTER MODI BACK. BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD A PRIME MINISTER GO OVER TO JOIN US SINCE LABOUR'S BEEN IN THERE. JOHN KEY RAN INTO A BRICK WALL, AND THEY SAID NO FURTHER PROGRESS ON THE FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT. SO HE RAN INTO THE REALITY. THAT IS STILL THE CASE. BUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE SINCE THEN IS WE'VE WORKED COLLABORATIVELY IN TERMS OF APPLE PRODUCTION, IN TERMS OF DAIRY AND TECHNOLOGY. WE'LL CONTINUE TO GROW THOSE RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT INDIA SEES US AS A TRUSTED PARTNER, NOT JUST AS A SUPPLIER OF GOODS. DO WE HAVE THE TIME, THOUGH? ISN'T IT URGENT THAT WE DIVERSIFY AWAY FROM CHINA` WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS` AND ALIGN OURSELVES WITH ANOTHER EMERGING SUPER ECONOMY AND SUPERPOWER? WELL, WE'VE GOT TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT THE VOLUME OF GOODS THAT WE CAN PRODUCE FROM OUR COUNTRY. AND IN SOME AREAS OF PRIMARY PRODUCTION, WE ARE LIMITED BY OUR LAND AREA AND BY TECHNOLOGY. WE'LL GROW THAT OVER TIME. WE CAN'T SUPPLY ALL THE MARKETS WITH EVERYTHING THAT THEY WANT. HAVE YOU INVITED PRIME MINISTER MODI TO NEW ZEALAND? LOOK, I'LL LEAVE THAT TO THE PRIME MINISTER TO ANSWER ON THAT. RIGHT. THE DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN. EVERY TIME I TRAVEL, I EXTEND TO MY COLLEAGUES AT A MINISTERIAL LEVEL THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME. AND INDEED WE SAW AN INDIAN MINISTER IN OUR COUNTRY IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. JACINDA ARDERN HELPED SEAL THE DEALS WITH THE EU AND UK, BUT SHE HASN'T BEEN TO INDIA WITH YOU. IS THE PRIME MINISTER CHRIS HIPKINS GOING TO GO TO INDIA? I WON'T SPEAK FOR THE PRIME MINISTER OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT` IT WOULD BE HELPFUL, WOULDN'T IT? IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. IT'S ALWAYS HELPFUL TO HAVE THE PRIME MINISTER TRAVEL AND ADVOCATE FOR TRADE, BUT WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO VISIT. AND INDEED I'M CONFIDENT HE'LL BE MEETING WITH THE INDIAN PRIME MINISTER AND PASSING ON THOSE MESSAGES VERY CLEARLY. IS THERE A CHANCE THAT WE COULD BE MARGINALISED IF WE DON'T GET A DEAL SOON? NO, NOT AT ALL. I THINK THAT WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE A SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC PARTNER, NOT IN TERMS OF SCALE, BUT I THINK IMPORTANCE AND TECHNOLOGY. WE SHARE SIMILAR VALUES WITH INDIA. WE HAVE A LARGE INDIAN POPULATION WITHIN OUR OWN COUNTRY. SO THE LINKS ARE BUILDING ALL THE TIME, AND I THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO BUILD OFF THEM TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE BETTER TRADE ARRANGEMENTS, BETTER CULTURAL ARRANGEMENTS, BETTER PEOPLE-TO-PEOPLE ARRANGEMENTS THAT ULTIMATELY WILL LEAD TO A FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT. WHICH INCLUDES DAIRY. ABSOLUTELY. FINALLY, LET'S TALK LIVE ANIMAL EXPORTS BY SEA. THE LAST SHIPMENT HAS LEFT, BUT IT'S TAKEN TWO YEARS TO GET TO THIS POINT. WHY DIDN'T YOU END IT SOONER? LOOK, WE'VE FELT THAT THE INDUSTRY THAT HAD GEARED ITSELF UP AND HAD INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE ` THERE WERE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THE LIVE EXPORT TRADE, INCLUDING ASSURANCE FROM MPI. WE FELT THAT THERE WAS A TWO-YEAR TIMELINE TO PHASE OUT WAS FAIR AND REASONABLE, BUT THE CLEAR SIGNAL WAS THIS WAS GOING TO END. BUT IN THAT TIME, LIVE ANIMAL EXPORTS HAVE ACTUALLY INCREASED, AND ANIMALS HAVE SUFFERED. AND NATIONAL PARTY HAS SAID THEY'RE GOING TO REVIVE IT. HAVE YOU OPENED THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT TRADE TO CONTINUE IF YOU LOSE POWER? NO. I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT WILL BE UP TO THE PARTY, WHOEVER COMES IN. IF THEY WANT TO REVERSE THAT, THEN THEY CAN ADDRESS THE ISSUES IN THE INTERNATIONAL MARKETPLACE, BOTH THE UK AND THE EU, WHERE THEY SAID THAT WE WON'T DETERMINE WHAT OUR ANIMAL WELFARE STANDARDS ARE, BUT LET'S NOT REDUCE THEM IN ANY WAY FOR A TRADE ADVANTAGE. THEY CAN ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME IF THEY CHOOSE TO CHANGE THE POLICY. A BRAZILIAN COURT HAS RULED THAT LIVE EXPORTS SHOULD CEASE FROM THAT COUNTRY. THAT MAY BE APPEALED AND OVERRULED. BUT THAT'S AN INDICATION OF WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD. DID IT TAKE TWO YEARS SO YOU DIDN'T REALLY SORT OF ANNOY CHINA, WHICH WAS THE BIGGEST MARKET THAT IT WOULD END ABRUPTLY? YOU'RE KEEPING THEM ONSIDE? IT WASN'T ABOUT MARKET. THIS WAS ABOUT ACTUALLY THE TRAVEL OF THE ANIMALS. AND WE'RE RIGHT DOWN THE BOTTOM OF THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE HERE. MANY OF THOSE MARKETS ARE IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE. THEY GO ACROSS THE EQUATOR. ALL THE REPORTS I HAD ` AND I'VE SPOKEN TO MANY PEOPLE ` SAID THAT HEAT STRESS WAS SOMETHING THAT COULDN'T BE MITIGATED. THESE ARE ANIMALS THAT GET LESS THAN 2m2 FOR THREE WEEKS ON A SHIP GOING THROUGH THE TROPICS. YOU KNOW, ANY REASONABLE NEW ZEALAND FARMER ACTUALLY` AND HALF OF THEM SAID THEY DON'T SUPPORT THE TRADE. SO LOOK, ON BALANCE, TO PROTECT OUR REPUTATION IN THE INTERNATIONAL MARKETPLACE AND PLACES LIKE THE UK, EU AND EVERYWHERE ELSE AROUND THE WORLD WHERE PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT ANIMAL WELFARE, WE THOUGHT IMPORTANT TO PROTECT OUR REPUTATION. THERE ARE ALSO CALLS TO END THE LIVE ANIMAL EXPORTS BY AIR. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD DO? NO. I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT IN THE AIR FOR THREE WEEKS, YOU KNOW, AND SO HIGH-VALUE ANIMALS ` IT'S A VERY HIGH-COST AIR TRANSPORT. THEY'RE IN THE AIR FOR A VERY SHORT SPACE OF TIME. SO THAT TRADE WILL CONTINUE. I THINK YES. THIS IS ABOUT THE ANIMAL WELFARE AND THE WELFARE OF ANIMALS FOR THREE WEEKS ON BOATS IN CRAMPED CONDITIONS THROUGH THE TROPICS ` NOT THE SAME AS BEING IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED AIR FREIGHTER. OK. TRADE AND AGRICULTURE MINISTER DAMIEN O'CONNOR, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. KIA ORA. A MURI AKE NEI ` COMING UP NEXT ` OUR POLITICAL PANEL, HERE FOR THE DRAMA ` ORIINI KAIPARA, MIKE WILLIAMS AND JENNY MARCROFT AFTER THE BREAK. PLUS, YOU THINK YOU HAVE TRANSPORT TROUBLES? TRY WAITING SIX HOURS. WE'LL BE BACK WITH FINN HOGAN'S SPECIAL REPORT AFTER THE BREAK. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. I'M JOINED NOW BY OUR PANEL ` OUR VERY OWN FORMER NATION CO-HOST ORIINI KAIPARA, FORMER LABOUR PARTY PRESIDENT AND LIFE MEMBER MIKE WILLIAMS AND FORMER NEW ZEALAND FIRST MP AND CURRENT MEMBER JENNY MARCROFT. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME. THANK YOU. STARTING WITH RAWIRI, ORIINI, YOU PICKED UP ON SOMETHING YOU SAID THAT MEKA WAS COMING HOME. YEAH. I'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS WEEK ` OBVIOUSLY, FOR GOOD REASON. AND WHAT STRIKES ME` A LOT STRIKES ME ` SAYING SHE'S COME HOME. AND MY IDEA, SHE'S ALWAYS BEEN HOME. IKAROA-RAWHITI IS HER HOME. TO SAY THAT SHE'S GONE FROM THE LABOUR TO THE MAORI PARTY, AND THAT'S HOME, I'M A BIT CONFUSED ABOUT THAT. ARE THEY TELLING US THAT LABOUR WASN'T THE PLACE FOR HER ALTHOUGH SHE SPENT 10 YEARS PRIOR TO BECOMING AN MP WITH PAREKURA HOROMIA? I THOUGHT THAT WAS HER HOME. I'M A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED ABOUT THE MESSAGE, OR THE UNDERLYING MESSAGES THAT AREN'T BEING SAID ON THAT FRONT, SO I'M CONFUSED. AS A MAORI, HOME IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE AND WHERE YOUR ROOTS ARE. AND THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN FOR HER IN TAIRAWHITI. THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION AROUND MEKA'S EXIT. WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS GOING ON HERE? IT SOUNDED LIKE PERSONAL AMBITION. I THINK SO. IF YOU FOLLOW HER CAREER, SHE WAS IN CABINET IN 2017. SHE WAS REMOVED FOR BULLYING, AND I THINK SHE WAS VERY LUCKY TO BE MADE A MINISTER IN 2020. BUT IT WAS MINISTER OUTSIDE OF CABINET, AND I THINK SHE WAS PASSED OVER THREE TIMES FOR GOING BACK INTO CABINET, WHICH I THINK WAS WISHFUL THINKING ON HER PART. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT THE THIRD TIME SHE WAS PASSED OVER WAS BY ANOTHER MAORI WOMAN, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK. BUT I WILL SAY, IN SUPPORT OF WHAT ORIINI HAS JUST SAID, HERE'S A QUOTE ` 'THE BOND BETWEEN THE NEW ZEALAND LABOUR PARTY AND IKAROA-RAWHITI 'IS UNIQUE AND ENTRENCHED IN ITS OWN RIGHT.' THAT IS A QUOTE FROM MEKA WHAITIRI'S MAIDEN SPEECH. I DON'T THINK SHE'LL HOLD THE SEAT. YEAH, IT'S A STRONGHOLD ` IT'S A LABOUR STRONGHOLD. AND I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT WHAT SHOULD THE PEOPLE OF IKAROA-RAWHITI THINK, JENNY, BECAUSE WE HEARD FROM RAWIRI, IT'S GOING TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THEM FOR MEKA TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE. WELL, ABSOLUTELY NOT. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE THOSE LEVERS AND PULL THOSE LEVERS ` PARTICULARLY IN THE SITUATION WHERE SHE HAS JUST ABANDONED HER AREA UNDER, YOU KNOW... FOLLOWING THE CYCLONE AND THE WORK THAT NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO HELP THEM, BECAUSE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HER FOCUS, NOT PERSONAL AMBITION. SO FOR HER TO SUDDENLY... UM, AND SHE HAS TO ACCOUNT FOR HER ACTIONS NOW. THERE'S BEEN NO CONTACT UP TILL THIS MORNING, WITH HER WHIPS INSIDE LABOUR, SO THEY STILL DON'T KNOW WHY SHE HAS LEFT. SHE MADE THE APPROACH, IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, TO THE MAORI PARTY. SO SHE OBVIOUSLY HAD THIS PLANNED OUT, AND IT'LL BE UP TO HER TO DECIDE HOW SHE WILL FACE HER ELECTORATE AFTER. BECAUSE LET'S LOOK AT IT 10 YEARS AGO, ALMOST TO THE DAY, WAS THE DEATH OF PAREKURA HOROMIA, SO THE TIMING IS REALLY COINCIDENTAL AROUND THAT, SO WE'RE SEEING A SNAPSHOT, I BELIEVE, A REAL-TIME LIVE SNAPSHOT OF WHAT WILL THE COALITION ` IF THEY'RE IN THAT POSITION ` LOOK LIKE, COME THE ELECTION. YEAH, AND I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT, MIKE, BECAUSE IS THE MAORI PARTY GOING TO BE IN THE KINGMAKER POSITION? IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT ANY MORE, DOES IT? I THINK THAT IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT I WOULD MAKE A POINT. I DON'T KNOW MEKA WHAITIRI EXCEPT BY REPUTATION. I DID KNOW PAREKURA HOROMIA, AND HE WILL BE TURNING IN HIS GRAVE. HE WAS A SOLID LABOUR MAN. I THINK THAT, UM... RAWIRI MADE QUITE A BIG MISTAKE ` HE LEFT THE DOOR OPEN FOR A COALITION WITH THE NATIONAL PARTY, IN THAT PRESENTATION HE GAVE TO YOU. NOW, THEY DIDN'T LEARN FROM THEIR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. THEY WERE IN A COALITION WITH THE NATIONAL PARTY, AND THEY GOT WIPED OUT; THEY LOST EVERY SEAT. SO I THINK HE'S GOTTA BE REAL CAREFUL ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR ASPECT OF HIS SELLING POINT. AND YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T BE LEFT, RIGHT OR NOTHING. YOU'VE GOT TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER. ORIINI, THERE IS A LOT OF HEAT AND NOISE AROUND THE MAORI PARTY, BUT TRANSLATING THAT INTO POLITICAL GAINS IS TRICKY, ISN'T IT? THAT'S WHERE THE REAL WORK BEGINS, THOUGH. ABSOLUTELY, AND I DIDN'T REALLY QUITE GET THAT FROM RAWIRI'S KORERO WITH YOU TODAY. YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF, OR... LIKENING THE LAY OF THE POLITICAL SPREAD, I SUPPOSE, WITH LABOUR BEING ON ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND NATIONAL BEING THE OTHER, AND, YOU KNOW, THE TEKOTEKO, IS WHAT RAWIRI IS SAYING THE MAORI PARTY IS, BUT HOW DO YOU TRANSLATE THAT INTO ACTUAL GAINS? I DON'T KNOW. IS THAT SAYING, 'WELL, THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE SPEARHEAD AND GO OUT THERE AND FIGHT IN THE MIDDLE?' WELL, WE HAVE OTHER POLITICAL PARTIES WHO DO THAT AS WELL. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT MAORI PARTY ISN'T DOING THAT ` THEY ARE, BUT THE GAINS IS WHERE IT MATTERS MOST. AND AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN THAT. AND I'M ACTUALLY REALLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT MEKA CAN ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY BRING TO TE PATI MAORI, AND... CROSSING THE FLOOR AND GOING OVER TO TE PATI MAORI, DOES SHE STAND BY EVERYTHING THAT THEY'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR THIS LAST TERM IN TERMS OF DIVORCING THE CROWN, GST, TAXING KAI. YOU KNOW, BRINGING THAT DOWN. DID SHE ACTUALLY WHOLE-HEARTEDLY SUPPORT EVERYTHING THAT DEBBIE AND RAWIRI HAVE BEEN SPIELING FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS IN PARLIAMENT? I BEG TO DIFFER, WHETHER OR NOT SHE'S ACTUALLY FULLY... FLEDGED INTO THE MAORI PARTY PSYCHE AT THE MOMENT. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN. I ALSO WANT TO PICK UP ON THE IKAROA-RAWHITI CONSTITUENCY. I THINK IT IS UNFAIR TO DROP THE BALL ON HER CONSTITUENTS WHEN SHE WAS IN A POSITION OF POWER. SHE HELD THE POWER, AND SHE RELINQUISHED THAT. AND I THINK THAT HER OWN PEOPLE WOULD KIND OF FEEL DISHEARTENED; IT IS A STRONG LABOUR FORT, IKAROA-RAWHITI. SO I THINK THAT THE MAORI PARTY ARE BEING VERY PREMATURE IN SAYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT SEAT. THEY'RE UNDERMINING THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS, WHO ARE VERY LABOUR, YOU KNOW... IN A LABOUR ELECTORATE. YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE TE HAUAURU, WITH ADRIAN RURAWHE WITH THE RATANA STRONGHOLD DOWN IN TE TAI TONGA WITH RINO TIRIKATENE. THE TIRIKATENE BRAND IS VERY STRONG DOWN IN TE WAIPOUNAMU, SO I THINK TE PATI MAORI JUST NEEDS PLAY IT A LITTLE BIT MORE CAUTIOUSLY WITHOUT COMING OUT AND BEING THE BULL IN A TEA SHOP KIND OF THING. (CACKLES) THAT'S NOT REALLY HOW THEY ROLL, THOUGH, IS IT? I WANT TO PICK UP QUICKLY ON ELIZABETH KEREKERE BECAUSE WE HAD A BIT OF POLITICAL NEWS LATE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT LAST NIGHT THAT SHE HAS LEFT THE GREEN PARTY. SO WE HAVE ANOTHER MP NOW, WITH ELIZABETH KEREKERE, SITTING AS AN INDEPENDENT WITHIN PARLIAMENT UNTIL THE ELECTION, MIKE. WELL, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY BASED ON THE PRECEDENT OF MEKA WHAITIRI, WHO MANAGED TO WAKA-JUMP BUT NOT INCUR THE WAKA-JUMPING LEGISLATION. AND I THINK ELIZABETH KEREKERE'S PROBABLY HAD A LOOK AT THAT. I THINK SHE'S PROBABLY WORKED OUT, I MEAN... THE GREEN PARTY IS FORMING ITS LIST AS WE SPEAK. I THINK THE NEGATIVE PUBLICITY AROUND ELIZABETH KEREKERE, JUSTIFIED OR NOT, PROBABLY MEANS THAT SHE WOULD NOT COME ON THAT LIST IN A WINNABLE POSITION, SO SHE'S REALLY JUST CUT AND RUN. AND WHO WOULD BLAME HER UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES? BUT I WOULD SAY THIS ` I THINK SHE'LL BE A LOSS TO THE GREEN PARTY. YEAH, JENNY? I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS, OVER THE COURSE OF THIS WEEK, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF DRAMA IN THE HOUSE, BASICALLY. (STAMMERS) IT REALLY GIVES US A SNAPSHOT, A PREVIEW OF WHAT A LEFT-LEANING COALITION MIGHT LOOK LIKE. WE'VE GOT A GREEN PARTY WHICH IS GIVING THEMSELVES PAPER CUTS, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT TE PATI MAORI WHO ARE KNEE-CAPPING AND GIVING THE LABOUR PARTY A BLOODY NOSE, WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE LIKE IF THEY DO GET TO GO INTO COALITION? NEVER MIND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TWO PARTIES HERE WHO SIGNED AND DELIVERED THE ELECTORAL INTEGRITY ACT LEGISLATION, WHICH IS WAKA-JUMPING LAWS. WELL, THEY WANTED IT BECAUSE... AND THEY HAD BOTH MANAGED TO DANCE ON THE HEAD OF THE PIN IN THE LAST 48 HOURS. BUT THEY DIDN'T REALLY WANT IT, DID THEY? THAT WAS NZ FIRST. ABSOLUTELY, AND IT WAS A COALITION AGREEMENT, AND IT WAS AT ALL ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BALLOT BOX AND DELIVERING FOR THE ELECTORATE. BUT THAT WAS A NZ FIRST POLICY, SO THEY TOOK IT ON IN THE COALITION AGREEMENT, AND NOW OBVIOUSLY THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO USE IT. MIKE: MM. WELL, ABSOLUTELY. BUT YOU KNOW, LABOUR IN 2001 PUSHED THROUGH THE ORIGINAL ELECTORAL INTEGRITY ACT, OF WHICH JOHN TAMIHERE WAS A MEMBER AND HE ALSO PASSED OFF THAT LAW, SO LET'S JUST... WELL. (CHUCKLES) ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THERE IS SO MUCH FOR US TO TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THE PANEL, ORIINI, MIKE AND JENNY. ALL: THANK YOU. E WHAI AKE NEI ` WE CROSS LIVE TO EUROPE CORRESPONDENT LISETTE REYMER IN LONDON. PLUS, TRANSPORT TROUBLES HAD TEMPERS FLARING THIS WEEK ` IN THE HOUSE. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. IT'S BEEN COMMUTER CHAOS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THIS WEEK WITH WIDESPREAD DISRUPTION TO BOTH RAIL AND BUS NETWORKS, JUST THE LATEST IN A SERIES OF POST-COVID TRANSPORT TROUBLES. BUT FOR KIWIS WITH DISABILITIES AND NO OTHER TRANSPORT OPTIONS, THEY CAN BE DEVASTATING. WORSE STILL, WHEN A BUS DOES COME, THE DRIVER MIGHT NOT EVEN LET THEM BOARD. FINN HOGAN WITH THIS REPORT. LATELY, WAITING FOR A BUS SEEMS TO TAKE ALL DAY. WHAT'S THE LONGEST YOU'VE EVER HAD TO WAIT TO CATCH A BUS? SIX HOURS. NO JOKE. SIX HOURS? JUST TO GET SOMEWHERE. AND WHAT DID THAT DO TO YOUR DAY? (SIGHS) I WANTED TO SWEAR. FOR DISABLED COMMUTERS LIKE MANGERE LOCAL LUHAMA, EVEN WHEN A BUS FINALLY COMES, SHE MIGHT NOT GET TO BOARD. MY WORST ONE WAS ASKING A BUS DRIVER TO KINDLY LET ME ON. HE WOULD SIT THERE FOR AGES, PONDER AND GOES, 'OH, WAIT FOR THE NEXT BUS.' AND I'M LIKE, OK, I JUST WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE SOMEBODY THAT... BE HUMAN AND JUST GO PLACES. LUHAMA COMPLAINED TO AUCKLAND TRANSPORT ABOUT THAT DRIVER, AND THEY WERE REPRIMANDED. BUT ADVOCATES FROM THE CEREBRAL PALSY SOCIETY SAY STORIES LIKE LUHAMA'S AREN'T UNIQUE. THEY'RE A DIME A DOZEN. I'VE EXPERIENCED IT MYSELF AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HEAR ON A` I'D SAY, ON A WEEKLY BASIS. WIDESPREAD DISRUPTION IN MARCH SAW AUCKLAND TRANSPORT REACH A RECORD LOW IN USER SATISFACTION; ONLY 1 IN 5 RIDERS SAYING THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THE SERVICE. THIS WEEK ALONE SAW A FURTHER WAVE OF CANCELLATIONS ACROSS AUCKLAND BUS AND TRAIN NETWORKS, WITH MAYOR WAYNE BROWN PROMISING TO GET ANSWERS. BUT WHAT'S AN INCONVENIENCE TO MOST PUBLIC TRANSPORT USERS IS DEVASTATING TO DISABLED TRAVELLERS. BECAUSE OF THE DELAYS THAT ARE IN PLACE, HAVING TO GET TO THESE TEMPORARY INACCESSIBLE BUS STOPS, WE MISS OUR CONNECTING TRAVEL AND THEN WE END UP STRANDED. BEING A DISABLED PERSON WHO IS STRANDED IS REALLY DISABLING AND THAT'S WHAT KNOCKS THE CONFIDENCE. AND THEN IT HAS THAT DOMINO EFFECT OF 'I DON'T WANT TO DO PUBLIC 'TRANSPORT AGAIN, BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY NO OTHER OPTION.' SO THE ALTERNATIVE IS THEY STAY HOME. THEY JUST BECOME RECLUSIVE. WHEN DISABLED KIWIS DO MAKE IT ON BOARD A BUS, THEY CAN FACE STIGMA. EVEN ON THIS RELATIVELY SHORT TRIP FROM LUHAMA'S HOME INTO MANGERE TOWNSHIP. HOW TYPICAL IS THAT KIND OF INTERACTION FOR YOU? MONDAY TO SUNDAY, EVERY DAY, 365 DAYS IN MY LIFE, TRYING TO GET SOMEWHERE. HI. WOULD DRIVERS BE ASKING ANY OTHER PASSENGER ON BOARD IF THEY SHOULD BE CATCHING THE BUS? 'WHAT ARE THEY DOING CATCHING THE BUS?' THESE ARE NOT COMMENTS THAT ANY OTHER PASSENGER WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE. SO IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE AT ALL FOR DRIVERS TO BE TREATING OUR PEOPLE THIS WAY. NEWSHUB NATION ASKED AUCKLAND TRANSPORT ABOUT LUHAMA'S EXPERIENCE. IT SAID THE INTERACTION WAS 'UNACCEPTABLE' AND THE DRIVER WILL BE REMINDED ALL CUSTOMERS ARE WELCOME ON ITS SERVICES. DESPITE HER FRUSTRATIONS, LUHAMA KEEPS UP A SMILE, JUST HOPING HER NEXT TRIP WILL BE BETTER THAN THE LAST. YOU PICK YOUR BATTLES AND YOU JUST GO WITH THE FLOW AND ALL I'M THINKING IS, AS LONG AS I'M NICE AND KIND TO OTHERS, THEY HOPEFULLY, CROSS FINGERS, THEY DO THE SAME TO ME. BUT ADVOCATES LIKE KATOA SAY THE CURRENT STATE OF OUR PUBLIC TRANSPORT NETWORK JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH. ACCESSIBILITY IS A RIGHT FOR ALL NEW ZEALAND CITIZENS. MAKING SOMETHING ACCESSIBLE ISN'T JUST A DISABILITY ISSUE FOR THOSE POOR WRETCHED SOULS IN WHEELCHAIRS, IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO LIFT AND BE ENABLING FOR EVERYONE. IT'S ACCESSIBLE FOR MUMS WITH BABIES AND PRAMS, IT'S ACCESSIBLE FOR YOUR GRANDMA OR GRANDPA WITH A WALKING FRAME SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT THOSE DISABLED PEOPLE NEED. AND IN THE END, HER MESSAGE IS SIMPLE. WE WANT TO CONTRIBUTE. WE WANT TO BE A PART OF SOCIETY. SO PLEASE MAKE THAT HAPPEN FOR US. FINN HOGAN REPORTING THERE. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATAU. STAY WITH US, WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. WORLD LEADERS ARE CONVERGING ON LONDON TODAY, WHERE THE NEW KING AND QUEEN ARE TO BE CROWNED. OUR EUROPE CORRESPONDENT LISETTE REYMER IS IN LONDON. SHE JOINS US NOW. KIA ORA, LISETTE. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. I SEE THAT THE MAORI KING, KING TUHEITIA, HAS MET WITH KING CHARLES, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT HAPPENED THERE? THIS IS SIGNIFICANT NEWS, SIMON, BECAUSE WE HAVE JUST LEARNT THAT THIS MEETING HAS TAKEN PLACE. WE KNEW THAT THE MAORI KING WOULD BE ATTENDING A LARGE RECEPTION OF HEADS OF STATE AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE. NOW WE HAVE LEARNT THAT HE HAS ACTUALLY HAD A PRIVATE MEETING WITH KING CHARLES IN A SEPARATE ROOM, THE WHITE DRAWING ROOM IN BUCKINGHAM PALACE, THE TWO MEETING AS KINGS FOR THE FIRST TIME. IT'S SIGNIFICANT FOR A RAFT OF REASONS, BUT PARTICULARLY FOR WHAT IT SIGNIFIES FOR THE FUTURE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MAORI AND THE CROWN. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TAKING A LOT OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM BY THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO KINGS. YES, WE'VE JUST BEEN SHOWING THE PICTURE OF THAT MEETING. THEY LOOK LIKE THEY HAD QUITE A BIT OF CONNECTION, AS YOU SAY. AN IMPORTANT MEETING. THIS MEETING THOUGH, COMES AFTER AN OPEN LETTER, ASKING FOR KING CHARLES TO APOLOGISE FOR COLONISATION. IT WAS SIGNED BY TE PATI MAORI AND OTHER INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AROUND THE WORLD. ANY INDICATION THAT THE KING WILL DO THAT? YEAH, I MEAN, THERE IS NO SECRET THAT THERE ARE HUGE WOUNDS TO HEAL ALL ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH; 12 COUNTRIES INVOLVED IN THAT LETTER. THE KING HIMSELF HASN'T ADDRESSED IT; THE DETAILS OF THAT CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE TWO KINGS TODAY HAS BEEN KEPT PRIVATE ` FOR NOW. WE ASKED THE GOVERNOR GENERAL WHAT HER THOUGHTS WERE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE NEW MONARCH WOULD CONSIDER AN APOLOGY, BUT SHE SAID SHE COULDN'T SPEAK FOR HIM ON THAT, BUT DID REMIND PEOPLE THAT QUEEN ELIZABETH, OF COURSE, DID MAKE A FORMAL APOLOGY TO MAORI IN 1995 AT WAITANGI, SO AN APOLOGY OF SORTS HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE. WHETHER OR NOT KING CHARLES III CHOOSES TO DO THAT AS WELL UPON HIS CORONATION, IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN. OK. THE PRIME MINISTER OBVIOUSLY OVER THERE ANNOUNCING TRADE DEALS, HE'S BEEN HAVING A BUSY TIME, BUT HIS LATEST MEETING WAS WITH THE U.K PRIME MINISTER RISHI SUNAK. WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THAT MEETING? YEAH, PERHAPS SOME OF THE WIND WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE SAIL OF THE MEETING, BECAUSE OF THAT FREE TRADE DEAL RATIFICATION BEING ANNOUNCED EARLIER IN THE WEEK, SO THIS REALLY WAS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RISHI SUNAK AND CHRIS HIPKINS TO MEET FACE-TO-FACE FOR THE FIRST TIME AND TO CREATE THAT RELATIONSHIP. THEY DID, OF COURSE, DISCUSS TRADE. THEY TALKED ABOUT THE INDO-PACIFIC, AND ALSO DISCUSSED THE WAR IN UKRAINE, AND THEN OF COURSE, AS HAS BECOME A STRANGE CUSTOM HERE FOR CHRIS HIPKINS IN LONDON, HE WAS GIFTED AN ENORMOUS PLATE OF SAUSAGE ROLLS BY THE U.K PM, WHO THEN TUCKED IN WITH SOME WATTIE'S TOMATO SAUCE, WHICH CHRIS HIPKINS BOUGHT FROM HOME. SO, A FAIRLY POSITIVE CONVERSATION THERE AT DOWNING STREET. BUT RUSHI SUNAK WAS A VERY BUSY MAN TODAY. HE HAD LEADERS FROM AUSTRALIA, BRAZIL, QATAR AND NEW ZEALAND ALL COMING THROUGH THAT NUMBER 10 DOOR. I UNDERSTAND THAT RISHI SUNAK IS BUSY. BUT THE SAUSAGE ROLLS? THAT SEEMS TO BE THE THEME OF THIS PRIME MINISTERSHIP. IS THAT THE WAY THAT CHRIS HIPKINS IS GONNA DO HIS INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMACY FROM NOW ON? SAUSAGE ROLLS ALL THE WAY. CHUCKLES: IT WOULD SEEM SO, IT WOULD SEEM SO. OK, LOOK, IT'S A BIG, BIG DAY. HISTORIC DAY IN THE UK, YOUR TIME TOMORROW. WHAT'S THE MOOD LIKE ON THE GROUND? ARE THERE BRITS REALLY INTO IT? (STAMMERS) I WOULD BE SURPRISED. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU JUST HEARD THAT, BUT THERE WAS A VERY LOUD CHORUS OF GOD SAVE THE KING JUST GOING ON RIGHT NOW, AND IT HAS BEEN ALL DAY THAT WE'VE HEARD THAT BEING SUNG BY PEOPLE ON THE STREET. IT FEELS QUITE QUIET HERE, BUT DON'T BE MISLED. THAT IS BECAUSE MOST OF CENTRAL LONDON RIGHT NOW IS SHUT DOWN. IT IS COMPLETELY RESTRICTED FOR SECURITY PURPOSES, BECAUSE WE ARE HOURS AWAY FROM THIS HISTORY BEING MADE. THERE IS A FEELING HERE THAT I'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED ` NOT BECAUSE OF THE MONUMENTAL SECURITY OPERATION THAT IS UNDERWAY, MUCH BIGGER THAN THAT WHICH WAS UNDERTAKEN FOR THE QUEEN'S DEATH ` BUT THERE IS A VERY UNIQUE COMBINATION OF THE WEIGHT OF HISTORY THAT WE EXPERIENCED DURING THE QUEEN'S DEATH AND THE FUNERAL, AND THOSE 10 DAYS OF MOURNING, AND THERE'S ALSO THAT EXTREME SENSE OF CELEBRATION AND JOY THAT WE FELT DURING HER PLATINUM JUBILEE CELEBRATION. SO IT'S THIS PHENOMENAL COMBINATION OF BOTH OF THOSE FEELINGS, WHICH IS... YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LINING THE STREET. WHEN I WALKED IN THROUGH HERE THE SECURITY, IT WAS JUST LINES AND LINES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CAMPED OUT OVERNIGHT ON THE PROCESSION ROUTE, WANTING TO BE PART OF THIS HISTORY. SO IT IS JUST HOURS AWAY FROM A VERY VERY SPECIAL DAWN HERE IN LONDON. LISETTE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. NGA MIHI NUI. THAT WAS LISETTE REYMER FROM LONDON. EVERYONE'S STILL TAKING IN THE INFORMATION THAT CHRIS HIPKINS TOOK HIS OWN TOMATO SAUCE. (CHUCKLES) WILL TRAVEL ` DIPLOMACY WITH WATTIES. OH MY GOODNESS. TO THE HOUSE NOW, WHERE, WELL, THINGS WERE WEIRD AND PRETTY WILD THIS WEEK. MPs WERE SCRAMBLING WITH STANDING ORDERS TO HANDLE A MINISTER DEFECTING FROM HER PARTY. AND FINN HOGAN IS HERE NOW WITH THE WEEK THAT WAS IN WELLINGTON. THE BUSES AND TRAINS MIGHT NOT BE RUNNING ON TIME, BUT THE BURNS ARRIVE BANG ON 2PM IN THIS CHAMBER. I RECOGNISE THAT THE NATIONAL PARTY AND THE MEMBER OPPOSITE WISH TO TURN EVERY POLICY THAT IS ABOUT ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE INTO A TACKY LITTLE CULTURE WAR. YES, IT WAS MICHAEL WOODFORD V SIMEON BROWN ON CLIMATE AND TRANSPORT, AND NO HOLDS WERE BARRED. WHAT EXACTLY MAKES A UTE NECESSARY FOR PRACTICAL REASONS? (OVERLAPPING SHOUTING) FOR THE MAIN OPPOSITION PARTY OF THIS COUNTRY TO OPPOSE ANY AND ALL CLIMATE ACTION FOR CHEAP POLITICAL GAIN IS A DISGRACE AND AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THEM AND CERTAINLY AN EMBARRASSMENT TO SOME MEMBERS ON THEIR BACKBENCHES WHO ONCE LED A MORE PROGRESSIVE CLIMATE CHANGE POLICY FROM THAT PARTY. MEANWHILE, CARMEL SEPULONI WAS HOLDING DOWN THE FORT WHILE THE PM PAYS HIS RESPECT TO OUR NEW KING. HOW CAN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS UP AND DOWN THIS CONFIDENT` COUNTRY HAVE CONFIDENCE TO INVEST AND GROW THEIR BUSINESSES IF THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW THEY'LL BE TAXED AFTER OCTOBER THE 14TH? (LAUGHS) THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONFIRMING WE WILL BE IN GOVERNMENT AFTER OCTOBER. MR SPEAKER... BUT OF COURSE, IT WAS MEKA WHAITIRI'S BOMBSHELL DEFECTION THAT WAS THE TALK OF THE CHAMBER. THE HONOURABLE MEKA WHAITIRI IS FROM TODAY, REGARDED AS AN INDEPENDENT MEMBER FOR PARLIAMENTARY PURPOSES. THOUGH, THE SPEAKER IS KEEPING MUM ABOUT HIS PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE RENEGADE MP. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT MEMBERS CAN TRUST THAT ALL SUCH CORRESPONDENCE CAN REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL. WELL, WHEREVER SHE SITS, THE WAY THIS ELECTION IS SHAPING UP, SHE'LL HAVE A VIEW OF FIREWORKS. FINN HOGAN THERE. I AM STILL CONFUSED ABOUT THE STATUS OF MEKA. MAORI MP, LABOUR MP, SHOULD SHE STILL BE IN PARLIAMENT? I'M STILL CONFUSED AFTER RAWIRI'S... WILL WE END THE WEEK WITH TWO INDEPENDENT MPs? YES, THAT'S RIGHT. (LAUGHS) ELIZABETH KEREKERE` MAYBE THEY COULD SIT TOGETHER. AND FORM A VOTING BLOCK... THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ALL FROM US FOR NOW. THANKS FOR WATCHING. NGA MIHI NUI, WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND KITTY WASASALA. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023