Kia mahea te hua makihikihi kia toi te kupu, toi te mana, toi te aroha, toi tu ta tatou hui e tu mai nei. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. This week on The Hui ` buried beneath the whenua, the ugly pass to Pukekohe is coming to the surface. - We weren't allowed to bury there. That was only for the Pakeha. - Very hard to imagine that it actually was in New Zealand. - We look into Meka Whaitiri's decision to switch from Labour to Te Pati Maori. - The decision to cross the floor is not an easy one. - And... - # Who says we... - Plus, we showcase the multi-talented singer from Ngati Raukawa, Rei, with his new single 'All We Got'. - # ...when all we got is time. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - # He pounamu. - # He pounamu ano te wa. # Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 - Te hunga kua huri tuara mai nei ki a tatou i te ao turoa, haramai, haere. Tatou kei te pito ora, tihewa mauriora, and welcome back to The Hui. Maori whanau in Pukekohe who suffered cruel race-based separatism for decades, say they've waited too long for an apology. The 2020 book 'No Maori Allowed' revealed the depth of the town's sanctioned racial segregation. Now, three years on, kaumatua are demanding action from the Government. Na Ruwani Perera tenei purongo. - RUWANI PERERA: It's where more than a quarter of the country's produce is grown, but for decades, it was a town that was racially divided. Buried beneath Pukekohe's fertile soil is an ugly chapter in Aotearoa's history. - Very hard to imagine, uh, that it was actually in New Zealand. - We want an apology ` for all the suffering, the abuse, the racial discrimination, the hell we went through. - The town's public cemetery ` a stark reminder of its prejudiced past. - These are the unmarked graves of pepi, our rangatahi, you know, from our community. - They're silent, so I'm going to be their mouthpiece. - To do nothing is not an option. (BROODING MUSIC) - On the surface, it looks like a mostly empty plot of land, but it's an area of Pukekohe Cemetery previously called the Native Section. Buried here are hundreds of young casualties of the racism that once separated this community. Nothing shows the racial segregation that existed between Maori and Pakeha better than at this cemetery. While there's a smattering of Maori whanau buried on this side, the vast majority are crammed into this narrow strip of land ` unnamed, unmarked, forgotten. - We weren't allowed to bury there. That was only for the Pakeha. The white people. - The handful of headstones that do exist were put there by whanau in recent years. - At least we can identify where they are... so that we could come and` and spend time with them. - Phyllis Bhana was born across the road from Pukekohe Cemetery. Amongst many of her loved ones buried here is Phyllis' 1-year-old nephew George Andrews. Many of these are your own whanau? - Yeah. Majority was through influenza ` that's how my nephews died. Probably because of the housing they had back then. - Her whanau are amongst the more than 200 Maori pepi and children under 14 who died from preventable illnesses between 1925 and 1962. Whanau from all around the country came to Pukekohe to work as labourers on agricultural land and lived in abject squalor. The unhygienic, cramped, sub-standard conditions were directly linked to the poor health they suffered. So you've got all the documentation here? - Mm-hm. - Phyllis obtained the official council records which clearly mark who is buried in each plot ` - This is the area where the 200-plus are buried. - A roll call of names that document a shameful era in New Zealand's history. - These two ` that one and that one ` they're brother and sister, and they belong to my oldest brother. - While whanau couldn't have afforded headstones, money was paid for the burials. - They had to pay �1, five shillings to buy a plot to bury them in. But they dug their own holes, and they buried their own loved ones. They gave money away for nothing. - What do you want to see there? - A monument for them. And their names written down. And just by having their names written down for people to see ` that's their voice. They're speaking up. - But the lack of acknowledgement for those who have passed is just part of Phyllis' mamae. Where Pukekohe Hill School stands today is the site of the former Pukekohe Maori School, the only place in the country where tamariki were educated separately, kept away from Pakeha classrooms. It opened in 1952, next to the onion fields where their parents worked. Phyllis started school here in 1956. - I was there from 5 until... I was 11. - Today, the kura is barely recognisable, but Phyllis has vivid recollections of what happened to her here. are there painful memories coming back here? - Yeah, brings back... horrible memories. - When you started school, you only spoke te Reo? - Yes. - You weren't allowed to speak te Reo, though, at this school? - Not at all. I asked to go to the toilet. 'Kei te pirangi au e te haere ki te wharepaku?' And she told me, 'Don't use that dirty language in here. 'You leave it out the gate.' It was a place where they... said they were educating us, but why educate us and abuse us at the same time? We got caned. We got strapped. - So you suffered verbal abuse, physical abuse... Was there sexual abuse as well? - Of course it happened. Of course it happened in our school. There's no denying that. At that time, I was 10 years old. I had just lost my mum. Pedal! Pedal fast! Go! - Phyllis has been a teacher for 41 years. - (CHILDREN SHRIEK, GIGGLE) - (LAUGHS) - Her dedication to children er motivation for not remaining silent any longer. - She lived it. She should absolutely be sharing, and she should never stop, and we should be supporting her to do that, uh, and we will. - Whanau have put up with decades of loss and trauma, but now Franklin Local Board member Logan Soole says they're committed to working with mana whenua to officially acknowledge the unnamed graves. - We have reached out to Central Government, the Minister as well. A letter's come from the Mayor. - How important is it for Pukekohe to right the wrongs of the past? - Incredibly important. We can't do nothing. We absolutely cannot do nothing. - Nga Hau e Wha is an urban marae in Pukekohe, built in 1985. Before this, the town's bylaws prohibited Maori from gathering together, which meant no marae were allowed here. This Maori community hall was opened in 1959 ` the first venue in the area where Maori were free to congregate. Hard to imagine, isn't it? - Yeah. It wasn't like it was hundreds of years ago. It was just as recent as the '60s. So it wasn't so long ago. We acknowledge and... we are so proud and love our kaumatua and kuia that have stood up and spoken out against the atrocities of the past. - Pastor Charles Tuhua is part of Nga Hau e Wha's Marae Committee, which is in negotiations with the council and Government agencies to see how things can be put right. - An apology is a minimum, but also, what could a possible future outcome look like in terms of reconciliation and healing? - Nga Hau e Wha wants to see a wharekura built on this empty site next to the marae ` what they see as a small step towards healing the intergenerational harm that was caused by degrading and racist laws. - It will give a tangible outcome to those that have fought this battle, who had to endure it over time, but also for their generations ` their tamariki, mokopuna ` will be an opportunity for their future. - Now 71, Phyllis gives talks about what happened in Pukekohe, educating others about the past in the hope restoring the mana for her whanau. You've been fighting for some kind of remembrance ` a plaque or something ` here for so long. - Oh, absolutely. - What's holding it up? - Politics. (CHUCKLES SHORTLY) The Government. - You want to see it in your lifetime? - Absolutely determined. We're going to make sure that these babies will get recognition, even if I have to build it myself. - The Minister of Maori-Crown Relations, Te Arawhiti, the Honourable Kelvin Davis, understands Auckland Council is considering a formal acknowledgement and an apology. It is also looking at a memorial to remember the Maori children buried in Pukekohe Public Cemetery. Te Arawhiti is engaging with Auckland Council to determine what part the Crown may play in that process. After the break on our hui ` kua rewa wawe te tau poti Maori. The Maori election season has started early ` Meka Whaitiri with Labour one day, Te Pati Maori the next; and Dr Elizabeth Kerekere resigns from the Greens. Our political panel, former New Zealand First MP Jenny Marcroft and Professor Ella Henry join us next to discuss. From nature to you. Introducing Botanica's first aerosol-free automatic spray, with fragrances infused with responsibly sourced natural ingredients to keep your home fresh 24/7. Botanica - inspired by nature. (LAUGHTER AND CHATTER) (LIVELY MUSIC PLAYS) (PEOPLE GASP) (BELLOWS) Call this a feast?! Fetch more foodage! (DRAMATIC MUSIC) M'lady. (PEOPLE CHATTER) (EPIC MUSIC) (PEOPLE CHEER) Is this Greek salad? Nah, it's from New Zealand, eh! VOICEOVER: Four Square. What'll it be today? He wiki nui, he korero nui te haere ake ` he wahine toa te kaupapa, no reira me wahine toa nga kaikorero. Joining us on our panel is former New Zealand First MP Jenny Marcroft and Professor Ella Henry. Tena korua, e aku tuawahine. Let's get right into it. Big shock, uh, with, obviously, the resignation of Meka Whaitiri from the Labour Party, and then going to the Maori Party ` or not? - Um, we have a long history of Maori in politics going from one party to another ` and that's certainly the case with Meka ` or leaving and walking away altogether. So it may well be that there` it's an early start to the political games and dances. - Mm. Jenny? I mean, New Zealand First is not foreign to people leaving and then, you know, moving on to other parties and the like. It's happened before. - Well, with` Obviously, the history of New Zealand First setting up was` came from Winston Peters leaving the National Party. Um, but he did the right thing then ` he went and resought his mandate to come back. And I think that's the difference here, is that we've seen, um... in the two cases of what we've seen in the last week, two MPs leave their parties and kind of weasel their way out of triggering and evoking the Electoral Integrity Act so they've remained in Parliament. So there is a difference to the way that we've seen this played out in the last week. - Do you think there will be a backlash? Let's talk about Meka. Do you think there will be a backlash for her leaving Labour ` she was a Labour Party MP for Ikaroa-Rawhiti ` and going to another party, or not? - Not from her party. Previous party. Not from the Labour Party. They've made a commitment to move this along and out of the news cycle as quickly as possibly, and we saw Willie Jackson yesterday ` he came out and he was extremely magnanimous about saying he took responsibility for some of the mamae she was feeling and could have done more. Um` Which was very generous of him, to say that. Uh... Did he need to? No. I think he perhaps could have just left the space silent... - Right. - ...and allowed Meka ` in her own time, obviously; it's not happening in a hurry ` to account for her own actions. - Ella, let's talk about the backlash potentially from the electorate. Do you think that Maori voters ` say, for instance, in Ikaroa-Rawhiti ` are people who vote for those who are loyal to their parties or not? Will they follow the person? - Well, political science theory argues that people vote for parties and then policies and, finally, people. My experience of the Maori world is we vote for people... - Mm. ...and that in fact, the policies are probably` which should be at the top of the list, are often at the bottom of it. Um, and because of Meka's relationship with Parekura and his great` you know, the great love they have for him, I think it's going to be a contentious issue for many whanau, uh, and communities. And they've already been battered, the Tairawhiti coast. But it is also gonna be something that's gonna hopefully get people talking. Because we have a terrible participation rate at elections, and sometimes I think contentious issues like this at least get us together having a korero and having a think about how we're going to give our vote. - You raise a really good point about the things that people in Ikaroa-Rawhiti have faced recently, and this is a person who is the minister responsible for leading the recovery in that electorate. So why now, do you think, Ella? - Well, I-I mean, I think there's a suitable amount of time before the mandate will be sorted, the electoral process for whether the people support her or whether they support a particular party. I do feel like, um, she has had mamae that she's expressed. And` And there's been big changes. To some degree, I guess, maybe, she may be saying to her people, 'I can do more from outside of this caucus than I can from within it.' - Mm. - Which is absolute rubbish, because... - (LAUGHS) Yeah. - ...as you know, you have to be really close to those leavers of power. - Yeah. - And once you're outside of that government` And she was a minister; she won't have the same influence. She won't have the same` She won't be pushing on an open door. She'll be having to kick the shut door. So she won't have that ability to push from` She can make a noise, take a lot of photo opportunities, but she won't actually have that position, and they have lost their champion. - Well` - So Chris Hipkins needs to replace her as quickly as possible with someone from the Coast... - Yeah. - ...who can be their champion, because` They need to get on with that. - I will come to that point. Or was it another symptom of the fact that Labour wasn't taking on board the leadership that she was providing? I mean, this is a person who was very close to that community, who was in the community a lot. Her whanau ` very staunch whanau in Ikaroa-Rawhiti. Do you think that there's an issue`? I mean, Willie, as you said, was magnanimous, but is this a leadership issue that we've seen in Labour since the change in Prime Minister? - No, I think the Prime Minister always has the right to choose his own Cabinet. - Mm. - Um, and there are always gonna be people who are disgruntled about where they fall on the list, what positions they hold, but you need to... basically put a stone on your tongue, suck it up, get on with the hard work, and then you'll be reconsidered in due course. - The Green Party ` let's talk about Dr Elizabeth Kerekere as well. The investigation into her was not finished, and yet the leaks were coming out, confidential things were talked about ` coordination, it seems, of communications against her. She was provisionally placed Number Four on the Green Party list for this election. What do you make of it all, Ella? - Well, as I said previously, one is a case of moving towards a party, and the other is` you know, leaving one to go to another, and this is a case of leaving a party and Parliament. So I think that speaks volumes about where Dr Kerekere is right now in` politically. Um, she feels, obviously, disgruntled enough not only to leave the Government` uh, to leave the Green Party but also to leave Parliament. I think that speaks volumes for, perhaps, that mamae you spoke about and how hard it is sometimes for some wahine in the electoral system. - Is the point that Willie was trying to make that Parliament doesn't look after wahine Maori? These are staunch women that we're talking about here. Is it not the right environment, or is there something that should be done to fix the environment that looks after our staunch wahine ` Maori champions, in fact? - Well, I` you know, I will acknowledge that Willie is a very good supporter for women, and he clearly showed that, um, in his, uh, you know, piece he did yesterday on TV. And we need more men like that, who are supporting wahine. Because it is a tough and brutal place. Politics is not` you know, it's not Tiddlywinks, as they say, but it does take a certain type of person who is able to, um, suck up the blows that come and carry on for the party. - Mm. - It is a very difficult thing to do, um, but it speaks volumes to the character of the person that can do that. And if you're` I suppose if you feel that you get to the end of the line and don't think you've got any movement forward ` you still have something to give ` of course you'll look around for somewhere else to go. But it's how do you do that, and what integrity do you do that with? - Professor Henry, are these political parties capable of the introspection (CHUCKLES) required to either review or replace or restore or reinvigorate themselves before an election campaign ` particularly for the next charge, for Maori, wahine Maori, coming into Parliament? - I mean, let's be very clear. We've got four months` five months left. And the next five months are really the games ` you know, the, um.. the gladiatorial games that happen before an election. But the reality is that Maori are still... we're still working our way towards what our political landscape looks like. I mean, we are right across every part of the sphere, um, and` and that's about the diversity of Maori, but the reality is by 2040, the majority of this country will be brown, and a significant chunk of them will be Maori. So we have to figure out as a people how we cope with Westminster democracy, how we cope with electoral systems and how we ensure that our aspirations still remain at the front and centre of whoever we put into that august building. - Let's talk about the impacts in October. Is any of this gonna matter in October, do you think, Jenny? - Um` - Or is there so much time between now and then that people will forget about it? - Well, I` There is a certain amount of population that aren't happy with the disproportion or the proportionality that's been affected by these latest two defections. So that will play to some people. We will see a greater collaboration around the left, a stronger move to the right ` that's` we're seeing that right now. So what I'm seeing is, you know, we could possibly have the clash of the kingmakers come forward for Election Day. So... It's not certain yet. You know, Te Pati Maori jumping too soon, I feel. - Yeah? - You know, they're all hat, no cattle at the moment, and, um... You know, they're gonna do a big show tomorrow ` it is showtime tomorrow at Parliament. - Yeah. - I heard there's talk of powhiri to bring Meka on to a place that she already is in. - OK. - So, you know, they're gonna use the opportunities. - Gotta leave it there, but I did like the jazz hands and also the 'clash of the kingmakers'. - (LAUGHS) - Or queenmakers! - Or queen` That's` Absolutely. - Hey, you never know. (LAUGHS) - Tena korua. Nga mihi nui. Professor Henry, Ngati Kahu ki Whangaroa ` just wanted to get that in; Jenny Marcroft, Ngapuhi. Tena korua. Nga mihi nui ki a korua. Stay with us, because after this quick break, we have award-winning Maori musician Rei. - # Te rongoa # kia whakahono, # kia whakahono. # - Huia, huia, tuituia mai ano ki ta tatou hui, e nga iwi. This week in our New Zealand Music Month series, we feature award-winning Maori musician Rei, who's just released his new waiata 'All We Got'. Kia titiro ake ra tatou. Hey, Rei, Huia ` tena korua. Thank you both so much for going on the programme. Really appreciate your time. And this is cool, eh? This is a cool vibe, man. - Yeah. - You, know Ngati Raukawa, Ngati Porou, doitz. - Doitz as. - Doitz hard. - (LAUGHS) Where did this dynamic duo come from? - (CHUCKLES) Ooh, good question. Where is the Rei/Huia genesis? Uh, I moved up from Poneke about eight years ago, up to Tamaki Makaurau. I was looking for studios up here and, um, came across Kog Studio, which is the studio Huia runs with her tane, Chris. And, yeah, got along with them really well, made some tunes with them, did the dishes when I went out there, so I got invited back. - Absolutely. - (CHUCKLES) - I think that was an important part. - Helped with the rent? - (LAUGHTER) - Yeah, exactly. Ate some of their food. But, you know, brought some kai as well. - Does help. Always. - And, yeah, we just been kind of, yeah, working together since then and doing a bit more` I produce quite a lot of stuff for Huia as well, um, and she does quite a lot of vocal work on my waiata. - And you produce a lot of your own stuff, right? - Yeah. I do like 90% of it. - It seems to work, though, eh? Cos if you listen, you can kind of just` it's definitely you. - It's a sound, eh? Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's` - It's uniquely you, you know? - Yeah. It's always the benefit of being self-produced is that, like, I hear a song, I hear a vision and I can just sit down at my desk and, you know, make it come to life. That being said, I do really appreciate getting other people's ideas on it, and mixing it with Chris at Kog ` like, he makes my beats sound a lot better than they actually are. I mean, my beats are good, but he really lifts them up. - It's the slick. You just wanna make it... It just highlights... - Yeah, that polish. - Puts the makeup on, like Chris would say yeah. - It's that. It's that. Tote. - Yeah, that's right. - (CHUCKLES) - You write in Maori, bilingually, in songs with a very unique style. - Mm. - Right? So talk to me a bit about that process. Cos it must be kind of interesting creatively... Yeah. - ...and then try to make sure that you implement that the way that you want it to go. - Yeah. You know, like, I started out writing only English songs... - Yeah. - ...and then just kind of` like, over my 20s, as I became more, like, solid in myself, I kind of became more solid in my own relationship with my taha Maori; like, the Reo and kaupapa Maori just started seeping into my music more and more. - How did you do that? - Just... What do you mean? The identity stuff? - Yeah. - Oosh. Mm. He patai nui tena. - (LAUGHS) - Ae. - Well, obviously, I learnt... spent a lot of time learning Reo at high school and at uni and stuff ` that helped ground me. Learning things from my whanau and everything. Vipassana meditation also helped me a lot with my identity stuff. - Ah. - It's a 10-day meditation course just outside of Auckland, in the bush ` Kaukapakapa. It just, like, helps you shut everything out when you don't need all that external stuff and just focus more on the creative flow when you're in that` You know, cos when you're a creative, you're always chasing that kind of like flow state where you're not thinking about all of this and all of that and who to please and... - 'Is someone gonna like this or not?' - Yeah. - Ah, OK. - 'What racism still is involved in our industry 'where it's gonna be hard to put this into my song?' Like, all that stuff. It makes you go, 'Well, yeah, I could think about that, 'or I can think about what I wanna do.' - Yeah. - It's just` Yeah, it's just easier to just tap into that flow and just write, create. - I think that explains a lot ` and potentially explains what we're gonna see... - Mm. - ...in here tonight. Because yes, it is a song, but it's gonna be a collection, a bit of a mix of different things, right? - Yeah. That's it. Um, yeah, it's a bit of a mash-up tonight. I'm doing a song that me and Huia put out together called Te Whakapono, and it's mashed up with my brand-new waiata All We Got. - Yes! - Which is out now. - Tena koe. - (LAUGHS) - Thank you very much. Looking forward to the song. Nga mihi. - Kia ora. - Kia ora. - Let's go. - BOTH: # Kotahitanga # te rongoa # kia whakahono, # kia whakahono. - # Ohh, oh. - # Drop! (UPTEMPO DRUM & BASS MUSIC) - # BOTH: Te whakapono. # Aio. # Te whakapono. # 'Ey. # Let's go. - # Te whakapono. - RAPS: # Ka taka te panguru ka rangona te parekareka, # whakapiki I te wairua ki runga. Kia rewarewa. # Kararehe o te po au pera i te pekapeka. # He pono taku. Kaore au mo te korero tekateka. # Ka taka te panguru ka rangona te parekareka, # whakapiki I te wairua ki runga. Kia rewarewa. # Kararehe o te po au pera i te pekapeka. # He pono taku. Kaore au mo te korero tekateka. - # Kia rangona... - Shee! - ...# te oro, # he whakapono. - # He whakapono. - # He whakapono. - # He whakapono. - # Kotahitanga... - # Kua tahi. - # ...e rongoa... - # E rongoa. - # ...kia whakahono... - # Kia whakahono. - # ...kia whakahono. # Ohh, oh. - Tahi, rua, toru, tukua! # Switch up, switch up. # 'Ey. # All we got is time. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - BOTH: # He pounamu ano te wa. # He pounamu ano te wa. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - RAPS: # Used to be so caught up on the next thing ` # on the next girl, on the next wing. # Ask my ex-girl I ended to be givin' my love and attention. # Have you ever been so driven that you drive straight past # all the good things that made a difference in your life? # Kia ha ki roto. Kia ha ki waho. # Kia tau ki raro te rangimarie. # Kia ha ki roto, kia ha ki waho. # He koha o ia ra e. - BACKING TRACK: # All my love to give. - # And I'm done with the chasin', # the chasin', oh! # Who says we can't # make something out of nothing? # I'm sick of rushing round my mind... # Bruh. - BOTH: # ...when all we got is time. # - # He pounamu ano te wa. - He pounamu. - # He pounamu ano te wa. # He pounamu ano te wa. - # All we got. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - # All we got is time. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - # All we got. - # He pounamu ano te wa. - # All we got # is time. # He pounamu ano te wa. # - Mean. That's us for this week. Join us next week for more. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. Captions by Maeve Kelly. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023