TENA TATOU KATOA, I'M REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, NAU MAI KI NEWSHUB NATION. ON THE PROGRAMME TODAY ` REVEALING THE HIDDEN DETAILS IN THE BUDGET WITH FINANCE MINISTER GRANT ROBERTSON. BIG BUDGET WINNERS ` OUR GAMING INDUSTRY IS LEVELLING UP. AND ONE MP'S STORY OF LONGING AND REUNION, COMING UP ON BACKSTORY. CAPTIONS BY KATE MCCULLOUGH AND SAM BAKER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 FIRST IN THE PROGRAMME TODAY ` GOVERNMENT BUDGET WEEK. IT'S BEEN ALL BUDGET, ALL THE TIME. BUT DIG INTO THE FINE PRINT, AND THERE ARE A FEW SECRETS AND SURPRISES TO BE DISCOVERED IN GRANT ROBERTSON'S PLANS. I BEGAN BY ASKING THE FINANCE MINISTER ABOUT PROJECTIONS THAT 150,000 PEOPLE WILL LOSE THEIR JOBS IN A TOUGH YEAR AHEAD. YEAH, AND LOOK, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A RESULT OF TREASURY'S VIEW THAT THE ECONOMY IS SLOWING DOWN, AND THAT IS A GLOBAL TREND. THAT IS THEIR FORECAST AND PROJECTION. I ALWAYS REGARD IT AS A PART OF MY JOB TO BE ABLE TO LIMIT THAT. WE ARE IN A SLOWING ECONOMY, AND UNFORTUNATELY, ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THAT IS THAT MORE PEOPLE MAY WELL BECOME UNEMPLOYED. WE'RE ALSO IN AN INFLATIONARY PERIOD, SO WHILE PEOPLE MIGHT BE TREADING WATER RIGHT NOW IN THEIR JOBS AND HANGING ON, MAKING ENDS MEET, IT CAN BE DEVASTATING` IT WILL BE DEVASTATING FOR THOSE PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES IF THEY ARE MADE UNEMPLOYED IN THIS ENVIRONMENT. VERY MUCH. AS I SAY, ONE OF THE JOBS I'VE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY THE WHOLE TIME I'VE BEEN FINANCE MINISTER IS TO KEEP AS MANY PEOPLE IN WORK AS POSSIBLE. WE'RE COMING INTO THE SLOWING ECONOMY WITH UNEMPLOYMENT AT 3.4%. THAT'S A MUCH BETTER STARTING POINT THAN WHAT WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT BE WHEN IT CAME TO COVID. BUT WE HAVE TO TRY AND MAKE SURE WE HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH THIS. THERE ARE BETTER DAYS AHEAD. THE TREASURY'S FORECAST ALSO SHOWS WAGES WILL OUTPACE INFLATION AS WE GO THROUGH THE NEXT PERIOD OF TIME. SO YES, A DIFFICULT PERIOD FOR NEW ZEALANDERS, BUT ACTUALLY, LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. HOW SURE ARE YOU ABOUT THE MEASURES, THE BORROWING AND THE SPENDING THAT YOU'VE ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY, THAT THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE INFLATIONARY? HAVE YOU RUN THE RULER RIGHT OVER THAT? WE CERTAINLY HAVE, AND TREASURY BASE THEIR FORECASTS ON OUR INVESTMENTS. THEY ARE SAYING THAT INFLATION WILL COME DOWN 3.3% NEXT YEAR, AND THEN 2.5% THE YEAR AFTER. ON THE COST OF LIVING, WE WENT LOOKING FOR INITIATIVES THAT WE THOUGHT WOULD EASE PRESSURE ON PEOPLE BUT NOT EXACERBATE INFLATION UNDULY. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THOSE TARGETED THINGS AROUND ECE, PUBLIC TRANSPORT, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO EASE THE COST OF LIVING PRESSURE, BUT AN UNTARGETED TAX CUT, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD HAVE THE RISK OF BEING QUITE INFLATIONARY. SO WE'VE WORKED HARD ON THAT, AND TREASURY'S FORECAST SHOW THAT IT WILL SEE INFLATION COME DOWN. WITH THAT ECE SUBSIDY BEING EXTENDED TO 2-YEAR-OLDS, THAT'S AROUND $7000 A YEAR FOR A FAMILY, USING YOUR AVERAGE OR AROUND $133 A WEEK. WHERE DOES THAT MONEY GO? THAT WILL GO TO A LOT OF OTHER PRESSURES THEY HAVE GOT. ONE OF THINGS WE HAVE HEARD FROM PEOPLE IS THE PRICE OF FOOD IS A MASSIVE ISSUE FOR THEM. IT IS VERY HARD FOR A GOVERNMENT TO GET TO THE PRICE OF FOOD. WE ARE DOING THAT WITH THE WORK WE ARE DOING IN SUPERMARKET REFORM, BUT THAT TAKES TIME. SO WHAT THIS DOES IS RELIEVE PRESSURE, SO IT IS NOT INJECTING EXTRA MONEY INTO SOMEONE'S POCKET, IT IS SAYING WE'RE GOING TO HELP YOU SHIFT YOUR EXPENDITURE AROUND AND HELP YOU DEAL WITH OTHER COST OF LIVING ISSUES WHILE REDUCING THIS. IT'S ALSO WORTH POINTING OUT WITH THE ECE, IT DOESN'T COME IN UNTIL MARCH NEXT YEAR. I KNOW FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT'S DISAPPOINTING. THERE'S A LOT OF ADMINISTRATIVE REASONS FOR THAT. IT'S ALSO TRUE TO SAY THAT BY IT BEING MARCH NEXT YEAR, THIS IMMEDIATE PERIOD WHERE INFLATION IS AN ISSUE, THAT MONEY WON'T BE COMING INTO THE ECONOMY. HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT INFLATION HAS NOW PEAKED? BECAUSE BANKS SEEM GENERALLY SCEPTICAL ABOUT THIS, AND THE OPPOSITION SAYS THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S INVESTMENT, YOU WOULD SAY, THEY SAY ADDICTION TO SPENDING, IT WILL BE INFLATIONARY. I MEAN, THE OLD STORY, IF YOU PUT 10 ECONOMISTS IN A ROOM, YOU'LL GET 13 OPINIONS. FORECASTING'S HARD. TREASURY'S FORECAST HELD UP PRETTY WELL, WHEN YOU COMPARE THEM TO OTHERS, BUT THEY ARE INDEPENDENT FORECASTS. THEY DO THEM WITHOUT THE GOVERNMENT'S INVOLVEMENT. FOR ME, AS THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, I HAVE TO USE THEM. I DON'T HAVE AN OPTION. I CAN'T PICK ANOTHER FORECAST. DO YOU THINK IT'S PEAKED? I DO BELIEVE INFLATION HAS PEAKED. AND I ACTUALLY THINK MOST ECONOMISTS THINK INFLATION'S PEAKED. THE QUESTION THEY'RE ASKING IS HOW QUICKLY DOES IT COME DOWN. THE OTHER PLAYER IN THIS INFLATION CYCLE IS THE RESERVE BANK. ECONOMISTS ARE SAYING SINCE THE BUDGET, THIS MAY GIVE THE RESERVE BANK GOVERNOR ADRIAN ORR PAUSE, THAT HE MAY NOW DO TWO MORE RATE HIKES RATHER THAN JUST THE ONE WE WERE EXPECTING. I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY CAUSE FOR THAT IN THE BUDGET NUMBERS THAT ARE HERE TODAY. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXTRA SPENDING THAT WE ARE DOING, IN TERMS OF COST OF LIVING TYPE STUFF, IT IS MODEST. THE RESERVE BANK WILL MAKE ITS OWN DECISIONS INDEPENDENT. IT ALSO HAS TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT MUCH MORE THAN WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS. THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL ECONOMY, ISSUES TO DO WITH THE SUPPLY CHAIN, IMMIGRATION, WAGE PRESSURE, BUT WE HAVE TAKEN OUR DECISIONS BASED ON THE FACT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT PUTTING UNDUE PRESSURE ON INFLATION, AND THE TREASURY FORECASTS DO SHOW THAT. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TELEGRAPHING THAT YOU DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY. AS I SAY, IT'S TOTALLY UP TO HIM, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT ON THE PROCESS THAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH. THE BIG DIFFERENCE WE DO HAVE BETWEEN WHAT WE DID, WHAT WE WERE SAYING AT THE END OF LAST YEAR AND NOW, IS THE CYCLONE, AND THE IMPACT OF THAT, AND I THINK ALL NEW ZEALANDERS WOULD WANT US TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT PEOPLE THROUGH THAT. DOES THE LEFT HAND KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT HAND IS DOING BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE RESERVE BANK? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE MOVING IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. YOU HAVE THE SAME GOAL, BUT ADRIAN ORR IS TRYING TO CRUSH INFLATION, AND YOU SEEM TO BE TAKING A SLIGHTLY SOFTER APPROACH WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN GOVERNMENT. I THINK WHAT WE DO IS MUTUALLY SUPPORTIVE, AND WHEN YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE TREASURY'S BUDGET` IS IT, THOUGH? IT IS. IF YOU LET ME GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE. WITHIN THE TREASURY'S BUDGET, ECONOMIC AND FISCAL UPDATE, YOU'LL SEE A MEASURE OF GOVERNMENT CONSUMPTION. THAT'S GOING DOWN 5%. IT'S ALREADY STARTED GOING DOWN AND IT'S GOING DOWN 5% UP UNTIL THE END OF 2024. SO WE ARE. WE'RE TAKING THAT COVID SPENDING THAT WE DID OUT OF THE ECONOMY, WHICH SUPPORTS THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL OF THE RESERVE BANK, SO I BELIEVE THEY ARE MUTUALLY REINFORCING. ARE THEY CONFLICTING, THOUGH, WHAT YOU'RE DOING? NO, THEY'RE NOT CONFLICTING. WE JUST HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ROLES IN THE ECONOMY. BUT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE RESERVE BANK, THEIR JOB IS TO GET INFLATION BACK DOWN TO 1% TO 3% OVER THE MEDIUM TERM. WHAT THE TREASURY FORECASTS SHOW IS THAT THAT HAPPENS, SO I DO BELIEVE THEY'RE MUTUALLY REINFORCING. TREASURY ALSO SHOWS, AS A RESULT OF YESTERDAY'S BUDGET THAT INTEREST RATES ARE LIKELY TO STAY HIGHER FOR LONGER, AND THAT IS TAKING MONEY OUT OF NEW ZEALANDERS' POCKETS TOO, ISN'T IT? YEAH, SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN THEY SAY 'HIGHER FOR LONGER' BECAUSE THEY MEAN HIGHER FOR LONGER FROM THE FORECAST WE HAD IN DECEMBER. WHICH IS HIGHER FOR LONGER. YEAH, YEAH, BUT THAT IS A RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN DECEMBER AND NOW, WHICH IS THE CYCLONE AND THE FLOOD EVENTS, AND THEY SAY THAT VERY SPECIFICALLY IN THE BUDGET. DOES THIS BUDGET ALSO HAVE AN IMPACT? WELL, SOME OF OUR RESPONSE TO THE CYCLONE MAY HAVE SOME OF AN IMPACT, BUT ACTUALLY IT'S MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITHIN THE DEMAND IN THE ECONOMY TO RECOVER AND REBUILD FROM THE CYCLONE. ANOTHER AREA OF INTEREST FOR KIWIS AT HOME WILL BE HOUSING. WHAT IS THE OUTLOOK FOR HOUSING EXACTLY? BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME WORRYING FIGURES FOR HOMEOWNERS IN AMONGST` YEAH, WELL, OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY'S BEEN SEEING THE DECLINE IN HOUSE PRICES OVER THE LAST SORT OF WHILE, AND IT CLEARLY GOT UNSUSTAINABLY HIGH, BUT CLEARLY FOR PEOPLE WHO BORROWED MONEY DURING THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THIS IS A DIFFICULT PERIOD OF TIME, BECAUSE THEY BORROWED AT VERY LOW INTEREST RATES. WE CLEARLY HAD HIGHER INTEREST RATES AT THE MOMENT. AND THEY PAID HIGH PRICES. THEY DID AS WELL, AND IT WAS A VERY` YOU KNOW, SO FOR THAT GROUP OF BUYERS AND MORTGAGE HOLDERS, IT IS A VERY CHALLENGING TIME. OVERALL, THE PICTURE AROUND HOUSING, I MEAN, THE BIT THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S CORE RESPONSIBILITY IS ` WHICH IS THE BUILDING OF STATE HOUSES, PUBLIC HOUSES ` WE'VE GOT FURTHER INVESTMENT HERE IN THAT OUT TO 2025, AND I THINK THAT'S AN AREA WHERE THE GOVERNMENT CAN JUSTIFIABLY BE PROUD OF WHAT WE'VE DONE. I WANT TO COME BACK TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT WHO HAVE BORROWED AT HIGH PRICES, LOW INTEREST RATES AND ARE NOW FACING MUCH HIGHER HIKES AND A FALLING MARKET. THEY'VE REALLY BEEN CAUGHT OUT IN THIS CYCLE, HAVEN'T THEY? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CAUGHT OUT, BUT THEY'VE CERTAINLY BEEN CAUGHT UP IN IT, AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BANKS DO WHEN THEY LEND MONEY IS THEY STRESS TEST BORROWERS ABOVE THE RATE AT WHICH THEY BORROW, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE'S THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT, SO THAT'S PART OF BEING FACTORED IN. IT WILL PUT PRESSURE ON THOSE HOUSEHOLDS, BUT IF THE STRESS-TESTING WORKS PROPERLY, IT SHOULDN'T LEAD THEM TO A MORTGAGEE SALE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, SO I'M NOT DENYING THE PRESSURE ON THOSE HOUSEHOLDS. THERE ARE BETTER TIMES TO COME. INFLATION IS COMING DOWN, MORTGAGE RATES WILL COME DOWN. BUT, YEAH, IF YOU'VE BORROWED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND I... YOU KNOW, I AMONG MANY OTHER PEOPLE WAS ASKED ABOUT THAT A LOT, AND I CAN RECALL STANDING HERE IN PARLIAMENT AND SAYING TO REPORTERS, 'YES, IF YOU'RE BORROWING NOW, 'ALWAYS REMEMBER THE RATE AT WHICH YOU'RE BORROWING NOW WILL NOT 'BE THE RATE THAT YOU REPAY YOUR MORTGAGE AT.' WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TERMS OF A GOVERNMENT REVIEW OF THE ECONOMIC DECISIONS THAT WERE TAKEN DURING COVID THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL SAY IN PART LED TO THESE HIGH HOUSE PRICES, LED TO THIS INFLATIONARY ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE IN? WILL THE GOVERNMENT HOLD THAT REVIEW SO THAT WE CAN SEE WHAT WAS GOOD AND WHAT WAS BAD? I FEEL LIKE THERE'S BEEN` AND THAT'S HAPPENING. WHEN? SO, THE ROYAL COMMISSION IS GETTING ITSELF UNDERWAY RIGHT NOW, AND WITHIN THE TERMS OF REFERENCE FOR THE ROYAL COMMISSION THAT WE'VE ALREADY AGREED IS THE GOVERNMENT'S ECONOMIC RESPONSE, INCLUDING THE MONETARY POLICY RESPONSE. WHAT I WOULD SAY, THOUGH, IS THAT WE DON'T GET THE LUXURY OF GOVERNING IN HINDSIGHT, AND I GET THE FACT THAT WE SHOULD DEFINITELY DO A REVIEW AND DEFINITELY LEARN LESSONS, BUT I STAND BY THE DECISIONS WE MADE. I GENUINELY BELIEVE WE SAVED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND WE KEPT BUSINESSES AFLOAT. NOW, PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE THEIR JUDGEMENTS WHEN WE DO GO AND DO THAT REVIEW. BUT IN THE MOMENT WE DON'T HAVE THAT BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT AND I STAND BY WHAT WE DID. BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK BACK AND TO LEARN LESSONS, BECAUSE THERE WILL BE THINGS THAT OTHER GOVERNMENTS MAY BE ABLE TO CARRY FORWARD, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES SOME ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. I TOTALLY AGREE. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING THE ROYAL COMMISSION. SO WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG? OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO GET THROUGH COVID. I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS I REMEMBER, THERE WERE CALLS TO SORT OF START IT WHEN WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. AND THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO YOU NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE REVIEW WERE DOING THE ACTUAL WORK. IT IS UNDERWAY AND IT'S A BIG JOB. AND IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE WORLD, MOST COUNTRIES ARE TAKING THEIR TIME TO DO IT THOROUGHLY. AND I DO EXPECT THAT IT SHOULD BE A THOROUGH JOB, AND I DO EXPECT TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. IS IT ALSO POLITICS, BECAUSE THIS WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE ELECTION? I JUST THINK IT TAKES THE TIME IT TAKES. AND THEN WHEN IS IT SUPPOSED TO REPORT BACK? I BELIEVE IT'S IN 2024. OBVIOUSLY, I'M NOT DAY TO DAY RESPONSIBLE. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER ISSUE WHICH IS FACING HOUSEHOLDS, WHICH IS` YOU MENTIONED IT BRIEFLY BEFORE, WHICH IS THE COST OF FOOD. IS THERE REALLY NOTHING THAT YOU COULD DO OR FIND TO BRING SOME RELIEF IN THAT AREA FOR KIWIS? WE'VE TAKEN THE POSITION THAT WE'RE MUCH BETTER OFF SUPPORTING PEOPLE IN THE HERE AND NOW WITH THEIR INCOMES, BUT ADDRESSING THE UNDERLYING ISSUES IN SUPERMARKET COMPETITION IS THAT. AND SO THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING ON OPENING UP, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COVENANTS ON LAND, GETTING RID OF THOSE, MAKING SURE THAT NEW ENTRANTS INTO THE MARKET CAN GET INTO THE WHOLESALE END OF THE MARKET, THOSE CHANGES WILL TAKE TIME. THAT'S ALL LONG-TERM STUFF. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT WILL HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE. IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE` ANY SHORT-TERM MEASURE THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT, DOES NOT NECESSARILY THAT. THERE WOULD BE A WAY OF DOING IT. YOU COULD TAKE GST OFF ABSOLUTELY ALL FOOD, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD START ANOTHER DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER YOU SHOULD TAKE IT OFF TAKEAWAYS OR NOT. OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE HAD THIS` 'IS IT COOKED CHICKEN OR A FROZEN CHICKEN?' YOU KNOW, YOU END UP IN THESE SORTS OF DEBATES WHEN ACTUALLY YOU CAN DO MORE BY DELIVERING SUPPORT TO PEOPLE'S INCOMES WHILE GETTING THOSE COMPETITION ISSUES RIGHT. SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AT? IT USED TO BE LABOUR PARTY POLICY ONCE UPON A TIME, TO TAKE GST OFF FRESH FRUIT AND VEGETABLES, AND IT JUST DOESN'T DELIVER THE DIFFERENCE. TO BE FRANK, IF IT'S LOW AND MIDDLE-INCOME HOUSEHOLDS, THERE ARE BETTER WAYS OF DELIVERING SUPPORT TO THEM, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE DONE. CAN THEY EXPECT MORE SUPPORT TOWARDS THE ELECTION? ELECTION POLICY HASN'T BEEN SET YET. THIS IS THE BUDGET PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK WE'VE DONE` YOU'LL BE WORKING ON IT RIGHT NOW, THOUGH. OF COURSE WE ARE, BUT WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON DELIVERING A BUDGET THAT DELIVERS WHAT I THINK IS THE RIGHT PACKAGE AT THIS TIME. WE WILL GET INTO AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN. PEOPLE WILL MAKE THEIR PROMISES. WHAT I WOULD SAY AS THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, IS THE AMOUNT OF DISCRETIONARY SPENDING AVAILABLE OUT OF THIS BUDGET FOR FUTURE YEARS IS NOT THAT LARGE. THE BUDGET ALLOWANCES THAT WE'VE GOT WHICH WE'VE INCREASED A LITTLE BIT, ARE LARGELY THERE TO MEET COST PRESSURES. SO ANYONE MAKING PROMISES IN THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN HAS TO BE ABLE TO SHOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT. SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE TO THE OPPOSITION THERE. THAT DOES BEG THE QUESTION THOUGH ` IF THERE ARE MORE SAVINGS TO BE FOUND WITHIN GOVERNMENT. YOU FOUND 4 BILLION PRETTY EASILY. BUT IS THERE MORE THERE, THOUGH? IS THE PUBLIC SERVICE VALUE FOR MONEY IN ITS ENTIRETY? BECAUSE HOUSEHOLDS ARE MAKING BIG CHANGES TO THEIR BUDGETS, CAN'T THE GOVERNMENT DO MORE? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID, AND WHILE YOU SAY IT WAS EASY, I CAN ASSURE YOU IT WASN'T. IS THERE MORE? I ALWAYS THINK WE CAN DO MORE. YEAH. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID IN THIS BUDGET IS SAY TO MINISTERS, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR NEW FUNDING, YOU HAVE GOT TO COME BACK TO US FIRST AND SAY, 'WHAT EFFICIENCIES AND SAVINGS CAN YOU FIND?' AND WE'RE GONNA KEEP THAT PROGRAMME GOING, AND I DO THINK WE CAN LOOK AT LOTS OF THINGS THAT CAN IMPROVE THE WAY THAT GOVERNMENT SERVICES WORK. DO YOU NEED TO BE A BIT MORE RUTHLESS OUT THERE? I THINK WE NEED TO BE MORE EFFICIENT. I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH BEING 'RUTHLESS', IS THAT THE BIG SUMS OF MONEY THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR, ULTIMATELY I DON'T THINK ARE THERE. THERE ARE DEFINITELY IMPROVEMENTS, BUT THE BIG SUMS THAT WOULD PAY FOR TAX CUTS, FOR EXAMPLE, I'D BE CHALLENGED TO FIND THOSE. I THINK WHAT THE REALITY OF THAT IS IS CUTS TO SERVICES TO PAY FOR IT, RATHER THAN EFFICIENCIES. I THINK ` AND I DON'T KNOW, I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST ` BUT I THINK I MIGHT HAVE FOUND A HOLE IN YOUR BUDGET. OH! I THINK IT COULD BE A $1.8 BILLION HOLE. BUT ITS IN PROJECTED REVENUE FROM TOBACCO. IT'S STILL THERE IN 2025, EVEN THOUGH THAT REVENUE PRESUMABLY... IS NOT. SO OBVIOUSLY THIS IS WITHIN THE TREASURY'S FORECAST, WHICH THEY DO INDEPENDENTLY OF THE GOVERNMENT. WE DON'T DO THOSE. SO HAVE YOU FOUND THE HOLE TOO? WHAT THE TREASURY HAVE TOLD US IS THAT THEY HAVE RECOGNISED THE IDEA THAT THERE WILL BE DECLINING REVENUE FROM TOBACCO, BUT THEY ALSO FACTOR IN INFLATION WITHIN THAT. SO WHILE THEY EXPECT THAT FEWER PEOPLE WILL BE SMOKING, SOME OF THE COSTS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL SMOKING ARE PAYING WILL BE GOING UP. THAT'S THE EXPLANATION THEY'VE GIVEN US FOR THOSE FORECASTS. DO YOU BUY IT? I HAVE TO, AND I THINK THE TREASURY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE POLICY IS, AND THEY HAVE FACTORED IN THAT DECLINE, IT'S JUST IT GETS SLIGHTLY BALANCED OUT. OK, OK. WELL, LET'S HOPE SO. BUT GOOD ON YOU FOR FINDING IT. WELL, WE'VE GOT A LONG TIME IN THAT LOCK-UP. THERE'S ALSO $14M IN THE BUDGET FOR MP SECURITY. HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE SPENT? AND CAN YOU TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THAT'S NECESSARY? SO THAT IS FOR THE PARLIAMENTARY SERVICE TO DECIDE ` THE PEOPLE WHO ORGANISE THE LIVES OF PARLIAMENTARIANS. IT'S NOT JUST FOR SECURITY OF MPS' OFFICES; IT'S ALSO AROUND THIS BUILDING HERE AND HOW WE DO ALL OF OUR WORK. UNFORTUNATELY, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT GREATER NUMBER OF THREATS FOR MPS AND JOURNALISTS AND OTHERS IN PUBLIC LIFE. AND SO THAT'S A RECOGNITION FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY SERVICE THAT THEY NEED TO DO A BIT MORE TO SUPPORT US IN OUR ELECTORATE OFFICES. WE ALL HAVE OFFICES AROUND TOWN WHERE PEOPLE ARE THERE SOMETIMES ON THEIR OWN, SO WE NEED TO PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR OUR STAFF AS WELL AS THIS BUILDING HERE. WE SAW DURING THE OCCUPATION WHAT COULD HAPPEN. SO IT'S A VERY UNFORTUNATE FACT OF LIFE THAT WE DO NEED TO PROVIDE BETTER SECURITY. AND HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT PERSONALLY? YOU'VE BEEN AN MP A LONG TIME. YEAH, I'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THAT BEFORE. I MEAN, AS THE LOCAL MP HERE IN WELLINGTON CENTRAL DURING THE OCCUPATION, THAT WAS A FRIGHTENING TIME FOR MY CONSTITUENTS. AND EQUALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THREATS MADE TO MPS DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. IT'S NOT A PLEASANT THING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH, BUT I THINK TAKING PRECAUTIONS AND INVESTING A BIT OF MONEY IN THAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. ALL RIGHT. A SIDE-HUSTLE OF FORENSIC ACCOUNTING THERE? PERHAPS, SIMON. WE'LL SEE. PERHAPS. WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT OUR POLITICAL PANEL THINKS OF THAT AFTER THE BREAK. PLUS, THE MP WHO HAD TO WAIT UNTIL SHE WAS 9 TO MEET HER MUM. THAT'S COMING UP IN BACKSTORY. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. IT WAS A GAME CHANGER ` FOR GAMING. THE INDUSTRY WAS A BIG WINNER IN THE GOVERNMENT'S BUDGET, SCORING A 20% TAX REBATE FOR KIWI DEVELOPERS. AS NEWSHUB NATION HAS REPORTED SINCE 2018, THE INDUSTRY HAS LOBBIED HARD FOR THIS FOR YEARS. WE ARE WORTH HALF A BILLION DOLLARS TO NEW ZEALAND, AND $100 MILLION OF THAT IS EXPORTS. THAT SOUNDS LIKE BIG, IMPRESSIVE FIGURES. WHAT I THINK PEOPLE JUST DON'T APPRECIATE IS THAT IT'S PEANUTS. THE FINNISH GAME SECTOR WENT FROM BEING WORTH AROUND 147 MILLION IN 2009 TO 4.2 BILLION TODAY, FOLLOWING A PERIOD OF DIRECT INVESTMENT BY THE FINNISH GOVERNMENT. GAMING HAS FALLEN BETWEEN THE CRACKS. I THINK IT HAS BEEN NEGLECTED. WE WERE SITTING HERE A YEAR AGO, SAYING YOU WERE CLOSELY LOOKING AT ALL THOSE SETTINGS. ARE YOU JUST STILL CLOSELY LOOKING AT THEM? WELL, WE'RE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE INDUSTRY. WHEN CAN THE INDUSTRY EXPECT SOME ANNOUNCEMENT AROUND THIS? GIVE US A TIME. I AM GOING TO STRUGGLE TO GIVE YOU AN EXACT TIME. THAT'S A CONVERSATION WITH MY COLLEAGUES. BUT I CAN TELL YOU IT'S HAPPENING. GAMES THAT ARE CREATED IN NEW ZEALAND ACTUALLY GENERATE IP THAT IS BENEFITING NEW ZEALAND. YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO GET 40 CENTS BACK ON EVERY DOLLAR YOU SPEND, YOU'D BE SILLY TO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. IT'S EVERYTHING WE WANT TO DIVERSIFY THE NEW ZEALAND ECONOMY AND TRULY EMBRACE THE KNOWLEDGE ECONOMY. WE'VE GOT A SMALL WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY HERE, WHEN WE CAN CREATE A TREMENDOUS ECONOMIC BASE THAT WILL LAST FOR GENERATIONS. THEY NEED TO ACT NOW AND THEY NEED TO ACT QUICKLY. WITH ME NOW IS CHAIRPERSON OF THE NEW ZEALAND GAME DEVELOPERS ASSOCIATION, CHELSEA RAPP. WELCOME. THERE WERE A FEW WINNERS IN THE BUDGET, SO WHY WAS YOUR SECTOR CHOSEN? THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR FOR A REALLY LONG TIME. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY COMMON ALL OVER THE WORLD. THERE ARE MORE THAN 20 COUNTRIES THAT HAVE INCENTIVE PROGRAMS LIKE THIS. AND ONCE AUSTRALIA INTRODUCED THEIRS, IT BECAME A CRITICAL TIME FOR GAME DEVELOPERS, BECAUSE WE WERE SEEING SUCH A BLEEDING OF TALENT AND SKILLS AND INVESTMENT OUT OF THE COUNTRY. SO IT REALLY BECAME A NOW OR NEVER TIME FOR THE INDUSTRY. LET'S JUST SET THE SCENE. HOW BIG IS THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW ZEALAND? IT IS INCREDIBLE. OUR INDUSTRY HAS GROWN ALMOST 30% EVERY YEAR. WE WERE WORTH MORE THAN WOOL, NEW ZEALAND WOOL, LAST YEAR. IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT HAVE SIMILAR PROGRAMMES, FOR INSTANCE IF YOU LOOK AT FINLAND, WHICH IS ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS NEW ZEALAND, THEIR INDUSTRY IS WORTH ABOUT $6 BILLION EVERY YEAR. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD EASILY ACHIEVE. SO GLOBALLY, THE INDUSTRY IS WORTH ABOUT USD $180b, AND IS BIGGER THAN MUSIC AND MOVIES PUT TOGETHER. DO YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE REALISE THAT OPPORTUNITY IS OUT THERE? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK ABOUT GAMES, THEY THINK ABOUT THE GUY PLAYING CALL OF DUTY IN HIS MUM'S BASEMENT AS BEING THE ONLY PLACE THAT GAMES ARE REALLY RELEVANT. IN REALITY, GAMES ARE MUCH MORE UBIQUITOUS THAN THAT. EVERYBODY IS PLAYING GAMES, FROM WORDLE TO CALL OF DUTY. THEY'RE USED FOR EDUCATION AND MEDICAL REHAB, JOB TRAINING SIMULATIONS, IT'S A MUCH BIGGER INDUSTRY THAN PEOPLE REALISE. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE GAMING INDUSTRY IS BESET BY STEREOTYPES, YOU TALK ABOUT THE GUY IN THE BASEMENT, IN MUM'S PLACE, AND THAT GAMES ARE JUST FOR PLAYING? IS THAT HOLDING THE INDUSTRY BACK, THAT PERCEPTION? DEFINITELY. A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T REALISING THAT IT'S MORE THAN JUST ABOUT ENTERTAINMENT. PEOPLE USE GAMES TO CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE WERE SEPARATED BECAUSE OF COVID, AND THERE WERE BIG LOCKDOWNS. PEOPLE USED GAMES TO CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER. AND IN TRUTH, MORE THAN 50% OF PEOPLE WHO PLAY GAMES ARE ACTUALLY WOMEN, AND THE FASTEST-GROWING DEMOGRAPHIC IN GAMES IS WOMEN OVER 35. WOW, OK. HOW BIG IS IT IN NEW ZEALAND, THOUGH, HOW MUCH DO YOU BRING TO THE ECONOMY, HOW MANY STUDIOS ARE THERE? THERE ARE ABOUT 75 STUDIOS IN NEW ZEALAND THAT EMPLOY ABOUT 1200 PEOPLE, AND LAST YEAR WE GENERATED A LITTLE OVER $400 MILLION. AND IN CONTEXT, YOU SAY IT'S BIGGER THAN WOOL, IN CONTEXT OF THE INDUSTRY, HOW BIG IS THAT IN OTHER AREAS, VERSUS OTHER COMMODITIES? IT DEPENDS. IN THE TECH SECTOR WE ARE RELATIVELY SMALL, BUT WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL, GIVEN OUR GROWTH, TO BE A BILLION-DOLLAR INDUSTRY BY 2026. ARE YOU GOING TO DELIVER ON THAT? WE CERTAINLY HOPE SO. THIS INCENTIVE WILL GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING THAT POSSIBLE. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT INCENTIVE. THE BUDGET ANNOUNCEMENT MEANS THAT FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT YOU CAN GET 20 CENTS BACK ON DEVELOPMENT. AS YOU MENTIONED, AUSTRALIA HAS A BIGGER OFFERING OF BETWEEN 30 TO 45 CENTS IN THE DOLLAR. HOW WILL THIS 20 CENTS COMPETE WITH THE AUSSIES? IT CAN'T REALLY COMPETE, APPLES TO APPLES. AUSTRALIA CREATED AN INCENTIVES PROGRAMME THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST ATTRACTIVE WORLDWIDE, AND THEY KNEW THAT. THAT WAS PART OF A SWEEPING TECH PACKAGE. THAT WAS DEVELOPED TO BRING LARGE U.S. SUBSIDIARIES TO AUSTRALIA. OUR INCENTIVE HAS NEVER HAD THAT AS A GOAL. OURS HAS ALWAYS BEEN HOW CAN WE ENABLE KIWIS TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THE GLOBAL MARKET. THIS ISN'T GOING TO STEM THE FLOW OF GAME DEVELOPERS TO AUSTRALIA, IF THEY GET A BETTER DEAL OVER HERE, IS IT? IT'S TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE. I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDIOS THAT HAVE ALREADY OPENED SHOP IN AUSTRALIA. IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF WE CAN ENTICE THEM BACK. BUT WE DO HOPE THIS WILL DETER OTHER STUDIOS FROM CONSIDERING LEAVING, AND HELP TO BRING BACK A LOT OF THE REALLY CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE INVESTMENT AND TALENT BUILDING THAT WAS AT RISK OF LEAVING IF WE DIDN'T DO AN INCENTIVE. OK. WE ASKED GRANT ROBERTSON THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THIS WILL BE ENOUGH TO STOP STUDIOS LEAVING AND BUILD THE INDUSTRY HERE, AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID. THIS IS A START, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE DO WHAT WE CAN TO HELP PROTECT WHAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT SECTOR. I MEAN, $400m FOR GDP. THE AUSTRALIANS ARE COMPETING HEAVILY HERE FOR OUR TALENT. OUR REBATE SCHEME'S A LITTLE MORE OPEN THAN THE AUSTRALIAN ONE. IT CAN BE USED FOR SALARIES, IT CAN BE USED IN A WAY THAT'S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. BUT WE RECOGNISE THAT IF WE WANT TO COMPETE IN THIS SECTOR WE'VE GOT TO BE A PLAYER. WE'RE GETTING REALLY POSITIVE REACTION TO THIS, BUT I'M SURE OVER TIME YOU'LL SEE THIS REBATE EVOLVE A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE WAY THAT FILM SUBSIDIES HAVE. I WANT TO PICK UP HOW HE ENDED THERE, HOW IT WILL EVOLVE LIKE FILM SUBSIDIES HAVE. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE GONNA GET MORE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S REFERRING TO THERE? WE CERTAINLY HOPE SO. THAT WOULD MAKE THE SCHEME MORE COMPETITIVE. WE ARE SEEING COUNTRIES INCREASE THE SIZE OF THEIR SCHEMES BECAUSE THEY'RE RECOGNISING THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY THAT GAMES PROVIDE. THE FILM INDUSTRY, IF IT HAS A PRODUCTION OF MAJOR ECONOMIC IMPACT, IT CAN GET UP TO 25%. WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH? WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE. OK. WOULDN'T WE ALL. IF WE WANT TO GROW THE INDUSTRY HERE, YOU SAID WE'VE GOT 1200 PEOPLE. BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET THE EXTRA GAME DEVELOPERS? THEY ARE IN HOT DEMAND, AREN'T THEY? THEY ARE, GLOBALLY. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY TALENTED PEOPLE MOVE TO AUSTRALIA. BUT NEW ZEALAND HAS ALL OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDED TO BUILD AN INCREDIBLY SUSTAINABLE AND HEALTHY PIPELINE. ALMOST EVERY NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY HAS A GAMES PROGRAM. MASSEY JUST ANNOUNCED A NEW NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCREEN ARTS, THE UNIVERSITY OF CANTERBURY HAS THE DIGITAL SCREEN CAMPUS. SO THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF INVESTMENT IN EDUCATION IN THIS SPACE. WHAT ABOUT DOLLARS, THOUGH? YOU HAVE THE GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCING IN THE BUDGET THEY WILL PUT ANOTHER $30 MILLION INTO A START-UP FUND, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE INVESTMENT ECOSYSTEM, ARE THEY WILLING TO BACK YOU IN THIS? ABSOLUTELY, THEY ARE VERY EAGER. BEFORE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE AUSTRALIAN INCENTIVE, WE WERE FINALLY STARTING TO SEE TRADITIONAL TECH INVESTORS LOOKING IN THIS SPACE AND SAYING, 'HEY, I WANT TO BE HERE. HOW DO I GET IN?' AND I THINK NOW THAT WE HAVE THIS INCENTIVE HERE, WE WILL SEE A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE COMING BACK, WHEREAS BEFORE THEY WERE LOOKING AT AUSTRALIA ONLY. OK. THERE IS ANOTHER DISRUPTION ON THE HORIZON ` GENERATIVE AI. IT'S HERE, IT WRITES CODE, IT WRITES WORDS, IT GENERATES ARTWORK; IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE VIDEOS SOON. SURELY THAT WILL BE A MAJOR IMPACT ON YOUR INDUSTRY? YEAH, I THINK GENERATIVE AI WILL IMPACT ANY INDUSTRY THAT EXISTS ON THE INTERNET. GAMES IS A PART OF THAT, SO WE WILL DEFINITELY BE IMPACTED, BUT I THINK ULTIMATELY, LIKE SO MANY OTHER INNOVATIONS, THIS BECOMES A TOOL THAT WE CAN USE TO HELP US BUILD BETTER PRODUCTS. AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE STRONGLY CONSIDER REGULATION, NOT JUST FOR GAMES, BUT FOR EVERYONE IN TECH. OK, YOU'RE BEHIND REGULATION. CHELSEA RAPP, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON BEING A BUDGET WINNER. ONE OF THE FEW. THANK YOU. A MURI AKE NEI, ONE MP'S CHILDHOOD OF LONGING AND REUNION COMING UP ON BACKSTORY. PLUS, A VETERAN TEACHER ON WHY SHE RESIGNED FROM THE JOB SHE LOVED. HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. I'M JOINED NOW BY OUR PANEL, PROFESSOR MATT ROSKRUGE, WHO IS ASSOCIATE DEAN MAORI AND A PROFESSOR IN THE SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS AT MASSEY UNIVERSITY; JENEE TIBSHRAENY, WHO IS THE HERALD'S WELLINGTON BUSINESS EDITOR; AND FORMER NATIONAL LEADER SIMON BRIDGES, NOW CEO OF THE AUCKLAND BUSINESS CHAMBER. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME. STARTING WITH YOU, SIMON, NOT A LOT IN HERE, I THINK YOU'LL SAY, FOR BUSINESS. NO, THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THIS... IT WASN'T WHAT BUSINESS WAS EXPECTING, WHICH I THINK WAS A RESTRAINT BUDGET. YOU CAN ARGUE WHETHER IT'S GOOD OR BAD, BUT THE REALITY IS IT WASN'T THAT. IT WAS VERY MUCH A LABOUR PARTY POLITICAL BUDGET IN AN ELECTION YEAR. I'M NOT NECESSARILY KNOCKING THAT, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE GOT. THERE WAS A LOT ON INFRASTRUCTURE. MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID GOOD NEWS. EXACTLY. THE EXPANSION OF THE CAPITAL ALLOWANCE WAS WHAT REALLY SURPRISED ME AND SURPRISED A LOT OF ECONOMISTS. GRANT ROBERTSON IS ALLOCATING A LOT MORE MONEY TOWARDS INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING, TRANSPORT, MUCH MORE THAN HE SIGNALLED BACK IN DECEMBER. THAT MEANS WE NEED TO ISSUE A LOT MORE DEBT THAN EXPECTED. THE THING WITH THIS IS WE ALL AGREE WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT WHO'S GOING TO BUILD IT? HOW ARE WE GONNA GET THE MONEY OUT THE DOOR? THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS ON MY MIND. ALSO QUESTIONS AROUND THE 500 NURSES, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE, TOO. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE THE MONEY FOR NURSES, BUT WHERE ARE THEY GONNA COME FROM? MATT, IN TERMS OF MAORI, HOW DID THIS BUDGET SERVE THEM? A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS WHEN I LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS, BUT ACTUALLY, IT'S OK. TE MATATINI IS A HUGE WIN. THEY'LL BE REALLY HAPPY WITH THAT $34M EXTRA. A NICE LITTLE CHUNK IN THERE FOR WHANAU ORA FOR 650 BABIES THROUGH THEIR FIRST THOUSAND DAYS. I THINK THEY WILL BE OKAY. IT HOLDS THE LINE THERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THIS, BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO ATTACK EXTENDING ECE FOR 2-YEAR-OLDS? I THINK WATCHING GRANT ROBERTSON WAS VERY INSTRUCTIVE. HE IS A SUPREME DIPLOMAT. THAT'S WHERE HE'S COME FROM. HE'S VERY GOOD AT THAT. WHAT IS ALSO TRUE IS HE IS SUBTLY, FUNDAMENTALLY SAYING, 'WHEN I SPEND IT, IT'S NOT INFLATIONARY, IT'S DOESN'T HAVE AN EFFECT ON INTEREST RATES, 'BUT, LOOK, WHEN THOSE DIRTY, ROTTEN OPPOSITION PEOPLE SPEND IT IN TAX CUTS IT IS.' THE TRUTH IS THEY BOTH ARE. CENTRE-RIGHT LIKES TAX RELIEF; THE CENTRE-LEFT LIKES FISCAL SPENDING. PICK YOUR POISON, BUT I THINK THIS WAS A BIG BUDGET. A LOT OF HOUSEHOLDS WILL BE SAYING, 'WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR US IN TERMS OF INFLATION AND INTEREST RATES?' I THINK WE WILL GET A PEEK INTO THAT FROM THE RESERVE BANK GOVERNOR. THE TENSION BETWEEN THE RESERVE BANK GOVERNOR AND THE FINANCE MINISTER IS ALSO ON DISPLAY THIS WEEK. HE WAS SAYING HE DOESN'T THINK` THAT GRANT ROBERTSON WAS SAYING, 'I DON'T THINK TWO MORE HIKES IS NECESSARY', BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK ADRIAN ORR IS GONNA SAY? I LOOK FORWARD TO THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON WEDNESDAY. HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE SOME COLOURFUL COMMENTARY. THE BANK ECONOMISTS ARE PREDICTING THAT THE OCR WILL NEED TO RISE MORE OR REMAIN HIGHER FOR LONGER THAN WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN THE CASE. IMPORTANTLY, THE OTHER THING TO LOOK AT HERE IS IMMIGRATION. A LOT OF THEIR FORECASTS ARE ON THE BACK OF IMMIGRATION BEING STRONGER THAN EXPECTED, IN ADDITION TO THIS BUDGET BEING MORE EXPANSIONARY THAN EXPECTED. I THINK IMMIGRATION IS WHERE THE BIGGEST QUESTION MARK HANGS OVER IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, BECAUSE IT AFFECTS DEMAND, LABOUR, SO MANY DIFFERENT COMPONENTS, AND THERE'S LOTS OF UNCERTAINTY AROUND THAT. WE GOT THOSE REALLY BIG NUMBERS OF PEOPLE COMING IN. THE 150,000 PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BECOME UNEMPLOYED IN THE NEXT YEAR ACCORDING TO THE TREASURY FIGURES, THAT IS GOING TO BE AN EXTRAORDINARILY TOUGH TIME FOR THEM, AND THEY ARE WORKING PEOPLE. IT IS DEVASTATING TO FAMILIES. QUITE POSSIBLY, WE'LL COME STRAIGHT OUT OF A COST OF LIVING CRISIS INTO AN EMPLOYMENT CRISIS. 5.3 IS NOT A HUGE EMPLOYMENT RATE. IT WILL DEPEND ON WHAT HAPPENS OVERSEAS. FOR MAORI QUITE OFTEN, THAT UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SITS AT ABOUT TWICE WHAT THE HEADLINE FIGURE IS. WE COULD BE LOOKING AT 10% UNEMPLOYMENT AMONG MAORI, IF WE GET UP TO 5% OVERALL. WHICH WOULD BE A REAL CONCERN. ON THAT IN TERMS OF UNEMPLOYMENT, IF THE RESERVE BANK HAS TO KEEP INTEREST RATES HIGHER FOR LONGER, THAT CAUSES LESS ECONOMIC EXPANSION, MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, BUT ALL THIS MONEY IN THE PIPELINE FOR CAPITAL EXPENDITURE, ROADS, THAT CREATES JOBS, SO IN MANY WAYS, THAT IS COUNTERCYCLIC. ECONOMIC DOWNTURN EXPECTED, MORE EXPENDITURE PROPS THINGS UP A BIT. WHAT DO YOU THINK, SIMON? ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE ` I HEAR WHAT JENEE IS SAYING AND ON A LEVEL, I THINK SHE IS RIGHT, BUT WHAT WE HAVE TO DIG INTO ` SMARTER PEOPLE THAN ME ` WE HAVE THE REBUILD MONEY. THAT'S GREAT. THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS. HOW MUCH IS THERE FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT? IS THERE MONEY THERE TO FUND AN AUCKLAND LIGHT RAIL OR WAITEMATA HARBOUR CROSSING? PERSONALLY, I HAVE MY DOUBT ON THE NUMBERS ` I'M A FORMER TRANSPORT MINISTER ` THAT THAT NECESSARILY IS SO. YES, REBUILD, RESILIENCE, CLIMATE CHANGE BUT ACTUAL, GENUINE PRODUCTIVITY ENHANCING IMPROVEMENT, I'M NOT SO SURE. I WANT TO ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION ON SOMETHING SPECIFIC, BECAUSE YOU ARE A FORMER MP AND NATIONAL LEADER. WE ARE SEEING $14M GOING TOWARDS SECURITY FOR MPs. WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT CLIMATE NOW, FIVE MONTHS FROM THE ELECTION. BROADLY SPEAKING, I WILL BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT. WHAT'S AMAZING ABOUT NEW ZEALAND IN COMPARISON WITH REALLY ANYWHERE, IT'S A VERY OPEN DEMOCRACY. YOU CAN GET TO MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT. THAT'S A GOOD THING. I WAS QUITE OPPOSED TO SOME OF WHAT TREVOR MALLARD AS SPEAKER WAS TRYING TO DO, WHICH WAS REALLY CREATING FORTRESSES AROUND MPs' OFFICES. WHAT'S ALSO TRUE, AND SOME OF MY FORMER COLLEAGUES MAY NOT LIKE THIS, BUT YOUR AVERAGE MP IS NOT KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC, NOT EVEN TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS SOMETIMES. WHAT IS ALSO TRUE, FOR HIGH-PROFILE MPs IT HAS BECOME MORE DANGEROUS. I CERTAINLY FELT THAT AS LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION. YOU DON'T ALWAYS FEEL YOU GET THE SUPPORT YOU REQUIRE FROM THE POLICE AND THE LIKES. BROADLY SPEAKING, I THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. FINE LINE ` WE DON'T WANT TO BE A FORTRESS, BUT WE NEED TO PROTECT MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT. FINAL THOUGHTS ON THE BUDGET, JENEE ` ANYTHING MISSING TO YOU? YOU LISTEN TO DIFFERENT INTEREST GROUPS AND THEY MAKE STRONG CASES. PEOPLE ON THE BREADLINE REALLY STRUGGLING WITH THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS WILL SAY, 'WHY DID WE NOT GET MORE MONEY? WHY ARE SOME OF THESE SCHEMES TARGETED AT MIDDLE NZ?' I THINK IT WAS A POLITICAL BUDGET TARGETING WOMEN, YOUNG FAMILIES, PEOPLE DOING IT TOUGH WITH MORTGAGE RATES, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WORSE OFF WHO WILL FEEL LIKE THEY MISSED OUT. THAT GROUP WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TALK TO IN TERMS OF THEIR POLICY CLOSER TO THE ELECTION. THERE'S LOTS OF QUALITY OF LIFE IMPROVEMENTS THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. KIWISAVER ON PARENTAL LEAVE ` GREAT THING TO DO, SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO. THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO APPEAL TO THAT MIDDLE VOTE. I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK BACK TO EARLIER IN THE WEEK, WE HAD OUR NEWSHUB REID RESEARCH POLL THAT SHOWED NATIONAL AND LABOUR LOCKED IN A VERY TIGHT RACE ON THE SIDE OF THE PARTY VOTE. BOTH IN THE MID-30s. CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S PERSONAL POLLING IS DOWN TO 16.4%. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WILL BE REVERBERATING AROUND CAUCUS FIVE MONTHS OUT FROM AN ELECTION? CAREFUL NOT TO GET TOO INVOLVED IN THE POLITICS OF THESE THINGS. THEY HAVE A LEADER IN CHRIS LUXON AND THEY WILL STAY THAT COURSE. THE OPPOSITION NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THEY FIND WAYS TO DIFFERENTIATE THEMSELVES FROM THE GOVERNMENT. I THINK THAT IS POSSIBLY THE ISSUE. SHOWING NEW ZEALANDERS WITH AN UNKNOWN QUANTITY HOW A NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM THIS LABOUR ONE. THERE WAS A PRE-BUDGET SPEECH BY CHRISTOPHER LUXON I THINK AT YOUR EVENT, SIMON. IT WAS, INDEED. LUXON HAD THE SPOTLIGHT LEADING UP TO THE BUDGET, AND HE USED IT TO SAY HE WANTED RECEIPTS FOR TAX PAYERS. DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY? DO YOU THINK IT WILL RESONATE WITH THE PUBLIC? I DON'T THINK IT WILL RESONATE THAT MUCH. THE TAX POLICY THAT NATIONAL IS BRINGING DEFINITELY WILL. ULTIMATELY, PEOPLE ARE DOING IT TOUGH, AND IF YOU SAY TO THEM THEY'LL HAVE SOME EXTRA MONEY IN THEIR BANK EVERY YEAR, THAT WILL RESONATE. THIS IS NOT THE TIME WHERE PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN CRAZY, INNOVATIVE SCHEMES. THEY WANT THINGS TO CALM DOWN AND BE BETTER. IN THAT SENSE, NATIONAL'S TAX POLICY WILL RESONATE WITH PEOPLE. AND THE BUDGET HAS AN EYE OF THE BEHOLDER SORT OF FEEL TO IT. IF YOU'RE ON THE LEFT, YOU CAN SAY, 'WE'VE PUT THIS SPENDING IN HERE AND IT'S HELPING THESE HOUSEHOLDS,' IF YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT, YOU CAN CLAIM WASTE AND INFLATION PRESSURE. THERE ARE THINGS FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM. CLEVER POLITICALLY. I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO THE POSSIBLE HOLE IN THE BUDGET WITH THE NICOTINE EXCISE TAX. WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? IT'S AN INTERESTING ONE. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THERE IS A PRICE FLOOR IN TOBACCO SET BY THE GOVERNMENT. IT'S NOT AFFECTED BY INFLATION. IT WAS NEW TO ME HEARING IT FROM GRANT ROBERTSON, AND GOOD ON YOU GUYS FOR PICKING UP ON IT, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO FINDING OUT A BIT MORE. WHAT DID YOU THINK ON THE POLICY? APPARENTLY, WE'RE GONNA SEE A REDUCTION IN CIGARETTE SALES BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT POLICY IN 2025, BUT IT WON'T SHOW UP IN THE BOOKS. MAYBE IT'S A HARD THING TO QUANTIFY. GOOD ON YOU FOR PICKING IT UP. FORECASTING IS NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT AND WHEN IT INVOLVES HUMAN BEHAVIOUR AND SOMETHING LIKE SMOKING, IT'S PROBABLY QUITE DIFFICULT AS WELL. YOU WERE NODDING IN AGREEMENT, SIMON. WHAT WE CAN SAY IS THIS ELECTION WILL BE AS THIN AS CIGARETTE PAPER. (LAUGHS) WONDERFUL. THANK YOU FOR COMING IN TO JOIN US ON THE PANEL AND FOR YOUR ANALYSIS IN THE WAKE OF THE BUDGET. E WHAI AKE NEI, COMING UP ` HIGHLIGHTS FROM A HARD, FAST AND FURIOUS BUDGET WEEK IN PARLIAMENT. PLUS, GETTING TO KNOW OUR MPs ` A LOSS, A REUNION, AND, OF COURSE, SOME POLITICS ON BACKSTORY. A LOSS, A REUNION, AND, OF COURSE, SOME POLITICS ON BACKSTORY. WELCOME BACK TO BACKSTORY. TONGAN-BORN LABOUR MP ANAHILA KANONGATA'A'S PATH TO PARLIAMENT WAS SHAPED BY FAMILY, FAITH, CULTURE, AND A SHARE OF HEARTBREAK. NEWSHUB NATION VISITED HER AT HOME AND AT CHURCH IN ONEHUNGA TO HEAR HER BACKSTORY. WE ARE AN ESTABLISHED FAMILY IN TONGA. MY GRANDFATHER WAS THE TOWN OFFICER IN TONGA. HE'S TONGAN-FIJIAN. MY FATHER ` HE IS TONGAN-SWEDISH-NORWEGIAN. HE TRAINED VOLUNTEER WORKERS FROM THE PEACE CORP IN TONGA. MY MOTHER ` SHE WAS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. SHE OWNED A SHOP, AND SHE WAS ALSO A PRIMARY SCHOOL TEACHER. I GREW UP AS A CHILD RIDING HORSES, SWINGING ON THE VINES ON THE MANGROVES, PLAYING WITH MY COUSINS. MY JOB AFTER SCHOOL WAS TO COLLECT 20 COCONUTS AND WASH THE OUTDOOR POTS, AND THEN WE COULD GO AND PLAY. YEAH, I THINK THOSE WERE THE GOOD MEMORIES. MY MOTHER WAS HERE IN NEW ZEALAND, AND IN TERMS OF THE POLITICS OF MIGRATION, SHE WAS AN OVERSTAYER. MUM WAS AN OVERSTAYER HERE, AND SHE COULDN'T RETURN TO TONGA FOR HOLIDAYS OR ANYTHING. MY GRANDFATHER WOULD BRING ME UP, TEACHING ME WHATEVER HE WAS DOING. HE WOULD TELL ME WHAT THE REASONS FOR AND WHAT MY ROLE IS, AND THAT I'M ALWAYS TAUGHT THAT MY ROLE IS TO LOOK AFTER THE FAMILY. SO, I DIDN'T KNOW MY MOTHER. I DIDN'T KNOW MY MOTHER UNTIL SHE HAD GAINED PERMANENT RESIDENCE AND CAME TO TONGA. SO, I SAW MY MOTHER WHEN I WAS 9. THAT'S MY FIRST MEMORY OF HER. I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT BY MY FATHER THAT MY MOTHER IS IN NEW ZEALAND, AND SHE'S THERE WORKING FOR US, AND THAT MY JOB WAS TO DO WELL AT SCHOOL, AND THAT SHE WOULD ONE DAY COME AND GET ME. SOME OF THE VILLAGE KIDS WOULD ALWAYS JOKE, YOU KNOW? I'VE ALWAYS BEEN, LIKE, WAITING FOR THIS... GOING TO NEW ZEALAND. 'YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GO TO NEW ZEALAND.' (LAUGHS) 'YOUR MOTHER'S NEVER GONNA COME FOR YOU.' YEAH, FOR MY BROTHER AND I, SO, YEAH, UNTIL IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. SO, I WAS ON HORSEBACK WITH MY COUSIN. WE LOVE HORSES. WE HAD GONE TO RUN AROUND ON THE BEACH WITH A HORSE. I WAS A BIT OF A TOMBOY, SO I DIDN'T WEAR A TOP. SO, WE'RE JUST GOING, WE GET OFF, AND THERE WAS THIS WOMAN SITTING THERE, AND SHE WAS CRYING WHEN SHE SAW ME, AND I WAS WONDERING, 'WHO'S THE WOMAN CRYING?' (CHUCKLES) YEAH, AND THEN THEY TOLD ME THAT SHE'S MY MUM. BOTH MY PARENTS PASSED AWAY IN COVID. SO, THE FIRST LOCKDOWN OF COVID-19, TWO WEEKS INTO THAT, MY MUM PASSED AWAY, SO WE HAD TO DEAL WITH HAVING 10 PEOPLE AT THE FUNERAL, NO CONTACT... IT WAS HARROWING FOR OUR FAMILY, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE SO CLOSE, AND WE DO EVERYTHING TOGETHER. AND THE SECOND LOCKDOWN, MY FATHER PASSED AWAY IN HOUSTON, IN TEXAS. I THINK THE HARDEST DAY WAS... HARDEST DAY WAS HER FUNERAL. YEAH, UM... THE HARDEST DAY WAS HER FUNERAL. JUST NOT HAVING HER FAMILY THERE TO PROVIDE THEIR ROLE AS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, SO WE HAD TO DECIDE WITHIN OUR BUBBLE THAT IT WAS ONLY THE PEOPLE IN OUR BUBBLE THAT COULD GO. YEAH, IT WAS REALLY HARD NOT HAVING OUR FAMILY THERE TO BURY THEIR AUNT OR THEIR SISTER. YEAH. SO, I LEFT SCHOOL AT FORM SIX TO GET A JOB AS A TELLER AT ASB BANK. MY FAMILY WERE REALLY DISAPPOINTED. THEY WANTED ME TO GO TO UNIVERSITY, BUT I DIDN'T EVER LISTEN TO MOST THINGS. I HAD A BIGGER PURPOSE. I'VE LIVED MY WORK LIFE IN CHILD, YOUTH AND FAMILY, DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL WELFARE, ORANGA TAMARIKI, IN ALL ITS DIFFERENT FORMS. I'VE WORKED MY WAY UP FROM THE MAILROOM THROUGH TO A SOCIAL WORKER, SUPERVISING SOCIAL WORKERS, MANAGING SOCIAL WORKERS, AND GIVING IT RICE IN WELLINGTON. THAT WAS MY INTRODUCTION TO TANGATA WHENUA HERE IN, UM... SO, I'M EMOTIONAL BECAUSE... (SIGHS) I REMEMBER THE KUIA AND KAUMATUA AT CHILD, YOUTH AND FAMILY THAT I WARMED TO, THAT HAD TAUGHT ME ABOUT THE CULTURE, AND BECAUSE THEY, IN A WAY... I COULD SEE MY GRANDFATHER IN THEM, AND THAT'S WHY I WEAR THIS. IT WAS GIFTED TO ME WHEN I LEFT. AND... YEAH, WAS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT... THOSE PEOPLE THAT CARE FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE, THAT THEY KNEW WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE WAS TO PROVIDE SUPPORT IN A WAY THAT IS MEANINGFUL TO TANGATA WHENUA, MEANINGFUL TO MIGRANTS AND THAT WE HAD A ROLE IN IT. YEAH. WE ARE AT FAKAFEANGAI MA'ONI'ONI, THE ONEHUNGA TONGAN METHODIST CHURCH. AS TONGANS, WE'RE TAUGHT FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE, "KOE 'OTUA MO TONGA KO HOKU TOFI'A" ` GOD AND TONGA ARE MY INHERITANCE. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT INSPIRES US, AND SPIRITUALITY AND OUR SPIRITUAL WELL-BEING IS IMPORTANT TO US AS TONGANS, AND THIS IS WHERE WE COME. AS TEENAGERS, WE TRIED ALCOHOL. YEAH. AND ONE OF THOSE TIMES WAS ACTUALLY AT THE BACK OF THE CHURCH HERE, AND WE CAME HERE, AND WE USED THE MICROPHONES. (LAUGHS) HAD A LITTLE... YOU KNOW, PRACTISING OUR SERMONS AND SAYING OUR BIBLE VERSES. (LAUGHS) NOT THE BEST RENDITION, BUT WE SURELY GOT TOLD OFF FOR THAT. YEAH. YOU KNOW, 'GOD AND TONGA IS MY INHERITANCE' IS PART OF ME FROM THE MINUTE I WAKE UP TO WHEN I SLEEP. I SAY A PRAYER TO THANK FOR THE BLESSINGS IN MY LIFE, AND I ALSO SAY A PRAYER TO ASK FOR THINGS IN MY LIFE OR ASK FOR OTHERS, SO SPIRITUALITY IS REALLY IMPORTANT. YEAH, IT IS PART OF ME. SO, I JOINED THE LABOUR PARTY AT THE END OF 2008. SO, IN 2011, WHEN PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LIST AND WHAT OUR PURPOSE WAS, AND I THOUGHT, 'ACTUALLY, I CAN ADD VALUE, 'I CAN ADD VALUE IF I GO INTO PARLIAMENT.' I HOPE I BRING THE IMPORTANCE OF CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY IN OUR LIVES. MO E 'AMANAKI KE TAU IKUNA. I HOPE I BRING THAT AND THAT IT'S NOT A THREAT. BUT THE CULTURE, ALL THE CULTURES IN NEW ZEALAND ADD VALUE. THEY ADD VALUE TO OUR DAILY LIVES, AND IF A NEW ZEALANDER IS REALLY GROUNDED IN THEIR IDENTITY, THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO MORE, DO MORE FOR THE COUNTRY AND THAT WE CAN WE ALL... WE'LL ALL BE BETTER OFF. YEAH. A VERY MOVING BACK STORY FROM ANAHILA THERE. I CAN'T BELIEVE SHE DIDN'T MEET HER MOTHER UNTIL SHE WAS NINE. IT'S EXTRAORDINARY. IT IS EXTRAORDINARY, AND THE OTHER THING IT REMINDS US OF IS COVID. SHE LOST HER MUM DURING COVID, SHE LOST HER FATHER DURING COVID, AND THE SEPARATION AND EMOTIONAL DISTRESS IT'S STILL CAUSING HER. PAIN LOTS OF FAMILIES WENT THROUGH. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATAU. STAY WITH US. WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATAU. STAY WITH US. WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. JUST AS PRINCIPALS ARE STRUGGLING TO FILL TEACHING POSITIONS, SEASONED TEACHERS ARE LEAVING THE SCHOOLS AND CLASSES THEY LOVE. OUR SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS SPOKE TO ONE OF THOSE TEACHERS. MORE THAN 30 YEARS IN THE CLASSROOM AND THIS VETERAN IS WALKING AWAY. SO I'M PENNY. AND I'M 55 YEARS OLD. GRADUATED WHEN I WAS 22. SO I'VE BEEN IN THE CLASSROOM FOR 33, 34 YEARS. IT WAS JUST ALWAYS WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO. AND AS A CHILD, LIKE, HAVING MY TOYS LINED UP AND PLAYING TEACHER. DO YOU KNOW AROUND ABOUT HOW MANY KIDS YOU'VE TAUGHT? OH, A FEW THOUSAND. A FEW THOUSAND. AND YOU'VE GOT PICTURES OF ALL OF THEM? OH, YES. THE GOOD, THE BAD, THE CRAZY. STARTING WITH THAT CRAZY LITTLE LADY WHEN I WAS FIVE. TELL ME ABOUT THE DAY YOU DECIDED TO QUIT TEACHING. IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL DAY, BUT IT WAS A HORRIBLE DAY. WE'D FINISHED AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. I WAS EXHAUSTED. I HAD CHRISTMAS, AND THEN WE BASICALLY HAD TO DRIVE INTO SCHOOL TO SET UP THE CLASSROOM. MY PARTNER WAS DRIVING AND I JUST SAT IN THE PASSENGER SEAT WITH THE TEARS ROLLING DOWN MY EYES, THINKING, 'I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANY MORE.' AND HOW DID THAT FEEL, LEAVING A PROFESSION THAT WAS SUCH A BIG PART OF YOUR LIFE FOR SO LONG? FAILURE. I'VE LET PEOPLE DOWN. ESPECIALLY THE CHILDREN IN MY CLASS, YOU KNOW. TEARFULLY: FAILURE. DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY? OH, YEAH. I TAUGHT AT THE MOST INCREDIBLE SCHOOL. AMAZING KIDS. JUST THE BEST STAFF. A BRILLIANT PRINCIPAL. BUT I COULDN'T DO IT ANY MORE. JUST EXHAUSTED. PENNY IS NOT ALONE ` IN 2022, 5500 TEACHERS DECIDED NOT TO RENEW THEIR PRACTISING CERTIFICATES. MINISTRY FIGURES SUGGEST THE TOTAL NUMBER OF TEACHERS ISN'T THE ISSUE, BUT THE SECTOR IS SAYING SOMETHING ELSE. PRINCIPALS ARE STRUGGLING TO FILL TEACHING POSITIONS DUE TO WORKLOAD AND BURNOUT. NEWSHUB NATION SPOKE TO MORE THAN A DOZEN TEACHERS AND THEY ALL IDENTIFIED THESE SAME KEY THEMES ` NOT ENOUGH TRAINING AND SUPPORT TO MEET INCREASINGLY COMPLEX STUDENT NEEDS. OUR MOST COMPETENT TEACHERS ARE EXPECTED TO CARRY THE LOAD, OFTEN LEADING TO BURNOUT, AND A SYSTEMIC UNDERVALUING OF THE PROFESSION. FOR PENNY, CRACKS HAVE BEEN FORMING FOR A LONG TIME. IT STARTED WITH TOMORROW'S SCHOOLS, THEN THE EDUCATION REVIEW OFFICE, NATIONAL STANDARDS AND FINALLY COVID, EACH CHIPPING AWAY AT PUBLIC TRUST IN TEACHERS; ALL TAKING THEIR TOLL. I ALWAYS SAY TO PEOPLE, THE IRONY OF TEACHING IS YOU GO INTO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE KIDS, BUT IT'S ALWAYS AT THE DETRIMENT OF YOUR OWN KIDS. AND SO WE REALLY CARE ABOUT KIDS, AND WE WANT THE BEST FOR KIDS. BUT OFTEN OUR KIDS MISS OUT. AND YOU'VE JUST BECOME A GRANDMA. AND I'VE JUST BECOME A GRANDMA. THREE WEEKS AGO TODAY. AND IT'S WONDERFUL. AND THAT, FOR ME, WAS THE FINAL POINT. THAT WAS THE LAST STRAW. AND IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT YOU WOULD WANT THE POLITICIANS, THE PARENTS AND THE PUBLIC TO KNOW ABOUT THE REALITIES OF THE CLASSROOM, WHAT WOULD THAT BE? TEACHERS WORK REALLY HARD, AND WE DO IT FOR OUR NATION'S CHILDREN. AND NO, WE DON'T WORK 9 TILL 3, 40 WEEKS A YEAR. DOES THE MINISTER ACCEPT THAT THE TEACHER SHORTAGE CRISIS IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO TEACHERS' PAY AND CONDITIONS? MR SPEAKER, IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT. THE EDUCATION MINISTER, A FORMER TEACHER, PRINCIPAL AND ONE OF PENNY'S COLLEGE CLASSMATES, SAYS SHE VALUES THE DIFFERENCE TEACHERS MAKE. I KNOW THE WORK THAT OUR TEACHERS DO, AND ABSOLUTELY VALUE IT HIGHLY. BUT LIKE EVERY OTHER SECTOR, COVID HAS HAD AN IMPACT ON OUR EDUCATION SECTOR AS WELL. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH WITH OUR TEACHERS AT THE MOMENT. IN RECENT WEEKS, TEACHERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN SCREAMING OUT FOR HELP. ALL CHANT: FAIR PAY. WHEN DO WE NEED IT? ALL: NOW. MEANWHILE, THOSE WITH THE POWER TO MAKE CHANGE ARE MAKING PROMISES. THERE IS NO SUBJECT ON WHICH I'M MORE PASSIONATE OR THAT MOTIVATES ME MORE THAN EDUCATION. I THINK OUR TRACK RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF THERE. IT TENDS TO BE LABOUR GOVERNMENTS THAT PUT EXTRA TEACHERS IN TO REDUCE CLASS SIZES. BUT THE SECTOR IS ASKING THEM TO PUT POLITICS ASIDE. 2000 EDUCATORS HAVE SIGNED A PETITION CALLING FOR BIPARTISANSHIP. WILL YOU COMMIT TO WORKING WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES IN OPPOSITION? EDUCATION CANNOT BE A POLITICAL FOOTBALL. IN FACT, EDUCATIONALISTS, AND I WAS ONE OF THEM, ARE ABSOLUTELY TIRED OF SEEING THESE CHANGES COMING IN EVERY TIME THAT THERE'S A NEW GOVERNMENT. BUT WE HAVE TO GET AGREEMENT AROUND WHAT'S IMPORTANT IN THE EDUCATION SPACE. IT'S TOO CRITICAL FOR US NOT TO GET THIS. I NOTICED THAT JAN TINETTI HAS OFTEN SAID, 'OH, WE WANT CROSS-PARTY COLLABORATION.' BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT ` ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. AND THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN CONSULTED IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY TO GIVE ACTUAL FEEDBACK TO INFLUENCE ANY OF THE DECISIONS. HOW WOULD A NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN PARTICULARLY PERTURBED ABOUT IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS IS THE AMOUNT OF BACKROOM SPEND. ACTUALLY, WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE CUTS. CUTS IN OUR TEACHER AIDE BUDGETS, CUTS IN OUR ORS FUNDING. AND IF I WERE THE EDUCATION MINISTER, THAT WOULD BE WHERE ALL OF MY SUPPORT WOULD BE GOING. MEANWHILE, PENNY'S STILL GIVING HER SUPPORT TO OUR KIDS. I NOW HAVE TWO PART TIME JOBS WORKING WITH SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN AND TUTORING. AND THAT'S PART TIME, BUT IT'S STILL 40, 45 HOURS A WEEK. BUT 40, 45 HOURS A WEEK IS A LOT BETTER THAN 60, 70 HOURS A WEEK. SO I GET TO HAVE MY EVENINGS AND MY WEEKENDS WITH MY FAMILY. GOOD BOY. PUT IT DOWN. GOOD BOY. I STILL GET UP EARLY. JUST ` I'VE DONE IT FOR 35 YEARS, BUT I ACTUALLY CAN SIT DOWN, HAVE A COFFEE, DRIVE TO WORK, NOT FEELING FRANTIC. THAT'S LOVELY. THAT'S JUST BLISS. SOUNDS LIKE IT. OUR SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS WITH THAT REPORT. WELL, WHETHER YOU THOUGHT IT WAS BARE BONES OR A BLOW-OUT, THE BUDGET WAS ALL ANYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN THE HALLS OF POWER THIS WEEK. HERE IS FINN HOGAN WITH THE WEEK THAT WAS IN WELLINGTON. WELL, OF COURSE, THERE WAS ONLY ONE WORD ON EVERYONE'S LIPS THIS WEEK IN THE HOUSE ` BUDGET. BUDGET. BUDGET. AND WHILE BLUE CHRIS WAS TAKING SHOTS AT RED CHRIS OVER ALL THAT GREEN HE'S SPENDING,... AND THIS BUDGET IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THIS GOVERNMENT GASLIGHTING THE COUNTRY. ...THE PM WAS READY TO CLAP BACK. A 50% INCREASE IN ROAD MAINTENANCE FUNDING, REPAIRING MORE THAN 54,000 POTHOLES. MR SPEAKER, THE LIST COULD GO ON. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) DAVID SEYMOUR, PREDICTABLY, WAS LESS THAN IMPRESSED WITH BUDGET 2023. THIS BUDGET SHOULD BE NAMED THE BLOW-OUT BUDGET, BECAUSE I REALLY, JUST FOR A MOMENT, JUST FOR A MOMENT, I ALMOST BELIEVED GRANT ROBERTSON WHEN HE SAID HE WAS GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE AND GET SPENDING UNDER CONTROL, BUT OH NO ` THIS IS A RECKLESS, IRRESPONSIBLE BLOW-OUT BUDGET. AND IN A RARE MOMENT OF AGREEMENT ACROSS THE AISLE, SO WAS TE PATI MAORI, IF FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. WE HAVE A COST OF LIVING CRISIS. IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO EVEN DISCUSS A COST OF LIVING CRISIS. MR SPEAKER, TANGATA WHENUA HAVE NEVER BEEN AFFORDED THE PRIVILEGE OF EXPERIENCING A COST OF LIVING CRISIS BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL BEARING THE BRUNT OF THE COST OF POVERTY. WELL, THAT'S ROBERTSON'S SIXTH BUDGET DONE AND DUSTED. WILL HE HAVE A CHANCE TO DELIVER ANOTHER THREE AND ADD TO HIS TIE COLLECTION? WE'LL FIND OUT COME OCTOBER 14TH. AND THAT WAS BUDGET WEEK FOR ANOTHER YEAR, KNOWN AROUND HERE AS NERD CHRISTMAS OR NERD NIRVANA. TAKE YOUR PICK. NOW THE SCENE IS SET FOR THE ELECTION, LESS THAN FIVE MONTHS AWAY. IT'S THE LABOUR PARTY CONGRESS NEXT WEEKEND, AND INFORMALLY, PROBABLY THE START OF THEIR ELECTION CAMPAIGN. ABSOLUTELY. WE'LL HAVE ALL THE LATEST FOR YOU NEXT WEEKEND. NGA MIHI NUI. CAPTIONS BY KATE MCCULLOUGH AND SAM BAKER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023