Thursday, 1 June 2023 [Volume 768] The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m. KARAKIA/PRAYERS GREG O'CONNOR (Deputy Speaker): Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility, for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. BUSINESS STATEMENT Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House): Next week, legislation to be considered will include the first readings of the Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill and the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2023 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill; the second reading of the Deposit Takers Bill; and the third readings of the Child Support (Pass On) Acts Amendment Bill and the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day, and on Thursday there will be a debate on local issues. PETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS SPEAKER: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. CLERK: Petition of SAFE requesting that the House ban the use of colony cages for hens petition of Josiah Tualamali'i requesting that the House conduct an inquiry into best practice for justice interventions to support young people. SPEAKER: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled "Four initiatives supporting improved outcomes for Māori". That paper is published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. CLERK: Report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Auditor-General's draft annual plan 2023/24 reports of the Health Committee on the: 2021/22 Annual reviews of the South Canterbury and Waitematā District Health Boards, and Petition of Marion Maw: Ensure access to ERP therapy for people living with OCD report of the Social Services and Community Committee on the 2021/22 Annual review of the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa Board. SPEAKER: The draft annual plan is set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill. CLERK: Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill introduction. SPEAKER: That bill is set down for first reading. ORAL QUESTIONS QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS Question No. 1—Finance 1. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: Has he received any advice from Government officials in the past year that included proposals for reducing the income tax paid by New Zealanders; if so, has Cabinet given consideration to any of those proposals? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): To the first part of the question, as I have previously said, the Government receives a range of tax policy advice during the parliamentary term, and that includes ideas for both reducing and increasing taxes. For the second part of the question, as the member knows, Cabinet discussions are confidential until such time as announcements are made or material is otherwise released. Nicola Willis: Did he consider including income tax relief in Budget 2023, and, if not, why not? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Government gave consideration to a wide range of policies in Budget 2023, but, as the member well knows, the Government's conclusion was that now is not the right time for tax cuts when there is so much pressure on delivering the public services that New Zealanders need. Nicola Willis: Have Government officials in the past year provided advice on possible new taxes, such as, for example, a tax on unrealised capital gains? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in answer to my primary question, officials provide a wide range of advice across the parliamentary term about a wide range of taxation issues. Any announcements about those would be made by the Government, as the member knows. In the Budget, we made an announcement about the trustee tax rate, and we also have made very clear that there will be no other tax changes in this term of Parliament, beyond those that we campaigned on. Nicola Willis: Does he think it would be appropriate for Government officials to be asked to work on tax policy for the Labour Party manifesto? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I do not believe that would be appropriate. Any advice that I have sought or have received in my time as Minister is in my role as Minister. Nicola Willis: Can he confirm no tax proposals were prepared by IRD and taken to Cabinet that will form a part of the Labour Party's election year manifesto? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I repeat the answer that I've just given: any and all advice received by the Government is received by the Government and us as Ministers. Nicola Willis: Well, then can he assure New Zealanders the Government has not weaponised the Public Service to prepare Labour's election year tax policy to avoid paying for their own research and policy advice? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I repeat the answers I've just given to the previous two supplementaries. Nicola Willis: Given he won't give a straight answer, can New Zealanders conclude— Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That statement is completely out of order. Hon Gerry Brownlee: Oh, what? And none of the comments you make are? Dear Lord! SPEAKER: When you're ready, Mr Brownlee, thank you. Starting off a question like that is never helpful. I'm going to rule that question out of order. Nicola Willis: Why won't he just be clear and tell New Zealanders that he is considering adding a new tax but that he doesn't want to tell them until much closer to the election? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We have been very clear that the taxation policy we took to the 2020 election is what the Government is implementing. We were clear in the Budget about what we're doing on taxation. There is no proposal to do anything beyond that by this Government. Question No. 2—Cyclone Recovery 2. ANNA LORCK (Labour—Tukituki) to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: What announcements has the Government made about support for severely affected locations in the wake of the Auckland Anniversary weekend floods and Cyclone Gabrielle? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister for Cyclone Recovery): The Government is continuing to support those communities and regions affected with the recovery and rebuild from the recent extreme weather events. Today, we announced that the Government will enter into a funding arrangement with councils in cyclone and flood affected regions to support them to offer a voluntary buy-out for owners of category 3 designated residential properties. We will also co-fund work needed to protect category 2 designated properties. This will help councils get the right solution in the right place and avoid significant financial hardship for property owners. Anna Lorck: What else did the announcement say about support for severely affected locations following the recent extreme weather events? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What we announced today is that we will work through the details with councils on how the funding of buy-outs for category 3 properties, and support for areas where category 2 properties are, over the coming weeks. We expect to have those details resolved later this month. For properties designated category 2, where community and or property-level interventions are possible to manage future severe weather event risk, the Government will work with councils to help them build flood protection and other resilience measures. The initial support for this is already in place, with $100 million initial funding announced in Budget 2023. People in homes designated as category 3 properties, where future severe weather event risk cannot be mitigated, will be offered a voluntary buy-out by councils, the cost of which will be shared between the Government and councils. Decisions on the details of how the voluntary buy-out process will work will be made in the coming weeks. Issues to consider include the criteria for valuation of category 3 properties, the split of cost between councils and central government, and the treatment of uninsured properties. Anna Lorck: What other work is the Government doing to support those affected by the recent weather events? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Today's announcement was about residential properties. We are, of course, continuing to work with sectors, such as the horticulture sector, on possible support for commercial operators, and also on regional plans that will provide overall support for recovery and rebuild. A parallel process is also underway to engage with Māori, including on appropriate processes for whenua Māori. Engagement with those communities will be led by Te Arawhiti, the Cyclone Response Unit, and local councils. This process will ensure that there are equitable outcomes for those communities. Chris Penk: Thank you, Mr Speaker. With key details not advised today, such as residential housing outside the Hawke's Bay, how to treat uninsured properties, and the split of costs between councils and central government, aren't these statements in the nature of an announcement about announcements? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not. And to pick up one of the member's points, the announcements today apply to every region affected. That announcement is that there will be a voluntary buy-out programme led by local councils and financially supported by the Government. Question No. 3—Housing 3. CHRIS BISHOP (National) to the Minister of Housing: Is she satisfied with the performance of Kāinga Ora? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): Yes, I am particularly satisfied with how Kāinga Ora has turned around what was, essentially, a sales unit six years ago into an agency that not only builds thousands of public houses but also has a national urban development function, to ensure that housing is enabled across the housing continuum. Kāinga Ora has built or enabled a gross number of 14,000 houses since October 2017, across public and transitional housing, KiwiBuild, and large-scale projects. Based on current staffing levels, this is one staff member per two houses built or under construction, compared to two staff members per home under construction under the previous Government. Chris Bishop: With reference to that answer to the primary, and particularly the reference to KiwiBuild, is she saying that the Government's success in building 2,000 KiwiBuild homes in the last six years is actually a success? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: What I pointed out to that member is that Kāinga Ora is an agency that has turned around, from being a sales unit for flogging off State housing to building a Government housing programme that not only contains the record number of State houses built since the 1970s but that also contains market houses and KiwiBuild houses. This is a Government that builds houses, and we are proud of that. Chris Bishop: Why does Budget 2023 allocate $3 billion to Kāinga Ora and forecast that to build 3,000 houses, at an average cost of $1 million a house? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The member is simply incorrect in his calculations. What Budget 2023 does is allow a borrowing facility of up to that amount. Of course, if Kāinga Ora were to build 3,000 houses—which it won't, because the community housing providers will be building some of those—that would be a net number. In order for Kāinga Ora to deliver, say, net 2,000 houses, it actually has to build around 1,000 houses. I compared, before I came down, the construction cost of our community housing providers compared to Kāinga Ora, and, actually, Kāinga Ora has, in the last financial year, delivered two bedroom units at a lower cost than all of our providers. Chris Bishop: Why does she have any confidence Kāinga Ora will deliver these extra houses on budget when Budget 2023 allocates an extra $7 billion to the agency, which is more than is being allocated for the national resilience plan? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I have confidence because the operational funding that was allocated in the Budget is for just that: operations. It is the money that is required for the operating supplement and the income-related rent subsidy—something that member is going to have to get his head around, in terms of what a real commitment to public housing looks like. Chris Bishop: What's more of a failure: spending $2 billion on KiwiBuild for 2,000 houses or spending $3 billion on Kāinga Ora to deliver just 3,000? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The member is incorrect in both instances. KiwiBuild has not had to exercise the discounted underwrite on any of the properties. There are 1,700 New Zealanders that are in affordable first-homes over six years under our Government, compared to less than 100 under National over nine years. So I will put that record next to theirs any day of the week. And, as I pointed out in previous answers, the member has simply got his mathematics wrong. Chris Bishop: Is she comfortable with the billions of dollars that Kāinga Ora has borrowed in the last six years, relative to a State house waiting list that has quintupled under her watch? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I am more than comfortable, because it's to fix the decimation of a housing programme that happened under nine years of National. Not only did they end up with 1,500 fewer public houses held by either Housing New Zealand or community housing providers than when they started, they failed to deliver. If they had delivered at the rate that we are, we would have 20,000 more State houses in this country. But not only did they sell them off and fail to deliver; they also raided the coffers of Housing New Zealand and took out over half a billion dollars rather than building houses with it. Question No. 4—Police 4. VANUSHI WALTERS (Labour—Upper Harbour) to the Minister of Police: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. What progress has been made on the Government's target of 1,800 additional police officers? Hon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police): In 2017, the newly elected Labour Government committed to a target of 1,800 additional police on the front line. New Zealanders told us that they wanted more police in our communities, and we committed to delivering that. So it was with great pride today that I attended the graduation, along with the Prime Minister, of Wing 366, this morning, which now sees Police with 10,700 officers—an increase of 21 percent since 2017. With the recent commitment to maintaining an ongoing ratio of one police officer to every 480 New Zealanders, the public can be assured that under a Labour Government, there won't be a cut to the number of officers keeping our communities safe. Vanushi Walters: Minister, where are these additional police being deployed? Hon GINNY ANDERSEN: Let me be clear: every single one of our 12 police districts in New Zealand is better resourced and better staffed today than when we came into office in 2017. The most significant increases in police numbers have been in: Eastern District, with 24 percent; Northland, 23 percent increase; Bay of Plenty with a 20 percent increase; and with other districts right around the country receiving, at a minimum, an 11 percent increase in front-line staff. We've also significantly bolstered the number of cops working to fight organised crime and gangs, which includes both centralised and specialist ability that can be readily deployed to other districts. Vanushi Walters: And how has the diversity of the constabulary changed? Hon GINNY ANDERSEN: More good news: we knew it wasn't just enough to increase the number of police; we needed to work hard to ensure our police service reflected those communities they serve. That's why I'm incredibly proud that we've had a thousand additional policewomen join, which represents an increase of 61 percent since 2017. We've seen more Māori officers increase by 40 percent since 2017, Pasifika officers increase by 83 percent, and Asian officers increase by 157 percent since 2017. I want to thank every single member of our police service for their commitment to their country, and especially to welcome those new recruits who have joined since 2017. Vanushi Walters: Minister, what other work is supporting the Police? Hon GINNY ANDERSEN: We know it's not enough to simply have more police on the ground in the communities; we need the right rules and the right tools in order to do their jobs well. That's exactly why, alongside the 1,800 additional police, we've also invested in the Tactical Response Model rolled out nationally. We've also invested an additional $94 million into tackling gangs and organised crime, and we've changed the law to crack down on gang profits, seize and impound vehicles, and enable targeted powers during gang conflicts. This Government is committed to supporting our Police; unlike the austerity of the last Government that saw a decline under real police numbers. Question No. 5—Economic Development SPEAKER: Question No. 5, the Hon Michael Woodhouse. Marja Lubeck: No supp, Mr Mitchell? Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National): Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question— SPEAKER: Oh, be quiet, Marja Lubeck. Sorry about that—the Hon Michael Woodhouse. 5. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister for Economic Development: How much money, if any, has been spent on consultants and contractors working on the Government's Industry Transformation Plans since 1 July 2020, and how much is expected to be spent on consultants and contractors in the next financial year? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Minister for Economic Development): Talofa lava. Fa'afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. Industry transformation plans (ITPs) allow the Government, with businesses, workers, and iwi, to help industries become part of a high-wage, low-emission economy. ITPs reflect our strategy in Budget 2023 to strengthen the economy by investing in the basics for growth, skills, better infrastructure, and science and technology. Responsibility for development and delivery of industry transformation plans rests across multiple agencies. For the five ITPs that fall within Vote Business, Science and Innovation, for which I am responsible, approximately $4.6 million has been spent on consultancy services from 1 July 2020 to the beginning of May 2023. Scoping work to deliver on the ITPs over the next financial year is still in progress, so no estimate is available for the second part of his question. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Can she confirm that that $4.6 million is part of more than $200 million the Government plans to spend on industry transformation plans, and at a current cost of $75,000 per page; how on earth does this represent good value for money? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: What I can confirm is that good value for money is lifting the productivity of the labour market and the environmental performances of key industries, which is essential to underpin higher living standards in the future. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well, in that case, does she agree with the chair of the Productivity Commission, Ganesh Nana, who said that ITPs were "very small, not attracting any non-government dollars, and don't have connections to the researchers"? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: What I do agree with is that six of the eight ITPs that have been developed and launched have actions already under way, including through Budget 2023, where $29 million has been invested as a result of the ITP in the agritech catalyst. Hon Peeni Henare: Can the Minister confirm that the ITP development was done with the sector, the community, the workers, and also Māori and unions to make sure that the planning process was done with sound research and sound information? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: Absolutely, I can confirm that industry transformation plans are a partnership both with business, workers, and iwi to help our industries become part of a high-wage, low-emission economy. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does she agree with BusinessDesk's Pattrick Smellie, who said, "If a listed company were to spend whatever has been spent so far on the ITPs to produce as little as they have, shareholders sure as hell wouldn't be voting them a few tens of millions of dollars to keep going.", and why did the Government vote itself tens of millions more in Budget 2023 to keep them going? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: As I've said in my previous answer, ITPs provide a way for the Government and industries to partner to transform industries for the future. You must have a plan in order to plan for the future, as opposed to policy on the hoof. Hon Michael Wood: Does the Minister agree with the head of the Employers and Manufacturers Association, Brett O'Reilly, who said in respect of the advanced manufacturing ITP, "We know through COVID there was a fresh appreciation of the contribution that advanced manufacturing makes to the New Zealand economy and people's livelihoods. We need to build on that, and the ITP sets a clear path to achieving the growth and productivity gains our country needs to compete."? [Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! I am going to give Government members a warning. Simply standing up and asking a question such as that, and we've had two so far, basically almost giving a narrative at the end of them and they're clearly over—giving the answer to the Minister really is out of order. So I'm going to rule that one out of order. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Wouldn't she agree that with millions being spent on consultants and plans at a cost of $75,000 per page, the only industry this Government is transforming is the consultancy industry? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: As I've said previously, ITPs reflect our strategy to strengthen the industries for the future. Consultancy investment has been crucial to the development of ITPs—for example, research to enable evidence-based decision-making, market reports to provide baseline information and sector insight, and business case development to support large investment initiatives such as the $29 million in Budget 2023 for the agritech catalyst. Question No. 6—Health 6. MARJA LUBECK (Labour) to the Minister of Health: What announcement has the Government recently made about reducing pay disparity between community and hospital nurses? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): Last week, I was pleased to announce that approximately 6,100 more GP community nurses and kaiāwhina will be eligible for pay rises of an average of 8 percent. This will go a long way to addressing pay disparity between hospital nurses and nurses in the community, including GP nurses. This will also lift pay rates for about 1,300 nurses and kaiāwhina who work in Family Planning, Plunket, Well Child Tamariki Ora, school nursing services, mental health and addition, rural hospitals, telehealth, community care services, and the youth one stop shops. Marja Lubeck: How will this support GP community nurses and kaiāwhina with the cost of living? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: This significant investment is a major step towards tackling longstanding issues of pay gaps between nurses who work in the community and those who work in hospitals. This incentivises nurses to work in parts of the sector that keep people well in their homes and communities and supports those nurses with the rising cost of living. Marja Lubeck: When will these increases come into effect for these nurses? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: This group of hard-working nurses will benefit from this pay boost from July this year. This payment is in addition to the payment that 8,160 nurses and kaiāwhina received under this initiative from the start of April. Marja Lubeck: How many nurses will benefit from this programme of work? Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: In total, this pay disparity programme has increased the pay of 14,250 nurses and kaiāwhina across New Zealand. I am proud of this Government's record on valuing this vital workforce. Nurses play a critical role in caring for the health and wellbeing of our community. This is in addition to our action for nurses employed by Te Whatu Ora in hospitals. Since we became Government, graduate nurse base salaries have risen 35 percent from $49,000 to $66,000, and the top base salary for registered nurses has risen 43 percent from $66,000 to $95,000. Question No. 7—Revenue 7. DAMIEN SMITH (ACT) to the Minister of Revenue: How many people earning less than $180,000 a year with a family trust will pay the 39 percent rate of tax on any income they earn from that trust, and does he think it is fair for someone earning $80,000, such as a hairdresser, mechanic, or butcher, to be subject to the top tax rate if their business is held in a trust? Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Associate Minister of Revenue) on behalf of the Minister of Revenue: I am advised that Inland Revenue does not hold the information requested by the member, because it is dependent on how the trust operating the business treats the income—in particular, whether the income of the trust is taxed as trustee income and therefore taxed at the trustee rate, or beneficiary income taxed at the beneficiary's personal tax rate. Regarding the second part of the question, under both the current law and the proposed changes, trustees have the ability to distribute the income of the trust to the beneficiary to be taxed at their personal tax rate. In the example in the member's question, the effective income tax rate for someone earning $80,000 is approximately 22 percent, which is lower than the current trust rate of 33 percent. Accordingly, currently the trust would normally distribute the business income to such a beneficiary of the trust to be taxed at their lower personal tax rate. This can continue, in which case the tax change will have no impact on their tax position. Alternative methods to the same effect include payment out by way of salary if the butcher works in her or his business. The substantial effect of the change is to reduce tax avoidance by the wealthy, high-income New Zealanders who do earn more than $180,000 and who otherwise could avoid tax via trusts. [Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! We'll hear the supplementary in silence, please. Damien Smith: Is the Minister aware that in the 2021 financial year, 92 percent of trusts in New Zealand earned less than $180,000, and is he concerned about how middle-income families, small-business owners, and retirees with trusts will be impacted by these proposed tax changes? Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: On behalf of the Minister, yes, I am aware of the number of small-earning trusts. In fact, it's really interesting to know exactly how trustee income is distributed in this country. The top 5 percent of trusts with some taxable income in the 2021 tax year accounted for 78 percent of all trustee income. In fact, most trusts have relatively small amounts of trustee income. The lower 75 percent of trusts with taxable income accounted for only 2.5 percent of trustee income. In fact, of course, with that lower amount of trustee income, if it is distributed to the beneficiaries, then it is taxed at the beneficiaries' marginal tax rates. It is a fairly straightforward matter to do this. Damien Smith: Does the Minister recognise that many families put their assets into trusts to protect them from relationship breakdowns or the event of a remarriage, and does he think it's fair for these families to pay an extra 6 percent or even 9 percent tax for protecting their assets? Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: On behalf of the Minister, of course, in order for trustee tax to be paid on income earned by a trust, that trust would have to earn income in the first place. If assets are being placed into a family trust, it is for the protection of the asset, not in order to earn income. Such family trusts, we think, earn very little income. However, it is impossible to tell how much income family trusts earn because tax law does not make a distinction between family trusts, trusts that are used for business, or trusts that are used for investments and so on. They are all just trusts for the purposes of tax law. Damien Smith: Supplementary? SPEAKER: Sorry, the member has run out of supplementaries. Question No. 8—Whānau Ora 8. SORAYA PEKE-MASON (Labour) to the Minister for Whānau Ora: How is Budget 2023 supporting the kaupapa of Whānau Ora to improve whānau wellbeing? Hon PEENI HENARE (Minister for Whānau Ora): Whānau Ora has supported our whānau from crisis to crisis, from COVID-19, recent weather events, and currently through tough economic times. The success of Whānau Ora comes down to Government working together with our whānau and community to determine their own wellbeing. Since 2018, this Government has increased the Whānau Ora budget by 145 percent to invest in the kaupapa that lifts whānau wellbeing. This year, we have invested $168.1 million for the next four years. With this funding, we will ensure the Whānau Ora workforce, including our Māori and Pacific providers, are well looked after. We will also ensure we can continue to rise to the increasing demands in the current economic context, supporting thousands more whānau each year to access the support they need and deserve. Soraya Peke-Mason: How will Whānau Ora support māmā, their pēpi, and their whānau through the funding provided in this year's Budget? Hon PEENI HENARE: This year, the Government announced $64.4 million over four years for the Ngā Tini Whetū initiative for delivery across the North Island. This funding is focused on supporting māmā, pēpi, and whānau through the first 1,000 days' period—a period we know is a pivotal time for whānau, parents, and their child. The first 1,000 days is often determinative of future wellbeing outcomes for whānau, and the initial prototype of Ngā Tini Whetū was a great success. Recently, I attended the launch of reports evidencing this success, which speaks to the power of whānau-led service delivery. This funding allows Whānau Ora to test the Ngā Tini Whetū model with a specific kaupapa of huge importance to whānau. Soraya Peke-Mason: How will Budget 2023 support the Whānau Ora workforce? Hon PEENI HENARE: This year's Budget will provide $35 million over four years to ensure Whānau Ora providers can continue their support for whānau and continue to develop their skills. I've seen firsthand the work Whānau Ora kaimahi do across Aotearoa New Zealand, and I am proud to see funding that recognises this extraordinary work. The funding increases will ensure staff wages can reflect performance and living costs. Pasifika Futures, one of the three commissioning agencies, have told me that this recognises the considerable cost pressures that they are currently under, but allows them to continue the important work that their whānau need. Soraya Peke-Mason: What feedback is the Minister hearing about the announcements? Hon PEENI HENARE: Hugely positive—with the exception of the other side of the House. The Whānau Ora Budget announcement has been well received. My colleagues and I travelled the motu—which means country—last week and here is some of the feedback. Pasifika Futures say they are pleased to have the amazing work our families and partners have recognised in Budget 2023. Tairāwhiti region says, "Ka nui te mihi, Minita." These are huge investments for Māori that I believe will only strengthen us as a people and as a community. Question No. 9—Energy and Resources 9. STUART SMITH (National—Kaikōura) to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that the tone of the Government's campaign suggesting New Zealanders take shorter showers is "a bit off"; if so, does she think spending $2.8 million on that campaign is acceptable during a cost of living crisis? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources): Yes, I agree with the Prime Minister. As I said last week, the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA) are reviewing the material of their regular energy efficiency campaign to make sure the tone is right, particularly during a cost of living crisis. While it is EECA's job to provide information to the public about energy efficiency, and it does that on a regular basis, I acknowledge that releasing the campaign on the same day as the official cash rate was poorly timed. I note that this energy efficiency campaign happens regularly, and the Energy Spot goes back to 2009, when it was launched by the previous National Government, by then energy Minister Gerry Brownlee. Stuart Smith: Is she aware that when former Minister of Energy and Resources the Hon Gerry Brownlee ran an energy saving campaign, inflation was as low as 1.7 percent, and can she confirm that when she announced the "Finding Money in Weird Places" campaign, inflation was at a staggering 6.7 percent? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: What I can confirm is that in 2009, when the Energy Spot campaign was launched, of course this was the year that New Zealand went into recession for the first time in a decade, in the wake of the global financial crisis, and GDP fell by 4.3 percent in that year. But I've always thought that Gerry Brownlee and I agree on most things, and when it comes to times when households are finding it tough, there can actually be some merit in our agency, which is tasked with educating people on how it is they can save money on their power bills—we are giving just that information on how to save money on power bills. Stuart Smith: How much money will the average household save by having a shorter shower, and is that more or less than the extra $760 that New Zealanders are forking out in mortgage repayments over the last two years? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: As the member has probably seen, households can save up to $500 across all of the tips that are there. But I do notice—I hold this example from 2009, headed, "Getting out of hot water", where there was advice for people to reduce their shower time in a household of three—that each minute you add to your shower is about $70 a year. It also told people to wash their clothes in cold water, fix dripping hot taps, and to check the shower floor. The information that was released is very much a continuation of the information that was pioneered by that innovator Gerry Brownlee in his time as the Minister of energy. Stuart Smith: Does she seriously think that the solution to solving this country's prolonged cost of living crisis is to lecture New Zealanders about having shorter showers and using their slow cooker more? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In 2023, the advice that was issued was for people to change the washing machine settings to cold water to save up to about $50 a year. I think this was a little less prescriptive than 2012, when the National Government told people to save energy by using cold water to wash their clothes and other lightly soiled loads. Our Government does not take a position on how soiled people's washing is. I seek leave to table this example from the 2009 Energy-wise campaign. It is not publicly available. I had to reach deep into the archives of EECA to retrieve this information. Nicola Willis: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Obviously, we can't table things that are already publicly available. I'm wondering if that, like the Minister's brochure, was sent to 600,000 people in full colour, at taxpayer expense? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: Yeah—no, you're not! And that wasn't a point of order either. We'll just call that one all and leave it there. Question No. 10—Housing 10. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister of Housing: Is she committed to ensuring the Kāinga Ora build programme will deliver enough housing for everyone currently on the waiting list and for projected future needs? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): I'm proud of our Government's record, adding a record number of homes through Kāinga Ora and community housing providers (CHPs) since 2017—more than any other Government since the 1970s. Through Budget 2023, we have also committed both operating and capital funding to deliver an additional 3,000 public homes by June 2025. This commitment provides certainty for Kāinga Ora and CHPs to maintain the momentum that they have built up. As I have previously said, each political party will need to show New Zealand what their delivery plans are ahead of the election and how it fits within their prioritised manifesto commitments. But public housing alone will not solve New Zealand's housing crisis, and that's why we've invested a massive $3.8 billion in the Housing Acceleration Fund to fund essential infrastructure like roads and pipes, as well as investing $350 million into the Affordable Housing Fund to deliver more affordable rentals, which will also help to reduce the wait-list. Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she think it is fair to not commit to adequately funding the Kāinga Ora build programme so that everyone on the housing waiting list has a warm, dry, affordable home to live in so she can turn it into an election year political football? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The member's characterisation is simply not correct. Our Government, at each Budget, has put additional funding into the operational funding that is required to build State houses. When we came into Government, there was only income-related rent subsidy funding or operational funding for around a thousand additional places. In the time that we have been in Government, we have increased the Budget each and every year to fund increased commitments. I am proud to stand here as a Labour Minister of Housing and say that one in seven of every public houses in this country was built by our Government in the last six years. Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree that it is essential to have a long-term build programme for Kāinga Ora to clear the public housing waiting list, and, if so, why was that not present in the Budget? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Yes, I do agree, and that is why our Government, at each and every Budget, has put funding in to ensure that momentum can be maintained. When I spend time with both our community housing providers and with Kāinga Ora, in order for them to do the contracting that is required to maintain momentum of the largest State house build in a generation, they need the ability to contract out to 2025. That is exactly what our Government has delivered. Our Government has delivered operational funding for an additional 21,000 public and transitional houses over the last six years in Government. A decade before that, across both our community housing providers and our State house provider, we ended up with 1,500 fewer houses over that decade. What we have done is something I am proud of. Ricardo Menéndez March: Will the Minister commit to changing the ratio of public versus private homes that are being built as part of redevelopments so that we can clear the public housing wait sooner and ensure that everyone has a warm, dry home to live in? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: One of the things that I spoke about when I spoke at the Community Housing Aotearoa Conference last week was actually about the fact that what I want to see us do in the year that we've just funded of the public housing plan is build in those very difficult places, those places where we haven't built for decades because we do not own the land. It is about rebuilding our public housing infrastructure outside of our main centres. So, no, I won't commit to that, because I want to see Gisborne have State housing again. I want to see Rotorua have State housing again. I want to see Timaru have State housing again. I want to see Ashburton have State housing again. Making a simple commitment like the member is asking me to do would be short-changing the people in regional New Zealand. Question No. 11—Commerce and Consumer Affairs 11. LEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour) to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: Talofa lava lau afioga le Fofoga Fetalai. What announcements has he made about supporting competition and better deals for consumers across the economy? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Three market studies by the Commerce Commission have found concerning use of land covenants: building supplies, fuel, and groceries. Large players in these sectors use land agreements to make sure their competitors can't locate close by. This tactic obviously has a chilling effect on competition. Using land agreements that dampen down competition for consumers isn't good enough. So that's why I'm undertaking a review of anti-competitive land agreements. Lemauga Lydia Sosene: What are anti-competitive land agreements? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: These are agreements— Chris Bishop: Google it! Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: —such as land covenants or lease agreements—this is for you, Mr Woodhouse—that make it harder for an existing or potential competitor to do business. For example, a company selling a gas station might prohibit the land ever being used for another gas station. Another example is where a land purchase agreement requires only building materials from a certain supplier to be used. These agreements suppress competition, and this Government is doing something about it. Lemauga Lydia Sosene: Why do they matter to Kiwi consumers? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Kiwi consumers win when existing businesses compete and when new businesses are able to get off the ground. A competitive market sees different players vying for customers with the best deals on price or the most innovation and products, services, and variety. This Government knows Kiwi consumers deserve the best, and that's why we will unearth what's going on in these arrangements and act to ensure the most competitive markets—not just in fuel, groceries, and building supplies but wherever they're needed in the economy. Lemauga Lydia Sosene: How can Kiwis get involved in the next phase of the work? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: It's time for Kiwi businesses that have experience in anti-competitive land agreements to start thinking about how the system could work best. Shortly, the Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment will be seeking feedback from anyone with experience and insights into how these agreements are working. With input from businesses small and large, we can determine what arrangements are out there and whether they're working for New Zealand consumers. Then, unlike the last Government, we can get cracking to get these markets working for all New Zealanders. Question No. 12—Cyclone Recovery 12. CHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi) to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: How much of the cyclone recovery funding provided to the Hawke's Bay region for business support grants has been allocated to date, and can he confirm whether any funding that has not been paid out in grants will be returned to the Government? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Associate Minister for Cyclone Recovery) on behalf of the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: Fa'afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. On behalf of the Minister, the business support package to help businesses in cyclone-affected regions is led by the local delivery partners, who know the region best, supported by central government through the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE). The response in each area will be different, and this regionally led approach means the decisions made by the local agencies will be driven by the local needs in their communities. All applicants who have met the criteria have been or will be paid out. I am advised that, for the Hawke's Bay, $21.6 million of the allocated funding of $30.4 million available to support businesses in the region has so far been paid out to help with clean-up costs from the impact of the cyclone. The grants have been paid to around 1,500 businesses. These figures have not been finalised, with some outstanding grants yet to be fully processed. The policy, as we announced it when we released it, was that any remaining funding that has not been allocated will be returned to MBIE. Chris Penk: Does the Government seriously believe that the needs of businesses hit hard by Cyclone Gabrielle have been met by the regime they established, and if not, what is the Government going to do about it, in particular that additional $8.8 million that has not yet been distributed? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: The Government absolutely acknowledges that it is a tough time for our affected businesses right throughout the North Island who have been severely affected by these weather events. The distribution of business support grants is made by the local delivery partners and the criteria that was set by MBIE. We will ensure that we are supporting these businesses right throughout the recovery phase of the cyclone, and we will continue to keep a watching brief on it. Chris Penk: Does the Minister agree with the comments of the Hon Kieran McAnulty that among key factors contributing to the lack of funding delivery is "people's emotional capacity", and if so, does the Minister believe that people's emotional capacity will be helped or hindered by the lack of distribution of these funds earmarked to support them? Hon BARBARA EDMONDS: I always agree with my ministerial colleagues, particularly when their comments are made in the context around communicating the support that's available to them. Right at the beginning of the cyclone, it was a difficult time for a lot of those businesses, and we had a role to play, through local delivery partners, to ensure that we communicated to them how they could access that business support.