- Korihi e aku manu topatopa ki runga ki te rangi, Takiri mai ana te ata i runga I te toi huarewa o nga ariki, Ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea. Tihewa Mauriora! Kia tatou katoa. This week on the Hui. Internal dramas and low polling; where to from here for the Green Party? - Now is the time to completely change how we do things. - Co-leader of the Green Party, Marama Davidson, joins us in studio. And the Mataaho Collective celebrate ten years of creating art. - It's a real well-oiled machine once we get rolling. - Weaving together their latest masterpiece at Te Papa Tongarewa. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 Nga mate tuatinitini, nga mate tuamanomano o te wa. Haramai haere. Tatou kei te ao turoa tihei wa mauri ora. And welcome back to the Hui. We begin tonight with a word of congratulations, of course, the Kings Birthday Honours. A knighthood for Selwyn Parata, he uri no Ngati Porou me Ngai Tahu, for services to Maori. And a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit Award to Kevin Prime, he uri no Ngati Hine, Ngapuhi, Ngati Whatua me Tainui, for services to Maori, the environment and health. And, of course, many other Maori receiving awards. E nga uri Maori katoa I whakawhiwhia ki nga tohu o te Kingi, nei ka mihi. Our kaikorero, our guest on the programme this week is the Co-leader of the Green Party, Te Ropu Kakariki o Aotearoa, The Honourable Marama Davidson. If the critics are to be believed, the Party is under pressure with the latest Kantar Poll showing a drop in numbers to just 7%. The Honourable Marama Davidson, Minister for Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, and Associate Minister of Housing, he uri o Ngapuhi, Te Rarawa me Ngati Porou, joins me now in the studio for this extended interview. E te Minita, tena koe. - Tena koe. - Thank you very much for your time. Let's start with housing ` the Waitangi Tribunal has, for a couple of years, been investigating the Crown's approach to housing ` Wai 2750. What is your assessment of the Crown's performance so far? - The Waitangi Tribunal report is really important; it affirms what Maori have been saying for generations and it is clear ` we have not failed to properly provide housing as a human right, but especially as tangata whenua and Tiriti rights. So I'm really pleased to receive that report. - OK. How, then, are we dealing with a situation where our most vulnerable, actually in many cases, for them, it's getting worse; their ability to access housing, their ability to be able to be housed safely and securely; let's look at Loafers Lodge and what happened with that tragedy recently. Is it fair to say that we have continued to fail them? And what's that like for you as an associate minister? - In Aotearoa, everyone ` especially Tangata Whenua ` should be homed on Aotearoa land, and that's something I want to make really, really clear. What happened at Loafers Lodge was unacceptable and preventable. We should be treating housing as a human right, as a core public good, and this is what my focus and the Greens' focus has always been about. - How do we ensure that we are not continuing to be complicit in their marginalisation? Effectively, what are we doing to help? - We need to make sure that we are prioritising homes for people and not just a way to build wealth because that has impacted more harshly for Maori than it has on most other people. So that's the first step there and that's what the Green Party has been clearer about ` more public housing, more Maori housing. I'm pleased and proud that this last five years has been the most Maori housing, Maori-led housing, that we've ever seen, but we've got to do much more of that, as well as Maori support services ` it's not just the whare, Julian, as we know, Maori have been very clear to us as ministers, it's also about the manaaki that goes alongside providing a home. - OK. So do you accept the criticism though, that the numbers aren't good enough, and in actual fact, we're simply nibbling at the edges rather than dealing quickly enough with the massive problem that we face? - I do agree that it's not good enough; I am absolutely clear that this is a political choice. The reason why we are struggling, why too many whanau are struggling today is political choices that have been made over successive governments, decades in the making, of not treating housing as a human right. So this is why we need to turn that ` we need to prioritise homes for people, affordable housing, public housing, community housing, Maori housing and kaupapa Maori responses to homelessness, which is what I've been proud to support in my associate ministerial portfolio. - You said in March, I think it was, at the National Maori Housing Conference in Rotorua, if my memory serves me right, that the government should quote 'decolonise the power and resources out, 'devolve the bureaucracy and get out of the way.' How realistic is that? - The only way we will resolve housing, especially for Maori, is if Maori are leading the mahi, with the support and the authentic partnership with Crown agencies. We are starting to see that work now, but we need to get a lot more of that to continue, and if people want that choice then they need to vote for the politicians who are committed to seeing more Maori partnership housing with the Crown supporting, but Maori leading that, and that's what has to happen. - So as an Associate Minister of Housing, though, Maori will be coming to you and saying` I mean you'll be aware of this, right ` they'll be saying` they'll be saying this ` the responsibility is on your shoulders to be able to make it work, so how are you doing that? - The responsibility is on ministers and agencies right across government. I have a real responsibility, as with all other ministers, to make sure we are un-tying-up the... the systems that haven't worked for Maori and that means letting Maori just do the work rather than having to deal with the agencies working in silos; rather than having to deal with low trust partnerships ` trust Maori to do what is right ` we've started to see that, but we need to keep on it; give Maori what is needed to support their communities and whanau ` we're starting to see that, but more is needed; and those are the approaches that I absolutely stand behind. - That sounds like unblocking impediments; it doesn't sound like decolonisation. - Unblocking impediments, removing barriers is important work. It's and important part of decolonisation, but also addressing and being up front about the systemic racism across our systems is another part. It's the same part of the work, but it's about being honest that the systems have had in-built racism across many, across 180 years. - So let's call a spade a spade then. Where's the biggest impediment? Why is it taking so long? - There's` There's many. There's many impediments ` there's Maori being discriminated when they go and look for a whare, because people do not want Maori to be living and renting they're whare; there's the way that poverty has impacted worse for Maori than many other groups, and our whanaunga Pasifika are another group who have been hurt by the racism. So let's be really clear that it's not about non-Maori, it's not about non-Maori having cultural education workshops, it's about non-Maori having workshops about their own cultural assumptions about` from their own culture. That's where a lot of the impediment is as well. - And as I said in that quote that you mentioned at the housing conference about getting resources out to the people, why then, in particular circumstances ` one that comes to mind recently is the issues that iwi are facing in Turanganui-a-Kiwa, they've been very clear that they'd rather not work with the council, they'd rather get the resources themselves and do the mahi because that's their responsibility as the Iwi authority. And yet the latest funding, $10 million, to be able to deal with whanau who were adversely affected by the climate events recently there in the takiwa ` they still have to go through council processes to be able to do that. Why is that happening when... - I mean` - ...we have been clear. - I'm not sure; I'm not across that decision that has been made. It surprises me. We've seen in Covid, we've seen marae, when they're able to step up directly is where the good mahi is done for whanau struggling on the ground. So I support that we're able to just directly get the money to where it needs to go. - OK. As I said, you're the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence. Almost 30% of New Zealand adults experience intimate partner violence or sexual violence at some point in their life, with women three times more likely to experience sexual violence than men. 94% of sexual assaults were not reported to police. How can we possibly turn this around? - We can. Aotearoa has to be a place where people can live free from violence, where people can live with safety in peace. Just over a year and a half ago, I announced the first-ever bold, nationwide plan to eliminate family violence, sexual violence. We've made some good progress, but we're setting up the foundations for even more mahi to do, and so I'm really proud to keep pushing that through. - You say you're making good progress. How do you know that? What stats are telling you that? - One of the big issues is that we need good information and we need to value lived experience; we've undermined that for generations. I'm building that system ` it will take time, it is a journey ` but we are putting those roots in the ground in a way that we've never done before. This is government doing things differently, properly working with community to lead this work, focusing on prevention and focusing on healing, and there is much that we have done just in the year-and-a-half of a 25-year strategy, but there is a lot more that we have to achieve and I'm proud to be leading that work. - And a lot more to discuss ` we're going to do that and more after the break. Stay with us. E whakarongo ana koutou ki tatou korero I te wa e whakahaeretia ai te huringa tau o Kingi Tiare. We will have more with Green Party Co-leader, the Honourable Marama Davidson, after this. Kia ora mai ano. Ko ta tatou hui e whitiki ana I nga korero o te wa. Welcome back to our extended interview with Green Party Co-leader, the Honourable Marama Davidson. Marama, the Green Party has been in some form of partnership relationship with the Labour Party for many years. How would you characterise the state of that relationship now? - Good working relationship. We've got things done ` we got Te Aorerekura, the violence prevention strategy over the line; we've got the first ever climate adaptation plan over the line; good working relationship and we've been able to maintain our independent political positions on issues for the Green Party as well. So that's how I would` how I would categorise it ` get things done, but also maintain our own values - Do you agree, though, that the mandate that was given to the Labour Party, particularly from Maori, in 2020, has not borne out the fruits of the reward that Labour received from Maori voters? And is there a role there potentially for the Green Party to be able to deal with that, to be able to respond to that? - We have a priority, as Te Pati Kakariki, that we know that our people want strong climate action to create a Papatuanuku that is stable for mokopuna; we know that we need to make sure every whanau has enough to live good lives; we know that people want to protect our taiao ` those are the priorities, those are the visions that we are always putting at the forefront. If people want the stronger action in those areas, it is more Green MPs influencing the future direction of the next government that is going to help that. And yes, we've done some stuff, but we know there's a lot more that needs to be done, and faster. - Let me whakamaori the wairua of that korero. That the relationship isn't good, actually, that your perspectives and the issues that you have pushed as a Green Party haven't been valued by the Labour Government. - We got stuff done, more stuff than we would have been able to do with relationships in other political parties. And that's important ` it is only because of James Shaw as Climate Minister that we've had more climate action in the past five years than over the past 30 years, three decades ` ka pai. We've had more momentum in transforming the prevention violence system than we've ever had before; that's what I hear from the sector ` ka pai. We also know we could do more ` we could have rent controls on housing, for example, where Maori are highly represented as people who rent; we could actually make a difference right now to lift the lowest incomes to be higher. So those are the areas where we know more Green MPs would also make a difference. - I want to ask you a question about mana wahine political leadership and the way in which Maori women political leaders have been treated and the vitriol that they have faced ` actually over some issues but generally speaking ` that has risen, actually, it feels like, over the last three years. And I want to get your response to that and what can be done to help` manaaki, actually, our future wahine Maori political leaders. - Every place in Aotearoa should be safe or wahine, for wahine Maori, absolutely; we are tangata whenua. This is our whenua. We have a right to be safe wherever we want to show up. - But that's not the case now, is it? - It's confronting for people to see brown Maori woman leaders in places of power. We have to bear in mind that we can't leave any of our leaders, at any level, alone ` we have to provide collective support whenever there's challenges, whenever the resistance ` the built-in racism ` raises its ugly head, we have to get in behind all of us together, our leaders, and make sure people know we're not alone. This is the mahi of all of us and the generations before. - How are you going to do that? So, I mean, you've got a leader from the North, Huhana Lyndon, who is now a part of the Green Party, a high list-placing actually, within the Green Party listing for the election this year. How do you` How do you, as a leader, protect her and others as they come into the roles, as they come into politics? - It's about the kaupapa of the Green Party and the responsibility of the Green Party as well. It's about understanding that our membership, our policies, our charter of the Green Party bears a responsibility to keep all of our wahine Maori MPs safe and that people step up and put that support in as well. - How did those values, how did the Green Party manaaki the situation that led to what happened with Dr Elizabeth Kerekere? - Well, that is about me as a wahine Maori and a co-leader also having a responsibility to keep our workplace safe, safe for all MPs, safe for all staff, and that is a tikanga that I uphold as a wahine Maori leader. We had a process that we all had all agreed to and that was being undertaken. It was cut short when Dr Elizabeth decided to resign and leave, and that's unfortunate, but that happened and I do want to mihi to the work that she has done with Maori, with rainbow communities, with Rangatahi communities over decades; nothing will ever undermine the incredible brilliance, mahi and skill that she has offered into those` into that work. - OK. I want to talk also about the way in which Maori issues are raised by other parties, particularly as we go into election ` bilingual signage, things of that nature. What is your role and responsibility in ensuring that the wider New Zealand public understands Maori perspectives, values that Maori have when it comes to these kind of issues? And when we use to terms like dog-whistling, because that just seems convenient for some people to say something like that in response. - There is no place for the racism, it's just racism. - Is that what this is? - Yes, it is. There is no place from political leaders, Julian, I want to be clear that political leaders have a choice to whip that up or to lean into the aspirational vision. So I, as a wahine Maori, sure, I do that every day and can do that every day. Your question also needs to go to the political leaders across all of the other parties. 'Do you choose these moments?' Even if it was a question, a patai from the audience, 'Do you choose to lean in and empathise with the fear and the ignorance, 'or as a political leader, do you choose to say 'your mokopuna will love learning te reo Maori at school?' 'Your whanau will get used to more Maori being around us and that's going to be a beautiful, amazing thing. Do they choose to do that? No, I haven't seen that from those other political leaders. - An interesting stat I saw, actually just before you came in, a story about the increase in the number of Maori, actually, on the Maori roll ` 6400 new Maori voters on the Maori roll, 5518 of them switching from the general roll. What do you think has motivated that? Is there any alignment to what we were just talking about, do you think? - It's awesome ` there have been some really strong mahi and campaigns, not just from political parties but also from people on the ground who are helping getting the word out there, social media. I think we have to acknowledge the good mahi that everyone's getting the word about why that's important to preserve our unique Maori place in voting, our unique Maori issues in government system. Kei te pai And I also think` I hope that Maori are starting to see the power of working together, of engaging with the system and that we have an opportunity to make some influence here. - The Honourable Marama Davidson, thank you for your time. We hope to be able to talk to you again before the election. something we call The Honourable Marama Davidson, co-leader of the Green Party, Te Ropu Kakariki o Aotearoa. Stay with us ` after this short break, we'll meet a collective of four wahine Maori whose work is wowing visitors at Te Papa. Hoki mai ano, ki ta tatou hui. A collective of wahine Maori artists is celebrating a decade of working together across the globe with a project at Te Papa. The Mataaho Collective, of four wahine Maori artists, creates intricate installations on a grand scale, combining traditional toi Maori art practices with contemporary materials. We first caught up with them during our Hui Summer Series. Anei te purongo a John Boynton. (STIRRING MUSIC) - Here at Aotearoa's national museum, Te Papa Tongarewa, the threads of a special project are being woven together. - Should we ribbon it again. - Think we've got a bit tangled. - Just drop it. - This is art like you've never seen before. - OK, I'm just gonna walk it out. The first day when we started putting takapau together, I felt, like, euphoric. Like, we've been planning for a year! It's finally happening. - Takapau is the latest work from the Mataaho Collective. - Everyone's here, we're working together. It's a real well-oiled machine once we get rolling. Do you wanna come down a bit? - The collective of four wahine Maori artists create intricate installations on a grand scale. - We joined forces and realized that we could go big, straight away, and we've just kind of built on that over 10 years. - The Mataaho Collective's journey started together in 2012, with their first work Te Whare Pora. - One of the things that, when we were making our first work, that stood out in the conversations, in the planning, was that we could make something that we wouldn't be able to make on our own. - So we came together and we decided to make a work of single authorship. And we figured that with all of us working together on one work, we could make it really big. - Made from faux mink blankets and incorporating Maori kowhaiwhai patterns, it combines modern materials with traditional techniques. - So there's so many ways in which Maori, when new technologies and materials were presented before them, that there was a quick uptake and use of them within our community. So yeah, we see it as like a continuum and acknowledging that that tradition of innovation. - And they've shared this innovation in different art galleries around the world. From Germany to Canada, it's been a humbling experience. Hearing people's personal responses to work is always really special, because they're bringing their own experiences to it and making their own reality with their own perspectives. - Last year their work was recognised at home, receiving Aotearoa's biggest contemporary art award, the Walter's Prize. - One of the reasons why we came together was to feel confident in these kind of foreign landscapes of arts institutions, as wahine Maori. - Empowering wahine Maori, another major theme in their art. - Maori women were colonised different to Maori men, and so we really feel a sense of responsibility to uplift and highlight stories about and that involved wahine Maori, really make them the main character in these purakau. - After being separated through Covid, a new project at Te Papa is bringing them back under the same roof once again. - Our ideas flow better, our work comes forward better when we're actually physically together in wananga. I didn't know they were woven into quite narrow strips like this. - The inspiration for their new installation is Te Papa's collection of whariki or woven mats. - See how it just stays the same ` top of the leaf. - Today they're carrying out research in the Maori archives collection. - To be allowed in Te Whare Pora is so exciting for us. - It really helps to anchor the work, to ground the concepts that we're thinking of by referring to these specific techniques that our tupuna used and then thinking how we can extend that with the new materials that we're exploring. It's a really good starting place. - The collective's latest installation called Takapau is being made using 480 buckles and 6 kilometres worth of strop. - It's so cool. Like, to wake up and be like, oh, this is... This is our life. And we get to go and work with our friends, and get up the cherry picker and do fun things. It's amazing. - But bringing it to life requires not only creativity but engineering, maths and hard work. - Because of the scale of our work, is usually is very physical you walk out at the end of the day with aches and pains from holding your hands above your head all day or something but its real satisfying. - A selection of their work from the last decade will also be a part of a new exhibition. - There's some works in the show that our whanau haven't seen because we just really quickly finished it and sent it overseas. So we're really proud to be able to show it at home. - It's opening night and Takapau is complete. The Mataaho Collective's body of work is now centre stage at Te Papa. What's it like to see your whanau and friends come and see these pieces? - It's a bit of a tear-jerker. Yeah. It's hard to describe. It's the first time for us that we've really been able to have all our family here together to see the stuff that we get up to. - After 10 years of working together their bond is stronger than ever. - We're all kind of weirdos that went to art school, so to kind of keep on being those people, kind of like upholding our creativity is really important to us all. We strive to do that in our lives, so if that is inspiring to others, that's really exciting. - Kia mahira ake tatou ki nga kai o roto o te kete korero a ta tatou hui a te wiki e tu mai nei. Coming up next week on the Hui. More and more whanau are turning to weight-loss surgery to change their lives. - I've tried every kind of pill, every potion, every diet, I've tried them all, and nothing worked. - Some are resorting to using their KiwiSaver... - So $27,000 it cost to save my life. - ...while others are even travelling half way across the world. - It's just not in my budget to do it here in New Zealand. I chose Turkey because of all the research I'd done. - So why are there so many barriers to having surgery in Aotearoa? - There's so much demand for it, and how do you actually decide who get's surgery and who doesn't? - Kua whakahoro ake tatou i a tatou korero a te hui ki konei. You'll find links to our stories on our Facebook and Twitter accounts or at newshub.co.nz. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023