TENA TATOU KATOA. I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, NAU MAI — WELCOME TO NEWSHUB NATION THIS CONFERENCE WEEKEND FOR NATIONAL. REBECCA JOINS US LIVE FROM THE CAPITAL WITH THE LATEST FROM THE CAMPAIGN. THEY MIGHT HAVE LOST THEIR MINISTER, BUT OUR MIGRANTS STILL NEED ANSWERS. WE MEET TWO OF THEM... AND A POLITICAL DECISION LOOMS FOR MAORI. HOW TO DECIDE BETWEEN THE MAORI AND GENERAL ROLLS BEFORE THE CUT-OFF. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND SAM BAKER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 FIRST IN THE PROGRAMME TODAY — THE NATIONAL PARTY KICKS OFF ITS UNOFFICIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN THIS AFTERNOON. PARTY MEMBERS ARE GATHERING IN WELLINGTON FOR THEIR CONFERENCE AT THE MICHAEL FOWLER CENTRE, AND REBECCA WRIGHT IS ON THE GROUND THERE TODAY AND JOINING US NOW. WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE, REBECCA? WE ARE FIRST IN THE DOOR TODAY. THE CONFERENCE DOESN'T KICK OFF UNTIL 12.30 THIS AFTERNOON. THAT IS WHEN HUNDREDS OF NATIONAL PARTY MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS WILL FILE IN HERE TO THE MICHAEL FOWLER CENTRE. THEY WILL TAKE THEIR SEATS, SET UP BY GEOGRAPHIC REGION. THEY WILL PREPARE THEMSELVES FOR WEEKEND OF BEING RALLIED. THIS IS A GOOD CHANCE FOR NATIONAL TO RALLY ALL OF THEIR TROOPS BEFORE THAT CAMPAIGN KICKS OFF. THE MPS AND THE CANDIDATES WHICH I THINK THERE ARE AROUND 40, WILL BE MEETING DOWNSTAIRS PRETTY SOON TO HAVE A MEETING BEFORE THE CONFERENCE KICKS OFF. THAT IS WHEN THEY WILL GET ALL JAZZED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE DAYS AHEAD. WE KNOW THE THEME OF THIS CAMPAIGN WILL BE TO GET NEW ZEALAND BACK ON TRACK. EXPECT TO HEAR THAT A LOT IN THE NEXT 36 HOURS. CHRISTOPHER LUXON WILL BE THE HEADLINE ACT, THAT WILL BE TOMORROW. HE WILL COME IN HERE AND STAND UP ON THE STAGE, QUITE A CORPORATE FEEL. HE WILL ADDRESS THE PARTY BUT HE WILL ALSO BE ADDRESSING VOTERS. WE EXPECT HIM TO FOCUS ON TWO BIG AREAS FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY, WHICH IS ECONOMY AND LAW AND ORDER. HE WILL TELL NEW ZEALAND THAT CRIME IS OUT OF CONTROL. WE ARE EXPECTING POLICIES IN THE ECONOMY AREA AND ALSO IN THE LAW AND ORDER AREA. THAT IS THE AREAS THAT NATIONAL THINKS ARE A PRIORITY FOR KIWIS. WE HAVE SEEN THIS MORNING AS WE ARE STANDING HERE GETTING READY, THAT HE MAY ENTER TO SOME SEXY JAZZ MUSIC. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT CHANCE FOR CHRISTOPHER LUXON TO CONNECT WITH NEW ZEALAND VOTERS AGAIN. WE KNOW THAT HE HAS BEEN STRUGGLING TO DO THAT, SO WE ARE EXPECTING HIM TO TALK ABOUT HIS VALUES AND VISION AND WHY HE WANTS THE JOB OF PRIME MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY. SEXY JAZZ MUSIC, WHAT AN ENTICEMENT. LAST NIGHT, THE PARTY HAD A PRE-CONFERENCE EVENT WHERE THEY LAUNCHED THEIR CAMPAIGN FOR THE MAORI SEATS. THIS IS ACTUALLY REALLY FASCINATING BECAUSE NATIONAL HAS NOT RUN IN THE MAORI ELECTORATES FOR 21 YEARS. I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE HELD AN MAORI ELECTORATE SEAT FOR 80 YEARS, AND THOSE NUMBERS HIGHLIGHT HOW LONG THEY HAVE STEPPED AWAY FROM THE MAORI ELECTORATES. LAST NIGHT WE HEARD THAT THEY ARE BACK EVEN THOUGH AT SOME POINTS DURING THE PARTY'S HISTORY, THEY WANTED TO ABOLISH THOSE SEATS. BUT I THINK THE PARTY'S POSITION SORT OF SOFTENED UNDER JOHN KEY AND THEY ARE OPEN TO PHASING THEM OUT. IT'S TRICKY TO SEE A PLATFORM FOR THE MAORI PARTY OUT IN THOSE MAORI ELECTORATES. THIS IS A PART THAT WANTS TO ABOLISH THE MAORI HEALTH AUTHORITY, IT IS AGAINST CO-GOVERNANCE, IT DOESN'T THINK GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS SHOULD BE NAMED IN TE REO. AND ISN'T A FAN OF BILINGUAL ROAD SIGNS. SO IT'S HARD TO WORK OUT WHERE EXACTLY WE ENDED UP IN THAT DEBATE. NATIONAL DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE ANY BIG MAORI POLICY THAT IT CAN BRING TO THOSE MAORI ELECTORATES. INSTEAD IT SEEMS TO BE TRYING TO BRING THOSE MAORI VOTERS INTO THE NATIONAL TENT. I THINK THAT THIS HAS COME ABOUT BECAUSE OF CRITICISM OVER THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN NATIONAL. THIS IS AN ANSWER TO THAT. IT'S SOMETHING THE PARTY CAN POINT TO WHEN IT GETS THOSE CRITICISMS IF THEY HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. THEY CAN SAY 'WE ARE RUNNING IN THE MAORI ELECTORATES.' IT IS AN UNUSUAL MOVE. GIVEN EVERYTHING YOU'VE JUST OUTLINED, HOW ARE THEY EXPECTED TO GO? IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY TOUGH OUT THERE. THEY ARE RUNNING TWO CANDIDATES IN TE TAI HAU-A-URU, WHERE LAST ELECTION, THE PARTY GOT TO 784 VOTES, THAT IS TINY FOR A MAJOR PARTY HERE IN NEW ZEALAND. THEY ARE RUNNING IN TAMAKI MAKAURAU. ALSO GOING TO BE TOUGH FOR THEM. THE NATIONAL PARTY JUST GOT 3.4% OF THE MAORI VOTE IN THOSE ELECTORATES LAST ELECTION. THAT IS A BIG HILL FOR THEM TO CLIMB. THIS IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH ELECTION. IT IS GOING TO BE A GRIND ALL THE WAY FOR THE NEXT 112 DAYS. THAT IS THE SENSE THAT I'M GETTING HERE DOWN IN WELLINGTON FOR BOTH PARTIES. I SPOKE TO CHRISTOPHER BISHOP WHO IS LEADING THE CAMPAIGN FOR NATIONAL ABOUT WHAT LIES AHEAD. OK. IT IS CONFERENCE WEEKEND — A BIG WEEKEND FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY. IS THIS WHERE WE'RE GONNA GET THE SORT OF SIZZLE IN THE SAUSAGE, THE BIG TRANSFORMATIONAL POLICY THAT'S GONNA, SORT OF, REALLY PULL UP THE NATIONAL PARTY AND SET THE CAMPAIGN ALIGHT? WE'VE ALREADY ANNOUNCED 20 POLICIES SO FAR THIS YEAR, AND THERE'S MANY MORE TO COME OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND MONTHS. ON SUNDAY, IT'LL BE 100 DAYS TO GO UNTIL THE VOTING OPENS ON OCTOBER THE 2ND, AND IT'S GONNA BE A GREAT CONFERENCE. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. YOU ARE GONNA SEE SOME NEW POLICY FROM US, AND THERE'S MUCH MORE TO COME. LAW AND ORDER, ECONOMY — TWO HOT AREAS AT THE MOMENT. OUR BIG FOCUS OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND MONTHS IS TO TALK ABOUT FIXING THE ECONOMY, TO GET THE COST OF LIVING DOWN AND GET AN ECONOMIC GROWTH PLAN FOR THIS COUNTRY, BUT ALSO RESTORING LAW AND ORDER AND IMPROVING OUR SCHOOLS AND OUR HEALTH SERVICE. THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE CAMPAIGNING ON, AND SO YOU ARE GONNA SEE SOME ANNOUNCEMENTS AROUND THE ECONOMY AND AROUND LAW AND ORDER. YEAH. YOU SAID THAT YOU'VE PUT OUT 20 POLICIES SO FAR. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF POLICIES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT SHIFTING THE NEEDLE FOR YOU YET, ARE THEY, THOSE POLICIES. THESE ARE NOT THE BIG TRANSFORMATIONAL IDEAS OF THE NATIONAL PARTY THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW YET, ARE THEY? WHAT NEW ZEALANDERS ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON IS PRACTICAL, SENSIBLE, COMMON-SENSE POLICIES THAT WILL TAKE THE COUNTRY FORWARD. ACTUALLY, THEY'RE OVER BIG ASPIRATIONAL AMBITION WITH PIE-IN-THE-SKY NUMBERS. THEY HAD THAT UNDER LABOUR. PEOPLE REMEMBER 100,000 KIWIBUILD HOMES, LIGHT RAIL BY 2020, YOU KNOW, DRAGGING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN OUT OF POVERTY. THAT WAS THE ARDERN-STYLE POLITICS. WE'VE HAD SIX YEARS OF THAT, AND ACTUALLY KIWIS ARE OVER THAT. THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE COST OF LIVING OUT OF CONTROL, THEY'RE LOOKING AT INFLATION, THEY'RE LOOKING AT MORTGAGE INTEREST RATES, THEY'RE LOOKING AT CRIME OUT OF CONTROL, AND THEY JUST WANNA KNOW, YOU IN THE NATIONAL PARTY, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO TO HELP ME? AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON. SO HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE CHRISTOPHER LUXON STYLE OF POLITICS? YOU JUST DESCRIBED ARDERN. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S STYLE? PRACTICAL, COMMON-SENSE POLICIES TO TAKE NEW ZEALAND FORWARD AND GET THE COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK, AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE ANNOUNCED THINGS LIKE FAMILY BOOST — $75 A WEEK EXTRA FOR FAMILIES WITH KIDS, FOR EXAMPLE. I WANNA TALK TO YOU ABOUT THESE POLICIES, COS WE HAVE SEEN SOME POLICIES FROM YOU. WE'VE SEEN A LITTLE REHEATING IN THE LAW AND ORDER SPACE SO FAR WITH THE REVISION OF BOOT CAMPS; SORT OF A BACK-TO-THE-FUTURE IN EDUCATION, SORT OF, REVERTING TO SOME SORT OF NATIONAL STANDARDS-TYPE SITUATION; THE EXTENSION TO ECE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT... BUT THESE ARE ALREADY, SORT OF, EXISTING PROGRAMMES — A FIVE-POINT PLAN FOR THE ECONOMY TO FIX THE ECONOMY — BUT WHAT IS MISSING SO FAR IS FRESH IDEAS — AND NOT JUST FROM YOU GUYS; I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT THE ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT TOO — BUT WHERE ARE THE FRESH IDEAS? WELL, I REJECT YOUR CHARACTERISATION OF SOME OF THOSE POLICIES. WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION, FOR EXAMPLE, AN HOUR A DAY OF READING, WRITING AND MATHS... TEACHING THE BASICS BRILLIANTLY IS AN EXCELLENT POLICY. SURE. IT ACTUALLY ENDS A 30-YEAR EXPERIMENT ON OUR KIDS. BUT IT'S NOT A FRESH IDEA. I'M ASKING YOU, WHERE ARE THE FRESH IDEAS? WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING FOR THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS IN EDUCATION HAS FAILED, SO OUR WHOLE POINT IS TO ACTUALLY GO BACK TO WHAT WORKS. SO YOU NEED SOME FRESH IDEAS. NO, BACK TO WHAT WORKS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY AN HOUR A DAY OF READING, WRITING AND MATHS — FOCUSING ON THE BASICS. SO ACTUALLY IT MIGHT NOT BE A FRESH IDEA, BUT IT'S A GOOD IDEA, AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. WE'RE GONNA DO IT. SO WHERE ARE THE FRESH IDEAS? WELL, WE'VE GOT A WHOLE LOT OF NEW POLICIES. I ANNOUNCED JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO OUR 'GOING FOR HOUSING GROWTH' POLICY, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY DUMPING 30 YEARS OF DEMAND GROWTH INTO THE MARKET, NEW INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDING TOOLS FOR COUNCILS— BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA WIN YOU AN ELECTION. THAT'S NOT A BIG FRESH IDEA THAT'S GONNA WIN YOU AN ELECTION. ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT YOU'RE GONNA PLAY SMALL AND YOU'RE GONNA PLAY, SORT OF, CONSERVATIVE AND INCREMENTAL IN ALL OF THESE AREAS THAT YOU SAY MATTER TO KIWIS? IF THERE WAS A SILVER BULLET TO FIX THE ECONOMY IN NEW ZEALAND, WE WOULD PULL IT. THERE IS NO ONE BIG SILVER BULLET IN THE SAME WAY THAT THERE'S NO ONE GRAND OVERARCHING THING THAT THE LABOUR GOVERNMENT TALKS ABOUT EITHER. ACTUALLY, WHAT NEW ZEALAND NEEDS IS A WHOLE SERIES OF SENSIBLE CHANGES TO GET THE ECONOMY BACK ON TRACK, TO RESTORE LAW AND ORDER AND TO FIX OUR SCHOOLS AND FIX OUR HEALTH SYSTEM. YOU SAY THAT THERE'S NO SILVER BULLET TO FIX THE ECONOMY, BUT YOU'VE PUT FORWARD A FIVE-POINT PLAN TO FIX THE ECONOMY, A THREE-POINT PLAN TO FIX NEW ZEALAND. THESE ARE WILDLY SIMPLISTIC, AREN'T THEY? NO, THOSE ARE COMMUNICATION DEVICES TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE SAYING. BUT THEY'RE WILDLY SIMPLISTIC. WELL, AS YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYONE WATCHES A 10- TO 12-MINUTE INTERVIEW WITH YOU ON NEWSHUB NATION. PLENTY OF PEOPLE DO. A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST WATCH THE NEWS. PEOPLE GO TO THE WEBSITES. PEOPLE SEE THE THINGS ON SOCIAL MEDIA. THESE ARE AN ATTEMPT TO TRY AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, SO WHEN IT COMES TO OUR OVERALL CAMPAIGN PLAN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FIXING THE ECONOMY TO REDUCE THE COST OF LIVING, AND EVERYTHING HANGS ON THAT BECAUSE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT DRIVES EVERY OTHER SOCIAL OUTCOME IN NEW ZEALAND, AND THINGS LIKE FIXING LAW AND ORDER AND IMPROVING HEALTH AND EDUCATION ARE ONLY POSSIBLE WITH A STRONG ECONOMY, AND THAT'S WHAT NATIONAL'S FOCUSED ON. AND WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU AND WHAT I'M SEEING AND WHAT I'M PICKING UP ABOUT THIS CAMPAIGN IS THIS IDEA OF EVERYTHING'S BROKEN, WE'RE GONNA FIX IT. NOW, THAT WAS WILDLY SUCCESSFUL FOR WAYNE BROWN IN AUCKLAND. THAT SEEMS TO BE A CENTRAL DRIVER FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY NOW TOO. 'WE'RE GONNA FIX IT.' MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT THE COUNTRY IS HEADING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. JUST LOOK AT THE PUBLICLY PUBLISHED POLLS. MOST NEW ZEALANDERS THINK THAT. MANY NEW ZEALANDERS LOOK AT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY AND ARE VERY WORRIED AND ANXIOUS ABOUT IT. IT'S NOT JUST INFLATION, BUT IT'S LAW AND ORDER, IT'S THE HEALTH SYSTEM, EDUCATION... I'M TALKING ABOUT YOUR CAMPAIGN, STRATEGY OR PLATFORM TO FIX THINGS. THAT'S WHAT IT IS, ISN'T IT? OUR PLAN IS TO FIX THE ECONOMY, TO REDUCE THE COST OF LIVING AND GET THE COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK. LISTEN, I KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT A CENTRAL PLANK SO FAR ANYWAY, OF THE NATIONAL PARTY, BUT WHAT ABOUT INEQUALITY? WHAT ABOUT IT? HOW ARE YOU GONNA FIX THAT? WELL, EDUCATION IS THE GREAT EQUALISER IN NEW ZEALAND, AND SO THAT'S WHY OUR TEACHING THE BASICS BRILLIANT POLICY IS SO IMPORTANT. THAT'S LONG-TERM STUFF. WELL, NO, BUT— INEQUALITY EXISTS RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S GETTING WORSE FOR MANY PEOPLE. I WOULD POINT YOU TO TWO THINGS — ONE IS EDUCATION. YOU LOOK AT THOSE STATISTICS THAT CAME OUT EARLIER THIS YEAR OR LATER LAST YEAR. 2% OF KIDS AT THE AGE OF 15 IN A DECILE ONE SCHOOL IN AUCKLAND WERE ABLE TO PASS AT NCEA LEVEL ONE LITERACY AND NUMERACY. AND YOU KNOW THAT MANY PEOPLE SAY THAT THAT'S BECAUSE OF NATIONAL STANDARDS. WELL, ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY IT GOES BACK FURTHER THAN THAT. IT GOES BACK TO A 20- TO 30-YEAR EXPERIMENT WE'VE HAD ON CHILDREN IN THIS COUNTRY. WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THAT. WE'RE PROMOTING TEACHING THE BASICS BRILLIANTLY, A MUCH MORE PRESCRIPTIVE CURRICULUM, MUCH MORE RESOURCES FOR TEACHERS TO HELP TEACH THAT CURRICULUM... BUT THIS IS YOUR EDUCATION POLICY. A MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGE-BASED CURRICULUM. SO THAT'S ONE THING. THE OTHER THING I'D POINT YOU TO IS THE HOUSING MARKET, WHICH HAS BECOME COMPLETELY DYSFUNCTIONAL. I HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT IN MY PORTFOLIO, AND I AM ABSOLUTELY PASSIONATE ABOUT FIXING HOUSING IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE IT IS A MASSIVE DRIVER OF INEQUALITY. THAT'S WHY WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A PLANNING SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS MORE HOUSES TO BE BUILT, MAKES IT MORE AFFORDABLE FOR PEOPLE TO EXIST. WE'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT YOUR HOUSING POLICY. BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT YOUR EDUCATION POLICY AND YOUR HOUSING POLICY IS YOUR INEQUALITY POLICY. WELL, THOSE ARE TWO THINGS I WOULD POINT YOU TO. BUT WILL YOU HAVE A POLICY ABOUT HOW TO ADDRESS INEQUALITY THAT IS STANDALONE? WELL, AGAIN, THERE'S NO ONE SILVER BULLET TO ALL OF THESE THINGS. YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS IN THE ROUND. BUT YOU DO HAVE TO ISOLATE PROBLEMS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO FIX THEM. SURE. I'D POINT YOU TO EDUCATION AS THE GREAT EQUALISER. I'D POINT YOU TO HOUSING, WHICH IS THE BIG DRIVER OF THE— ALL THE ECONOMIC EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT. I'D ALSO POINT YOU TO OUR TAX CUT POLICY AS WELL. I'D POINT YOU TO OUR WIDER ECONOMIC GROWTH POLICIES TO MAKE NEW ZEALAND MORE AMBITIOUS, MAKE US MORE PROSPEROUS AND HELP ALL NEW ZEALANDERS GET AHEAD. BUT HOW DO YOU FIX THINGS LIKE CRIME, WHICH YOU SAY IS SO IMPORTANT TO NEW ZEALANDERS, WHICH WE KNOW IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO NEW ZEALANDERS IN FACT AT THE MOMENT, BUT HOW DO YOU FIX THINGS LIKE CRIME WITHOUT EVER REALLY ADDRESSING THINGS LIKE POVERTY AND INEQUALITY? THESE ARE MAJOR DRIVERS. YOU KNOW THAT. ABSOLUTELY, AND IT'S THAT OLD TONY BLAIR SAYING, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOT TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME AND TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME. AND SO WE ARE UNASHAMEDLY MAKING SURE THAT WE BACK THE POLICE— NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT CRIME. I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW DO YOU SOLVE CRIME WITHOUT ADDRESSING INEQUALITY AND POVERTY? YEAH, WELL, ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY WE'RE SO FOCUSED ON FIXING THE HOUSING MARKET, ON IMPROVING EDUCATION AND MAKING SURE THAT NEW ZEALANDERS HAVE MORE MONEY IN THEIR BACK POCKET TO ADDRESS THOSE ROOT DRIVERS. IS IT TRICKLE-DOWN? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRICKLE-DOWN? NO, IT'S NOT ABOUT TRICKLE-DOWN, BUT LABOUR'S TALKED A LOT ABOUT SOME OF THESE THINGS BUT HAS UTTERLY FAILED TO DELIVER. YES, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE SHOULD WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO FAIL TO DELIVER. THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE THE SITUATION. LET ME POINT YOU TO ONE EXAMPLE, WHICH IS— WHICH I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FROM MY TIME IN THE POLICE PORTFOLIO — THE TE ARA ORANGA PROGRAMME. IT'S AN ANTI-METH PROGRAMME IN NORTHLAND. THAT WAS STARTED UNDER NATIONAL. EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL. A COMMUNITY-DRIVEN INITIATIVE TO GET PEOPLE OFF METH IN THE COMMUNITY. THEY GO AFTER THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PEDDLING THE METH, BUT IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY ON METH, THEY WORK WITH LOCAL KUIA AND KAUMATUA AND THE COMMUNITY TO GET PEOPLE OFF IT AND HELP THEM STAY OFF IT. LABOUR PROMISED TO EXPAND THAT. THAT HAS NEVER BEEN EXPANDED BEYOND NORTHLAND. WE SHOULD BE INVESTING IN SENSIBLE, COMMUNITY-DRIVEN PROGRAMMES LIKE THAT THAT WORK. THE THING ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENT IS THEY'VE BEEN BIG ON THE RHETORIC, BIG ON THE TALK... VERY, VERY POOR AT THE DELIVERY. OK. SOMEBODY ELSE WHO IS BIG ON RHETORIC AND WHO'S BIG ON TALK IS DAVID SEYMOUR FROM THE ACT PARTY. THEY ARE SNAFFLING UP VOTES ON THE RIGHT, THOSE SORT OF LIBERTARIAN VOTES. THEY WERE OUT THERE— THEY WERE TRADITIONALLY WITH THE NATIONAL PARTY THINKING BACK QUITE A LONG TIME NOW. HOW DO YOU FIGHT THE CENTRE IN THIS CAMPAIGN AND ALSO SORT OF TRY AND REACH BACK INTO SOME OF THOSE POCKETS AND PULL THOSE PEOPLE BACK INTO THE NATIONAL PARTY? THAT'S QUITE A CONTORTION. WELL, LOOK, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S AN ELECTION. WE'RE GONNA PUT OUT OUR POLICIES. DAVID AND THE ACT PARTY ARE GONNA PUT OUT THEIR POLICIES, AND WE'VE JUST GOT TO FIGHT HARD FOR EVERY VOTE IN THE SAME WAY THAT LABOUR DOES WITH THE GREENS AS WELL. YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A MULTI-PARTY SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY. WE WELCOME THAT. OUR GOAL IS TO PROSECUTE OUR MESSAGE. OUR GOAL IS TO GET AROUND THE COUNTRY AND ENCOURAGE AS MANY PEOPLE TO PARTY VOTE FOR NATIONAL AS POSSIBLE WHEN WE ABSOLUTELY WANT AS HIGH A PERCENTAGE OF THE VOTE AS POSSIBLE. BUT IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR YOU? IF YOU'VE GOT A STRONG— YOU WANT A STRONG ACT PARTY, BUT YOU DON'T WANT THEM TOO STRONG, RIGHT? WELL, OUR GOAL IN THE NATIONAL PARTY IS TO GET AS MANY VOTES AS POSSIBLE, AND WE'VE JUST GOT TO GET OUT THERE AND SELL OUR MESSAGE AND GET AROUND THE COUNTRY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. WE'VE GOT 40 FANTASTIC NEW CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY THIS YEAR ALONGSIDE OUR HARD-WORKING TEAM ALREADY, AND SO THEY ARE IN EVERY POCKET OF NEW ZEALAND. THEY'RE IN EVERY COMMUNITY FROM KAITAIA IN THE NORTH TO INVERCARGILL ON THE SOUTH, AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY LOVING IT. WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF OUR REFRESHED TEAM, AND WE'RE GONNA GO OUT HARD AND CAMPAIGN FOR EVERY VOTE WE POSSIBLY CAN. IT'S GONNA BE A TOUGH ONE, ISN'T IT? IT'S GONNA BE A CLOSE ELECTION, BUT EVERY MMP ELECTION IS CLOSE, AND SO WE'RE JUST GONNA GO HARD. NATIONAL'S CAMPAIGN CHAIR CHRIS BISHOP THERE. INTERESTING TO HEAR HIM SAY KIWIS ARE OVER BIG ASPIRATIONAL POLITICAL VISION. COMING UP NEXT — A POLITICAL DEADLINE LOOMS FOR MAORI. HOW TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR YOU. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. THE 500,000 VOTERS WITH MAORI WHAKAPAPA HAVE UNTIL JULY 13 TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT TO VOTE ON THE GENERAL ELECTORAL ROLL OR THE MAORI ELECTORAL ROLL THIS ELECTION. IN THE LONG TERM, THEIR CHOICES WILL DETERMINE THE NUMBER OF MAORI ELECTORATES AND THE NUMBER OF MAORI SEATS IN PARLIAMENT. WHILE TE PATI MAORI HAS CALLED FOR ALL MAORI TO BE ON THE MAORI ROLL, PLENTY OF OTHERS SAY THE GENERAL ROLL SERVES THEIR NEEDS BETTER. SO HOW TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION? THIS WEEK, NEWSHUB NATION SPOKE TO TWO VOTERS — ONE ON THE MAORI ROLL, ONE ON THE GENERAL ROLL. AND BOTH HAVE RECENTLY SWAPPED ROLLS. KO TE WAKA TUWHENUA, TE MOEKAKARA, TAINUI ME TE ARAWA NGA WAKA. KO TE MANUKANUKA O HOTUROA TE MOANA. KO MAUNGAWHAU, MAUNGAKIEKIE, MATUKUTUREIA, MAHANIHANI, ME PUKETAPU NGA MAUNGA. KO TE WAIOHUA TE IWI. KO NGATI TE ATA TE HAPU. KO TAHUNA TE MARAE. KO KAO TOKU WHANAU. KO TOMMY DE SILVA AHAU. AT THE MOMENT WE'RE STANDING ON ONE OF THE MAUNGA OF MY IWI, MAUNGAWHAU. I WAS ON THE GENERAL ROLL FROM WHEN I FIRST SIGNED UP AT 18, AND THEN IN 2019 I GOT A LITTLE PAMPHLET WHICH WAS THE MAORI ELECTORAL ROLL LETTER, AND AT THE TIME, I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANT. I'VE ALWAYS— EVEN THOUGH WITH MY PAKEHA COMPLEXION, I'VE ALWAYS FELT STRONGLY AS A MAORI — YOU KNOW, BOTH A MAORI AND A PAKEHA, TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST. AND WHEN I GOT THIS LETTER, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT, AND SO I DIDN'T REALLY GIVE IT TOO MUCH THOUGHT. BUT WHEN THE LAW CHANGED, ALLOWING MAORI TO MORE EASILY CHANGE BETWEEN BOTH ROLLS, I TOOK THAT OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE FOR THE FIRST TIME. SINCE I LEFT HIGH SCHOOL IN 2018, I'VE BEEN ON A JOURNEY OF REDISCOVERING MY WHAKAPAPA MAORI, WORKING IN MAORI SPACES, LIVING WITH MAORI FROM TE TAIRAWHITI, WHICH IS ALWAYS A GOOD TIME. AND AS WELL AS THAT, SORT OF RECONNECTING WITH MY IWI. IT WAS A BIT OF A JOURNEY TO COME TO THAT POINT, BUT I GUESS THAT FEELING OF NOT FEELING MAORI ENOUGH — I ALWAYS WENT TO MAINSTREAM PAKEHA SCHOOLS AS WELL. WE DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVED HERE OR MY ANCESTORS HERE. AND YEAH, I GUESS BEING IN THOSE SORT OF SCHOOLS, I NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN TE REO MAORI AS WELL. THESE DAYS, THAT'S NOT THE PERSPECTIVE THAT I HAVE. I UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE ALL THE SAME. MAORI ARE MAORI, AND THERE'S NO, AS I SAID, BLOOD LEVEL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT CAN TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE MAORI ENOUGH. BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY A JOURNEY TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION. A LOT OF THE TIME, MAORI DON'T QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE MAORI. A LOT OF THE TIME IT'S THE PAKEHA THAT CAN SORT OF LOOK AT YOU AND SAY, 'WHY ARE YOU EXPLAINING THAT YOU'RE MAORI? 'WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THESE THINGS EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE GOT 'A PAKEHA COMPLEXION AND YOU LOOK LIKE ME?' SO I GUESS FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT DO LOOK LIKE ME, THAT'S DEFINITELY A BARRIER. NOW THAT I'M SIGNED UP TO THE MAORI ROLL, I'M IN THE ELECTORATE OF TAMAKI MAKAURAU, WHEREAS IF I WAS TO STAY ON THE GENERAL ROLL, AT THE MOMENT WHERE I'M LIVING, I WOULD BE IN THE EPSOM ELECTORATE. AND THE EPSOM ELECTORATE IS A VERY SAFE SEAT FOR DAVID SEYMOUR TO SAY THE LEAST. BUT IN THE AUCKLAND MAORI ELECTORATE, TAMAKI MAKAURAU, WHICH MINISTER PEENI HENARE IS THE MP FOR, IT'S A LOT MORE OF A COMPETITIVE ELECTORATE FOR ME PERSONALLY. SO LAST ELECTION, HE BEAT JOHN TAMIHERE FOR TE PARTY MAORI BY ONLY 900 VOTES, I BELIEVE. SO FOR ME, IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO, I GUESS, HAVE MY VOTE COUNT MORE. I THINK THE ULTIMATE DECISION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE MAORI AND THE GENERAL ROLLS, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT SORT OF RETROSPECTIVE LOOK INTO YOURSELF AND TALK WITH CLOSE PEOPLE AROUND YOU AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ROLL IS BEST FOR YOU AND WHAT MIGHT SUIT YOU. KIA ORA TATOU. KO TERATA AHAU. NO NGATI WHATUA, NO NGAPUHI, NO NGAITAI, NGATI MARU. SO I'M OF NGATI WHATUA, NGAPUHI, NGAITAI AND NGATI MARU DESCENT LIVING HERE IN THE AUCKLAND REGION. MY NAME IS TERATA. I'VE BEEN ON THE MAORI ROLL SINCE ABOUT 2006. I GREW UP MAORI IN KOHANGA REO, IN MAORI SETTINGS, KORERO MAORI AND ALL OF THAT. AND IT WAS— IT FELT NATURAL. YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT LINKS TO HAURAKI WAIKATO AND TO TAI TOKERAU, IT WAS JUST LIKE, OH, IT WAS JUST NATURAL FOR ME TO BE ON THE MAORI ROLL. SO THIS ELECTORAL OPTION FOR EVERYONE THAT WENT ON TO THE MAORI ROLL, SO ABOUT 5000 OR SO, THERE WAS JUST AS MANY PEOPLE THAT CAME ON TO THE GENERAL FROM MAORI, AND I'M ONE OF THOSE. I'M GETTING OLDER NOW, AND I'M BROADENING MY HORIZONS. AND 15 YEARS IN THE MAORI ELECTORATES, THE MAORI SEATS, THE KAUPAPA IS VERY FOCUSSED ON KAUPAPA MAORI AND KAUPAPA... MAORI PEOPLE, MAORI ISSUES. AND I'M NOT JUST MAORI. AND I DON'T JUST LIVE IN A REGION, RIGHT? THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT MAORI SEATS IS THEY COVER THESE BIG, MASSIVE AREAS. TO BE HONEST, I FEEL CONNECTED TO MY NEIGHBOURHOOD. I FEEL CONNECTED TO THE STREETS THAT I WALK AROUND, THE PLACES THAT I WORK, TO THOSE WHANAUS IN MY NEIGHBOURHOOD AND IN MY LOCAL AREA. YES, I AM AN URI — HE URI NO TE TAI TOKERAU, NE URI NO HAURAKAI-WAIKATO, BUT I'M BEACH HAVEN. I'M BIRKDALE. I'M BROADLY THE NORTH SHORE, BUT BEACH HAVEN-BIRKDALE. SO THERE ISN'T AN MP FOR BEACH HAVEN-BIRKDALE; THERE'S AN MP FOR NORTHCOTE, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS STILL MORE OF OUR OWN AREA, OUR OWN HOOD, OUR OWN NEIGHBOURHOOD. AND THE SAME THING FOR OUR WHANAU. THEY'RE NOT TAMAKI MAKAURAU WHANUI. THEY LIVE IN MANUREWA; THEY LIVE IN CLENDON. SAME KIND OF THING. AND IT'S MUCH EASIER TO ACCESS A MANUREWA MP. SO NOT THE PARTIES, BUT WHO WE CAN VOTE FOR IS A LOT MORE LIMITED COMPARED TO THE GENERAL. SO ON THE GENERAL ROLL, ALL PARTIES, ALL PARTIES STAND CANDIDATES. ON THE MAORI ROLL, NOT AS MUCH. AND SO WE DON'T HAVE AS WIDER A CHOICE. AND MAORI TATOU A KORE NOHO MATUI A MATAU KI A MATAU NAHENAHE. WE DON'T JUST LIVE IN MAORI THINGS. WE SUFFER THE SAME HEALTH STUFF AS EVERYBODY ELSE. WE GO TO THE SAME SCHOOLS AS EVERYBODY ELSE. WHAT ELECTORAL ROLL THAT I'M ON DIDN'T CHANGE MY MAORI BLOOD, DIDN'T CHANGE MY MAORI GENEALOGY, DIDN'T CHANGE MY MAORI LANGUAGE, DIDN'T CHANGE MY MAORI FAMILY. NONE OF THAT CHANGED. WHAT'S CHANGED IS MY ABILITY TO CHOOSE MORE WIDELY WHO I CAN POTENTIALLY VOTE FOR. THE BIGGEST, MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ME IS THAT PEOPLE ENGAGE THE MAORI ELECTORAL OPTION. VOTE, CHOOSE. ARE YOU GOING TO STAY ON THE MAORI ROLL? ARE YOU GOING TO GO TO THE GENERAL? ARE YOU GOING TO STAY ON THE GENERAL? WHATEVER. BUT PLEASE DO IT AND PLEASE VOTE. THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. KO TO REO, KO TO POTI. KO TO POTI, KO TO REO. YOU VOICE, YOUR VOTE. YOUR VOTE, YOUR VOICE. TWO QUITE DIFFERENT PATHS THERE. I'M JOINED NOW BY DR RAWIRI TAONUI WHO IS A RETIRED LECTURER IN INDIGENOUS STUDIES, WHO OVER THE YEARS HAS WORKED AT AUT, MASSEY, CANTERBURY AND AUCKLAND UNIVERSITIES. TENA KOE. JUST TWO AND A HALF WEEKS LEFT FOR MAORI VOTERS TO SWAP ROLLS. ARE THE ISSUES TERATA AND TOMMY OUTLINED UNUSUAL OR COMMON? I THINK THEY ARE QUITE COMMON. YOU TEND TO SEE TWO THINGS WHEN IT COMES TO THE OPTION. YOU HAVE LIKE THE FIRST YOUNG MAN, THINKING ABOUT KAUPAPA, IS LOOKING AT HIS BROADER PLACE CULTURALLY AND POLITICALLY AND SO IS GOING TO THE MAORI ROLL. MORE RECENTLY WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE LIKE THE SECOND YOUNG MAN WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT THEIR LOCAL CONTEXT LIKE WHAT THE CONNECTION WITH THEIR LOCAL MP AND COMMUNITY. THAT IS PROBABLY HAPPENING ALONGSIDE THE RISE OF MAORI AND LOCAL BODY POLITICS AS WELL. THAT'S INTERESTING. ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK TOMMY RAISED, HE HAD TO GET OVER THIS SENSE OF WHETHER YOU ARE MAORI ENOUGH. IS THAT AN ISSUE? I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOUNGER VOTERS THINK ABOUT A LOT. IF YOU HAVE WHAKAPAPA AND YOU HAVE A VOTE, WHAT YOU DO IS YOUR OWN CHOICE. I THINK PEOPLE ACCEPT THAT. FIGURES OUT ON FRIDAY SO THAT 11,000 MAORI HAVE SWITCHED ROLLS. 900 MORE HAVE MOVED TO MAORI ROLL THAN TO THE GENERAL ROLL. WHAT YOU TAKE FROM THAT? WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS ABOUT 54% OF TRANSFERS ARE GOING TO THE MAORI ROLL AND 46% ARE GOING TO THE GENERAL ROLL. IN 2018, IN THE TRANSFERS, A LARGE NUMBER WENT TO THE GENERAL ROLL AND SOME PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT THIS IS THE END OF THE MAORI SEATS. BUT WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE TELLING US IS THAT THIS IS A RETURN TO THE FIRST FOUR MAORI OPTIONS, WHERE THREE TO FOUR TIMES' AS MANY PEOPLE WERE GOING TO THE MAORI ROLL AS OPPOSED TO GOING THE OTHER WAY. YOU TALKED ABOUT A DIP THERE IN REPRESENTATION ON THE MAORI ROLL. WHAT WAS DRIVING THAT AT THE TIME? I THINK IT WASN'T A REJECTION OF THE MAORI ROLL. IT WAS A REACTION TO THE DECLINING MAORI PARTY-NATIONAL PARTY ARRANGEMENT. SO IT WAS DISSATISFACTION FROM THAT. YES, AND I THINK IT IS SWINGING BACK THE OTHER WAY NOW. YOU CONDUCTED A REVIEW FOR THE MAORI PARTY AFTER THE LAST ELECTION IN TERMS OF HOW THE VOTE PLAYED OUT. WHAT DID YOU FIND? SOME INTERESTING THINGS. MMP PLUS THE OPTION HAS LED TO A REVOLUTION IN MAORI VOTING. MAORI VOTING NOW IS, IN TERMS OF PARTICIPATION, ON AVERAGE IS 10% TO 15% HIGHER IN TERMS OF VOTER TURNOUT COMPARED TO GOING BACK TO 1990. SO IT HAS INCREASED PARTICIPATION. INCREASED PARTICIPATION. IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO BE THE MOST STRATEGIC YOU CAN WITH YOUR VOTE, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FOR MAORI? TO VOTE FOR STRONG MAORI CANDIDATES. ANOTHER CONTRAST THAT HAS HAPPENED IS IF YOU LOOK AT VOTING AGE COHORTS, THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF VOTES IN THE PAKEHA COMMUNITY ARE CAST BY PAKEHA 70 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER. THE LAST TWO ELECTIONS, THE LARGEST VOTING COHORT FOR MAORI ARE AGED 18 TO 34, AND THAT IS IN THE LAST TWO ELECTIONS. THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THAT IS YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE NEED KAUPAPA MAORI, WE NEED TO ADVANCE MAORI PEOPLE, BUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE I INTERVIEWED FOR THE MAORI PARTY REVIEW SAID THAT THEY WANT LEADERS TO ADVANCE KAUPAPA MAORI BUT ALSO ADVANCE AN AGENDA FOR THE BENEFIT OF AOTEAROA KATOA. A BROADER PERSPECTIVE. IF THE NUMBER OF MAORI ENROLLED CONTINUES TO INCREASE, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INCREASE IN THE YOUNGER COHORT GETTING INVOLVED, WHAT'S THAT GOING TO MEAN IN THE FUTURE FOR THE NUMBER OF MAORI ELECTORATES? WELL, I DON'T THINK WE WILL GET AN EXTRA ELECTORATE THIS TIME. BUT I THINK WE ARE SEEING A NEW TREND, PARTICULARLY WITH THOSE YOUNGER VOTERS. SO ANOTHER ELEMENT IN THE OPTION — THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO ARE REGISTERING AS NEW VOTERS. WHAT WE WILL SEE AT THE END OF THE OPTION IS AN INCREASE IN THE MAORI ROLL AND POSSIBLY A DECLINE IN THE NUMBER OF MAORI ON THE GENERAL ROLL, AND THAT HARKENS BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED THE LATE 1990S AND EARLY 2000S. AND GOING FORWARDS, SAY IN '26 FURTHER OUT, WE MIGHT SEE AN ADDITIONAL MAORI ELECTORATE DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE ROLL. IS THAT POSSIBLE? YES. I THINK WHAT WE WILL SEE IS A YOUNGER GENERATION OF MAORI POLITICIANS CAPABLE. DEADLINE IS LOOMING. SWITCH IS ALMOST OVER. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE MAORI WHO ARE CONSIDERING THEIR POSITION? I WOULD SAY TO MAORI TO PARTICIPATE, CHOOSE WHERE YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR VOTE AND SUPPORT PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO ADVANCE KAUPAPA MAORI BUT ALSO ADVANCE A KAUPAPA THAT IS ABOUT ALL OF AOTEAROA. FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY. TENA KOE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. NGA MIHI. THANK YOU, SIMON. A MURI AKE NEI — COMING UP — OUR POLITICAL PANEL — TE URUROA FLAVELL, CARMEN PARAHI AND LIAM HEHIR. PLUS, OUR FIRST INTERVIEW WITH NEW MINISTER JO LUXTON CLEANING UP WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE JEWEL IN THE CROWN OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUDGET. HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE JEWEL IN THE CROWN OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUDGET — 20 FREE HOURS OF CHILDCARE FOR 2-YEAR-OLDS. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? WELL, JUST OVER A MONTH LATER, WE HAVE A REBELLING EARLY CHILDHOOD SECTOR, BEWILDERED FAMILIES, AND A BRAND NEW ASSOCIATE EDUCATION MINISTER WORKING DOUBLE-TIME TO SORT IT OUT. I BEGAN BY ASKING JO LUXTON HOW A GOOD NEWS STORY BECAME A STUFF-UP. ABSOLUTELY NOT. I AM VERY PROUD OF THIS POLICY BECAUSE WHAT WE WANTED TO ACHIEVE WITH THIS POLICY IS TO EASE THE COST OF LIVING PRESSURES ON FAMILIES RIGHT NOW, AND WE WILL ACHIEVE THAT THROUGH THIS POLICY. BUT YOU'VE HAD TO BACK DOWN ON ONE OF THE MAJOR CONDITIONS AFTER 90% OF THE SECTOR CAME TO YOU AND SORT OF SAID IT'S NOT WORKABLE. THAT IS A BACKDOWN. THERE'S A STUFF-UP. I DON'T THINK IT'S A BACKDOWN. I THINK IT'S A TWEAK TO A POLICY PROPOSAL. WE ALWAYS KNEW THAT THE SECTOR WOULD WANT TO GIVE US FEEDBACK. THAT'S WHY IT WASN'T GOING TO BE FINALISED, THE WORDING WASN'T GOING TO BE FINALISED TILL JULY. WE'VE LISTENED TO THE SECTOR, AND WE'VE SUPPORTED THE ISSUE THAT THEY RAISED. THE STICKY ISSUE FOR THEM WAS FAMILIES ONLY BEING ABLE TO ENROL FOR THE 20 HOURS IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO. WE'VE LISTENED TO THEM, AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE CHANGED THAT. BUT THEY SAY YOU'RE NOT REALLY CONSULTING WITH THEM. THERE WAS NO CONSULTATION PRIOR TO THE BUDGET ANNOUNCEMENT, ONE MEETING POST-BUDGET, AND SOME REGULAR MEETINGS AFTER THAT. THAT'S NOT CONSULTATION IN THEIR VIEW. SO, BUDGET POLICY AND BUDGET ANNOUNCEMENTS ARE ALWAYS CONFIDENTIAL, AND THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY REGARDLESS OF WHICH SECTOR THAT THEY MIGHT INTERSECT WITH. SURE. BUT SURELY THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IS LIAISING WITH THE SECTOR AND KNOWS WHAT THE ISSUES ARE. AND YOU'VE HAD A 20 HOURS FREE SUBSIDY FOR 3- AND 4-YEAR-OLDS. YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW IT WORKS, AND YET YOU CHANGED IT. THE PURPOSE OF THIS POLICY WAS TO EASE COST OF LIVING PRESSURES ON FAMILIES, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE EARLY CHILDHOOD COST THAT FAMILIES FACE ARE HUGE. WE HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE EARLY CHILDHOOD FEES, AND WE'RE ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. AND WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT PARENTS ARE PAYING HUGE AMOUNTS IN THEIR EARLY CHILDHOOD FEES, AND WE WANTED TO EASE THE COST OF LIVING PRESSURES ON THEM. WE DON'T WANT TO SEE CENTRES GO UNDER, WHICH IS WHY WE'VE TWEAKED THAT — THE PART THAT THEY FELT WAS THE REAL STICKY ISSUE, THE 20 HOURS ENROLMENT ONLY. HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS POLICY 20 HOURS FREE? MOST CENTRES HAVE TO TOP IT UP AND CHARGE OPTIONAL EXTRAS. IT'S NOT FREE FOR THE PARENTS. IT SHOULD BE FREE. THERE SHOULD BE NO CHARGES FOR PARENTS FOR THE 20 HOURS ITSELF. CENTRES CAN CERTAINLY ASK FOR OPTIONAL CHARGES, AND CENTRES CAN CERTAINLY CHARGE OUT FEES FOR OTHER HOURS IN WHICHEVER WAY THEY WISH. BUT THE SECTOR SAYS IT'S NOT WORKABLE. THAT'S WHY THEY WENT TO YOU IS THAT JUST CHARGING FOR THE 20 HOURS AT THE GOVERNMENT RATE IS NOT WORKABLE. IT DOESN'T PAY FOR EVERYTHING. IT HAS BEEN WORKING— SO YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S FREE. YOU SHOULD SAY IT'S JUST A SUBSIDY. IT HAS BEEN WORKING FOR THE 3- TO 5-YEAR-OLDS SINCE 2007, I THINK, THAT WE BOUGHT THIS POLICY INITIALLY. IT HAS BEEN WORKING. THIS IS SIMPLY AN EXTENSION OF IT. THE ISSUE THEY RAISED WITH US WAS THE 20 HOURS ENROLMENT ONLY. WE LISTENED TO THEM BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT WAS THE STICKY POINT. AND YET YOU'RE GETTING HEADLINES SAYING POLICY IS STILL CLEAR AS MUD FROM THE SECTOR ITSELF. AND THE SUBSIDY ITSELF THAT YOU'RE OFFERING IS ONE TEACHER TO LOOK AFTER 10 TWO 2-YEAR-OLDS. THEY SAY THAT'S WHAT IT COVERS. IS THAT THE RIGHT LEVEL OF CARE? THAT IS THE CURRENT RATIO AS IT STANDS AT THE MOMENT, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT. IT IS IN OUR EARLY LEARNING ACTION PLAN TO ADDRESS RATIOS IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT IS STILL ON THE AGENDA. THIS POLICY WAS THE 20 HOURS ACCESS FOR FAMILIES TO EASE THE COST OF PRESSURES ON THEM AT THE MOMENT. YOU ARE A PREVIOUS CHILDCARE CENTRE OWNER AND RUNNER, AND YOU SAID THAT YOU MANAGED TO DO THAT AND NOT CHARGE ON TOP OF IT. ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THERE IS PROFITEERING OUT THERE IN THE SECTOR? THERE ARE OVER 4000 CENTRES OUT THERE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SEVERAL THOUSAND DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODELS, AND IT'S UP TO EACH CENTRE HOW THEY CHOOSE TO OPERATE THEIR BUSINESS. THE BUSINESS MODEL THAT WE USED, WE DIDN'T CHARGE ADDITIONAL CHARGES. PARENTS COULD ENROL FOR 20 HOURS IF THEY WISHED TO. SO... BUT THAT WAS A WHILE AGO, WASN'T IT? YEAH. AND COSTS HAVE RISEN DRAMATICALLY SINCE THEN. YEAH. SO WE SOLD OUR CENTRE IN 2019. SO IT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO. YES. OK. BUT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT COSTS HAVE RISEN DRAMATICALLY, AND YET YOU STILL SAY THAT THE 20 HOURS SHOULD BE FREE. COSTS HAVE RISEN, YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THAT. BUT SO HAS THE FUNDING THAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS PUT INTO THE SECTOR. WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF CARE THAT 2-YEAR-OLD TAMARIKI SHOULD RECEIVE IN A CHILDCARE CENTRE? WELL, CURRENTLY WE KNOW WHAT THE MINIMUM RATIOS ARE, AND WE AGREE THAT WE WANT TO WORK TOWARDS BETTER RATIOS, AND THAT IS PART OF THE EARLY LEARNING ACTION PLAN GOING FORWARD. AS THE FUNDING SETS RIGHT NOW, ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT TAMARIKI ARE GETTING THE CARE LEVELS, THE RATIO— TEACHER-RATIO LEVELS THAT THEY DESERVE? I AM CONFIDENT THAT CENTRES ARE STAFFING THEIR CENTRES TO THE ABILITIES AND THE BEST PRACTICE THAT THEY SEE AS THEY CAN DO IN THEIR OWN CENTRES. AND 2-YEAR-OLDS UNDER THIS SUBSIDY ARE GOING TO GET THE RIGHT LEVEL OF CARE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ONE TEACHER TO 10? THAT'S THE RATIO THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE NOW. AS I SAID BEFORE, IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT AND WE WANT TO WORK TO IMPROVE, AND THAT IS IN OUR EARLY LEARNING ACTION PLAN, AND WE ARE GOING TO WORK TO ADDRESS THAT. YOU'RE A NEW MINISTER. DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU'VE BEEN LUMPED WITH AN UNWORKABLE POLICY? NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS UNWORKABLE AT ALL. I THINK THIS IS A FANTASTIC POLICY BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO REDUCE BARRIERS TO EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, AND IT IS GOING TO EASE THE COST OF PRESSURES ON FAMILIES. OK, MINISTER, I JUST WANTED TO MOVE ON TO THE SWITCH TO THE MAORI ROLL THAT'S BEING OFFERED AT THE MOMENT FOR MAORI. THEY'VE GOT LESS THAN THREE WEEKS TO DECIDE. YOU ARE MAORI, BUT YOU REPRESENT A GENERAL ELECTORATE. DOES THIS MAKE YOU SORT OF FEEL CAUGHT BETWEEN TWO WORLDS? I MEAN YOU ARE PART OF THE MAORI CAUCUS AS WELL. I AM PART OF THE MAORI CAUCUS. THIS DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL CAUGHT BETWEEN TWO WORLDS AS SUCH. I AM ON A JOURNEY, AND I'VE BEEN ON A JOURNEY FOR A FEW YEARS NOW TRYING TO TRACE MY WHAKAPAPA. IT IS A JOURNEY. IT HAS TAKEN A WHILE, AND IT DOES— THE REASON I WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THAT JOURNEY IS BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE I FIT IN, WHERE MY PLACE IS, AND IT'S NOT UNLIKE MANY NEW ZEALANDERS WHO ARE IN THIS POSITION, YOU KNOW, WHO HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP PAKEHA IN A PAKEHA WORLD AND NOT EXPOSED TO THEIR MAORI WHAKAPAPA SIDE. AND IT'S A JOURNEY THAT I'M ON, AND I'M ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOYING IT. IN FUTURE, WOULD YOU CONSIDER SWITCHING ROLLS? BECAUSE YOU'RE ON THE GENERAL ROLL NOW. NO, I'M ON THE MAORI ROLL. OH, YOU'RE ON THE MAORI ROLL. YES, I AM. ARE YOU? OK. YES. BUT YOU'RE STANDING IN RANGITATA? IN A GENERAL SEAT, YES. IN A GENERAL SEAT? YEAH. OK, SO YOU CAN VOTE ON THE MAORI ROLL, BUT YOU'RE STANDING FOR LABOUR IN THE GENERAL SEAT. DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BE ON THE GENERAL ROLE? WELL, THAT'S A DECISION THAT I MADE, A PERSONAL CHOICE TO ME. I THINK IT'S UP TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO CHOOSE WHICHEVER ROLL THEY WISH TO BE ON. IT'S NOT FOR ME TO SUGGEST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT IT'S A DECISION THAT I MADE. AND WHY DID YOU SWITCH? I MADE THAT DECISION BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE WORK THAT OUR CURRENT MP RINO TIRIKATENE DOES IN HELPING TO REDUCE THE INEQUITIES THAT MAORI FACE IN SO MANY PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY. JO LUXTON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. E WHAI AKE NEI — COMING UP — OUR POLITICAL PANEL REFLECTS ON SOME OF LIFE'S MYSTERIES — LIKE MICHAEL WOOD'S INVESTMENT CHOICES AND NATIONAL RUNNING IN THE MAORI SEATS. PLUS, THEY MIGHT HAVE LOST THEIR MINISTER, BUT OUR MIGRANTS STILL NEED ANSWERS. WE MEET TWO OF THEM. HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. WELL, OUR MIGRANTS ARE FACING LENGTHY DELAYS AND RISING COSTS. THEY SAY THE PROCESS IS SO SLOW AND EXPENSIVE, WE ARE LOSING WORKERS WHO ARE READY, WILLING AND ABLE TO FILL CRITICAL SKILL SHORTAGES. NEWSHUB NATION SPOKE WITH TWO SUCH MIGRANTS, NOEL BALLANTYNE AND KASTURI NADARAJAH, TO HEAR THEIR STORIES. I DECIDED TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND BACK IN 2018 AS A TRUCK DRIVER. THE REASON I WANTED TO BE HERE IS BECAUSE IT WAS A CHILDHOOD DREAM FOR ME. I'VE GOT NOWHERE WITHIN FIVE YEARS, AND I'VE ACHIEVED NOTHING. I'M BACK AT SQUARE ONE AGAIN. NOEL'S RESIDENCY VISA WAS SO DELAYED HE HAD TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY TO AVOID ILLEGALLY OVERSTAYING. WHEN HE RETURNED, HE HAD TO START OVER. THEY ACTUALLY TOLD ME THAT I'D NEED TO APPLY FOR ANOTHER VISA TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY TO APPLY FOR THE WHOLE RESIDENCY VISA AGAIN AND TO PAY ANOTHER $2500. EVEN THOUGH THAT I HAD A FULLY LODGED APPLICATION WITH THEM. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. THERE WAS A SKILLS SHORTAGE, AND WE WERE JUST IGNORED. I COMPLIED WITH ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THREE YEARS WHILE BEING IN NEW ZEALAND, BUT WHILE INZ HAD CHANGED THE GOALPOSTS SO MANY TIMES, I'M NOT PREPARED TO PAY THOUSANDS MORE FOR SOMETHING THAT I SHOULD HAVE HAD BACK IN 2021. MEANWHILE, KAS, A VET WITH SEVEN YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, SAYS THE PROCESS FOR HER TO BE ABLE TO PRACTISE IS FAR TOO COMPLEX AND COSTLY. AT SOME POINT, I DID THOUGHT OF GIVING UP BECAUSE IT WAS SO HARD. IT TOOK ME ALMOST EIGHT MONTHS TO GET HERE. PRIOR TO GETTING THE VISA, I NEED TO GET MYSELF REGISTERED WITH THE COUNCIL, AND FOR THAT, I NEED TO SIT FOR AN EXAMINATION. THEN I GET REGISTERED AS LIMITED REGISTERED VETERINARIAN, AND FROM THERE, I CAN THEN APPLY FOR A JOB. BUT THE WHOLE PROCESS IN TERMS OF MONETARY, IN TERMS OF TIME... I HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB FIRST BEFORE COMING DOWN HERE, WHICH MEANS EIGHT MONTHS OF UNEMPLOYMENT. I'VE KNOWN SO MANY FAMILIES THAT'S COME OUT HERE, THAT'S GIVEN UP EVERYTHING, THAT'S COST THEM TENS OF THOUSANDS TO GET HERE. THE WAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TREATED — NOW, IT'S ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL. LIKE, YOU KNOW? IF YOU KNEW HOW HARD IT WAS GOING TO BE TO GET HERE AND DO THIS, WOULD YOU HAVE MADE THE SAME DECISION? NO. IF I KNEW WAY AHEAD, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE, BECAUSE IT'S A LOT OF MONEY, A LOT OF TIME WASTED, EIGHT MONTHS OF UNEMPLOYMENT. ON TOP OF THAT, I WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE YEAR TILL I GET MY FULL REGISTRATION. THAT'S TOO MUCH TIME WASTED. I WISH THAT THE COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ACCEPTING, LIKE, THE PROCESS ITSELF. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE, OH, I LOVE THEM. (LAUGHS) WELL, WE DID HAVE MICHAEL WOOD BOOKED TO RESPOND TO NOEL AND KAS TODAY, BUT HE, AS YOU KNOW, RESIGNED, AND SOON-TO-BE IMMIGRATION MINISTER ANDREW LITTLE HAS RECEIVED HIS WARRANT BUT HASN'T YET BEEN BRIEFED. SO TO FILL IN THE GAPS, JOINING ME NOW IS OUR POLITICAL PANEL — TE PATI MAORI MEMBER AND FORMER CO-LEADER TE URUROA FLAVELL, STUFF'S POU TIAKI MATUA AND EXECUTIVE LEADER CARMEN PARAHI, AND MANAWATU BARRISTER-SOLICITOR LIAM HEHIR, WHO IS ALSO A NATIONAL PARTY MEMBER. TENA KOUTOU. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. BIT OF LITTLE FRUSTRATION THERE FOR THE MIGRANTS. MICHAEL WOOD IMPLODES AND RESIGNS. TE URUROA, IT'S A BIT OF A MESS FOR LABOUR. YEAH, AT THE MOMENT, IT IS. A NUMBER OF FORMER MINISTERS SEEM TO HAVE LOST THEIR WAY. MICHAEL WOOD HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. HE CAME IN DEFINITELY LOOKING TO HIGHER HONOURS, I'M SURE, TARGETED AND TALKED UP AS BEING A POSSIBLE CANDIDATE FOR PRIME MINISTER, AND FOR HIM TO NOT CHECK IN ON THOSE ISSUES RAISED BY HIS OFFICE AND OTHER COLLEAGUES, I THINK, BAD JUDGEMENT. 16 TIMES, LIAM. THAT'S JUST MANNA FROM HEAVEN FOR NATIONAL, ISN'T IT? ON A HUMAN LEVEL, I'VE GOT A LOT OF SYMPATHY FOR MICHAEL WOOD. YOU HAVE TROUBLE WITH LIFE ADMIN? YEAH. WHO AMONG US WHO HAS AN ADULT, BUSY LIFE DOESN'T HAVE A LIST OF FIVE-MINUTE JOBS THAT HAVE TAKEN AN EMBARRASSINGLY LONG TIME TO GET TO. HAVING SAID THAT, WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT OUT, YOU ARE CAUGHT OUT. ARE YOU A CABINET MINISTER? NO, EXACTLY. THAT'S RIGHT. THE THING WITH THE IMMIGRATION PORTFOLIO IN PARTICULAR — THIS IS A ROLE WHERE YOU HAVE QUITE A BIT OF MINISTERIAL DECISION-MAKING THAT AFFECTS INDIVIDUALS. THE MINISTER'S GOING TO MAKE CALLS ON INDIVIDUAL CASES FROM TIME TO TIME. THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN THE LURCH. THEY ARE WAITING FOR THEIR NEW MINISTER TO GET UP TO SPEED. THEY ARE IN PURGATORY. YOU'VE GOT TO FEEL FOR THEM. THAT IS THE HUMAN WRECKAGE THAT HAPPENS. CARMEN, IN TERMS OF LABOUR, THOUGH, ANDREW LITTLE IS THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER, DEFENCE MINISTER, INTELLIGENCE MINISTER... HE'S BEING STRETCHED REALLY THIN NOW. HE IS, BUT HE WOULD SAY HE CAN HANDLE ALL OF IT. ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IS THAT AT THE LAST ELECTION, NATIONAL WAS IMPLODING BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHO WAS GOING TO LEAD THEIR PARTY. THIS TIME IT'S LABOUR LOSING ALL THEIR MINISTERS — GOOD, STRONG MPS. IT'S HARD FOR THEM, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S AS HARD AS IT WAS FOR NATIONAL AND WHY THEY LOST SO MANY VOTES IN THEIR ELECTORATES. THE OTHER REASON IS OF COURSE BEING ARDERN KEPT US SAFE DURING THAT TIME. IT ALL TURNED ON HER THE FOLLOWING YEAR. NOW NATIONAL HAS TO TRY AND PULL BACK ALL THOSE ELECTORATE SEATS THAT THEY LOST TO LABOUR WHICH THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE. AND WE ALSO HAD THE HISTORICAL ELECTION. LET'S JUMP INTO NATIONAL'S CAMPAIGN. PERFECT SEGUE. LIAM, NATIONAL DOES HAVE TO PULL BACK ALL THOSE SEATS THEY LOST IN RED WAVE. ARE THEY GOING TO DO THAT? THEY WILL WIN BACK A LOT OF THEM BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOT AT THE LOW EBB ANY MORE. THERE'S A LOT OF LOW-HANGING FRUIT FOR NATIONAL TO PICK UP. THEY WILL PICK UP A LOT OF THOSE SEATS BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT WILL BE POLLING NOT AT 24 BUT IN THE MID-30S. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING STRETCHED IN OPPOSITION AND STRETCHED WHEN YOU'RE IN GOVERNMENT. NATIONAL LOST A LOT OF THOSE MIDDLE MPS IN THE LAST ELECTION, BUT IT ALSO DIDN'T HAVE TO STAFF THE MINISTRIES. IT DIDN'T HAVE TO WATCH ALL THESE THINGS. THE PROBLEM WITH LABOUR IS THAT IT DOES HAVE A PRETTY SHALLOW BENCH. YOU DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF WAYNE MAPP TYPES OR CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSONS WHO YOU CAN GOT TO AS THOSE UTILITY PLAYERS, WHO YOU CAN JUST FILL THOSE ROLES WITH, AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE ANDREW LITTLE — OR BEFORE THAT, CHRIS HIPKINS — TAKING ON A LOT. I WANT TO TALK A BIT MORE ABOUT NATIONAL. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INEQUITY AND INEQUALITY WITH CHRIS BISHOP. I LOVED THE SILENCE HE GAVE WHEN SHE ASKED HIM ABOUT INEQUALITY. WE ALL LAUGHED BECAUSE HE HAD NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. IF I TAKE ON NATIONAL'S ROLE HERE, THEY'RE SAYING, TE URUROA, THAT HOUSING AND EDUCATION ARE THE WAYS AND DRIVERS TO FILL THAT, TO ADDRESS THAT KIND OF GAP. OF COURSE IT IS, BUT THERE ARE UMPTEEN OTHER THINGS, AND ACTUALLY, WHAT MAORI PEOPLE MOST LOOK AT IS, 'I'VE GOT TO PAY SOME BILLS, MY MORTGAGE. 'I JUST GOT TO GET BREAD AND BUTTER ON MY TABLE.' YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ALL THOSE THINGS BUT NOT MAKE THE LINK BETWEEN EDUCATION AND FAMILIES HAVING TO PAY DEBT, MORTGAGE, FOR KAI. WE HAVE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE SUFFERING AT THE HARD EDGE OF POVERTY, AND NOBODY IS COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES. SO YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING THERE THAT YOU BELIEVE WOULD ADDRESS—? YOU WOULD NATURALLY GO TO EDUCATION. I'M IN EDUCATION, SO, OF COURSE, I'D GO TO EDUCATION. OF COURSE, HOUSING IS AN ISSUE AT THE FRONT OF EVERYBODY'S MIND. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY AND INEQUITY, YOU HAVE TO DRILL DOWN AND SAY, 'WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY HURTING RIGHT NOW?' THEY'RE USUALLY MAORI COMMUNITIES. NOT ALWAYS, BUT DEFINITELY MAORI COMMUNITIES OR MAORI IN COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SUFFERING, AND THEY CAN'T MAKE THE CONNECT. THEY'RE NOT MAKING THE CONNECT. LIAM, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT? WOULD YOU SAY THAT FOCUSING ON, LIKE CHRIS BISHOP DID POINTING TO HOUSING AND EDUCATION... IS THE WAY WHICH NATIONAL CAN SAY THAT THEY ARE ADDRESSING THAT INEQUITY AND INEQUALITY. CHRIS BISHOP HAD A FOCUS ON LONG-TERM THINGS. NOT EXCLUSIVELY, BUT HE TALKED ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE— WHATEVER IT IS, THE BESTSTART PROGRAMME... IT'S NOT THE BESTSTART, BUT WHATEVER IT IS. HE TALKED ABOUT THE NEED TO GET EDUCATION FIXED AND HOUSING FIXED AND HOW THOSE THINGS WOULD FLOW ON. THOSE ARE LONG-TERM AMBITIONS AND THEY ARE LONG-TERM FIXES FOR EVERYBODY. REBECCA PUSHED BACK ON THAT PRETTY HARSH. SHE ASKED FOR THE GRAND PLAN. BUT SHE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO SAY SOMETHING SIMPLISTIC. THAT'S THE TRAP. SHE WANTED A SIMPLE SOLUTION THAT WASN'T SIMPLISTIC. THE NATIONAL PARTY HAS TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO FALL INTO THAT TRAP. THEY ARE THE OPPOSITION, AND PEOPLE AREN'T HOLDING THEM TO ACCOUNT FOR THE EXISTING SITUATION. FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE ONLY, THEY HAVE TO SEEM LIKE A GOVERNMENT IN WAITING, AND PEOPLE WILL GIVE THEM A CHANCE BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE BETTER THAN THE CURRENT LOT. THEY DIDN'T ADDRESS THE FACT THAT NATIONAL HELPED CAUSE THE HOUSING PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY HAD SUCH OPEN IMMIGRATION POLICIES. WHEN KEY WAS IN POWER, THEY HAD HUGE IMMIGRATION POLICIES THAT ALLOWED MORE MIGRANTS IN, WHICH IS GREAT FOR ECONOMY AND BUSINESS, BUT WAS NOT GREAT FOR HOUSING, AND WE DIDN'T FIX THE HOUSING ISSUES. WE STILL HAVEN'T FIXED THEM PROPERLY YET. THE FACT THAT HE SAID TODAY, 'WELL, WE'RE ALL ABOUT HOUSING' — YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY SAY THAT YOU STUFFED IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. NO POLITICAL PARTY SAYS, 'WE REALLY GOT THAT WRONG. SORRY ABOUT THAT.' AGAIN, I AM WAITING FOR SOMETHING FROM NATIONAL TO GIVE US SOMETHING SUBSTANTIVE. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SIMPLISTIC AT ALL, BUT THERE IS NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE FROM THEM YET. THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED BY HAVING A SHOT AT GANGS AND SAYING THAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEMS OF LAW AND ORDER IN AOTEAROA. NO WAY. NO WAY. OR HAVING A SHOT AT HEALTH INEQUITIES FOR MAORI, RIGHT? WE HAD THIS HUGE DEBATE EARLIER THIS WEEK AROUND THE NEW HEALTH INEQUITY TOOL THAT'S BEING USED. ETHNICITY IS JUST ONE OF THE MARKERS. IT'S ONE OF FIVE. THERE WAS A FOCUS ON... SO LUXON TALKED ABOUT, 'OH, MAORI AND PASIFIKA SHOULDN'T BE ON THIS' AND SO DID SHANE RETI, WHICH IS PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T SHOW US THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS HUGE INEQUITIES FOR MAORI AND PASIFIKA IN OUR HEALTH SYSTEM. ARE THEY MAKING A PUSH INTO THAT AREA NOW? BECAUSE THEY ARE PUTTING CANDIDATES INTO THE MAORI ELECTORATES. THEY SHOULD. THEY ABSOLUTELY NEED TO SPEAK TO MAORI. ONE WAY TO SPEAK TO MAORI, AND NO ONE IS DOING IT, IS ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE EAST COAST AND HAWKE'S BAY. THEY ARE BEING SMASHED BY THE FLOODS, AND THEY KEEP BEING SMASHED BY THE CLIMATE CRISIS. A GOOD WAY IS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEED AND TALK TO THEM AND BRING SOME REALLY GOOD POLICY AROUND HOW WE WILL HELP THOSE COMMUNITIES. TE URUROA, I CAN SEE YOU ARE ITCHING TO JUMP IN THERE. SHOULD THEY BE STANDING IN MAORI SEATS? THEY WERE TALKING PREVIOUSLY ABOUT ABOLISHING THEM, AND NOW THEY ARE STANDING IN THEM. THAT IS WHAT POLITICAL LEVERAGE — BOTH WAYS — HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE IN GOVERNMENT. YOU WANT TO APPEASE TO THE BIG MAJORITY. THE THING ABOUT THE TIME WHEN MAORI PARTY WAS IN PARLIAMENT WITH THE NATIONAL PARTY AND JOHN KEY AND BILL ENGLISH, YOU COULD SAY THEY NEEDED OUR VOTES TO MAINTAIN POWER. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU COULD SAY THEY WERE AHEAD OF THEIR TIME RECOGNISING THAT MAORI COULD PROVIDE SERIOUS SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF THESE ISSUES. THAT'S WHERE WHANAU ORA CAME FROM. WE ARE SEEING AN INCREASINGLY YOUNGER COHORT OF MAORI VOTERS. LIAM, NATIONAL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY THERE, DON'T THEY? FIRST OF ALL, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THOSE ELECTORATES. THEY ARE JUST NOT. THEN WHAT'S THE POINT? THE POINT IS— THERE'S TWO. FIRST OF ALL, IT IS RESPECTFUL. YOU'RE A NATIONAL PARTY, YOU ARE A PARTY THAT IS MEANT TO SPEAK TO THE WHOLE OF THE COUNTRY, AND IF YOU DELIBERATELY DON'T STAND CANDIDATES IN SEATS, IT IS LIKE WRITING THEM OFF. IT'S JUST WRONG. THE SECOND POINT IS FROM A STRATEGIC ELECTORAL POINT OF VIEW, YOU ARE GOING TO PULL ACROSS SOME PARTY VOTES. THIRDLY, THE NATIONAL PARTY IN THEORY IS COMMITTED TO ABOLISHING THOSE SEATS BUT IN THE SAME WAY THAT LABOUR IS THEORETICALLY COMMITTED TO STATE SOCIALISM. IT'S A THEORETICAL COMMITMENT ONLY. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE MAORI ELECTORATES — NOT IN THE LAST ONE BUT THE PREVIOUS ELECTION — NEW ZEALAND FIRST AND NATIONAL PULLED MORE PARTY VOTES EVEN THOUGH THEY DIDN'T STAND ANYONE THAN THE GREENS WHO DID STAND PEOPLE. DEMOCRATICALLY, ALL PARTIES SHOULD STAND. ACT SHOULD BE PUTTING PEOPLE INTO THOSE MAORI SEATS THERE. I HAVE TO LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR KORERO THIS MORNING, LIAM, CARMEN AND TE URUROA. TENA KOE. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATOU. STAY WITH US. WE'LL BE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. WELCOME BACK. WELL, WITH FALLOUT FROM THE MICHAEL WOOD SAGA COMBINED WITH DAVID SEYMOUR'S PARLIAMENTARY TE REO AND MARAMA DAVIDSON'S EJECTION BY THE SPEAKER, IT'S BEEN AN ACTION-PACKED WEEK IN THE DEBATING CHAMBER. HERE'S FINN HOGAN WITH THE WEEK THAT WAS IN WELLINGTON. WELL, BEFORE WE GOT THE LATEST MICHAEL WOOD DEBACLE, THIS WAS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST TRAIN WRECK IN WELLINGTON. HE MAORI AHAU MO NGA KAUPAPA HAUORA. IS THAT A SUPPLEMENTARY QUESTION OR...? YES, MR SPEAKER. POINT OF ORDER. POINT OF ORDER, RAWIRI WAITITI. I DIDN'T HEAR A QUESTION IN THAT SUPPLEMENTARY. (LAUGHTER) NO, NEITHER DID I. THAT'S WHY I ASKED. YES, DAVID SEYMOUR'S ATTEMPT AT ASKING A QUESTION IN TE REO MAORI DIDN'T EXACTLY LIGHT UP THE CHAMBER. HE MAORI HOKI AHAU, ENGARI EHARA TERA I TE PATAI. (LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE) ARE THERE ANY MORE SUPPLEMENTARY QUESTIONS? BUT MARAMA DAVIDSON'S CRITICISM OF RACIAL RHETORIC IN THE HOUSE WAS NO LAUGHING MATTER FOR THE SPEAKER. ...AMONGST THE NEW ZEALAND PUBLIC, AND I ASK YOU, MR SPEAKER— ORDER! YOU WILL STAND, WITHDRAW AND APOLOGISE. I STAND, WITHDRAW AND APOLOGISE. NO, DO IT PROPERLY. POINT OF ORDER. POINT OF ORDER. NO. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. YOU WILL LEAVE THE CHAMBER. NOW WITH THE ELECTION ONLY A MATTER OF MONTHS AWAY, SOME VOTERS ARE PROBABLY ALREADY THINKING THAT... THIS IS A DISGRACE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS HOUSE, MADAM SPEAKER. ...BUT MY MONEY'S ON PLENTY MORE DRAMA TO COME. THAT'S ALL FROM US UNTIL NEXT WEEKEND. NGA MIHI NUI. TENA TATOU KATOA. THANKS FOR TUNING IN. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND SAM BAKER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 HE MEA TONA KITE HOTAKA NEI NA TE PUBLIC INTEREST JOURNALISM FUND.